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CNN Larry King Live
Panel Discusses Prince Harry's Life
Aired September 17, 2002 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Britain's royal wild child turns 18. Princess Diana's youngest son, Prince Harry, pledges to continue his mom's good works, but has he really outgrown his rebellious party boy image? What would it take for Harry and his older brother, William, to be fit for the throne? And will their father, Prince Charles, ever marry Camilla Parker-Bowles?
Joining us tonight from New York, best-selling biographer, veteran royal watcher, Robert Lacey. His latest book is "Monarch."
In Washington, another best-seller, Kitty Kelley, author of "The Royals."
In London, another best-selling author and royal watcher, Hugo Vickers and Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of "Burke's Peerage."
The coming of age of the playboy prince next on LARRY KING LIVE.
And by the way, during this opening segment, we'll be showing some extraordinary photographs -- these are photographs taken by Mario Testino (ph), of young Harry and they were done recently. And we're going to show them to you as we discuss him.
And Robert Lacey, why is Harry turning 18 a story?
ROBERT LACEY, ROYAL BIOGRAPHER: Well, it's a coming of age, obviously. There's the magic of one of Diana's boys, the boy we saw walking so bravely through the streets at his mother's funeral. And of course, as you've already made clear, there is this intriguing aspect of the wicked Harry. Is he going to be the new black sheep of the royal family?
The success of the British monarchy depends so much on the characters of the people concerned. And it's been through some bad times in the 1990s and a lot of the hopes for the monarchy in the future rest upon Harry's character.
KING: Do you buy the concept, Kitty, that he has changed, that he -- the wild ways are done. He's going to get involved with charities and the like. He's different.
KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": I think we're seeing a new side to him. No, I don't think Harry's changed, but I do think the embracing of the charities is a wonderful tribute to mother. As a matter of fact, we've had a lot of news stories lately about people in the news whose children have been busted for drugs and drinking. And Harry could give a good lesson to Al Gore's son, to President Bush's daughters. I mean it's a very wise and helpful thing to do.
KING: Do you, Hugo, think that it's a significant change or do you think that still part of that tread on Harry's soil?
HUGO VICKERS, ROYAL BIOGRAPHER: Well, I think that it's always very good for a teenager at the age of 18 to be looking outwards instead of inwards and what he's going to be -- have an opportunity to do is to learn an awful lot and to contribute things. And he'll probably discover that the world out there is a much more interesting place then a place to kind of fool around in, which inevitably he's done a certain amount of in the last few months.
KING: Harold Brooks-Baker, is the -- is -- are we being fair in calling him the wild child? Was he? Is it all true about pot smoking and drinking and the like?
HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, "BURKE'S PEERAGE": Well, I think that he experimented the way many young people do today. And young people have always experimented with something or other over hundreds of years.
I think the great problem is that there is no real place for the second in line, to have the heir and then as the newspaper said, the spare. It sounded very good at the time, but the spare usually ends up in despair, as poor Princess Margaret did, as my friend Charles of Luxembourg, who is the brother of the Grand Duke -- did. The guy who is waiting in line usually has nothing to do except wait.
In America, they used to say that the vice president has nothing on his mind except the health of the president. And in a way, that is all that poor Harry has, except now, he's latched on to the idea of furthering his late mother's charity work and that might save him. It'll certainly help a great many people, as, indeed, she did.
KING: It is, is it not, Robert Lacey, very difficult to be second in line? I mean barring unexpected things, he's never going to be king.
LACEY: As -- Harold's just put his finger right on it. I mean William's got an easy job. He is the heir and you know there are problems that go with that. Recently, in the British press, there's been much speculation as to whether poor William is going bald already, and has got a bald spot and that's not a nice thing for a young kid to have to deal with. But Harry has the more difficult job, to define what a spare is.
And interesting -- when Harold mentioned there Princess Margaret, she saw it as a tragedy, the fact she wasn't queen. Of course, being in a position like this is a tremendous springboard for yourself and for all the good you can do. And I think by looking at his mother's example and looking out, as Hugo says, he's already showing very promising signs of developing something new.
KING: Are the brothers close, Kitty?
KELLEY: They're very close, Larry. They bonded very closely during their parents' divorce and they became very close during their mother's awful death. They are close, and I think that William goes out of his way to be quite protective of Harry.
You know I think the real news story would be Harry turns 18 and declares himself interested in a profession so that the baby son of the most dysfunctional family in the world might be interested in getting a job.
KING: How about that?
KELLEY: Then we'd have a news story.
KING: Hugo, what are the possibilities that Harry might go to work?
VICKERS: Well, I think he is going to work. And actually, I rather disagree with all that and I think that the sort of work that he is doing is exactly right because you wouldn't necessarily invent a hereditary monarchy, but since we have one, you have a boy who's 18, who's grown up, people want to see him, he wants to see him. He can go out and he can achieve a lot.
And as I said before, he can learn a lot, much better actually than going into the competitive market. We've seen a certain amount of trouble particularly with Prince Edward and his various problems when he tries to take a so-called normal job. No, I think this is a much better solution.
KING: Harold, does he -- does this involvement with the charities, is this like a full-time thing? Is he going to be involved where he one day becomes director of this? This is going to take him around the clock?
VICKERS: Well, I think that it's too early to tell. However, many ordinary jobs will be denied him, for the simple reason that people are frightened, and the palace is even more frightened of seeing him face the same problems that Prince Edward did. In other words, people trying to get at him and use him because he is a member of the royal family.
So there's no reason why he shouldn't have many interests. He could obviously go into one of the services, which is usual and he could carry on the charity work. There are many things he can do, but what he must do is to develop a life of his own and not just a life waiting to see if his brother carries on.
KING: Where does he...
VICKERS: Remember when...
KING: I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry, go ahead.
VICKERS: ... when the Duke of Windsor stepped down -- when the Duke of Windsor stepped down as Edward VIII, his brother was not prepared for that post. And George VI took quite a time to adjust, probably never really adjusted. His strong, able, attractive wife, the late Queen Mother, made it possible, and helped him become one of the most popular monarchs in history, but it was never really quite right.
I think that you need to have a two-tier system here. One, a man, as he grows into manhood, who has a life of his own, but is prepared to take over, if anything should happen to the heir or the king and this is a job that no one envies. To be poor Prince Harry is the last job in the world any intelligent person would wish to have.
KING: Prince Harry turns 18. We'll continue. We're going to go to your phone calls very quickly and we'll get in a lot of calls tonight for Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Hugo Vickers, and Harold Brooks-Baker.
This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE HARRY: Who's going? Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harry, you've got to move because you're going to be hurt.
PRINCE HARRY: Kick it in there. How could I reach that? That's more easier. It's better. It makes me look good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We'll be dispersing calls momentarily.
Robert Lacey, is it true that Harry was quite angry over the coverage of the fifth anniversary of Di's death, anger over a new book by her former bodyguard, anger over the way she has been kind of treated by the press? Is it true?
LACEY: That seems to be in the impetuous for this identity he's forging on his 18th birthday. Apparently, at the beginning of the summer, his father said, Look, it's coming up. You're going to have to pose. You're going to have to come out in the open more -- something that neither boy really likes doing.
And they spent the summer together, William and Harry. Their father organized a shooting lodge for them up in Scotland, where they could spend time on their own with girlfriends, drink, whatever. I mean it was decided that for security reasons, they couldn't go to Europe, to beach holidays, and apparently, Harry and William spent a lot of time talking to each other.
And then, this book came out just on the anniversary of their mother's death, the fifth anniversary of their mother's death. And they both felt -- they were both outraged that somebody whose job was to keep things secret should be blowing the gaffe. And so, yes, it certainly prompted Harry, apparently, only three or four week ago to say, "I want to remind people of what a gutsy woman" -- that was his word -- "my mother was."
KING: Let's include some phone calls as we move a long.
Greensboro, North Carolina, hello.
CALLER: Hello, my question is, has Prince Harry shown interest in a particular charitable group in which Princess Di had been involved?
KING: Kitty?
KELLEY: He has indeed, Great Ormond Street Hospital For Sick Children. He wants to get involved in a charity that deals with AIDS. The money from the pictures that you've been seeing and will see on this program will be donated to a charity called MERLIN, which deals with third world causes.
And he went to visit each one of these and he has expressed interest in becoming involved in his mother's charities. Of course, he's going back to school, and he can't do it full time, but what he wants to do in his gap year, he said, is play professional polio and do it for charity matches.
KING: Now, explain that. He doesn't go -- he gets off school a year? Where is he, like, a high school graduate?
KELLEY: Well, he's at Eaton now, and he has one more year and then, he gets what they call a gap year, which is a year William chose to go to Australia and to work and do charity work as well. Harry's made it quite clear that he, too, wants to go to Australia, but doesn't want to do what William did. He would like to play polo and he'd like to do it for charity.
Now, his father is not pleased with that because, as we all know, polo is a rich playboy sport, rather elitist and terribly social. It's also very dangerous, but then Prince Charles was quite a polo player in his day.
KING: Victoria, British Columbia, hello.
CALLER: Hello, can anyone speculate as to how the princes' lives would have turned out had their mother not died when she did?
KING: Hugo, do you want to take that one?
VICKERS: Yes, it's a difficult question, really. I think that the bond that they've forged with their father, which was always very strong, but we were never really allowed to see it. It has developed, obviously, in a way. It might not have done quite the same way had Princess Diana stayed alive.
But of course, they would have always been drawn to him and the sort of things that he could offer them at the age they were. I think they have got on terribly well with him. I think he's been a very good father and friend to them over these difficult five years.
And I think that the fact that now he wants to do something -- Prince Harry wants to do something as it were sort of in the memory of his mother is actually the best possible way that her work could be carried forward. It seems to me to be a very nicely moderated way of doing things and without any of the attendant hysteria that has attached to her name particularly in the last few months of her life and since she died.
KING: Harold, the History Channel recently did a poll of 1,000 Brits and they rank Diana's death in 1997 as the most significant thing to happen in their nation in the past 100 years. World War II was number two. Women getting the right to vote was number three. Does that shock you?
BROOKS-BAKER: No, I think it's exactly what I would expect. The love and devotion that the people of this country had for the Queen Mother and for the late Princess of Wales is extraordinary.
And I don't think that it was really understood by all those in authority, either those at Buckingham Palace or those in politics. The -- this love and devotion is such an extraordinary thing that it probably doesn't exist in any country today, nor has it ever really existed.
And you will be certain that the late Princess of Wales will be remembered for 1,000 years from now, and probably she'll be more adored 1,000 years from now then she is right now, and that is really saying something.
Elizabeth of Austria also has grown in importance over the years, but we're going through a period after the mourning period when people are rather quiet. But don't kid yourself, there are very few people who come along in history of this stature that create the amount of devotion that these people have.
KING: Elliott Lake, Ontario, hello.
CALLER: Hello and thank you very much for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: We were wondering if perhaps because this young man has been referred to as the spare in all of these years if -- are there any plans afoot, or is he presently being groomed for any part of the government, or to take over from his brother should anything happen?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: Well, I'm going to join in here with what Hugo was saying earlier. We're going to gang up against Kitty.
What Harry has got to do here is a job. I mean it's not a job where you go to work and you pick up your pay packet at the end of the week, but there are -- but these public occasions, for example, that he attends, here we are, we're watching him at our memorial for September 11 this week.
Now, one of the jobs that the British royal family does is represent Britain to the British people and to the world. And we find, and we find many people around the world, are the more moved when a member of the royal family like Prince Charles and his sons turn up and represent. Your Americans are more touched by watching this, and quite rightly so, then just by some hack politicians turning up to do it although politicians also have a job to do.
So the other area of course is charity work. In Britain, the whole field of philanthropy gets an enormous boost from members of the royal family. They choose their charities very carefully. They study them. They find out what's important about them when they go to one of these meetings. They don't just turn up. They've studied. They've found out who they'll be meeting, why they are important. It's an immensely difficult and consuming task. Of course, the queen's done it superbly.
And yes, to answer, finally, your question, yes, that is the job for which Harry is being groomed and it's a job in its own right, whether or not he ever becomes king and has to take over from William.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more and more of your phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
LACEY: ... circumstances and so, all is considered to be well. But certainly, there's no animosity of any kind.
KING: By the way, Kitty, are they going to get married?
KELLEY: I would say absolutely, Larry, and I'd say that we will probably see a wedding in the year 2004. I think that they wanted to wait until after the queen's jubilee. I think that Charles has been very adroit in moving the Church of England to allow divorced people to now remarry. And I think we definitely will see a marriage.
KING: Del Ray, Florida, hello.
CALLER: Hi, I was just wondering how often William and Harry get to visit with Diana's brother and how often do they get to the grave site.
KING: Good question. Harold, do you want to take it?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think that it's perfectly obvious that the late Princess of Wales' brother is now playing an important part in the lives of these children as we had expected. Partially, it's because of the very fiery speech he made at her funeral, which was moving, but extremely disturbing and, in many ways, not respectful to the royal family. That must have had an effect, which was somewhat negative on Charles and Harry, as well -- of course, on other member of the royal family. But he doesn't seem to be playing an important part.
And also, he's had a rather large number of problems of his own -- his own divorce, his problems in South Africa. There is no question that they see relatively little of their uncle. But what they feel about him, no one really knows, except that they always have a kind word to say to the people who surround them at the palace. They like him, but seldom see him.
KING: Kitty, isn't it true that -- aren't uncles and nephews usually pretty close?
KELLEY: Very close. Very, very close.
KING: Yes.
KELLEY: In this case, though, the Earl Spencer is not close to his two nephews. In fact, two months ago, he very directly criticized Prince Charles for never once visiting the Princess of Wales' gravesite. The royal family, I think, is rather embarrassed that the Earl Spencer has gone to such lengths to commercialize that burial place and is charging $17.50, as I understand, to people to visit it. But he was quite direct in criticism of the Prince of Wales.
KING: Auburn, Illinois, hello.
CALLER: Hi, how are you?
KING: Fine.
CALLER: Thanks for taking my call, Larry. I'd like to ask the panel if Harry has any other plans of education, like university after his gap year, and what possibly would he study?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: Good question, which has been thrown into some question this summer. Harry, a year ago, got very good GCSE results. Those are the exams result -- exams kids take in England when they're 16. The exam results he got this year were apparently not so good. Some say he failed, some say he got bad grades. And so now, there is some question as to whether he will actually go to a university or college at the end of his schooling.
He will almost certainly have this gap year we've been talking about. I don't think he will just spend it playing polo. One of the things he's actually mentioned recently is perhaps getting involved in one of the land mine charities that his mother was so noted for.
He might go into the Army -- it's -- for a period, at least. That's quite a tradition with the British royal family. He apparently has done military training at Eaton, enjoyed it. It's also an option for William in the future. And I have to say in Britain, a spell in the Army, as a young officer, is considered a very good preparation for military life -- I'm sorry not just military life, civilian life.
KING: Hooper, Nebraska, hello. CALLER: Hi, I was wondering, would the British people accept Camilla as queen if she marries Prince Charles?
KING: Hugo, would they?
VICKERS: Oh, this question and I have always taken the line that Prince Charles has always said that he doesn't want to get married, it does seem as though he's heading in that direction much more. Somebody tried to persuade me the other day that this was a much more lasting love affair then, as it were, the Charles/Diana story, because in a sense, they've been together, they've been apart, they come together again. They kind of seem to be destined for one another.
The general line in this country is that their people might accept her as his wife, but they don't particularly want her to be queen in the fullest of time. Well, I think there's certain complications in that. I mean, you know, if you go to Buckingham Palace to see the king, as he would then be, what would her role actually be? I mean would she be there and in which case, perhaps she should be queen. I don't know. It's a very, very difficult problem, I think.
KING: Kitty, what do you think?
KELLEY: I think the British people would indeed accept her. I think they very much want Charles to marry her and to do it sooner rather than later so that it doesn't become a problem. Now, it's a matter of where does she sleep in Buckingham Palace, how do we make these arrangements, how do we accommodate this?
The queen has made it quite clear over the past two years that she does indeed accept Camilla. I think it was hard for her. I think the divorce, on both parts, was very hard for her.
But I think that she's come along now. And the new Archbishop of Canterbury, the man who's going to be coming in has made it an official pronouncement that they can get married, which is a huge, giant step forward.
So I think that they will get married and I think that a king has a queen. And I don't think you can call her anything else. And I think that once they get married, the British people will accept it. They're very accepting people. They're very forgiving.
KING: We'll take a break and come back with more and more phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE with our panel. We'll introduce the panel as well.
Tomorrow night, the state of the family in the new millennium with Dr. James Dobson. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Prince Harry is 18.
Let's reintroduce our panel, go back to more phone calls. In New York, it's Robert Lacey, best selling biographer, veteran royal watcher. His latest book is "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth the II."
In Washington is Kitty Kelly, "New York Times" best-selling author of "The Royals" and other biographies. She's currently working on a book about three generations of the Bush family political dynasty.
In London, Hugo Vicar's best selling author, veteran royal watcher. His book on Prince Phillip's mother Alice, Princess Andrew, "Greece" is now out in the United States.
And Harold Brooks-Baker is the publishing director of the famed "Burke's Peerage (ph)."
Back to the phone calls. Gartner, Maine, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Mr. King, it's nice to talk to you.
KING: Thank you.
CALLER: I was wondering of your panel of -- and you, do you think the princes are feeling any pressure right now, any more than any other time, now that they've become of age?
KING: Is there more pressure, Robert Lacey?
LACEY: Oh, definitely. Yes, I mean, there's pressure on everyone when they become adults. And in their case, they have this scrutiny. They have wise and the witty people like us spending an hour talking about what they're going to do with their lives, always a subject of embarrassment to young people what adults think about them. So I think they are feeling the pressure.
But let's not forget that when it comes to Harry, that we're talking about particularly today, he's not going back into the background. I mean, he's now going back to school for a year. Part of all the fuss that's going on at the moment is this long-term deal with the British press that every so often you can have pictures of Prince Harry and a goal, kicking a football or whatever. And then let the lad go back to his school.
So the pressure on Harry now is to do better in his school exams than he's done so far, and try and get to university or get good grades so he can go into the army with good qualifications.
KING: Kitty, is there also pressure, do you think, on William, especially maybe now, to get married?
KELLEY: Well, I think it will be for quite some time because he's -- because he's so great-looking and the speculation will be such. But both boys now, the gloves are off. They're of age. They're legal. And while Harry will be going back to school, he is 18, and he has put himself into the public domain. So there will be a lot more scrutiny on Harry, as well as on William. And I think, you know, nobody likes it.
KING: McKellan, Texas, hello.
CALLER: I would like to know if Prince William has a girlfriend?
KING: Does he, Hugo Vickers, to your knowledge?
VICKERS: The great thing is that I'm unable to answer that question. We've heard of a number of girls that have passed through his life. But I like to think that he is able to have a certain amount of privacy. And if he has a girlfriend, I certainly don't know her name and can't tell you, but he's very attractive to girls, that we do know. And...
KING: Does anyone...
VICKERS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And I hope that's not just me being inadequate.
KING: Does anyone know on the panel if he has a girlfriend?
LACEY: No, Hugo's absolutely right. It's one area that they keep very secret. There are two schools of thought. One school of thought is that Prince William gets a lot of leg-over, which is a vulgar English expression for rumpy pumpy and the good things of life.
KELLEY: Oh, Robert!
KING: Rumpy pumpy?
LACEY: Rumpy pumpy. And then there's another school of thought which says -- and I actually tend to this one, that he is so wary about the possibility of kiss and tell that actually dating and romance and that sort of thing are really rather difficult for him.
KING: Kitty, have you ever heard that term before?
KELLEY: Rumpy bumpy?
KING: Yes.
KELLEY: No, no, that one is -- I know about wacky backy, but I have never heard of rumpy dumpy.
You know, Larry, William is so guarded and such a controlled young man he -- I don't want to use the word paranoid, but he is very, very careful about his relationships. If he has to go to a party, he'll only come and stay 30 minutes. He's very careful about who he chooses as friends. And both young boys really -- they can't trust people around them. And they really do feel that business of kiss and tell because they've seen it with their mother's private secretary, her bodyguard, her friends.
And there is now coming up in London a very scandalous trial involving Princess Diana's former butler. And I have a feeling this butler has been accused of taking a lot of things from the Princess of Wales. And what his lawyers would like to do, of course, would be to depose the young princes. And this is something that the royal family does not want at all.
KING: Lakewood, New Jersey, hello?
CALLER: Hi. I'd like to ask Kitty, does she think that Harry looks totally different from the rest of his family? And if so, who does she think he resembles?
KELLEY: He...
KING: Is she implying something in that question?
KELLEY: I think she is. I think she's very nicely trying to ask about the red hair on Prince Harry. And this has been a rumor that's circulated for some time. And people have speculated that he might be the son of James Hewitt, who was his mother's lover. And we really -- we have people telling us that of course this isn't true. And I suppose we will never know definitely until and if there's DNA. But until that time, we have the bodyguard Ken Wharf in his book saying that it absolutely isn't true.
Now the red hair could be from the Spencer side of the family. And it's about the best way I can answer that question for you.
KING: We're going to take a break and be back with more. We'll get the thoughts on that from our other panelists as well, right after these words.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Before we take our next call, Robert, do you think that Harry might not be Charles' son?
LACEY: No, I think the evidence is much firmer than Kitty suggests. Harry's 18th birthday, we're celebrating it just at the moment, marking it now, September 1984. Now by every account, Hewitt, the wicked Hewitt and Diana didn't meet until '86...
KELLEY: Wrong, wrong, Robert. They did meet in 1981.
LACEY: Well, they met at a polo match and shook hands. I don't think that's what produced this offspring. The...
KELLEY: No, no. And I'm not saying that it is offspring. I am just answering the woman's question that there is -- this has been discussed by a lot of biographers. It's been in the public press. And it must be quite maddening to Prince Harry.
LACEY: Oh, I quite agree. And I quite agree it's been discussed. But I think one should say very firmly that by every account, the affair did not begin until the autumn of 1986, when the boy was two-years old. And as you also said, the red hair and his characteristics are Spencer characteristics. I mean, if one's looking for trouble, I have heard it said by people who were there soon after Harry was born that Prince Charles was rather cross about the boy looking like a Spencer. Rather ungraciously he complained about this new son of his.
KING: Oh.
LACEY: But I don't think the Hewitt thing is a starter at all.
KING: OK, let me get another call. Bellville, Ontario, hello.
CALLER: Hi, I'd like to ask the panel, what role do they think that Fergie's daughters will play in the royal family, especially since they don't have a role like Harry does?
KING: Hugo?
VICKERS: That's a very interesting question. They are, of course, princesses of the royal house. And when they were born, presumably, it was expected they would play a role. I personally think that they should be given the option at a certain age. And they're still too young. They're still both at school, either they would take a part in royal life or they would opt out.
And Prince Edward's children, if any, are born of that marriage, will not be royal highnesses. They will not be princes and princesses in the same way that Princess Anne's children will be. So in a way, they are in a kind of rather interesting and unusual position.
But if you think about we're always told that we have too big a royal family. And but in fact, of course, as the years go on, it will diminish enormously. And you'll have Prince Charles and his two boys, Prince Andrew and his two girls, and Prince Edward and Princess Anne. That'll be the main royal family.
So they may have a role to play, but I think they should be given the chance to opt out if they wish to.
KING: Fort Pierce, Florida, hello?
CALLER: Hi, hello, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: I was wondering what kind of relationship does Prince William and Prince Harry share with their grandmother, Queen Elizabeth? And then what role does she play in their life?
KING: Hugo, let's Harold take this one so we go around in order. Harold, what role does she have with the queen?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think it's perfectly clear that the queen is very fond of her grandchildren. You can see by the photographs that come in the press. You've seen the queen on television at various events. I have seen her, the queen, with these children several times. And they are a very, very close family indeed.
And the queen is an immensely warm person with her grandchildren, far warmer than she was with her own children with the exception of Prince Andrew, with whom she had a very special and still has a very special relationship.
So I think that there well looked after. And furthermore, Prince Phillip has mellowed a lot in his old age, and is very kind to everyone. So it's a much happier family than it was a few years ago. And it is no longer a dysfunctional family. It is a very closely knit organization.
KING: Oceana, West Virginia, hello?
CALLER: Yes, my question to the panel is this. With the tragic death of Princess Diana, did it seem that one of the boys took it particularly harder than the other one?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: At the very moment when the news came through, in those first few days after Diana died, yes, obviously the -- Harry apparently took it more easily, perhaps because he was younger. We don't know much about this, but we do know that when it came to a question of who would walk behind the coffin, that while Harry was quite happy to do that, William felt much more ambivalent about it.
It is said that in the last few weeks of their mother's life, they were rather embarrassed, both boys with her, about her romance with Dodi Al Fayed, getting splashed all over the newspapers, and that William certainly even may have had rows with her about that.
KING: We will take a break and be back with our remaining moments of this edition of LARRY KING LIVE with Lacey and Kelley and Vickers and Brooks-Baker, as we discuss Harry's 18th and other things royal. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Take another call. Chicago, hello.
CALLER: Hi, there. I would like to ask the panel if now that he's 18 years old, does Prince William give Harry a lot of advice? Will he look out for him and maybe tell him how to handle his life now?
KING: Kitty?
KELLEY: Yes. The answer to that is yes. William does an awful lot of advising to Harry. In fact, it was Charles who went to his oldest son and said, "why don't you suggest to Harry that maybe he visit a drug rehab clinic" when he got in so much trouble for the drugs he was doing several months ago? William is very, very protective of his younger brother.
And I think that that was fostered by his mother, by the Princess of Wales. She always pointed out to them at an early age that William was the one who was going to become king, and that they needed this close bond, and they should look out for each other.
KING: Pittsburgh, hello. CALLER: Hi, Larry. Have the boys received any professional counseling or therapy outside the palace in order to deal with their mother's death?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: I don't believe so, no. Very interesting question. Therapy is still something rather mistrusted by the House of Windsor, of course. And the boys' mother's use of therapists, I mean, albeit new-age therapists, was rather looked down on by the family. I don't have a definitive answer, but I think most people would say looking at them that they seem pretty well-adjusted, and that whatever's worked within the family has worked well for all of them.
KING: Hugo, is there any -- is there any talk about the possibility of the queen abdicating?
VICKERS: No. I'm very glad to say there is no talk about this at all. However, there's talk about it occasionally, but it's always denied. And the queen in fact stated positively at -- when she went to the Houses of Parliament to receive the royal address for the golden jubilee that she had no intention of abdicating. I am very pleased to hear this because I personally believe that a constitutional monarch gains in stature and value the older she gets.
And I think that we need her. And I think that her breadth of knowledge and her wisdom and all the people that she's met over the years, you know, every president of the United States, right back to President Truman, all this thing is a hugely valuable thing when you're in that advisory role, when you're a wise listener and adviser to the elected prime minister. So no, absolutely no abdication.
KING: Harold, who holds the purse strings with regard to the -- I'm sorry, go ahead, Harold.
BROOKS-BAKER: I think this is an incredibly important question because people speak about Prince Charles as if he's going to be king tomorrow. It's very unlikely that he will be king for at least 20 or 30 years.
And the queen really is not able to abdicate because she was anointed with holy oil during the coronation ceremony by the Archbishop of Canterbury. And she will have to remain because she's pledged her word to God, her family, her people to be there forever. And she's made that very clear.
So whether there is a king in the future, which we hope there will be in Prince Charles, and whether Camilla Parker Bowles becomes his queen is something that you and I, I'm afraid, Larry, will not be talking about. Our children and grandchildren will be talking about this. So it's a long way away.
KING: Robert, who -- where does -- do William and Harry get allowances? Where do they get money?
LACEY: They were left quite a lot of money by their mother, because she -- virtually all the divorce settlements, 16 million pounds or so, what's that, $22 million, $23 million, were split between them on trust. I understand, for example, that when they play polo, that comes out of their trust fund. Interestingly, they also paid inheritance tax on that money.
But they have no state subsidy. And the taxpayer won't be considering supporting them until some future date when the government says all right, let's give them jobs. I have to say that in the long term, there's a certain thought in the royal family, a strategy developing, whereby the royal family becomes self-sufficient and doesn't need taxpayers' money any more.
KING: Kitty, is Charles paid a stipend?
KELLEY: Well, as the Prince of Wales, he's one of the most wealthy people within the kingdom. The royal family is supposed to cost about -- from -- as best estimates we can get, $50 million a year that the taxpayers pay to the queen for the royal family.
Now Charles has got own income. And it's quite substantial. Quite substantial. He is now going to enter into a very interesting venture to support the farmers in England, who have suffered so much from hoof and foot and mouth disease recently. He's going to be initiating a line of country clothes, and perhaps garden furniture. And the proceeds are going to go to the farmers. So he certainly is using his position well to help others.
KING: Kitty, may a take a quick moment and ask how the Bush book is coming?
KELLEY: It's fascinating. It's fascinating. It's coming well, Larry. If there's anybody who wants to contribute, please have them contact me.
I'm going back to Prescott Bush. I'm talking about the former President Bush and now President Bush. Who would have ever thought that after 9/11, that we would have ever had 9/11, that it would have so fashioned this book in such an interesting way?
KING: Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you, all. Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Hugo Vickers, and Harold Brooks-Baker, as Prince Harry turns 18.
We'll tell you about tomorrow night, as we come back on LARRY KING LIVE right after this. Tally-ho.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The future of the family in the age of the millennium. Dr. James Dobson is doing a program about families for years on the radio. He's one of the most widely heard people on the radio. He'll be our guest tomorrow night.
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Aired September 17, 2002 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Britain's royal wild child turns 18. Princess Diana's youngest son, Prince Harry, pledges to continue his mom's good works, but has he really outgrown his rebellious party boy image? What would it take for Harry and his older brother, William, to be fit for the throne? And will their father, Prince Charles, ever marry Camilla Parker-Bowles?
Joining us tonight from New York, best-selling biographer, veteran royal watcher, Robert Lacey. His latest book is "Monarch."
In Washington, another best-seller, Kitty Kelley, author of "The Royals."
In London, another best-selling author and royal watcher, Hugo Vickers and Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of "Burke's Peerage."
The coming of age of the playboy prince next on LARRY KING LIVE.
And by the way, during this opening segment, we'll be showing some extraordinary photographs -- these are photographs taken by Mario Testino (ph), of young Harry and they were done recently. And we're going to show them to you as we discuss him.
And Robert Lacey, why is Harry turning 18 a story?
ROBERT LACEY, ROYAL BIOGRAPHER: Well, it's a coming of age, obviously. There's the magic of one of Diana's boys, the boy we saw walking so bravely through the streets at his mother's funeral. And of course, as you've already made clear, there is this intriguing aspect of the wicked Harry. Is he going to be the new black sheep of the royal family?
The success of the British monarchy depends so much on the characters of the people concerned. And it's been through some bad times in the 1990s and a lot of the hopes for the monarchy in the future rest upon Harry's character.
KING: Do you buy the concept, Kitty, that he has changed, that he -- the wild ways are done. He's going to get involved with charities and the like. He's different.
KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": I think we're seeing a new side to him. No, I don't think Harry's changed, but I do think the embracing of the charities is a wonderful tribute to mother. As a matter of fact, we've had a lot of news stories lately about people in the news whose children have been busted for drugs and drinking. And Harry could give a good lesson to Al Gore's son, to President Bush's daughters. I mean it's a very wise and helpful thing to do.
KING: Do you, Hugo, think that it's a significant change or do you think that still part of that tread on Harry's soil?
HUGO VICKERS, ROYAL BIOGRAPHER: Well, I think that it's always very good for a teenager at the age of 18 to be looking outwards instead of inwards and what he's going to be -- have an opportunity to do is to learn an awful lot and to contribute things. And he'll probably discover that the world out there is a much more interesting place then a place to kind of fool around in, which inevitably he's done a certain amount of in the last few months.
KING: Harold Brooks-Baker, is the -- is -- are we being fair in calling him the wild child? Was he? Is it all true about pot smoking and drinking and the like?
HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, "BURKE'S PEERAGE": Well, I think that he experimented the way many young people do today. And young people have always experimented with something or other over hundreds of years.
I think the great problem is that there is no real place for the second in line, to have the heir and then as the newspaper said, the spare. It sounded very good at the time, but the spare usually ends up in despair, as poor Princess Margaret did, as my friend Charles of Luxembourg, who is the brother of the Grand Duke -- did. The guy who is waiting in line usually has nothing to do except wait.
In America, they used to say that the vice president has nothing on his mind except the health of the president. And in a way, that is all that poor Harry has, except now, he's latched on to the idea of furthering his late mother's charity work and that might save him. It'll certainly help a great many people, as, indeed, she did.
KING: It is, is it not, Robert Lacey, very difficult to be second in line? I mean barring unexpected things, he's never going to be king.
LACEY: As -- Harold's just put his finger right on it. I mean William's got an easy job. He is the heir and you know there are problems that go with that. Recently, in the British press, there's been much speculation as to whether poor William is going bald already, and has got a bald spot and that's not a nice thing for a young kid to have to deal with. But Harry has the more difficult job, to define what a spare is.
And interesting -- when Harold mentioned there Princess Margaret, she saw it as a tragedy, the fact she wasn't queen. Of course, being in a position like this is a tremendous springboard for yourself and for all the good you can do. And I think by looking at his mother's example and looking out, as Hugo says, he's already showing very promising signs of developing something new.
KING: Are the brothers close, Kitty?
KELLEY: They're very close, Larry. They bonded very closely during their parents' divorce and they became very close during their mother's awful death. They are close, and I think that William goes out of his way to be quite protective of Harry.
You know I think the real news story would be Harry turns 18 and declares himself interested in a profession so that the baby son of the most dysfunctional family in the world might be interested in getting a job.
KING: How about that?
KELLEY: Then we'd have a news story.
KING: Hugo, what are the possibilities that Harry might go to work?
VICKERS: Well, I think he is going to work. And actually, I rather disagree with all that and I think that the sort of work that he is doing is exactly right because you wouldn't necessarily invent a hereditary monarchy, but since we have one, you have a boy who's 18, who's grown up, people want to see him, he wants to see him. He can go out and he can achieve a lot.
And as I said before, he can learn a lot, much better actually than going into the competitive market. We've seen a certain amount of trouble particularly with Prince Edward and his various problems when he tries to take a so-called normal job. No, I think this is a much better solution.
KING: Harold, does he -- does this involvement with the charities, is this like a full-time thing? Is he going to be involved where he one day becomes director of this? This is going to take him around the clock?
VICKERS: Well, I think that it's too early to tell. However, many ordinary jobs will be denied him, for the simple reason that people are frightened, and the palace is even more frightened of seeing him face the same problems that Prince Edward did. In other words, people trying to get at him and use him because he is a member of the royal family.
So there's no reason why he shouldn't have many interests. He could obviously go into one of the services, which is usual and he could carry on the charity work. There are many things he can do, but what he must do is to develop a life of his own and not just a life waiting to see if his brother carries on.
KING: Where does he...
VICKERS: Remember when...
KING: I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm sorry, go ahead.
VICKERS: ... when the Duke of Windsor stepped down -- when the Duke of Windsor stepped down as Edward VIII, his brother was not prepared for that post. And George VI took quite a time to adjust, probably never really adjusted. His strong, able, attractive wife, the late Queen Mother, made it possible, and helped him become one of the most popular monarchs in history, but it was never really quite right.
I think that you need to have a two-tier system here. One, a man, as he grows into manhood, who has a life of his own, but is prepared to take over, if anything should happen to the heir or the king and this is a job that no one envies. To be poor Prince Harry is the last job in the world any intelligent person would wish to have.
KING: Prince Harry turns 18. We'll continue. We're going to go to your phone calls very quickly and we'll get in a lot of calls tonight for Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Hugo Vickers, and Harold Brooks-Baker.
This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE HARRY: Who's going? Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harry, you've got to move because you're going to be hurt.
PRINCE HARRY: Kick it in there. How could I reach that? That's more easier. It's better. It makes me look good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We'll be dispersing calls momentarily.
Robert Lacey, is it true that Harry was quite angry over the coverage of the fifth anniversary of Di's death, anger over a new book by her former bodyguard, anger over the way she has been kind of treated by the press? Is it true?
LACEY: That seems to be in the impetuous for this identity he's forging on his 18th birthday. Apparently, at the beginning of the summer, his father said, Look, it's coming up. You're going to have to pose. You're going to have to come out in the open more -- something that neither boy really likes doing.
And they spent the summer together, William and Harry. Their father organized a shooting lodge for them up in Scotland, where they could spend time on their own with girlfriends, drink, whatever. I mean it was decided that for security reasons, they couldn't go to Europe, to beach holidays, and apparently, Harry and William spent a lot of time talking to each other.
And then, this book came out just on the anniversary of their mother's death, the fifth anniversary of their mother's death. And they both felt -- they were both outraged that somebody whose job was to keep things secret should be blowing the gaffe. And so, yes, it certainly prompted Harry, apparently, only three or four week ago to say, "I want to remind people of what a gutsy woman" -- that was his word -- "my mother was."
KING: Let's include some phone calls as we move a long.
Greensboro, North Carolina, hello.
CALLER: Hello, my question is, has Prince Harry shown interest in a particular charitable group in which Princess Di had been involved?
KING: Kitty?
KELLEY: He has indeed, Great Ormond Street Hospital For Sick Children. He wants to get involved in a charity that deals with AIDS. The money from the pictures that you've been seeing and will see on this program will be donated to a charity called MERLIN, which deals with third world causes.
And he went to visit each one of these and he has expressed interest in becoming involved in his mother's charities. Of course, he's going back to school, and he can't do it full time, but what he wants to do in his gap year, he said, is play professional polio and do it for charity matches.
KING: Now, explain that. He doesn't go -- he gets off school a year? Where is he, like, a high school graduate?
KELLEY: Well, he's at Eaton now, and he has one more year and then, he gets what they call a gap year, which is a year William chose to go to Australia and to work and do charity work as well. Harry's made it quite clear that he, too, wants to go to Australia, but doesn't want to do what William did. He would like to play polo and he'd like to do it for charity.
Now, his father is not pleased with that because, as we all know, polo is a rich playboy sport, rather elitist and terribly social. It's also very dangerous, but then Prince Charles was quite a polo player in his day.
KING: Victoria, British Columbia, hello.
CALLER: Hello, can anyone speculate as to how the princes' lives would have turned out had their mother not died when she did?
KING: Hugo, do you want to take that one?
VICKERS: Yes, it's a difficult question, really. I think that the bond that they've forged with their father, which was always very strong, but we were never really allowed to see it. It has developed, obviously, in a way. It might not have done quite the same way had Princess Diana stayed alive.
But of course, they would have always been drawn to him and the sort of things that he could offer them at the age they were. I think they have got on terribly well with him. I think he's been a very good father and friend to them over these difficult five years.
And I think that the fact that now he wants to do something -- Prince Harry wants to do something as it were sort of in the memory of his mother is actually the best possible way that her work could be carried forward. It seems to me to be a very nicely moderated way of doing things and without any of the attendant hysteria that has attached to her name particularly in the last few months of her life and since she died.
KING: Harold, the History Channel recently did a poll of 1,000 Brits and they rank Diana's death in 1997 as the most significant thing to happen in their nation in the past 100 years. World War II was number two. Women getting the right to vote was number three. Does that shock you?
BROOKS-BAKER: No, I think it's exactly what I would expect. The love and devotion that the people of this country had for the Queen Mother and for the late Princess of Wales is extraordinary.
And I don't think that it was really understood by all those in authority, either those at Buckingham Palace or those in politics. The -- this love and devotion is such an extraordinary thing that it probably doesn't exist in any country today, nor has it ever really existed.
And you will be certain that the late Princess of Wales will be remembered for 1,000 years from now, and probably she'll be more adored 1,000 years from now then she is right now, and that is really saying something.
Elizabeth of Austria also has grown in importance over the years, but we're going through a period after the mourning period when people are rather quiet. But don't kid yourself, there are very few people who come along in history of this stature that create the amount of devotion that these people have.
KING: Elliott Lake, Ontario, hello.
CALLER: Hello and thank you very much for taking my call.
KING: Sure.
CALLER: We were wondering if perhaps because this young man has been referred to as the spare in all of these years if -- are there any plans afoot, or is he presently being groomed for any part of the government, or to take over from his brother should anything happen?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: Well, I'm going to join in here with what Hugo was saying earlier. We're going to gang up against Kitty.
What Harry has got to do here is a job. I mean it's not a job where you go to work and you pick up your pay packet at the end of the week, but there are -- but these public occasions, for example, that he attends, here we are, we're watching him at our memorial for September 11 this week.
Now, one of the jobs that the British royal family does is represent Britain to the British people and to the world. And we find, and we find many people around the world, are the more moved when a member of the royal family like Prince Charles and his sons turn up and represent. Your Americans are more touched by watching this, and quite rightly so, then just by some hack politicians turning up to do it although politicians also have a job to do.
So the other area of course is charity work. In Britain, the whole field of philanthropy gets an enormous boost from members of the royal family. They choose their charities very carefully. They study them. They find out what's important about them when they go to one of these meetings. They don't just turn up. They've studied. They've found out who they'll be meeting, why they are important. It's an immensely difficult and consuming task. Of course, the queen's done it superbly.
And yes, to answer, finally, your question, yes, that is the job for which Harry is being groomed and it's a job in its own right, whether or not he ever becomes king and has to take over from William.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more and more of your phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
LACEY: ... circumstances and so, all is considered to be well. But certainly, there's no animosity of any kind.
KING: By the way, Kitty, are they going to get married?
KELLEY: I would say absolutely, Larry, and I'd say that we will probably see a wedding in the year 2004. I think that they wanted to wait until after the queen's jubilee. I think that Charles has been very adroit in moving the Church of England to allow divorced people to now remarry. And I think we definitely will see a marriage.
KING: Del Ray, Florida, hello.
CALLER: Hi, I was just wondering how often William and Harry get to visit with Diana's brother and how often do they get to the grave site.
KING: Good question. Harold, do you want to take it?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think that it's perfectly obvious that the late Princess of Wales' brother is now playing an important part in the lives of these children as we had expected. Partially, it's because of the very fiery speech he made at her funeral, which was moving, but extremely disturbing and, in many ways, not respectful to the royal family. That must have had an effect, which was somewhat negative on Charles and Harry, as well -- of course, on other member of the royal family. But he doesn't seem to be playing an important part.
And also, he's had a rather large number of problems of his own -- his own divorce, his problems in South Africa. There is no question that they see relatively little of their uncle. But what they feel about him, no one really knows, except that they always have a kind word to say to the people who surround them at the palace. They like him, but seldom see him.
KING: Kitty, isn't it true that -- aren't uncles and nephews usually pretty close?
KELLEY: Very close. Very, very close.
KING: Yes.
KELLEY: In this case, though, the Earl Spencer is not close to his two nephews. In fact, two months ago, he very directly criticized Prince Charles for never once visiting the Princess of Wales' gravesite. The royal family, I think, is rather embarrassed that the Earl Spencer has gone to such lengths to commercialize that burial place and is charging $17.50, as I understand, to people to visit it. But he was quite direct in criticism of the Prince of Wales.
KING: Auburn, Illinois, hello.
CALLER: Hi, how are you?
KING: Fine.
CALLER: Thanks for taking my call, Larry. I'd like to ask the panel if Harry has any other plans of education, like university after his gap year, and what possibly would he study?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: Good question, which has been thrown into some question this summer. Harry, a year ago, got very good GCSE results. Those are the exams result -- exams kids take in England when they're 16. The exam results he got this year were apparently not so good. Some say he failed, some say he got bad grades. And so now, there is some question as to whether he will actually go to a university or college at the end of his schooling.
He will almost certainly have this gap year we've been talking about. I don't think he will just spend it playing polo. One of the things he's actually mentioned recently is perhaps getting involved in one of the land mine charities that his mother was so noted for.
He might go into the Army -- it's -- for a period, at least. That's quite a tradition with the British royal family. He apparently has done military training at Eaton, enjoyed it. It's also an option for William in the future. And I have to say in Britain, a spell in the Army, as a young officer, is considered a very good preparation for military life -- I'm sorry not just military life, civilian life.
KING: Hooper, Nebraska, hello. CALLER: Hi, I was wondering, would the British people accept Camilla as queen if she marries Prince Charles?
KING: Hugo, would they?
VICKERS: Oh, this question and I have always taken the line that Prince Charles has always said that he doesn't want to get married, it does seem as though he's heading in that direction much more. Somebody tried to persuade me the other day that this was a much more lasting love affair then, as it were, the Charles/Diana story, because in a sense, they've been together, they've been apart, they come together again. They kind of seem to be destined for one another.
The general line in this country is that their people might accept her as his wife, but they don't particularly want her to be queen in the fullest of time. Well, I think there's certain complications in that. I mean, you know, if you go to Buckingham Palace to see the king, as he would then be, what would her role actually be? I mean would she be there and in which case, perhaps she should be queen. I don't know. It's a very, very difficult problem, I think.
KING: Kitty, what do you think?
KELLEY: I think the British people would indeed accept her. I think they very much want Charles to marry her and to do it sooner rather than later so that it doesn't become a problem. Now, it's a matter of where does she sleep in Buckingham Palace, how do we make these arrangements, how do we accommodate this?
The queen has made it quite clear over the past two years that she does indeed accept Camilla. I think it was hard for her. I think the divorce, on both parts, was very hard for her.
But I think that she's come along now. And the new Archbishop of Canterbury, the man who's going to be coming in has made it an official pronouncement that they can get married, which is a huge, giant step forward.
So I think that they will get married and I think that a king has a queen. And I don't think you can call her anything else. And I think that once they get married, the British people will accept it. They're very accepting people. They're very forgiving.
KING: We'll take a break and come back with more and more phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE with our panel. We'll introduce the panel as well.
Tomorrow night, the state of the family in the new millennium with Dr. James Dobson. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Prince Harry is 18.
Let's reintroduce our panel, go back to more phone calls. In New York, it's Robert Lacey, best selling biographer, veteran royal watcher. His latest book is "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth the II."
In Washington is Kitty Kelly, "New York Times" best-selling author of "The Royals" and other biographies. She's currently working on a book about three generations of the Bush family political dynasty.
In London, Hugo Vicar's best selling author, veteran royal watcher. His book on Prince Phillip's mother Alice, Princess Andrew, "Greece" is now out in the United States.
And Harold Brooks-Baker is the publishing director of the famed "Burke's Peerage (ph)."
Back to the phone calls. Gartner, Maine, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Mr. King, it's nice to talk to you.
KING: Thank you.
CALLER: I was wondering of your panel of -- and you, do you think the princes are feeling any pressure right now, any more than any other time, now that they've become of age?
KING: Is there more pressure, Robert Lacey?
LACEY: Oh, definitely. Yes, I mean, there's pressure on everyone when they become adults. And in their case, they have this scrutiny. They have wise and the witty people like us spending an hour talking about what they're going to do with their lives, always a subject of embarrassment to young people what adults think about them. So I think they are feeling the pressure.
But let's not forget that when it comes to Harry, that we're talking about particularly today, he's not going back into the background. I mean, he's now going back to school for a year. Part of all the fuss that's going on at the moment is this long-term deal with the British press that every so often you can have pictures of Prince Harry and a goal, kicking a football or whatever. And then let the lad go back to his school.
So the pressure on Harry now is to do better in his school exams than he's done so far, and try and get to university or get good grades so he can go into the army with good qualifications.
KING: Kitty, is there also pressure, do you think, on William, especially maybe now, to get married?
KELLEY: Well, I think it will be for quite some time because he's -- because he's so great-looking and the speculation will be such. But both boys now, the gloves are off. They're of age. They're legal. And while Harry will be going back to school, he is 18, and he has put himself into the public domain. So there will be a lot more scrutiny on Harry, as well as on William. And I think, you know, nobody likes it.
KING: McKellan, Texas, hello.
CALLER: I would like to know if Prince William has a girlfriend?
KING: Does he, Hugo Vickers, to your knowledge?
VICKERS: The great thing is that I'm unable to answer that question. We've heard of a number of girls that have passed through his life. But I like to think that he is able to have a certain amount of privacy. And if he has a girlfriend, I certainly don't know her name and can't tell you, but he's very attractive to girls, that we do know. And...
KING: Does anyone...
VICKERS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And I hope that's not just me being inadequate.
KING: Does anyone know on the panel if he has a girlfriend?
LACEY: No, Hugo's absolutely right. It's one area that they keep very secret. There are two schools of thought. One school of thought is that Prince William gets a lot of leg-over, which is a vulgar English expression for rumpy pumpy and the good things of life.
KELLEY: Oh, Robert!
KING: Rumpy pumpy?
LACEY: Rumpy pumpy. And then there's another school of thought which says -- and I actually tend to this one, that he is so wary about the possibility of kiss and tell that actually dating and romance and that sort of thing are really rather difficult for him.
KING: Kitty, have you ever heard that term before?
KELLEY: Rumpy bumpy?
KING: Yes.
KELLEY: No, no, that one is -- I know about wacky backy, but I have never heard of rumpy dumpy.
You know, Larry, William is so guarded and such a controlled young man he -- I don't want to use the word paranoid, but he is very, very careful about his relationships. If he has to go to a party, he'll only come and stay 30 minutes. He's very careful about who he chooses as friends. And both young boys really -- they can't trust people around them. And they really do feel that business of kiss and tell because they've seen it with their mother's private secretary, her bodyguard, her friends.
And there is now coming up in London a very scandalous trial involving Princess Diana's former butler. And I have a feeling this butler has been accused of taking a lot of things from the Princess of Wales. And what his lawyers would like to do, of course, would be to depose the young princes. And this is something that the royal family does not want at all.
KING: Lakewood, New Jersey, hello?
CALLER: Hi. I'd like to ask Kitty, does she think that Harry looks totally different from the rest of his family? And if so, who does she think he resembles?
KELLEY: He...
KING: Is she implying something in that question?
KELLEY: I think she is. I think she's very nicely trying to ask about the red hair on Prince Harry. And this has been a rumor that's circulated for some time. And people have speculated that he might be the son of James Hewitt, who was his mother's lover. And we really -- we have people telling us that of course this isn't true. And I suppose we will never know definitely until and if there's DNA. But until that time, we have the bodyguard Ken Wharf in his book saying that it absolutely isn't true.
Now the red hair could be from the Spencer side of the family. And it's about the best way I can answer that question for you.
KING: We're going to take a break and be back with more. We'll get the thoughts on that from our other panelists as well, right after these words.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Before we take our next call, Robert, do you think that Harry might not be Charles' son?
LACEY: No, I think the evidence is much firmer than Kitty suggests. Harry's 18th birthday, we're celebrating it just at the moment, marking it now, September 1984. Now by every account, Hewitt, the wicked Hewitt and Diana didn't meet until '86...
KELLEY: Wrong, wrong, Robert. They did meet in 1981.
LACEY: Well, they met at a polo match and shook hands. I don't think that's what produced this offspring. The...
KELLEY: No, no. And I'm not saying that it is offspring. I am just answering the woman's question that there is -- this has been discussed by a lot of biographers. It's been in the public press. And it must be quite maddening to Prince Harry.
LACEY: Oh, I quite agree. And I quite agree it's been discussed. But I think one should say very firmly that by every account, the affair did not begin until the autumn of 1986, when the boy was two-years old. And as you also said, the red hair and his characteristics are Spencer characteristics. I mean, if one's looking for trouble, I have heard it said by people who were there soon after Harry was born that Prince Charles was rather cross about the boy looking like a Spencer. Rather ungraciously he complained about this new son of his.
KING: Oh.
LACEY: But I don't think the Hewitt thing is a starter at all.
KING: OK, let me get another call. Bellville, Ontario, hello.
CALLER: Hi, I'd like to ask the panel, what role do they think that Fergie's daughters will play in the royal family, especially since they don't have a role like Harry does?
KING: Hugo?
VICKERS: That's a very interesting question. They are, of course, princesses of the royal house. And when they were born, presumably, it was expected they would play a role. I personally think that they should be given the option at a certain age. And they're still too young. They're still both at school, either they would take a part in royal life or they would opt out.
And Prince Edward's children, if any, are born of that marriage, will not be royal highnesses. They will not be princes and princesses in the same way that Princess Anne's children will be. So in a way, they are in a kind of rather interesting and unusual position.
But if you think about we're always told that we have too big a royal family. And but in fact, of course, as the years go on, it will diminish enormously. And you'll have Prince Charles and his two boys, Prince Andrew and his two girls, and Prince Edward and Princess Anne. That'll be the main royal family.
So they may have a role to play, but I think they should be given the chance to opt out if they wish to.
KING: Fort Pierce, Florida, hello?
CALLER: Hi, hello, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: I was wondering what kind of relationship does Prince William and Prince Harry share with their grandmother, Queen Elizabeth? And then what role does she play in their life?
KING: Hugo, let's Harold take this one so we go around in order. Harold, what role does she have with the queen?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, I think it's perfectly clear that the queen is very fond of her grandchildren. You can see by the photographs that come in the press. You've seen the queen on television at various events. I have seen her, the queen, with these children several times. And they are a very, very close family indeed.
And the queen is an immensely warm person with her grandchildren, far warmer than she was with her own children with the exception of Prince Andrew, with whom she had a very special and still has a very special relationship.
So I think that there well looked after. And furthermore, Prince Phillip has mellowed a lot in his old age, and is very kind to everyone. So it's a much happier family than it was a few years ago. And it is no longer a dysfunctional family. It is a very closely knit organization.
KING: Oceana, West Virginia, hello?
CALLER: Yes, my question to the panel is this. With the tragic death of Princess Diana, did it seem that one of the boys took it particularly harder than the other one?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: At the very moment when the news came through, in those first few days after Diana died, yes, obviously the -- Harry apparently took it more easily, perhaps because he was younger. We don't know much about this, but we do know that when it came to a question of who would walk behind the coffin, that while Harry was quite happy to do that, William felt much more ambivalent about it.
It is said that in the last few weeks of their mother's life, they were rather embarrassed, both boys with her, about her romance with Dodi Al Fayed, getting splashed all over the newspapers, and that William certainly even may have had rows with her about that.
KING: We will take a break and be back with our remaining moments of this edition of LARRY KING LIVE with Lacey and Kelley and Vickers and Brooks-Baker, as we discuss Harry's 18th and other things royal. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Take another call. Chicago, hello.
CALLER: Hi, there. I would like to ask the panel if now that he's 18 years old, does Prince William give Harry a lot of advice? Will he look out for him and maybe tell him how to handle his life now?
KING: Kitty?
KELLEY: Yes. The answer to that is yes. William does an awful lot of advising to Harry. In fact, it was Charles who went to his oldest son and said, "why don't you suggest to Harry that maybe he visit a drug rehab clinic" when he got in so much trouble for the drugs he was doing several months ago? William is very, very protective of his younger brother.
And I think that that was fostered by his mother, by the Princess of Wales. She always pointed out to them at an early age that William was the one who was going to become king, and that they needed this close bond, and they should look out for each other.
KING: Pittsburgh, hello. CALLER: Hi, Larry. Have the boys received any professional counseling or therapy outside the palace in order to deal with their mother's death?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: I don't believe so, no. Very interesting question. Therapy is still something rather mistrusted by the House of Windsor, of course. And the boys' mother's use of therapists, I mean, albeit new-age therapists, was rather looked down on by the family. I don't have a definitive answer, but I think most people would say looking at them that they seem pretty well-adjusted, and that whatever's worked within the family has worked well for all of them.
KING: Hugo, is there any -- is there any talk about the possibility of the queen abdicating?
VICKERS: No. I'm very glad to say there is no talk about this at all. However, there's talk about it occasionally, but it's always denied. And the queen in fact stated positively at -- when she went to the Houses of Parliament to receive the royal address for the golden jubilee that she had no intention of abdicating. I am very pleased to hear this because I personally believe that a constitutional monarch gains in stature and value the older she gets.
And I think that we need her. And I think that her breadth of knowledge and her wisdom and all the people that she's met over the years, you know, every president of the United States, right back to President Truman, all this thing is a hugely valuable thing when you're in that advisory role, when you're a wise listener and adviser to the elected prime minister. So no, absolutely no abdication.
KING: Harold, who holds the purse strings with regard to the -- I'm sorry, go ahead, Harold.
BROOKS-BAKER: I think this is an incredibly important question because people speak about Prince Charles as if he's going to be king tomorrow. It's very unlikely that he will be king for at least 20 or 30 years.
And the queen really is not able to abdicate because she was anointed with holy oil during the coronation ceremony by the Archbishop of Canterbury. And she will have to remain because she's pledged her word to God, her family, her people to be there forever. And she's made that very clear.
So whether there is a king in the future, which we hope there will be in Prince Charles, and whether Camilla Parker Bowles becomes his queen is something that you and I, I'm afraid, Larry, will not be talking about. Our children and grandchildren will be talking about this. So it's a long way away.
KING: Robert, who -- where does -- do William and Harry get allowances? Where do they get money?
LACEY: They were left quite a lot of money by their mother, because she -- virtually all the divorce settlements, 16 million pounds or so, what's that, $22 million, $23 million, were split between them on trust. I understand, for example, that when they play polo, that comes out of their trust fund. Interestingly, they also paid inheritance tax on that money.
But they have no state subsidy. And the taxpayer won't be considering supporting them until some future date when the government says all right, let's give them jobs. I have to say that in the long term, there's a certain thought in the royal family, a strategy developing, whereby the royal family becomes self-sufficient and doesn't need taxpayers' money any more.
KING: Kitty, is Charles paid a stipend?
KELLEY: Well, as the Prince of Wales, he's one of the most wealthy people within the kingdom. The royal family is supposed to cost about -- from -- as best estimates we can get, $50 million a year that the taxpayers pay to the queen for the royal family.
Now Charles has got own income. And it's quite substantial. Quite substantial. He is now going to enter into a very interesting venture to support the farmers in England, who have suffered so much from hoof and foot and mouth disease recently. He's going to be initiating a line of country clothes, and perhaps garden furniture. And the proceeds are going to go to the farmers. So he certainly is using his position well to help others.
KING: Kitty, may a take a quick moment and ask how the Bush book is coming?
KELLEY: It's fascinating. It's fascinating. It's coming well, Larry. If there's anybody who wants to contribute, please have them contact me.
I'm going back to Prescott Bush. I'm talking about the former President Bush and now President Bush. Who would have ever thought that after 9/11, that we would have ever had 9/11, that it would have so fashioned this book in such an interesting way?
KING: Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you, all. Robert Lacey, Kitty Kelley, Hugo Vickers, and Harold Brooks-Baker, as Prince Harry turns 18.
We'll tell you about tomorrow night, as we come back on LARRY KING LIVE right after this. Tally-ho.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The future of the family in the age of the millennium. Dr. James Dobson is doing a program about families for years on the radio. He's one of the most widely heard people on the radio. He'll be our guest tomorrow night.
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