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CNN Larry King Live

Britain's Prince William Turns 20

Aired June 20, 2002 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, the reigning royal hunk, Britain's Prince William, turns 20. Does he really want to be king? Would he accept Camilla as a step-mom? And will memories of Diana affect his pick of a princess bride some day?

Joining us from London, best-selling biographer Robert Lacey, his latest book is "Monarch."

In Washington, another best-seller, Kitty Kelley, author of "The Royals."

Back in London, the publishing director of Burke's Peerage, Harold Brooks-Baker, and with him social historian and royal watcher Philip Hoare.

They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening and welcome to another edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Prince William has turned 20 as of June 21. No official photo-ops, no big deal. Are they handling this well? Is that correct, Robert? Is 21 the big move?

ROBERT LACEY, ROYAL BIOGRAPHER: Twenty-one is going to be the big party for Prince William. The big event for him tomorrow will be England's game in soccer against Brazil. We hear you in America have no idea what soccer is, even though your team is doing just as well as ours.

And it's engrossing the nation, and Prince William will be at home with his brother, Prince Harry, and his father, Prince Charles, and a few friends watching the soccer to see what's going to happen. And apparently that's all he cares about on his birthday.

KING: Kitty Kelley, is 20 a big deal, as you see it?

KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": Well, from where I sit, Larry, 20 is a baby. First of all, let me correct Robert. We do care about soccer, and the United States is very happy at their leading position.

I think William has purposely stepped aside to low-key this birthday, Larry, because he is really the resistant heir. He does not like the media, he does not like the media circus, and he really doesn't want to be a part of it. KING: Would you agree, Harold, that the title "reluctant royal" aptly applies to him?

HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, BURKE'S PEERAGE: No, I wouldn't agree with that at all, because he's showing every sign of feeling, as most members of the House of Windsor have in recent years, that it is his duty, and he's doing his best to be an accomplished prince.

In every way he's more and more like his father. A typical renaissance prince, good at languages, good at sports, good at geography. He will soon be able to say that he has met and knows every single major ambassador from the United Kingdom throughout the world, every single leader of the Commonwealth. He is going to be very well prepared, indeed, when he gets there, and he's come a long way from the boy who sat with his hands in -- his face in his hands, almost crying at San Tropez as the reporters zoomed in on his late mother.

He shows every sign of being very strong, very well balanced, but still a compassionate person in every way.

KING: He had a right, Philip, to be called "His Royal Highness" when he turned 19. He did not like that. Why, and does that continue to be true?

PHILIP HOARE, BRITISH SOCIAL HISTORIAN: Well, I think it's interesting what both Harry -- Harold says, and Robert, and indeed Kitty, about this sort of strange paradox. I mean this chap, actually, I mean he hasn't done anything yet. He could well be facing a lifetime of duties, and 25 years until he becomes actually Prince of Wales.

One of the great things about William -- I remember seeing William following his mother's cortege the eve of her funeral, and he was sitting in the back of the car following the coffin, and his face -- the expression on his face was exactly the same as I had seen on Diana's face when I saw him in Prague at the very depths of the breakup with Charles.

And you could see this utter resentment of the tyranny of the camera lens, which really wracks on his face. That's still very much there. And yet, and yet, there is a sense of -- he is slightly more comfortable now. He's slightly more in control. I mean, this is a chap who's got 40 fan clubs on the Internet. He is, as you say, he's a teenage hunk, a star.

KING: Does he, though, not use the royal highness concept? Philip?

HOARE: Well, it's interesting. Well, it's interesting, isn't it? Well, during his gap here when he was in places like Chile, Africa, he was milking cows at 4:00 a.m. in the West Country. He insisted on being called William by friends there. "Your Royal Highness" doesn't sit well with someone of his generation.

I mean, he's someone who's a lot younger than me. For him, it must be very difficult to be saddled with that. I feel very sorry for him. Over the -- during the events of this past year, his aunt's funeral, his great grandmother's funeral, I watched him following his grandmother's coffin, again, into the abbey, and you just think, "This poor chap is up for a lifetime of duty, rights and rituals. He's got to cope with that. It's very difficult."

KING: Robert Lacey, he attends St. Andrews University in Scotland, a four-year course. His M.A., for honors degree, will be in Art History. Why?

LACEY: Well, that's his particular subject that he enjoys. Of course his grandmother, the queen, owns one of the great art collections of the world. The Windsors have traditionally been criticized for being philistines, they've been called. It certainly can't be said of William.

The queen is apparently absolutely delighted at his interest in arts, and he is doing other subjects, we might discuss, geography and things like that, but history of art is his main one. It does actually offer one prospect of a career ahead, perhaps something else we should discuss. He could become the custodian of this massive art collection, and develop all sorts of new ways of sharing it, not just with people in Britain but with the rest of the world.

So it apparently represents what he enjoys, but it may also reflect a very shrewd choice of career path in the future.

Robert, does a prince, does any of the royal -- do they have any specific duties constitutionally?

LACEY: No. The queen is the one person in the royal family who has constitutional duties. Famously signing the acts of parliament, representing Britain. Prince -- to go down through the family, Prince Philip, he's very rigidly segregated from any of that. Prince Charles steps in from time to time when his mother is away. He has rights to look at state papers, but at the moment Prince William does not, and as I understand it, the queen herself and Prince Charles are very keen to keep him away from all that side of things as long as possible and to look on the other side of things, the public duties, perhaps some military service as well before he becomes a fully-fledged royal.

KING: We'll take a break and come back with more of our outstanding panel. They're always great, on top of the scene of the royals, as we cover things in jolly old, jolly old. We'll be right back, don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back. Kitty Kelley in Washington, the tradition is the next thing is service in the army. Is that what you hear he will do?

KELLEY: Indeed. And it is a tradition throughout the royal family, historically, to go into military service, and I think that William will do that, and I think he'll probably go into the army, which will be a very good thing. And Robert's right in that he's chosen a field which the British press has said is quite elitist. Art history is something that usually is pursued by the rich and the privileged, but I think now in the 21st century with the era of the Internet, William really could do some wonderful, wonderful things, and I think it's to be applauded that anybody in the royal family is going to seek a college degree.

KING: Harold, if he went into the army, would he be kept out of a danger zone if Britain say -- like Kosovo -- or forced to send troops to the Middle East or somewhere, would he be not sent?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, you notice -- you remember very well, Larry, that his uncle, the Duke of York, was sent to Argentina during the Falklands War, and he was extremely brave.

I don't think he'll be kept out altogether. He may not be in the front line, but he'd be very close to it. These princes feel that they need a well-rounded education in every way, and he's not the kind of fellow who is going to flinch.

He probably would insist on having the same experiences that others have. And remember that this monarchy isn't just a sugar coated pill. It is a monarchy in which the monarch herself -- one day there will be a king again -- has tremendous power.

Elizabeth II chose a prime minister on her own, Douglas Hume (ph), against the wishes of many members of the Tory party at the time. She declares war, she dissolves parliament. There is a great deal of learning necessary ahead for Prince William, and there is no question that Prince William has to know about war and the sadnesses that go with it before he is ready to be monarch.

KING: Philip, how would you describe his relationship with his younger brother and with his father?

HOARE: Very good. Very good. I mean, the whole business of Harry's unfortunate brush with drink and drugs this year was -- it was a great example of how close they are, and of course you can always see the physical contact between the prince and his sons -- Prince Charles, that is -- and William and Harry, and in photographs.

Just to go back earlier to what we were saying about his course at St. Andrews, well, in fact he's changing in the autumn, when he goes back to St. Andrews. He's going to be doing geography. I find that very disappointing, because I thought he was going to be the first great art historian in the family, not a family known for its artistic leanings, but I understand he's changing -- he did actually get an "A" level in geography, so I heard that he was changing.

But I think this great thing about William is that he's so media -- I wouldn't say friendly -- but media aware, and an interview he gave last year, just as he was going out to college, was incredibly open about what he felt about going to college. He said -- he actually refused to go to the Fresher's Week (ph), which is the great sort of bun-fight that opens up your college year, because he said, "I'd probably get completely wrecked and end up in a gutter somewhere."

Because he said that before Harry's brushes, but I think he's doing pretty well there.

KING: Robert, what is his feelings for, and relationship with Camilla, and part two, is there a likelihood of a marriage there, Charles and Camilla?

LACEY: Look, just before we get on to that fascinating subject, just a word more on geography. Philip is, I'm afraid, wrong about him actually changing.

He's bringing in geography as one of his modules, but he's continuing with history of art, and in fact, apparently, geography was always one of his subjects. But there has been a story to that effect in the British press.

There was also a story to the effect that he wasn't enjoying himself at St. Andrews, when in fact he'd just come back at Christmas and didn't want to go back afterwards, quite understandably.

Now, the important question, Camilla. He gets on very well with Camilla. In fact, he's going to be spending a lot of time with her this summer. One of the consequences of the Queen Mother's death, is that Burt Hall (ph), quite a grand house on the Balmoral estate, where the Queen Mother used to stay, is now Prince Charles', and apparently he and the boys are looking forward to spending a lot of time there, away from the photo lenses that Philip and Harold mentioned earlier, and Camilla will be there.

There's no doubt at all that there's an extended royal family there which Wills gets great pleasure from. Is Charles going to marry Camilla? I myself believe it's going to happen pretty soon, and from all we hear, William is very happy at anything that's going to make his father happy, and that includes a relationship, and a permanent relationship now, with Camilla.

KING: Kitty, it's very interesting to hear that the British press occasionally gets some things wrong. The American press hardly ever does.

KELLEY: That's true.

KING: What do you think about Camilla and Charles, Kitty? What do you hear on the left side of the map?

I hear the very same thing, that it is inevitable, it's just a matter of time, and I'm sure that when they do get married, Larry, Wills, as he likes to be called, Prince William, will be at Camilla's side, really signaling to everyone his approval.

Back to the media business, Larry. We are talking about a young prince who does not really like the media, and it's interesting, because for the monarchy in the 21st century, it's a matter of being in step with the media. The monarchy will need the media, in a way, and yet William is so anti-media that when he heard there was a film planned of the five years since his mother died he really wanted to bring a lawsuit and had to be talked out of it. This is a young man that's very, very guarded about the media.

KING: How do you explain, Harold -- the public loved Diana so much, she passes away. We learn that Charles had a relationship with Camilla while married to Diana, yet we have tremendous apparent public acceptance of Camilla. How do you explain that?

BROOKS-BAKER: I think that most people accepted as fact the statement by the Prince Of Wales on television that he had not started, restarted the affair with Camilla Parker Bowles until after his marriage had finally broken down.

He is not only a truthful man, but he is a very elegant person, and the children know that. They know they can believe in their father, just as of course they love their mother very, very much. But I think that all that they've been through would be too much for some people, but not for these two young princes. They seem to be holding their own beautifully, and I wouldn't worry about their coming out badly when it's all over; that is, the new inquest into the death of the late princess of Wales.

KING: We'll take a break and we'll be right back. By the way, Monday night on LARRY KING LIVE, our special guest will be the parents of the late Danny Pearl, the "Wall Street Journal" reporter who was, as you know, assassinated brutally.

This will be their first media appearance, the parents of Danny Pearl on Monday night. Tomorrow, more on the Elizabeth Smart case that still goes on in Salt Lake. Right back with our panel on the royals after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with our panel from great Britain and Washington, discussing lots of things, including William's forthcoming 20th birthday.

There's been a campaign, Philip, on behalf of Camilla, PR department, everything going strong. Do you expect a wedding, as Robert does? Do you expect another big media event there?

HOARE: I'm not privy to that information. I think it's interesting, because there is definitely a big Camilla camp, and there's a big machine, a big spin machine behind her, too, and almost to the point of manipulation in a way.

Her whole family, actually, possibly involved in this. It's interesting to think that's going on, because the whole thing now is so politicized, so media aware, that you know, you've got Charles' camp spinning for his part, you've got Camilla for her, you've got all these sorts of -- and sometimes they are fighting. I know that Charles' man Mark Burton (ph) is very much accused of being all-out just to get his boss' name in the papers, whatever the cost.

I know that some people have suggested that horrible episode earlier, when Prince Edward's film company, Ardent, were found filming at St. Andrews. The suggestion has been that Charles, in fact, has very little sympathy for Edward and had communicated this to his press representative, and that was the result, that Edward was sort of a fall guy.

I don't know how much I believe that, but I think, you know, the whole thing with Charles and Camilla -- Charles needs another Queen Mother now. It was very interesting when you heard him talking in that terribly passionate speech, when he was talking about his grandmother, when she died. It's very interesting that it was about his suffering, about the way he felt, and that really points up what that relationship meant.

It was -- the Queen Mother was Charles' great supporter in a way that his parents -- his parents have less sympathy for Charles, sometimes, and for what he does.

KING: Does this mean, Robert, there's a tendency to play down Diana? I'm told that except for a cardboard cut-out at the jubilee celebration, there was virtually no indication that Diana played any part in the 50 years of the queen's reign.

LACEY: I think that's absolutely true. In fact, one could argue that the whole spirit of the jubilee owed an enormous amount to Diana. Would there have been a pop concert in the grounds of Buckingham Palace if it hadn't been for the great shock that Diana administered to the monarchy?

I myself would say that she was in one sense behind it all. You see, at the time she died, there was this battle behind the scenes in Buckingham Palace between the queen herself and her advisers, who wanted her to be much more overt in her expressions of regret at Diana's death, and she resisted.

The famous battle, of course, was over refusing to lower the flagpole over Buckingham Palace, which everybody outside the palace and inside the palace wanted the queen to do and which she, with her husband's backing, refused to do until there was something like a national revolt.

We're told that when she came down after that and saw the flowers outside the palace, she was absolutely amazed. Someone said she was like a stunned fish, and she acknowledged that her advisers were correct. So when, for the jubilee, her advisers say, "Right, let's fill the mall with dancing girls, let's have gospel singers instead of soldiers." In the past the queen might have said yes -- because of that trauma -- sorry, the queen might have said no.

Because of the trauma, the queen said yes. And so I think it's fair to say that Diana has been written out of history, though, of course, she lives in that ghostly echo she has in the features of her son Prince William.

KING: Speaking of that, Kitty, what about William's love life? There are reports that some tabloids try to send blondes out just to meet him, that he prefers a certain type. Is all that true?

KELLEY: It is true, Larry. He does love, or he's very attracted to tall, leggy blondes, not unlike his mother. And so the tabloids are sending blondes in.

They call them honey pots in hopes that he might flirt and slip and they would get a story. He's very cautious, as I've said over and over. He does not take young women out in public. He can't go into a restaurant. He bemoans the fact that he can't take a date out for a drink. He's very, very guarded.

He knows that any move he makes will be reported, and so he takes young women to a little house that the queen gave him on the Balmoral estate. But right now, there's a woman by the name of Bush, amazingly, last name, not Lauren Bush, the model, but a woman in London who is a good friend, but there really right now is nobody that I can find out that he's very close to.

KING: Now Harold, we know that -- or the reports were, that Diana, when she married Charles, had a total lack of a sexual history. Is it some sort of requirement? Must William marry a virgin?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, first of all, times have changed for better or for worse.

KING: Yes.

BROOKS-BAKER: The late princess of Wales' uncle Lord Fermoy issued a statement to the press just before the marriage that she was indeed a virgin. I believe and most people believe that she was a virgin. It was considered necessary and sensible at that time -- no longer.

So I think that you can put a line under that and say that the world has changed enough so that it will not be necessary for him to hunt down a virgin. I mean, certainly when the Emperor Bokassa had his installation as the emperor of the central African empire, he had to find 13 vestal virgins, as Napoleon had had, and it took them three months to find them, and they were very young indeed.

No, those were days of the past, so let's get on with it and see what he's going to do. My feeling is that he'll be very well prepared in every way, that he will choose a girl from a very educated family, not necessarily aristocratic, but possibly, who is likely to be British.

The idea of a German princess is unlikely, though it is -- it cannot be ruled out. He himself won't know what he's going to do, of course, but he'll probably marry a lot earlier than you think.

And in the article that I wrote for "Newsweek" magazine some time ago about the hope that many people have that he should be the next king, he's proving in a way that what I wrote had some foundation, because the people really want him.

Now, this, however, is not completely a popularity contest, however the popularity of the monarch in Great Britain today is more important than it has ever been in the past. Therefore, there could be a referendum in favor of the monarchy or in favor of a republic some time in the future, and if that happens, you must realize that Prince William and his father better be as popular then as they are now.

So far, so good. It's very impressive. The monarchy has never been as popular as it is right now.

KING: Philip, what, for lack of a better term, wouldn't you want to be nuts to marry to the royal family?

HOARE: I think you're completely right, Larry. I mean, what a life. I think it's very interesting. There is -- germane to what Harold was just talking about, there was a poll today, or yesterday rather, among teenagers in which they were talking about who would they vote for as president if we got rid of the monarchy. And some extraordinary percentage voted for William as president. So, poor chap can't even escape even if we have a republic.

But I just find -- this Monday I was at the -- I was at Windsor Castle for the Order de Gatta (ph) ceremony, this extraordinary ceremony of medieval splendor at Windsor Castle where you have the kings and queens of Europe gather to process along the drive of Windsor Castle. And it just struck me how extraordinary and archaic these things we surround ourselves with are in England.

KING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HOARE: And, incidentally, on the next night, I went to see a film -- I saw a film at the National Film Theater about the Sex Pistols, a punk band in 1977 during the Silver Jubilee. And I just thought, wow, you know, I mean (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I was a punk, I was singing those songs. And I just think, you know, amazingly, 25 years later, the same rituals are in place. Are we never going to be free of them? And that's what -- that's what I think about William, is that he's sort of slightly doomed to this life.

KING: I got to get a break, and we'll come right back. We'll re-introduce our guests when we do. Don't forget tomorrow night, we're going to do another major show looking at the dilemma of the missing girl Elizabeth Smart in Salt Lake City. Her parents were with us last night.

And on Monday night, the parents of Danny Pearl, in their first media appearance ever. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE, as we look at the birthday tomorrow, the 20th birthday tomorrow of Prince William. In London is Robert Lacey, the best-selling biographer, veteran royal watcher. His new book and latest is "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II."

In Washington, Kitty Kelley, best-selling author of "The Royals." She is currently working on a book about the Bush family dynasty.

In London is Harold Brooks-Baker, publishing director of "Burke's Peerage." And Philip Hoare, as well in London, biographer, social historian, has written often about the royals.

This go around, we'll start with Kitty Kelley. Did I hear you laugh when I said you'd have to be nuts to marry into the royal family?

KELLEY: Yes, I did start laughing, Larry. On the other hand, they can't complain. They have got absolutely everything. Yes, it is a life of duty, rituals and rights. But it is a life that is rich and full and can be whatever, ever they want. So I really don't think there's room for complaint. I also think that we are talking about a monarch of people with the British, and I don't think we're going to have to worry about Britain going Republican any time soon.

KING: Robert, any word at all about the queen possibly abdicating so Charles can be king?

LACEY: I'll just come down (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I just want to take up Kitty's remark about us being a monarchical people. It seems that you lot are too because the moment it was announced that Prince William was applying to St. Andrews University to study history of art, there was an immense flood of applications from guess where? North America, the United States.

KELLEY: No question about it, Robert.

LACEY: And guess what (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of these applicants were. They were...

KING: From leggy blondes.

LACEY: They were all young -- from leggy American blondes and they're all in St. Andrews now chasing after poor Wills. And what a terrible life he must be having.

KELLEY: You see?

LACEY: We feel for him.

No, but seriously, seriously, yes. Now, on the constitutional point you raised there, Larry, on the queen abdicating, well, it's a frequent topic of conversation. Of course, abdication is a loaded word in British history, but now it's usually used in the benign sense, the feeling the queen's done a lot of hard work, doesn't she deserve to retire?

But she, as I'm sure you're aware, in her jubilee speech to both houses of parliament, said, no, she was going to go on but she said interestingly, she introduced a new phrase. She intends to go on with the support of her family. And that seems to mean that we're going to see a Windsors united in the future, a much more teamwork monarchy with Prince Charles taking more part, and in due course, Prince William taking more part.

Incidentally, Philip mentioned earlier, and so did Harold, the wish of William to get involved in royal duties. It was just revealed the other day that after September the 11th, Prince William was rather disappointed that his grandmother and father, Prince Charles, went to some balls (ph), and he wasn't invited as well. He felt that it was an occasion where he would have liked to be seen in public playing his own part.

KING: Harold, speculate for me, what kind of king would Charles be?

BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think that since Prince Charles is definitely a renaissance character interested in absolutely everything, and in everybody's life from the cradle to the grave, he would be a very appealing, much loved king.

But his mother will be there until she dies because she's an anointed monarch and has pledged her word to God that she will remain on the throne until the very end. And Prince Charles will probably be in his late 70s by the time his turn comes. And my feeling is that he will alter the ceremony for himself so that he will be able to step down. He will be able to abdicate, which the queen today cannot do, and probably he would take the throne for a very short time and then hand it over to his son.

So that would make him a very popular monarch indeed, because at the rate things are moving, Prince William will be the most loved man in the world, just as his late mother was the most loved woman in the world.

KING: Philip, barring accident or some sort of reclamation of nature, William is going to be king, correct? What kind do you think or is it too early to tell?

HOARE: Well, I love to be corrected by Robert on the idea that he's going ahead with his history of art, because I have this great fantasy of actually a true renaissance man, somebody who really does appeal to everyone. And I think when you see that footage of William on his gapiere (ph) sort of throwing in his lot with the common man, it's quite interesting because he really does actually relate to people in a very normal way.

That's so much his mother's legacy, and it's not Charles', although Charles is a charming man. But he just -- he cannot communicate in that way. It's like going back again, where I said on Monday I was at the garter (ph) ceremony. Well, I suddenly thought the queen processing down there, she didn't have a smile for anyone, sadly, and it was such a sort of contrast to the jubilee, although celebrations there, and I thought maybe that key sea change hasn't happened.

And so we're going to have to leap two generations for that to happen. We're going to have to go to William for that to happen. Who knows what the world will look like by the time William gets to be king, if he does. It will be a very different world, but I kind of think he'll be able to take us with him. You know, if we are still a monarchical type country, I think William, actually, will make a good fist of it.

KING: We'll be right back with more of our panel with the royals. Tomorrow night, more of the Elizabeth Smart mystery in the States. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Robert Lacey, how is young Harry doing? We heard about his troubles -- the drinking, the marijuana. Is he OK?

LACEY: One of the priorities this summer holiday is going to be for Prince William to spend more time with Harry. It's thought that one of the things that went wrong last summer when this experimenting took place -- that Harry was home alone, and Charles was away, and William wasn't with him enough.

But your mention of Harry, I think, raises a big question about William. Here we all are saying what a great bloke he is, and certainly the popularity polls in Britain couldn't be better, but I would predict to you that one day before too long, Larry, you're going to convene this royal panel to be discussing something that William has been discovered to have done wrong, some indiscretion. I mean, the man is not perfect. He's not even a man yet.

And so the misadventures that Harry got involved in hold a big lesson for William, and of course in them we are told William was exemplary. He was the young man who had the idea of sending Harry to a rehabilitation center, not for actually a rehab course, but just to see what it was like. And who knows what sort of experimenting William is up to, and what may come to light.

KING: Kitty, does Princess Di's family have any influence on their grandchildren or their nieces or their nephews?

KELLEY: Unfortunately, Larry, they don't. When you were talking about the jubilee and cutting Diana out, much like the Russians did, how they painted the czars out and just left one standing. Had they included maybe the Spencer family on the balcony, or had they included the Spencer family in something, it would have been a nod to the country that Diana is still remembered.

Her family has absolutely no influence on the young boys. The influence, though, of Prince Harry, I think, on William, is going to be stronger than vice versa. Because Harry is a let' em fly young man full of lark and hark and carrying on. This is a young man who wants to be -- who was that wonderful skier? Jean-Claude Killy. That's all he really cares about. He's a passionate sportsman, he's daring. William is more guarded. Now, unfortunately, neither one sees very much of the Spencer side of the family.

KING: By whose choice is that, Harold? Why can't grandparents see their grandchildren? BROOKS-BAKER: I think it's perfectly obvious that Prince William and his brother have made their own decisions in this. They're not being precluded from seeing Lord Spencer or anyone else in the mother's family. I understand on rather good authority that whenever the late princess of Wales' name comes up within the House Of Windsor, everyone is very respectful.

No one ever says anything that is unkind. And yet, you have to remember that the princess of Wales, for all her charm and beauty and good works, was pretty harsh on the House Of Windsor, and did a considerable amount of harm to the whole idea of monarchy.

The children, I think, today don't want to be involved in anything that smacks of controversy, the type of controversy which indeed weakened the day-to-day life of the monarch. It is something in the past. She has been eclipsed temporarily, the late princess of Wales has, but you will see that she will become like the late empress of Austria, Elizabeth, very popular in a few years' time again, and will live on as one of the great saints of our era.

But right now it's a bit too soon, and it's too soon for the children to be involved in any type of controversy.

KING: We will take a break, come back with our remaining moments with Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Harold Brooks-Baker, and Philip Hoare.

Tomorrow night, more on the puzzling disappearance of Elizabeth Smart in Salt Lake City. This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: A couple of other quick things for our panel. Philip, what do you make of Fergie having her own talk show?

HOARE: Well, good for her. You know, she's a go-getting person. You know, she's her own person, and -- I mean, it's going back to what we were saying about Diana earlier. I think there's a sense in a way -- you must remember that this -- that terrible drama that was being played out over William and Harry's heads between their parents, you know, in a way it might have been a relief for William and Harry when sort of Diana died.

I mean, that's a horrible thing to say, but in a way the terrible reverberations -- you know, these -- their parents appearing, you know, in rival newspapers, rival television broadcasts. It's a terrible thing to grow up with. And I think it's true what we were saying earlier, that Harry is much more hard-headed. I know that when Diana died, there was an attempt made to really make him feel what had happened. You know, the family really tried to get through to him, and he sort of kicked against that, whereas William is much more sensitive. I mean, he is like his mother.

And so I think that the legacy of Diana, as Harold says, you can't get rid of that so easily. It's very heavily there. And it will be -- come back to haunt them. KING: Kitty, what do you think of ABC doing a made-for- television movie about Prince William? He is going to be played by Jordan Frieda, and his mother is the Scottish pop singer/actress Lulu. What do you make of that?

KELLEY: You know, Larry, I think it's probably going to be ridiculed by the critics, but it will probably get high, high ratings, and we'll probably be back here talking about it, comparing does she really look like the princess of Wales? It does show you how very much it -- she, the memory of this beautiful woman, has become part of our culture. And even though she's dead, we don't want to give her up.

KING: Is, Robert Lacey, is the queen a doting mother -- grandmother, rather, toward William?

LACEY: Definitely, yes. She's a better grandmother than she was a mother. I mean, the really surprising relationship across the generations is actually between Prince William and Prince Philip. I think maybe I heard Kitty there wondering if the queen could dote over anybody -- maybe she's right about that. But certainly, they -- Prince Philip I think is definitely very close to Prince William. We know this.

Prince Philip, let's not forget, came from a broken home himself. His parents divorced with just the sort of embarrassment that Philip's been talking about in the 1930s, his father went off to Monte Carlo with a mistress. His mother had the most embarrassing sort of fantasies that she was having sexual relations with Jesus Christ and other religious figures and had to be locked away in a sanatorium.

And it's interesting, on occasions when there have been skiing holidays in prospect, William, with his hatred of the press, has decided to stay at home with grandpa Philip rather than go out and face the world. There's a lot of cross-pollination between those generations.

KING: Harold, is there concern about security and the royals? After 9/11, we're all more security conscious. Is that beefed up?

BROOKS-BAKER: It has been to a certain degree, and there is a lot of concern about it. One of the problems is that there are cousins on the continent who still retain thrones -- there are nine in all -- have no worries. They, each one of them, can go shopping, each one of them can do this and that and the other thing the way you and I do. But this family can't. Ireland and the problems in Ireland have precluded that for a very long time.

And yet, the House of Windsor tries to have as few guards as possible. There is by no stretch of the imagination the kind of security that the American president has when they go shopping or if they go to a film, but of course they really can't do anything very easily alone. And the idea that the monarch in this country or indeed her closest relations are in danger seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. This is very distressing, because they cannot do their work properly if they live in that fear. KING: Thank you all very much. Always great having you with us. Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Harold Brooks-Baker and Philip Hoare.

Tomorrow night, we'll continue our look at the dilemma of what happened to Elizabeth Smart as we go again to Salt Lake City and have a panel of experts, including former FBI as well, delving into this unusual situation that kind of boggles the mind.

Over the weekend, two editions of news weekend -- of LARRY KING WEEKEND -- I've got "NEWSNIGHT" and weekends combined -- and that will feature highlights of previous shows. And then we're back Monday night with the first interview ever with Danny Pearl's parents.

Stay tuned for Aaron Brown and "NEWSNIGHT" next. I'm Larry King. Thanks for joining us. Good night.

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