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CNN Larry King Live

Interview With Beth Holloway Twitty; BTK Sentenced

Aired August 18, 2005 - 21:00   ET


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the day he dies, Nancy and all of his victims will be waiting with God and watching him as he burns in hell.

DENNIS RADER: A final apologies to the victims' families. There's no way that I can ever repay.

ANNOUNCER: Tonight, the families of the BTK killer's 10 victims let him have it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I were vindictive, I would wish you many long emotionally tortured years in your cage.

ANNOUNCER: And Dennis Rader, the confessed serial killer and self-described monster, finally cracks, crying in court before being sentenced to life behind bars. We'll have reaction from some of those family members joining us here live, tonight.

But first, 81 days after Natalee Holloway vanished, a key witness has resurfaced. He contradicts the suspect's alibi. We'll check in with Natalee's mom, Beth Holloway Twitty, in Aruba. It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.


CHRIS PIXLEY, GUEST HOST: Good evening. I'm Chris Pixley, in for Larry King. I want to thank Larry for inviting me to be here tonight. Truly extraordinary day in Wichita, Kansas, today with the sentencing of the BTK killer. We're going to be talking about that later in the show.

First off, though, we have a one-on-one interview with Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother. Beth, of course, in Aruba, continuing the search.

Beth, day 81, moving in on three months since Natalee's disappearance. I have to ask the obvious question, how are you holding up? How is the family holding up?

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Well, you know, each day it's hard. And some days are very difficult to get through. But, you know, we've just been -- just had an amazing amount of support from family and friends and people that we've never met in the U.S. and Mexico and Canada. And so it helps tremendously to get us through this. PIXLEY: As the volunteer search goes on, of course, the Aruban authorities conducting their own search, the FBI participating. What is the latest in terms of the reward, and what is the latest that you have been doing in the last 30 days or so?

TWITTY: Well, I think the main thing that we've been trying to do is to get the word out about the reward. And I think CNN has been doing a great job of covering that, the million dollars for her safe return, $250,000 for her whereabouts. And making available the 1-877- Natalee line. I've even had tourists approach me here on the island from Caracas, Venezuela, and knew all about the story and they know about the reward that's in place.

So I feel like the word is out there, and that's something else we still want to continue. We're also trying to produce a little Spanish speaking public service announcement that could run through the media and distribute that to some stations, international. And so we're just always trying to think of ways to get the word out.

PIXLEY: Beth, with all good that's been done, and of course with all the attention that's been brought to the story, you have nonetheless said that you don't think the official investigation has been heading in the right direction. Now, we know that you have been given the opportunity to look at the police reports, see some of the witness statements. When you see that kind of evidence, do you feel better or worse?

TWITTY: Well, there are a lot of things, of course, at the beginning that we were so -- just went so incredibly wrong. And, you know, what I get worried about now is, is hitting a wall. And you know, I think the gardener coming forward with his statement, I think that that is something that still is being, you know, verified to see if it has credibility to that.

And, I mean, to me, that's huge news coming forward. We've all known, as early as July 1st, that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, that the beach trip -- that never happened. You know, now, this will, of course, be having them scramble to come up with, you know, a new alibi.

PIXLEY: And we're going to get into that alibi in a little bit. But I want to ask you first, though, you mentioned some of the dead ends. With the dead ends that we have seen that have been so widely reported, the hair on the tape, the pond that's been drained, all the while you have to sit back wondering if your daughter is going to be found in the worst possible condition.

Now there is this new report, hundreds of miles away from Aruba, of human remains washing up in Venezuela. Do you ever allow yourself to think that this could be your daughter, or do you shut that out, Beth?

TWITTY: I don't allow it anymore at all. You know, we've been through so much, even before all of these things were being made known. There were -- as early as June 1 -- it was early as May 31 and June 1, we were running with sightings of Natalee all through Aruba in the most unimaginable places that you would be thinking of looking for your daughter.

So, you know, we had to really try to get a handle on, you know, all this information that we're getting from these sightings, because you just have -- there were too many ups and downs, too many highs and lows in the beginning and we just had to put the brakes on and really just wait until we had something definitive before we began to think it could be related to Natalee.

PIXLEY: You mentioned the Kalpoe brothers and, in particular, of course, it's been in the news lately that you have had words with Deepak. Is there something in particular that you have learned, something in particular that you want to say to the Kalpoes?

Or does it have more to do with the fact that their story continues to unfold now, of course, with the gardener's statement coming in and challenging what the brothers and what Joran Van Der Sloot has to say?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, we've known from day one that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are way deeply involved in this crime with Natalee. You know, proving that has been difficult with all the lies that they've continued to, you know, tell the authorities.

As far as what I would, you know -- as far as, you know, Deepak's reaction, you know, when I met him in the internet cafe, it was a completely different Deepak Kalpoe than I met the night of May 31. You know, at that point, he's thinking that he had a rock solid alibi, the Holiday Inn drop-off, and he held his head high, looked at me in the eye.

At the internet cafe, he couldn't lift his head until I'd been in there over an hour, close to an hour and a half before he -- you know, I was leaving at the time some of the footage was shot. He had been repeatedly having to ask him to hold your head up and look at me. He couldn't even do it, he couldn't even look at Natalee's mother. It's just this incredible guilt over him. He couldn't even deny any involvement.

PIXLEY: We're approaching, of course, September 4th. There is a chance on that date that Joran Van Der Sloot will come out of custody. Is there a contingency plan at this point in place? Will you be challenging that? Will you be doing what you can to keep Joran Van Der Sloot in custody, and are you doing anything on the ground to try to see, or through your attorneys, that the Kalpoe brothers are brought back in?

TWITTY: Well, of course, I'm just going to have to wait until September 4th. I'm just going to have to wait to experience it to see what we're going to do. Of course, you know, we're always thinking and putting different things into motion. But, you know, we've just got to wait and see how it's going to go before we can implement anything. And as far as Deepak and Satish, I'm not giving up that they will not be rearrested. I still think that that is a strong possibility.

PIXLEY: We'll be back with more of our discussion with Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother, from Aruba and New York in just a minute.


PIXLEY: Continuing our live, one-on-one conversation with Beth Holloway Twitty in Aruba. Beth, do you have any theories at this point? You sure have been on the ground for a long time. You've got the help of some great investigators. Do you have any theories as to what happened that night?

TWITTY: No. You know, we have -- there's so many different theories that we've come up with as our family, and also with, you know, the people that have been involved, the investigators and attorney. And, you know, we just go back to the two things that we know happened.

And we know that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot took Natalee from Carlos and Charlie's. And, you know, I've not made it a secret that Joran Van Der Sloot had confessed these sexual assaults and he committed against Natalee to us, her family.

Those are two of the facts that we know. And, you know, what happened from there, you know, there's where the answers lie with Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot.

PIXLEY: Beth, you're talking about facts that suggest that your daughter did encounter some foul play. You say that you don't allow yourself to think that way. I wonder which is worse in your mind, the idea that your daughter was the victim of a deadly crime, or the idea that you could spend the next 20 years wondering whether she's going to walk through the front door -- sort of Elizabeth Smart kind of story?

TWITTY: Well, I mean, those are both cruel to go through either one of them. So, you know, I just know that we have to have answers. And I know the answers are right here. I know the answers are right here on the island and, you know, we expect to get them.

PIXLEY: And so you go forward with this all-consuming search. Tell me about the members of your family. We've heard from everyone. Who is down in Aruba, who is back home? How do you sustain this level of activity and work for months?

TWITTY: It's the most incredible support that you've ever seen coming out of Natalee's community of Mountain Brook, Alabama. You know, something that even has been made possible -- I'm supposed to be back at work. I teach school at Mountain Brook City Schools. And the teachers have come forward and donated sick days to last me this entire fall. And, you know, they're just making things happen. And it's just incredible.

And then the amount of friends that we have that support us and are able to fly in and out and take time from their jobs. We all have jobs and lives there and children there. And everybody's just been making sacrifices to make this work.

PIXLEY: Beth, plan A, obviously, has been to get as much help from as many sources as possible. Do you feel, at any point in time, that the participation of all of these different groups, where it's the volunteer groups, the Aruban officials, the FBI, that people can get in each other's way? Or do you feel that the attention that has been brought to the case and the number of people who are looking for Natalee is a positive?

TWITTY: Oh, I think that number of people that have been involved are -- it's definitely a positive. We've been so fortunate to have these groups of individuals that have come in. I mean, from Equusearch to -- gosh, I mean, they just did an incredible job of combing this island.

It's a very unforgiving terrain. It's not easy. It's not easy at all. And we've just, you know -- investigators have come in and, of course, anything that anyone has brought to the table has been helpful.

PIXLEY: Beth, this is also hard to talk about. We appreciate you being with us tonight. We're going to be talking with your brother and with a panel some more. Everyone, stay with us. LARRY KING LIVE will return in a minute.


PIXLEY: We're back, talking about the Natalee Holloway disappearance. With us, the full panel now. In Houston, Paul Reynolds, Natalee Holloway's uncle. In Birmingham, Alabama, Anastasiya Bolton, reporter for TV station WBMA in Natalee Holloway's home state. In Atlanta, T.J. Ward, private investigator. He's been working on the case for some time now. In Orlando, Vinda De Sousa, the Holloway family attorney. And here in New York, Henry Lee, famed forensic pathologist, criminologist, here to talk to us a little bit more about the details of the case.

We go first, to Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasia, a week's worth of news, some hearings this week, bring us up to speed.

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, REPORTER, WBMA-TV: Chris, well first of all, on Monday, the gardener, the key witness in this case, gave sworn testimony to the judge. The reason why this is important, because previously, the gardener gave testimony that he saw the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot in the car near the racket club at 2:30 in the morning, the night Natalee Holloway disappeared.

The judge asked the witness to be brought back again and give a sworn statement again. And if that statement were to be the same, he potentially could have ordered the Kalpoe brothers to be rearrested, that was the buzz earlier in the week. Now, the re-arrest did not happen, although the gardener did give the same statement, he stands by his story that he saw the brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot.

Now, I've spoken to one of the attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers today. He tells me he does not expect his client to be rearrested. That's what he told me today. He says that the records do not lie in terms of phone and internet records, because he maintains that the Kalpoe brothers were cruising the internet and chatting on the internet way after 2:30 in the morning, so they could not have been on the beach near the racket club.

Also, over the weekend, an arm was found on the beaches of Venezuela. The investigators say they do not think that the arm could belong to Natalee Holloway because of the way the tides go. However, the Venezuelan authorities at some point are going to look into this and test the arm.

Right now, they're busy with a plane crash that happened earlier in the week, as you very well know. So they're going to look at the arm a little later. Joran was in court with attorneys yesterday. His attorneys are contesting that the prosecution in this case is not giving them full access to all the paperwork in this investigation. So the judge is supposed to make that decision on Monday.

And last but not least, Joran has not been interrogated for at least a week since last Thursday, even though the judge ruled that the interrogators will still be able to question Joran. Why he wasn't questioned, we do not know -- Chris?

PIXLEY: Thanks, Anastasiya.

Vinda De Sousa, you're the Holloway family attorney. I want to ask you very quickly, the viewers now have heard about this Colombian nationalist gardener, an illegal alien in Aruba, who is obviously becoming an important witness.

But as an illegal alien, who has now testified and given sworn testimony, do you have a fear that he will be turned over to immigration and deported, as opposed to being kept in the country? And is there any basis for keeping him in Aruba?

VINDA DE SOUSA, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, of course, the Aruban authorities are entitled to turn him over to the immigration authorities since he's an illegal alien. He has provided a sworn statement. So basically, his task, if I may call it that, in this case is done. I see no reason for him to be held in custody for this case any longer. It's probable that the authorities will turn him over, yes.

PIXLEY: And will you oppose, or will the family oppose, his deportation in any way? Is there any basis for doing that, even?

DE SOUSA: No, there is no basis for the family to oppose, no legal basis. Our criminal procedures code does not allow for the family, in this case, having joined as a victimized party to oppose a deportation, because the immigration laws in Aruba are very clear. If you're an illegal immigrant, you can be deported.

PIXLEY: Vinda, can you explain what happened at this hearing on Monday? I understand that attorneys for all of the parties, not just the prosecution, were allowed to cross-examine and question the gardener on his statement. What was going on there, and is this testimony, as you said, that can be used in the future?

DE SOUSA: Definitely. That's why he was heard in front of the judge of instruction. Because by hearing him in front of the judge of instruction, the parties, both the defense and the prosecution, are allowed to cross-examine him. And the judge himself asks the witness questions. And that will be a put in a sworn affidavit and that is used as evidence in the trial.

PIXLEY: Do you know anything, Vinda, finally about this witness's background? Do you have any expectation that if he is deported and sent back to Colombia, that you will be able to keep tabs on him?

DE SOUSA: I don't think so. If he's deported and sent back to Colombia, I don't think they will be able to keep tabs on him. But as I said before, I don't think it's necessary for them to keep tabs on him anymore, because he has given a statement in front of the judge of instruction with the opportunity for cross-examination by both parties, being the prosecution and the defense. So his task as a witness in this is done.

PIXLEY: OK. I want to go to Henry Lee. Henry, I asked this question of Beth Holloway Twitty. Obviously, when you have the Aruban authorities, the FBI, local volunteers, canine volunteers, all going about their individual investigations, does there come a point in time, without a single lead or without some coordination that this becomes a detriment, that it actually undermines the investigation? Do you have any fear when you know there're all these disparate parties searching this small island?

HENRY LEE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, Chris, you're absolutely right, because so many different agencies are involved, lack of coordination. This case become a cold case now. And very little scientific evidence. Make this case really need some organization, coordination, somebody has to be in charge, reevaluate the witness testimony, look at the timeline analysis.

We have a witness say, "That night I saw two of them." They have a piece of evidence they were surfing the Internet. And we have to look at computer evidence on the hard disk, which, in fact, which we can extract the information on.

Of course, over the weekend, the arm. And it should be easy to tell that it's a male or female, what the possible age and nationality. And this can get a set of fingerprints. You have hand attached to it and try, of course, later for DNA analysis.

PIXLEY: That brings up another question, too. Are we going too far afield in this investigation when we start looking at evidence that's washing up hundreds of miles away, where reportedly, the Aruban tides don't even reach? Is this something that you think needs to be done in this case, or are we chasing the leads because they're interesting to the media?

LEE: Well, we should at least turn over the stone. Don't leave any stone unturned. To look at arm, in two second we can tell you that's consistent with the victim or not. And, of course, I have a fingerprint and DNA. Three or four days later, we can give you a DNA profile to see if that matches or not. At least we can eliminate that instead of keep waiting. PIXLEY: Let me go for a moment to T.J Ward. T.J., private investigator on the ground, do you put any stock in this latest report that Natalee Holloway may actually have been approached by someone from the adult film industry masquerading as a legitimate modeling agent, somebody that might have been able to lure her away? Is there any basis for putting stock in that new story?

T.J. WARD, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR WORKING ON HOLLOWAY CASE: At this point in time, I don't think so. I think the key players, as Beth said, are the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot. One person we are leaving out of the picture here --, I do believe from information that we have found and information we're still receiving, I believe Paul Van Der Sloot is a piece of this puzzle also. And I think it needs to be looked at.

And he is on the back burner and he was a suspect at one time, and still is by the Aruban authorities and the FBI, and was in custody. But I don't think we need to leave him out because I believe he is a part of this puzzle that goes together. And I believe the family also believes that dearheartedly also.

PIXLEY: Let me ask Paul about that, then. Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle, Beth Holloway Twitty's brother. Paul, before we leave this question, as outrageous as this new report may seem, do you, knowing your niece the way you do, knowing, of course, that she did go off with a stranger in Joran Van Der Sloot -- that obviously has been confirmed. Do you put any stock in the idea that she may have been lured away by someone who is really not on the radar right now, someone like this talent agent?

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Absolutely not. You know, that just wouldn't happen. It's almost a ridiculous story. You know, we know that Natalee did go with Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. Her friends said that she thought it was a taxi. They were lined up there at Carlos and Charlie's, so she very well may have been tricked into getting in the car.

But we know those are the three individuals that know what happened. We believe the father also knows because according to the boys' statements, the father was helping them create an alibi. They're all involved, they all know what happened. We don't know where she is, but that's why we keep looking.

PIXLEY: And Paul, you're also searching, obviously, and have been searching with large groups at the local landfill. Tell me how that's going and tell me what assistance you've received from the Aruban authorities. Are you satisfied with the assistance that you're getting from them?

REYNOLDS: Well, Equusearch was doing the first landfill search. They spent at least a solid weekend there, a little more than that. A tough job, you know, trying to get some equipment in there. Extreme hardship under the conditions of the landfill. And, you know, but they were dedicated. They're in there looking hard with the dogs in there and trying to find something. This is based on a witness report. PIXLEY: Thanks, Paul.

We'll continue with LARRY KING LIVE in just a moment.


PIXLEY: Back with our panel, talking about the Natalee Holloway case. We now have Michael Cardoza joining us from California. I want to go straight out to Michael.

This is going to pain you, Michael, but I can think of several well known cases where you have represented the bad guy, the famous dog-mauling case being just one of them. What do you do as a defense attorney and how far is too far, for example, for counsel for the van der Sloots, when you are representing a maligned and almost publicly hated defendant?

MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I'll tell you what, Chris, you put yourself in a difficult situation as a lawyer. A lot of people criticize you, take shots at you, but that is our job. That's what we do. and it does keep the system in balance, because God knows there are out there overzealous prosecutors. I did that job for 15 years. I've seen them out there. I'm on the other side now. I've seen them, but what you do is, you represent your client within the parameters of the law.

Now, keep in mind, it's really interesting what's going on down there in Aruba, because here in the United States, until charges are filed, the defense attorneys are aren't involved. And down in Aruba, what are they doing? They're walking into the court and they're complaining about not getting access to evidence.

Remember, here in the States, we, as defense attorneys, get no access to anything, as I say, until charges are filed. But yet, what do they get to do? They get to go down there, cross-examine people like the witness that they brought in the other day that saw, allegedly, van der Sloot at about 2:30 in the morning.

That's really different than our laws here. I'd love to have it here. I'd love to get at some of the prosecution witnesses before they file their cases. But what you do, you do it fairly and you do it within the parameters of the law.

PIXLEY: Of course here in the states, and Michael, you've experienced this all too -- many times, we have the opportunity, as defense counsel, to go out and talk to the press.

Now, there are those times there the court, when we're in full swing, -- and you're right, when there is a defendant and someone has been charged, that we're not able to talk. But in this case, you've got Joran van der Sloot's counsel. You've got counsel for the Kalpoes very mum, not willing to talk to the press.

If you are representing Joran van der Sloot, does the public's need to know get trumped by your desire to keep your client from talking at all or do you follow the old American model and get out there and talk?

CARDOZA: Well, I'll tell you what, the reason that defense attorneys get out there and talk -- remember we're different. We have the right to a jury trial here. So, what happens is, when attorneys get on the air, they're putting out to possible jurors what's going on in the case.

Because what's normally reported certainly, is pro-prosecution. So what defense attorneys try and do is balance that out. Down in Aruba, what do you have? You have court trials. You don't have jury trials -- the right to a jury trial. So, you really don't have that compelling need to get out there and talk to hopefully get the jurors and say, at least come in to the courthouse fair and balanced and don't believe everything you're reading about in the press.

I mean, this is a classic case. Most people have convicted Joran in this case. Is he guilty? We really won't know until, if they charge, number one and if they put the evidence on and it shows beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the same burden that we have here in the states.

So, until they put it on, we don't know what they have. Everybody's speculating about what the evidence is. Nobody knows. So, the needs are different.

PIXLEY: And of course, the other silent battle that's going on right now, between the FBI and Aruban officials. We hear bits and pieces about it. I want to go to Vinda De Sousa. Vinda, the FBI, just this Monday, was told by a judge that they will be allowed to continue to receive information from the Aruban authorities.

Of course, defense counsel for Joran van der Sloot had fought against that. They wanted to allow the -- wanted to get the FBI essentially out of the investigation. What is the general mood between these two factions, the FBI and the Aruban authorities and is there cooperation at all at this point or has it broken down?

DE SOUSA: Well, no. The FBI has been involved in this case from day one. They have provided the Aruban investigative authorities in this case with technical and tactical assistance. They have sat in the interrogations, although they have not interrogated themselves, because as you know, they don't have jurisdiction.

But they have been cooperating with the Aruban investigative authorities in this case and this cooperation only extended -- was extended by the fact that they were allowed -- they were given the interrogation material and tapes to be analyzed by their behavioral experts. So, the cooperation is, as I understand, very good and it's still ongoing.

PIXLEY: I want to change gears a minute and go back to you, Henry. We were talking a minute ago with Paul Reynolds, Natalee's uncle, about the investigation of this landfill. This is something that you either do right or do wrong. How do you go about it from the start and is there a point in time where you say, "enough is enough, we're done?" LEE: Well, when we search a landfill, first thing we do is an intelligence study. We try to find out which pile was deposited in what date. Then we find something: letters, newspapers to confirm that pile in fact, is that week.

Then we focus our energy. We usually bring in some (inaudible) and just slowly, manually, instead of digging, we just remove that big pile from one location to another location and sift through. And this way, you a systematic way to remove the garbage. Anything, little tiny piece of physical evidence, you can recover.

This case, so far what I heard, just with the statement, one person says that, another person denies and really, difficult. To solve a case, as you know, Chris, you need physical evidence, a crime scene, witness statement and a little bit of luck.

This case, we don't have a crime scene. We don't have a shred of physical evidence. We don't have luck and I would suggest, if I -- my case, I would go back, see anything on their car or the clothing seized. Look at the choice evidence, see anything that can verify or refute their statement.

PIXLEY: Henry, we're going to go to break. Up next, folks, Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. We've got some sound today from a day in court, a day of sentencing. One that you won't want to miss. Listen to this.


DENNIS RADER, CONVICTED BTK KILLER: They trusted me that I was going to tie them up, take their money and leave. And then I killed them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can think of nothing but savoring the bittersweet taste of revenge as justice is served upon on this social sewage here before us today. Now that it has arrived, surprisingly, I realize that this day is not just about avenging past crimes. Sit hearing before us is a depraved predator, a rabid animal that has murdered people, poisoned countless lives and terrorized this community for thirty years , all the while relishing every minute of it.




MONTOYA: Just recently I realized I could not remember my mother's voice. That was a painful discovery, but as I put my thoughts on paper, it comes to me. I am my mother's voice and I know we've been heard.


PIXLEY: We continue from New York and from Wichita, Kansas, that was Carmen Otero Montoya. Carmen is with us. Carmen, I want to go to you first. In what has to be one of the strangest moments in sentencing history, Dennis Rader actually compared himself today to the families and his victims, including your family. I hesitate to ask, but how does that make you feel?

MONTOYA: Well, there's no comparison. It was a joke.

PIXLEY: No comparison between your family and Dennis Rader, I take it?

MONTOYA: Between any of the families and Dennis Rader.

PIXLEY: What message did you want to get across to Dennis today, as you addressed him? You had the choice, whether or not you wanted to address him. You did; made a strong statement. What was your purpose?

MONTOYA: Just to let him know that the people that he killed were wonderful people. They were people that we all love and miss and whether he got that or not, you know, that's his deal. I just know we've been heard.

PIXLEY: Carmen, you're flanked there by your brother, Charlie, and your other brother, Danny Otero. I want to go to Danny first. Danny, I know it has to be a relief that Dennis Rader has been captured. There certainly has to be some vindication, but I wonder if over the course of the past 12 months, has this brought up so many old memories that it's possibly more painful than it would have been if you'd been allowed to go on with your life and the BTK killer had never been found?

D. OTERO: Definitely, it has brought back a lot of things; a lot of memories; thoughts that I had buried for a long time, for probably a good 30 years. But now, it's time to put all this behind us. I mean, this is the final chapter. This is the culmination of a long investigation and a long waiting period to see that justice was done and I'm satisfied.

PIXLEY: I want to ask your brother, Charlie: Charlie, when you wake up tomorrow and you go about your day, are you satisfied knowing that Dennis Rader is behind bars, that he's been sentenced consecutively, life sentences, that the earliest he could get out is 40 years from now and as a 60-year-old, there's very little chance that he will ever see the outside of a prison? Is that enough for you?

C. OTERO: Well, I probably won't be waking up tomorrow, because I'm going to be dancing all night. It's a wonderful thing that's happened. The sentence given to him was exactly what we hoped for. We got it. He got it and he's going get it.

PIXLEY: So, you're willing to go through all the memories and the pain knowing that there's finally some closure to this story, an end to it and they found the killer?

C. OTERO: I've been living the memories and the pain all my life, since the day it happened. Now, whether or not I live with those memories haunting me, is another story, but I know that Dennis Rader's going start having his own haunts and nightmares while he serves his time in the penal institution he's headed for tonight.

PIXLEY: Charlie, I wonder, over the many years that the BTK killer was at large, did you have an opportunity to get to know any of these families or was today really the first time you wee meting the people that had been through the same thing you had?

C. OTERO: Well, I really hadn't met any of the other families or knew about any of the other families until the late '90s and we have built a wonderful camaraderie amongst us in a club that is horrible to get into, yet it is a group of people who have come together and we supported each other. We've given each other hope in many different ways and support and there they're a wonderful group of people. Proud to have met them and known them.

PIXLEY: I want to go now to Larry Hatteberg. Larry, you are with -- the anchor, I should say, for KAKE TV in Wichita, Kansas. You have, of course, been covering this story for many, many years. I wonder, without spending too much time focusing on Dennis Rader, I'd like to look at the victim's families for a second. How many of those families were in the courtroom today, roughly what numbers and how many family members actually addressed Dennis Rader?

HATTEBERG: There were about 12 members, I believe, who actually addressed Dennis Rader in the courtroom today and most of the family members who could be here, were in the courtroom today. As well, they all wanted to be. This was the final day. You know, 30 years ago, Wichita lost its innocence and finally, today, after 30 years, Dennis Rader lost control and the families got control. And today was the day for the families.

PIXLEY: We'll continue from New York and Wichita, Kansas, after this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want him to suffer as much as he made his victims suffer. But then, when I think about that and his sick perverted way, he'd probably find that as some kind of pleasure or reward. This man needs to be thrown in a deep, dark hole and left to rot.




RADER: Probably the most damaging to me was the pornography. They just played pornography of what I had drew, but I didn't see where they had a lot of pornography, but they brought two pictures out. The family will know that I didn't own a camper. I had a pickup with a camper top, but it didn't have any shelves in it. So, basically the evidence was totally tainted. They either picked up a picture from somewhere else or inserted it or didn't realize it. That might have been relative, I'm not sure, but I would think if they'd had more pornography, they would have showed it.


PIXLEY: We're back talking about the final chapter in the 30- year killing spree of BTK killer, Dennis Rader. I'm going back out to Larry Hatteberg in Wichita. Larry, we've talked about the victims' families today -- the victims' families in the courtroom. Was Dennis Rader's family in the courtroom?

HATTEBERG: Dennis Rader's family was not in the courtroom today. We understand that his brother may have been in the courtroom yesterday, but there was no member of his family in the courtroom today. We have not talked to his wife or his children since this whole ordeal began.

PIXLEY: And being something of an expert -- you've had direct communications over the years with the BTK killer. You, of course, followed the story as closely as anyone. How did Dennis Rader maintain a family relationship, children, member of a church -- do all of these things under the noses of his family, presumably? How did he hold that all together?

HATTEBERG: He was an actor and his family were simply props in this grand play. He had to have the family. He had to have the job. He had to have the look of normalcy in order to be the killing machine that he was. If he didn't look normal, then he could not do the other things that he really wanted to do and that was to kill people.

So, he had to have this facade that he was a normal human being and that's really for Witchans, the scariest thing about Dennis Rader, because we expect a serial killer to look like a monster. Dennis Rader, in most cases, looked like the guy next door and you never suspect the guy next door.

PIXLEY: And then -- apparently, as part of that act, were the tears that we see him wiping away today. Is it your belief that that is just the continuation of this life on stage that Dennis Rader has been leading?

HATTEBERG: I think so. When I talked to Dennis Rader about four-and a-half weeks ago in a face-to-face conversation, he said that on this day, bring a lot of Kleenex.

Now, he didn't indicate whether I was supposed to bring the Kleenex or whether we were supposed to get Kleenex for him, but he projected the fact that it would be an emotional day for him and he was going to spend a lot of time preparing his final statement. And it was apparent as he prepared that final statement, that he needed to have spent a lot more time on it, because it was very rambling and as everybody knows by now, nearly incohent.

PIXLEY: Of course today, he said, among many other things, that he still believes that he's a Christian. He looks for redemption. In your conversations with Dennis Rader, do you get a sense that he is a Christian or is this, again, part of the act?

HETTEBERG: I think it's part of the act. I think it's part of the facade. What else is he going to say? I think that's the only thing that he could say. But I think all of the family members will understand that -- and anyone who is a real Christian will understand that this man is anything but. He is simply a tool of the devil.

PIXLEY: Everyone, you're watching LARRY KING LIVE. We'll continue after this...


RADER: Those really -- those are the only really complaints. Except for Power Point. I don't -- and again, I don't want to pick on the law enforcement, they've done a very good job, but I do want to clarify a few things, just for the records, because this is basically my final say.

The first one: There was two actors that were brought out, John Wayne and James Bond. The action of that with Kevin was the shooting, not because I stood up and shot him. It's because when I was working with the police, that was a -- what I call a quick draw, just like that. That's what I called the "John Wayne Shot."




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been almost 19 years now that I brother and I had the most important woman in our lives taken from us. My brother and I had to go through so many important moments in our lives without her. Every day is a struggle to get through without her.


PIXLEY: I want to go straight back out to Carmen Otero Montoya. Carmen, you took the opportunity today, again, to speak out, to talk directly to Dennis Rader. This is a man, of course, who's been described as an extremely bold criminal and yet, you told him today that he's a coward. What did you mean by that?

MONTOYA: Well, the fact that he took a gun to take control of a little girl and a little boy. If that's not a occurred, then I don't know what you call a coward.

PIXLEY: We also know, of course, Carmen, that this was a man who took many trophies from his victims, who kept scrapbooks, who did quite a bit to document his killings. Will you be doing the same with Dennis Rader now, following his life and his story or are you going to be putting this man behind you in the same way that the rest of us of putting him behind us as he goes off to prison?

MONTOYA: I put Rader behind me a long time ago. The only reason why he's been in my life now, is because of them finally catching up to him. When I leave here, Wichita, it all stays here. I go home to my family. My husband Leonard and my son Mario and my daughters Andrea and Leah (ph), my daughter-in-law, Mikey (ph) and all my grandkids Keila (ph), Judiah(ph), Cage(ph) and Sania(ph)and my daughter Leah(ph) and her husband Ryan(ph). And I leave this all here.

PIXLEY: Danny, what about you?

D. OTERO: Well, this, like she says, it just needs to stay here. I got a great life, too: Wife, kids, grandkids. I made my statement to Dennis Rader by walking out the door when he got up to speak.

PIXLEY: And Danny, it's been widely documented the fact that the death penalty wasn't instituted in Kansas until after Dennis Rader's final murder. That being one of the reason that he was not eligible for the death penalty. If he had been, is that what you would have wanted for him?

D. OTERO: Even the death penalty would have been too good. This man needs to be put down like an animal. As he so well put it himself, he was describing the way he mercilessly killed his victims, but the death penalty should have been the least. But we have to make due with what we were given and I'm satisfied.

PIXLEY: And of course, briefly, with Carmen and with Danny, the family attorney Peter Gorski. Peter, where does the family go now?

GORSKI: Well, they return to their lives, as they said. It's a -- you know, it's an amazing story. It was a family of seven and now, it's a family of three and they've expressed how this is in a way, kind of brought them back together again, but the attorney and my partner...

PIXLEY: Thank you, Peter. We've got to go. Aaron Brown and "NEWSNIGHT" are up next. Thank you, everyone.