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Lou Dobbs This Week
Mexico Is Salmonella Source; Ramos, Compean Charges; Senator Stevens Case
Aired August 02, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, HOST: Tonight, new charges of bungling and incompetent at the Food and Drug Administration. The Food and Drug Administration is now admitting what we have been reporting here for weeks -- that Mexico is the source of the salmonella outbreak.
And, new protests over refusal of a federal appeals court to throw out the most serious charges against former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean. Now, three congressmen who want the president to commute those sentences, talked with Lou.
We'll have all of that and much more, straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: News, debate, and opinion. Here now: Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
Senators McCain and Obama tonight remained locked in a very close race three months before Election Day. Obama is failing to win a bounce in the polls from his overseas trip; and McCain is unable to convince voters that he has the best economic policy.
Now, pollsters say the election is turning into a referendum on Obama, and many voters remain highly skeptical about Obama's background and value. One recent poll even says McCain is leading Obama among likely voters.
Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): With an unpopular president and a bad economy, this election is not supposed to be close. Asked whether they would rather see a Democrat or a Republican elected president, voters said they preferred Democrat by 12 points. But in CNN's latest Poll of Polls, Barack Obama is only three points ahead of John McCain.
So far, the election looks more like a referendum on Obama than on President Bush. Many voters don't know about much about Obama. McCain is trying to fill in the blanks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MCCAIN CAMPAIGN AD)
NARRATOR: He is the biggest celebrity in the world -- but is he ready to lead? (END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Those ads may be keeping the race close.
EVAN TRACEY, CAMPAIGN MEDIA ANALYSIS GROUP: Negative ads make undecided voters just that more undecided. So what it can do is have a way of at least freezing the race in place.
SCHNEIDER: The Obama campaign is responding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, OBAMA CAMPAIGN AD)
NARRATOR: He is practicing the politics of the past. John McCain. His attacks on Barack Obama: not true, false, baloney, the low road, baseless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHNEIDER: Obama is trying to avoid falling into McCain's trap.
TRACEY: I think, the McCain campaign would like nothing more than to get Obama campaign in a back-and-forth with negative ads that sort of carries through the fall. This, obviously, works against Senator Obama's caricature of being a new kind of politician.
SCHNEIDER: McCain's negative strategy is keeping the focus on Obama, by nearly two to one, voters say they are paying more attention to what kind of president Obama would be than what kind of president McCain would be.
(on camera): McCain is making the campaign a referendum on Obama. What can Obama do about it? He's trying to answer McCain's charges and stay above the fray at the same time. That takes a lot of discipline.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: The latest CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll confirms that Senator Obama's overseas tour failed to lift his poll ratings and that, despite the liberal media's strong support for Obama. Now, this new poll gives Obama 51 percent and Senator McCain 44 percent. It shows the race is virtually unchanged since late June.
Both candidates are promising to change the way that Washington conducts the people's business.
And this week, a federal grand jury indicted Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska, after a long corruption investigation. The indictment accuses Stevens of concealing gifts worth more than $250,000. Stevens pleaded not guilty when he appeared in court.
Kelli Arena has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new first floor, a garage, a wraparound deck, all for his vacation home in Alaska. More than $250,000 worth of gifts for an influential senator that were allegedly never disclosed. Senator Ted Stevens was indicted by a federal grand jury for not reporting those gifts as required by law.
MATTHEW FRIEDRICH, ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL: These items were not disclosed on Senator Stevens' financial forms which he filed under penalties of perjury.
ARENA: Prosecutors say the undisclosed gifts were given to Stevens over a seven-year period by an oil services company, VECO and its CEO, Bill Allen, who pleaded guilty last year to bribery. The indictment says when the senator was receiving those gifts, VECO employees were soliciting him for, quote, "multiple official actions," including funding for projects in Pakistan and Russia, but the government stopped short of charging Stevens with taking bribes.
FRIEDRICH: The indictment does not allege a quid pro quo.
ARENA: Stevens has been under investigation for more than a year, as part of a larger probe into public corruption in Alaska in which seven people have already been convicted. His home was searched last summer by the FBI and the IRS.
In a radio interview at the time, he insisted he paid for his home's elaborate renovation himself.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. TED STEVENS, (R) ALASKA: Every bill that was presented to us has been paid, personally with our own money...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ARENA: Stevens is still maintaining his innocence. In a written statement, he says he's "never knowingly submitted a false disclosure form." His colleagues for now are giving him the benefit of the doubt.
SEN. HARRY REID, (D) MAJORITY LEADER: It's a sad day for him, us.
SEN. JOHN WARNER, (R) VIRGINIA: I hope that this will turn out fairly, and consistent with law, and good decision.
ARENA: The fact that Stevens is 84 years old could play a role in a plea agreement or possible sentencing.
(on camera): Stevens won't be arrested, prosecutors say that he'll be able to turn himself in. There's no timetable yet on when that will happen.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: Senator Ted Stevens is no stranger to controversy. Senator Stevens is famous for wearing an "Incredible Hulk" tie when is he preparing for a political fight in the Senate and one of those fights came two years ago, after Stevens described the Internet as a, quote, "series of tubes that could be clogged with information." Perhaps, his biggest fight came when Stevens demanded more than $450 million in federal spending for two bridges in Alaska; they are the so-called "bridges to nowhere."
Stevens remained very popular in Alaska, though. The state's governor even declared Stevens's 80th birthday in 2003 a state holiday, calling it "Senator Ted Stevens Appreciation Day." Senator Stevens, if convicted, will still keep his pension worth at least $122,000 a year, when he retires. And Stevens wouldn't be the only congressional felon to collect a taxpayer-funded pension.
Many convicted congressmen are currently collecting retirement benefits. A new congressional ethics bill attempted to change that, but apparently didn't go far enough.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former congressmen, Dan Rostenkowski, James Traficant, Duke Cunningham, and Bob Ney -- what do they all have in common? They all are convicted felons who are still receiving generous pensions paid for by you, the taxpayer. Together, their pensions total more than $250,000 every year for the rest of their lives.
REP. MARK KIRK, (R) ILLINOIS: When we get elected to Congress, we should be held to the highest standard, and I think that that means that if you are convicted of a public integrity felony, you should not have a right to your pension.
SYLVESTER: Since 1980, 20 lawmakers have been convicted of serious crimes and are still collecting taxpayer-funded pensions. Last year, Congress passed a law banning lawmakers convicted of certain felonies from receiving their pensions, but the law doesn't apply retroactively, and it includes only 11 types of felonies and leaves off many others, like income tax evasion.
Prosecutors say Senator Ted Stevens made false statements regarding $250,000 in gifts and house renovations he received from corporate executives. He pleaded not guilty, but if convicted, he would still be eligible to receive his pension.
MELANIE SLOAN, CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBILITY & ETHICS: Here we are in a situation where the very first time out of the box, this law applies, and it doesn't apply to Ted Stevens because this particular crime, committing false statements, doesn't count. It's not one of the crimes for which you'll lose your pension benefits.
SYLVESTER: Representative Mark Kirk has introduced legislation to close the loopholes. It would broaden current law so that any federal lawmaker who commits a felony that violates the public trust would not get to retire on the taxpayer's dime.
(on camera): Senator Ted Stevens is the Senate's longest serving Republican. The National Taxpayers Union calculates if he left office this year, he would be eligible to receive $122,000 pension every year for the rest of his life.
Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Over the past 50 years, members of Congress have been convicted of at least 16 different felonies and they include fraud, conspiracy, racketeering, extortion, and drug possession. One member was even convicted of manslaughter.
The Food and Drug Administration has let down the American people. Should the FDA's leadership resign? We'll have more on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The Food and Drug Administration is refusing to admit mistakes were made in handling this country's worst salmonella outbreak in a decade.
Now, the FDA has finally admitted what we've been reporting for over a month -- the source of the salmonella outbreak is Mexico. And that admission comes as the number people who have fallen ill climbs to more than 1,300 across 43 states and Washington, D.C. The actual number could be as high as 40,000.
Finally, after dozens of reports here and thousands of your e-mails to us, your Congress is taking action.
Louise Schiavone has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Food and Drug Administration was in a hot seat for a second day on Capitol Hill, under fire for a salmonella outbreak ongoing for 3 1/2 months.
REP. JOE BARTON, (R) TEXAS: You don't have to be a detective to know that the initial investigation didn't really help anybody.
SCHIAVONE: So far, the outbreak has triggered more than 1,300 reported illnesses, with more cases still coming in. At $100 million or more in losses to U.S. tomato growers, all the while, say several lawmakers, the wrong produce targeted. So far, the evidence of the outbreak bacteria has been found only on peppers and irrigation water in Mexico.
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS, (R) TEXAS: On the Lou Dobbs Show, when the commentator asked the reporter, "Well, what is the FDA recommending that consumers do to protect themselves?" We didn't have even the ability to say, no more imported peppers.
SCHIAVONE: In repeated exchanges, the FDA's David Acheson would not retreat from the government's first implication of tomatoes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, why don't you clear the tomato?
DR. DAVID ACHESON, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: At this point, there is nothing for FDA to say that would indicate that evidence that the CDC and the state generated early on in this investigation is incorrect.
SCHIAVONE: The FDA and the Centers for Disease Control insisted their questionnaires established an unmistakable early link to tomatoes. Questionnaires, which early on, ask lots of questions about tomatoes, but nothing about jalapenos or serranos. Fro example, the CDC outbreak questionnaire obtained by LOU DOBBS TONIGHT goes on at length about tomatoes, asking "Did you eat any raw, uncooked tomatoes? Do you eat raw tomatoes as part of fresh salsa, guacamole or pico de gallo?"
REP. DIANA DEGETTE, (D) COLORADO: That form never asked one question about peppers, and I'm wondering why. Now, I will tell you as someone who myself is from the southwest -- I never made salsa without putting peppers in it.
SCHIAVONE: The CDC promised to look into it.
(on camera): Lawmakers asked the FDA if the salmonella outbreak had been a bioterrorism attack, how would the FDA have changed this approach? The FDA, said David Acheson, would not be the lead investigating agency but its procedures otherwise would be the same.
Louise Schiavone for CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Congressman Bart Stupak is the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigation that held this week's hearings and Congressman Stupak spoke with Lou about the FDA's inability to give the American people a straight answer on the source of the salmonella outbreak.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BART STUPAK, (D) MICHIGAN: Well, not only that, but they continue to hold our farmers -- American farmers hostage. They continue to say, "Well, tomatoes are still suspect." The tomatoes never should have been suspect in the first place if they would have done their homework. And I think, you said it some time ago, Lou, when we first started doing this investigation, I think you put the bet out there that it would be probably south of our border, not the farmers in this country, but all of this food we're importing without being inspected or looked at.
LOU DOBBS, CNN HOST: Yes. And just so, to be clear why I did say that, weeks and weeks ago, is not because for any other reason than the fact that it was very clear to everyone objectively analyzing what was happening, there are only two sources for the tomatoes that could have -- in this case -- and one was central Florida and the other was Mexico. Central Florida, by logic, was taken out of it. Mexico remained, and we knew the Mexican government was protesting, as they do, thinking that would be the solution. It's stupid beyond belief.
STUPAK: But you said it, by logic, Florida should have been excluded in this salmonella, but they weren't. And they continued to say that tomato is still a suspect. I totally disagree. I think the FDA and the CDC owe, at least, an apology to the tomato growers in this country, and about $100 million in lost profit. They basically destroyed this year's crop because they didn't do their work.
DOBBS: And how about -- how about the thousands and thousands of Americans sickened, and some of them with lasting disastrous effect as a result of contracting salmonella? From an agency that is in cahoots and nearly every regard with the same industry, the growers industry that does not want to be regulated or go through inspections and had been aided and abetted by congresses (ph) of both parties for the past 20 years.
STUPAK: Well, we're actually working to global food and drug safety bill right now. We've been negotiating with the industry since April. We just completed the drug part of it, and now we're into the food safety.
DOBBS: Congressman, I want to compliment you for taking leadership on this issue and a number of others for the safety and the well-being of our consumers in this country. At the same time, we -- it is so crystal clear to anyone not living in that city, at least, and anyone concerned about the American people, that there is a relationship between the food industry, the growers associations, and Congress, that defies imagination.
The fact is that, with doubling the pay of men and women working in our produce fields, it would only add 10 cents to the cost of a head of lettuce.
STUPAK: Right.
DOBBS: Tomato growers, pepper growers or importers, exporters to this country from Mexico or any other country, the fees that they would charge, whether they like it or they don't like it, either hold the prize (ph), the treasure that is the American people up and say, "If you want to be part of a $14 trillion economy, then this is the price you'll pay." It is not a give-away and there's no responsibility on the part of our Congress and the elected representatives of the American people to tolerate their nonsense.
STUPAK: Well, not only that, Lou. Back in 2002, we passed a country of origin labeling which certainly would have narrowed down the focus in this whole investigation. Five years ago, six years ago now, and this administration still refuses to implement country of origin label.
DOBBS: Well, I had said it already on this broadcast, I will say it again. This lame duck administration cannot get out of that town soon enough to suit certainly me. I'll speak only for myself here.
STUPAK: Well, I won't disagree with you.
DOBBS: Well, I didn't think you probably would, and I don't think most Americans who care about the quality of life in this country and what's been done to them over the course of the past seven years will either. The idea that the European Union has affected, trace back (INAUDIBLE) has, has country of origin labels in place, and that this country is acting like some sort of backward third world disaster of a nation is inexcusable. Can we fix it reasonably soon?
STUPAK: Absolutely. Inexcusable, unacceptable, and cannot go on.
DOBBS: Bart Stupak, our honor (ph) to say to you, Congressman, Mr. Chairman, thank you for everything you're doing. You're one of -- you're one of the bright lights. We appreciate it.
STUPAK: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: A new threat to struggling homeowners, convicted felons working in our troubled mortgage industry -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Florida Governor Charlie Crist and three other state officials under fire after reports that the state allowed thousands of convicted criminals to work in the mortgage industry. And felons convicted of fraud and extortion were allowed to work with struggling homeowners.
Susan Candiotti has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former boxer Calvin Washington who has been on disability for years for a head injury was offered a refinancing deal to make home repairs.
CALVIN WASHINGTON, FORMER BOXER: They offered me $25,000 and they were going to give some hand to bail (ph) me out.
CANDIOTTI (on camera): Did these people give you the money?
WASHINGTON: No.
CANDIOTTI: What did they do?
WASHINGTON: They didn't do nothing for me.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Washington, who also suffered a stroke, is among the most vulnerable mortgage fraud victims in Florida. Stung not once but twice, lied to, he says by mortgage professionals who also turned out to be convicted felons.
An eight-month "Miami Herald" investigation produced stunning numbers. More than 4,000 licensed brokers who cleared background checks, despite convictions for fraud, bank robbery, extortion, that should have disqualified them. The paper found that more than 2,000 registered but unlicensed loan originators on the books, committed financial crimes, including fraud and money laundering.
(on camera): Your reaction when you heard these statistics?
RITCH WORKMAN, PRES., FL. ASSN. OF MORTGAGE BROKERS: I was absolutely furious.
CANDIOTTI: Florida's Mortgage Broker Association had been urging the state's regulatory agency to toughen its oversight since 2002.
WORKMAN: It devalues my license, because now, I can't say, "Hey, don't worry, I'm a mortgage broker. I've had a background check, I'm licensed, and I'm educated without the consumer thinking, "Well, so was that guy," and that guy was a felon.
CANDIOTTI: Scott Almeida was a felon, convicted on federal cocaine trafficking charges. Even told Florida regulators about it on his broker application. It should have disqualified him but didn't. His boss wrote on his behalf that Almeida would be, quote, "an asset." His mother said the state should let him "get on with his life." Almeida did before the law caught up with him
Prosecutors say, he and his partners wrote about 130 loans, pleading guilty to rip-offs totaling nearly $13 million. Florida's cabinet is now ordering an investigation into whether its own regulatory agency allowed convicted felons in the mortgage business.
GOV. CHARLIE CRIST, (R) FLORIDA: What's at work here is trust, and whether or not we put people in positions of trust, related to mortgages...
CANDIOTTI: When it comes to Scott Almeida, Calvin Washington's mother has a thing or two to say about trust.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish I could look in his face. Ooh, I would like to tell him something.
WASHINGTON: I tell him, he ripped me off.
CANDIOTTI (on camera): Florida's regulatory agency is now under orders to come up with some new rules to keep convicted felons out of the mortgage business. Too late for victims who lost millions and in some cases, their homes.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Melbourne, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Florida's Attorney General, Bill McCollum says the state has made it too easy for convicted felons to regain their civil rights. McCollum wants to keep convicted criminals out of the mortgage or lending industry for at least seven years after they leave prison.
Well, a federal court refuses to overturn the convictions of two former Border Patrol agents, the decision raising serious questions about why these two men remain behind bars. We'll have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Susan Roesgen at the CNN Center in Atlanta. We'll be back to LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK in a moment but now in the news.
Senator Barack Obama has dropped his opposition to limited offshore oil drilling. Senator Obama says he's willing to compromise in order to get a long-term commitment to renewable energy sources.
Senator John McCain supports expanded offshore drilling. He reversed his opposition back in June.
Syrian president Bashar al-Assad arrives in Iran for talks expected to touch on Iran's nuclear program. Today is the informal U.N. deadline for Iran to respond to an offer from other nations, offering to delay another round of sanctions in exchange for a freeze on uranium enrichment.
The government says it has underestimated the AIDS epidemic in this country for the last 12 years. Better tests and new statistical methods show that there were more than 56,000 new HIV infections in 2006. Much higher than the CDC's previous estimate of about 40,000 new cases annually.
I'm Susan Roesgen. Now become to LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK: News, debate, and opinion, and independent view. Here again: Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean tonight are still behind bars. Now an appeals court on Monday refused to throw out the most serious charges against them. The court, however, did reverse their convictions on obstruction of justice and that decision raises serious new questions about why the two men remain in prison at all.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Texas U.S. attorney, Johnny Sutton, who oversaw the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean, testified before a hostile Senate committee last year. He said if the agents had not covered up the shooting of Mexican national Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, an illegal alien drug smugglers, Ramos and Compean would have probably not have received 11 and 12-year federal prison sentences.
JOHNNY SUTTON, U.S. ATTORNEY, WESTERN DIST. TEXAS: The reason all of this mess happened is because agent Compean and Ramos shot an unarmed guy running away and covered it up. If they hadn't done that, they'd still be out on the line doing their job, and even if they told us there was a bad shot, you know, we don't know where we'd be. They probably still would be OK.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Monday the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals threw out the agent's convictions for tampering with an official proceeding. It ruled that a border patrol internal investigation of alleged employee misconduct is not an official proceeding. But it upheld the convictions for using a firearm during the commission of a violent crime, which carries a ten-year mandatory minimum sentence. Some lawmakers say Congress never intended the gun charge to be used to prosecute law enforcement officers performing their official duties.
REP. DANA ROCHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: This case was so obviously a miscarriage of justice that it can shake people's faith in our system.
WIAN: The agents remain in prison even though two of three appellate judges criticize the government's prosecution of the case during a hearing in December. The men's labor union says it's disappointed by the court's decision.
T.J. BONNER, PRES. NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: To have such a dramatic reversal in this decision, where they essentially buy into Johnny Sutton's argument that it was heard before a jury and they had a fair trial, and therefore, it stands, is just very perplexing.
WIAN: Attorneys for Ramos and Compean plan to ask for a re-hearing by the three appellate judges in a so-called en banc review by all 21 Fifth Circuit judges.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Ramos's attorney David (Botsford) tells "Lou Dobbs Tonight," he plans to file a motion for a new trial because prosecutors instructed jurors to give priority to the obstruction of justice charges which have been now thrown out. If those appeals fail, attorneys can then appeal to the Supreme Court. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN HOST: A rising number of congressmen tonight are calling on President Bush to commute the sentences of Ramos and Compean. Three of those congressmen, Ted Poe and John Culberson, both from Texas, and Walter Jones of North Carolina, told Lou what went wrong and why the two former agents are still in prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: The justice system did not work in this case. These appellate judges just seven months ago in December 3rd, two of them raked the U.S. attorney's office over the coals for prosecuting this case. But they've had a change of heart. They've upheld the conviction and it's very unfortunate because justice, as you have said, has not been served in this case at all.
REP. JOHN CULBERSON (R), TEXAS: And this case illustrates and encapsulates, in fact, Lou, all of the problems with our border security. There's an obsession by this administration to pander to Mexico. These agents were prosecuted to make an example of them and now the obstruction of justice has been thrown out and in fact that really just throws out the entire case because the state of mind of the officer is critical to whether or not they have the right to use their weapon and the jury was not allowed even to be told that the border is dangerous. The jury didn't know that this guy was carrying drugs regularly and the jury did not know that these officers were familiar with this drug smuggler.
LOU DOBBS, CNN HOST: But, congressmen, we wouldn't want this to be a referendum on the very witness that the prosecution put forward to impugn the integrity of both of these law enforcement agents. That wouldn't be justice in the minds of this perverted appellate court.
POE: Well, they're obviously wrong because the credibility of the witness is important in any case especially when you make a deal with the witness and give them all kinds of benefits, the jury should know everything that took place. He's a suspect witness to begin with and hiding the truth from the jury is really a miscarriage of justice.
REP. WALTER JONES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Lou, let me say along with my colleagues here and I, we are not going to let this go.
CULBERSON: That's right.
JONES: We have just begun to fight and let me remind you, that these two men join me with other members of Congress to ask that the office of professional responsibility look into Johnny Sutton, and what he's done to these two men and their families. It is absolutely unacceptable, they should never have been indicted.
DOBBS: Well, I think we can all agree on upon that as we look at Johnny Sutton there, but here's the reality. I mean, this is Texas justice, is the expression, I've heard, in years past. And unfortunately, two former law enforcement officers are being taken to task and frankly I'd say it's just having its nose rubbed in it and your president, folks, he's also from Texas, and I got to say, he is not only - I think disappointed a nation, is he an embarrassment to this country on every level.
CULBERSON: Every American understands that when the drug dealer goes free and sues us and the law enforcement officers sworn to protect this nation go to jail, something is terribly wrong with border security. And Walter is exactly right, Ted, Walter and I are going to be leading the charge in Congress and we're going to use every legislative tool at our disposal to attempt to get these men out of prison.
DOBBS: Do you really believe there's any chance, gentlemen, in the world that a president that has been this obtuse, this flat-out ignorant, and this absolutely irresponsible, to put it in the kindest words possible, to prosecute two law enforcement officers, like Ramos and Compean, that he would, in any - through some miracle, find integrity and concern and a sense of justice?
POE: We're asking him to commute the sentences, not pardon them. It's bipartisan. We have many democrats that are asking him to commute these sentences. They can, the defendants both can go through the appellate process again but it shows overall, Lou, that our government is on the wrong side of the border war when it relentlessly prosecutes border agents and lets the drug dealers go free.
JONES: Lou, let me say real quickly, that you're exactly right. I hope the American people feel your outrage, our outrage and let the President know by calling the White House and say this is unacceptable, this is an injustice and Mr. President, if you can Scooter Libby out, do something about this situation.
CULBERSON: And chairman Bill Delihan of Massachusetts, a democrat, has a resolution which we have all co-authored and we're going to lead a bipartisan effort in Congress to pass a resolution demanding that Ramos and Compean have their sentences commuted for the same reason that Scooter Libby got his sentence commuted.
DOBBS: My job here is to be as straightforward and honest as I possibly can be. And I've got to remind everybody this may be bipartisan but there are only a handful of democrats who have signed on or expressed any concern. This is, I respect and appreciate and know the families appreciate everything you're doing, but I got to say, anyone seeking justice at this hour in this case, you got to have a lot more faith than I do. I appreciate it, gentlemen.
POE: Thank you.
CULBERSON: Thank you, Lou.
JONES: We'll never give up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Open borders, amnesty agenda proponents continue to demand what they call justice for illegal aliens. Congressman Luis Gutierrez, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The Congressional Hispanic Caucus is demanding federal immigration officials end workplace enforcement raids. It wants the President and Congress to move forward on so-called immigration reform, or amnesty. Now, Congressmen Luis Gutierrez and other members of the caucus recently visited the site of a raid on a meat processing plant in Iowa. Congressman Gutierrez told Lou that the workers in Iowa were the victims, not criminals and that employers are the ones who are breaking the law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: We're not saying they shouldn't follow the law, Lou. What we're saying is we need comprehensive immigration reform. We should take all of the ingredients if we're going to be successful in enforcing our workplace law. And Lou, isn't it interesting that we heard testimony from over a dozen teen teenagers who were working at this plant. I met a man who lost his hand. We met women who were abused sexually, sexually abused at the plant. They weren't paying them overtime, unsafe working conditions and yet, the federal government indicted 393 undocumented workers there, but what happened to the owners that were exploiting these workers and indeed exploiting all of us?
DOBBS: And I think that's a very good question, what happened?
GUTIERREZ: Nothing. Nothing happened to them, Lou. What they did is took 393 people, and they accused them of aggravated identity theft. Here's the interesting part of what our government did. 125 of those social security numbers didn't exist, Lou, simply made up, and they weren't attached to a name because you can attach any name to any social security number. Actually they were sold, per testimony we heard by people at the meat packing plant so the people can come and work there. So, number one, how can you steal somebody's identity if it doesn't exist and the other thing, Lou, is you're going to steal somebody's identity, shouldn't the name and social security number and all of the information be the same? That isn't what happened.
Surely people were working there undocumented in this plant as you suggest, and you use the word illegally at the plant. But Lou, I don't want to exaggerate. I met at least 35 women with children who are wearing these tracking devices, black ankle bracelets. Who is going to feed them? Lou, they don't have a court date until next January. Why are we treating them in such a dehumanizing fashion?
DOBBS: Well, I think that's an absolutely fair question. (NO SIGNAL)
GUTIERREZ: We did it. We took career criminal prosecutors and they indicted people for things they know they hadn't done. We shouldn't use corrupt tactics against people -
DOBBS: Corrupt?
GUTIERREZ: Yes, they are. Lou, when a prosecutor accuses of something that he has absolutely -
DOBBS: You're sitting in that chair you don't want the law enforced until a new law is created.
GUTIERREZ: I say that our immigration system is broken.
DOBBS: You're telling us nothing.
GUTIERREZ: And until we fix our immigration system in a comprehensive, otherwise Lou what we have is we have about 90 women running around with a bracelet, just in these deplorable conditions, they can't work. We don't deport them.
DOBBS: Congressman, they're not dehumanizing them.
GUTIERREZ: Yes. That's what they're doing to them.
DOBBS: No, no, no.
GUTIERREZ: Lou, the kids go to school and the other kids make fun of them and say your mom is a criminal as though they were a rapist, a drug dealer, some kind of a thief. They were working without documentation in this country, even the, even I.C.E. according to the press conference -
DOBBS: I got to get a word in.
GUTIERREZ: Well Lou, you know something, we're such great friends I figured I could talk for a little while.
DOBBS: You talk for a little while longer. My turn?
GUTIERREZ: Sure, Lou.
DOBBS: OK. Why? If we're worried about dehumanizing people, is this government not insisting that Mexico first behave like a nation, a sovereign nation with respect for not only our borders but its own and for its own people, and why does this nation not have a mature and responsible foreign policy toward Mexico that requires it. First of all, to honor its people and secondly, through our aid and our foreign policy, supports their people in Mexico? Why, if we're worried about dehumanizing people? Do we tolerate this nonsense in which we allow an entire hemisphere in point of fact, but first, Mexico, to send people here impoverished for a better life, and create great difficulties for both countries? If you're really concerned about dehumanizing people.
GUTIERREZ: Well, Lou, I think that's unfair to say, to ask if I'm really concerned. I think I am really concerned.
DOBBS: Well, I don't mean to question your sincerity. My question is, why not put it in the first priority?
GUTIERREZ: Can I say the following, I think it's our joint responsibility. I think it's a hemispheric responsibility to deal with our immigration law. I have been a proponent of e-verify of making sure we have sufficient border patrol in but I know until - look, Lou, the fact is we share a border between a third, fourth country and a first world country. The largest border in the world between two societies -
DOBBS: Understood.
GUTIERREZ: ...one impoverished and one doing well. That is the reality of what we have. So I join you, because you know, in 1993, I voted against the North American Fair Trade Agreement because I said what it's going to do is impoverish Mexican workers even more and American worker, it's going to make corporate America richer and that's what's happened. Let's stop making corporate America make the dollars off of the back of American workers and off the back of workers in its totality.
DOBBS: Luis Gutierrez, we will conclude there with I think at least marginal agreement.
GUTIERREZ: Thank you. We still got to get together, Lou.
DOBBS: You got a deal. GUTIERREZ: OK.
DOBBS: Good to have you here.
GUTIERREZ: All right. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The race card is now the hot topic in the presidential election, but shouldn't the candidate be focusing on issues that impact America's middle class? We'll find out, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Well, joining me now are three of the best political analysts in the country, and CNN contributor and republican strategist Ed Rollins. And Ed served as White House political director under President Reagan. He recently chaired Mike Huckabee's presidential campaign. We're also joined by "New York Daily News" columnist Errol Louis, and Errol is also the host of the morning show on WWRL in New York City. And we're joined by democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf.
And gentlemen thanks for being with me. You know, this week a lot of attention paid to the remarks about playing the race card now. Senator McCain accused the Obama campaign of playing the race card, and here's what Senator Obama said earlier, so we'll start with that quote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And so the only way they figure they're going to win this election is if they make you scared of me. So what they're saying is, well, we know we're not very good but you can't risk electing Obama. Now, he's new, he's, doesn't look like the other presidents on the currency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: It's almost a throw-away line and yet it drew such attention. Hank, thoughts on this?
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good move on Obama's part, get the race issue out front. He shows up, he's black. Let's get used to it. Trying to put the republicans on the outs. That's a move to get suburban voters who are very, very sensitive to those kinds of arguments. Pretty good. The McCain response, not so genius-like.
PILGRIM: All right. Well, you know, there was a good bit of discussion whether this was the first time the race card had been played in the campaign and some suggests that perhaps not, there has been, you know, a sort of discussion under way throughout the whole campaign about race. Why make such a big deal about a throw-away line at a rally?
ERROL LOUIS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: One part as far of is as far as I can tell, it's the strategy of the McCain campaign to have us talk about this, this weekend and not the fact, for example, when the fund- raising numbers come out he'll probably have fallen further behind Obama when it comes to fund-raising. You know, to sort of try to get back into it. He just took a six or seven-day beating, where Obama was running all over the world and dominating every news cycle, so I see this as McCain's chance or opportunity or attempt to sort of just get back into the race, to sort of control some of the debate, to try to throw a little bit of shade on the bright light that's been shining on Obama lately.
PILGRIM: And well, there's been comments about him being a celebrity. There's been a real, a lot of sniping at his image. You know, CNN's John King did ask McCain if it was right for his campaign to do this. Let's listen to what John McCain's campaign or John McCain had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is, I'm sorry to say, that it is. It's legitimate, and we don't, there's no place in this campaign for that. There's no place for it, and we shouldn't be doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Ed, that's very grave comments.
ED ROLLINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, in one sense the straight talker is not being such a straight talker and I think to a certain extent, how Barack described the campaign is exactly right. They're going to make Obama the bad guy. For some reason they don't believe enough in their own candidate to promote him as a significant leader and I think to a certain extent he's got great qualities in a time like this. It's not just about Obama it's about McCain. He rises to the occasion in which McCain is going to be put forward. I think everybody thinks that race is in the race whether it really is or not. I think the more it gets raised, the less it may be involved long-term, but I think to a certain extent, this was not a good week for him to campaign.
PILGRIM: You know Obama also late in the week was heckled by some people at a rally, who held up a sign that said "what about the black community, Obama?" This discussion of race is really going into many venues now. It was kind of a surprise to see that at a rally for Obama because they've been really celebratory all along and thoughts on this negative crowds now at Obama rally?
SHEINKOPF: Look, when you're that far up front, when you're that public, people are going to pay attention. But the McCain campaign is trying to use race and his background to create an anti-elitist argument to try to get the people that have voted against those kinds of leads in the past to vote against Obama. That's what they're really up to. Can they get away with it? I'm not sure. This guy is a lot different.
PILGRIM: All right. We'll hold it right there. We'll be right back in second. The nation's unemployment rate rises to a four-year high now. Is there any help ahead for our struggling middle class? Next, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: We're back with Ed Rollins, Errol Louis and Hank Sheinkopf. Let's look at some poll numbers on the two campaigns and they're really interesting. They are very close. The first one we have is with registered voters and we see that Obama is at 47 percent, McCain at 44 percent, very tight, but then when you take it to likely voters, we have a bit of a reversal and we have McCain at 49 percent, Obama at 45 percent. Now, we were talking in the commercial break about the McCain campaign, and how many missteps they've made and yet, it's very, very tight.
ROLLISN: It's a very close race and other polls have it even closer. I haven't seen many with McCain ahead but it's a dead even race and each candidate, I think, has their base, 41 percent, 42 percent on each side. They really haven't drawn the independents to one side or the other in a permanent way. The McCain's campaign problem is you have a candidate out there who is very undisciplined who wants to do what he wants to do each day, which is to stand up and answer a bunch of questions. And he has some smart people whoa are trying to get him on a message consistent with the ads and everything else and they have an ad campaign, they have a consistent message. He has an inconsistent message and I think to a certain extent the other campaign is running a brilliant campaign, still a dead even race.
PILGRIM: Should they be saying to him, stick to script?
ROLLINS; He can't stick to script. I mean, he just can't. I mean they tried to put him on script and some candidates just, and you don't change 70 plus-year-old men. You know, he's not tested and he won't take the time to learn how to do a teleprompter and the kind of things you need to do.
LOUIS: And he literally won't stay on script. There have been a few segments that show him struggling with the teleprompter. You know and he does like to sort of speak ex-temporaneously and it's really where he's most comfortable. So, you get these trade-offs. You have him look stiff and awkward and trying to give the message of the day or you can have him kind of freelancing and as Ed says there's some drawbacks to that.
SHEINKOPF: This is about war. People who do this business are warriors. When you get in the boxing ring and open the cut you keep opening and opening until the other guy gets knocked down. McCain doesn't have it. And you get the sense in that campaign that somehow they suspect this election will be moved to November, 2009 or December, 2008. It's not going to happen that way. There's no urgency. The things they're doing don't resonate. They can't get the public emotionally engaged. That is the difference here.
PILGRIM: Well, you know, the one way to get the public emotionally engaged is on the economy. And I think that we would all agree that this is one of the number one concerns for American voters and yet you don't see it very much being discussed about the economy. We have new numbers out on Friday, unemployment reached a four-year high, 5.7 percent. Shouldn't the candidates be taking this on as the way to connect to voters, and isn't this the way to sort of look to the future, also, because it seems the most positive way, Errol?
LOUIS: You know, it's peculiar. For McCain it's not his strength. He said it himself, his strength is foreign policy. He wants to sort of really pitch his campaign in that direction. So it doesn't make sense for him to try and dive in and it doesn't make that much sense frankly for Obama. Because even though the democrats sort of, you know, they own a lot of these issues like social security and they have a pretty good program and they have a consistent position on rolling back the tax cuts and so forth, he's really trying to run on the symbolic level about hope and about change. And so if he gets down into sort of going down this menu, this checklist of policy options which people may or may not like he starts to sound like Hillary Clinton whom he defeated. So I don't think we're going to get that much talk. It's going to be to the press, I think, to force these issues on to the agenda.
PILGRIM: But it seems the Clinton campaign, one of the successes was to connect to people on this level.
ROLLINS: The difference is, one is running on the charm. I'm charming, I'm different, I'm for change. The other is I'm courageous, I'm tough, I'll make the tough decisions. Neither of them has the vision. What the country is looking for desperately is a vision. Who has a plan to help move us out of this game and the problem is neither can put forth an economic plan that doesn't alienate some particular political base and I think they're both afraid of it.
SHEINKOPF: Government bipole and campaign bipoles generally have the same result, stagnation.
PILGRIM: All right. Thank you very much, gentlemen. We sorted that out. Ed Rollins, Hank Sheinkopf, Errol Louis, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Please join us tomorrow and remember to join Lou on the radio Monday through Fridays, the "Lou Dobbs Show." Go to loudobbsradio.com for the local listings for the "Lou Dobbs Show" on the radio. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York.
