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CNN Larry King Live
Guest Panel Analyze British Royal Family
Aired May 13, 2003 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: Princess Diana's firstborn, that reluctant royal hunk, Prince William, is about to turn 21. Will he also make history by coming to America for more than just a visit? And why is news of a new royal pregnancy causing worry as well as joy? The latest palace intrigues with our expert panel. In London, the veteran royals watcher, Robert Lacey. His latest best seller is "Monarch," just out in paperback. In Washington, biographer Kitty Kelley, author of another best-seller, "The Royals." Back in London, Harold Brooks-Baker, publishing director of "Burke's Peerage," and another best-selling royals watcher, Hugo Vickers. And they're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
The latest issue of "People" magazine talks about "Will's women." Prince William will turn 21 on June 21, and they're going to give him a stamp. What is that all about, Robert?
ROBERT LACEY, AUTHOR, "MONARCH": Well, the stamp is a new thing. There's never been a 21-year-old member of the royal family had a stamp. I myself think it's rather a diversion, a substitute for the fact that when his birthday comes up next month, he's been very, very reluctant indeed to take part in any events. There were -- the BBC wanted to have a great big jamboree, rather like the concert in the palace gardens that was held last year for the queen's jubilee, and Prince William said no. He's clearly a young man with a will of his own and a great wish to preserve his private life for the immediate future, at least.
KING: To be on a stamp in America, Kitty Kelley, one has to be dead 10 years -- 21 years old and alive and a stamp. What do you make of it?
KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": Well, he's a member of the royal family. I think they're trying to make this monarchy, you know, the gift that keeps on giving. And they keep trying to stir up the pop culture and the youth. And they know that they've got a young man who's very, very popular, far more popular than his father is. And when you think about it, it's Princess Diana giving us again something.
KING: And Harold Brooks, is there also a coin, too?
HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, PUB. DIR., "BURKE'S PEERAGE": There is a 5- pound coin coming out. I think Kitty Kelley is absolutely correct in the way she's analyzed the situation. It's a little bit as if the royal family is concerned the monarchy will not continue because a republic might come along one day, and this extremely attractive, handsome, charming, rather intelligent young man is there in the wings, waiting to take his place on the throne. But remember, it could be many years from now because the queen will be there until she dies. She's an anointed monarch. It's possible that she'll live, and we hope she will, another 30 years.
KING: Hugo Vickers, what was Prince Charles's 21st birthday like?
HUGO VICKERS, AUTHOR, "ALICE: PRINCESS ANDREW OF GREECE": Well, Prince Charles, of course, had the additional thing of being invested as Prince of Wales at Carnavon (ph) Castle, which was a great focal thing. And I rather think there was a stamp for that. And he would have been -- probably wouldn't have been (UNINTELLIGIBLE) exactly for his 21st, but he was 'round about 21 at the time. And then he had a party in Buckingham Palace, a dance for his friends, and that was about it. He was still very much involved in university life. And it wasn't a sort of a great, big national celebration, like the jubilee, certainly. And I think...
KING: What about...
VICKERS: ... that the same thing won't happen then.
KING: And what about stories -- we want all of you to get in on this. And by the way, we'll be taking calls early for the questions about the royals and our fascination, the fascination they're held in the United States.
Robert Lacey, what about the whole fuss over a 21-year-old boy, and now the story that he may come to, what, live in America? What do you make of that?
LACEY: Well, I'm sorry, Larry. I checked this out before the program with St. James's palace because I was sure you were going to ask this question. They are absolutely denying any possibility of William coming to America. They say that they would not advise it, that to be in a goldfish bowl of the celebrity culture is not what they would want for him at this stage in his life. And they also say -- and I think they're right in this -- it doesn't really fit with his character at the moment. In his gap year, before he went to university, he went off to the jungles of South America, worked on rather obscure farms in England.
As Kitty's already said, you know, we've got the echo of Diana here, but he also has the echo of Diana's shyness. And he lived with his mother through those traumatic years. He believes that the press killed his mother. So getting close to being exposed, as he would be in America, I don't think is on his agenda for some time yet.
KING: Kitty, he has been to the United States, though.
KELLEY: He has been to the United States, Larry. But you know something? If he lived here, he would not be able to control the American press. Now, granted, our tabloids are not what the British tabloids are, but still, he would not be afforded the same kind of protection. For awhile, he'd be a source of reverence and curiosity and a real celebrity, but he would be subject to an awful lot of scrutiny and coverage that he can control in the U.K.
KING: Does he plan, Harold, on military service?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, to go back to the American possibility -- I have talked with two people who know him very well indeed, and they're convinced that he would like very much to live in America for an extended period of time. It is absolutely true, what Robert says. The palace does not like this idea. But I believe that he is showing the strong will that Edward the VIII, Duke of Windsor, showed with his friends, Mrs. Dudley Ward (ph) and Lady Furness (ph) and later on with Mrs. Simpson. I don't say that he's that much of a rebel, but he is heading a bit in that direction. And I think he'll be his own man.
KING: And your thoughts on the American aspect, Hugo?
VICKERS: Well, now, I agree with Robert. I don't think he's likely to go. Of course, he'd go for occasional visits. Why not? But I think, of course, I see him very much as a unifying factor, if it still is necessary to unify the royal family, insomuch that he is very much combining the best elements of both parents. And so that, you know, if you were kind of a Prince Charles man or a Princess Diana man, you've got both of them in Prince William. I think we're extraordinarily lucky to have him. I think he's -- he's obviously immensely popular. He's good-looking. He stands well. He's academically bright. I think he's got a lot going for him.
KING: What about the military, Robert?
LACEY: Sorry? I didn't hear that last question, Larry.
KING: The military. Does he plan on armed services of any kind?
LACEY: Well, that is an option that I would -- if I were a betting man, would put money on. During his gap year, which again, as I say, we can take as a guide to what his tastes are, he did social service and he also did military service. He chose, rather against his mother's wishes, when he was at Eaton to join the cadet corps there. He passed out as the top cadet. He served with the Welsh Guards in the jungle on training missions.
And when you think of it, for an adventurous, dashing young man, a spell in the military would have a lot to offer, and it would address this question we keep coming back to -- media scrutiny. In a military situation, it would be pretty -- you know, pretty well organized. Though, of course, we'll always perhaps try to send some embedded reporters, like we had during the war. The interest will obviously be there.
KING: We'll ask about his younger brother. We'll ask about Sophie's pregnancy. And we'll go to your phone calls. We're talking royals tonight on LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Kitty Kelley, how does the younger brother, Harry, handle all the attention given his older brother? KELLEY: Well, you know, they're very, very close, but William does tend to boss him quite a bit. On the subject of the military, though, Larry, it's Harry who wants to make the army a career. And he's even dropped one of his courses in order that he's going to pass two courses, get passing grades and get admitted into Sandringhurst (ph), which is a training ground for the best British officers. So his career is established. He knows what he wants to do, although his father would really like him to become a college graduate. He's said no to that.
William, on the other hand, really does have an awful lot of choices to make because, as Harold said, if he becomes -- I mean, when he becomes king, it's a long way away. I mean, we still have a very, very healthy queen on the throne now and a son who's just -- can hardly wait to be king, and he's well into middle age. So William will have to go out and carve a career for himself before he takes on the throne.
KING: Now, how about the controversial Sophie of Edward and Sophie fame, Harold? She is expecting. Will that change the image?
BROOKS-BAKER: I don't think it'll change the image at all, really, because the -- Prince Edward will certainly drift more and more into obscurity. He's a very charming young man. Of that there's no question. And everyone's thrilled that his wife is expecting a child. But after all, there would be no reason to hear a great deal from either of them in the distant future. Yes, in the near future, we'll know what they have for breakfast and what holidays they go on, but that'll be the end of it because there will be the future wife of both the princes coming up in the not too distant future, and you'll have children, and so forth. And it will be like many other members of the royal family. Who in the world can spot the Duke of Gloucester as he walks down the street? And yet he is fairly close.
KING: Hugo Vickers, before we go to phone calls -- and a lot of people want to talk about the royals -- what about the state of Prince Philip's health? There were rumors of prostate cancer.
VICKERS: No, Prince Philip -- they're always trying to make rumors about Prince Philip's health. And if you see Prince Philip, he's incredibly healthy. He's still driving. The only thing he's not going to do this year, I understand, is to actually ride to the trooping the color. And that's fair enough. I mean, he will be 82 this year, and why should he, at that age? But no, he's fine. And the queen is also looking extremely good. I saw the queen on Saturday night, and she's having a real sort of, like, sort of an Indian summer in her reign. I mean, she looks fantastic. I mean, she looks radiant and very, very lively and bright. And I think she's in very good shape, as well. As you know, she had a difficult time earlier in the year with her knee, but she's really looking fantastic.
KING: No possibility, then, of abdication, right, Hugo?
VICKERS: No. As Harold said, an anointed queen, and she takes that very seriously. And there's absolutely no reason why she should abdicate. She can hand over a certain amount of responsibilities to the Prince of Wales, should she so wish to do. And does already hand him over a few things. He does a few investitures for her, and so forth, and he might travel a little bit more in her place. But there's absolutely no reason why she should abdicate, and I've always said she won't. And she, I'm glad to say, every now and again also tells us that she's not going to abdicate. She...
(CROSSTALK)
VICKERS: ... at speeches, for example, to the House of Parliament.
KING: Just to be able to say, That's my son, the king, would be a big thrill.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Anyway, let's go to calls. Ellijay in Georgia. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry. I would like to ask your outstanding panel, do they think Prince Charles will soon marry Camilla Parker-Bowles? And also, how much taxpayer -- British taxpayer money does it cost to fund the monarchy.
KING: Robert?
LACEY: I'll take second question first, the easy one. Last year, the monarchy cost, excluding security costs, which are always kept secret, 37 million pounds. What's that, $50 million, $55 million? That's what it costs the taxpayer. It's about the cost of one attack helicopter and missiles. There is this image, particularly cultivated by opponents of the monarchy in this country, that it's an incredibly expensive and wasteful institution. In fact, it's getting more and more open and actually publishes accounts every year in which you can read what the royal family's costing.
Now, the $64,000 question. I'm sure everybody here on the panel has got their views on it. Will Charles and Camilla marry? My view is that they will, but not for the foreseeable future. It was much talked about last year, with all the good will surrounding the jubilee. And then along came the fuss over the royal butlers and the official report, well, the royal report into what was wrong at St. James's palace.
And my view of Charles and Camilla is that the gauge, when people discuss whether or not they're going to get married, is all to do with how people feel about Prince Charles. If they're happy and they think he's right as the future king, then everybody says, Yes, he should get married. And certainly, at the moment, I think he's got a bit of rebuilding of his image to do.
KING: Kitty, what do you think?
KELLEY: Well, I can't believe that Robert said that the easy question was answering how much the monarchy costs. I think that's the tough question because it's hidden in various places. I think $50 million is a very conservative answer. And on the Charles and Camilla, I, as a betting woman, would have to say absolutely, yes. I know that the queen would prefer that they don't get married for a while. I think that she feels that a marriage to Camilla Parker- Bowles will incite the public and that perhaps they're not ready for it. But Charles is a man who's going to be king, and he's going to marry Camilla Parker-Bowles.
KING: Harold, what do you think?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I think that Kitty is absolutely spot on. It's just a matter of time before the announcement is made. The bad publicity for the royal family recently, only eclipsed by the war in Iraq, has been rather disconcerting, to put it mildly. But when things calm down again and everyone loves Prince Charles, the announcement will probably be made.
I would like to say one thing about the cost of the royal family. The money from the crown lands outweighs the amount of money spent on the royal family by the British taxpayer. And I would say that she is -- the queen is the only head of state in the world who pays the equivalent of 40 million to 50 million pounds a year to have a job that nobody in his right mind would wish to have.
KING: Yes, but where does she get the money from? Hugo, do you make it unanimous about the marriage? I got to take a break.
VICKERS: No, I don't. And I've always taken the view that there's a lot of complications in this matter of this marriage. I rather blame some of Prince Charles's house help, particularly people like Bob Boland (ph), for pushing Camilla so far into the foreground that you really -- the next step is bound to lead of something of a constitutional crisis. I mean, you -- inevitably, you've got the Royal Marriage Act. You've got the question of the church. That is changing a little bit. All sorts of different things like that which would have to be faced. I think it's rather a shame.
KING: Let me get a break, come back and go to a lot more phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Dr. Phil returns to this show tomorrow night. As we go to break, here's a picture of Prince Charles, and the age then was 21. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're talking royals, and we go to Tucson, Arizona. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. The question I have for the panel was, when they issue the stamp for Prince William's 21st birthday, will they be doing it like they did when they honored Princess Diana? Will they be doing it just for Great Britain or the entire commonwealth?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: No, these are just British stamps. You know, I think four values (ph). And actually, the stamp you're all going to get in America when we put it on our air mail letters to you is that formal one I think you're looking at there at the moment. And the rather nice and more casual ones -- here we are again -- is what we're going to use.
There's nothing to stop countries all 'round the world, and many sort of lesser countries appropriate pictures of the royal family and stick them on. What's significant about these stamps is they'll be relatively limited, and I'm sure will have quite a lot of value in the future.
KING: I think the only non-America on a U.S. stamp is Churchill, I believe. To Branson, Missouri. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. I was trying to ask the question -- since Prince William already has his -- hello?
KING: Yes. Go ahead.
CALLER: OK. Since Prince William already has the title of prince, should he get married, will his wife be titled princess, just like Princess Diana was?
KING: Kitty?
KELLEY: Yes, she will be. He -- yes. The answer -- the short answer is yes.
KING: In other words, when a prince marries someone, they're a princess.
KELLEY: That's right, especially in this case.
KING: Sounds logical. Toronto. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. Hi, Larry. My question for the panel is -- I've watched your show -- I guess this was about a year ago -- with James Hewitt. I just want to know, with the letters, did William buy those, or is he still holding out for the highest bidder?
KING: Harold, do you know?
CLINTON: I'm sorry?
KING: I'm asking Harold to answer your question. Do you know?
BROOKS-BAKER: I think that -- yes. I do not know what has happened to that information, but the feeling against Hewitt was so great that I think he ran for cover.
KING: What do you -- do you know anything further, Hugo? He was on this show, and he said he didn't do it for the money.
VICKERS: I remember. I know. Well, what did he do it for, in that case, I'd like to ask? I'm not a great fan of Captain Hewitt, I'm afraid. And I sincerely hope, really, that the whole thing with the letters will disappear. I mean, in a sense, we kind of know what's in the letters now because there's been so many extracts and so many things have appeared at different times. Wouldn't it be nice if he just handed them back? But is he going to do that? No, he isn't. KING: New York City. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry, good show. Wishing the prince a wonderful birthday. My question is that his grandparents are very firm in terms during World War II. They were steadfast on staying in England. Considering the global situation today within the world, we haven't heard much from Prince William, what is their situation concerning the fact that England and America have been standing so closely, rightly so, with each other.
KING: Robert, will he speak out on things like that?
LACEY: No. No, he won't.
KING: Why is that?
LACEY: Since we're entering -- well, because it's the constitutional role of the monarchy to be above politics. It's not much of a secret here in London circles that Prince Charles was fiercely opposed to the war in Iraq. And there was even talk that a visit that he was planning to make a visit to America was canceled when the White House got to hear that he was so against it. He reflected the feelings of many people here. Now, that's not to say that he and the royal family haven't done marvelous work, backing up the troops and visiting the families of the boys and girls who were out in the Gulf. But no, The whole essence of our royal family is that they do not pronounce on controversial matters like this.
KING: In other words, they didn't speak out in World War II against Hitler?
LACEY: Ah. Well, I think a lot of people in this country would view the recent war of choice that we had with Iraq as rather different from the war of absolute national defense against Hitler.
KING: We will now go to Centreville, Ohio. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. Thank you for taking my call, Larry. What I wondered is if Prince William comes -- well, not of age, but at a point where he would be able to be king and he doesn't want to take the position, what happens then?
KING: Does it go to Harry, Kitty?
KELLEY: Well, he would have to abdicate, and that would...
KING: You mean he has to be anointed king?
KELLEY: No, he'd have to -- he has to be anointed king, if he's going to be king. If he's not going to be king, he's going to have to step down, and that...
KING: From what?
KELLEY: From being king.
KING: But he's not -- I mean, does he not accept it, then he's never been king, so what is he abdicating?
KELLEY: Well, no. It is his to be king upon the death or -- of his father, after his father is king.
KING: Then if he chooses not to be, is Harry the king?
KELLEY: Yes. Well, he is right now. But if Prince William, at the time that he says he doesn't want to be king, has a child, then that child would be the king.
KING: A-ha! Go raise a family. We'll take a break and come back with more phone calls. Dr. Phil tomorrow night. And the cast -- the whole crew of "60 Minutes" on Thursday night. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back.
The new issue of "People" magazine, by the way, still on the stands. Has a whole page devoted to William and his women. It's called "Will's Women." There you see "Royal Watch."
And let's reintroduce our panel.
Robert Lacey is in London, best selling author, veteran royal watcher. His book, "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II" is now out in paper back. There is its cover.
Kitty Kelley is best selling biographer, author of "The Royals" and working on a book about the Bush dynasty.
In London is Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of the distinguished "Birch Peerage."
And in London is Hugo Vickers, best-selling biographer, veteran royal watcher and among his books is "Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece," a biography of Prince Phillip's mother.
Back to the calls. Vancouver, British Columbia, hello.
CALLER: Hello.
KING: Yes, go ahead.
CALLER: I was just wondering what is the protocol when Charles becomes king? Would there be a formal investiture for William to become prince of Wales? And would it happen at the same time as the coronation?
KING: Harold, we will go to you on this one.
BROOKS-BAKER: I think it's impossible to know what's going to happen because first of all, he doesn't have to be made prince of Wales. Secondly, we don't know what kind of ceremony will take place next time. I think probably one that is very different than the one that the queen went through. I believe the queen will be the last anointed monarch. Therefore, anyone who takes the throne in the future will be able to step down like their cousins on the continent are able to. But this is speculation.
We don't know what will happen is the answer and it's a long way away, at least 20 to 30 years. But of course, only God knows.
KING: Cattletsburg, Kentucky, hello.
CALLER: Yes, I'm wondering what William's future schooling plans are and what is Harry studying?
KING: Hugo?
VICKERS: I don't know what Harry is studying at the moment. He's still at -- he's still at school. I mean, he entered -- as Robert was saying, there's a chance are that he's going to go into the military.
But I wonder if it would be possible just to revert this question about coronations because it is rather interesting one and I think it's quite a significant one.
I don't agree at all with Howard that Prince Charles won't be anointed. I think that there may be a difference in the ceremony, but when a -- when a -- when a monarch dies, another one automatically takes over. But there is kind of a deal with the nation, if you'd like, which is what the coronation is all about.
The taking of the coronation oath is the promise of the new monarch to serve the people. And only when the coronation oath has been taken can the anointing and crowning then take place afterwards. And in a sense it's like the coronation ceremony. We're just coming up on the 2nd of June to the anniversary, the 50th anniversary of the queen's coronation. It's symbolic of the acceptance by the people of the new monarch and acceptance of the new monarch to serve. And that's the really important thing about it. And the anointing, as Harold does make clear, is absolutely the most crucial part of it.
KING: Grundy, Virginia, hello.
CALLER: Hello?
KING: Yes. Go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, I have a quick comment and a quick question.
My comment is, evidently we cannot -- we can say that William gets his looks from his mother.
My question is, what is his relationship with his family and what bearing will the family have on if and when he decides to get married? What kind of bearing do they have on that decision?
KING: Robert? LACEY: If I heard the questioner right, it's about William, how he gets on with his family.
KING: Yes.
LACEY: Remarkably -- remarkably well.
You know, at the time of Diana's death and, of course, Lord Spencer's famous incendiary speech, there was a suggestion that these boys would somehow be between their two blood families.
And what has definitely happened in the last five years is that although they may look a bit like Spencers, these boys have very much behaved as Windsors and are terribly happy to be Windsors. They get on remarkably well with the often criticized Prince Phillip, who may be a crusty grandfather, but is somebody they turn to.
We've been asking what Harry is going to do when he finishes school and goes to university. Well, a month or so ago he was seen down in Bristol, a west country town, with his grandfather, Prince Phillip, looking round the local university to see if it was the sort of place for him.
The -- particularly under the picture of the press, these boys retreat to the family -- the family retreats, spend a lot of time with them, get on tremendously well, for example, with their cousins, Zara Phillips and her brother.
KING: Fitchburg, Massachusetts, hello.
CALLER: Hello. I have a question.
Sophie Rees-Jones has an uncanny resemblance to Diana. Is there any chance she'll ever change her appearance and maybe, I don't know, have her own identity?
Also, Sarah Ferguson has lost quite a bit of weight as a spokeswoman for Weight Watchers. I thought she had lived with Prince Andrew even after their divorce. Any chance they'll get remarried and how does the family feel of her -- that she's still spokeswoman for Weight Watchers.
KING: All right, let's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Kitty Kelley, want to handle that?
KELLEY: Boy, this caller would make a great managing editor.
Let's see. Which one do we take first?
KING: The woman who looks like Di.
KELLEY: The woman who looks like Di. That has been a very, very hard thing for Sophie Rees -- what do I call her the countess of Wessex? Is that right?
It's been very, very hard for her. I understand that comments have been made where she fails to live up to the physical beauty of the princess of Wales and it is very, very tough for her, which is one reason I think they're very, very happy with this pregnancy.
She's now 38-years-old. She had a pregnancy almost two years ago and was -- did not carry to term. So everyone has got their fingers crossed on this one because the palace is hoping that motherhood will just absolutely...
KING: And what about -- and what about Fergula?
KELLEY: Fergula. She -- what was the question? Oh, will she remarry? That was the abiding wish of her dear beloved father, that Fergie and Andrew would get back together. But I think they seem to get along very, very well unmarried, perhaps better than they did married.
KING: Does the family mind her doing the things for Weight Watchers?
KELLEY: I don't think the family has much to say about that, Larry. I think that...
KING: That's yesterday.
KELLEY: Yes. Today they won't have anything to do with her.
KING: We'll get a break and be back with more, more phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Harold, we forgot the second part of one of the questions asked by one of the viewers which was what influence will the family have over who Prince William marries? Harold?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well I think it's perfectly obvious that as things stand today, a great deal of an influence in every conceivable way. Prince Philip is certainly not going to disappear tomorrow, and he seems to be calling the shots. The queen is of immense importance. And I think that unless for some strange reason is decided that Prince William will never be king, he will have to abide many of their wishes, if not most of them.
Now, of course, we don't know all the pressures that are put on various grandchildren and children of the monarch because we're not living in Buckingham Palace or at Windsor. But, you can be certain that it is a very closely knit family and they will tow the line.
KING: Clarington, Ohio. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. We love your show.
KING: Thank you.
CALLER: And I would like to know if Prince Harry has a steady girlfriend?
KING: Does he, Robert?
LACEY: I wish you'd ask me about William because we know quite a lot about William. I'm not sure I entirely agree with what Harold's just said. I think this young man is going to make his own mind up about who he marries.
KING: Who is -- does he have a girlfriend?
LACEY: Yes, he has a girlfriend, we believe, called Kate Middleton (ph). You've been talking about "People" magazine. They've got very good information about it. What's remarkable is she's sharing his flat where he's living up at St. Andrew's University with a couple of other young people. And they seem to make up a group of young men and women who go out together, spend time together...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: And Harry?
LACEY: No. Well according to "People" magazine, again, Harry plays the field much more. And we certainly see lots of photographs of him and all sorts of attractive young ladies. It's polo season now. We are going to get a lot of photos...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: So polo is a meeting place like the mall in America?
KELLEY: You got it.
LACEY: Absolutely. Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Glenn Cove, New York, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. Has it said what William wants to do for his 21st birthday?
KING: Do we know, Kitty?
KELLEY: Yes, we do. We know the palace would love to have a huge, huge celebration. And William doesn't want that because he feels that the palace would just use it as a good news publicity stunt. What he wants, really, is to have a dance with his own friends, very, very private. And I think he'll probably get his way on this one.
KING: Princeton, Indiana, hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry. Thank you very much. We talked about earlier how much it costs the monarchy keeps going. How many jobs would they lose if they discontinued the monarchy in England, which everybody would like to get rid of? KING: Harold?
BROOKS-BAKER: What would happen indeed if the monarchy was set aside, I believe that it's only necessary to look and see what has happened to the cousins of the royal family on the continent who have lost their thrones in many ways these countries have lost their way.
You've seen what's happened in Italy. One government after the other. They have not been able to really replace the royal family. And it is, I believe, very easy to talk about a republic. It is very difficult to think about what the consequences would be and how difficult it would be to install it.
KING: Mountain View, Missouri. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, I'd like to know would Prince William more likely to move to the United States if Prince Charles married Camilla Parker Bowles?
KING: Would one have anything to do with the other, Hugo?
VICKERS: I don't think so. I think we know he's not going to move to the United States. As I said before, I'm not so sure that Prince Charles is going to marry Camilla Parker Bowles. Certainly not in the immediate future. There's a lot of problems he has to go through.
But the implication is if they were to get married he would be irritated by this in some way and he would sort of push off to live abroad. And I don't think that's part of the equation at all, no.
KING: We'll take a break and come back with our remaining moments and a few more phone calls for our panel on the royals. This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): A fanfare of trumpets greeted the royal couple's arrival. The service was conducted part in English and part in Welsh. And Prince Charles read the second lesson.
PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES: And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, should keep your hearts and minds through Jesus Christ.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The princess is still struggling to learn the Welsh language. And while Prince Charles confidently joined in the Welsh national anthem, she could manage only rather a shy small.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Back to the calls. Sault St. Marie, Ontario. Hello.
CALLER: Good evening, Larry. KING: Hi.
CALLER: I have an opportunity tonight to ask a couple of brief questions that I have long wondered about.
KING: Go.
CALLER: First of all, it's often said that the queen was never meant to be queen at birth. And she only got that position because of her uncle's abdication. Had he taken the thrown and died without an heir, would she not have become queen by order of succession anyway?
My second question is, would Edward VIII have the right to have been buried at the chapel in Windsor that is the traditional resting place for royals?
Thank you.
KING: Mr. Lacey.
LACEY: Well, two very good questions. The caller is absolutely right. If Edward had not had any children, she would have succeeded anyway. The point is, though, that at the time she was born in 1926, he was young, courting. There was every expectation he was going to marry and have children. And the exact comparison is with the daughters offer Fergie and the duke of York today. They are -- those princesses of York are exactly even right down to their title, the position that the queen was in. And of course, Charles' children have stood in the way of that succession.
KING: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, hello.
CALLER: One of your panels stated that William tends to boss Prince Harry around. I was just wondering if Harry resents this?
Do the boys fight or do they get on well?
KING: Kitty, do you know?
KELLEY: Yes, I do know. He occasionally resents it. In fact, his mother supposedly said that towards the -- before she died, of course, that Harry always wanted her to get remarried to have another child so that he wouldn't be the youngest and he wouldn't be bossed around all the time. William and Harry are close, though, but make no mistake about it, William knows that he is first and he does tend to -- he now tends to take care of Harry in a way.
KING: OK. We go to Kettering, Ohio, hello.
CALLER: At one time there were rumors...
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, At one time there were rumors going around that Prince Harry looked so much like James Hewitt. What ever came of that? KING: Mr. Vickers.
VICKERS: Well, nice idea, but I'm afraid that I have to tell you that...
KING: Timing doesn't work?
VICKERS: No. The dates don't fit. But having said that, can I also just answer that other question that wasn't answered about Saint George's Chapel and Edward VIII. He is buried at Frogmore with the Duchess of Windsor. The most important thing to him was that he should be buried with the duchess. It was a deal made with the queen in 1965 that this should take place. Had that not happened he would have been buried in France. He had a plot in France. He did lie in state in Saint George's Chapel and his funeral took place there. So, Saint George's Chapel was very much involved. So no he isn't actually buried there. But none of the other royal family members are. Only the kings and queens really now that are buried in Saint George's Chapel. Except Princess Margaret who very much wanted to be with her parents. So was cremated especially so her ashes could fit into the little chapel where King George and Queen Elizabeth are buried.
KING: Riverside, California, hello.
CALLER: Thank you, Larry, for taking my call. This call is about Diana. Thank goodness the boys look like her.
My question is, are the seat belt laws in France as stringent as they are in the United States, and if they were, would she have survived that crash if she had worn a seat belt?
KING: Harold, do we know the answer to that?
BROOKS-BAKER: We do not know the answer to that, but the chances are reasonably good that she might have survived. The trouble is that there's nobody from that crash who can really give us a clear indication because the driver, as you remember, was not really able to speak for some time after the crash, and he did not see everything that had happened. But perhaps we shouldn't think about this because it's all too sad. But it's rather nice that both boys look a great deal like the late princess of Wales.
KING: Last call. Atlanta, hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry. Two questions.
Does the queen have a good relationship with Sophie and Camilla?
And, is Prince William a spiritual person?
KING: Robert.
LACEY: The queen has a very, very good relationship with Sophie. She would, we suspect, have a good relationship with Camilla. They're very much the same hunting, shooting, riding ladies. But doesn't see her because the queen -- well, the queen continues to be very aware of the problems that Hugo has been talking about particularly between Charles and -- and there was one other question. I am sorry, I have forgotten the last bit.
KING: I forgot it, too. But we're running close on time.
Kitty -- we only have about 20 seconds.
Kitty, would you bet Prince William's going to make out OK?
KELLEY: Can't lose. Can't lose.
KING: Got it all?
KELLEY: Everything. Absolutely.
KING: I thank you all very much.
Robert Lacey, his book is Monarch.
Kitty Kelley, is working a book on the Bush Dynasty.
Harold Brooks Baker is with (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
And Hugo Vickers, a best selling biographer. His most recent book is "Alice."
We thank them all for being with us. And Arthel Neville will be coming aboard with headlines. Before that we're going to tell you about tomorrow night and the night after that. That's all ahead. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Tomorrow night Dr. Phil returns to LARRY KING LIVE, that is never dull.
On Thursday night the cast of "60 Minutes" about to celebrate its 35th anniversary on television. Look forward to that.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 13, 2003 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: Princess Diana's firstborn, that reluctant royal hunk, Prince William, is about to turn 21. Will he also make history by coming to America for more than just a visit? And why is news of a new royal pregnancy causing worry as well as joy? The latest palace intrigues with our expert panel. In London, the veteran royals watcher, Robert Lacey. His latest best seller is "Monarch," just out in paperback. In Washington, biographer Kitty Kelley, author of another best-seller, "The Royals." Back in London, Harold Brooks-Baker, publishing director of "Burke's Peerage," and another best-selling royals watcher, Hugo Vickers. And they're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
The latest issue of "People" magazine talks about "Will's women." Prince William will turn 21 on June 21, and they're going to give him a stamp. What is that all about, Robert?
ROBERT LACEY, AUTHOR, "MONARCH": Well, the stamp is a new thing. There's never been a 21-year-old member of the royal family had a stamp. I myself think it's rather a diversion, a substitute for the fact that when his birthday comes up next month, he's been very, very reluctant indeed to take part in any events. There were -- the BBC wanted to have a great big jamboree, rather like the concert in the palace gardens that was held last year for the queen's jubilee, and Prince William said no. He's clearly a young man with a will of his own and a great wish to preserve his private life for the immediate future, at least.
KING: To be on a stamp in America, Kitty Kelley, one has to be dead 10 years -- 21 years old and alive and a stamp. What do you make of it?
KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": Well, he's a member of the royal family. I think they're trying to make this monarchy, you know, the gift that keeps on giving. And they keep trying to stir up the pop culture and the youth. And they know that they've got a young man who's very, very popular, far more popular than his father is. And when you think about it, it's Princess Diana giving us again something.
KING: And Harold Brooks, is there also a coin, too?
HAROLD BROOKS-BAKER, PUB. DIR., "BURKE'S PEERAGE": There is a 5- pound coin coming out. I think Kitty Kelley is absolutely correct in the way she's analyzed the situation. It's a little bit as if the royal family is concerned the monarchy will not continue because a republic might come along one day, and this extremely attractive, handsome, charming, rather intelligent young man is there in the wings, waiting to take his place on the throne. But remember, it could be many years from now because the queen will be there until she dies. She's an anointed monarch. It's possible that she'll live, and we hope she will, another 30 years.
KING: Hugo Vickers, what was Prince Charles's 21st birthday like?
HUGO VICKERS, AUTHOR, "ALICE: PRINCESS ANDREW OF GREECE": Well, Prince Charles, of course, had the additional thing of being invested as Prince of Wales at Carnavon (ph) Castle, which was a great focal thing. And I rather think there was a stamp for that. And he would have been -- probably wouldn't have been (UNINTELLIGIBLE) exactly for his 21st, but he was 'round about 21 at the time. And then he had a party in Buckingham Palace, a dance for his friends, and that was about it. He was still very much involved in university life. And it wasn't a sort of a great, big national celebration, like the jubilee, certainly. And I think...
KING: What about...
VICKERS: ... that the same thing won't happen then.
KING: And what about stories -- we want all of you to get in on this. And by the way, we'll be taking calls early for the questions about the royals and our fascination, the fascination they're held in the United States.
Robert Lacey, what about the whole fuss over a 21-year-old boy, and now the story that he may come to, what, live in America? What do you make of that?
LACEY: Well, I'm sorry, Larry. I checked this out before the program with St. James's palace because I was sure you were going to ask this question. They are absolutely denying any possibility of William coming to America. They say that they would not advise it, that to be in a goldfish bowl of the celebrity culture is not what they would want for him at this stage in his life. And they also say -- and I think they're right in this -- it doesn't really fit with his character at the moment. In his gap year, before he went to university, he went off to the jungles of South America, worked on rather obscure farms in England.
As Kitty's already said, you know, we've got the echo of Diana here, but he also has the echo of Diana's shyness. And he lived with his mother through those traumatic years. He believes that the press killed his mother. So getting close to being exposed, as he would be in America, I don't think is on his agenda for some time yet.
KING: Kitty, he has been to the United States, though.
KELLEY: He has been to the United States, Larry. But you know something? If he lived here, he would not be able to control the American press. Now, granted, our tabloids are not what the British tabloids are, but still, he would not be afforded the same kind of protection. For awhile, he'd be a source of reverence and curiosity and a real celebrity, but he would be subject to an awful lot of scrutiny and coverage that he can control in the U.K.
KING: Does he plan, Harold, on military service?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well, to go back to the American possibility -- I have talked with two people who know him very well indeed, and they're convinced that he would like very much to live in America for an extended period of time. It is absolutely true, what Robert says. The palace does not like this idea. But I believe that he is showing the strong will that Edward the VIII, Duke of Windsor, showed with his friends, Mrs. Dudley Ward (ph) and Lady Furness (ph) and later on with Mrs. Simpson. I don't say that he's that much of a rebel, but he is heading a bit in that direction. And I think he'll be his own man.
KING: And your thoughts on the American aspect, Hugo?
VICKERS: Well, now, I agree with Robert. I don't think he's likely to go. Of course, he'd go for occasional visits. Why not? But I think, of course, I see him very much as a unifying factor, if it still is necessary to unify the royal family, insomuch that he is very much combining the best elements of both parents. And so that, you know, if you were kind of a Prince Charles man or a Princess Diana man, you've got both of them in Prince William. I think we're extraordinarily lucky to have him. I think he's -- he's obviously immensely popular. He's good-looking. He stands well. He's academically bright. I think he's got a lot going for him.
KING: What about the military, Robert?
LACEY: Sorry? I didn't hear that last question, Larry.
KING: The military. Does he plan on armed services of any kind?
LACEY: Well, that is an option that I would -- if I were a betting man, would put money on. During his gap year, which again, as I say, we can take as a guide to what his tastes are, he did social service and he also did military service. He chose, rather against his mother's wishes, when he was at Eaton to join the cadet corps there. He passed out as the top cadet. He served with the Welsh Guards in the jungle on training missions.
And when you think of it, for an adventurous, dashing young man, a spell in the military would have a lot to offer, and it would address this question we keep coming back to -- media scrutiny. In a military situation, it would be pretty -- you know, pretty well organized. Though, of course, we'll always perhaps try to send some embedded reporters, like we had during the war. The interest will obviously be there.
KING: We'll ask about his younger brother. We'll ask about Sophie's pregnancy. And we'll go to your phone calls. We're talking royals tonight on LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Kitty Kelley, how does the younger brother, Harry, handle all the attention given his older brother? KELLEY: Well, you know, they're very, very close, but William does tend to boss him quite a bit. On the subject of the military, though, Larry, it's Harry who wants to make the army a career. And he's even dropped one of his courses in order that he's going to pass two courses, get passing grades and get admitted into Sandringhurst (ph), which is a training ground for the best British officers. So his career is established. He knows what he wants to do, although his father would really like him to become a college graduate. He's said no to that.
William, on the other hand, really does have an awful lot of choices to make because, as Harold said, if he becomes -- I mean, when he becomes king, it's a long way away. I mean, we still have a very, very healthy queen on the throne now and a son who's just -- can hardly wait to be king, and he's well into middle age. So William will have to go out and carve a career for himself before he takes on the throne.
KING: Now, how about the controversial Sophie of Edward and Sophie fame, Harold? She is expecting. Will that change the image?
BROOKS-BAKER: I don't think it'll change the image at all, really, because the -- Prince Edward will certainly drift more and more into obscurity. He's a very charming young man. Of that there's no question. And everyone's thrilled that his wife is expecting a child. But after all, there would be no reason to hear a great deal from either of them in the distant future. Yes, in the near future, we'll know what they have for breakfast and what holidays they go on, but that'll be the end of it because there will be the future wife of both the princes coming up in the not too distant future, and you'll have children, and so forth. And it will be like many other members of the royal family. Who in the world can spot the Duke of Gloucester as he walks down the street? And yet he is fairly close.
KING: Hugo Vickers, before we go to phone calls -- and a lot of people want to talk about the royals -- what about the state of Prince Philip's health? There were rumors of prostate cancer.
VICKERS: No, Prince Philip -- they're always trying to make rumors about Prince Philip's health. And if you see Prince Philip, he's incredibly healthy. He's still driving. The only thing he's not going to do this year, I understand, is to actually ride to the trooping the color. And that's fair enough. I mean, he will be 82 this year, and why should he, at that age? But no, he's fine. And the queen is also looking extremely good. I saw the queen on Saturday night, and she's having a real sort of, like, sort of an Indian summer in her reign. I mean, she looks fantastic. I mean, she looks radiant and very, very lively and bright. And I think she's in very good shape, as well. As you know, she had a difficult time earlier in the year with her knee, but she's really looking fantastic.
KING: No possibility, then, of abdication, right, Hugo?
VICKERS: No. As Harold said, an anointed queen, and she takes that very seriously. And there's absolutely no reason why she should abdicate. She can hand over a certain amount of responsibilities to the Prince of Wales, should she so wish to do. And does already hand him over a few things. He does a few investitures for her, and so forth, and he might travel a little bit more in her place. But there's absolutely no reason why she should abdicate, and I've always said she won't. And she, I'm glad to say, every now and again also tells us that she's not going to abdicate. She...
(CROSSTALK)
VICKERS: ... at speeches, for example, to the House of Parliament.
KING: Just to be able to say, That's my son, the king, would be a big thrill.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Anyway, let's go to calls. Ellijay in Georgia. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry. I would like to ask your outstanding panel, do they think Prince Charles will soon marry Camilla Parker-Bowles? And also, how much taxpayer -- British taxpayer money does it cost to fund the monarchy.
KING: Robert?
LACEY: I'll take second question first, the easy one. Last year, the monarchy cost, excluding security costs, which are always kept secret, 37 million pounds. What's that, $50 million, $55 million? That's what it costs the taxpayer. It's about the cost of one attack helicopter and missiles. There is this image, particularly cultivated by opponents of the monarchy in this country, that it's an incredibly expensive and wasteful institution. In fact, it's getting more and more open and actually publishes accounts every year in which you can read what the royal family's costing.
Now, the $64,000 question. I'm sure everybody here on the panel has got their views on it. Will Charles and Camilla marry? My view is that they will, but not for the foreseeable future. It was much talked about last year, with all the good will surrounding the jubilee. And then along came the fuss over the royal butlers and the official report, well, the royal report into what was wrong at St. James's palace.
And my view of Charles and Camilla is that the gauge, when people discuss whether or not they're going to get married, is all to do with how people feel about Prince Charles. If they're happy and they think he's right as the future king, then everybody says, Yes, he should get married. And certainly, at the moment, I think he's got a bit of rebuilding of his image to do.
KING: Kitty, what do you think?
KELLEY: Well, I can't believe that Robert said that the easy question was answering how much the monarchy costs. I think that's the tough question because it's hidden in various places. I think $50 million is a very conservative answer. And on the Charles and Camilla, I, as a betting woman, would have to say absolutely, yes. I know that the queen would prefer that they don't get married for a while. I think that she feels that a marriage to Camilla Parker- Bowles will incite the public and that perhaps they're not ready for it. But Charles is a man who's going to be king, and he's going to marry Camilla Parker-Bowles.
KING: Harold, what do you think?
BROOKS-BAKER: Oh, I think that Kitty is absolutely spot on. It's just a matter of time before the announcement is made. The bad publicity for the royal family recently, only eclipsed by the war in Iraq, has been rather disconcerting, to put it mildly. But when things calm down again and everyone loves Prince Charles, the announcement will probably be made.
I would like to say one thing about the cost of the royal family. The money from the crown lands outweighs the amount of money spent on the royal family by the British taxpayer. And I would say that she is -- the queen is the only head of state in the world who pays the equivalent of 40 million to 50 million pounds a year to have a job that nobody in his right mind would wish to have.
KING: Yes, but where does she get the money from? Hugo, do you make it unanimous about the marriage? I got to take a break.
VICKERS: No, I don't. And I've always taken the view that there's a lot of complications in this matter of this marriage. I rather blame some of Prince Charles's house help, particularly people like Bob Boland (ph), for pushing Camilla so far into the foreground that you really -- the next step is bound to lead of something of a constitutional crisis. I mean, you -- inevitably, you've got the Royal Marriage Act. You've got the question of the church. That is changing a little bit. All sorts of different things like that which would have to be faced. I think it's rather a shame.
KING: Let me get a break, come back and go to a lot more phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Dr. Phil returns to this show tomorrow night. As we go to break, here's a picture of Prince Charles, and the age then was 21. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're talking royals, and we go to Tucson, Arizona. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. The question I have for the panel was, when they issue the stamp for Prince William's 21st birthday, will they be doing it like they did when they honored Princess Diana? Will they be doing it just for Great Britain or the entire commonwealth?
KING: Robert?
LACEY: No, these are just British stamps. You know, I think four values (ph). And actually, the stamp you're all going to get in America when we put it on our air mail letters to you is that formal one I think you're looking at there at the moment. And the rather nice and more casual ones -- here we are again -- is what we're going to use.
There's nothing to stop countries all 'round the world, and many sort of lesser countries appropriate pictures of the royal family and stick them on. What's significant about these stamps is they'll be relatively limited, and I'm sure will have quite a lot of value in the future.
KING: I think the only non-America on a U.S. stamp is Churchill, I believe. To Branson, Missouri. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. I was trying to ask the question -- since Prince William already has his -- hello?
KING: Yes. Go ahead.
CALLER: OK. Since Prince William already has the title of prince, should he get married, will his wife be titled princess, just like Princess Diana was?
KING: Kitty?
KELLEY: Yes, she will be. He -- yes. The answer -- the short answer is yes.
KING: In other words, when a prince marries someone, they're a princess.
KELLEY: That's right, especially in this case.
KING: Sounds logical. Toronto. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. Hi, Larry. My question for the panel is -- I've watched your show -- I guess this was about a year ago -- with James Hewitt. I just want to know, with the letters, did William buy those, or is he still holding out for the highest bidder?
KING: Harold, do you know?
CLINTON: I'm sorry?
KING: I'm asking Harold to answer your question. Do you know?
BROOKS-BAKER: I think that -- yes. I do not know what has happened to that information, but the feeling against Hewitt was so great that I think he ran for cover.
KING: What do you -- do you know anything further, Hugo? He was on this show, and he said he didn't do it for the money.
VICKERS: I remember. I know. Well, what did he do it for, in that case, I'd like to ask? I'm not a great fan of Captain Hewitt, I'm afraid. And I sincerely hope, really, that the whole thing with the letters will disappear. I mean, in a sense, we kind of know what's in the letters now because there's been so many extracts and so many things have appeared at different times. Wouldn't it be nice if he just handed them back? But is he going to do that? No, he isn't. KING: New York City. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry, good show. Wishing the prince a wonderful birthday. My question is that his grandparents are very firm in terms during World War II. They were steadfast on staying in England. Considering the global situation today within the world, we haven't heard much from Prince William, what is their situation concerning the fact that England and America have been standing so closely, rightly so, with each other.
KING: Robert, will he speak out on things like that?
LACEY: No. No, he won't.
KING: Why is that?
LACEY: Since we're entering -- well, because it's the constitutional role of the monarchy to be above politics. It's not much of a secret here in London circles that Prince Charles was fiercely opposed to the war in Iraq. And there was even talk that a visit that he was planning to make a visit to America was canceled when the White House got to hear that he was so against it. He reflected the feelings of many people here. Now, that's not to say that he and the royal family haven't done marvelous work, backing up the troops and visiting the families of the boys and girls who were out in the Gulf. But no, The whole essence of our royal family is that they do not pronounce on controversial matters like this.
KING: In other words, they didn't speak out in World War II against Hitler?
LACEY: Ah. Well, I think a lot of people in this country would view the recent war of choice that we had with Iraq as rather different from the war of absolute national defense against Hitler.
KING: We will now go to Centreville, Ohio. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. Thank you for taking my call, Larry. What I wondered is if Prince William comes -- well, not of age, but at a point where he would be able to be king and he doesn't want to take the position, what happens then?
KING: Does it go to Harry, Kitty?
KELLEY: Well, he would have to abdicate, and that would...
KING: You mean he has to be anointed king?
KELLEY: No, he'd have to -- he has to be anointed king, if he's going to be king. If he's not going to be king, he's going to have to step down, and that...
KING: From what?
KELLEY: From being king.
KING: But he's not -- I mean, does he not accept it, then he's never been king, so what is he abdicating?
KELLEY: Well, no. It is his to be king upon the death or -- of his father, after his father is king.
KING: Then if he chooses not to be, is Harry the king?
KELLEY: Yes. Well, he is right now. But if Prince William, at the time that he says he doesn't want to be king, has a child, then that child would be the king.
KING: A-ha! Go raise a family. We'll take a break and come back with more phone calls. Dr. Phil tomorrow night. And the cast -- the whole crew of "60 Minutes" on Thursday night. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back.
The new issue of "People" magazine, by the way, still on the stands. Has a whole page devoted to William and his women. It's called "Will's Women." There you see "Royal Watch."
And let's reintroduce our panel.
Robert Lacey is in London, best selling author, veteran royal watcher. His book, "Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II" is now out in paper back. There is its cover.
Kitty Kelley is best selling biographer, author of "The Royals" and working on a book about the Bush dynasty.
In London is Harold Brooks-Baker, the publishing director of the distinguished "Birch Peerage."
And in London is Hugo Vickers, best-selling biographer, veteran royal watcher and among his books is "Alice: Princess Andrew of Greece," a biography of Prince Phillip's mother.
Back to the calls. Vancouver, British Columbia, hello.
CALLER: Hello.
KING: Yes, go ahead.
CALLER: I was just wondering what is the protocol when Charles becomes king? Would there be a formal investiture for William to become prince of Wales? And would it happen at the same time as the coronation?
KING: Harold, we will go to you on this one.
BROOKS-BAKER: I think it's impossible to know what's going to happen because first of all, he doesn't have to be made prince of Wales. Secondly, we don't know what kind of ceremony will take place next time. I think probably one that is very different than the one that the queen went through. I believe the queen will be the last anointed monarch. Therefore, anyone who takes the throne in the future will be able to step down like their cousins on the continent are able to. But this is speculation.
We don't know what will happen is the answer and it's a long way away, at least 20 to 30 years. But of course, only God knows.
KING: Cattletsburg, Kentucky, hello.
CALLER: Yes, I'm wondering what William's future schooling plans are and what is Harry studying?
KING: Hugo?
VICKERS: I don't know what Harry is studying at the moment. He's still at -- he's still at school. I mean, he entered -- as Robert was saying, there's a chance are that he's going to go into the military.
But I wonder if it would be possible just to revert this question about coronations because it is rather interesting one and I think it's quite a significant one.
I don't agree at all with Howard that Prince Charles won't be anointed. I think that there may be a difference in the ceremony, but when a -- when a -- when a monarch dies, another one automatically takes over. But there is kind of a deal with the nation, if you'd like, which is what the coronation is all about.
The taking of the coronation oath is the promise of the new monarch to serve the people. And only when the coronation oath has been taken can the anointing and crowning then take place afterwards. And in a sense it's like the coronation ceremony. We're just coming up on the 2nd of June to the anniversary, the 50th anniversary of the queen's coronation. It's symbolic of the acceptance by the people of the new monarch and acceptance of the new monarch to serve. And that's the really important thing about it. And the anointing, as Harold does make clear, is absolutely the most crucial part of it.
KING: Grundy, Virginia, hello.
CALLER: Hello?
KING: Yes. Go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, I have a quick comment and a quick question.
My comment is, evidently we cannot -- we can say that William gets his looks from his mother.
My question is, what is his relationship with his family and what bearing will the family have on if and when he decides to get married? What kind of bearing do they have on that decision?
KING: Robert? LACEY: If I heard the questioner right, it's about William, how he gets on with his family.
KING: Yes.
LACEY: Remarkably -- remarkably well.
You know, at the time of Diana's death and, of course, Lord Spencer's famous incendiary speech, there was a suggestion that these boys would somehow be between their two blood families.
And what has definitely happened in the last five years is that although they may look a bit like Spencers, these boys have very much behaved as Windsors and are terribly happy to be Windsors. They get on remarkably well with the often criticized Prince Phillip, who may be a crusty grandfather, but is somebody they turn to.
We've been asking what Harry is going to do when he finishes school and goes to university. Well, a month or so ago he was seen down in Bristol, a west country town, with his grandfather, Prince Phillip, looking round the local university to see if it was the sort of place for him.
The -- particularly under the picture of the press, these boys retreat to the family -- the family retreats, spend a lot of time with them, get on tremendously well, for example, with their cousins, Zara Phillips and her brother.
KING: Fitchburg, Massachusetts, hello.
CALLER: Hello. I have a question.
Sophie Rees-Jones has an uncanny resemblance to Diana. Is there any chance she'll ever change her appearance and maybe, I don't know, have her own identity?
Also, Sarah Ferguson has lost quite a bit of weight as a spokeswoman for Weight Watchers. I thought she had lived with Prince Andrew even after their divorce. Any chance they'll get remarried and how does the family feel of her -- that she's still spokeswoman for Weight Watchers.
KING: All right, let's (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Kitty Kelley, want to handle that?
KELLEY: Boy, this caller would make a great managing editor.
Let's see. Which one do we take first?
KING: The woman who looks like Di.
KELLEY: The woman who looks like Di. That has been a very, very hard thing for Sophie Rees -- what do I call her the countess of Wessex? Is that right?
It's been very, very hard for her. I understand that comments have been made where she fails to live up to the physical beauty of the princess of Wales and it is very, very tough for her, which is one reason I think they're very, very happy with this pregnancy.
She's now 38-years-old. She had a pregnancy almost two years ago and was -- did not carry to term. So everyone has got their fingers crossed on this one because the palace is hoping that motherhood will just absolutely...
KING: And what about -- and what about Fergula?
KELLEY: Fergula. She -- what was the question? Oh, will she remarry? That was the abiding wish of her dear beloved father, that Fergie and Andrew would get back together. But I think they seem to get along very, very well unmarried, perhaps better than they did married.
KING: Does the family mind her doing the things for Weight Watchers?
KELLEY: I don't think the family has much to say about that, Larry. I think that...
KING: That's yesterday.
KELLEY: Yes. Today they won't have anything to do with her.
KING: We'll get a break and be back with more, more phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Harold, we forgot the second part of one of the questions asked by one of the viewers which was what influence will the family have over who Prince William marries? Harold?
BROOKS-BAKER: Well I think it's perfectly obvious that as things stand today, a great deal of an influence in every conceivable way. Prince Philip is certainly not going to disappear tomorrow, and he seems to be calling the shots. The queen is of immense importance. And I think that unless for some strange reason is decided that Prince William will never be king, he will have to abide many of their wishes, if not most of them.
Now, of course, we don't know all the pressures that are put on various grandchildren and children of the monarch because we're not living in Buckingham Palace or at Windsor. But, you can be certain that it is a very closely knit family and they will tow the line.
KING: Clarington, Ohio. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. We love your show.
KING: Thank you.
CALLER: And I would like to know if Prince Harry has a steady girlfriend?
KING: Does he, Robert?
LACEY: I wish you'd ask me about William because we know quite a lot about William. I'm not sure I entirely agree with what Harold's just said. I think this young man is going to make his own mind up about who he marries.
KING: Who is -- does he have a girlfriend?
LACEY: Yes, he has a girlfriend, we believe, called Kate Middleton (ph). You've been talking about "People" magazine. They've got very good information about it. What's remarkable is she's sharing his flat where he's living up at St. Andrew's University with a couple of other young people. And they seem to make up a group of young men and women who go out together, spend time together...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: And Harry?
LACEY: No. Well according to "People" magazine, again, Harry plays the field much more. And we certainly see lots of photographs of him and all sorts of attractive young ladies. It's polo season now. We are going to get a lot of photos...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: So polo is a meeting place like the mall in America?
KELLEY: You got it.
LACEY: Absolutely. Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Glenn Cove, New York, hello.
CALLER: Hi, Larry. Has it said what William wants to do for his 21st birthday?
KING: Do we know, Kitty?
KELLEY: Yes, we do. We know the palace would love to have a huge, huge celebration. And William doesn't want that because he feels that the palace would just use it as a good news publicity stunt. What he wants, really, is to have a dance with his own friends, very, very private. And I think he'll probably get his way on this one.
KING: Princeton, Indiana, hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry. Thank you very much. We talked about earlier how much it costs the monarchy keeps going. How many jobs would they lose if they discontinued the monarchy in England, which everybody would like to get rid of? KING: Harold?
BROOKS-BAKER: What would happen indeed if the monarchy was set aside, I believe that it's only necessary to look and see what has happened to the cousins of the royal family on the continent who have lost their thrones in many ways these countries have lost their way.
You've seen what's happened in Italy. One government after the other. They have not been able to really replace the royal family. And it is, I believe, very easy to talk about a republic. It is very difficult to think about what the consequences would be and how difficult it would be to install it.
KING: Mountain View, Missouri. Hello.
CALLER: Yes, I'd like to know would Prince William more likely to move to the United States if Prince Charles married Camilla Parker Bowles?
KING: Would one have anything to do with the other, Hugo?
VICKERS: I don't think so. I think we know he's not going to move to the United States. As I said before, I'm not so sure that Prince Charles is going to marry Camilla Parker Bowles. Certainly not in the immediate future. There's a lot of problems he has to go through.
But the implication is if they were to get married he would be irritated by this in some way and he would sort of push off to live abroad. And I don't think that's part of the equation at all, no.
KING: We'll take a break and come back with our remaining moments and a few more phone calls for our panel on the royals. This is LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): A fanfare of trumpets greeted the royal couple's arrival. The service was conducted part in English and part in Welsh. And Prince Charles read the second lesson.
PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES: And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, should keep your hearts and minds through Jesus Christ.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The princess is still struggling to learn the Welsh language. And while Prince Charles confidently joined in the Welsh national anthem, she could manage only rather a shy small.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Back to the calls. Sault St. Marie, Ontario. Hello.
CALLER: Good evening, Larry. KING: Hi.
CALLER: I have an opportunity tonight to ask a couple of brief questions that I have long wondered about.
KING: Go.
CALLER: First of all, it's often said that the queen was never meant to be queen at birth. And she only got that position because of her uncle's abdication. Had he taken the thrown and died without an heir, would she not have become queen by order of succession anyway?
My second question is, would Edward VIII have the right to have been buried at the chapel in Windsor that is the traditional resting place for royals?
Thank you.
KING: Mr. Lacey.
LACEY: Well, two very good questions. The caller is absolutely right. If Edward had not had any children, she would have succeeded anyway. The point is, though, that at the time she was born in 1926, he was young, courting. There was every expectation he was going to marry and have children. And the exact comparison is with the daughters offer Fergie and the duke of York today. They are -- those princesses of York are exactly even right down to their title, the position that the queen was in. And of course, Charles' children have stood in the way of that succession.
KING: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, hello.
CALLER: One of your panels stated that William tends to boss Prince Harry around. I was just wondering if Harry resents this?
Do the boys fight or do they get on well?
KING: Kitty, do you know?
KELLEY: Yes, I do know. He occasionally resents it. In fact, his mother supposedly said that towards the -- before she died, of course, that Harry always wanted her to get remarried to have another child so that he wouldn't be the youngest and he wouldn't be bossed around all the time. William and Harry are close, though, but make no mistake about it, William knows that he is first and he does tend to -- he now tends to take care of Harry in a way.
KING: OK. We go to Kettering, Ohio, hello.
CALLER: At one time there were rumors...
KING: Go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, At one time there were rumors going around that Prince Harry looked so much like James Hewitt. What ever came of that? KING: Mr. Vickers.
VICKERS: Well, nice idea, but I'm afraid that I have to tell you that...
KING: Timing doesn't work?
VICKERS: No. The dates don't fit. But having said that, can I also just answer that other question that wasn't answered about Saint George's Chapel and Edward VIII. He is buried at Frogmore with the Duchess of Windsor. The most important thing to him was that he should be buried with the duchess. It was a deal made with the queen in 1965 that this should take place. Had that not happened he would have been buried in France. He had a plot in France. He did lie in state in Saint George's Chapel and his funeral took place there. So, Saint George's Chapel was very much involved. So no he isn't actually buried there. But none of the other royal family members are. Only the kings and queens really now that are buried in Saint George's Chapel. Except Princess Margaret who very much wanted to be with her parents. So was cremated especially so her ashes could fit into the little chapel where King George and Queen Elizabeth are buried.
KING: Riverside, California, hello.
CALLER: Thank you, Larry, for taking my call. This call is about Diana. Thank goodness the boys look like her.
My question is, are the seat belt laws in France as stringent as they are in the United States, and if they were, would she have survived that crash if she had worn a seat belt?
KING: Harold, do we know the answer to that?
BROOKS-BAKER: We do not know the answer to that, but the chances are reasonably good that she might have survived. The trouble is that there's nobody from that crash who can really give us a clear indication because the driver, as you remember, was not really able to speak for some time after the crash, and he did not see everything that had happened. But perhaps we shouldn't think about this because it's all too sad. But it's rather nice that both boys look a great deal like the late princess of Wales.
KING: Last call. Atlanta, hello.
CALLER: Yes, Larry. Two questions.
Does the queen have a good relationship with Sophie and Camilla?
And, is Prince William a spiritual person?
KING: Robert.
LACEY: The queen has a very, very good relationship with Sophie. She would, we suspect, have a good relationship with Camilla. They're very much the same hunting, shooting, riding ladies. But doesn't see her because the queen -- well, the queen continues to be very aware of the problems that Hugo has been talking about particularly between Charles and -- and there was one other question. I am sorry, I have forgotten the last bit.
KING: I forgot it, too. But we're running close on time.
Kitty -- we only have about 20 seconds.
Kitty, would you bet Prince William's going to make out OK?
KELLEY: Can't lose. Can't lose.
KING: Got it all?
KELLEY: Everything. Absolutely.
KING: I thank you all very much.
Robert Lacey, his book is Monarch.
Kitty Kelley, is working a book on the Bush Dynasty.
Harold Brooks Baker is with (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
And Hugo Vickers, a best selling biographer. His most recent book is "Alice."
We thank them all for being with us. And Arthel Neville will be coming aboard with headlines. Before that we're going to tell you about tomorrow night and the night after that. That's all ahead. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Tomorrow night Dr. Phil returns to LARRY KING LIVE, that is never dull.
On Thursday night the cast of "60 Minutes" about to celebrate its 35th anniversary on television. Look forward to that.
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