Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs This Week
English-Only School; Tight Presidential Race; Russia-Georgia Conflict
Aired August 17, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Tonight, America's culture war. Three Hispanic families filing a lawsuit, claiming an English only policy at a Catholic school is a violation of their children's civil rights. We'll have coverage.
And tonight, Senators Obama and McCain in a very close race. Obama fails to break away in the polls. We'll tell you all about that. And much more from an independent perspective straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK. News, debate, and opinion. Here now, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody. The United States tonight appears powerless to prevent Russia's aggression against Georgia. President Bush demanding Moscow stop what he calls its bullying and intimidation of Georgia. The president saying Russian must respect Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity. But Russian leaders are ignoring President Bush. They're raising the possibility, in fact, that Georgia's breakaway regions could be granted independence.
Elaine Quijano has our report from the White House. Elaine?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lou, President Bush has steadily sharpened his rhetoric over the past few days amid criticisms that the United States' response to the Georgia conflict has been weak and ineffectual. Now the president has said the cold war is over, and that a contentious relationship between the United States and Russia is in neither country's interest.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is fresh off a trip to Georgia, a former Soviet Republic, where she delivered a cease-fire agreement brokered by France's president. Now Rice is at the president's ranch in Crawford, Texas, briefing him this weekend. For his part before he left Washington, President Bush said the U.S. would not cast aside Georgia. And he also again had some pointed words for Moscow.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For its actions in recent days, Russia has damaged its credibility and its relations with the nations of the free world. Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.
QUIJANO: But even aides to President Bush concede that Russia may not care about its standing in the world, raising the question what real leverage does the United States have in influencing Russia's behavior. Lou?
DOBBS: Thank you, Elaine. Elaine Quijano from the White House.
Russia's aggression against Georgia raising concerns Moscow may use force against other countries in the region. The leaders of several East European nations traveling to Tblisi, showing support for the Georgian government and people.
Jill Dougherty with our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The image was striking, the president of Georgia, his nation reeling from the military incursion by Russian troops stands defiantly on the main square in the capitol Tbilisi, calling on the world to defend his country. At his side, the leaders of four former Soviet republics -- Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and the former Soviet block nation of Poland, who have had their own run ins with Moscow.
IVARS GOODMANIS, LATVIAN PRIME MINISTER: You Georgians, stay united. United, you win.
DOUGHERTY: But Georgia's army was no match for Russian forces, in spite of a vastly increased Georgian military budget and training by U.S. military advisers. And some of Russia's smaller neighbors are drawing big conclusions from Russia's victory. Could Moscow try to do the same thing to them? The U.S. Defense Secretary is stoking that fire.
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think that the Russians' further message was to all of the parts of the former Soviet Union as a signal about trying to integrate with the West and move outside of the long- time Russian sphere of influence.
DOUGHERTY: Moscow scoffs at that idea.
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We have no plans to throw down any leadership. That is not part of our culture, part of our foreign policy. It is not what we do.
DOUGHERTY: As Russia's Black Sea fleet deploys off the coast of Georgia, Ukraine's President Victor Ushenko (ph) issues restrictions on those Russian ships, which operate out of the base in Ukraine's Crimea. Moscow says it will ignore that order.
Poland, after months of tough negotiations with the U.S. over Washington's proposal to install a missile defense system in that country, suddenly agrees. The deal includes a pledge by the U.S. to quickly come to the aid of Poland in case of attack.
Moscow is furious, claiming the speed with which the agreement came together is proof the missile system is aimed at Russia, not as Iran as the U.S. insists.
(on camera): Russia insists it has limited objectives in the Georgian conflict, to protect the Russian peacekeepers and protect Russian citizens, that it has no desire to reassert control over its former republics, much less reconstitute the Soviet Union.
(voice-over): But the men who stood by the Georgian president in Tbilisi this week are drawing broader conclusions and taking actions that in turn threaten to increase tensions between Russia and the West.
Jill Dougherty, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Senator McCain this week repeatedly criticizing Russia for its aggression against Georgia. McCain calling for a complete re- evaluation of the U.S. relationship with Moscow. He said Russia's trying to reassert its imperial ambitions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My friends, we have reached a crisis -- the first probably serious crisis internationally since the end of the Cold War. This is an act of aggression. And historians and time will tell us how provoked it was, or what actions the Georgian government took, etcetera. But the fact is that this aggression is far exceeding any provocation that might have been inflicted on South Ossetia or Obskya (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: McCain hammering Russia. Senator Obama vacationing on. Obama making only one public statement in Hawaii, critical of Russia at the beginning of the week. Later, as Moscow continued its aggression, Obama issued a new statement, but on paper.
Obama saying "Russia must not use this moment to consolidate a position that violates Georgia's territorial integrity, or to violate the human rights of the people of Georgia."
While Obama vacationed in Hawaii, Obama and Clinton staffers agreed to place Senator Clinton's name in nomination for a roll call vote at the Democratic National Convention. It's a decision that is supposed to be uniting the party. But as Bill Schneider now reports, that strategy could well backfire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I happen to believe that...
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hillary Clinton says her supporters are looking for catharsis at the convention.
CLINTON: We do not want any Democrat either in the hall or in the stadium or at home walking away, saying, you know, I'm just not satisfied. I'm not happy.
SCHNEIDER: Clinton's name will be placed into nomination. And her delegates will have the opportunity to vote for her. KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLLING DIRECTOR: The Obama campaign and the Clinton folks put out a joint statement on this, which makes it seems like they've struck some sort of a peace deal.
SCHNEIDER: Will the vote make the party look united or divided?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: If Hillary Clinton's name is called, and she walks to the stage, or we hear some kind of a roll call, and we have Barack Obama supporters booing, that is not what the Democratic party needs.
SCHNEIDER: If the Florida and Michigan delegations have their full votes restored, something Obama now says he favors, and if the superdelegates hold fast for Obama, Clinton should get about 37 percent of the votes. That's why superdelegates were created.
HOLLAND: To make sure that the pledged delegates, the regular delegates had some sort of adult supervision.
PRESTON: Clinton will have the chance to get to the stage and to tell all of her supporters, thank you for helping me make all those cracks in the glass ceiling that's above our heads. We almost made it, but guess what? Barack Obama's our nominee. Let's get behind Barack Obama.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): If this is a showdown, it's really a scripted showdown, just like in the movies. And we know how it's supposed to end.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Des Moines, Iowa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Still ahead, seven years after September 11th, our ports and borders remain unsecured. We'll have that special report.
Mexico's out-of-control wars against its violent drug cartels and murderous gangs goes on. Police, children, victims. That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A new Congressional report further confirms what we've been reporting to you here for years, that our ports remain wide open to terrorists and drug traffickers. The Government Accountability Office reporting that drug cartels are now exploiting gaping holes in port security, as well as border security. And the fact remains that seven years after September 11th, less than 5 percent of all cargo entering this country is actually inspected. Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Customs agents confiscated a huge stash of drugs last month at the Miami port, 1,700 pounds of marijuana smuggled on a cargo ship from Aruba, a street value of $3 million. HAROLD WOODWARD, CUSTOMS & BORDER PROTECTION: They focused on some containers that were brought in recently, made sure that we did a physical exam.
SYLVESTER: But according to a General Accounting Office report, many more shipments of drugs get through U.S. ports. Up to a thousand metric tons of cocaine are believed to be smuggled into the United States every year from places like Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean countries. But the Department of Homeland Security could be doing more to keep drugs out of the United States, says the GAO. DHS has a program called the Container Security Initiative, that screens for weapons of mass destruction, the same technology could be used to search for drugs.
But according to the GAO, "DHS has not routinely used its program of targeting and scanning cargo containers overseas to detect illicit drugs." One Homeland Security analyst says it is a tool that should be utilized.
JAMES JAY CARAFANO, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Container Security Initiative, in conjunction with intelligence sharing and in conjunction with good investigations to kind of run the network to ground, that's the best way to deal with the drug smugglers.
SYLVESTER: Congressional lawmakers are criticizing DHS for not doing more to protect the homeland. Representative Duncan Hunter in a statement saying, "The reluctance of DHS to screen cargo containers for illegal narcotics, when it already possesses the technology to do so, presents an enormous challenge to our counter narcotics efforts. We must effectively utilize the resources we have.
(on camera): The GAO in its report recommends that the Department of Homeland Security do a review to see how feasible it would be to expand the Container Security Initiative to scan cargo for illicit drugs. But that request was turned down. DHS says the initiative was intentionally created to address weapons of mass destruction and that to broaden the program would be inconsistent with its mandate to secure the international supply chain from a potential risk of terrorism. In other words, Lou, they are saying that they can't do the two things at the same time. Lou?
DOBBS: And there are 22 agencies, just about $40 billion budget. And they are incapable of providing either security for our borders, our ports, fighting an effective battle against illegal drug traffickers. I mean, the failures of the Department of Homeland Security will be one, I think of many legacies of this president. Thank you very much. Appreciate it, Lisa Sylvester.
Mexico's deadly drug cartel violence is raging. Six more Mexican police officers were shot and killed. The victims include two top Mexican police commanders, killed just south of El Paso. Law enforcement agencies on this side of the border are on heightened alert and deeply concerned.
Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The death toll among law enforcement officers has now topped 500 in Mexico's nearly two-year military offensive against drug cartels. A parallel threat is escalating. Kidnapping gangs so brazen they recently abducted the teenage son of a wealthy businessman in broad daylight on this street. He was later killed, despite the reported payment of a multimillion dollar ransom. Two police officers are among the suspects.
This week, President Felipe Calderon addressed Mexico's growing public outrage over police involvement with drug cartels and kidnapping gangs.
FELIPE CALDERON, PRESIDENT, MEXICO: Society demands that we fulfill our duty to stop police corruption. Because of this, for example, it's fundamental that in our effort to increase security and legality, we purge, modernize, and ensure all our police forces are professional, federal, state and local.
WIAN: But through the first four months of this year, kidnappings are up 76 percent compared to last year when nearly 800 Mexicans were held for ransom.
JUAN FRANCISCO TORRES LANDA, MEXICANS UNITED AGAINST CRIME: Of 100 crimes, about one or two are effectively prosecuted. So the perception out in the streets for both criminals and the society as a whole is that it really pays to, you know, to commit crimes.
WIAN: Mexico plans to open five anti-kidnapping units staffed by 300 federal police officers. In Mexico City, officials are offering $50,000 rewards for information leading to the arrest of kidnappers. There's mounting evidence that drug and kidnapping violence are spreading across the border. The U.S. director of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms this week praised Mexico's efforts to fight drug cartels, but said more cooperation is needed.
MICHAEL SULLIVAN, DIRECTOR, ATF: We have come to understand and appreciate a critically important real-time shearing of human intelligence, investigative leads in collaborative investigations efforts.
WIAN: Sullivan says expanded weapons tracing in Mexico has helped U.S. investigators pursue American weapons traffickers who are arming Mexico's drug cartels.
(on camera): But neither government is close to breaking the cycle of drugs heading north and weapons and money going south. In fact, experts expect the violence will continue to escalate on both sides of the border, Lou.
DOBBS: Well, if that is the case, why have experts at all? There are no solutions being offered by either the government of Mexico or the government of the United States?
WIAN: They are - they're doing a little bit, I would say, Lou. You know, the government of the United States has the merit initiative, where it's going to help train Mexican law enforcement and military to fight the drug cartels. The Mexican government is cooperating more with the United States in terms of helping tracking down the arms traffickers and tracking down the drug dealers. But the cooperation is not where both sides would like it to be, Lou.
DOBBS: Yes, I think we have to take their word for it they would like it that way because neither government is securing the border from either the north or the south. It is wide open. And still about a $25 billion to $40 billion drug trafficking corridor from Mexico into the United States each year. And Mexico remains the principal source of methamphetamines, cocaine, heroin and marijuana. And the United States government is doing absolutely nothing to stop it. Thank you very much, Casey Wian.
The raging violence and threats from the drug cartels in Mexico are forcing more Mexicans, including their police officers, to seek asylum in the United States. U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials tell us that more than 530 people have asked for political asylum at crossings all along our southern border over just the past eight months.
Customs and Immigration officials say 200 Mexican citizens requesting asylum were found to have "credible fear." Their cases are being considered for asylum. The rest were rejected. They will be returned to Mexico.
Up next, bracing for a possible showdown at the Democratic convention. New developments this week. And why globalization threatens our economy and our struggling middle class. Pat Choate, the author of an important new book called "Dangerous Business" will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We report often here on the Bush administration's trade policies and how American workers have just been devastated by so- called free trade policies. Now an important new book by one of the nation's leading economists supports everything I've ever said, I have to tell you that. But he was the first to say it on the issue of free trade. His name is Pat Choate. He is the author of "Dangerous Business, the Risks of Globalization for America." And he joins us now. Good to have you with us.
PAT CHOATE, AUTHOR, "DANGEROUS BUSINESS": It's good being back.
DOBBS: I have to say the book is "Dangerous Business" by Pat Choate as I just said. I can't urge you strongly enough to take a look at what is said. You cover the gamut in here. It's scary. Le me...
CHOATE: Yes.
DOBBS: Let's talk about one of the things that you wrote right off the bat.
CHOATE: Yes.
DOBBS: The globalization policies on this issue -- I'd like to put this up so every body could see it, if you would, "The globalization policies of Presidents George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush collectively constitute the worse economic policy mistake in American history."
So it doesn't really matter if they're Democrats or Republicans, what they are?
CHOATE: Same thing. This is elite opinion that has been driving our trade policies. We have had since 1995, $5.8 trillion cumulative trade deficits. This is the largest unilateral transfer of trade wealth in the world. We're now only transferring wealth, we're transferring jobs. We're transferring our defense industrial...
DOBBS: Where are we transferring that to?
CHOATE: It is going to Mexico, to China, to Japan, to Europe, to the rest of the world.
DOBBS: If anyone wants to see what globalization is -- and I don't think many of us need too much instruction -- if you had the opportunity to watch NBC's presentation of the Olympics from Beijing, where that massive production, and you wondered where all of that came from, all of the technology, the immense construction, the expansiveness of the whole project, where all that money came from and the fact that not one of those announcers could find anything communist about China at the same time because they wanted to remain in Beijing for the duration of the Olympics, that looked a lot like globalization, doesn't it?
CHOATE: It sure does. And you take a look at the Chinese industry, and we talk about the privatization and this and that, but suddenly what you quickly find is all the major Chinese industries, they're state-owned. They're all state-controlled. They're run by an elite in China that understand development. They're out to dominate the world's industries. And that's OK.
I mean, the question is, what should we be doing about it? And that's why I spend a third of this book - I mean, I'm actually reasonably confident that we can overcome all this.
DOBBS: Well, I think that would be the first - you know, you would probably be the first person to ever write that there was any confidence that we could overcome a $6.5 trillion trade debt, $9.5 trillion national debt, expanding unfunded liabilities on the part of the Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. How do we do it in less than a minute?
CHOATE: Well, the first thing that we've got to recognize is the next president is going to have a unique opportunity. It's going to be much as FDR was when he came in running against Hoover economics.
DOBBS: Right.
CHOATE: The second thing is Doha trade ground has failed.
DOBBS: Amen. CHOATE: The Chinese and Indians killed it. We have a blank slate here. The next president can rewrite these trade agreements if it's just got the courage and just go the wisdom. And I...
DOBBS: Do you think either of these two men has either the courage, the capacity or, frankly, the insight to do just that?
CHOATE: We can't know. The truth is, the way we run our political campaigns, we really cannot tell whether they're competent. We're buying a leap of faith with both candidates.
The one thing that is certain, when you take a look at numbers with the American people, economy and jobs is the issue. The candidate that gets right with the American people on economy and jobs will be the next president.
DOBBS: You heard it from Pat Choate. He's the author of "Dangerous Business." Go out and buy that book. It is really a necessary education for everyone. It's terrific. Thank you very much, Pat, for being with us.
CHOATE: Good being with you.
DOBBS: Much success with the book.
CHOATE: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Up next, Congress threatens to shut down the government, but would that be such a bad idea? I'll be talking with three of the sharpest political minds in the country next.
And parochial schools at the center of a culture war. Is it too much to ask students in America to speak English? That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the country's top political analysts and CNN contributors, syndicated columnist Diana West, "New York Daily News" columnist Errol Louis. Errol also host of WWRL's morning show here in New York City, and Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf.
Thank you all for being here. Let's start Hank with the Russian invasion of Georgia. Where has Senator Barack Obama been?
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Where has everyone been, Lou? Barack Obama has nothing new to say about it, and is not talking certainly about United States interest or protecting them, which is really what's at risk. Condoleezza Rice went to Georgia this past week. Why? And where was she before? In other words, no one's anyplace. They have nothing new to say. And John McCain, well, where is he, too? DOBBS: Well, John McCain, at least, according to Mikhakhail Saakashvili, has been talking with him several times a day throughout this entire episode. I think a lot of people, including myself I will say, was surprised that, you know, that level of engagement. He has been in front of the cameras. And Barack Obama has been playing golf and taking certainly a well-deserved vacation. But with circumstances changing on a world stage, one would have expected a different political reaction from his campaign.
SHEINKOPF: Well, the facts are Lou, don't make trouble if you don't have to. Don't say something that might appear to be even defensive United States defense foreign policy or defense policy because the young people that brought you the game might not like it. And that's really what's going on here.
DOBBS: Errol, do you agree?
ERROL LOUIS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, I wouldn't jump into that quagmire for any reason. I mean, he didn't create the mess. He didn't join either side of the mess. And let's keep in mind again that John McCain is not just - not a wholly owned subsidiary of the Georgian government, but his top policy advisor, was paid by the Georgian government, a handsome sum of money over many years to lobby on behalf of that faction in this conflict. And so, why get involved? He looks like a Republican mess to me. If I were a Democrat, I'd stay out.
DOBBS: OK, let's call it a Republican mess. Let's call it whatever you want. Why is he running for president because every mess he's got to clean up won't have been his, whether it be the economy, where it be Iraq, whether it be Afghanistan, whether it be the war on terror.
SHEINKOPF: No, but I mean, clearly, he's damned if he does...
LOUIS: I don't think -- he's damned if he doesn't. If he starts running to every rock slide and forest fire, and foreign policy fiasco, and try to act as president before, you know, 10 days...
DOBBS: You mean as he did on this trip to Europe and the Middle East?
LOUIS: Precisely for which he was criticized somewhat justly.
DOBBS: Diana West?
DIANA WEST, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I'm listening to this. And I -- gentlemen, I'm amazed. This is not just a forest fire or a rockslide. This is a global crisis involving all kinds of various spheres of influence, power struggles, Europe, the Middle East, oil supplies, American prestige, all of these things. We want to hear what Barack Obama would have to say about it.
And I think for a man so concerned with photographs, the photographs of him on a golf course are not leaving exactly the best indelible impression. John McCain, like it or not, he is engaged in this situation. I - you know, I think that we've all said all along that with foreign policy crises in a broad brush way, they do resound to John McCain's benefit in terms of his experience and you know, life biography.
DOBBS: Yes, I think it's interesting what these polls will show us, if anything, come Monday and Tuesday of next week. Let's turn to Jerome Corsi's new book "Obama Nation," which I think has to get marks for certainly an intriguing title. But also this pure, absolutely driven book that is a political attack book is debuting number one on "The New York Times" bestseller list. Diana, what do you make of that?
WEST: I think people are hungry to know something about Barack Obama. I frankly have not read the book yet. I've only read the commentary about the book. I've seen it attacked on the front page of "The New York Times," the front page of "The Washington Post." But I haven't really gotten a "where's the beef" kind of moment in terms of what is factually incorrect. So I'm very eager to see it, but I think this has a lot to do with people not having been sufficiently introduced to Barack Obama.
DOBBS: Do you think that's the case, Hank?
SHEINKOPF: I think the problem for Barack Obama is that people are learning too much about him.
DOBBS: Really?
SHEINKOPF: Oh, yes. And they know an awful lot about him. And the more they know, the more those numbers tend to collapse. The more they learn about John McCain, well, they expect less from John McCain. But the savior is supposed to save, not get savaged or give people a reason to be upset. That' the problem here, Lou. They're learning a lot. It's not helping.
DOBBS: Well, not helping. And the campaign waited a number of days to respond. And when they did with a 40-page rebuttal, if you will, a refutation of everything that they responded to in the book. This doesn't have the feeling of a substantive engagement on the part of the campaign on an outright attack. Jerome Corsi, I talked with him, interviewed him. The man makes no secret of the fact that he just does not like Barack Obama and doesn't want him to be president, period.
SHEINKOPF: So what's wrong with that? He's entitled to his opinion.
DOBBS: Oh, I didn't say there's a thing wrong with it.
SHEINKOPF: The campaign's problem is this lingers for 24 to 48 hours with the present news cycle. It lingers too long. They didn't get rid of it fast enough. And by the way, reporters with due respect are not going to sit around going through 40-page documents, take apart each factoid one-by-by to get your side of the story out. You're not going to kill this. This is going to go on.
DOBBS: Do you agree with that?
LOUIS: Yes, it may have. I don't know how long it's going to last. I mean, the factual errors jump off the page. Even a small amount of effort, I think, yields some pretty big whoppers right up front. And it's not just the politically shaded ones. He's just got some things factually wrong, right in his introduction. I mean, it's really kind of startling actually that the editors let this kind of stuff go through. But you know, and it would comes turn hard to have substantive engagement when there's not that much substance, where it's just kind of vitriol.
You know, so the Obama campaign is going to have to figure out a way to get around it. I think the first step is, in fact, to make clear that there's not a lot of substance there.
DOBBS: Well, the first thing it seems to me they should just be listening to Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf. Errol, when the man says the more they learn, the weaker his numbers in polling, that should be saying something they should be responding to rather more than the book itself, don't you agree?
LOUIS: Well, I assume they've got their own positive story to tell, whether it's through a book, or more ads, or whatever channel they're planning to go through. They need to push that button and make it happen.
DOBBS: Do you think there's a sequel to "The Audacity of Hope"? Like "More Audacity, More Hope?"
LOUIS: Well, he doesn't have to write the book. But clearly of the 20 odd books that are out about him, and you know, indicating there is a lot of interest in this man, surely not all of them are attack books of the Corsi variety.
DOBBS: Well, no, but none are selling as well. And none of the many books out about John McCain are selling at all, which is to me intriguing. Do you have an explanation for that, Diana?
WEST: Well, I think just one more thing about the Corsi book. I think that part of it is the public saw a love affair with Barack Obama that has stretched on for years now. And I think that when an attack book like this comes out, there is great interest because people feel like they haven't gotten the story.
On John McCain, I mean, his -- people are very familiar with him.
DOBBS: Right.
WEST: I'm not sure that, you know...
DOBBS: All right.
WEST: ...the interest is there because of that.
DOBBS: We're going to be back with our panel in just a moment. Stay with us.
Next, we're going to find out about what happened to that love affair and why the national media is so upset that Barack Obama isn't doing better in the polls. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We're back with our panel, Diana West, Errol Louis, Hank Sheinkopf. Hank, let me turn to you right now. The Clintons got what they wanted. They're getting a roll call at the Democratic National Convention, could it did any better for them?
SHEINKOPF: Couldn't get any better for them. Barack Obama blinked at the last moment, but they did make a move about Charles Rangel, the chairman of the House, Ways, and Communes Committee when somebody tried to get him on the...
DOBBS: Whoa, but wasn't that a dumb move?
SHEINKOPF: Well, if you want to reform the tax code, you don't beat up the guy or embarrass the guy that has the ability to do it very easily.
DOBBS: Aside from everything else - and I - you know, lots of people have lots of opinions about Charlie Rangel. But I'll give you mine. Mine is this man's a soldier, quite literally and then, you know, he served in Korea. He is a terrific fellow personally. Is he perfect, by no means. But who is? And for the Democrats to take him on because the Obama campaign to take him on because he supported Hillary Clinton and called Barack Obama -- some of his statements "stupid," I mean, that's offensive in itself, isn't it?
LOUIS: Well, you know, the streets of New York are littered with the bleached bones of people who took Charlie Rangel lightly. And he has lived to tell about it. He's been there for upwards of 30 years. None of his opponents have been. So yes, that maybe wasn't the smartest thing.
On the other hand, Obama and I think with Clinton with Rangel with other big power brokers, this is one of the key tests that he has not yet passed, which is this additional role that you have as president of the United States, which is the leader of your party. He has not unified and shown the leadership that -- he hasn't punished where he needed to, he hasn't excluded where he needed to, and embraced where he needed to...
DOBBS: All right.
LOUIS: ...and mollified where he needed to.
DOBBS: Let's assume his campaign is here. My guess is they would be saying, well, that's what we're doing with Charlie Rangel. That's why we've been tough in communicating with Hillary Clinton supporters.
LOUIS: I'd have done it just the opposite. I'd have been tougher on the Clintons and maybe a little easier on one of the congressional barons like Charlie Rangel.
DOBBS: The fact of the matter is they're going to work with Charlie Rangel. They're not going to have to work with Hillary Clinton.
LOUIS: Exactly. DOBBS: Diana, your thoughts?
WEST: It's baffling. I think the whole thing is so fascinating, because what you have to do is ask yourself if Bill and Hillary Clinton, what would they do if they really wanted to see Barack Obama elected president? Would they make the Democratic Convention into a Clinton extravaganza? I don't think so. So I think this whole thing continues simmering along. And who knows?
DOBBS: Well, one of my favorite columnists, Diana said, you know, this -- the fact is in terms of these delegates, the Hillary Clinton supporters are looking at the fact that Hillary Clinton is only 13 points behind Barack Obama now in the roll call. They're probably going to be thinking about how to get those 13 points. By the way, the columnist was our friend, Errol Louis here. So I want to thank you, Errol for that. And I want to thank you, Diana West for joining us. And Hank Sheinkopf as always, thank you.
Coming up next here, a new threat to our national identity tonight over language in our schools and specifically parochial schools. A lawsuit in Kansas claiming to ask students to speak English is a violation of their civil rights.
And Russia ignoring Western demands for a withdrawal from Georgia. I'll be talking with one of the world's leading authorities on Russian world policy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Three Hispanic families tonight are suing the Catholic Diocese of Wichita, Kansas, over an English-only policy. St. Ann's Catholic School requiring that students speak English while they're in school. Incredibly, three Hispanic families claim that is a violation of their civil rights. As Bill Tucker now reports, that case went to trial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): St. Ann's Catholic School of Wichita, Kansas wants English and only English spoken at school. It's a policy that resulted in a 11-year old Adam Silva being expelled from the school. It's also a policy that landed the school and the church in federal court. Three families are suing, alleging that the policy discriminates against those who speak other languages.
CHRISTOPHER MCHUGH, PLAINTIFFS' ATTORNEY: Why would you ban Spanish during lunch and recess? There's no reason for it except that you don't like it. You don't want it spoken.
TUCKER: And as such, their lawyer argues, it constitutes racial discrimination and therefore violates their civil rights. The reason the case is being heard in federal court is that the school receives federal funds. According to the complaint, "St. Ann's Catholic School receives federal funds through the National School Lunch Program. The receipt of federal funds by the school subjects it to the anti- discrimination provisions of federal law."
One official of the diocese says the policy was in response to problems in the school environment, plain and simple.
FRED SOLIS, CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF WICHITA: The issue was a behavioral issue. This young man, whose first language is English. He was born in the U.S., but was using Spanish with a small crowd of friends to speak ill of others, make derogatory comments about others in Spanish so that they wouldn't know what they were saying.
TUCKER: The boy was expelled because he refused to sign a pledge honoring the policy. Supporters of the school are troubled by the lawsuit. They point out that the students who attend St. Ann's do so by choice.
JIM BOULE, ENGLISH FIRST: This is one of those lawsuits that gives lawyers a bad name because it's all about, you know, money for a group of people who didn't have to be there.
TUCKER: All of the families in this case are legal immigrants or American citizens.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: The families are requesting unspecified damages for the emotional anguish and distress suffered by the three students. And they want the school to drop the English-only policy. The ramifications here are potentially huge, Lou, because what it does is it lays the groundwork for making language the basis of racial discrimination suits.
DOBBS: Well, it's an interesting one. And I think it might work both ways. Just to be clear again, this is not a prohibition against specifically Spanish, but an absolute enforcement of English only, correct?
TUCKER: Exactly.
DOBBS: Well, you've got to love lawyers and judges in this country right now. It's a society that's seemingly out of control on a host of fronts, but certainly on this one. Thank you very much, Bill Tucker.
Well, joining me now is William Donahue. He's the president of the Catholic League and a very distinguished scholar and thinker on social issues as well as representing the Catholic League.
Bill, it's good to have you here.
WILLIAM DONAHUE, PRESIDENT, THE CATHOLIC LEAGUE: Thank you for having me, Lou.
DOBBS: No church to my knowledge, has been more supportive of Hispanic immigrants into this country than the Catholic church. And for this tone to be taken between three Hispanic families and the Diocese of Wichita, I mean, that's sort of breathtaking, isn't it?
DONAHUE: Well, it's amazing. You know, this shows you how our society's spun out of control. I mean, you would understand it if schools were being sued for kids who were graduating who weren't proficient in English.
What they're trying to do now is to protect kids. Remember, the reason for doing this wasn't to be malicious. The reason why they invoked this policy was to protect innocent kids from being bullied by someone who was selectively using Spanish.
Now look, a Catholic school is a private institution. You know what you're buying. You can't have somebody coming in there and saying, I want you to rig the strictures because I don't like the way your rules are. You can shop around. You can go down the block to another school, including a public school.
Catholic schools have autonomy. You know what really bothers me about this too, Lou? Two nights ago, I witnessed a hit and run on Long Island. A white girl hit an Hispanic girl. I was able to get the license plate of the guilty party, turned her into the cops, and over to the ambulance crew that came over to help the Hispanic girl. I was facilitating this process precisely because the Latino girl could speak English.
People ought to get their heads straight. I never met a single person in my whole life, I spent four years working in Spanish Harlem with Puerto Rican kids. I love my kids and I love the parents. They all told me they were opposed to bilingual kids -- bilingualism. They wanted their kids to speak only English in the school. That's what they were being educated for, so they could get a job at CNN or some other place. So for these people to come in now and use the club of the law to take away the autonomy of the school, which works again and handicaps their own kids, is amazing to me.
DOBBS: Well, if there's any doubt that we are in the midst of a culture war, and I have tell you I'm one of those people who resists that concept in our society right now, but this is a culture war. And I think we've got to, however reluctantly, acknowledge it.
Because when we can use the federal courts, the federal courts to force the Catholic church not to use what is its prerogative, that is and exercise its rights to enforce discipline in its schools, and not be permitted to use the same federal court system and the federal legal system to bring a prohibition against sanctuary cities, cities that are actually rogues when it comes to enforcement of U.S. law, we're upside-down.
DONAHUE: We not only have a violation of church and state, but the state encroaching on the Catholic church here, but the more important issue is this. If I was - if I wanted to handicap Latinos in this country, you know what I would do? I would say let's not have English only in the schools. Speak whatever you want. And then when you go for a job, and you don't get it, well, that's just too bad. Because this country is not going to change when it comes to hiring. I have Latinos working for me in the at the Catholic League. Every one of them interviewed in English. That's the way it has to be.
DOBBS: And it's straightforward. But there's just one problem. In Washington, D.C., the Democratic and Republican parties are serving masters on either the left or the right, either the rapacious right of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Or what would you call them?
DONAHUE: The multi-cultural left.
DOBBS: Yes, the -- who want really us to change the language of this nation, change our laws, change our rules, and completely forget 200 years of history and ideals and values that have made this liberal society available to them.
DONAHUE: And which hurts the minorities most of all. That's the most disgusting thing about this.
DOBBS: Well, and there's so much disgusting, it's hard to pick one out. But Bill, I appreciate you being here. It's going to be interesting to see this one.
DONAHUE: We'll watch it closely.
DOBBS: You got it. Come back soon.
DONAHUE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, Russia ignores U.S. demands to stop its bullying and intimidation of Georgia. We'll hear from one of the world's most foremost authorities on Russian foreign policy next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Georgia's government tonight says Russian troops control at least a third of the nation. Russia still ignores demands by President Bush that Russia respect Georgia's sovereignty.
Professor Michael Mcfaul is one of the world's leading authorities on Russia, professor of Political Science at Stanford University. He joins me here tonight. We thank you for being with us, professor.
MICHAEL MCFAUL, PROF., STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Certainly.
DOBBS: This situation, is it absolutely an impossible one for the United States to resolve or significantly influence?
MCFAUL: Well, impossible's too strong a word. And most certainly, we could have done a better job of helping to avoid it beforehand. But what did we do now? The key thing now is we have to get the Russian troops back to their pre-invasion places. You have to remember there were peacekeepers, Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia, in Ocasia (ph). Now there are Russian regular soldiers that have penetrated, as you just said. And there's a big disagreement about whether they want to go back to those original places where they were.
DOBBS: The Russians appear to be consolidating their positions in Western Georgia, and seem to be making absolutely no move withdrawal to their pre-invasion positions, which would have been obviously on the Russian side of the border with the peacekeepers in South-Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia.
There is no, at least obvious incentive for the Russians to withdraw in any way with control of ports, Western Georgia and a corridor that takes them through to the Caspian Sea.
MCFAUL: You're absolutely right. And the diplomatic efforts that are underway, Secretary Rice now being very involved with the French and now on her way to Georgia. They're just affirming the facts on the ground that the Russians created. And they're playing hardball here. They do not want to go back. They want to create a new situation. And if you listen to the Russian officials the way they talk about it, they talk about it as if this is their Kosovo. This is their Serbia. So they've now bombed Georgia. They've now weakened Georgia. And eventually, over time, they want to free South Ossetia and Ocasia (ph) from Georgian control.
DOBBS: And obviously, again, the principle threat are to those former Soviet block nations, which include certainly the Ukraine, Azerbaijan, the oil producing, the rich energy nations. What are the prospects for the Ukraine, for the Balkans, Azerbaijan?
MCFAUL: Well, they are very worried, as you can well imagine. Just as there was a cyber warfare against Georgia and brought down all the Georgian websites, the government websites, the same thing happened in Azerbaijan. Ukranians are extremely worried.
You have to remember when Putin visited, and he wasn't really invited, but he just showed up at the NATO Summit in Bucharest in April. And he said privately, Ukraine does not exist as a country. Something to that effect.
DOBBS: Right.
MCFAUL: In other words, warning, NATO, you can't bring in this country because we have claims to some of that territory. So it's very troubling. And it's really a threat to the Western world. Are we going to do something to try to hold this back? And we don't have a lot of leverage. Let's be very honest about that. We got very few levers we can pull in this particular crisis at least anyway.
DOBBS: And with this crisis, as it unfolds, neither NATO, the European Union, or individually the United Kingdom, Germany, or France appears to have the will to stand against the initiatives being taken by Russia. That looks to be a very dangerous, dangerous inertia that is ripping the entire region from Western Europe through Central Asia.
MCFAUL: I think you're absolutely right. And I think if you look at retrospect, it is that reluctance before , which has helped to create the situation in two respects. First of all, it's absolutely clear to me, I've been following this for a long time, and I've written this for years, that we needed a negotiated settlement. We needed a senior diplomat to come in and negotiate. And we needed real international peacekeepers, not the Russians in these two places.
And...
DOBBS: The so-called frozen conflicts.
MCFAUL: The so-called frozen conflicts, exactly.
DOBBS: Which is an absurd piece of nomenclature if one could imagine.
MCFAUL: And we're paying the consequences for not having stepped up in doing those things ahead of time.
DOBBS: Well, thank you very much, Professor Michael McFaul. Thank you for being with us.
MCFAUL: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Thank you for joining us. Join us here tomorrow. And please join me on the radio Monday through Friday for "The Lou Dobbs Show." Please go loudobbsradio.com to find your local listings for the show on the radio.
For all of us here, we thank you for watching. Good night from New York.
