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Lou Dobbs This Week
What Does Minnesota Bridge Collapse Say of U.S. Infrastructure?; U.S. Immigration & Refugee Policy Inconsistent?
Aired August 05, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, GUEST HOST: Tonight, new questions about the surge in Iraq. Is the strategy already a political failure?
And a provocative new book says liberal elites are undermining this country. The author of that book, Phil Kent, is among our guests.
All that, much more straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK -- news, debate and opinion -- for Sunday, August 5. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody. A blunt, new assessment of the progress of the surge in Iraq -- Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the U.S. officials underestimated the Iraqi government's difficultes over passing political reforms. His comments came after the biggest Sunni bloc in the Iraqi government said it's leaving the coalition.
Meanwhile, the nominee to be Joint Chiefs chairman, Admiral Mike Mullen, said political reconciliation is the key to success in Iraq. Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The man nominated to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff made clear he doesn't think more U.S. troops are the answer to Iraq's problems. Admiral Michael Mullen says political progress by the Iraqis is a must.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADM. MICHAEL MULLEN, NOMINEE FOR JCS CHMN: Barring that, no amount of troops in no amount of time will make much of a difference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: It was exactly what the senators wanted to hear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D) MICHIGAN: As you put it, no amount of troops can solve their political problems. It's up to them.
MULLEN: Over time, no, sir. I don't believe that they can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: But Iraqi lawmakers adjourned for a recess without progress on deBaathification, oil revenue sharing and constitutional reform. Admiral Mullen did not paint a rosy picture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MULLEN: I still maintain that, if we aren't making progress in that realm, the prospects for movement in a positive direction are not very good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: On the security side, there is some improvement. In July, slightly more than 70 U.S. troops died, the lowest level this year. Commanders are unlikely to keep the surge in place beyond next spring. They don't have the troops to keep it going.
Mullen also cautioned, some number of troops could remain in Iraq for years to come, but only if the Iraqis step up to the political plate.
But it was General James Cartwright, nominated as vice chairman, who wondered what will the U.S. troops think years from now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JAMES CARTCRIWGHT, NOMINEE FOR JCS VICE CHMN: There comes a point at which they're going to look at that and say, how much longer and for what price, if progress isn't seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Admiral Mullen stuck to his bottom line during the three- hour hearing. Without political progress in Iraq, he's not ready to say the U.S. is winning the war.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: For more on the military and political challenges ahead in Iraq, I'm joined by our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, our White House correspondent, Elaine Quijano and our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider. Thanks for being with us.
Barbara, let me start with you, because you have just reported on Defense Secretary Robert Gates' trip. He's saying that we underestimated the difficulties facing the Iraqi government. Let me read a statement.
"The kinds of legislation that they're talking about will establish the framework of Iraq for the future, so it's almost like our constitutional convention... And the difficulty coming to grips with these, we may all have underestimated six or eight months ago."
Now, does this represent a shift in the perspective of Secretary Gates? Barbara, you're there at the Pentagon every day. What's your view?
STARR: You know, Kitty, Secretary Gates has been sober-minded about all of this for months now. He's been saying, no happy talk on his watch, and that's what he's talking about right now. Political progress is not happening in Iraq. The whole point of the surge was to put enough troops in there to get security to buy time for political progress and if that's not happening, what is the point of the surge?
PILGRIM: You know, Barbara, Admiral Mike Mullen -- he's the nominee for the position of chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- he said the surge is not the answer, it's a political situation. It's interesting when you have a military man saying something like that. Where does that structure the debate on Capitol Hill, when you have a military assessment saying it's a political answer?
STARR: Well, you know, Mullen is underscoring the very same thing. Troops aren't the answer. You can't put enough troops in there, if you're not going to have political progress by the Iraqis. So this may eventually, in the months ahead, bolster the argument of a lot of the administration's opponents on Capitol Hill. Why keep the troops there if the Iraqis aren't going to step up to the plate on the political side?
PILGRIM: And yet, there is military progress, is there not?
STARR: There is, especially, quite to everyone's continuing surprise, in al Anbar province out in the west, where they are working with the Sunni sheikhs, and they are getting progress on the local level. But again, the challenge is, if they cannot make that progress happen in the federal national government, if you will, in Baghdad, what good is the progress on the local level? Why are the troops really there, then?
PILGRIM: Let me turn to Elaine Quijano and ask her, has Admiral Mullen's assessment bolstered criticism among members of Congress who disagree with the president's strategy, Elaine?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Clearly, the White House, Kitty, understands full well that this lack of progress that Barbara was talking about in Baghdad presents a problem for them, because she's absolutely right -- when the president announced this surge, the whole point was to give the leaders of the Iraqi government political breathing space, they called it. And now what are they doing with that breathing space? They are taking an August recess. We saw this split within members of the Iraqi government.
So instead the White House has shifted -- instead of talking about progress at the top, they're doing exactly what Barbara mentioned, talking about progress at the bottom -- specifically the al Anbar province, talking about how previously groups that had not been on the U.S.' side are now turning against al Qaeda and joining forces with the U.S.
But the big question is, will that be enough for lawmaker come September? They have made clear, including members of the president's own party, they see political reconciliation as an absolute must in order to continue supporting the president's surge strategy. So we'll have to wait and see how things play out, but even the vice president, asked about the parliament taking August off, could only say, well, at least it's not two months off, it's only one month off. They were originally planning for two months, but they're only taking one month now. Not exactly a resounding or ringing endorsement.
PILGRIM: It certainly isn't. We all wait for the September report from General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker.
Meanwhile, the debate continues over whether troops should be withdrawn. Let's listen to something that presidential candidate Senator Hillary Clinton had to say about this, in the context of the political arena.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D) NEW YORK, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must not redeploy out of Iraq with the same combination of arrogance and incompetence with which the Bush administration exhibited deploying into Iraq. We did not have a smart plan to go in, but we will do everything in our power to be sure we have a smart plan to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Bill, this, of course, is structured for campaign rhetoric, but what's your assessment of that thought, Bill?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's structured for campaign rhetoric, really, in the general election. A lot of people think she's likely to be the Democratic nominee. She's been the front runner in the polls. And she's inoculating herself against the Republican campaign. The Republicans are going to argue -- in fact, they already are arguing -- if we get out of Iraq too quickly, it will increase the danger, the threat from terrorism, to the United States because they'll have a base there. And she's saying, we're going have a smart plan for withdrawal, we're not just going get out of Iraq so fast that it will increase the danger to this country. We're going to do it in a careful and smart way. So she's inoculating herself against what she anticipates will be Republican criticism.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much. Barbara Starr, Elaine Quijano, Bill Schneider -- the very best. Thank you.
Still to come, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota says a bridge in America should not just fall down. She's among our guests.
Also, another massive recall of dangerous, contaminated toys from Communist China. We'll have the details on that.
Also new congressional demands for justice for imprisoned Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Compean.
We'll have all that and more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The federal government took action on imports from communist China this week. Poultry from China is currently banned in the United States, but the U.S. Department of Agriculture is pushing ahead on a plan to open the door to massive imports of chicken from China.
And China's lack of safety standards were an issue again this week. More than a million toys were recalled because they contained lead paint.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM (voice-over): Lead poisoning in young children can lower IQ, affect learning ability, and damage the liver and kidneys. But there are no immediate symptoms, so parents wouldn't notice if their child was ingesting lead from a toy.
DR. JAMES ROBERTS, MEDICAL UNIV. OF SOUTH CAROLINA: Lead poisoning often starts without symptoms at all. They can be a normal child running around playing, but have an elevated blood-lead level, and you would never know it without testing them.
PILGRIM: Fisher-Price found lead paint on nearly a million Big Bird, Elmo, Dora and Diego figures made in China between April and July of this year and imported into the United States.
The Consumer Product Safety Commission says it's a particularly bad case. The lead was in the yellow paint surface coating the toys, a blatant disregard of the ban on lead paint in children's toys.
The Consumer Product Safety Commission, manned with 100 field inspectors, is struggling against rampant Chinese violations of safety standards; 80 percent of all toys in the U.S. now come from China. And, from October last year, of the 306 recalls of products, 100 percent of recalled toys were made in China.
JOAN LAWRENCE, TOY INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION: There are a couple of bills being talked about in Congress that would enhance the safety system, and we would be in favor of those.
PILGRIM: While there is a ban on lead paint, there is no ban on lead content in children's jewelry. Since 2004, the Consumer Product Safety Commission has recalled 165 million pieces of jewelry with lead that could leak out.
LORI WALLACH, PUBLIC CITIZEN: These kinds of problems, where you have really unsafe imported products flooding into our homes, is going to continue until we change the trade rules.
PILGRIM: The CPSC wants a total ban on lead in children's jewelry by 2008. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The Chinese, however, are fighting that lead ban, saying it's not necessary to limit lead content in children's jewelry. It's only dangerous if the lead seeps out.
The Bush administration is opposing congressional efforts to put pressure on communist China over its so-called free trade and currency policies. Now those policies have cost hundreds of thousands of Americans their jobs.
As Lisa Sylvester reports, this is an issue being closely watched by American manufacturers trying to sell their products to China.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Billings, Montana, at the PAYS auction yard, ranchers bid on cattle. Here, beef is the way of life. But that could be jeopardized by actions taking place thousands of miles away. Like other U.S. industries, cattle producers are feeling the heat from China.
BILL BULLARD, R-CALF USA: Because their currency is devalued, China can export that beef for far less than what we can afford to produce it. And as a result it gives the Chinese cattle industry a tremendous advantage over U.S. cattle producers.
SYLVESTER: In addition to currency manipulation, China has been subsidizing its cattle farmers, hoping to become a player on the world market. The U.S. Treasury Department has been gently nudging China to level the trade field.
But patience is wearing thin on Capitol Hill.
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: It's a little bit like the government saying, yes, American workers and businesses are being cheated, but we don't yet have the backbone to actually do what it takes to make it stop.
SYLVESTER: The Senate Banking Committee passed a bill Wednesday that would make it easier to target countries that manipulate their currency and seek remedies. A bill in the House calls for countervailing duties.
Free trade advocates, fearing congressional action, are running ads in national newspapers as part of a lobbying campaign. They warn the anti-China measures could tip the United States into a depression.
DICK ARMEY, FORMER REPUBLICAN HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: It's one thing to argue the argument with undergraduates who have been misguided, but quite another to have to argue this argument with people who seek the mature, adult responsibilities of being a member of the United States Senate.
SYLVESTER: But the bill's proponents say when China hands out subsidies and manipulates its currency, that's not free trade, just the opposite. The proposed offsets are designed to help U.S. workers, producers and farmers correct the imbalance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: A senate staffer said that unlike in the past months where there has been a lot of bluster and talk, this time, the train is moving. Congress is intent on pushing a bill to address this issue that could end up on the president's desk -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester.
Well, coming up, are we spending enough to guarantee the safety of America's infrastructure? We'll take a look at the numbers.
Also, a leading congressional supporter of imprisoned Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean leads a House investigation into their case. We'll have the details of that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Congress is continuing its investigation into the prosecution of two former Border Patrol agents. Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean are serving lengthy prison terms. They were convicted of shooting an illegal alien drug smuggler, who was given immunity in exchange for his testimony against the two men.
Now, this week a House subcommittee heard testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT": Congressman Dana Rohrabacher is the ranking member of the Foreign Affairs Subcommittee investigating the miscarriage of justice in the case of former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean. The Republican congressman from California has also called for the resignation of U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton for not testifying today in a case he says "stinks to high heaven." Dana Rohrabacher is here with us.
Good to have you with us, Congressman.
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: Thank you.
DOBBS: The Foreign Affairs Subcommittee investigation into the role of the Mexican government, were there any surprises to you at all?
ROHRABACHER: Well, the main surprise, I guess, came from the chairman of the subcommittee itself. In fact, Chairman Delahunt announced that he is calling on President Bush to commute the sentences of these two Border Patrol agents. And that happened with several other members today as the hearing progressed.
He also announced that Chairman Conyers will be holding hearings of the Judiciary Committee. And Mr. Sutton wouldn't come to our hearing, and he's able to go on TV around the country, but I don't think he can duck the Judiciary Committee. DOBBS: Well, Congressman Rohrabacher, the U.S. attorney, Johnny Sutton, said that -- his office released a statement saying that the Department of Justice determined there was no basis for him to testify because the focus of the investigation is -- was into contacts with Mexico, the role of the Mexico government.
And U.S. Attorney Sutton says clearly, just absolutely unequivocally, that he had, and his office had no contacts whatsoever with the Mexican government.
ROHRABACHER: Well, let me just note this.
DOBBS: Sure.
ROHRABACHER: Our jurisdiction on this subcommittee also goes to the issuance of official government passes, like the one that the U.S. Attorney's Office and the Department of Homeland Security gave to the drug dealer in this case. They gave them free border transit passes. And that is to a drug dealer after he had been fingered for a second drug deal. And that is part of our jurisdiction and Sutton knows it.
DOBBS: The Department of Homeland Security refused to put forward its inspector general, Mr. Skinner, to testify.
ROHRABACHER: Yes.
DOBBS: And, of course, they have direct responsibility for any contact that would have occurred since they were the lead investigative agency.
ROHRABACHER: It's their job to come to Congress and explain things to us and vote Johnny Sutton for the U.S. attorney. And both the Department of Homeland Security -- they both decided not to put themselves under oath.
So if you hear them now making statements publicly, how can you believe them, because they're not willing to go under oath and say the same thing?
DOBBS: It is -- there is a great deal, obviously, that is troubling about the Ramos and Compean case. But amongst the most perplexing has been the refusal of this administration, a Republican administration, you, as a Republican, a Republican president, to act almost, if I may say, Soviet in its response to inquiries from party members and the news media and the public about what is transparently and upon -- once upon, you know, achieving focus, a very difficult case to explain in terms of the motivation of the prosecutors, the Department of Homeland Security, and even officials of the U.S. Border Patrol.
ROHRABACHER: Well, I hate to say this, but there is a pattern of arrogance in this administration in dealing with Congress and dealing with the public's right to know some of these fundamental issues. And I see it and it's demonstrated by this case.
And here the president, when we begged and pleaded with him to step in and give -- even after these guys have been beaten up and imprisoned, and we were given the answer, oh, no, it's a long, arduous process they have to go through to get any commutation or any type of a pardon.
Yet, a member of the president's clique in the White House, Scooter Libby -- and might I add I supported that commutation, but then he gets it in a nanosecond. Little guys get squashed. Members of the clique get off -- you know, get out of jail free.
DOBBS: Yes. And as you pointed out, it is a sorry thing, in my opinion. And I would say on any other basis, for the president of the United States to respond, that his faith in the prosecution of this case and the outcome of that prosecution because, as he put it, Johnny Sutton is a friend of his.
ROHRABACHER: That's it.
DOBBS: It's troubling, at the very least. It is reassuring that you and your colleagues in Congress are doing so much to focus on the answers -- achieving some semblance, at least, of answers at this early stage. We know you will continue.
ROHRABACHER: Yes, sir.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.
ROHRABACHER: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: You've been outstanding on this issue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The federal government still isn't protecting our border with Mexico. So what progress has been made on the border fence that the president promised last year? Well, that depends on who you talk to. Republican congressman and presidential candidate Duncan Hunter says only 15 miles of single-layered fence has been built since the Secure Fence Act was signed late last year.
The act calls for 700 miles of double-layered fence. The Department of Homeland Security would only say that 88 miles of fence has been built over the last two years and it's on track to build another 150 miles of it by the end of September.
Well, coming up our nation's infrastructure is falling apart. Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota is our guest.
Also, Senator John McCain, one of the most outspoken supporters of illegal alien amnesty, maybe shifting his opinion on this issue.
And are liberal elites destroying this country? Well, Phil Kent, author of a provocative new book, "Foundations of Betrayal," will join us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Rick Sanchez here at the "CNN NEWSROOM" with a look at what's happening right "Now in the News." Divers searching for victims of the Minneapolis bridge collapse are going to continue into the night unless thunderstorms force them out. They're getting periodic breaks leaving the water as crews remove large jagged debris. Now, President Bush got a look at the disaster scene today. And he talked to rescue workers as well.
California police say there are new developments in the case of a reporter's death there. A 19-year-old handyman allegedly has confessed to killing this man, Oakland Post editor Chauncey Bailey. Police say that the man worked at a Muslim bakery that Bailey was investigating at the time. He was allegedly upset over some of Bailey's stories.
House lawmakers are expected to vote later tonight on a bill revamping the government's spying program. The Senate passed its own version of the measure last night. The bill expands the government's eavesdropping power under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
NASA's newest bid to explore the red planet is hurdling through space. That would be Mars. An unmanned rocket carrying the new Mars Lander in fact lifted off from Cape Canaveral, Florida, today. The lander should reach Mars next May. Its mission is to determine if conditions are favorable for life to exist now or in the past on the red planet.
An autopsy is expected tomorrow or Monday on the caretaker found dead at an actor's house. Ving Rhames' house. He had apparently been mauled by two of -- it's Rhames, isn't it? Yes, Rhames' four dogs. But detectives say it's too early to know if the dogs caused the death or he had a heart attack as the dogs jumped on top of him.
All right. We're going to bring you a story tonight that's special. I go under a bridge with an engineer -- structural engineer expert from Georgia Tech University, one of the finest. This guy knows bridges. He knows corrosion and he also knows metal fatigue. And he explains exactly how it works and what might have brought the bridge down in Minneapolis in detail.
Also, we'll bring you the very latest here on everything else going on. As news breaks, we'll break in and bring it to you. Right now let's back to Lou, catch you up.
PILGRIM: The tragedy in Minnesota raises questions not only about the state of our infrastructure, but what we are doing to expand and improve that infrastructure. We are using our roads, bridges, and tunnels more and spending less on them. The American Society of Civil Engineers says we need to spend $1.6 trillion on our infrastructure, yet we are only spending 20 percent of that amount.
Most of that money is state and local dollars going toward repair and repaving, not expanding new infrastructure. Well, Senator Amy Klobuchar flew to Minneapolis as soon as she heard about the bridge disaster. As we've been reporting here, Senator Amy Klobuchar has just returned from her home state of Minnesota, where she went to the scene of this disaster and witnessed much of the recovery effort and, of course, the damage from the collapse of this bridge. Joining us now from Washington -- Senator.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: I have to tell you, this is just a massive scene. This bridge is only eight blocks from my house in Minneapolis. And I've have gone there over that bridge for days and days with my family.
And to think of those drivers, I just keep thinking of people like me, moms driving with kids in the back seat and suddenly this massive eight lane highway buckles under you. And so, as you can imagine, they're trying to be very careful about this recovery work so no one gets hurt. I mean, you've seen the scenes of these divers going in.
And one of the things I'm most proud about is we planned, I was the former prosecutor there, for these disasters, never thinking they would happen. But here you have the Minneapolis police, sheriff, they worked together.
DOBBS: Well, the world is -- we look at these pictures of this tragedy, that bridge that collapsed and this security videotape of the actual collapse itself, Senator, it's clear now that there had been significant warnings about the deficiencies of this bridge.
Were you aware that there was so much concern and that this bridge was certainly something to be very -- to be focused on in terms of repair and maintenance?
KLOBUCHAR: No, Lou, because what I've learned from the secretary of transportation and others, there's 70,000, 80,000 bridges across the country that are classified that way, that are on lists. It doesn't mean they have to be closed down right away.
I will say this, Lou. We do not know what caused this accident yet.
DOBBS: Right.
KLOBUCHAR: We don't know what happened. But I tell you this, a bridge in the middle of America just shouldn't fall into the river. So that's why we want a prompt investigation.
DOBBS: Right.
KLOBUCHAR: And I think it will help us because we -- it's a reminder that we have to invest in our long-term infrastructure, as well as have that short-term emergency relief in place.
DOBBS: You know, Senator, you raise a very important point. One of the series of reports that this broadcast has been covering now for years is our crumbling infrastructure and the more than a trillion dollars required in investment to restore it to acceptable levels. That includes, of course, bridges and tunnels, highways, all across this country.
Do you believe there is the appetite and understanding, both in the United States Senate and in the House of Representatives, the White House itself, and, frankly, corporate America, to understand the need to invest in this country rather than to dissipate this country's wealth across a global economic system that is punishing more than rewarding Americans these days?
KLOBUCHAR: You know, I hope that there is, because I believe that priorities in our country have been out of whack the last few years. You know, we've spent, what, almost $500 billion in Iraq. I opposed that war from the beginning. I think that we have to put more into our own homeland security and into our own infrastructure.
You know, when those people were left stranded on that roof in New Orleans, it was really a mirror -- a reflection of the leadership of this country. And I think there have been some improvements. We just passed the homeland security bill out of the Senate. But, obviously, we need to do more and look at the infrastructure in this country and figure out what needs to be done.
We've taken this for granted for too long and now it's beginning to catch up.
DOBBS: Right.
KLOBUCHAR: But, again, I stress, we do not know what caused this accident. I know as a prosecutor we don't want to leap to the solutions when you don't yet know what the problem is.
DOBBS: You have also moved with your colleague, Norm Coleman -- Senator Norm Coleman, looking for response in support in the amount of a quarter of a billion dollars in federal funding to repair the bridge and to begin recovering from this disaster.
What has been the response of your colleagues in the Senate, from the White House?
KLOBUCHAR: Very positive. What we're trying to do here is to -- along with Congressman Oberstar in the House and Keith Ellison, the congressman for this district, is to get the cap waived so at least as we go forward, we'll have the funds we need to rebuild this massive bridge.
I've got to tell you, we're having -- next August we have the entire Republican National Convention in Minnesota, along with our state fair, which is the second-biggest in the country, at the same time. This is the major artery for traffic in the Twin Cities. And we're hoping that we can work on this bridge promptly.
The investigation is going to take a while. But that can go on while the bridge is being rebuilt. We have a lot of ingenuity in our state. It's an incredibly hardworking place. And we're committed to rebuilding this bridge and getting to the bottom of this.
DOBBS: Well, that ingenuity and that character, as you well know, Senator, is being severely tested now. And we wish you and the people of Minneapolis all the very best of luck.
KLOBUCHAR: Well, thank you.
DOBBS: Thank you very much for being with us.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you for having me on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Up next, are the country's wealthy liberal elite undermining America? Our next guest says yes. Author Phil Kent joins me.
Also, Democratic presidential candidates Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama battle over terrorism policy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Special interest groups and lobbyists play a powerful role in our politics and society. Now some liberal charities are now being accused of acting against the national interest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: The author of a provocative new book says wealthy liberal elites are destroying this country through their power -- their control of powerful tax-exempt foundations. Phil Kent, author of the book, "Foundations of Betrayal: How the Liberal Super-Rich Undermine America." Phil Kent joins me now.
Phil, good to have you here.
PHIL KENT, AUTHOR, "FOUNDATIONS OF BETRAYAL": Thanks, Lou. Good to be here.
DOBBS: This is a subject that I find fascinating and most people are not aware of, the role of foundations, the tax-exempts, in influencing policy and the government.
KENT: Absolutely. You've got about 16,000 of these private tax- exempt foundations. You've got $500 billion in assets. And a lot of this, Lou, they're not just benign liberal think tanks that are for big taxes and big government. They are out there actively with an agenda, under the guise of charity, to change America.
DOBBS: Under the guise of charity, set up under the tax code 503, 504.
KENT: Right.
DOBBS: I mean, we've got a number of them. But the idea that these foundations can -- who are the worst offenders, in your opinion?
KENT: In my book, I say the Ford Foundation is the most radical, un-American foundation. I'll explain that in a minute. And number two and trying harder is George Soros and his Open Society Institute, absolutely trying to undermine America at every turn.
DOBBS: How so? How so?
KENT: A couple of quick examples. Both of them give to these radical Islamic charities. Ford Foundation, the Al-Mezan Center for Human Rights, which supports suicide bombers over in Palestine. That's a recipient of Ford largesse. The same with Soros, funding radical Muslims.
DOBBS: Well, the idea that this is going on -- there are also a lot of conservative foundations out there and a lot of super-rich conservatives. Why didn't you mess with them?
KENT: You know, it's a good question, but they're not undermining America. They're out there doing their policy discussions, as are a lot of the liberal foundations.
These are the most radical, and as the subtitle of my new book indicates, these are the ones that are undermining America, whether it's through a radical open borders agenda, whether it's through a radical green Al Gore type agenda or...
DOBBS: How about the ACLU? We've been having a lot of fun here lately with them on a number of issues. What -- how about them? They're supported by a lot of these foundations.
KENT: They absolutely are. They're a favorite of all of these foundations, Ford, Rockefeller, Tides.
DOBBS: Right. We appreciate you being with us, Phil Kent. The book is "The Foundations of Betrayal." Good luck with it, Phil. Thank you. Fascinating reading, a fascinating subject. Come back. We'll talk more.
KENT: Appreciate you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Special interest groups in this country came together to influence the Senate on its so-called grand compromise on immigration legislation. That legislation would have given amnesty to most of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in this country.
But as Christine Romans now reports, the United States currently has no clear policy on who receives amnesty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: American asylum, refugee and immigration policy is a patchwork of different rules for different nationalities. This court ruling upholds special exceptions for illegal aliens from El Salvador. A California judge ruling the government violated immigration detention standards and found protections given Salvadorans in 1988 during its civil war still stand.
Special conditions for different nationalities is a hallmark of American policy.
JAIME SUCHLICKI, UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI: The immigration policy is fragmented and is inconsistent. It depends on which administration and it depends on which constituency in the United States has a lot of power and a lot of voting power.
ROMANS: Migrants from Cuba are allowed to stay in the country under the so-called "wet foot, dry foot" policy, so long as they set foot on dry ground. Caught by the Coast Guard on a boat, and they are sent back. It's one reason why some Cubans are crossing the border with Mexico to gain immediate lawful enjoy.
Yet other Central Americans caught crossing the border are repatriated.
GARY GERSTLE, VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Complexity is inevitable. I think there are certain crises and disasters in the world that the United States is obligated to respond to more than others.
ROMANS: For some nationalities, there is temporary protected status. It means they can work in the U.S. temporarily until conditions improve in their home country. Temporary status for 78,000 Hondurans and 4,000 Nicaraguans who have been here for years has been extended another 18 months. Two hundred thirty-five thousand people from El Salvador are protected from deportation under the same program.
Christine Romans, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Still ahead, the cost of the war in Iraq is soaring. Some estimate it could eventually cost as much as $2 trillion.
And presidential adviser Karl Rove is at the center of the battle over executive privilege between the White House and Congress. Three of the best political minds join me for those stories and more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama this week outlined his strategy to defeat terrorism. In his speech, the senator said he might order U.S. troops to fight terrorists in Pakistan. Now the tough talk comes amid rising criticism from Senator Hillary Clinton and other Democratic candidates of Senator Obama's foreign policy expertise.
Candy Crowley has or report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a muscular speech on the war against terrorism, presidential candidate Barack Obama promised U.S.-led assaults into Pakistan if necessary.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will.
CROWLEY: In the rarest of moments, this puts Obama basically in sync with the Bush administration and Hillary Clinton, interviewed on Urban Radio.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... if we had actionable intelligence that Osama bin Laden or other high-value targets were in Pakistan, I would ensure that they were targeted and killed or captured.
CROWLEY: Obama's speech was aimed at establishing tough-on- terrorism credentials, after a couple of rocky debate answers which critics found weak and meandering.
It also follows a week in which he and Clinton had a nasty little clash over his statement that, as president, he would meet with leaders of nations like Iran, Cuba and North Korea. Clinton called Obama naive and irresponsible, saying there should be lower-level diplomacy first, to be avoid being used for propaganda.
No names mentioned today, but Obama returned to the subject.
OBAMA: It's time to turn the page on Washington's conventional wisdom that agreement must be reached before you meet, that talking to other countries is some kind of reward and that presidents can only meet with people who will tell them what they want to hear.
CROWLEY: The Obama campaign declined to call anything in the speech an attack on Clinton. Obviously, said an aide, there are some differences here. This would include his continued discussion on congressional authorization of the war in Iraq, a vote in which Clinton was among the ayes.
OBAMA: With that vote, Congress became co-author of a catastrophic war.
CROWLEY: Obama's speech outlined a series of five diplomatic and military steps to redirect the war on terror, including taking the fight out of Iraq and putting it in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
(on camera): But despite implicit digs at her in Obama's broader speech, the Clinton campaign wouldn't bite. No sense in giving Obama more play when she is sitting on a hefty double-digit lead in the national polls.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, joining me now for more on Senator Obama's speech, on terrorism, and other issues, three of the country's best political analysts and strategists. In New York, we're joined by Errol Louis of The New York Daily News; and Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf; from Washington, Thomas Edsall, political editor at The Huffington Post.
And gentlemen, thanks for being with us. Let's start with the Obama/Clinton back and forth on Pakistan, terrorism, and nuclear -- the use of nuclear weapons. Hank, what do you make of this? This is a very heated and very intense debate between two potential candidates on the same team.
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, it's really simple. He's speaking to one generation of people. She's speaking to another. But the problem is, the generation she's speaking to tend to vote more often than the people he's talking to. He realized what he did. He's trying to correct it and it looks worse. I mean, it looks absolutely worse. The president of the United States cannot appear to be waffling under any circumstances.
PILGRIM: The subtext of this whole thing is the expertise card. And Senator Clinton is definitely taking her points for having been in the game longer. Tom, what do you think of this whole issue?
THOMAS EDSALL, POLITICAL EDITOR, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Hillary Clinton's campaign plays very tough hardball. They catch every little error like the ones that Obama made, not saying something like we're not going to discuss nuclear power, nuclear attacks.
They are very effective in jumping on the smallest mistake. Obama is trying to portray himself as both a tough guy and as someone who is willing to be more experimental. It's a tough act to perform and he's going to make mistakes in this process.
PILGRIM: Mm-hmm. And the revising of comments that, you know, the nuclear issue addressed and said, well, it's a hypothetical, this sort of dancing around the whole press corps shows a certain amount of uncertainty in how to deal with an issue in a very direct way and then, of course, Clinton jumping on to that.
ERROL LOUIS, THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Yes. Unfortunately I think when it comes to something like the nuclear question, it would have been really refreshing if Obama had just stood up and said, I'm moving away from politics as usual. I'm not going to play this game about never talking about inflicting mass death on millions of innocent people. I just don't think it's a good idea.
It would have been great if he had just said that and stuck to it. You know, when you look at it -- the substance of it, not whether or not he waffled, it would not have made any difference. I mean, we have thousands of nuclear warheads in the United States stockpile. It didn't stop the attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. It didn't stop the attack in 2001. It didn't stop the attack on the Cole. It didn't stop the attacks on the embassies in Africa.
The reality is, he was right the first time. And if he had stuck with it, I think he would have moved away from politics as usual. PILGRIM: Let's take a look at some polls. We have some really interesting results. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll, Democratic choice for nominee in 2008, this was taken at the end of July: Clinton, 43 percent; and Obama at 22 percent. So you see a very strong lead for Clinton. What do you make of this, Hank?
SHEINKOPF: She has run a better campaign. She is perceived as being more experienced, tougher, and the Democratic electorate is ready for a woman. That's really what this is about.
PILGRIM: Tom, do you think this will stick?
EDSALL: She has taken a very commanding lead and she has held on to it in a sustained fashion over time. It looks like she's going to be very tough to beat. There is a very interesting Iowa poll that I think we're going to get to next.
PILGRIM: Yes. Let's take a look at that as you bring it up. It's Iowa. Washington Post/ABC News: Obama, 27 percent; Clinton, 28 percent; Edwards, 28 percent. Absolutely neck-and-neck in Iowa. Your point on that, Tom?
EDSALL: Well, first of all, it's terrible for John Edwards. Iowa is a must-win state. He had been running ahead in that state pretty -- on a consistent basis. If he does not win Iowa, he is virtually out of the contest.
What this means is, if this is an accurate poll, that both Hillary and Obama are going to start putting a full-court press on Iowa and you're going to see -- well, one, the poll itself has very interesting detailed findings that bode well for the Clinton campaign over time. She's viewed as a more effective and a stronger leader.
People don't like her as much, but at the moment, Democrats really want to nominate someone who they think can beat a Republican.
PILGRIM: Well, it makes sense. Let's get Errol in here.
LOUIS: As we've learned, it's a state-by-state contest. So a national poll doesn't really tell you much more than very broad sentiment. The fact that Clinton is neck-and-neck with the others in Iowa doesn't bode well for her.
Even more so, though, she's behind. I mean, Barack Obama is ahead in New Hampshire and in South Carolina, and more to the point, right now, at the end of this weekend, starting Monday, we start the six-month countdown to the first ever basically "national primary."
On February 5th, all of the big states, Illinois and California and New York are all going to pick. And so the contest will basically be over in six months. So we're really going into a very intense period. And again, state by state is going to tell the story.
PILGRIM: Yes. It has not been a slow summer, politically. We'll come right back in a minute. Washington has to deal with the damage to the nation's infrastructure, one of the most pressing issues in this country. And we'll discuss that and more with our panel right after this. So stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: We're back with our panel. Errol Louis, Tom Edsall and Hank Sheinkopf. You know, the horrific accident this week has really called the attention of Capitol Hill in terms of what must be done with the infrastructure.
Let's listen to what Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I think we should look at this, a tragedy that occurred, as a wake-up call for us. We have all over the country a crumbling infrastructure, highways, bridges, dams. And we really need to take a hard look at this.
PILGRIM: Now hundreds of billions of dollars, an unanticipated expense. How do you think the Democratic-controlled Congress will handle this?
SHEINKOPF: The best way they can, pork sells. It's time to get more pork into some of those districts. You'll see localities and congressmen talking about putting money into bridges, four-laning places where they can, checking the safety, value, or lack thereof of bridges and other roadways.
They're going to do it because it's smart politics and the tragedy gave them perfect timing going into the 2008 election.
PILGRIM: You know, the American public has to be concerned. Every time anyone drives over a bridge now, they must be thinking about this issue, at least for the next few weeks, this will be a very big political issue, but it also -- it's very real to Americans -- Tom.
EDSALL: No question. The whole idea of the crumbling infrastructure, you know, you have this. You've got sewer systems. You've got all kinds of basic services being provided by very capital- intensive, costly facilities. In a lot of cases, those facilities are very run-down and collapsing or in danger.
This -- I think Hank is right that it works to the advantage of the Democrats who are favored on dealing with domestic issues like this. Where they're likely to run into trouble is how are they going to pay for it, and if they have to start raising taxes to do that.
LOUIS: My guess is that they'll look to the homeland security budget. I mean, here in New York City, a city of islands, divers go and check the base of the bridges every single day to make sure that there are no explosives or mischief being perpetrated by terrorists.
Those same resources could go to make sure that the bridge isn't going to collapse for entirely different reasons. PILGRIM: Let's go to quickly one issue, President Bush invoked executive privilege not to have Karl Rove testify. What do you think as how this is going to play out, Hank?
SHEINKOPF: Democrats now have something more to complain about. But how much further low can you drive the president's numbers? You can't, it doesn't work.
LOUIS: Yes, they have -- I think they've milked their attack on the executive chambers about as far as they can. The rest will just be -- I think at some point it starts to backfire against the Democrats.
PILGRIM: Tom, we're out of time, but you have the last word. Go ahead.
EDSALL: I don't think so. I think there's going to be a fight over executive privilege and if these guys are forced to testify, there could be some interesting information coming out on a lot of different fronts, not just the U.S. attorneys, but a whole host of issues that are sitting there percolating on the back burner.
PILGRIM: So we may be talking about it again next week. Anyway, thank you. Errol Louis, Thomas Edsall, and Hank Sheinkopf, thanks for being with us.
And thank you for joining us. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Enjoy your weekend. Good night from New York. "THIS WEEK AT WAR" starts right now with Tom Foreman.
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