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Lou Dobbs This Week
FDA Pays Millions in Executive Bonuses; Harsh Treatment for Imprisoned Border Patrol Agents; Bush - Lame Duck?
Aired October 21, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the backlash over New York Governor Spitzer's plan to give away driver's licenses to illegal aliens escalating: Spitzer Friday repeated his intention to go through with that plan, no matter what -- overwhelming opposition from the majority of New York citizens.
And Communist China, flush with American cash, on a shopping spree for American assets. The latest target, one of Wall Street's leading financial institutions. You're going to love that. All of that and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK. News, debate, and opinion for Sunday, October 21. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. A power shif in Washington, and a shift favoring the White House. A once lame-duck White House now pushing back against a Democratic congressional leadership. And this administration has so far weathered the attorney general controversy and a great deal more. Can the Bush administration really hold on to some political edge until the end of this term?
Joining me now tp give us the answers, senior political analyst Bill Schneider, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin -- Jeffrey, the author of the new book, "The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court," a New York Times best seller.
Gentlemen, good to have you here.
Let me begin, Bill. This is remarkable, a lame duck president who has basically taken Capitol Hill by storm.
BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right. And forgive my voice, I have a sinus infection. But this administration has proceeded on the assumption of a unitary executive theory. It's a very unusual theory -- not in the Constitution -- the argument that the president is the primary source of power in government, primary over Congress.
The Constitution puts Congress first -- it's in the first article of the Constitution, and the Constitution argues there are three equal branches of government. This administration has never seen things that way and is continuing to press its case in its last year.
DOBBS: Jeffrey, this is peculiar at best, because this president has not succeeded on any of his principal initiatives and certainly in the second term. What in the world is going on here? JEFFREY TOOBIN, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: What's going on I think is that all of these executive power issues the president has successfully tied to his war on terror. That's how he presents them to Congress. So the Congress doesn't particularly have the stomach to fight him on war on terror. They still live in fear of what happened in 2002 when Democrats were accused of being soft on terror and they got wiped out. Max Cleland in Georgia is the one that everyone still talks about. They don't want to fight the president on terror. Even though the president is terribly unpopular, that's the one area that he seems still involate on.
DOBBS: And popular. Jeffrey, as is his way, has couched it in absolutely perfect terms. This president has, according to at least one poll, the lowest approval rating in history, rivalling only that of president Truman. And Congress has absolutely the lowest approval ratings in history.
What is this suggesting to us about both governance on the part of both of these political parties -- one in the White House, one running Congress -- and the upcoming elections, presidential elections?
SCHNEIDER: It says that people are fed up with what's going on in Washington. They don't agree with what President Bush is doing, particularly in Iraq, but on a whole range of issues, including domestic policy, and they don't think the Congress is doing anything to stop him.
What a lot of people don't understand is, the Congress is not designed for efficiency. It's 535 egomaniacs. There's a legislative process that's deliberative. So people expect the Congress to act as a counterweight to the president, when it has a very tough time doing that.
TOOBIN: One thing I have trouble understanding is, do people -- are people mad at Congress because they're not stopping Bush, not stopping the war on terror? I mean, the war in Iraq? Or is it because they think Congress is doing too much?
SCHNEIDER: No.
TOOBIN: It's more the former, isn't it?
SCHNEIDER: The former, it is.
TOOBIN: It's not a pro-Republican tilt, it's an anti-Bush tilt.
SCHNEIDER: People believe they elected Congress to stop the war, Congress hasn't stopped the war. Because Congress just doesn't have the votes to stop the war. It takes more than a majority for Congress to act.
DOBBS: We have been analyzing polls on this broadcast, on this network, and of course throughout the media and this nation, for the past two years. And in documenting that divide between the leadership, the elected officials, and the people of this country, I'm starting to worry that there is a divide as well between the national media and the people in this country, and going to your question, that is, we are making some huge assumptions about what people are thinking.
And poll after poll is coming back and there is suddenly a surprise. We most recently -- and you reported -- the polls showing what happens when Rudolph Giuliani runs against Hillary Clinton in a presidential face-off. Strikingly close, despite all of the death knells for the Republican party and the cheers of ascendancy for the Democratic party. What is that about?
SCHNEIDER: What it's about is, he has a lot of appeal to moderates and independent, because he is not seen as a typical. He's trying to be a typical Republican. He's speaking to the values voters conference this weekend to make an appeal to social conservatives. But people don't seem --
DOBBS: What's she doing?
TOOBIN: And he always talks -- when he talks about security, he talks about 9/11 and al Qaeda. He almost never talks about the war in Iraq. He is not identified, the way John McCain is identified, with support for Iraq, the war, even though their positions are fairly close.
DOBBS: To put it in stark relief, again, as if we needed it, this contest between the White House and Congress and the Republicans and Democrats, senator patrick leahy, head of the judiciary this week, looking at Mukasey's testimony. Let's take a look at what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D) JUDICIARY COMMITTTEE: I am concerned that on a number of your answers yesterday, there was a very bright line on the questions of torture. And the ability of executive or inability of an executive to ignore the law -- that seems nowhere near as bright a line today. Maybe I just don't understand.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: All right, Jeffrey Toobin?
Is he going to be, in your judgment, confirmed by this recalcitrant committee?
TOOBIN: Easily. Easily. The fact that he is not alberto gonzale gonzales, he starts with miles ahead. And also the fact that he pledged to keep politics out of the Justice Department. Michael Mukasey's a former federal judge. He's not a political person. President Bush didn't know him from a hole in the wall when he interviewed him for this job. The idea that he will be independent politically, I think that's all he needs.
These questions about executive power, though, he is very sympathetic apparently to the president's view. That's more controversial but it won't stop him from getting confirmed.
SCHNEIDER: That's right.
DOBBS: You get the last word.
SCHNEIDER: Mukasey said the president's authority as commander in chief might allow him to supersede laws written by Congress. That's a pretty bold assertion of executive authority. Very welcome in the White House. But Democrats I think are going to have to be very, very cautious about approving this guy.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst, with the last raspy word -- we hope you get to feeling better over the weekend. Thank you very much. We'll give you another day or so here. To get well. Thank you. And Jeffrey Toobin -- The Nine -- best-selling author and great colleague. Thanks for being here, appreciate it.
Up nexty, Communist China: it may launch an effor to buy a stake in one of this country's leading Wall Street institutions. We'll have that story about how free free trade isn't.
And top FDA officials: well, they don't have much money at that agency, they can't protect you. They cannot assure the safety of our food supply, but guess what? They can give their top executives and officials at the FDA bonuses -- bonuses apprently for not doing their job.
We'll have that story, a great deal more.
And new charges two former Border Patrol agents, already betrayed by their government, are receiving worse tereatment in prison than suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. We're coming right back with that and a great deal more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Outrage and disbelief over the latest scandal at the embattled Food and Drug Administration. Last week FDA officials told Congress they don't have enough money and inspectors to screen more than a percent, just one percent of our imported food. But as Lisa Sylvester now reports on another case of the best government that money can buy, there seems to be enough money around to pay rather hefty bonuses for the top brass at the dysfunctional FDA.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (voice-over): The Food and Drug Administration has been failing to keep dangerous food imports out of the United States, according to congressional lawmakers. Despite the low marks, FDA top officials have awarded themselves generous bonuses.
CHRIS WALDROP, CONSUMER FEDERATION OF AMERICA: A lot of those bonuses are going to the top officials and it's not really going to the people that are on the ground that are doing the work every single day, protecting the American public.
SYLVESTER: According to congressional records, FDA annual retention bonuses ballooned from $2.7 million in 2002 to more than $8 million in 2006.
One employee alone, Margaret Glavin, the associate commissioner for regulatory affairs, received a cash bonus of more than $48,000 in 2005 and then another cash bonus topping $44,000 in 2006. This is in addition to her annual salary of more than $150,000 a year. Glavin did not return CNN's call for comment.
The hefty cash bonuses have been handed out as the FDA has been strapped for cash, with an imported food inspection rate of less than 1 percent.
WENONAH HAUTER, FOOD AND WATER WATCH: I think that people would be pretty shocked to know that this is how their taxpayer dollars are being spent. We need more inspection. We need more testing. And the agency says that they don't have the money to do this, but, yet, they have the money to do bonuses.
SYLVESTER: The agency has requested more funding in next year's budget, but during a hearing last week, Representative Bart Stupak, who chairs the subcommittee that oversees the FDA, demanded accountability.
DR. DAVID ACHESON, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR FOOD PROTECTION, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: We have made requests through the 2008 budget process for an increase in...
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: And how much was that increase?
ACHESON: I think it was about $10 million or thereabouts.
STUPAK: And what was the $10 million going to be targeted for? Hopefully not bonuses.
SYLVESTER: The FDA justifies the bonuses saying it must compete with the private sector. A spokeswoman tells CNN -- quote -- "They could make a lot more money in the private sector. One of the ways to recruit and retain them is to offer them bonuses."
SYLVESTER (on camera): Members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee have asked the inspector general of the Department of Health and Human Services to investigate the bonuses handed out. Senator Byron Dorgan has asked for the Government Accountability Office to conduct a similar review. Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Communist China expanding its economy, expanding its military all with the great Yankee dollars. So many of those dollars, in fact, China is buying up corporations all over the world, and it appears communist China's next target is investment firm Bear Stearns. China already America's biggest banker, by the way, the second largest holder of our debt bought with a cash proceeds of that record trade deficit.
As Christine Romans reports, the Chinese are putting America's money to work in their own interest and making it very clear, there's no such thing as free trade.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Is America's banker looking to buy a piece of an American investment bank?
A top Chinese banking official this week says CITIC Group, the overseas investment arm of the Chinese government, is interested in a stake in Bear Stearns -- a Wall Street institution that survived the crash of '29, but has battered by the mortgage crisis.
A day later, Civic issued a statement saying a deal is not imminent.
But what is clear is that China has the intent and the funds to buy almost anything it wants -- and financial services are next.
CHARLES MCMILLION, MBG INFORMATION SERVICES: Investment banking is a unique industry. It gives them just a phenomenal perch from which to learn about the technologies of all of our industries, the best management practices of all of our industry. And that's part of the larger Chinese strategy.
ROMANS: Bear Stearns would not comment.
China has been an aggressive buyer of the world's natural resources. It has sought major technology assets, like the 3Com deal raising alarms in Congress.
China has the money to spend thanks to U.S. trade policies that led to record trade deficits. China's war chest of foreign currency has exploded, from just over $200 billion in 2001 to more than $1.4 trillion today. Now, China's economic planners say they want to put those dollars to work.
WILLIAM HAWKINS, U.S. BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY COUNCIL: All of this is being done by the government of China. This is not private enterprise. This is not business as usual. This is the government allocating these, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars for government objectives.
ROMANS: China's reserves are rising by at least $10 billion a week this year. Economist McMillon says consider that government-owned Lenovo bought IBM's PC business in 2005 for $1.25 billion. That means China could buy eight such companies every week.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ROMANS (on camera): As the dollar declines, there are concerns that China may be tempted to sell off treasury assets, ultimately driving up interest rates in this country. Which such a huge war chest, even that threat gives China incredible leverage over the U.S. economy, Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely. And the idiots, the fools, the morons, whatever you want to call them, that make up the treasury's brain trust, who have been calling upon China to adjust its trade policies and its international financial policies, it may be occurring for them right now that it's time for the United States to make those adjustments.
ROMANS: We looked in august at the treasury flows, Lou in Japan and China and Taiwan, the central banks were big sellers of the U.S. treasuries. So it's very clear this is something to watch right now.
DOBBS: Christine, thank you very much. Christine Romans.
Up next here, blistering new criticism ever Governor Eliot Spitzer's proposal to give away those New York driver's licenses to illegal aliens. I'll be talking with a top New York State senator who is fighting to kill that plan.
And disturbing charges that two Former Border patrol agents already betrayed by our justice department are receiving worse treatment in prison than suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean have already spent 275 days in federal prison for shooting and wounding an illegal alien drug smuggler who was given immunity by the Justice Department to testify against the two agents.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After nine months behind bars, the fight to free former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean is intensifying. They're serving 11- and 12- year federal prison terms for shooting and wounding a Mexican drug smuggler in Texas more than two years ago.
Congressional supporters say the agents were either wrongly convicted or received unduly harsh punishment. Now 46 lawmakers have written to attorney general-designate Michael Mukasey, demanding he investigate the agents' prosecution and treatment in prison.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R) CA, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They're in solitary confinement and being treated worse than those prisoners -- than the terrorists are being treated in Guantanamo Bay. This is outrageous. The administration, the president of the United States is responsible. And if this new attorney general won't even look into it, he shouldn't be attorney general.
WIAN: Bureau of Prison officials say the former agents are in solitary for their own protection. Ramos was badly beaten by inmates during his brief stay in the general population.
Lawmakers displayed a chart showing how Guantanamo detainees receive privileges not available to the former agents, who spend 23 hours a day in their cells.
Congressman Louie Gohmert is a former Texas district judge.
REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R), TEXAS: What we want to see is fairness. What we want to see is justice. And when you look at the case and the way it was handled, the way it was tried, it appears clearly there was great injustice.
WIAN: The chief prosecutor says the agents were given a fair trial, that they shot someone they knew to be unarmed and running away. The Texas border security group called Eyes on the Border disagrees. It will soon air these television ads urging a presidential pardon for Ramos and Compean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far the president has refused to give these two agents the same consideration he gave his friend Scooter Libby, when he commuted his sentence before he served any time in prison.
WIAN: And criticizing their treatment in prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The treatment that is inhumane and worse than the treatment terrorists receive at Guantanamo Bay. And they call this justice in America.
WIAN: Ramos and Compean are appealing their convictions. Oral arguments are scheduled to begin the first week in December.
(on camera): Meanwhile, congressional supporters are pleading with the justice department to release the agents on bail, perhaps they can allow them to wear ankle monitors so they can be home with their families for the holidays. So far the administration has not budged. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: TSA security officers at our nation's airports, it turns out have failed to discover most of the fake bombs smuggled through checkpoints by undercover investigators. TSA officials confirmed that airport screeners at Los Angeles international missed 75 percent of those fake bombs. At Chicago O'Hare Airport, missed only 60 percent of them. At San Francisco's airport where a private company checks screeners continuously, only 20 percent of the fake bombs got through. Are you feeling secure yet?
TSA officials say they're now using San Francisco's testing protocols nationwide. They say there have been improvements, although they wouldn't relation the results. Presumably for the TSA, 20 percent of the bombs getting through is a significant improvement.
Coming up next, the struggle to deport criminal illegal aliens from the United States. We'll have the inside story from Ames Holbrook, former federal agent and author of the book "The Deporter."
Also, despite fierce opposition, New York Governor Eliot Spitzer is determined to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens. The governor using what he calls steamroller tactics and frankly, he says in has nothing to do with immigration. That's how twisted the governor's approach can be.
I'll have a few thoughts for the good governor and Senator Hillary Clinton. She's got some thoughts about the governor's position, too. I'll have a few thoughts for her support of the governor. All of that and we'll be talking with the panel of the best political experts in the country.
Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New York Governor Eliot Spitzer driving ahead with his intent to give away driver's license to illegal aliens. His plan facing overwhelming opposition. He, frankly, doesn't care.
The State Senate is convening a special session this coming Monday. They are going to try to block the governor's proposal to give away the driver's licenses. The governor, he's got his gloves off, as usual, and he isn't budging. As Bill Tucker now reports, those opposed need no reminder of Spitzer's self-described steamroller approach.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (voice-over): New York State funds health care to the economically disadvantaged and the uninsured, but now comes word that the governor has cut more than $400,000 worth of state health care in education funding to the district of one of the governor's staunchest opponents of his plan to give illegal aliens driver's licenses.
Almost one quarter of that was for funding for a free medical clinic for children. The cuts were no accident, says Republican Assemblyman Jim Tedisco.
JAMES TEDISCO (R), NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: He wants me to back off my position of keeping this a secure state by not coming out in opposition to giving illegal aliens driver's licenses. And, if I don't, he reaches around me and goes into my assembly district and takes money away from kids who don't have health insurances.
TUCKER: The governor's office says the cuts were not retaliatory. A spokesman notes that ample discretionary funds were available to the assemblyman for the projects, but that he chose not to fund the projects.
Going against Spitzer is tough. He's already threatened the Senate majority leader with an IRS investigation for getting in his way. He's threatening to sue the county clerks for not implementing his policy.
It's a style that Spitzer, himself, admits is akin to a steamroller. Ironically, almost as a reminder of what is at stake surrounding this driver's license dispute, a major identify fraud ring was busted in the New York City borough of queens on Wednesday; 41 people have been charged with supplying fraudulent government identity documents such as resident alien cards, Social Security cards and driver's licenses.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: On Friday at the New York University Law School, Governor Spitzer made it very clear illegal aliens will be given driver's licenses. He doesn't care that the poll show 72 percent of New Yorkers oppose him. He won't back away from supporters who brand those who oppose him racist.
And he made it clear that he doesn't need the legislature to do it. Lou, in some states that's what's known as an executive order. But the governor calls it a policy directive.
DOBBS: Whatever he calls it, and the good governor, this arrogant, rich kid's brat who is behaving abysmally in every respect but in utter disregard of citizens and, of course, pandering to every one of the socioethnocentric interest groups in the State of New York and beyond.
I mean, what in the world? He says he wants a little different tonality in this discussion and debate? So do I. I'd like to see him become something less than an arrogant braying ass and act more like a governor in a democratically elected government seat working with his state legislature in the interest of the citizens of this state.
TUCKER: He doesn't need them. He's made that clear. And he's said that over and over again, Lou.
DOBBS: Oh. And it's going to be interesting to see these state legislators, Democrats and Republicans alike do. And the county clerks said they're going to defy him. They've just had a bellyful of this guy. No wonder. He doesn't wear well, does he? You don't have to answer that.
Thank you very much, Bill Tucker.
New York state senators are convening a special session this coming Monday. They'll try to block the governor's proposal to give away those drivers' licenses to illegal aliens, Republican Senator John Flanagan, among the state senators fighting the governor. I asked Senator Flanagan what in the world he thinks this governor is doing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN FLANAGAN (R), NEW YORK STATE SENATE: I'm not sure he's thinking at all. I mean when we -- this policy came out in September. We had already acted in the Senate in June. I followed the court of appeals case that came out and we introduced in past legislation to actually put into law what the regulations were.
I honestly -- it would be very difficult for me to fathom what the governor is thinking because I've been in office 21 years. I've gotten more e-mails, phone calls and letters in violent and vehement opposition to policy.
DOBBS: Yes. Well, you mentioned in June the Senate passing legislation to strengthen -- to strengthen requirements in order to obtain a driver's license in the State of New York. The state assembly has taken no action on that legislation.
What's going on there?
FLANAGAN: The assembly is loath to move on issues like this. We -- I think one of the things that they lose sight of -- and a lot people are losing sight of -- is that driving is still a privilege. It's not a right. We have a very set standard set of rules and regulations and laws guiding how people can drive. And we make sure that you have to meet stringent requirements.
The governor is trying to throw that out the window. And I certainly can't understand it. And I know my constituents can't, either.
DOBBS: I talked with two Democratic assemblywomen here earlier this week -- both absolutely opposed, talking with democratically -- Democratic county clerks, elected, who are in absolute opposition. I can't find a very large group of people in elected office and the governor's party who is support him.
FLANAGAN: You know, I think this speaks volumes about how the governor actually governs. It's his idea, so he believes it's good simply because it's his idea. He has said -- and he went back in July and said I don't need the legislature. I'm going to govern the way I want. I'm going to use my agencies.
He's rammed this down the throats of the public or is, at least, trying to. There has been no hearings. We're the first one to have a hearing on the subject -- no transparency and no involvement of the public.
DOBBS: Well, you're going to have a special session Monday, correct?
FLANAGAN: Yes.
DOBBS: In the state capitol.
What's going to happen as a result?
FLANAGAN: Well, we have a couple of different pieces of legislation. I'm sure there's going to be a very extensive debate on this. We had a seven hour hearing on Monday -- four-and-a-half hours of question and answers with the commissioner of Motor Vehicles. And it's going to -- it's going to get a lot of coverage. And, frankly, it should, because, again, this is -- what is happening now should have happened months ago. We're, you know, it's sort of like the horse is out of the gate and you're trying to catch it and bring it back in.
DOBBS: Right.
FLANAGAN: The governor threw this out there -- and let's not forget the fact that for the first nine months of his administration -- we shouldn't fool anybody -- they were planning this. This is all secretively done and then all of a sudden thrown out to the public in September. They never came to the legislature. They never came to the Senate. They never came to the chair of the Transportation Committee. They never sought the input of anybody.
DOBBS: You know, this governor referred to those who are opposed to this an anti-immigrant. The governor could have said a lot of things in response to the criticism. But when he says it's anti- immigrant to oppose this kind of this idiocy, this kind of outrageous, arrogant nonsense that's in direct opposition to the interests of New York State citizens, you know, I think the man is scurrilous. I find him to be lower than a toad's belly. And I had respect for this man as attorney general.
FLANAGAN: Well, he operated quite differently when he was attorney general because he actually had to enforce the law. I think not only has he violated a New York State statute in doing this, I think he's violating federal law. And, in many respects, I just don't think he cares. You know, again, there was no input sought from anybody who might be affected by this.
DOBBS: Is there anyone in the state capitol -- is there a -- does the governor have a cousin, an old friend who can say, you know, you're being a damned fool here, it's time to get -- to get smart and start thinking about the people you're supposed to represent?
FLANAGAN: He's got a staff around him. But all you have to do -- look at -- look at the reaction from the public. Look at the reaction from people like you. And you're hearing it from people like me and the folks that we represent.
DOBBS: You know, and talking -- I mentioned the assemblywomen who were here, Democrats. The fact of the matter is they're -- they tell me their constituents -- and I'm hearing this from everyone in the assembly, everyone in the Senate I've talked with -- their constituents already -- they're outraged.
FLANAGAN: I think people are outraged for a number of reasons, one of which is why can't people legally go through the process?
Why do we have to confer a benefit on people?
And then you and I and everyone else, we are actually held to a higher standard. They're held to a lower standard. That's not the way it should be.
DOBBS: Well, Jenny Fields, Assemblywoman Eddington have come in here -- it's going to be interesting, I have to say this, to see the depth and dimensions of his arrogance and to see what can be done.
Thank you very much for being here.
FLANAGAN: Appreciate it.
DOBBS: And we will be talking, I'm sure, along the way.
FLANAGAN: Yes, we will. And we're going to keep fighting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up, God and politics, the Christian right making a big push for their values-based candidates. We'll have that report and much more. I'll be talking about that with our panel of political experts and the inside story as well of how the federal government has failed to keep illegal alien criminals off our streets. We'll be talking with the author of an important new book, Ames Holbrook, the author of "The Deporter." Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: It's no surprise to our viewers, viewers of this program, that the federal government is failing miserably at trying in anyway to keep illegal criminal aliens off our nation's streets.
Ames Holbrook witnessed these failures from the front lines of our battle to secure our borders and enforce immigration law. He's a former deportation officer for Immigration and Naturalization Service. Holbrook is the author of the new book "The Deporter".
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMES HOLBROOK, AUTHOR, "THE DEPORTER": What's going on right now is once we apprehend these guys -- and I'm talking about aggravated felons. We're talking about rapists, murderers, child molesters -- we then, once they have a legally binding warrant of deportation in their files, we then seek permission from their own country to send them back.
But guess what?
Their home countries don't want them. And at this point, our government says well, all right. In that case, we'll set them free here in the United States on our streets, so they can continue to rape and murder and molest children on our soil.
DOBBS: You begin the book with the story of a man named Rodolfo, a career criminal, convictions -- eight felony convictions, everything from burglary to battery. You had him in custody and were ordered to let him go.
I mean that's incredible.
HOLBROOK: It's incredible, but, unfortunately, if you're a deportation officer, you know it all too well. Our government is enabling these foreign countries to plant and maintain their assassins on our soil to kill us from the inside. And, again, I'm not being abstract. I'm talking about murders and rapists -- the works.
DOBBS: We have seen estimates on the number of criminal illegal aliens in this country -- we're talking about serious criminal illegal aliens in this country -- ranging from half a million to 600,000 on the streets, with something like an effective task force from ICE out there of 3,000 agents. This is, by any -- by any analysis, a hopeless effort for the part of ICE without significant increases in staff and resources, isn't it?
HOLBROOK: Well, Lou, you're right on the money. We need -- we need more agents. We need more investigators. We need a whole lot more deportation officers -- up from hundreds to thousands.
But, number one, we need to make sure that when we catch these guys -- these horrible criminals -- that we force feed them to their home countries and don't take no for an answer, the way our president and Congress are doing right now. Otherwise, we can round them all up. As long as we're taking them back into our community, we're not doing any good.
DOBBS: You know, in talking with Border Patrol agents today, ICE agents, they're very proud of their responsibilities and what they are able to accomplish. They are also extraordinarily frustrated at what they are not permitted to do by direction of the Department of Homeland Security, the Justice Department and this administration.
What in the world is this country to do to secure our borders, to have an effective immigration policy and to remove dangerous criminal illegal aliens from our streets?
HOLBROOK: Well, what we need to do right away is make our politicians accountable, force them to crack down on these defiant nations who refuse to take their criminals back. And we can do that by cutting off aid, cutting off trade, refusing to issue visas to these countries. We've done it before. When I was on, we did it to Guyana. It works. So we should do it again.
DOBBS: And, of course, we might have to consider what do with the criminal corporate employers of these people attracting the millions of illegal aliens into this country.
HOLBROOK: Well, we've got a lot of things to solve. But number one is we get these criminals out of here, Lou.
DOBBS: Absolutely.
Ames Holbrook, thanks for being here.
The book is "The Deporter." It's on book shelves in all the finest bookstores all around the country.
HOLBROOK: Thanks a lot, Lou.
DOBBS: We appreciate your being with us. Ames Holbrook.
HOLBROOK: I appreciate you staying in the fight, Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Up next, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, struggling through what has been a very difficult week for her in the nation's capital.
And the head of the Republican National Committee talking about a tough time, quitting just after 10 months on the job. We'll be talking about all of that and a lot more of our panel of esteemed political analysts and strategists. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political minds in the country here in New York, Errol Louis, columnist, "New York Daily News." Good to have you with us, Errol.
Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf. Hank, thanks for being here. And in Washington, DC, our bureau there, Diana West, "Washington Times" columnist. Diana, good to have you there. Or have you there, actually, as the case may be.
Let's start out with the Armenian genocide and Nancy Pelosi's commitment to basically in the minds at least of conservatives, in their words, roll back any effort to win the war in Iraq as a result of.
DIANA WEST, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Me?
DOBBS: You.
WEST: Yes. Well, I actually supported that bill.
DOBBS: Congratulations.
WEST: As opposed to most conservative conservatives.
DOBBS: That's terrific.
WEST: Yes. The timing made it all very sticky.
DOBBS: Sticky? It's 90 years ago. What are you talking about, the timing is sticky?
WEST: No, no, in terms of ...
DOBBS: It's insane!
WEST: I still support it. But in terms of our moving troops and so on through Turkey, I think it's a very short-sighted movement to oppose such a bill because again ...
DOBBS: Diana West, let me ask you this.
WEST: Yes.
DOBBS: And I want to just -- it is -- this is the official policy of LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, OK?
WEST: Yes.
DOBBS: The Turks in World War I carried out genocide against the Armenians.
WEST: Correct.
DOBBS: That's a fact.
WEST: Should be admitted. We agree. We have no argument.
DOBBS: Admitted. It's what it is.
WEST: Right.
DOBBS: What in the dickens difference does it make what the U.S. Congress says, does or thinks about it? Why in the world ...
WEST: Do you know what it is? They are kowtowing to a very irrational streak that is across the Islamic world. In Turkey ...
DOBBS: Are you talking about the Americans? Nancy Pelosi?
WEST: No.
DOBBS: What are you talking about?
WEST: I'm talking about the fact they're dropping this bill as we speak.
DOBBS: You think that's irrational?
WEST: Yes, I do.
DOBBS: Hank Sheinkopf, do you think it's irrational?
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it's nutty to deny something that occurred that absolutely occurred.
DOBBS: OK. But there's a lot of stuff out there ...
WEST: Agreed.
SHEINKOPF: What I'm more concerned about is the timing of this being raised. This is a different issue. And I think those who deny its occurrence are just really wrong.
DOBBS: The occurrence of genocide?
SHEINKOPF: That's correct.
DOBBS: I couldn't agree with you more. It's a historical fact.
But what in the world business is it of a Congress at a time when a nation is at war confronting global terrorism. Our public schools are a disaster. We cannot provide health care on a reasonably successful basis to our citizens. I mean, how could we be taking up the time of the body politic and the people we represent to our interest with this kind of nonsense?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": It's a good example, Lou, of why the congress ought to tread lightly or not at all on areas of foreign affairs, especially when you have something as delicate as this situation. It's gone on for a hundred years. You go back again to Churchill and the basics of that area, trying to deal with the Kurds and the Shiites and the Sunnis.
DOBBS: That's what you mean. What's been going on ...
LOUIS: Involves getting Turkey on your side. They've got a Kurdish problem there.
DOBBS: Look, I'm not -- to be honest with you, folks, I don't care whether -- straightforwardly, Turkey is not a nation today in 2007 that is working in the interest of the United States.
WEST: No, you're exactly right.
DOBBS: They're apathetical to the interest of the United States.
WEST: Correct.
DOBBS: I could care less about appeasing the Turks. But I would like to see the Congress of the United States focus on issues that are of moment and relevance of absolutely critical to the national interest. What in the world are these idiots doing?
SHEINKOPF: Well, they're not dealing with health care and they're not dealing with immigration and that's for sure, OK?
DOBBS: Okay, let's go to Turkey now. Little Turkey -- well, little Turkey, they've got about 30 times the number of people as the Armenians. Why are we even suggesting that we would appease or accommodate a nation for expedience in logistics to carry out a war in Iraq.
LOUIS: Well, I don't know if appeasement the right word.
WEST: It is appeasement.
DOBBS: It is precisely this word. This administration is saying, oh, no, don't talk about the Armenian genocide.
WEST: Exactly.
DOBBS: Because we would upset our supply lines, Incirlik Airbase. Isn't it unbecoming. Unseemly.
WEST: It is very unbecoming.
DOBBS: Go ahead, Diana.
WEST: It has to do with validating the irrational and absolutely untoward attitudes of criticism of Turkey that Turkey tries to enforce on its own citizens and now the rest of the world, including us, the sole superpower. The is something we see in terms of across the Islamic world when we try to appease Muslims by not publishing Mohammed cartoons. Just recently in Afghanistan, there was an incident involving a destroyed Koran, and ...
DOBBS: I understand. I just don't care.
WEST: It's related.
DOBBS: I just don't care.
WEST: It's an important symbolic issue.
DOBBS: It's important for the United States to focus on values that are important to the United States and focus on U.S. policy. And, for example, Governor Spitzer in New York coming out and saying he wants to give driver's licenses away to illegal aliens. And Senator Clinton, boffo, Governor Spitzer, basically.
SHEINKOPF: Not so good.
DOBBS: You know this man. What the heck is he thinking?
SHEINKOPF: I think the problem is that people are being less tactical and more emotional. I'm talking about the politicians. This is bad. His constituency, parts of it may like it but on reflection, when they stop for a moment, they're not going to like it. He's using political capital that will be needed next year. When economy starts to slow in the area of the country where the financial economy is frankly the most sensitive to what occurs.
DOBBS: This man is so arrogant, I don't think he cares about political capital, do you, Errol?
LOUIS: I think he's blown too much of it to care about holding on to it. You've g to a situation where these issues -- Let's say there's some validity to bringing people out of the shadows or to making sure that people can drive, as if there was a connection between license and driving ability. But even if that were the case, it would make sense to have some hearings, have some findings. Talk to people. Even within his own party.
DOBBS: You mean pretend it's a democratic government in the State of New York?
LOUIS: Well, at a minimum pretend that he wants to pass this, that he wants to consent -- he wants the consent of the people that elected him.
DOBBS: We'll be back with our panel in just one moment. Stay with us. We're going to really go after it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, we're back with Errol Louis, Hank Sheinkopf, Diana West. Let's, if we could, I'd just like to - Family Research Council President Tony Perkins this week holding a values voters summit. This is what he had to say about consensus candidates and third party candidates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: I think that issue has been kind of overblown. There's no desire to create a third party. There's no effort under way to create a third party. But what we said was more of a declaration of principle, that we simply cannot cross the line in supporting a pro-abortion candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Wow! Diana West, that's pretty strong stuff. Do you think that's the way it's going to be?
WEST: I think it's the way it is now. I just don't think this is going to carry all the way straight through to Election Day.
DOBBS: Do you think there will be a third party?
WEST: No, I don't.
DOBBS: Another candidate?
WEST: No I don't.
DOBBS: And so they're going to line up behind the Republican nominee, as per usual?
WEST: I think ultimately many of them will. There may be some fallout but most of them will.
DOBBS: What you hear from Tony Perkins I think is a decision to remain relevant. The first Republican caucus, the Iowa caucus in early January is less than 75 days away and they don't want to just fall off a cliff just yet.
WEST: Speaking of falling off a cliff and on religious issues, my gosh, Senator Barack Obama and -- it appears to me at least, has found religion. My goodness. He has found a reason for God and it to be insinuated into every aspect of everything he's doing suddenly. Do you find that? Are you taken aback by that? Do you find it revelatory?
SHEINKOPF: I've always felt the democrats should be using what is best about America, and that's the sense about our collective religiosity moreso than any other nation in the world to their benefit. The problem is, the people voting in the primaries by and large, don't share those extraordinarily overwhelming sentiments.
DOBBS: You're talk background the self-loathing atheistic liberal die-hards?
SHEINKOPF: I'm talking New York and California and New York and California voters.
LOUIS: It doesn't hurt Obama a bit to go on a 40 city gospel tour with superstars and 5,000 people in arenas coast to coast.
DOBBS: And on the right in the Republican primaries you've got those -- well, those religious right wing -- what do they call them, wing nuts or whatever, these stereotypes that at the extremes of the spectrum.
SHEINKOPF: It tells you something. If it doesn't happen in this cycle it will in the next cycle. There's a definitive change that is generational, by the way, I think, going to occur in American politics where values and sense of what values are, are going to be somehow moved. They're not right and left anymore. They're more in the center.
DOBBS: How about this. We're talking about values. It is clear that both parties and their candidates for president are ignoring illegal immigration, which is now, obviously, emerging as one of the top three issues, that Iraq, while it's of great concern, is not in anyway superseding the economy and fears and concerns and rational fears and concerns.
DIANA: Would you say that's true?
DOBBS: Absolutely.
DIANA: Would you say that's true of the Republicans even at this point? Tom Tancredo and ...
DOBBS: Absolutely. You've got Republicans telling you, like President Bush, that the economy is boffo when the top one percent of the country have a record percentage of the national income and middle class working men and women are getting wiped out.
WEST: It's incredible. That was the big motivating emotional issue last year was of course the vote against the amnesty bill. So I ...
DOBBS: No, I'm talking about the economy. When you talk about illegal immigration, you're talking about the disconnect primarily, but also certainly with the Republicans, primarily with the Democrats, but the Republicans want top pander to their corporate masters as well.
SHEINKOPF: I would make the following prediction. That if this gets down to Rudolph Giuliani as the Republican, which is not unlikely today and Senator Hillary Clinton, also not unlikely today that immigration will become his argument in the heartland and if he can beat her, it will be on that issue which will make the white working class and the black working class in that part of the country pay attention.
Blacks will not vote - whites will in Detroit suburbs. And that's the difference on that issue alone.
DOBBS: Errol Louis, you get the last quick word.
LOUIS: Hank's got it just right. When you have the level of insecurity that people are feeling, the voters are feeling, candidates who ignore it on immigration and on other issues I think are going to get wiped out next year.
DOBBS: Well, and I hope they get wiped out by folks who have decided to register as independents and tell these branding mechanisms that call themselves political parties to go stick it and not take voters for granted. Just a thought. Thank you, very much, Errol, Diana, thank you, Hank, appreciate it as always.
Thanks for being with us. THIS WEEK AT WAR begins now with Tom Foreman.
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