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CNN Larry King Live

Interview with Dr. Phil McGraw

Aired December 06, 2005 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Dr. Phil McGraw with the real deal on his show's controversial investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance. Does he believe she is still alive? And, of course, we will take your calls and solve your problems, as only he can. Dr. Phil has got a great new book out.
And he's with us for the hour next on LARRY KING LIVE.

It's always great to welcome Dr. Phil to LARRY KING LIVE, with one promotional allowed here. My wife, Shawn, is his guest next Tuesday, one week from today, on his show. She was on -- I saw a tape of it today. It was really terrific. And I was very proud.

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL": Boy, she did great. You married way over your head.


KING: Way.

Dr. Phil McGraw's new book -- we will get to it in a little while -- is "Love Smart: Find the One You Want, Fix the One You Got," a great title. We will be talking a lot about that book as we go into the hour. And we will be taking your calls.

But, first, how did you get into this Natalee Holloway thing? You paid a polygrapher, an interviewer to go -- give me the story.

MCGRAW: Well, we have been working with Beth Twitty, who is a delightful and devoted mother that's doing what any mom would do, in -- in trying to find her daughter.

We have been working with her to help in that search, whether we find her alive or whether we find her deceased. What we want to do is find her, and that's what the focus needs to be.

KING: And what would your program -- why is your program involved?

MCGRAW: Well, she's a mom.

And so many of our viewers' hearts have gone out to her and other moms that have lost their kids and have just been so up against the -- the helplessness of not being able to keep it fresh, keep it in the headlines, keep people thinking about it and talking about it.

Let's face it. I mean, the next story comes up, the next big crisis comes up in the world or in America, and it is awfully easy to get lost in the shuffle. And what she has asked us to do and what we have been making an -- an earnest attempt to do is, keep this in people's mind, keep the pressure on, keep the ball moving forward in trying to find this young woman, alive or dead.

KING: Now, how did you get involved in this controversy over thinking she's alive or a -- or a polygraph...

MCGRAW: Well...

KING: Or...

MCGRAW: You know, we -- we have not...

KING: Because, last night, I will tell you, Mark Geragos, the attorney, criticized you or any other show getting involved on its own into the investigation of a criminal matter.

MCGRAW: Well, I think that anyone that goes out just on their own, pecking around, could get in the way.

What we have done is worked every step of the way hand in hand with the FBI. Everything we have done, we talked to the FBI about. Every bit of information we get, we give to the FBI. Anything we have contemplated doing, we speak with the FBI field agents. Would this help? Would this hurt? Is this going to add to or take away from? We're not out there just roaming around, seeing if we can stir something up. We're cooperating with everybody that's involved in the case, the investigators that she's had from the beginning, the FBI office in Miami.

And there have been some things that we have contemplated that they said, I don't think that would be the best idea. So, we have not done it. We're not out there on our own. We're working very closely with everybody involved.

KING: Have you been there?

MCGRAW: I have not been to Aruba.

KING: Do you think it's solvable?

MCGRAW: Well, I think this is solvable.

I -- I don't know whether she's alive or whether she's dead. What I know is, we -- at this time, we don't have a lot of physical evidence that I have been told about of the crime. We certainly haven't found the body. We don't have any witnesses to a murder. So, I don't know. I think what we have to do is have a two-pronged investigation.

We have to look for her alive and we have to look for her body. I mean, that's the only responsible thing to do, is look for her anywhere and everywhere. And that's all I have ever said that we should do.

KING: You're a trained psychologist.

What -- what created the worldwide interest in this case?

MCGRAW: Well...

KING: One girl missing?

MCGRAW: But for the grace of God go every parent.

I mean, you send your child on a -- on a senior trip, and they're supervised and chaperoned, a responsible young woman with a responsible history, and she doesn't come back. I mean, every time our children go out -- and, Larry, your boys are six-and-a-half and five-and-a-half, but when they get old enough to go out on their own...

KING: Yes.

MCGRAW: ... every time they do and you hear a siren, it will trigger your heartbeat. Every time the phone rings when they're out somewhere, your heart will jump a little bit.

And I think every parent in America, every parent in the world has -- has watched this unfold. And it's not just about Natalee Holloway. It's about a lot of missing children and missing girls. And I think anything we can do to keep the awareness hot on that -- but let me be very clear. I don't know if she's alive. I don't know if she's dead.

What I know is, we want to stay focused, have a two-prong investigation looking for her body and for her, and, hopefully, we will come up with something.

KING: We will get to the book.

I want to ask you about Oprah going on "Letterman" and ending this supposed feud you were having with her by denying it. Who started that story?

MCGRAW: You mean, the feud he was having with her.

KING: He was having with her.

MCGRAW: You said "the feud you were having with her."

I don't have a feud with her, and neither does David, actually.


MCGRAW: You know, I don't know.

KING: But there was always rumors.

MCGRAW: Of course there are rumors. But I don't think he and she have ever had a feud. I have known Oprah for a long, long time and -- what, nine, 10 years, whatever the math is. And I have never heard her say a word about a feud with David Letterman. And I -- and, you know, he's teased about it and joked about it. And I don't know. Sometimes, it just kind of takes on a life of its own and starts getting talked about and talked about.

But I -- I thought it was great that she went on. I thought it was -- he did exactly what I thought he would do.

KING: Classy.

MCGRAW: He treated her as an invited guest in his own home.

And, you know, he teased her some, and she teased him back. But I thought he was very gracious. And I thought it was great to see him do it.

KING: You are on again on the 16th.

MCGRAW: On "David Letterman"?


KING: Yes.


KING: And he used to poke a lot of fun at you.

MCGRAW: Used to?


KING: Still does, right?

MCGRAW: He still does, of course.

KING: Why do you go?

MCGRAW: You know, I think this.

David Letterman's a comedian. And he's having fun. I have never thought anything he has done about me has been mean-spirited at all. I think he's goofing on me. And, you know, I do serious work and I'm pretty serious most of the time. But I think it's good for -- to be goofed on sometimes. I don't think it's a bad thing. I think a lot of what he does about me is hilarious.

He called me the other night a bonehead. I don't know. It's always something.


MCGRAW: But I get him back, as you know. So, it's a two-way street.

KING: All right, the new book, "Love Smart: Find the One You Want, Fix the One You Got,"

Before we get to fixing the one you got, which is your business...

MCGRAW: Right.

KING: ... you help someone find the one they need?


Look, dating is the most inefficient, haphazard, hit-and-miss sort of thing that you could ever do, particularly...


KING: It ain't a science, is it?


I mean, we -- we don't know how to go about doing this. And I can't tell you how many thousands and thousands of letters I get over the years from men and women who say, all the good ones are gone. I can't meet anybody. All the guys are commitment-phobic. You know, I -- I don't know how to meet girls.

It is just, everybody is having such a hard time doing this. And what happens is, they get out there. They're like ships passing in the night.

So, I said, look, why don't we sit down and deal with the science? And we had a lot of fun with this. This is a fun book. It's written a lot tongue in cheek. It's written with a lot of humor, but also a lot of meat about how to meet somebody and how to put your best foot forward. And if what you want is to find somebody and get married, this book's going to tell you how to get the fish in the boat.

It is going to tell you how to get him hooked and get the fish in the boat, if that's what you want to do.

KING: When you say put the best foot forward, is it often in dating a fake foot, so that, when the second foot arrives, we discover a different person?

MCGRAW: The second foot? We call that bait and switch, right?

KING: Yes.

MCGRAW: It's like, I'm going to be this Mr. Wonderful until I get the papers filled out. And, then, all of a sudden...

KING: Gotcha.

MCGRAW: ... don't want to go anywhere, don't want to have sex, don't want to shave, don't want to do their hair, whatever. Sometimes, you do get that. You get some of what I call bait and switch. And that's the worst thing in the world you can do. There's a big difference between being able to get somebody to say "I do" and being able to say "I am happily married." You don't want to just walk the aisle. What you want to do is be happily married one year, five years, 10 years, 20 years down the road.

KING: Does that have to be the purpose of dating? You don't have to want to get married?

MCGRAW: Of course not.

And let me be very clear. I do not believe, even remotely, that you have to have a partner in your life in order to be whole, in order to be complete, in order to be fulfilled. You just don't have to. But if that's what you want, let's do it efficiently.

I mean, I -- I have got a chapter in the book called "Infrared Dating." And -- because, look, when people go out and date, they talk about what? What's your sign? You know, what did you -- what did you major in? Where did you go to school? Where did you live? What is this, a geography lesson? You don't care about that stuff.

What you want to know right up front is, what do you care about? What do you value? Would you be interested in getting married? How do you feel about kids? Do -- do you come from a happy marriage? I mean, what are your values? What are your beliefs? Those are the things you want to know.

And I'm not saying you should interrogate somebody the minute you meet them, just like, hi, my name is Phil; how do you feel about marriage? I mean, that -- you know, that would never work with a guy. You might as well try to baptize a cat than get a guy to...


MCGRAW: ... to go for that the first night you're out.

But there are things that you can ask. And there are effective ways for to you present yourself so you will not be forgotten.

KING: We will be right back with Dr. Phil. We will be, of course, taking your calls, as we always do.

The new book, it's everywhere, "Love Smart: Find the One You Want, Fix the One You Got."

Don't go away.


OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": This is so interesting. We're having a real conversation. I didn't expect that.


DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: Well, what do you mean? What did you think?

WINFREY: No. I didn't know what you were going to do. I thought. I didn't know what you were going to...


LETTERMAN: Well, it's not like when we have that bonehead Dr. Phil on.


WINFREY: And you don't mean that.


WINFREY: You don't mean that. I think you and Phil have great chemistry.

LETTERMAN: He's a lovely man.




KING: As I was telling -- telling Dr. Phil during the break, I think, of his many books, this is his best cover and back of the cover I have seen, "Love Smart" -- the cover designed by his wife -- "Find the One You Want, Fix the One You Got."

I'm looking at some of the chapter titles. "Single. There Are No Accidents."

What do you mean?

MCGRAW: Well, really, we create our own results life, right? And if you're single...

KING: You made your bed. Lie in it.

MCGRAW: Exactly.

And if you're single and you have been that way for, like, one year, two years, five years, 10 years, when you don't want to be, then you have got to change what you're doing. There's no accident. You're single, you're either -- like, you have got desperation that they can smell on you like a skunk, or you are aloof, or you get them before they get me, like, you know, he's not going to like me, so I am going to push back on him.

KING: Or maybe you fear commitment.

MCGRAW: Absolutely.

KING: And, by the way, why is that bad? MCGRAW: Well, the idea...

KING: You shouldn't be committed if you don't want to be committed, right?

MCGRAW: There's a high divorce rate in America. And that's when both people are willing to climb the mountain, swim the stream, slay the dragon in order to get together.

If you have got to talk somebody into it, if you have got to stalk them, if you have got to run them down in order to get them to do it, you -- that's not a commitment. That's a surrender. You don't want to do that. You want somebody that's moving towards you.

And, you know, when -- when I say love smart, I mean there is a smart way to go about this. And like -- for example, one of the chapters in there is what I call the character of you. I think you have got to star in your own life. And a lot of people that haven't been successful relationship-wise, they haven't made that connection that they want, they're kind of down on themselves.

You can't do that. Not everybody is some kind of media model. Whoever you are, you have got your best configuration, and that's what I call your defined product. You have got to decide, look, this is who I am; this is my best way to present myself, and I'm going to ride that horse to the finish line. Not everybody will like it, but that's OK. You're not looking for everybody. You're just looking for one.

KING: Aren't a lot of people guilty of that definition of insanity, repeating the same behavior, expecting a different result?

MCGRAW: Time and again, we do that. You see people that go to the same places. They go to the same bars, the same restaurants, the same clubs, the same places. You already know everybody there and they know you.

You have got to get out of your comfort zone and go somewhere else, present yourself differently. Look, if you are sitting around with an Aunt Bee hairdo and Aunt Bee glasses, and that ain't working for you, change it.

And if you're -- and maybe you -- maybe you need to try that retro look. There's nothing wrong with any one thing, but try different things, until you get the result that you're looking for, because the worst thing in the world you can do, go to a party -- some woman goes to a party, talks to four or five guys. Next day, they're having lunch. Not one of them can remember her.

I would much rather four of them remember her and not like her and one of them really like her. You want to be noticed. You want to be leaving some signature where people say, now, I know her.

KING: What do you do when your heart wins out over your head, though?

MCGRAW: Well... KING: Head over heels?

MCGRAW: Head over heels. There's a big difference between falling in love and being in love. There's a big difference between infatuation and falling in love.

KING: How do you know the difference, though, when you're feeling it?

MCGRAW: Well, you need to give it a little time. I mean, we get really excited.

KING: You can't be in love in a week.


Well, I don't know. Maybe you can.


MCGRAW: But does it last?

The truth is that the research tells us that long engagements do not predict long marriages. So, if somebody says, well, we were engaged for five years and then got married. Well, it sounds to me like it took you a long time to talk yourself into it.

You know, if it took that long, then maybe it wasn't a good idea. So, it -- it's not how much time goes by. It is how effectively you use that time. You know, I talked about infrared dating. You need to find out where somebody stands on the things that matter to you. And the sooner you find that out, the sooner you decide, OK, I want to build on this or I don't.

And one of the things that I think is so important is, dating is a game. You got to have some fun doing this. You know, and people sometimes say, well, you know, you're picking a life partner. Is that a game?

You may eventually be picking a life partner -- life partner, but, right now, you're just dating. So, get excited. Have some fun. Get out there and date. Try some different things.

KING: Do you have any rules on sex and dating?

MCGRAW: Well, you...

KING: Can there be rules on...

MCGRAW: You know, everybody has to make up their own mind about that.

But I got to tell you, research tells us, the number-one reason that men say they don't get married is because they don't have to in order to get sex. Now, you know, my mother used to tell my sisters, you know, why buy the cow if you can get the milk free? And the idea was...

KING: You're Ross Perot tonight.

MCGRAW: No. Don't say that.


MCGRAW: I'm taller than he is -- but a good Texan, however.

KING: Yes. I know.

MCGRAW: But I think you -- you really have to play your cards.

And I -- I -- you can make this decision morally. You can make this decision based on your religious doctrine, or you can make the decision just based on results. But you have got to keep some intrigue. You have got to keep some mystery about who you are. You have got to have something at the next level or there's no -- if there's no next level to go to, then why would you do it?

Because think about this, Larry. There is a cultural difference between men and women on marriage. Women, when they're little girls, what are they socialized to do? You see them in their bedroom. They get their dolls and they're playing wedding or they're putting a Kleenex on their head like it's a veil and walking between the beds, like they're going down the aisle.

Have you ever heard of a guy that gets his G.I. Joe and plays wedding in his bedroom? I don't think so.




KING: Good point.

MCGRAW: So, there's just a completely different socialization process.

KING: Dr. Phil.

The new book is "Love Smart: Find the One You Want, Fix the One You Got."

We will talk about fixing next. And then we will be going to your phone calls at the bottom of the hour.

By the way, we had previously announced that Bill Maher was our guest tomorrow night. Bill Maher will be on, on the 15th.

Tomorrow night, former Presidents Bush and Clinton will be with us.

And, Thursday night, Erik Menendez from prison, along with his wife.

And, Friday night, Marlo Thomas.

We will be right back.


MCGRAW: I have a little test in "Love Smart" to see how well you know men. OK? Here's the first question. Is this fact or fiction? All men ever think about is sex? OK? If you think that's true -- women, if you think that's true, clap.


MCGRAW: All right.

If you think that's false, clap.


MCGRAW: So, some of you think we also get hungry. OK.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me and my wife have huge differences when it comes to our sex life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Spencer (ph) has got to loosen up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife thinks about sex all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have even cleaned the house naked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she cold? Put some clothes on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Phil, tell my husband that he's too sexually uptight.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dr. Phil, how do you and Robin spice up your sex life?


MCGRAW: Well, I will let Robin answer that. But...


(LAUGHTER) KING: Our guest is Dr. Phil. The new book is "Love Smart."

OK, fix the one you got. Now, divorce -- as someone once said, divorce is -- must be pretty popular. A lot of people do it, right?



KING: So, you don't have to fix everything, do you?

MCGRAW: No, you don't.

But, listen, when you get into a relationship, it takes work. I mean, it really does. And I have so many people that say, should it be this much work? If we really love each other, if -- if we're really excited about this person, then wouldn't this be the most natural thing in the world? Of course not. You're merging two lives together.

You are, all of a sudden, sharing space, time, effort, energy, money. You're solving problems together. You're spending a lot of time together. And it takes work. And the -- the fix the one you got part of this, you can either read that as fix your partner or you can read it as fix your relationship, whatever works for you.

But the whole point is, if you're going to love smart, you will never stop dating. When you're in your marriage, you have got to continue to date. You have got to...

KING: Date in the marriage?

MCGRAW: Date, absolutely. You have got to flirt with each other. You have got to get away from the kids, get away from the problems.

If all you ever deal with in a relationship are problems, you are going to have a problem relationship, no question about it. You have got to deal with fun stuff. You know, a relationship is going to be successful if it's based on solid underlying friendship. And what do friends do? Friends laugh, talk, tell jokes. They go share common experiences together. They do a lot of things that are just for fun.

And loving smart means you have got to put the sizzle back in your relationship.

KING: Can you intellectualize it, though? Can you sit down with your spouse and say, little, here's what we are going to do; we will do this; we will do that; we will read Phil's book; we will -- can you really do that?

MCGRAW: Well, first, let's put read Phil's book at the top of that list, and then I will say, yes, of course.


MCGRAW: No, Larry, sometimes, you have to behave your way to success.

And you say, what do you mean, fake it until you make it? No, there's a difference between faking it and behaving your way to success. You married this person for a reason, right? There was something about them that lit you up from the inside out. There was something about them that intrigued you, something that attracted you.

You need to focus on those things again to put the sizzle back in your relationship. And it -- it is like anything else, that old saying, use it or lose it. If you don't use your sense of humor, you will lose your sense of humor. If you don't use your playful side, you will lose your playful side.

So, if you're in a relationship, you -- you intellectualize it to schedule. The more unnatural it feels to have fun and joke and play and seduce one another, the more unnatural that feels, the more you need to do it.

KING: What's a bigger problem in getting it right to fix the one you got, finances or monogamy?

MCGRAW: Well, look, everybody gets in the comfortable zone when they're in a marriage for a period of time. And you don't have to get lazy because you're comfortable.

One of the things that I have always said is, you do need variety in your relationship, but it doesn't mean different people. It just means different things. Don't get in a rut. For example, when you have children, don't stop being friends and lovers. Don't always get in the same routine day after day after day.

Change your hair; change your dress; change your routine; change your schedule. Create some freshness and newness in your relationship.

KING: Is it hard?

MCGRAW: It is hard.

But, as you know, you -- you get out of it...


KING: ... it's worth it.

MCGRAW: You get out of it what you put into it.

Robin and I are empty-nesters now. For the first time in 25 years and 11 months, I'm not a day-to-day parent, because our youngest, Jordan, has gone off to college. And it is just the two of us now. I can't tell you how happy I am that we didn't stop our relationship when we had children. We let them join our lives, but we continued doing things together as a couple. And, so, we're not strangers now that we are empty-nesters.

KING: How do you settle disputes? How do you settle disputes? MCGRAW: I just say, yes, ma'am.


MCGRAW: Yes, ma'am, whatever -- no, we -- you know, one of the things that I -- I think is very important -- and it's part of loving smart -- is that you're very honest and up front about the way you feel. You know, one of the biggest criticisms that men have of women in the dating process is that they say women try to be all things to all people.

In other words, they tell him what he wants to hear. And I say, absolutely don't do that. Decide who you authentically are. That's what I mean about the defined product. Decide who you are and be that.

I will promise you, if he doesn't like it, somebody else will. So, you have got to be true to who you are.

KING: Our guest is Dr. Phil, who always seems to hit them out of the park.

"Love Smart" is the new one, "Find the One You Want, Fix the One You Got." He's, of course, the number-one "New York Times" best- selling author, the host of the daily syndicated program, very, very popular.

And, when we come back, we will show you how popular. We will go to some of these massive amount of phone calls.

Don't go away.


MCGRAW: Why do you care if she's cleaning the house naked? I mean, most guys are just glad if they clean it at all.


MCGRAW: And she's doing it naked?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She does it with the blinds open.

MCGRAW: I would think you would be going around dropping stuff.


MCGRAW: I mean...



KING: A lot of things happening in Dr. Phil's life, in addition to the publication of "Love Smart." He's going to host a special holiday show to air December 14th, 15th and 16th for families affected by hurricanes. He and his wife head to Washington this weekend, where they'll host Christmas in Washington, a concert to air on TNT. It's being taped on the 11th. It will air on the 14th of December. And the president and first lady are scheduled to attend. And he's got a six-episode order from CBS for an unscripted show called "Moochers," which will help people rid their lives of deadbeat relatives and friends.

Who came up with that?

MCGRAW: Well, we've done that topic on our show for a time. And this show is being executive-produced by my son Jay, who you know. You've had him on the show before. And he is just doing a great job with that, executive-producing that for CBS.

And it's to get some of these kids that are kind of boomerangers, you can't seem to get rid of them. They go off, they come back, they go off and they come back. So we're going to have a lot of fun with that, and hopefully inspire some real change.

KING: And you host that with various celebrities, the Christmas in Washington?

MCGRAW: The Christmas in Washington, we're very excited about. Carrie Underwood is going to be there, Rascal Flatts, CeCe Winans, Ciara, Click Five, Jane Monheit. Just some amazing, amazing talent.

KING: Where do you do it at?

MCGRAW: We do it at the national building and museum.

KING: Beautiful.

MCGRAW: Which isn't that wonderful, with the columns and everything in there?

KING: Nice working for a president.

MCGRAW: Yes, it is. I mean, it's kind of funny to come out, and they're sitting there in the first row. We did it last year, and really it just started the Christmas season for us.

KING: You want to comment before we go to calls on the suit in connection with the Shape Up products? They're suing that you made deceptive and fraudulent claims for the product?

MCGRAW: I've never thought I'd get sued for vitamins. You know, I figured vitamins...

KING: What did you say, cures cancer?

MCGRAW: Of course not. Of course not. You know, the whole idea, I've endorsed very few things in my life. And I did this as a charitable endorsement. In other words, I took no fees for it whatsoever. Just endorsed the vitamins as part of an overall plan to improve your health. There are nutritional supplement...

KING: So who is suing you?

MCGRAW: You know, a couple of lawyers put together a lawsuit. And, you know, I've learned as I have gained in recognition and notoriety that you're a little bit of a lightning rod for that kind of thing.

KING: Are you very concerned?

MCGRAW: I'm not. I'm very comfortable. The products are high quality. They were presented in a right and proper fashion, and I have no problem with it whatsoever.

KING: Tipp City, Ohio. The new book "Love Smart." The guest Dr. Phil. Hello.

CALLER: Hello there. Yes, Dr. Phil, do you think Natalee could have been given to the drug cartel in exchange for drugs and is being used as a love slave?

MCGRAW: You know, I think anything is possible. What you have to focus on at this point is what is probable. And I think what is probable, very sadly and unfortunately, is that she has been abducted and killed.

You know, if you haven't found her by now, the statistics start to suggest, according to the FBI folks that we've been working with, both current and retired, that's probably the most likely thing.

But the body hasn't been found. No evidence of the crime has been turned over. So I think you have to consider all possibilities.

But you want to guard against raising false hope, and recognize that probably she has lost her life. But hopefully, you know, you hope for the best.

KING: Greenville, South Carolina. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Dr. Phil. You actually made me rethink my question in reference to your book. Is it fair to say that it's really up to the women as far as fixing what you already have, that it's up to us to bring the spark back and make things more exciting, especially when you have children and all that?

MCGRAW: Well, thanks for your question. It is absolutely up to you. And I would say that if I was talking to your husband, or if I was talking to you. And I'll tell you why. Relationships aren't 50- 50, they're 100-100. You're responsible for what you do in your relationship. And if you change what you're doing, you change the stimulus you put out, you'll change the reactions that you get back.

The only person you control is you. You can influence him, you can inspire him. But change yourself. It's not about having a standoff and saying, well, I'll do it if he'll do it. That's not what you want. A month later, six weeks later, when things are better and exciting and there's sizzle back in there, I guarantee you, you won't care who started it. You won't care that you were the one that took the initiative.

KING: Sioux Lookout, Ontario. Hello.

CALLER: Hello.


CALLER: Hello, Larry and hi, Dr. Phil.

MCGRAW: Good evening.

CALLER: I've been trying to get on the show for about six years.

MCGRAW: Well, here you go.

CALLER: I have a daughter who has been missing for 20 years.

MCGRAW: Oh, wow.

CALLER: I believe that she's on a file where she's put into a cold file, and I haven't heard anything from the police in four or five years now, since Peterson was first in trouble. I've written to John Walsh and sent him quite a lengthy story to him, like I was asked to do, and I've had no results. I'm really getting very upset. I'm 83 years old, and I want to find a conclusion to this before I pass on. Can you help me?

MCGRAW: Well, thank you so much for your call. And first off, let me say that I'm very, very sorry for your loss. And I will tell you that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And it's, unfortunately, there are so many crimes that are contemporary and don't have cold trails, and so few resources, that sometimes older cases do get lost.

But I can tell you, continue to beat the drum, continue to call the local police. Continue to talk to the national Missing Persons Bureau. Do everything you can, and just don't give up. Because, as you beat the drum, then, you know, eventually somebody might turn something up that would help you.

KING: Do we know how many people are missing?

MCGRAW: You know, Larry, that is known, I'm sure, at least we know how many are reported. But the truth is, particularly with the highly transient society we have, and as computerized a world as we are and as computerized a nation as we are, it is amazing how little crosstalk there are sometimes between counties, let alone states and countries.

KING: We'll be right back with more of Dr. Phil. The book "Love Smart: Find the One You Want, Fix the One You Got." Don't go away.



MCGRAW: Let me tell you what the deal is, all right? You're getting ready to go on a date. But I want to get you ready for it. OK, now, I'm going to help you.

OK? You see this? That is what we call an IFB. And we're going to put that in your ear.

I'm going to be talking to you, all right? And I'm going to be making suggestions to you about what to do and how to do it. He doesn't know I'm talking to you.


KING: That program airs tomorrow. Now that is convoluted. You're controlling that.

MCGRAW: Well, this is someone who has said I've just gone out time and time again. I can never get past the first date. I just don't know why. And so we looked at how she behaved on a date, then we put her on another date. And I was in her ear.

KING: Did the guy know?

MCGRAW: He didn't know. Of course we told him afterwards.

KING: How did she do?

MCGRAW: Actually, very well. And she was absolutely delightful. He's gone out with her, interested in going out with her again. So I think it could be a spark there, Larry.

KING: The matchmaker. Evansville, Indiana. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Dr. Phil. Actually we'd love for you to come and speak in Evansville. But my question is, Aruba is one of our favorite vacation spots, and I would love to go back, but I really don't want to go back until they find her.

What do you think about the boycotting Aruba? I mean, I really feel very strong about not ever visiting the island again.

MCGRAW: Well, I think everybody has to make up their own mind about that, which I've said before. But I think that there are problems in a country, a situation where they just don't have resources that they may need to investigate everything as much as they would probably like to. And as much as we would certainly like them to.

To me, I think you have to make up your own mind. But isn't there an awful lot in the United States that you haven't seen. I think this is a good time to see the good old USA.

KING: Baltimore, Maryland. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Dr. Phil.

MCGRAW: Good evening.

CALLER: I have a question I would like to ask you. I watch the show all the time.

I was married for 16 years, and at the last year I made a fatal mistake and I told my husband that I was going to leave him. And he tried to kill me.

How do I go about -- it has been four years now since this has happened. How do I go about gaining the men's trust again? I got a wall up that I just can't bring that wall back down.

KING: You still with him?

CALLER: He died last year.

MCGRAW: Well, you're describing an obviously a very extreme situation. But it is indicative of what a lot of people experience when they go through a bad relationship and carry that baggage into the next relationship.

One of the things that I talk about in "Love Smart" is, if you're going to love smart, you got to leave all that baggage behind. Because I think when you get into a relationship, you either contribute to it or you contaminate it 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

So you need to make sure that you've done an analysis, an autopsy on the relationships that you've had before and go into new ones with a clean slate.

If you've got a chip on your shoulder about men and you take that with you to your next relationship, then he's dead in the water before he ever starts. You can't trust if you have open emotional wounds, if you have unfinished emotional business. So you need to resolve that before you contaminate the next relationship that you're in.

KING: Toronto, Ontario. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Dr. Phil.

MCGRAW: Good evening.

CALLER: My question pertains more to your "Family First" book. My husband and I live in two different cities. I have a 5-month-old and an 8-year-old from a previous marriage. My ex-husband and I are quite close. We act as one big extended family. And we are making this work.

We look at it like an adventure traveling back and forth. I'm there for ten days a month, he's here for ten days a month. But his career is shaping up in Winnipeg. That's probably the only issue that we really have that gets in the way and worries me because my life is here and I love my family.

I love living where I am. He's listening. So we'd love your coaching.

MCGRAW: Well, first off, I think you've got a really great attitude about, first off, having formed a relationship as co-allies of these children after you got a divorce.

So often parents really have hostility towards each other because of their romantic problems and the kids get caught in the middle. It sounds like you've just changed your relationship for one of romantic committed involvement to being parents of these children. And it sounds like you've got their interests ahead of your own and that's really a great thing.

I think the fact that you're going back and forth for ten days, if the children get into a rhythm of that and it's working for them, then I say you don't fix what ain't broke.

Clearly if his career is taking off and he's going to move in another direction, you're going to have to make some hard decisions. And you've got to see who has the most time, effort, energy and resource to nurture these children. It's not about what the parent wants.

I mean, he might say, I would really miss them if they weren't here, but yet with a new career he might be in a situation where he simply doesn't have the time, effort and energy to invest in them, at least in the near term and starting a new job. That may not be the case.

But put the children's interests first the way you always have and you'll find the answer.

KING: Program note again, Bill Maher was due to be our guest tomorrow night. He'll be with on the 15th and tomorrow night's will include former Presidents Bush and Clinton.

Eric Menendez on Thursday.

Right now, we turn things over to Anderson Cooper. He will host "AC 360" at the top of the hour. What's on tonight, Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, AC 360: Yeah, a lot to cover tonight, Larry. A secret witness points the finger at Saddam Hussein. A woman hidden behind a screen fights back tears as she tells the court she was tortured and sexually assaulted by Saddam's henchmen. We'll take you inside the court in what was a very dramatic day.

Also tonight, the face transplant. Tonight you're going to hear from two surgeons who performed the first ever partial face transplant. Some tough questions for them. Did the patient try to kill herself several months ago? And if so, was she really the right choice for such difficult surgery? They'll respond tonight on "360," Larry.

KING: Always interesting, always timely. We'll be right back with Dr. Phil McGraw. Anderson Cooper is with you at 10:00 Eastern. We'll return right after these words.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RANDY JACKSON, JUDGE, AMERICAN IDOL: She just said he can't dance. But Paula, prove us all wrong.

PAULA ABDUL, JUDGE, AMERICAN IDOL: I'm going to prove -- I'm going to prove it. Oh please, help me, help me.

Clap it on the down beat. Now, we're going to move our hips. No, no. Around. Around.


KING: What were you thinking?

MCGRAW: Oh, that's painful to watch. What was I thinking? I'm thinking I got ambushed by Paula Abdul and Randy Jackson. But that is -- we did a show that airs December 14th and 15th, where we ask a lot of the children that are evacuees from the Gulf Coast and are in the L.A. area and their host families to come to the studio and Robin put on an amazing Christmas party for them.

We had an ice skating rink back on New York Street there, decorated all the buildings. Had all of this great entertainment for them. And just did a great party. And they were part of the entertainment. They came in and did karaoke with the kids. Then they know I don't dance very well, so they grabbed me up there to prove it, I guess.

KING: Frisco, Colorado, hello.

CALLER: Dr. Phil, hi. It sounds like you've got a great new book out and I'm looking forward to reading it.

MCGRAW: Well thank you.

CALLER: I've got a question about Internet dating. It seems like it still has some stigma attached to it, but in my opinion, it makes a lot more sense than meeting someone at a bar where all you have to start with is looks and personality. And I think if a person is honest in their profile on a personals Web site, it can indicate their values which, as you said earlier, that's what's important.

MCGRAW: Well, I'm a fan of Internet dating. I think it is using the computer -- you know, it used to be let your fingers do the walking in the Yellow Pages, but now you can let your fingers do the walking on the Internet with something like, for example.

KING: But can't it be dangerous?

MCGRAW: It can be dangerous. But can anything be dangerous? If you go meet somebody at a club or you go meet somebody, just somewhere at a club or a bar or in the park, of course it can be dangerous. You have to always take precautions.

But one of the things that I like about Internet dating is you have a chance to ask some questions and evaluate the answers. And there are some definite do's and don'ts. I talk about that -- there's a chapter in the book called "fishing with a net."

Because one of my sisters used to say she couldn't get a date with a net. I said, well, you've got a net now, you can use the Internet. But there are some do's and don'ts.

You know, you don't ever meet anybody alone to begin with. You always just use your first name. When you do meet, be in a public place. Keep it for a short period of time. Gather information. But it's the same challenge that you would do if you were meeting somebody just out on the street. So I think there are pluses to it. It can be efficient.

KING: San Jose, California, hello.

CALLER: Yes. I'm calling about the Beth Holloway case.

KING: Yes.

CALLER: And I heard Beth on TV one time say she'd only been home two or three days. What about her teenage son? He's lost a sister and plus his mother?

MCGRAW: Well, I think that first, Beth has relocated to the United States from Aruba at this point. And this is a tireless woman that really spent a tremendous amount of time making sure that her relationship with her son has been maintained.

And I can tell you that those efforts have paid off because I think they have a very supportive relationship of each other right now. Were sacrifices made by him and by her? No question about it.

When you face that kind of a tragedy, it disrupts everyone's life. But she has been very mindful and kept a very balanced relationship throughout the rest of her family.

KING: We'll be back with our remaining moments with Dr. Phil right after this.


ROBIN MCGRAW, WIFE OF PHIL MCGRAW: I have been reading up on Wendy. She thinks she's a wallflower. I've got just the thing to fix that. We're going to do a makeover today.


R. MCGRAW: You ready?


R. MCGRAW: All right, let's do it. We're cutting her hair, then adding gold and chestnut highlights to brighten Wendy's complexion.

WENDY: I've never had a makeover. I'm lucky if I get my hair done. R. MCGRAW: Then it's time for makeup to bring out her very best features, like her eyes and her smile. It's a confidence booster to help Wendy come out of her shell when she's out on her date.

WENDY: I feel like a movie star.



KING: One more call for Dr. Phil. Blaine, Minnesota. Hello.

CALLER: Hello, Dr. Phil. I love your sense of humor.

MCGRAW: Thank you.

CALLER: And I had two questions. I was wondering what can we do as a regular citizen about child trafficking? And what is your take on Christmas being changed from celebrating Christ's birth and saying merry Christmas to becoming a non-religious happy holiday theme? Thank you, merry Christmas.

MCGRAW: Well, thanks. You know, I think, of course, with regard to child trafficking, abduction, we just need to really continue to let our congressmen know how strongly we feel about it and how much resource we want to put behind controlling this sort of thing. Because it happens in the millions worldwide every year.

With regard to this controversy about what to call Christmas, it just seems like we're always talking about language and symbols and that sort of thing. And I believe that it's each to his own. I mean, it's Christmas in my house. You know, we're a Christian home and raising a Christian family. For those who haven't been, do what works for you. I think you got to all get along.

KING: ... why do people get angry if someone says happy holiday?

MCGRAW: You know, I just don't know. I think its a snub to their belief system and they feel disloyal if they don't step up and say something about it. But I'm kind of big on inclusion. I think you got to meet people where they are. At my house it's Christmas. At someone else's place, it is the holiday break. Whatever works for you.

KING: Is there another book in the works?

MCGRAW: Right now I don't even want to think about that.

KING: You can't, you don't have one?

MCGRAW: You know, I might at some point in the future. But right now, "Love Smart," this is the most fun book I've ever written. And it's written with a lot of humor. It's written with a lot of fun to say let's get excited.

Think about it. If you're not connected with somebody, if you're not married, and you want to be. You never know if the next person you meet when you turn the corner, the next meeting you have, the next call you take, might be the person you spend the rest of your life with.

Isn't that an adventure? I mean, isn't that exciting? When you get on the elevator, it could be her, it could be him. You never know.

KING: Or maybe not.

MCGRAW: Exactly.

KING: Thanks, Phil.

MCGRAW: Larry, thanks so much.

KING: Dr. Phil McGraw, one of our favorite guests. The new book is "Find the one you want -- fix the one you got," published by Free Press. And you'll be seeing him on television on TNT, his own show's next week with Christmas specials. And me and my wife will be on next Tuesday night.

Tomorrow night, former President's Bush and Clinton will be our special guest. Eric Menendez on Thursday night. Right now, it's time to turn attention to New York City. Gotham, as we said last time. I love saying Gotham. And here's Anderson Cooper, the host of "A.C. 360." Anderson, big night, yes?

COOPER: Yes, a lot going on, Larry. Thanks very much, great show as always.