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CNN Larry King Live

Interviews With Shimon Peres, Saeb Erekat, Dr. Andrew Weil

Aired April 15, 2002 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, the remarkable Naomi Judd. She beat hepatitis C and says that Dr. Andrew Weil helped her. Dr. Weil believes what you eat can kill you or save your life. Don't take a bite until you hear his advice. Plus, the woman who used to be Oprah's personal chef and is now Dr. Weil's co-author, Rosie Daley.

But first, Colin Powell pushes for peace in the Middle East. Is this mission impossible? We're going to hear from Israel's foreign minister, Shimon Peres and two of Yasser Arafat's top advisers, Saeb Erekat and Mohamed Rachid. And they're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening. More talk in the Middle East, more violence too. Secretary of State Colin Powell is pushing on with his very difficult peace mission. Set for another round of meetings with Ariel Sharon, and then Yasser Arafat.

Earlier today, I interviewed Israeli foreign minister Shimon Peres. He joined us from Tel Aviv.


The status of the Powell mission so far, Mr. Foreign Minister. It seems to be stalemated. The Palestinians won't do a cease-fire without the Israeli withdrawal, and the Israelis won't do the withdrawal without a cease-fire. That seems like a standoff. What's your response?

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: I don't think so. I think the difference is a matter of days, not of weeks. And I do believe a solution will be found to overcome this obstacle.

KING: What makes you so optimistic?

PERES: I think it's the beginning. Well, we didn't intend to remain there for any length of time. We're talking a matter of three to four weeks. Two and a half weeks passed already, so the remaining time is not so long, and that was our intentions originally.

KING: Are you telling us that you'll be leaving most of all the areas very shortly?

PERES: Yes. I think it's a matter of days, not of weeks.

KING: The status of the call for the international peace proposal conference that Prime Minister Sharon has called for, Mr. Powell said today that Arafat's presence would not be required. Do you agree with that?

PERES: I understand that Colin Powell said that he suggests the level of foreign ministers. If this will be the level of foreign ministers, then the presence of Arafat is not needed. But, basically, a conference is a matter of agreed conditions and agreed purposes. You cannot impose neither the presence, nor the agenda and I think that we shall make, all of us, a superb effort to reach an agreement.

KING: And Mr. Arafat's role now. How do you -- and you go back a long way with him -- how do you see him? Is he still very relevant?

PERES: He is a relevant leader that made a great deal of mistakes, but you have to live with the mistakes of other leaders as well. The status is that he is the elected leader of the Palestinian people. Nobody can fire him and we cannot replace him. But what we can demand is that he will change his policies and behavior. This is a must. In accordance with his own commitment and his own performance, he has to change.

KING: But does he not have problems in his own bailiwick? He has people on his right and people on his left, so he faces kind of an internal policy problem, doesn't he?

PERES: Yes. All of us have people on our left and people on our right, but they don't carry weapons. His problem is the right and the left are armed and everybody has a gun and a bomb. If this shall be continued, there won't be a Palestinian Authority, but the Palestinian (inaudible).

For his own sake and for the destiny of the Palestinians, there must be a single authority over all rifles, all bombs, all people who are armed -- that they are taking the orders from a single source. Otherwise, there won't be any sense to negotiate. And that is a prior condition not for the sake of Israel, but rather for the sake of the Palestinians and their future.

KING: The Arafat lieutenant intifada leader, Marwan Barghouti -- I think that's the way it's pronounced -- the Israeli special forces...

PERES: Right.

KING: ... arrested him Monday in Ramallah. What's going to be the impact on the intifada of that move?

PERES: He will be handled strictly according to the law and nothing else. And it is in a sense, he'll have to prove his innocence. If he's not, he will have to pay the legal cost, but we shall handle his case with justice in accordance with the law.

KING: And that will be -- as most cases in Israel, that will be a public trial?

PERES: Yes, it will be basically open. KING: Any concerns about the question of Lebanon and that border? I know Mr. Powell visited there today calling on leaders to stop the guerrillas. Are you concerned about the border with Lebanon?

PERES: We are very much concerned because the Hezbollah, with the support of the Iranians and the Syrians, wants to upset the existing situation in the north. They want to escalate. They want to open a second front. But they also wonder if we shall provoke the opening of a second front, something that we didn't agree to do, and we shall not do in the future.

Colin Powell just returned a couple of hours ago from Syria and Lebanon. I think he delivered a very strong message to the Syrians and to the Lebanese because until now the impressions of the leaders in Syria and Lebanon was that Americans are addressing them on behalf of Israel. Now, the United States, this time, delivered an American message, not just the Israeli one.

Syria is a member of the Security Council. They cannot be the ones that spread insecurity at other places. There are 10 headquarters of different terroristic organization in Damascus, and they cannot endanger all the time the necessary conditions for moving ahead in the direction of peace and negotiations.

KING: Mr. Foreign Minister, I know you're very aware of American politics and there is much division in the United States; conservative Republicans and many top Democrats, including Mr. Lieberman and others, oppose the meeting at all with Mr. Arafat. Mr. Bush is leaving it in the hands of Mr. Powell. Was that a correct idea?

PERES: Well, considering the alternatives -- there are two alternatives: Not to discuss at all with the Palestinians and I think this would be a mistake, or to find somebody else among the Palestinians and this is an impossibility. Now the best bet to be pragmatic in the right is to meet with Arafat but have him empower his own lieutenants, who are more forthcoming and more pragmatic, to negotiate. There are people around him with whom we were talking for a long time on many occasions and with whom we think we can reach an agreement.

KING: Are you satisfied with the United States' role to this date?

PERES: Yes, very much. I think the United States took a rather strong position against terror and terror is a world danger in every corner, facing every person. We cannot coexist with terror, neither the Americans nor the Chinese nor the Russians nor the French nor the Israelis.

It's either them or us because if they will prevail, you will not be able to enter a plane and fly safely or to build a high rise building permanently and eventually to drink fresh water and breathe fresh air. They cannot be like a cancer in the heart of our time and our world. And that President Bush is giving a very strong front and shows very strong leadership, then eventually the United States came to the conclusion that they have to try their hands to see if we can reach an agreement between the Palestinians and us. We, too, are interested in reaching an agreement.

Our purpose is not to win a war. Our purpose is to attain peace for the benefit of all parties.

KING: Can you tell us, Mr. Prime Minister, what happened in Jenin and when we're going to see that whole story?

PERES: There was a great deal of exaggerations (inaudible). Unfortunately, when our army came into Jenin and they got strict orders not to hit civilian life, not to hit a single civilian person. But the first persons they met were strapped with mines. They were living mines, and many of the buildings were also mined, and a great deal of destruction and explosion took place there. In spite of it, our estimate today is that the victims -- unfortunately, there are many victims -- are less than 100, probably 60 or 70, and not like the rumors that were spread beforehand talking about hundreds of people that were killed.

Clearly, it wasn't a massacre. It was tough fighting. You know, we lost 23 soldiers. It was the toughest confrontation in this operation. And they were shooting from every side, there were bombs and explosives on every step, and the army really has shown a great deal of restraint and courage at the same time.

KING: Thank you very much as always, Mr. Foreign Minister. We hope the next time we talk maybe it'll be in the advent of a cease- fire.

PERES: Thank you. You know, we are celebrating now the 54th anniversary of the state of Israel. We are today 6.5 million people. It is quite a large number for a Jewish experience, and these 54 years we've tried to achieve independence. Now we are trying to achieve peace. We achieved the first. I am sure we shall achieve the latter as well.

KING: Shimon Peres, the Israeli foreign minister, offering some hope in saying it's a matter of days before the Israeli army pulls out of the West Bank and reduces hostilities there.

When we come back, a Palestinian response. We thank him for joining us. Don't go away.


KING: Joining us by phone from Ramallah is Mohamed Rachid, the adviser to President Arafat, a member of the Palestinian negotiating team. He's joining us by phone. I first met Mr. Rachid back in '93 when we interviewed Mr. Arafat in Washington.

The Israelis are now saying that they will pull their armies out of most areas within the next few days. What is your response, Mr. Rachid?

MOHAMED RACHID, ADVISER TO PRESIDENT ARAFAT: Well, I think this response should go to President Bush, who he said with no delay, then he said immediately. Then he said, I mean every word I said. It looks like every leader in this world listens carefully to President Bush except Prime Minister Sharon. And that is creating a big debate in our region.

After September 11, President Bush and the United States of America gained the sympathy of 200 million Arabs. Now, every day, losing more and more because they can see when it comes to Israel, the United States of America -- it is a paper tiger.

KING: There is no denying, though, that there has been terrorism on your side, certainly in great degrees, in the past few weeks that brought all this attention. That didn't happen out of a vacuum.

RACHID: Larry, you don't fight the terrorism the way Mr. Sharon is trying to do. This will increase more and more the possibilities for more attacks in the future.

KING: What do you expect from the next meeting with Mr. Arafat and Mr. Powell on Wednesday?

RACHID: The first thing we are expecting is to stop the ethnic cleansing and the human cultural disaster going on in our territories. And we wish Mr. Powell will be firm to both sides in calling for a cease-fire and implementing the appeal President Bush, the immediate Israeli withdrawal from the Palestinian territories.

KING: Are you describing what Israel is doing as ethnic cleansing?

RACHID: I cannot call it any other way. As example, I was just hearing the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) talking about less than 100 people killed in Jenin.

KING: Right.

RACHID: But according to our information, there is more than 3,000 people missing from Jenin refugee camp. We are not saying all of them they are killed. We are not saying all of them they are injured. But definitely some of them have been killed, lots of people have been injured and lots of people they are just homeless. We don't know where they are. Let the human international organizations go in freely and check what happened and report to the world.

KING: A top aide of Mr. Arafat, who I'm sure you know, Marwan Barghouti has been captured by the Israelis. Mr. Peres says he will be recorded a public and fair trial. What's your reaction to that?

RACHID: Well, I heard that news as you did, Larry, through the media. A: He's not the top aide of Mr. Arafat. He is one of the Fatah leaders in the West Bank. He is the general secretary of Fatah in the West Bank. Now, we wish that he will receive a fair treatment from the Israeli authorities, which we hold them responsible for his life and we wish they will act very morally with this man. He was pro-peace. Everybody knows that. Lots of American journalists knows Marwan Barghouti. And they know him -- they saw him in lots of peace activities all over the world.

KING: Mr. Rachid, are you optimistic at all about any light at the end of the tunnel?

RACHID: Well, Larry, let me be very honest to you. Mr. Sharon does not have a war with us or a war with the terrorism, as he's trying to describe. Mr. Sharon's real war is with Mr. Netanyahu. That's the real war in Israeli politics. And Sharon taking this war out to our territories just to destroy the possibilities of Mr. Netanyahu's comeback. Fifty-two percent of the Israelis chose in a poll the day before yesterday -- 52 percent of the Israelis, they support strongly through the Saudi initiative for peace. What's holding his hand? We are living with a prime minister who is not describing what's his peace plan. Where is his border?

KING: Thank you, Mr. Rachid. We'll be calling upon you again. That was Mohamed Rachid, adviser to President Arafat and member of the Palestinian negotiating team.

Joining us by phone is Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator, senior aide to Mr. Arafat. It's always good to talk with him.

Shimon Peres just told us that it's going to be a matter of days, Mr. Erekat, before Israel's pullout is complete. Will that rectify the situation?

SAEB EREKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: We'll I've been hearing Mr. Shimon Peres saying that it'll be finished within days for the last 17 days. And as a matter of fact, I just heard Sharon speaking a few minutes ago, and he said that he will not withdraw immediately. That he talked about leaving certain towns in a week or so, other towns will not be evacuated. And believe that Israel is continuing defying President Bush, the international community. And really by taking this position trying to undermine Secretary Powell's mission, especially that we have some progress in working with him in the last few days.

KING: What do you expect from tomorrow's meeting between Mr. Powell and Mr. Arafat?

EREKAT: We're working on an interconnected approach that combines the security issues, the political issues and the economic issues. And Mr. Powell said to us, there will be no peace without security, and national security without peace.

It's not only that we want Israel to withdraw from the areas they occupied in the last two weeks. But we have a bigger task for peace between Palestinians and Israelis, and that is, the implementation of the relevant Security Council resolutions, especially 242 and 338, meaning ending the Israeli occupation, meaning Israel's withdrawal to the June 4, '67 border, including in Jerusalem in order to establish a state of Palestine next to the state of Israel.

And I think we have had some good meetings today with American experts. We have exchanged ideas. And I believe that we will put the outcome of these meetings in front of President Arafat and Mr. Powell in tomorrow's meetings. And I hope that they can agree on the road map that we're trying to specify for the future.

KING: Are you optimistic?

EREKAT: I'm hopeful tonight. I'm hopeful tonight after this meeting. I'm not going to weigh my stand at this moment with pessimism or optimism. I'm hopeful. We have done good work today. And I believe if -- we don't need to reinvent the wheel in defining what it takes to resolve the peace process and to get us back on track. We have it all there. We have the relevant Security Council resolutions.

Israel will live in peace and security. We have recognized Israel to live in peace and security within secure, recognized boundaries on 78 percent of historic Palestine and accept it to establish our state on the remaining 22 percent of the land, that is the West Bank and Gaza and East Jerusalem. And we hope that the formula and interconnected approach of security elements and the political elements and the economic issues can really pave the way for a serious de-escalation process, serious de-confliction process. Because once you revive the hope in the minds of Palestinians and Israelis that peace is doable, not merely by talking about peace or commitment to peace or words about peace, but showing them a real road map, because you have two very articulate constituencies, Palestinians and Israelis, and they need to see a credible road map that may convince them that peace is possible. If we reach this point, if Secretary Powell can reach this point, I think we have come a long, long, long way.

KING: So is Chairman Arafat as hopeful as you?

EREKAT: I went to see President Arafat after my meetings with the Americans today with my colleagues. And I showed him our work. He had some comments on this. And he's looking forward to continuing the discussion and making the required decisions, because there are decisions required, not by us, but by President Arafat and by Mr. Powell. And he is looking forward for this meeting in order to deliver the decisions required.

KING: Thank you, Saeb. Always good talking with you.

EREKAT: Thank you, sir.

KING: Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator and senior aide to President Yasser Arafat.

There's more LARRY KING LIVE after this.


KING: It's always a great pleasure to welcome our next two guests to LARRY KING LIVE. Here in Los Angeles, Dr. Andrew Weil, the best-selling author, renowned expert on integrative medicine. His latest, he's the co-author of, "The Healthy Kitchen: Recipes For a Better Body, Life and Spirit." There you see its cover. The co- author of the book, Rosie Daley, will join us later. And in Cincinnati is Naomi Judd, the Grammy-winning singer and songwriter who was diagnosed with the potentially fatal hepatitis C in 1991, now cured, a major believer in integrated medicine, the founder of the Naomi Judd Education and Research Fund and the spokesperson for the American Liver Foundation.

How does eating better, how does following these recipes, Dr. Weil, cure disease?

DR. ANDREW WEIL, ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE ADVOCATE: Well, I think there are many ways we can affect body processes through diet. For example, with chronic hepatitis, the damage is done to the liver by inflammation. The virus can be present, but if you can control the inflammatory response, the liver tissue is spared. Diet has a major influence on inflammation.

KING: So you would, with inflammation, do what and eat what and not eat what?

WEIL: I would get pro-inflammatory fats out of the diet. That's margarine, vegetable shortening, partially hydrogenated oils, polyunsaturated vegetable oils. I would increase consumption of omega-3 fatty acids from fish or walnuts or flax seeds. I would recommend including more herbs like ginger and turmeric that have powerful anti-inflammatory effects.

KING: Naomi, how did you pick up on Dr. Weil and this as a concept for your own problem?

NAOMI JUDD, CURED OF HEPATITIS C: I befriended Andy -- and by the way, this guy is the real deal because I have peeked inside his refrigerator. He actually walks the talk. First thing he did, talking about fats. I was raised in Kentucky to believe that gravy is a beverage. We called it fat pudding. He put me in gravy rehab. I fell off the wagon once in a great while. And I was definitely a vegetarian in between meals. So, I really cut down on my red meat. Andy, remember, one of the herbs you put me on was milk thistle, which is very soothing and protective.

KING: But how did you discover him, Naomi?

JUDD: When I was diagnosed and the big guys told me I had less than three years to live, and I just know that I'm a spiritual being having a human experience, and I didn't buy it. So I got real proactive. I'm a nurse. And I literally made a hit-list of all the experts, the real brainiacs, and I just pestered him until they met with me.

And then the good part was that they're now personal friends. Andy and I hang out together. I have watched him order in restaurants. I see that he has integrated the spirit and mind/body approach. We know that -- I'm a baby boomer, for instance. We're living longer and we have more chronic illnesses. So I think this book is so timely.

KING: Andrew, we know that if you eat well -- I mean, we now accept if you eat well, that's a very good preventative.

WEIL: Right.

KING: But there are many who would dispute whether it can cure or help once you have some?

WEIL: I think that's only because our health professionals are so poorly educated in this area. The fact is, still, medical doctors receive essentially no education about nutrition. I am working to change that. Naomi is working to change that.

KING: I was told years ago that nutrition is like six hours in a total medical school curriculum.

WEIL: I got 30 minutes.

KING: And the hardest thing to change is a medical school curriculum.

WEIL: But I am working on it. As you may know, I have talked to this program before. We now have a coalition of medical schools, a group called the Consortium of Academic Health Centers for Integrative Medicine, including schools like Duke, Harvard, Georgetown, Albert Einstein Yeshiva, Columbia, University of Arizona, UC-San Francisco, where the deans and chancellors of these institutions have recognized that medical education has to move in this direction. That would include bringing nutrition in.

KING: Naomi, can we say you are cured of hepatitis C or you have arrested it?

JUDD: No, sir. I am cured. I have been getting a lot of requests lately for interviews because of Pamela Anderson coming public with her hepatitis C. And I want to shout it from the rooftops. We're going to have four times more people die from hepatitis C in the next decade than AIDS.

Let me add a wrinkle that I don't think you all would probably be addressing, and that is that food creates moods. One of the things that Andy talks about that I have discovered and that I talk about -- I'm here in Cincinnati, Ohio for the distinguished lecture series tomorrow night, following Margaret Thatcher. Figure that one out.

But one of the things that I'm so happy about this book is that post-9/11, or any time you and I have in our individual lives ground zeroes, where do we go? We gather around that kitchen table, we want familiarity and security and comfort. And right now, of course, we know that all Americans are nesting and gathering together more than ever before. And this book is not just about fabulous recipes. If you're listening, Rosie, my favorite is the fritatta recipe. But it's really food for thought. And Andy is the deal, I call him America's doctor, because this is really a primer in basic nutrition.

KING: Let me get a break and come back with more of Dr. Andrew Weil and Naomi Judd. Tomorrow night Queen Rania of Jordan will be one of our featured guests. Don't go away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Dr. Andrew Weil, the co-author of "The Healthy Kitchen: Recipes for a Better Body, Life and Spirit," and Naomi Judd in Cincinnati, diagnosed with potentially fatal hepatitis c in 1991, who is now cured. And I know that Michael Milken says he thinks if he's not cured, arrested completely prostate cancer through diet.

There are certain types of of things that diet -- Michael J. Fox told us the other night that it has no effect on Parkinson's. He could eat anything he wants, it has no effect on a nerve disease. Is that correct?

WEIL: I think that is probably true. Although, we know the essential fatty acids, like omega 3 fatty acids are very protective of the nervous system. So people who have eaten the all their lives, may be much more resistant to whatever the injury is that causes Parkinson's Disease.

KING: Was it a tough adjustment, Naomi, to go to food that people might consider not tasty?

JUDD: No, sir. Because I --

KING: It gravy. It gravy.

JUDD: You know, it's all about awareness. And I so wanted to live. And I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. And, as I said, food really creates your moods. I just thought of this, Larry. I just flew in from doing the rainforest concert, it was at Carnegie Hall with Sting. And he said that 70 percent of all of our drugs, our pharmaceuticals come from the rainforest. I wonder if people realize that the medications, the prescriptions they're taking are usually based on plants, and I understand Michael J. Fox's situation, but when you eat right, you stimulate the body's immune system, the thymus gland being sort of the master immune gland, if you will.

And there's so many ways that food can help us to decrease the stressor hormones that are so deleterious to our health. Eighty-five percent of illnesses are stress related.

KING: How about cancer, Dr. Weil?

WEIL: Well, that's an easy one. I think it -- it is easy in the connection is very clear. I think it is admitted by most cancer researchers that there are significant environmental causes of cancer, and that diet figures prominently there. We have known classes of carcinogenic foods. And increasingly we are discovering cancer protective foods, mostly fruits and vegetables which are loaded with compounds. We keep discovering new ones that have strong anti-cancer effects.

KING: Did it emotionally help you, Naomi, changing your diet?

JUDD: Yes, it did. I haven't had a soft drink, a dark -- Andy told me the dark colas are worse for you than like a 7 Up or a Sprite. I was raised on these things. And I haven't had one in about 16 years. To tell you the honest to God truth, I don't miss it a lick. Not a lick. I really think that food is the medicine of the future.

So sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes when I go to my refrigerator and open that door, I sort of think of it as opening my medicine cabinet. And I realize that I'm an alive being. And that not only affects my mind and my moods. For instance, I'm post menopausal, so Andy has taught me a lot about soy. What we call phyto, p-h-y-t-o, plant-based foods like soy are really good for women who have a history of breast cancer and can't take some of the cancer drugs or hormone replacement therapy.

KING: Let's include a phone call. Sacramento, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry, I love your show. Hi, this is Bob in Sacramento. I love your show. Naomi Judd, you're an inspiration to all. I'd like to ask doctor if he's familiar with honey as a cure for pollen-related allergies. And if he knows anything about kidcris (ph) in Sacramento and KX-08 (ph).

WEIL: Well, actually there is a tradition of using both pollen -- local pollen and local honey as a way of naturally desensitizing the system -- has to be local to the flowers that are in your area.

KING: Isn't that heavy sugar, though.

WEIL: It is heavy sugar.

KING: I thought that sugar is bad.

WEIL: I don't think sugar is necessarily bad. Our book includes recipes that have sugar in it.

KING: Sugar?

WEIL: Sugar in moderation is OK. It can make the diet interesting. The problem is that so many people are eating so much of it. It's in everything. It's in ketchup, it's in all of our sauces. Kids are drinking these huge gulps of sodas that are full of it. In those amounts it's not so good for us.

KING: What's a food you would eliminate.

WEIL: All of the -- margarine and parclihydrogenated (ph) oils. And if you make a rule --

KING: You would ban them, if you were the ruler?

WEIL: Yes, I would. And if I were king, they're gone. And if you read your labels and see parclihydrogenated oil. If you eliminate that, at one stroke it gets rid of a whole bunch of really low quality foods.

KING: There's a good tip, and margerine. The Blue Bonnett people are on the phone. WEIL: Well, I am sorry about that.

KING: We'll take a break. And we'll be back with more right after this. Don't go away.



MICHAEL J. FOX, ACTOR: My first thought and the first doctors that saw me thought it might be some physiological think, like I hit my funny bone or something. And then I thought maybe it was some injury. And that's the line I was thinking, but it did get worse over the course of a year. And then finally my wife saw me jogging one day, and I was really kind of lopsided and my left side was obviously not functioning normally, so she urged me to go to a doctor, I did and then I was given the diagnosis.



KING: I want to say we are timely, but "Newsweek" out today, cover story, Hepatitis C, over three million Americans are infected with the stealth virus. Most don't know it.

The stealth virus. You can have it and don't know it?

WEIL: Most people find out they have it from a blood test, they have no idea how they got it.

KING: There's no pain involved?

WEIL: Often no symptoms.

KING: You say there's another type of hepatitis.

WEIL: Yes, there is another epidemic of hepatitis coming up, and I wonder if Naomi is paying attention to this, it's called NASH, Non- Alcoholic Speato (ph) Hepatitis. It basically begins with fatty liver. It's what happens to geese that are turned into foix gras (ph) where you force feed them.

The liver cells get replaced by fat cells and then inflammation develops that also can result in cirrhosis and liver failure. It's a consequence of obesity in most people. We are now breeding a generation of obese kids. This is often starting...

KING: Eating French-fried potatoes.

WEIL: Absolutely. It's the fast-food generation and all you have to do is go to a mall and look at it. It's happening in kids 3, 4. We are seeing Type II diabetes appear in young kids. We are going to start seeing this new form of hepatitis appear as well.

KING: Were you aware of that, Naomi? JUDD: I was not. Of course, that's what Andy's role is, to teach me about this stuff. Andy, I just had a thought. I want to go out with my girlfriends tonight. Can I have a margarita?

WEIL: Sure. I think occasional alcohol is fine. The big key is moderation. Moderation, Naomi. Moderation.

KING: Have you got a replacement for French fries?

WEIL: Well, Rosie, my co-author of "The Healthy Kitchen," her last book "In The Kitchen With Rosie" that she did when she was Oprah's chef has a recipe for unfried potatoes. That's probably millions of people in this country.

KING: Unfried potatoes.

WEIL: They are baked potatoes with a crusty coating. They are wonderful.

KING: A 3-year-old would enjoy them I

WEIL: Yes.

KING: South Windsor, Connecticut, Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. I have a question regarding severe food allergies. I have a 6-year-old child that is allergic to peanuts, peas, eggs, milk and kiwi. Is there anything you can recommend? Herbs, spices, anything that might at least, not cure all the allergies but maybe lessen the degree of -- that it's life threatening?

WEIL: I think the first thing is to eliminate all the potentially irritating foods, and start with a fairly simple diet and then gradually add things. And also rotate foods so he's not eating the same thing frequently. I think if you do that, if you don't eat the same thing more than every four, five days that lessens the chance of developing more allergies.

KING: Is it the good idea, if you think it's wrong to eat, you are probably right?

WEIL: I think it is. I think people know it's not right to be serving all these processed foods especially to kids. People are so pressured today they don't know how to do it. I think they have to be shown that healthy food can be delicious.

KING: Toronto, Canada, with Naomi Judd and Dr. Andrew Weil, hello.

CALLER: I'm calling from Toronto. And I have a question for Dr. Weil.


CALLER: I am suffering with uterine fibroids. I was wondering if you had any nutritional...

WEIL: I do.

CALLER: ... ideas for me. I have gone from a four centimeter to six months later it's now seven.

KING: What is this?

WEIL: These are these benign tumors of the muscle of the uterus that often form in women as they approach menopause. They are estrogenically driven, so what you want to do is try to get out of the diet extra estrogen, and the usual sources of these are commercially raised meats, poultry, dairy products and eggs.

KING: Meats!

WEIL: Estrogenic hormones are used in animals to promote weight gain. And we get residues of the hormones in those foods, so if you are going to eat, I recommend reducing animal foods in the diet. But if you're going to eat them, get ones that are certified to be drug and hormone free.

Also, eat soy because as Naomi mentioned, The phytoestrogen in Soy have a natural moderating effect on the body's own estrogen, and increase your exercise, because by doing more aerobic exercise, you're going to lower estrogen levels.

KING: Do you exercise, Naomi?

JUDD: Yes. I try.

KING: Long Beach, California. Hello.

CALLER: Good evening. My question is for Dr. Weil. What are your viewpoints on the use of herbology to treat various ailments and conditions, specifically an herb called "arthritis root?"

WEIL: Frankly, I have to say I don't know what Arthritis Root is. I would need the scientific name of that. But I mentioned earlier that ginger and turmerick (ph) are very well studied as anti- inflammatory agents. We have an HIH funded center at the University of Arizona College of Pharmacy that is studying these herbs for their anti-inflammatory effect.

I am a great believer in herbal medicine. I'm trained as a botanist before I was a medical doctor. I don't think one should stop pharmaceutical drugs suddenly. I think the quality of herbal products out there ranges from poor to questionable.

KING: There's no herbal product to equal lipitor?

WEIL: Actually, there is, Larry. It's called Chinese Red Rice Yeast Extract. It is, in fact a natural source -- it's a natural source of statin drugs but it doesn't have just one in them, like Lipitor. It has a range in them, and as a result of that, it doesn't cause liver toxicity, it doesn't cause liver problems. The FDA banned its sale here because Merck was able to get a federal court to say that nature had infringed on its patent.

JUDD: One of the things that hasn't come up that Andy goes into in detail is the fact that in 1900 we got all the nutrients that we needed on our spoon. But because of the processing, because of contamination just all sorts of political things, we now really need to take vitamins and minerals and supplements and herbs just to get the full deal.

KING: We'll take a break and come back and Rosie Daley the co- author will join us on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: In our remaining moments, we welcome Rosie Daley, co- author of "The Healthy Kitchen: Recipes for a Better Body, Life, and Spirit." She was Oprah Winfrey's personal chef and known for her smash best seller, "In the Kitchen With Rosie." How did you and Dr. Weil get together?

ROSIE DALEY, CO-AUTHOR, "THE HEALTHY KITCHEN": A lot of people thought that I was a nutritionist and that I had that kind of background, which I don't. I didn't want to misrepresent myself. Andy's got a lot of knowledge, lot of background in nutrition, so I thought it would be a good combination.

KING: So you are a chef, not a nutritionist? Did he teach you a lot?

DALEY: Yes, he did. He taught me about sprouts and about mushrooms.

KING: When you were learning to be a chef, did you learn it healthy-wise or did you learn it the old fashioned way?

DALEY: I never went to culinary school. I just learned by working in the kitchen. I am an artist, so I don't want cooking to be a dying art.

KING: What do you make of all that's happened with herbs and all this health -- I don't want to use fad -- health craze we're in?

DALEY: Actually, I have always eaten well. I gave up red meat when I was 16. I really enjoy vegetables and fruits. I haven't changed much about my diet in a long time. So I don't keep track of fads and stuff. I use herbs all the time in cooking because it makes food taste better.

KING: Was it fun writing with him?

DALEY: Yes, he has a beautiful garden. We made a lot of greens, stir fried greens at his house often. I really enjoyed his ranch. It's been fun working with Andy.

KING: Do you know Naomi.

DALEY: No, I don't.

KING: She loved one of your -- What is it you love, Naomi?

JUDD: The fritatta recipe. And Rosie, if I wrote a book it would be called "The Messy Kitchen."

DALEY: Well, I want everyone to have fun in their kitchen. If they make a mess, that's OK, just so they spend a little bit of time in there.

KING: When people hear health they think it doesn't taste good.

WEIL: Well, there is the tree and cardboard school of health food, which all of us are familiar with. We have a real emphasis on flavor.

KING: Everything tastes good?


KING: Williamsburg, Virginia. Hello.

CALLER: I'm a strong believer in food and health, but I was recently diagnosed five years ago with Epstein-Barr, and from declining health I never really thought about it or got into it, but doctors say there's no cure for it supposedly. Do you have one?

WEIL: You know, this is the virus that some people think is associated with chronic fatigue syndrome. Actually, I'm not so sure that's the cause. But if you are fatigued and have low energy, I think you can really affect how you feel by how you eat. Rosie and I both recommend that you probably cut down on protein, especially heavy protein foods, and eat more fruits and vegetables. I think that is a very good prescription that might make you feel better.

KING: As with any habit, Rosie, isn't it hard to change from nonhealth to healthy eating?

DALEY: We want people to take baby steps. We don't want people to think of black and white thinking, like today I am not going to eat, and them tomorrow I am going to overeat. I think it's a consistent eating well that could make that natural habit of eating well. So that thing about not eating or fasting for weeks and then going to get a hamburger would probably not be a good idea.

KING: Naomi was it hard for you to drop gravy?

JUDD: Nope. I would tell the gentleman who just called with Epstein-Barr and everyone with a potentially debilitating disease, that this is your ground zero. One of the good things about crisis, believe it or not, is that crisis gives us clarity and it really gives us that "umhp." In physics we say that bodies at rest tend to stay at rest.

But when you have a catastrophe, when you're faced with a crisis --means danger or opportunity in the Chinese language -- you have an opportunity to change your behaviors and start thinking in a different way. And it allows you, in my situation, and I hope in others, to start having a little bit more of a sense of control because you certainly control what you put in your mouth. By the way, I would tell the fellow with Epstein-Barr and see if you agree with me, Andy, to get vitamin B shots. Is that good?

WEIL: Sure, that's a good idea. I would also say, Naomi, that while it is true that many people I see change their behavior when they get a wake-up call, when something happens that scares them, how much better it would be if people earlier in life as a result of education and good information could make these better decisions about how to eat?

KING: What do you make of these lose weight by just drinking this substance?

WEIL: You know what I think about that. That's ridiculous.

KING: They are advertising everywhere. Body solutions.

WEIL: Didn't we hear once there's a sucker born every minute?

KING: Golden, Colorado, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Dr. Weil, what kind of foods do you eat during the day, your typical breakfast, lunch and dinner?

WEIL: The way that the food is presented in our book is really how I eat. Rosie too. I eat lots of fruits and vegetables. I eat fish. I eat some dairy products, some natural cheeses. I eat a lot of soy products and beans. I don't eat meat. I don't eat poultry.

KING: Don't eat poultry?

WEIL: Rosie eats some poultry. We're not in total agreement. I eat a lot of fresh foods. Even when I'm by myself, I cook for myself.

KING: Cereal?

WEIL: I don't eat a lot of cereal or bread.

KING: How about juice?

WEIL: Occasionally. I am happy with fruit.

KING: American Heart Association just recommended grape juice.

WEIL: Grape juice is fine. The pigments in it are strong anti- oxidants, very heart protective.

KING: Naomi, what are you going eat for dinner?

JUDD: I already ate. I think Andy would be so proud. I ate salmon and risotto. I know we're not supposed to have the white refined stuff...

WEIL: That's OK, rice is alright.

JUDD: I had a salad and -- see Tequila comes from the agave plant, so later that's going to be my dessert. I know Andy would rather I had a glass of red wine. But I have been a really good girl. I have never been drunk, so I want to clear up that. We've been talking about hepatitis...

KING: What are you going to have for dinner, Rosie?

DALEY: I hope a salad. I had a nice bowl of soup before I came. So I'm pretty set for right now.

KING: Soup is good?

WEIL: Depending what's in it.

KING: What's a bad soup?

WEIL: Cream soups.

JUDD: You know what a great bed-time snack is? Popcorn. Andy...

KING: Without the butter.

JUDD: No, no. We don't do butter.

WEIL: There are lots of things you can put on it to make it very tasty.

KING: Thank you all very much. It's been an intriguing half hour. Finally meeting you, Rosie.

DALEY: Thank you for having me.

KING: Naomi, thank you. And Dr. Weil, thank you. The book is "The Healthy Kitchen: Recipes for a Better Body, Life, and Spirit" just published.

We thank our guests earlier, and when we come back, we will tell you about what's coming up tomorrow on LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: Tomorrow night, Queen Rania of Jordan will join us to discuss the conflict in the Middle East, and Wednesday night we will switch gears a little with the most famous wrestler in the world and now movie star, The Rock.

Our own star is Judy Woodruff and Judy is sitting in for Aaron Brown tonight, so NEWSNIGHT will come to you from Washington. There is her loveliness.

Mr. Woodruff, the platform is yours.