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CNN Larry King Live

Interview with Robert Klein, Barbara Kline, Linda Ellerbee, Richard Haass, Larry King's Children

Aired June 19, 2005 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Robert Klein, the comics' comic. Just ask Jerry Seinfeld and Joan Rivers and just wait 'til you hear his hilarious stories about love and lust and growing up and more, plus TV news great Linda Ellerbee on surviving cancer and taking big bites out of life itself. And then Barbara Kline, the president of the White House Nannies. She has a really intimate and behind-the- scenes view of life in Washington. And Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations and a former State Department official with some surprising ideas on how America can shape a safe future in an age of terrorism.
And a special Father's day treat. All of my children join me right here. They are all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

A great pleasure to welcome the LARRY KING LIVE an old friend, a terrific talent, Robert Klein, the acclaimed comic and actor working on his eighth HBO special and offer of a terrific new memoir, "The Amorous Busboy of Decatur Avenue." Much of this book concentrates on your amorous life. Why, Robert?

ROBERT KLEIN, COMIC: Because that meant so much to me when sex was new. Oh, to get back that feeling. Like the first baseball mitt, the first sex, how forbidden it was. In the fifties I had dreams about touching a naked woman and she would turn to bronze or the dream about hot dogs chasing donuts through the Lincoln Tunnel. All sex was in dreams and then the sixties hit, sexual revolution. So much more fun than the French or Bolshevik Revolution.

KING: What prompted you to do the bio now?

KLEIN: Mark Gompers (ph) at Simon & Schuster has been after me for many, many years for me to write a book and I didn't want some pop-up goofy airport book. It had to be good. So it took me five years because in the interim I have been doing a lot of personal appearances and movies and some television series that went into the plumbing and I stopped writing for a while.

And it stops at the age of 25. It starts at the age of eight and there is some serious stuff and some comic, tragic-comic stuff like when I brought a German girl home to my Jewish parents in the Bronx. It is a wonderful story. I met her at the World's Fair and I told my folks, you know, she is away from home. She was such a wonderful, sweet woman without a trace of prejudice and I told my parents I want to make her feel at home, she is so far from Munich.

And my father said, want me to make her feel at home? I'll show her pictures of Auschwitz. She'll feel at home. So I started out with that. And then when he wins her over it's like humanity, two disparate parts of humanity meeting and meeting somewhere - at a beautiful spot.

KING: Why, Robert, was busboy such a part of your life?

KLEIN: Well, it personified my youth, working as a busboy in the Catskill Mountain resorts and living a Dickensian life, middle-class children, pre-dental students eating scraps and being humiliated by kitchen staff with tattoos in 110 degrees who called you by what your order is. French toast, pick up. I kill you. Hey, you tuna salad, I kick your ass too. Hey.

It was a terrible existence but the only respite was dreaming that you get lucky with a girl and again ...

KING: Back to that.

KLEIN: It's not a kiss and tell but it - because it was so new and wonderful. And the show business aspect, it leaves off when I am just beginning.

KING: You are starting.

KLEIN: And the only studies were - Rodney Dangerfield was my mentor and he was my Yale drama school for comedy. Rodney - I tell this - no way - Rodney, I tell this story - He went to Cape Cod ...

KING: Did you know early on you wanted to be a comic?

KLEIN: I was a class clown. My father was a class clown. My son has been a class clown and it sort of ran in the family. But to do it professionally is a quantum leap difference and my father had to be persuaded by these kind of Ivy League professors that I should go to the Yale Drama School, another one of the stories in there.

And relationships with Richard Pryor and with Bette Midler who came in ...

KING: It's a great read. Do you count acting as much as an accomplishment as comedy to you?

KLEIN: I don't think so.

KING: No? Because you are a great actor. You really are.

KLEIN: Thanks very much. I enjoy that too. But I think the other is a little more like bullfighting, a little more daring and although I appreciate good acting and I liked being versatile my whole career, it kept me working. Kept me interested. Has kept me going. Kept me interested. And this book is - I am pretty proud of it, Larry, it's pretty good stuff.

KING: By the way, you did a great "Law & Order" as the bad guy talk show host.

KLEIN: You know who I was supposed to be?

KING: Who were you supposed ...

KLEIN: Geraldo. Kind of a Geraldo style.

KING: You were terrific. Did you ever get early on to work the mountains as a comic.

KLEIN: Yes. Yes. But only when I got a reputation after doing the "Tonight Show" 80-odd times. I played the Concorde and the Grossingers but the part at the bottom as the busboy and as the lifeguard was the part I wrote about. I saved a kid's life, some brat. He was bothering the staff, all college students, the bellhops, he sat in the luggage. And he almost drowned. He couldn't swim. I saved his life. His parents tipped me five dollars. I could have gotten 15 from the staff to let him drown. We were looking for money for tuition.

KING: Is the Bronx still inside you?

KLEIN: It is. You know, I participated in the 350th anniversary thing. Their celebration. Regis and I were inducted into the original Bronx Walk of Fame. The put a scroll up near the courthouse outside of Yankee Stadium. You're a Brooklyn guy, aren't you?

KING: I'm in the Brooklyn Hall of Flame. Hey, it's a flip ...

KLEIN: You're an island people. We're a mainland people.

KING: That's right. You were out dere da Bronx.

KLEIN: The '50s were terrifying with nuclear bomb stuff but boring in a social way and then the '60s were happening, and remember, there was no AIDS. Remember the good old care free days of syphilis and gonorrhea? Things you could deal with, you know?

KING: The HBO special, how close are we getting to it done?

KLEIN: They have chosen an airdate I think the second week in December. It will be my eighth one. It will be the 30th anniversary of the first one which I did at Haverford College in 1975 and it certainly changed things. They had 400,000 subscribers then ...

KING: Oh boy.

KLEIN: And they have about 43 million now, and it is all because of me, Larry. You know that.

KING: Well, you have been one of their Ts (ph) and they take risks. They are a great network.

KLEIN: They never censored a word.

KING: I know.

KLEIN: Nor did anyone censor any of my book. It is the most creative freedom you can have, in this, the 21st century, I can assure you.

KING: Thank you Robert. Best of luck, man.

KLEIN: Thank you, Larry.

KING: Robert Klein, the book, "The Amorous Busboy of Decatur Avenue." What a talent. What a book. We'll be right back.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE one of my favorite people and what a talent. Linda Ellerbee, the veteran television correspondent, her Lucky Duck Productions has won multiple Emmies, Peabodies, a Dupont Award, she is the bestselling author and the new book is "Take Big Bites, Adventures around the world and across the table."

Give me the genesis of this.

LINDA ELLERBEE, TV CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think I got tired about writing about the bombing down the block and thought I would write instead about how I traveled and ate my way around the world while pretending to committing journalism.

KING: Well, is the emphasis more on the food or the journalism?

ELLERBEE: Well, the emphasis is really on - "Take Big Bites" is an attitude about life, Larry, more than it is about food but each on of these chapters takes place in a different time in my life, in a different place in the world and it relates of food sort of marginally in that there are connections in life between food and memory and right now I am sort of - One of the things I wanted to do in this book is urge people to get out and travel because I think it was a time we need to be meeting one another in this world instead of isolating and to break bread with somebody is a symbol of peace, so leave home, if you love your country, leave it and get out there and go meet and eat with other people around the world.

And I thought if I told my own funny stories about travel, maybe I could encourage smarter people to go.

KING: And you believe in second helpings, right, in life?

ELLERBEE: I do. You don't get second chances, but a book like this, it allowed me to go back for second helpings and sort of hold the first 60 years up to the light, dust off a few memories, and see where I was and very often I discovered I still at 60 didn't know where I was. For my 60th birthday I decided to hike the River Thames 200 miles across England by myself and, well, I got lost following the river twice.

KING: What does travel bring you? What is it about the lure of the old Bing Crosby song, "Far Away Places"? ELLERBEE: I like different things. I like to know that there are different people in different places in this world and I like to go out and meet them but it was my father who first persuaded me a foot in the road was a pretty good place for a foot to be and I like the fact, for example, I tell the story about going to a restaurant in Italy and I had such a wonderful meal and I was clearly so enthusiastic that the owner chef and his wife wouldn't let me pay and when I asked why they said because you enjoyed yourself too much and cooking is too hard to do for only money.

So I went back a year later, a year passed and I was back in Italy, I was in the same restaurant, had another wonderful meal, and when I asked for the check, they said no you can't pay and I said, why not this time? And they said, Linda, you are a regular.

KING: Well, why do you like and recommend traveling alone?

ELLERBEE: Well, I think you can go on really interesting trips with other people but to be a real traveler, traveling alone is the way to go. You are forced to engage with another culture if you are alone in ways that you aren't if you are with somebody else. You can spend all your time talking together and never talk to the people around you.

Plus, I think when you are alone you get to choose. I get to choose when I get up, when I go to bed, what I do, what I eat. The main thing about it is this meeting other people. We were all taught as children, don't talk to strangers, and while that may be a good advice for children, as grown ups when you talk to strangers, they stop being strangers.

KING: Why is lunch the sexiest meal?

ELLERBEE: Because it comes in the middle of the day. Dinner is kind of too laden with being too near to bedtime and breakfast the same way but from the other end. Lunch is the halfway point in the story. Something might happen, something might not happen. Now, mind you, I write a chapter about lunch being the sexiest meal of the day but I must confess that most of my lunches are about as sexy as most of yours.

KING: Yeah.

ELLERBEE: Actually, I don't know how sexy your lunches are, Larry.

KING: Not very sexy. Not very sexy. You went to Vietnam and in that you went with your son. What was that like?

ELLERBEE: Well, that chapter is called the prism of memory because it's about how we each carry our own prisms with us. My son was born in 1970. I was 50, he was 25 on this trip and Vietnam was brand new to Americans. The embargo had only been lifted that year and I think we saw two different Vietnams and certainly the people of Vietnam saw us differently. We were there and it was Liberation Day. It took us a bit to figure out they meant liberation from us. That was a bit odd and when we were leaving an American women came up to me and said, oh, it's such a poor country, and I allowed (ph) it how it was. And she said, we should have kept a base here. And I sort of looked at her and I said, ma'am, we lost that war. And she looked at me and said, well, a small base.

KING: Beautiful country, though, isn't it?

ELLERBEE: Oh, Larry, I had forgotten what beautiful country - if I ever knew what a beautiful country it was. It is stunning and the people of course were all very friendly. Of course, most of the people were under 25.

KING: Linda Ellerbee. She had a bout with cancer. We'll talk about that to the book, "Take Big Bites, Adventures around the world and across the table." Back with more after this.

ELLBERBEE (video clip): This show is about knowing the truth and helping yourself. First the truth. There are close to 50 million kids in America. Every year, about 4,600 are taken by strangers. Of those all but about 150 are returned to their families. So you can see by the numbers being taken from your family is never, ever going to happen to most of you. Never.

And yet, having said that, we think it is your right to know about these things. We think it is your right to be safe.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Linda Ellerbee. The book is "Take Big Bites." What was it like to hear you had cancer, what was it like to battle it?

ELLERBEE: Well, it terrifies you. Nobody wants to die and no woman really wants to lose her breast but considering it was 13 years ago I would say it was a fair trade in my case. I still get, every morning there is that little "wow" moment as in, wow, I am still on the right side of the grass.

So in that case, my breast seemed to me to be frankly a small price to pay for that.

KING: Was there ever a time when you nearly bought it?

ELLERBEE: No. It was later one of my doctors told me that they really didn't think I would live three years, that the cancer was so aggressive. So I consider that I was very fortunate in that but I don't consider the fact that I lived has anything to do with my attitude. Many women with better attitudes than I have died.

Women don't need a good attitude to get through cancer, what we need is a cure.

KING: How did it change you? ELLERBEE: Well, you do stop to smell the roses. You do tell the people you love that you love them. You start to notice the things in your life that count and I think I read about this in the book some and people come up and they say I was laughing out loud on one page and I was crying on the next and I think well isn't that just what life is life.

KING: Why do you like Thanksgiving and July Fourth so much?

ELLERBEE: I think because they are my two favorite holidays. Thanksgiving because it is a holiday completely associated with food and July Fourth because the food is so fresh and every year I go to the farmers' market and I get the freshest vegetables and grill something and one year the men in my family revolted and say they didn't want that they wanted hot dogs with French's mustard and ketchup in a squeeze bottle and Oreos and purple Kool-Aid with the sugar in it. And I thought, ooh, why do you want to eat trash and they told me to stop bullying them so I went to the grocery store and I bought those things but I stopped at the farmer's market on the way home and I bought some summer squash to make my mama's fresh summer squash casserole, because they couldn't have all junk food.

And I made it and it didn't taste right and I call my cousin Shirley in Texas and I said, what have I left out and I told her what I had put in and she said, well, Linda, you forgot to put in the Cheez-Wiz. And I put in the junk food and although it was completely wrong, it tasted right. And I forgave the men in my life for wanting to eat trash and they forgave me for not understanding that I wanted to eat trash, too, but my cousin Billy says to love people you have got to be prepared to forgive them 12 times a day.

KING: Linda, what do you think about the changes in television journalism?

ELLERBEE: I guess they mostly make me real happy that I am on the outside producing for Lucky Duck Productions. Gee. I some ways there are just natural changes. At some point Dan was going to retire, at some point Tom was going to retire and Peter, that's just a different situation. We just all want Peter back and healthy.

But these changes would have come eventually. The question is not really what has happened it's really what is going to happen next and I think I as you and all the journalists I know are sort of sitting back and just watching to see what that might be.

KING: Yeah, because we sure can't forecast it.

ELLERBEE: No. As a journalist. As a prophet I make a good journalist and nobody has offered to let me run their network yet.

KING: So what's next, Linda, what's the next production coming?

ELLERBEE: Well, we have a production coming up on Nickelodeon. We went to Israel to do a show about Israeli kids and Palestinian kids and the new peace process and to listen to the kids there talk to kids here about whether they think it will work, whether they think it won't. What anybody there is willing to give up to give peace a chance.

KING: Why do you like working with kids so much?

ELLERBEE: Well, they are smart, Larry. They're not dumb, they're just shorter and younger and if you listen to them and you show them respect the most wonderful, bright things come out of their mouths and you realize that we have sort of been dismissive of what their opinions are so we try to give them a voice. And I write some about this in the book but I think next I will probably write a book about 14 years of explaining the news to kids and how they really, in turn, explained journalism and the news to me.

KING: Thank you, Linda, it is always great to see you.

ELLERBEE: You too.

KING: Continued good luck. The book is "Take Big Bites: Adventures around the world and across the table." The author is Linda Ellerbee. We'll be right back.

ELLERBEE (video clip): Pass a law making it possible to register to vote at McDonalds.

Music should belong to anybody equally.

Any fool can make a rule, and I remind you, only dead fish swim with the stream.

All symbols mean only what we agree they mean, therefore everything depends on all this agreeing what they mean.

I have worn cowboy boots for as long as I can remember.

News makes you crazy because news is supposed to make you crazy.

And so it goes.

And so it goes.

And so it goes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: There's a delightful new book out, "White House Nannies, True tales from the other Department of Homeland Security." And the author is with us. Barbara Kline, the president of DC's premier nanny placement agency.

There are no actual nannies in the White House, are there?

BARBARA KLINE, "WHITE HOUSE NANNIES": There are not.

KING: What a cute title and works well. How did you get into that business of placing nannies?

KLINE: Well, about 20 years ago, or 22 years ago, I owned an ice cream parlor on Capitol Hill and one night somebody came in with a gun and I was on the floor with the gun over my head and I decided it was time to get into a new business and I had a three month old and it was just a natural. I started looking for childcare and nobody was really doing it well here. So that was the genesis of my business.

KING: What led to writing the book?

KLINE: I have had so much fun for 20 years dealing with parents and nannies and children in Washington I just had to share some of these stories.

KING: Are all the names real?

KLINE: Are all the names real? Absolutely not. We had to protect the guilty and the innocent, their names are there.

KING: What makes a good nanny?

KLINE: What makes a good nanny? A good nanny is someone who really wants to do the job. Someone who loves children, who really values what she does and of course is valued by her employer.

KING: And they have become, in modern society, indispensable, have they not?

KLINE: Well certainly in Washington they are because this is a working person's town and Washington would just grind to a halt if nannies weren't in their homes.

KING: And how do you find them. Who is your prototypical nanny?

KLINE: There is no prototypical nanny - Washington is filled - is the United Nations. We have nannies from every different background, but of course, as you know, in Washington, we're legal, so nannies are from all over the world, they are also local American girls, there is the gold standard British nanny. We run the gamut.

KING: Some parents, as you describe, are unwilling to take care of kids, right? They really depend totally on the nanny.

KLINE: Well, I don't think it is unwilling. As I said, I think Washington really is a working person's town so most people live here because they are working here so nannies become their enablers. They allow them to go to work. Because, as you know, if it's not working at home, it will not be working in the office.

KING: What about the nanny's place in the home? Are they in the family or not?

KLINE: I think it depends on the family. There are certain families who absolutely incorporate their nanny as part of the family, and there are other people, and there are codes for this, when they call in they say, I am really not looking for a friend. It is clear they will not be members of the family.

KING: But some parents on the other side get jealous of the child's affection for the nanny.

KLINE: Well, I have a couple thoughts on this. I know when I hired my own nanny and I was going to work, I wanted my children to love the nanny and to be bonded to her. I never worried that they would think, well, who is the mom. I think there is that feeling of jealousy, especially when the children refer to their nanny as mom. That could hurt.

KING: A lot of funny things happen with nannies, though, right?

KLINE: Oh, plenty ...

KING: Give me an example.

KLINE: Well, just the past year I was on a lacrosse field watching my daughter play and a couple came up to me and I had placed a nanny in their house many years ago and we were reminiscing and they shared a story with me that really shocked me. They had a pool house and their nanny had been living in the pool house. And when they left they found out that she had basically been running a brothel out of their pool house. I just wanted that lacrosse field to open up and swallow me at that moment.

KING: Do people steal nannies from other people?

KLINE: Oh my goodness, yes. I think they are very - the parks are dangerous places. The grocery store can be a dangerous place. Any place with a good nanny, she is fair to be poached.

KING: Is it a good paying job?

KLINE: Is it a good paying job? Do you have nannies?

KING: I sure do.

KLINE: Is it a good paying job?

KING: It sure is. Well, I believe in getting what you pay for.

KLINE: I agree with you and I think that we need to value the people who do this work and treat them as professionals.

KING: Well, I do. Do a lot of people not value that? I mean do you have a standard rate that you know they must get?

KLINE: We suggest - We don't tell anybody what to pay, we suggest that there is a market rate out there and it is always amusing and not amusing when people are attorneys and billing at $3-500 an hour and then we say you really need to pay this nanny $14-$16 an hour and they say, well, that's a lot of money, and we think not really.

KING: That sounds short to me. People seeking a nanny. Go through an agency?

KLINE: Absolutely.

KING: Because?

KLINE: I think you can do a lot of things online and I think you can buy your groceries, you can buy some clothes, I don't think you should buy your childcare provider online. I think you should go to a reputable agency and let them vet that candidate for you if you can afford to do that.

KING: Are high powered politicals, without naming names, who need nannies, are they tougher to deal with if they are solving world problems by day?

KLINE: I have to tell you that I have found in my experience in Washington, that some of the most highly-placed people are the easiest to deal with. My calls go through, the nannies calls go through because they know how important it is to have someone great taking care of their children when they are not there. Which is not to say we have not had our fair share of difficult clients.

KING: And if you want to be a nanny, where are you trained?

KLINE: There is a good question. In this country we have no professional school - we have very few, let's say, anymore. And in England there used to be a National Nursery Education Board certificate and I think we desperately need credentialing in this country. I am all for that.

KING: Thank you Barbara, it is a great read.

KLINE: Thanks for having me.

KING: Barbara Kline, the president of DC's premier nanny placing agency. The book is "White House Nannies." We'll be right back. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE the author of a very important book. He is Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations. Former director of policy planning in the State Department in the first term of this Bush administration. He is the author of "The Opportunity, America's Moment to Alter History's Course."

By the way, is the Council on Foreign Relations, is it still as controversial as it was years ago.

RICHARD HAASS, PRESIDENT, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: I don' think so. The fact that we are nonpartisan, independent of the government. Every once in a while we get the odd crank email, to be honest, but we're pretty down the center.

KING: What led to the book, Richard?

HAASS: Quite honestly, Larry, it was my concern that we were squandering this opportunity and let me just back up a bit. I really do think that because of American power, because of the fact that a war between the United States and other powers at this moment is really remote, is not going to happen. Because a lot of what we want to do in the world is actually quite acceptable to others. There's nothing narrowly American about trying to stop the spread of nuclear weapons or trying to promote free trade or stop genocide or stop terrorists. I actually think we have an extraordinary opportunity to organize the world, to use my favorite word, to integrate the world to deal with these problems but I am concerned we are squandering this opportunity.

KING: Why?

HAASS: Well, two reasons. On one hand I think we have almost gone out of our way to alienate a big chunk of the world. Anti- Americanism is at record heights and a lot of the other countries of the world are simply sitting on their hands. They are not working with us. But also a good deal of what we are doing has proved to be unbelievably expensive and we are beginning to undermine the foundations of American power.

If you look at our fiscal deficit, our trade deficit, if you look out how we are grinding and wearing down our military, if you look at the quality of education and how over time we could well lose our competitive advantage, I am worried about the trends.

KING: Did you express that viewpoint when in the State Department?

HAASS: Sure. And you don't talk at the State Department usually in such general terms or grand terms, but when you talk about specific policies or specific threats. So I would argue the United States ought to negotiate with Iran and North Korea, not try to isolate them, not simply wait for these regimes to fall, which is not going to happen but instead we ought to look to integrate them. To essentially try to negotiate with them to get what it is we want, which is for them to give up nuclear weapons.

Also to be honest, I also had doubts and qualms about the Iraq War. I simply had concerns that it was going to be too expensive. And while their have been real benefits, obviously getting rid of Saddam was one, having elections was another, I was concerned and I still am concerned that the financial and human and military costs simply are too high.

KING: Did you leave on principle?

HAASS: No, I left more because where I was going which was the Council on Foreign Relations, which to run that really is, to use my word again, a great opportunity, but it is no secret that I have a fairly consistent set of differences with some of my colleagues.

KING: With Colin Powell, too?

HAASS: Well, Colin and I got along remarkably well. He, as you know, is a great man, and is a great patriot who served this country well. I won't speak for him, I will just say that I had concerns, at times, with the substance of foreign policy or the tone of it, but let me also say there is some important areas where I agree and I think this president did exactly the right thing on 9/11 and what we did in Afghanistan and I think we have made the world a tougher place for terrorists to succeed in.

I didn't write an anti administration books. A lot of my concerns stretch over the Clinton administration, as well.

KING: What happens, Richard, if we, and this book should be read by everybody, if we squander this opportunity.

HAASS: If we squander it, Larry, your children and mine will look at us and they will look back on history and they will wonder what in the world we were thinking. This is such a rare moment. Think about it. The 20th century, what was it? It was a century of three wars. Two world wars and then a cold war. The fact that we start this 21st century where war between, say, the United States, say, and China or Japan, Europe, India, Russia. War is simply not going to happen.

So the chance that we have to lock in this situation, we can actually build new types of cooperation, so we can really tackle the real problems of the day. Nuclear spread, global warming, protectionism, genocide, terrorism.

If we don't take advantage of this opportunity, if we don't leave this world a dramatically better place for our children, I think you and I, our entire generation, will have a lot to answer for.

KING: Michael Beschloss, our friend, the famed historian, said "Mr. Haass' fascinating book should be essential reading for every leader and citizen who understand what is now at stake for all of us."

Is it important that we be liked?

HAASS: I think anti-Americanism has a price in the short run. Countries won't help us. And over time I'm worried about the following possibility. Think about it. All these young men and women who are in universities around the world, I hate the idea that they are coming of age and they are forming their intellectual views and they are going to think the United States is the problem and that 20 or 25 years from now, when these young people are essentially prime ministers and foreign ministers, I don't like the fact that their outlook is anti-American.

So on one hand I wouldn't exaggerate that we need to be liked. We obviously want to be respected. If we are going to lead we obviously want to be followed by I don't think that we should dismiss the fact that we are actively disliked.

KING: Do you see a successful ending in Iraq?

HAASS: I don't know. It's too soon or unclear how history is going to play out. At one end of the spectrum, you have Iraq being a shining city on the hill. That's not going to happen. At the other end of the spectrum is chaos or anarchy. I don't think that's going to happen either. It is quite possible that Iraq is going to end up somewhere in between. Somewhat messy. Areas of Iraq that are positive. Areas where you still don't have security and at the end of the day I'm afraid that it's not going to be good enough to have warranted the enormous investment.

KING: Richard, would you come back? I would love to have to do more with you.

HAASS: Thanks very much. I would love to.

KING: Richard Haass. The book, "The Opportunity: America's Moment to Alter History's Course." As the critics have said, a very important work.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: It's Father's Day night and earlier this week I had the honor of being selected as one of the father's of the year by the National Father's Day Association and we had planned Monday night to have my brood on on Monday evening live. But, as you know, the Jackson trial ended that day so we taped on Monday evening for broadcast tonight in honor of Father's Day.

And let's introduce the family. First, the mother of two and stepmother of three, the lovely Shaun King. Larry King, Jr., erstwhile son. Chaia King, erstwhile daughter. Andy King, erstwhile son. Chance King is sitting on Andy King's lap and Cannon King is sitting on Larry King Jr.'s lap. We also had a photograph of Danny Southwick, who is Shawn's son and my stepson and he is not with us because he is at the University of Utah, he is a quarterback on the Utah football team this week.

So Shawn, I'll start with you. What was it like to come into the family of three growns.

SHAWN KING, LARRY KING'S WIFE: Come into this family and automatically become a grandmother?

KING: That's right.

SHAWN KING: It was thrilling. When they called me grandma - I loved it.

KING: You liked them right away, though, didn't you.

SHAWN KING: I love them. I love all of your kids. Well, they're family. They're family to me and I love them just as much as I love my own ids.

KING: What is it like, Chaia, being the daughter? You are the only daughter.

SHAWN KING: The only girl.

CHAIA KING, LARRY KING'S DAUGHTER: And I have to say ... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you are the only sister.

CHAIA KING: Actually in some ways that kind of makes me the luckiest because I get the most brothers.

KING: That's right you do. Step brothers, brothers, everything.

CHAIA KING: And the larger our family becomes the more blessed we are.

KING: You want more? We won't do that. I'm too old for that.

SHAWN KING: Time out.

KING: Andy is the oldest. What has it been like?

ANDY KING, LARRY KING'S SON: Well, it's been wonderful, new brothers and growing up I had a sister but no brothers and now I have ...

KING: Larry, Jr. ...

ANDY KING: Larry Jr. and Chance and Cannon arrived and that was like Chaia says, it's a blessing to have so many people in the family.

KING: Larry, Jr., is it funny, as you have children of your own, Andy has grown children, to have little brothers.

LARRY KING JR., LARRY KING'S SON: I think it's funny because when we watched them in the yard that time you see Ash (ph) or Max (ph) and Stella just running around with these guys. It's a ball just to look back and realize the generations that are going to carry forward. It's fun.

KING: What's it like for you, Chance? First to have two big brothers - three big brothers, you have Danny and you have Chaia as a sister.

CHANCE KING, LARRY KING'S SON: It's very fun and I like it and I like to play with my toys.

KING: You like to play with your toys? But you have fun having big brothers and sisters, right?

CHANCE KING: Yeah. I play with them.

KING: You play with them. You like New York?

CHANCE KING: Yes.

KING: And Cannon, what is it like to have big brothers and sisters.

CANNON KING, LARRY KING'S SON: Fun.

KING: Are they good to you. CANNON KING: Yes.

KING: Okay, you are going into kindergarten, right, this September and you ...

CANNON KING: I am in first grade.

KING: First grade.

CANNON KING: I have an Austrian accent, everyone.

KING: Explain the accent.

SHAWN KING: I have to explain the accent.

CANNON KING: I want to explain the accent. I learned it from Elizabeth Prantner (ph).

SHAWN KING: Who is our nanny.

KING: Elizabeth Prantner (ph) is the Austrian nanny and that is where he learned it and he got a plug in for her.

Seriously, though, I got rather well known and I am not saying this due to talent, I just got well-known and of course the reason is ...

CHANCE KING: And I learned everybody from lily (ph).

KING: And I got it from cameras and the fact that CNN is seen around the world, so I don't take much credit. So what it's like to be related to - the son of someone well-known?

ANDY KING: Oh, wow. It's always an adventure. Whenever we go out is always an adventure and I have had opportunities to meet people from all walks of life and being able to see so many things growing up.

SHAWN KING: So many wives.

KING: But you also had - was there a burden to being King?

ANDY KING: Sometimes yes and there is expectations of you to be able to help people meet you?

KING: The can you do me the favor bit?

ANDY KING: How do I get on your dad's show? You talk to the producers because they make those decisions.

KING: Andy used to be - when he was a young kid he worked with the Miami Dolphins. Andy was there. He worked as an equipment manager, he traveled on road trips with them, he played quarterback himself.

Larry, Jr., you have got a bigger burden, the name Larry, Jr. LARRY KING, JR.: Yeah, I think everyone expects me to wear suspenders.

KING: That's your burden?

LARRY KING, JR.: It's one of them.

KING: Isn't the name kind of good and bad?

LARRY KING, JR.: Yeah, it's got a good and bad. Certainly it gets people to - I think when they start a conversation with me they are probably a little bit talking to you and they are going to have to get to know me - they have to get to know me and then that's just kind of the difference.

KING: Chaia, what's it like for you, the girl?

CHAIA KING: I would say overall that I think fame affects a lot of people and it is impressive to me and to us being part of your family. Impressed by all that you have accomplished in your life but you have given so much to all of us privately and you personally are so unaffected by fame. You're still the same core person I believe you were when you grew up and I think that's pretty rare, so ...

ANDY KING: Absolutely.

KING: What is the most important thing I taught you?

CHAIA KING: Not to be bigoted, lack of prejudice, treating people equally.

KING: What's my gift to you - I'm not going to ask you. You may be knocked back in the next segment. What is my gift to you.

ANDY KING: Find something you love and persevere at it.

LARRY KING, JR.: You are giving that to me today. Running your foundation. CNN talked about the 20 years, I get to talk about the 17 years of saving lives, so you're offering me the opportunity to save lives in your name and help your running your foundation with my boss here.

KING: One (ph) is chairman.

LARRY KING, JR.: And that one day, 30, 40 years from now people are going to say, who saved my life, and it was Larry King, and these kids and everybody will be involved.

KING: When we come back in the next and final segment, Shawn King may be back with us and we will have some questions for the little boys and maybe they can interchange and maybe they can sing if they wish to. We will be right back with the Kings on Father's Day. Hope you have a great Father's Day. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: All right, Chance, what do you want to be when you grow up.

CHANCE KING: A Dodger.

KING: You are going to be a Dodger. You are going to play for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Do you want to get married.

CHANCE KING: Never.

KING: Never? Why never?

CHANCE KING: Because I don't like girls who I don't know.

KING: And that's right. Your wife you wouldn't know her so you don't know her and you don't want to get married.

CANNON KING: But you know Sophie.

CHANCE KING: I don't know Sophie.

KING: Wait a minute, what happened to you and Sophie, Cannon?

CANNON KING: They got crushed.

KING: They got crushed.

CANNON KING: Yeah.

KING: Did you break up with Sophie?

Why?

CANNON KING: Because somebody stole her.

CHANCE: No, because he copied me.

KING: You copied him?

CANNON KING: No.

SHAWN KING: You still love Sophie though.

KING: You still love her. Do you or don't you?

CHANCE KING: Can I show everybody my bracelet.

KING: Yeah. That's your bracelet.

CHANCE KING: This is my Mickey Mouse green bracelet.

KING: You got it today at the Disney Store. You guys - you've got roots in New York. Do you like coming to New York?

SHAWN KING: We were talking about this last night. It's not a city for a woman wearing heels and I learned that walking through the grids last night, hobbling through the grids. But I love the city, it's a great city. KING: I grew up here.

SHAWN KING: I know you grew up here.

KING: Be nice to it.

SHAWN KING: Therefore I like it. That's the right answer there.

KING: You're hanging by a thread.

Larry, you like it here?

LARRY KING, JR.: I like it here but I'm a Miami boy. That's what I - I guess people from New York, they move down to Miami, so ...

KING: Well you're Miami - Andy you like New York?

ANDY KING: Yes.

CHANCE KING: Can I sing?

KING: But you're a Miami boy, too.

ANDY KING: I do but it's a nice change of pace and it's such a happening time.

KING: Chance - Chaia, your next. Chaia, do you like New York?

CHAIA KING: I do. I like New York. It makes me feel closer to you and your whole background.

KING: You feel a sense that your daddy grew up in Brooklyn?

CHAIA KING: Very much so. The energy, the excitement, and also the ability of New Yorkers in whatever greatly direct way they are able to communicate a sense of humor that is also one of the best gifts that you've ever given to me.

KING: Yesterday we went to Coney Island, Chance, in the rollercoaster, right? On the Cyclone.

CHANCE KING: Yeah.

KING: Well, it's Monday, we're taping but you're going to go on Friday so we're saying Sunday ...

CHANCE KING: Can I sing, ask me do you like New York?

KING: Do you like New York.

CHANCE KING: Yes, it's one of my bestest things ...

KING: Now sing the song.

CHANCE KING: (singing)

KING: Remember when he was shy and he would come on here and say nothing?

You want to sing something Cannon? No? You used to be Mr. Showbusiness. Do your sexy song.

CHANCE KING: He wants to do a sexy song.

CANNON KING: No.

SHAWN KING: Cannon, this way.

KING: Don't you think I'm sexy. Do you think you're cute. Don't die on us. If you're cute do "New York, New York."

CHANCE KING: (singing)

CANNON KING: New York.

KING: Is it fun having little brothers?

ANDY KING: Absolutely.

KING: Is it fun for you? Well, Chaia, you're like their second mother.

CHAIA KING: I know.

KING: They love their Chaia.

CHAIA KING: Yes.

KING: We're coming to the end of the old trip on Father's Day. I want to thank you Cannon.

LARRY KING, JR.: Sing Happy Father's Day.

ALL: (singing)

KING: I love you all.

ANDY KING: Love you.

SHAWN KING: We love you.

KING: We bid you a fond goodnight and a very, Happy Father's Day. For Shawn, Larry, Jr., Andy, Chaia, Chance and Cannon and you'll like Shawn's record and look for her again at a show not here.

Good night.

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