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CNN Larry King Live
Roger Clinton Speaks Out
Aired June 21, 2001 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, exclusive Roger Clinton's first TV interview since he got a last-minute presidential pardon, the controversy that is engulfing his brother has hit him too. He's here for the hour. We'll take your calls, Roger Clinton is next on LARRY KING LIVE!
We are with you in Los Angeles. Our guests are Roger Clinton, it's his first television interview since he received a presidential pardon from his half-brother Bill back in January. Along with him is his attorney Mark Geragos, he's one of Roger's -- are you -- you are the principal attorney, right?
MARK GERAGOS, ROGER CLINTON'S ATTORNEY: I'm his West Coast lawyer. Bart Williams is his East Coast lawyer. He's bicoastal.
KING: You're covered on both coasts.
(CROSSTALK)
ROGER CLINTON, BILL CLINTON'S HALF-BROTHER: ... I think it's OK, yes.
KING: As an over question, overview, how are you handling all of this?
R. CLINTON: There have been some times where I -- I don't think was handling it very well. Certainly not as well as I should have. But I think now I'm doing better. I see that proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. But it has been tough. I mean, it's been really tough.
KING: Is it hard for you to have been quiet, because you are a person who likes -- I mean, as long as I have known you, you like speaking out?
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir. Yes, Larry. Yes, Larry. It has been very tough being quiet -- but you know -- and nothing against Mark, and nothing against my attorney on -- that is based here, but he represents me regarding the pardon situation -- nothing against them, and certainly my brother and sister-in-law, but I don't do well really as far as associating with attorneys, and you know, when I need them, because...
KING: Glad to hear that? R. CLINTON: ... well, because I think...
GERAGOS: Exactly. I'm happy to be here.
R. CLINTON: ... I think I'm quite capable of communicating to people, especially when it's the truth that I'm communicating. So, I'm doing OK. It is a little tough about the attorney situation and everything.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: ... a lot of bases.
R. CLINTON: I have to do what they say, and they have been telling me not to talk yet. So...
KING: I understand. But there are some aspects, I mean, that require some response. We'll see. Well, we will go along. OK, first, though, how did you learn you got a pardon?
R. CLINTON: One of my friends that -- and I'm really not going to be mentioning too many names, specific names tonight, but one of my good friends that I had requested -- I requested four or five people for pardons that were dear friends of mine and in our families -- one of them called me up to tell me two things: one, he didn't receive his, and he heard that I received mine. I didn't know. I didn't wake up in the morning like it was Christmas morning and say: "Oh, my gosh, did I get my pardon?"
KING: You didn't.
R. CLINTON: No, sir. I mean, no, Larry. There was really no reason. I have been OK for 15 years without the pardon.
KING: Yeah, your sentence was in 1985, right?
R. CLINTON: Right.
KING: And you did your thing.
R. CLINTON: Right. And I like to believe that I got the pardon because I deserved it. Certainly, my brother was going to take some heat for it. But I think I deserved it, so...
KING: Were you shocked when your friends didn't?
R. CLINTON: Oh, shocked is such an understatement. But I guess "shocked" would be the first reaction, and devastation. I was devastated for a while.
KING: What kind of cases were they?
R. CLINTON: Well, some were drug cases. Some were tax cases.
KING: Any still in prison?
R. CLINTON: No.
KING: All had served their time?
R. CLINTON: All had served, and all had served and had been out for a long time, as long or almost as long as I had.
KING: Had you made a personal plea on their behalf?
R. CLINTON: Yes.
KING: So, in other words, you probably said to your brother these are good guys.
R. CLINTON: Yes. And my brother knew them as well, or least knew who they were.
KING: So, why didn't they get it?
R. CLINTON: Don't know.
KING: You didn't ask him?
R. CLINTON: Didn't really care.
KING: Angry?
R. CLINTON: Angry. For a while. I went three or four weeks angry, hurt, I went three or four weeks where I didn't talk to him. Yeah, I was very hurt.
But again, now I have to go back to the fact that he has always been the one of the two brothers to have that vision thing, to be able to look down the road and see if there would possibly be any ramifications.
So, I started finally believing that that was probably the case. He probably looked at the entire picture, rather than just the superficial picture on the surface alone, like I wanted, just give them to them, they deserve them, I'm your brother, I don't ask any favors, I'm asking you one favor -- boom! But it's not that simple, and it's always up to my brother to remind me of that.
KING: If he had that ability -- has that ability, obviously, how do you explain Marc Rich?
R. CLINTON: I have no idea. I have no idea.
KING: Because that certainly didn't look like getting the good view as to what would happen.
R. CLINTON: Well, he certainly -- I would expect that he certainly didn't do it thinking that no one would notice.
KING: And so it was surprising?
R. CLINTON: Well, it was surprising, I can't -- but I'm not saying it was wrong. I have talked to my brother about it, not in detail, but he has explained to me the reasons, the nonpersonal reasons -- because I don't need to know the personal ones -- but he has explained to me how he was right in doing it, and he thought that he was right, specially based on all the people that had written him about it.
KING: Has he explained to you about your friends?
R. CLINTON: I -- I wasn't interested in an explanation, Larry.
KING: Really? You were that mad, that hurt?
R. CLINTON: No, sir. No. Yes, yes, I was very hurt.
KING: Didn't you feel he owed you one, I mean, just an explanation?
R. CLINTON: I wasn't going to talk to him anyway, even if he would have been calling me for an explanation. He called a couple times, and I didn't return the call. I was really mad. This is maybe -- maybe three or four times in our lives that this has happened.
KING: I know how close you are to the senator, to Hillary. Did she try to get involved?
R. CLINTON: No. No.
KING: She stayed out of this?
R. CLINTON: No. Yeah. I...
KING: She is a senator now, she wouldn't get involved.
R. CLINTON: I wasn't going to involve Hillary -- I try not to involve Hillary, except for Camp David and stuff.
KING: How are things with you and the president now?
R. CLINTON: Oh, things are great. We played golf this past week. He was here, and he and I and a couple other friends played golf together at Riviera, and it was just wonderful.
KING: How is he doing?
R. CLINTON: He is doing great. He is doing great. He is traveling around the world, and doing good things, and making good money, and he's doing great.
KING: Yeah. What led you to let it go, to forgive?
R. CLINTON: With my brother?
KING: Yeah.
R. CLINTON: Because in retrospect, all the crap that has been going on and everything that we have had to deal with, and I didn't get my requests -- I have no clue what I would be going through and what my family would be going through right now had my brother granted those requests. I can't even comprehend! This is the most absurd thing I have ever -- I couldn't imagine this.
KING: You mean, for you, you are better off that he didn't do it?
R. CLINTON: Absolutely! Apparently, I am. He didn't do it and look what I'm going through. So, and the other stuff will come out later. We will hear the other side of that story, too. But I have to believe and -- or at least, I have chosen to believe that once again, he looked down the road rather than just doing what appeared to be right on the surface alone.
KING: Were you involved in the pardon for your client?
GERAGOS: I made calls, I lobbied.
KING: Susan McDougal.
GERAGOS: Susan McDougal, absolutely.
R. CLINTON: But I'm still devastated -- I mean, I am still hurt, I am still hurt about my friends not receiving it. I want that to be clear.
KING: We'll be right back with Roger Clinton and his attorney Mark Geragos. This is LARRY KING LIVE. We will be including your phone calls, don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I pardoned about as many people I think as President Reagan did. We -- and far fewer than President Ford or President Carter. And most of them, the reasons are self-evident, most of them are people that no one knows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Some more current things involving Roger Clinton. This will appear tomorrow morning in "The L.A. Times," it was a written by Richard Serrano, "The Times" staff writer.
R. CLINTON: That's great.
KING: "Two weeks since he testified before the grand jury investigating President Clinton's flood of eleventh-hour pardons, federal inmate Garland Lincecum" -- am I pronouncing it right? Yeah, Garland Lincecum, he said this -- it will appear -- he just testified for the grand jury, he is in jail in New York, they're going to move him back to Texas.
Here are some the things he said. He said he never met Roger Clinton, but the president's brother was pointed out to him on a hotel landing, while he was negotiating in the lobby with one of Clinton's associates about paying for a pardon. He spoke with you on the phone -- Roger -- and the president's brother told him we are going to solve your problem. I can't get anything from my brother.
He was told the money was going to a Washington law firm that would draw up the pardon application, and it would be part of a package of six pardon requests that Roger was presenting to his brother for approval. He was repeatedly given excuses for why the pardon was not coming through, and finally was told he would get -- he would be set free on Clinton's last day in the White House.
GERAGOS: Look, he is not going to respond to any of the specifics because the grand jury is still investigating this or at least, the reports are Bart Williams is representing him on that. I promised Bart I'm not going to let him get into that. But...
R. CLINTON: Say something.
GERAGOS: I will. I will tell you one thing: you've got a lawyer out there, who is making -- and this is an observation as his west coast lawyer has nothing to do with it.
You've got a guy who's talking about triple hearsay. He's saying this guy, told him that this guy said that this guy said, and then you combine that with these mezzanine sightings, that somewhere we pointed out Roger who is over there, and, supposedly they are trying to get diplomatic passports for a prisoner, somebody who is in federal prison.
You have to say to yourself, how absurd is this? What do they need a diplomatic passport for? To get him from Marion to Leavenworth? Why would he pay for something like that?
KING: Are you saying this whole thing is absurd?
GERAGOS: No, he is not going to...
R. CLINTON: I mean...
GERAGOS: We're not talking of the whole thing.
KING: All right.
GERAGOS: Is there a specific reference?
KING: Is there a CLM group that you and two other guys...
GERAGOS: Absolutely, he can't get into that.
R. CLINTON: I can't say anything. Because I have promised someone that I can't. I promised some folks that I won't do that tonight, that I won't specify anything. But I can tell you that there is no truth to money for pardons. There is zero truth to that, zero truth.
KING: So this guy is lying to Mr. Serrano of "The L.A. Times" when he tells him, he gave money and he was promised a pardon.
R. CLINTON: No, sir, I'm not saying he is lying. I'm not saying he is lying.
KING: You just said there was no money changed hands and he said...
R. CLINTON: I said there was no....
(CROSSTALK)
R. CLINTON: Let me clarify: there was no money exchanged with me.
KING: You never got a penny.
R. CLINTON: And I never heard one word about a pardon.
KING: I see.
R. CLINTON: Period. And I'm not going to say anymore, Larry -- you know you can make me do this. I'm not going to do it.
KING: No, no, but I mean it's appearing everywhere. To me, Mark, not to respond -- and in this day and age, in today's media -- for example let's take the Congressman in Washington, now, and the girl that is missing. By not responding whatever you may think, what do you got to hide?
R. CLINTON: Let me say one thing, then it...
KING: It does look weird.
R. CLINTON: I'll tell you one thing. In meetings in conversations with my other attorney Bart Williams, he has pointed out something very important to me, regardless of how disenchanted I am, with the system, and frustrated and angry, the government has a job to do. And I need to respect it. It is my government. Whether I think it is working to my benefit or not. The government is doing its job.
And I also have to look at my brother, which I have done so many times in my life, when I'm faced with a situation, because most of the time big brother has been faced with a situation like that. And I look and see how he handled it. And I realize if he handled it that way, then I need to at least try and handle it as close to that way as I can.
KING: Where does he stand legally right now? Have they subpoenaed him?
GERAGOS: Right now, legally, the only thing that he has got hanging over his head from a court appearance is next Monday morning at Torrance Court, where we have a pretrial hearing on a case that is charging him with DUI and disturbing the peace.
KING: We'll get to that later, but in this case, he has not been subpoenaed by a federal grand jury?
GERAGOS: I'm not getting into it.
KING: Can't tell us?
GERAGOS: At this point, what I do know, is that there is a federal grand jury that is there.
KING: That is looking into this whole matter.
GERAGOS: That's looking into not just Roger, looking into the pardons, they have to work their way through it. There is rule 6(e) secrecy. They've got to deal with that, he is going to respect that. And, that is about all we can say about it.
KING: They can force him not to talk?
GERAGOS: No, but there is a...
KING: They can't do that.
GERAGOS: Part of what you deal with in the federal government, one of the last things you want to do is inflame federal prosecutors.
R. CLINTON: You don't want to try to upstage anyone.
KING: Yes, but if you didn't do something, if you told -- if someone is in the paper tomorrow morning, saying I gave Larry King $230,000 dollars to get him a pardon, and I didn't do that -- I'm everywhere, saying I didn't do it.
R. CLINTON: Let me cut to the chase.
KING: I'm everywhere, man. Are you kidding me?
GERAGOS: There is one difference, if somebody says that, and they've got the -- and there is a grand jury behind there, the grand jury...
KING: I didn't do it, man.
GERAGOS: That is a different situation.
R. CLINTON: Let me cut to the chase. Back to my reference about the attorneys and my feelings about them, and the system.
I think that one of the -- I shouldn't say dumb -- most unnecessary things to do in my opinion, based on the system and the way I know that it works so often, is to just automatically think you need to hire an attorney. And to pay out a whole lot of money because basically when you get into the system, when you get into it -- even if you win, you lose.
So if you can communicate at all, you have to feel confident that you really don't need someone to just communicate something for you the exact same thing. So I think usually the craziest thing -- the most unnecessary thing is to hire an attorney, but I have come to realize that one thing that is much crazier is to hire an attorney and then do what I want to do.
So, I have hired this attorney, and I'm doing what not Mark, but Bart, and he is telling me not to so, I'm respecting it.
KING: As a lawyer, he already said he didn't take any money. He already said that.
GERAGOS: He said that previous -- period.
R. CLINTON: Period.
KING: All right. Help me with something: Why would you not comment? In other words, the legalities -- he hasn't been charged with anything. Go back to the example...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: ...took $240,000. You would shut up?
GERAGOS: Well, if there was a grand jury there.
KING: Forget anything, you didn't do it!
GERAGOS: And depending where the grand jury is, and what I know about it, there may be a point where I comment. I have never been afraid to let my clients comment. I have been here with you with other clients, and I have had clients talk. But in certain situations...
R. CLINTON: You know I don't like to be quiet.
GERAGOS: It is tough to keep Roger down.
KING: But you realize in a media conscious world, it looks weird.
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir.
GERAGOS: There is also a problem here. There's almost a self- fulfilling prophecy.
I put the position out, and I will stand by the position, that if his name was Roger McClintock, there wouldn't be an offense over here that we'd be going to court on Monday. There wouldn't be anything to do with a grand jury in New York.
I mean, part of the reason that has got this kind of onslaught that he is getting articles written on the front page of "The L.A.Times" on Father's Day, which is just unbelievable, based on hearsay, innuendo, and very little substantiation, is because of who he is. And it is almost like he is being prosecuted by proxy.
KING: We'll get a break and we will be right back with more. Don't go away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: By the way, the thing about diplomatic passports came up. Apparently, Texas entrepreneur Richard Case, who is a friend of Lincecum, the guy in prison, alleges he paid $30,000 to CLM, a corporation you are supposed to be involved with, to get diplomatic passports and he never got any. And that is what he is saying, but Lincecum...
R. CLINTON: And I'm not saying he's lying. I'm not saying he's lying. I'm telling you he didn't pay me and I've never heard of it and I never saw it -- period.
KING: Do you know Lincecum?
R. CLINTON: No, I can't say, I can't say. See, your getting me on a roll, Larry.
KING: The guy makes these charges tomorrow...
R. CLINTON: You know something? Let him make them. They can make the flipping charges. I have got the truth on my side. And the crazy irony of all of this crap is, is that is all I have. Isn't that ironic? All I have is the truth all. That's all I have.
KING: But you are not telling it. You have the truth, but you're not telling it.
R. CLINTON: I'm telling it. I didn't do it. That is the truth.
KING: OK, you never.
R. CLINTON: Now there are some details that we can dress it up with, but the bottom line is I didn't do it. I don't care what this flipping guy says and his buddy. I don't care what they say. It doesn't matter to me. But I'm not saying they are lying about what they are saying, because they are not saying that I took it. They are not saying that I was there.
KING: OK.
R. CLINTON: OK. I'm over it.
KING: Is it possible, Mark, that someone in the middle here -- is this possible -- hypothetical scenario -- someone that knows Roger and knows these guys sets up a deal where he, this someone, gets money, tells him I got Roger, I will get it to Roger. They pay it as best they can and he says he will get it to Roger. Roger is innocent and they are kind of innocent.
GERAGOS: Which is exactly what I said. When you've got triple hearsay, and then you've got somebody saying I pointed to a mezzanine over there, start to think about what the quality of that accusation is. That is like taking somebody over when he is playing golf at Riviera, and telling hem, feeding him any kind of line you want and then pointing on to the golf course and saying, see Bill over there? See Roger over there, they are in on it even though you are 200 yards away and you don't even know that is what's going on.
That kind of an accusation should be revealed for what it is, which is, it wouldn't stand -- first of all, you could you never say that in court, because it would be objection hearsay, it would be excluded. You would never be able to link it up circumstantially.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Is if possible that someone set Lincecum up?
GERAGOS: Anything is possible -- anything is possible. I don't want to get into it.
KING: Is it ticklish, being, ticklish being the president's brother? Anything you do...
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir. Yes, Larry.
KING: You are not...
R. CLINTON: It has been very ticklish for quite a while.
KING: And you ought to be angry if you didn't do anything.
R. CLINTON: I am very angry! I am very, very angry. I am very disappointed in what seemingly is a system that allows me to be guilty until proven innocent. I'm very, very angry.
KING: Has the media been fair or unfair?
R. CLINTON: Very, very unfair.
KING: We will pick up on that in a minute. My guest is Roger Clinton and Mark Geragos, his attorney. This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back. Now, this CLM company, is there a CLM company? Is there a CLM company?
R. CLINTON: What's that expression down in Arkansas? It's like a dog with a bone.
KING: The M is supposed to be George Locke, and the M is supposed to be Dickey Morton, and the C is you. George Locke is your friend?
R. CLINTON: I can't answer that. I can't answer that. George Locke is my friend. He has been my friend 25 years.
KING: You are entitled to have a friend. You could say you got a friend.
R. CLINTON: I've got more than dog gone one, but George is one of them. KING: Is he one of the guys you tried to get a pardon for?
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir.
KING: OK, and he was one of the guys turned down?
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir.
KING: OK, would you expect that Locke or Morton could have led these guys on without you knowing it?
GERAGOS: He is not going to answer that.
R. CLINTON: I can't answer that right now. Boy that is lighting a fuse there.
KING: Somebody did something. These guys -- you think these guys invented...
R. CLINTON: I wouldn't think George would do that to me.
KING: OK.
R. CLINTON: That is all I'm saying. I wouldn't think that. But I have been surprised before.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: This is sounding like it's a setup here, something...
GERAGOS: Look at the quality of the accusations. Looks what they are saying happened. He's never in the room. He's always this kind of...
KING: But why would Lincecum invent this? Someone must have said something to him.
(CROSSTALK)
GERAGOS: Lincecum, as anybody who goes and testifies who's in prison, has always got some incentive, because the only person who can lighten your sentence is a federal prosecutor to give you what's called a rule 35. So that doesn't tell you much.
KING: You think the federal prosecutors are after your client?
GERAGOS: No. I'm not saying I'm not saying that at all.
R. CLINTON: I hope not -- Geez Louise!
KING: What about the press? You said you are very angry at them -- for?
R. CLINTON: Well you know, it is just, it is just an extension of what I have always thought was unfair and the manipulation and distortion of the First Amendment, you know, I mean, come on -- well that's what our forefathers wrote -- well, you know what, please.
Do you think we are all idiots here? That is not what they intended. I have been internationally labeled and branded, what, an extortionist, whatever, a drunk driver.
KING: We'll get to that in a minute. Your child has been affected, though, right?
R. CLINTON: It is not fair -- oh, my child had been greatly affected -- and do you what, but thank goodness, my wife and I have really tried to override that, at least balance it out. And try and explain to him, but he is seven years old -- he just turned seven a couple weeks ago -- he should not have to deal with this at this age, but life is not fair.
KING: Who does it, other kids?
R. CLINTON: Well I don't even know. I don't go to the playgrounds and listen. But I do know I was a kid once and I do know children can be cruel. Kids can be cruel. And I know kids listen to their folks at home. And when media is blasting it out on the televisions, most people are interested -- curious -- at the least they're curious. We are all human.
I have even been, you know, victim of believing something that I have heard or read before, before finding out it to be true or not. But you know something, the thing is, it wouldn't be so unfair, well it probably would be as unfair, but would at least be a little consolation if the media balanced it out, if they truly did what they always say, well we are not out to hurt anybody. We are just doing the news.
When you find out the truth, when you find out the facts, don't put it on the damn classifies on the bottom page in a small paragraph that you have got to get a magnifying glass to read.
KING: If you told the whole story here tonight, or if you sat down with Mr. Serrano of "The L.A...
R. CLINTON: Do you think it would be on the front page? Do you think it would be on international news? Please -- please.
KING: Your side of the story? You don't think so?
R. CLINTON: Let's find out. Let's wait and see, let's remember we said this tonight, and when the truth comes out, because I have the truth, when it does come out, and when it is all said and done, let's see if the media is just as fair and labels me an innocent man, and retracts everything that they have stated. Let's see if they do.
KING: The only reason it's not coming out is because your lawyers told you not to say anything.
R. CLINTON: Absolutely.
KING: And it will come out? R. CLINTON: Absolutely.
KING: And there will be nothing that will happen to you?
R. CLINTON: I can't guarantee that. Do you think all the men and women in prison or on probation, do you think they are all guilty? I don't think so.
KING: I don't want to put words in your mouth. You didn't do anything wrong?
R. CLINTON: No, sir.
KING: Either morally or legally?
R. CLINTON: No, sir.
KING: That is the question. When we come back we will talk about the DUI and we'll take your phone calls. We will be right back with Roger Clinton and Mark Geragos. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We are back with Roger Clinton and his attorney Mark Geragos. OK, let's get to this other thing, then we will go to phone calls. February 21, you were arrested by the Hermosa Beach police, charged with drunken driving. This Monday, June 25 -- it's Hermosa Beach, right?
R. CLINTON: Yeah, I was just thinking about the date.
KING: OK, February 21, and on this Monday, June 25, you have a hearing. That's for what, Mark?
GERAGOS: It's called a pretrial hearing. We are going to demand that we get some further discovery, and then I suppose we will probably set it for trial that date.
KING: Were you drinking and driving?
R. CLINTON: No, sir. Well, let me clarify that: I was not legally drunk and driving. I had had about two beers, two Coors Lites. Maybe two. Maybe two. I had been out an hour. I was leaving for flipping Russia the next morning. I didn't even want to go out. I was talked into going out and listening to about a half-hour worth of blues music at my favorite place to go in Hermosa Beach.
KING: Were you driving?
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir.
KING: And a cop stopped you.
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir.
KING: And? R. CLINTON: Well...
KING: They ran a test? I mean, what did they do to you?
R. CLINTON: Let me tell you first off -- without mentioning my friend's name, because his name will certainly come up anyway -- but I was with a friend of mine, that we were going to get up the next morning and watch basketball before I had to go to Russia. He said -- he and I decided to go out. We had some chicken, we had a little chicken dinner, and then went and had a beer at one place and a beer at another place.
As soon as we arrived in Hermosa Beach, after our chicken dinner, he said -- we parked, we are going to this one club -- and he says: "Roger," -- and there is 1,000 people in this area of Hermosa Beach on a Friday -- on a weekend. And he said: "Roger, I think these police over there, there is a group of policemen over here, and they are standing with a couple of men, a few men, with just suits on, and uniformed and suits -- and I think they are looking, they are watching us."
Now, we had just pulled up and parked. We hadn't even gotten in the club yet. We had one beer while we were eating our chicken dinner at a place next to my house, and he says: "I think they're watching us or following us," and I'm going: "Greg, come on, don't be so paranoid. You know, come on. They are not -- they watch everything because there are thousands of people here on the weekends, and they have to keep everything in check."
KING: And he turned out to be right.
R. CLINTON: He told me four times, Larry -- let's fast forward the next hour -- told me four times. The fourth time he finally got my attention.
KING: The police said that -- we had a statement that we read on this program from the chief, you had a .08.
GERAGOS: Well, that's what -- that's what they say.
R. CLINTON: As a matter of fact, I told them that I was probably going to have .08, wasn't I, sir?
GERAGOS: That's right, he...
R. CLINTON: I probably am going to have a .08, am I not, sir? That is what I said.
GERAGOS: Larry, what they did -- they put out a statement first that they didn't know who he was until after they had arrested him.
KING: Here's what Paul Wolcott, their information officer said: "There was no..."
GERAGOS: It just so happened their public information officer just so happened to be one of the guys out there that night staking him out, who was caught on the tape.
KING: "There was no bicoastal conspiracy of police and prosecutors out to get Roger Clinton, as his attorney would have you believe. The vehicle he was driving was stopped because of an erratic driving pattern typical of someone under the influence. Roger Clinton was transported to the station. He has completed a breathalyzer test of his blood alcohol content, which showed, in fact, he had been driving while under the influence."
R. CLINTON: Didn't happen.
KING: You weren't...
R. CLINTON: Wasn't driving erratically. That's the most -- that is the biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard. I told the young man that was the officer, when I got out, I said: "Sir, you know who I am. And I know this is a setup. You know good and well I'm not drunk. I know I'm not. And I know that you know I'm not. Now, I don't know what makes a person like you tick, sir."
KING: What did he say?
R. CLINTON: He said: "I'm sorry you think this way, sir. I'm handling this like I handle every other DUI arrest on the weekends here. That is my job. I don't know who you are, I haven't seen you."
I asked: "Sir, I know that you have seen me. My friends told me four times you have been with a group that has sort of changed a couple of faces between the time that I arrived and the time I left," and I said: "I know you know, I know you have been watching me, I know you know who I am, and I know this is a setup. But I just don't know why and what's even more important to me, I don't know what makes a person like you tick. You are a police officer, sir. You have a badge on. This isn't fair, and I don't know why you are doing it."
And then -- this is very important here -- after he had said: "Sir, I" -- and said it loudly so that people around so he could have some witnesses -- "I don't know why you think that, sir. I have no idea who you were. I had not seen you tonight. We hadn't been following you. I didn't see you until I pulled you over, until I saw you driving erratically and pulled you over, and didn't know who you were until I ran your driver's license tags."
So, fast forward about two or three minutes, and I said: "Sir," -- I continued to say "sir," you know, he said about the breathalyzer, he put me through a 30-minute Jane Fonda workout, for goodness sake. I did everything -- right-footed, left-footed, right-handed, left- handed, you know, everything. You got to be ambidextrous to pass this guy's little, you know, little routine here.
So, I go: "Now what, sir?" I said: "Now what? Now you know I'm not drunk, now what are we going to do?" He said: "You know something, let me tell you something, if you don't think you were drunk, let me just explain something to you. When I saw you earlier tonight, I looked at my partner and I said, 'oh, please don't let him drive home tonight. Please don't let him get in his truck and drive home.'"
And I said: "Sir, you just got through telling me you hadn't seen me tonight, you don't know who I am, and you had no idea until you saw me driving erratically." He said: "Just shut up and just turn around." And I said: "Are you going to give me a breathalyzer?" He said: "Yeah, I will give you a breathalyzer."
I said: "Let me guess," I said: "Sir, if you were really concerned about my well-being and everyone else's safety, if I am in fact a risk on the highway, since we've only driven a couple of hundred yards without incident, if you are really concerned with my welfare, why don't you just call me a taxi, and I will just be on my way and go home, because I know you have that authority to do that." "No, I'm sorry, I can't do that, just take this breathalyzer." And I said: "Sir, you do have -- you do have the right. I do know that much."
He said: "Just take this breathalyzer." And he goes: "I tell you what, I'll make a deal with you. You take this breathalyzer, if you blow over you are going to jail, if you blow under then I will call you a taxi." I said: "Sir, if I blow under, I'm driving my flipping truck home." You know something, this kid...
KING: What did the breathalyzer show?
R. CLINTON: Well, first off, he wouldn't show me, and I said -- as soon as I blew in it, I said: "Sir, let me guess, I blew over, right?" He said: "Just a minute," he goes: "Yeah, you blew over." And I said: "OK. Well, let's go down to -- let's just go on."
So anyway -- I'm cutting through a lot of the details -- we went to the police station, he gave me one on the official one, and I said: "Sir, may I see the results?" "No, just sit down over there." He gave it to me twice. I said: "Let me guess, .08?" He came back and said: "Yeah, .08." Gave it to me again. "May I see the results?" "No, just sit down." "Let me guess again, .08?" "Yes, .08." I said: "Isn't that amazing, sir?" .
KING: Is your license under suspension now?
R. CLINTON: No, it's not.
KING: They wait until the court case?
GERAGOS: Well, normally they do, but in this case they were going to suspend it. We kind of showed them there were problems here, and they have agreed to put it over for a while. So we'll have a hearing on that later on.
KING: Do you think he's going to lick this?
R. CLINTON: Let me ask you something...
GERAGOS: Do I think he's going to lick this? Once I got a hold of that tape...
KING: Where they were...
GERAGOS: Where they -- and you heard the tape, I just am hard- pressed to see how anybody is going to say...
R. CLINTON: Do I have time right now in this segment to say one thing?
KING: Quickly.
R. CLINTON: We better wait until the next segment.
KING: All right, but we want to get some calls too.
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir. I just want to say one thing...
KING: OK.
R. CLINTON: ... about the flipping deal that has been called in.
KING: And I also want to ask you if you think this other notoriety is going to hurt you in that court -- and we'll take the calls right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: OK, I want to get a call or two in, but what did you want to say?
R. CLINTON: I just want to say one thing, that it -- it is very curious to me that if, in fact, it wasn't a setup, and let's treat this in a hypothetical situation here. If in fact it wasn't a setup -- if in fact I was just hammered and driving erratically, running over curbs, like they say, changing lanes improperly, their duty is to follow through with the DUI. Their duty is to prosecute me accordingly or charge me accordingly with the alcohol infraction that is dangerous, that, in fact, is a hazard.
KING: You're saying they're not doing that?
R. CLINTON: All I know is, do you know anybody that would be that set in the law, and that much of an authority figure that would simply call up when it got a little bit hot and say, "How about if you just come in and plead guilty to reckless driving, which is a slap on the wrist, and we'll drop everything that's alcohol related." Why would you do that? I'm a hazard.
KING: They offered him that?
GERAGOS: That's on the table.
KING: They've offered a reckless driving plea.
R. CLINTON: I don't know these people, Larry. They're not out to help me. If they were wanting to help me, they'd have called me a cab that night. It just stinks.
KING: Let me get a call. San Diego, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Roger.
R. CLINTON: Hey.
CALLER: You seem like a really nice guy, but it also seems like trouble follows you around. Do you think that's a result of your own actions, or because you are the former president's brother?
R. CLINTON: That's a very good question. I think I'd have to say it's a combination of the two. Not because of my current actions, but because of my past, I'm an easy target. And because I'm the president's brother, they're not trying to get me. They could give a flip about me.
KING: You think this is all about Bill?
R. CLINTON: Oh, please! Of course -- of course it is. Why in the world would they want to set me up? I mean, what are they getting out of that? They're not getting anything.
But, yes, ma'am, that's a good question. But I can't erase my past. That will always make me an easy target.
KING: Do you think you'll be hurt at all in court by these other allegations that are screaming around in the press, regarding the pardon and these guys?
Do you think that might affect you? You're a lawyer, you might -- couldn't that?
GERAGOS: No, I don't think it will.
R. CLINTON: I don't think so.
GERAGOS: I don't think so. I think it's going to have the opposite effect.
R. CLINTON: I don't think so. And you know something? If I had my choice, I mean, in a perfect world, here, about this situation, I would simply -- all I want to do, all I want these people in Hermosa Beach, the police department, all I want them to understand, and the D.A.'s office is that I just want it to go away. The damage has been done. I have been internationally labeled a drunk driver. A drunk driver.
I've had pictures of me and my son on the front page of international papers, with the story related to the DUI arrest. The damage has been done. They've gotten what they wanted to get, apparently. I'm wanting to just let -- if they would just have a dismissal and a written apology -- they don't even need to go on international news to apologize. And let it go.
KING: Maybe the president's brother can't have a couple of beers. R. CLINTON: Well, you know something? Then somebody tell me that I can't drive while I'm not drunk. Somebody tell me that, and by God, I'll get a driver.
KING: Naperville, Illinois, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Roger, I wanted to know, do you think that because your brother is president, that this entitles you to a wish list of pardons for your friends? And shouldn't your brother maybe be the one who's hurt and upset that you would request this of him?
R. CLINTON: You know something? I would have to say -- I would have to say that I don't think that I deserve a wish list. No, ma'am, I do not. If you knew how many favors I've asked my brother in my lifetime, much less while he was president, then that would adjust your line of questioning.
KING: There haven't been many?
R. CLINTON: You can count them on one hand.
KING: In this case, you were saying...
R. CLINTON: In this case, I did not ask -- and it is a decent question that you've asked. I did not ask because I felt I deserved it, because of who I was, because of my relationship with him. I asked because I asked a personal favor as one brother to another brother. Not as a citizen to the president, even though that was part of it as well.
And no, ma'am, I don't think that he would have been -- he was -- if you know anything about a president, then that is part of the total package -- of getting questions, being besieged with questions and requests and favors, and there is no law saying everyone in America or in the world can ask you favors, except your brother.
KING: Your other attorney has said he's been subpoenaed, but he said he has not formally received a subpoena in his hand.
GERAGOS: I don't know. I haven't asked that question, but I'll tell you, from my experience, lawyers can accept subpoenas a on behalf of their clients, or reject them. It's up to them. You can work out an informal arrangement with the prosecutor, so -- it's on a case by case...
KING: You don't have a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of your report, though.
R. CLINTON: Not so far. No, sir.
KING: We'll be back with more of Roger Clinton. His attorney is Mark Geragos. This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: I knew your mother well. How do you think she'd be reacting to all of this, you and Bill? R. CLINTON: Well, she'd certainly be leading the charge, you know, in our defense. She would have her...
KING: Might be a little mad at Bill?
R. CLINTON: I don't know if she would be mad at him or not. I don't think so. But, maybe I wouldn't be privy to that specific conversation that she would have with her oldest son -- her older son. But I know that you dance with who brung you. I do know that. That's what we grew up on, and...
KING: So he let you down.
R. CLINTON: Well, you know something, regarding what? Regarding my request?
KING: Yeah.
R. CLINTON: Well, yeah, but you know something, he has that right. And again, he maybe saw that it would have been -- more harm than good had he done that. But yeah, I'm still hurt. I'm no longer hurt that my brother denied my requests for my special friends. I have now rechanneled it to my disappointment and my hurt from my close friends. There were two or three of them that I honestly said to my brother, of course, in last hours he apparently wasn't listening to what I was saying anyway, but I told him, I said: "Big brother, I've gone 15 years without a pardon. That is what I have told these people about the DUI thing." I said, you know, I had a federal conviction on my record, wherever that flipping record is, I have never seen it. Where is it? But I have had a federal conviction on it.
Put three letters -- Ph.D., DUI, I don't give a flip. I'm not pleading guilty to something I'm not guilty of. But I hurt for my friends. I do hurt for my friends. I told my brother, if these -- if these two or three don't get it, I don't want mine. Because I'm going to be fine without mine. And I was the only one that list that got it.
KING: You think Bill is hurt?
R. CLINTON: By what?
KING: By your pain. No? He is watching right now, let's say -- not hurt?
R. CLINTON: I don't think he is hurt, I don't think he is hurt. He's probably sorry that I'm hurting about it. But he also sees that I have bounced back OK. I'm OK with it now, I still have some disappointment about it, sure. Because these dear friends are still my dear friends and by gosh, it is just too bad I guess that they were my dear friends. I guess ironically that ended up working against them, and so forth.
KING: What do you make of Hugh Rodham Clinton's problem with -- he raised money to lobby for clemency for... R. CLINTON: People have even asked me. They say, how come you're still in the news and Huey is already out of it? I said, well, because Huey did it and I didn't do it. OK? It's that simple, all right?
KING: That's a good way to look at.
R. CLINTON: Huey is a great guy. I love him dearly. And you know what? I better not say this.
KING: Go ahead, say it.
R. CLINTON: Anyway, Huey has been sort of hung out to dry, and I want to make that clear. He is a great man. I love him. He didn't do anything wrong. But he was just tired of the crap. And tired of the hounding, and he did what he thought it was going to take to get rid of it. You know what? He is a lawyer, he was entitled to do what he wanted to do.
KING: When we come back, we will ask Roger, assuming everything swims along here, what he is going to do now with his life? Right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: You mentioned one was George -- have you ever told the names of the other people that you wanted pardons for? No? Just because of...
R. CLINTON: It's not necessary. Salt in the wound.
KING: What are you going to do with the rest of your life? Let's assume this goes away. Eventually, let's assume. Whatever happens, it goes away. How old are you now?
R. CLINTON: 44, I think.
(LAUGHTER)
R. CLINTON: It's a running joke, I can't remember sometimes. I have never and will never -- I will never get music out of my life, out of my heart. I have never been able to do that, I've never really tried. And I'm not going to. Music is always going to be in my life, in some respect. Always.
The bottom line is, everything else is a by-product. The bottom line is, I'm going to be a good father, I'm going to take care of my son. And everything is going to be OK. I don't give a flip. Because whatever these people do, and I had to wake up just recently and realize this: whatever happens -- whatever happens, been there, done that. Been there, done that. Just a different day, but I'm going to be OK.
KING: You ever have a fear you might go to jail again?
R. CLINTON: You know something? Because of this -- because of the ability to manipulate and distort this system, this great democracy, where a person is innocent until proven guilty -- excuse me -- I can't say that on air -- because of that, sure. Sure.
It might be a remote possibility. But you're dog gone right it is a possibility. Why do you think there are innocent people in prison? Even if there is a very small percentage, our system does not send to prison only guilty people.
KING: By the way, we asked the Hermosa Beach Police if they wanted to come on and make a statement, and they did not return our call.
R. CLINTON: Well of course not. Of course not. Do you think they would come on with me? Not a shot. Let their spokesman come on, the one making all the statements.
KING: All we asked for was a statement, we didn't get a return call back.
R. CLINTON: They are having to regroup, rethink.
KING: Are you pessimistic about all this?
R. CLINTON: No, sir, no, sir. I'm optimistic about it all because that is the way I was raised. That is what I have been taught. That is what I have lived all my life. However, I do have some concerns, I do have some great concerns.
KING: What kind of client is he, Mark?
GERAGOS: He's an excellent client, I don't have any problems with him. He, as you can tell, he is very shy, you have to kind of bring him out of his shell on occasion. Other than that, he is cooperative, and you know tells the truth. That is interesting.
KING: Thank you, Mark. Thanks, Roger.
R. CLINTON: Thanks, Larry, again buddy.
KING: Be well.
R. CLINTON: Yes, sir.
KING: A wonderful great talent did today. Carol O'Connor passed away, TV's Archie Bunker had a heart attack, he was 76. He was on Broadway, dozens of films, of course, best known for "All in the Family."
O'Connor won four Emmys for playing Archie and another for playing a small-town police chief in "In the Heat of the Night." He was a guest on this show a number of occasions, Carol O'Connor.
Who could ever forget the famous quote, "Hey, Meathead."
Took a character, developed it, married it, made it happen. He will be sorely missed. And there will be lots more on the death of Carol O'Connor ahead on "CNN TONIGHT."
Lots more on other things in the news as well. Stay tuned for that, and then Jeff Greenfield and his gang at the bottom of the hour.
For Roger Clinton, for Mark Geragos, for our whole crew here in Los Angeles, I'm Larry King, thank you for joining us on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Good night.
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