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CNN Larry King Live

Entwistle Murder Case

Aired February 02, 2006 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, his murdered wife and baby girl were buried yesterday in Massachusetts but their husband and father, Neil Entwistle was still out of the country and authorities have called him a person of interest.
Now the latest on this international murder mystery with the spokesman for the family of victims Rachel and Lillian Entwistle, Joe Flaherty, he was at yesterday's funeral; renowned forensic scientist Dr. Henry Lee; former FBI profiler Candice DeLong; high profile defense attorney Mark Geragos; and former federal prosecutor Mary Fulginiti.

They're all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening. Eleven days now since 27-year-old Rachel Entwistle and her 9-month-old daughter Lillian Rose were found murdered in their suburban Boston home and eleven days with no word from Neil Entwistle, Rachel's husband and Lillian's father. He's holed up a few thousand miles away in another country still labeled by Massachusetts police as a person of interest.

Dr. Lee will be joining us in a little while and so will Mary and Mark. But let's start with Joe Flaherty, a friend and spokesman for Rachel Entwistle's family. What's your relationship to them, Joe?

JOE FLAHERTY, SPOKESMAN FOR FAMILY OF VICTIMS RACHEL, LILLIAN ENTWISTLE: I was a very good friend of the stepfather in this case Joe Matterazzo who's been a friend of mine for over 30 years.

KING: Do you know Neil well?

FLAHERTY: No, I actually didn't know Neil at all.

KING: And what was the funeral like?

FLAHERTY: Well, it was, as you can imagine, it was a very sad affair. You know first, Larry, what I would like to say on behalf of Rachel's mum Priscilla, her stepfather Joe Matterazzo and her brother Jerome Souza, I'd like to thank your viewers out there for the outpouring of love and support and for the messages of hope that were left for them. They're very appreciative of that.

KING: Joe Dwinell is the associate editor of "The Boston Herald." His coverage of the Entwistle case is on the paper's Web site, We spoke a few days ago, Joe. Has this advanced at all? JOE DWINELL, BOSTON HERALD ASSOCIATE EDITOR: Well, it's advanced a little bit, Larry. Our story tomorrow is going to show that the case is tightening. Investigators are really getting down, getting serious as they have been on the case and a few new developments. They're also keeping track of Neil's movements in Britain.

KING: When did the -- when did the killing take place and when did he leave?

DWINELL: Well, they don't know exactly when the killing took place. They believe it was sometime between January 19th and the bodies were discovered on January 22nd. The district attorney is saying that he left sometime on that Friday night or that Saturday morning and he jetted back to England.

KING: Which would have made him capable of doing a murder and leaving?

DWINELL: I believe the D.A. has set out a timeline that does make that a possibility.

KING: Now we go to Nottingham, England where Quentin Rayner is standing by. He's chief reporter for the BBC's East Midlands Today. He was there for Neil Entwistle's surprise appearance at the home of Entwistle's parents what happened Quentin?

QUENTIN RAYNER, BBC, NOTTINGHAM, ENGLAND: Well, it was interesting really because for two days nothing had happened outside the Entwistle's family home in the town of Worksop in North Nottinghamshire and I turned up on Tuesday afternoon and a lot of the journalists there were getting a bit fed up, a bit cold it has to be said.

Lots of American journalists were there as well and they were beginning to pack up. And, all of a sudden there was an arrival by a chief inspector of police, Nottinghamshire Police, and he went into the house.

There was a flurry of cameras. He said he'd talk to us afterwards. As he came out, he said "Well actually the family are just about to leave and it includes Neil Entwistle." That was the first that anybody knew that Neil Entwistle was actually inside the house.

About five minutes later out he came, first out of the house. He got into the car. Nothing was said. We shouted questions at him. Are you going to the -- are you going to the funeral? Are you going to the states? He said absolutely nothing. He was followed by his mother and his father. Again, we threw questions at them and again absolutely no response from any of the family members.

And they drove off despite questions like, from some of our American colleagues saying "We've got a dead baby in the states. Have you got anything to say about that?" Again, no reply and there's been no activity at the house we understand since Tuesday.

KING: Candice DeLong, the former FBI special agent and profiler, what do you make of this?

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well, it doesn't look good. I think Neil's absence since the bodies were discovered speaks volumes. Why isn't he here? Why wasn't he here for the funeral? Why did he not meet with the Massachusetts police that went to England? It's all -- all of those behaviors certainly make him look somewhat guilty.

KING: And they cannot bring him back without charging him? They can't extradite him without charging him right Candice?

DELONG: Well, they can certainly ask him to come back but regarding extradition that would only occur after charges have been filed.

KING: And wouldn't you -- wouldn't you appear to think that they're close to that?

DELONG: Well, they've got time. They don't need to rush this and it's wise that they don't as long as they're keeping an eye on him. Because of the intense coverage of this case, not just in the United States and England but CNN goes all over the world, this man's not really going to be able to go anywhere and not be discovered. So, they need to take their time and do it right.

KING: Joe Flaherty, what is the family saying?

FLAHERTY: The family is reserving comment relative to anything surrounding the criminal investigation in this case obviously. I will tell you this though. The family continues to be and has always been available 24 hours a day, seven days a week to the Middlesex County District Attorney's Office, to the State Police and the Hopkinton Police that are -- that are investigating this case.

They certainly want the case to be solved. They also understand the need to be patient that this could take quite some time. The facts in this case will lead they believe and they're confident that the facts in this case will lead to the person or the persons who are responsible for the -- for the murder of Rachel and Lilly.

KING: Would you say that they liked Neil?

FLAHERTY: You know, again, everything surrounding that family at this point obviously is going to be a point of interest that the police are going to look into and this case isn't going to be solved based on speculation or conjecture and you hear plenty of that right now.

It's going to be solved eventually on the facts of the case and where those facts lead and I'm sure that they will -- they're doing a meticulous investigation as we speak and we're all just going to have to be patient to get the -- to get the truth in this matter.

KING: There is a gun collection at Rachel's father's house isn't there? FLAHERTY: Again, everything surrounding that family is going to be investigated by the proper authorities and the family will leave that and those questions really for the government.

KING: So you're saying, Joe, the family has no opinion at all?

FLAHERTY: What I'm saying is it's a very private family and they do not wish to share their opinion at this point with anyone other than the people that are investigating the case and I think that's really the proper thing to do at this time.

KING: Have the investigators talked to them a lot?

FLAHERTY: Absolutely. They're in constant contact with the people from District Attorney Martha Coakley's office, the state police, the Hopkinton Police and when they feel that it's time to share additional information with them based on their investigation I'm sure that they will -- they will do so. And, again, this family is going to be very patient.

They're very strong and strong in their faith and strong in their belief that this case will be ultimately solved and those responsible will be brought to justice.

KING: We'll be right back right after these words.


JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They were, it seemed a portrait of a happy family. Neil Entwistle and his wife Rachel's Web site chronicled each special occasion, their trips, the baptism of their baby girl Lillian. They had planned a dinner party last Saturday night but when the guests arrived no one answered.



KING: Joining us from Fort Lauderdale is Dr. Henry Lee, chief emeritus of the Connecticut State Police, professor of forensic science, University of New Haven and author of "Blood Crimes."

Before we ask a question of Dr. Lee, back to Quentin Rayner in Nottingham, England, Quentin is there a constant group of journalists around that house?

RAYNER: Well there has been, Larry, but it's tailed off a bit to say the least because on Tuesday it was quite apparent that there wasn't going to be any more activity at the house. We saw one or two things being put into the trunk of the car and everybody assumed that they were traveling somewhere.

You can pick your rumor really. There are some people who believe that the family have gone to a secret location in the U.K. There are rumors going around Worksop that in fact the family have gone to the states. It's impossible to find out because nobody is talking. We've attempted to talk to friends. We've attempted to talk to other members of the family and we are getting nowhere mainly because the family I think kept themselves to themselves and not many people knew them that well.

KING: Dr. Lee, what do you make of all this?

DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, of course, it's become a very strange case. In the past, I've been working with Middlesex District Attorney's Office quite a bit on numerous occasions on different cases. That's a very nice, excellent office, a lot of experience district attorney.

Also, in Boston, Massachusetts area, they have state police attached to district attorney's office, so they have a lot of seasoned investigators working on the case.

This case, of course, first thing we're going to look at the crime scene. The crime scene becomes very important. The second issue, of course, time of the deaths and manner, cause of death is already clear. That's a homicide and the victims both Rachel and Lillian was shot.

Now, of course, what kind of caliber weapon still that's a secret. They say it's a small caliber. Whether or not that's an automatic weapon or revolver that we're still waiting to know, whether or not casing found at the scene can be important.

Of course, the (INAUDIBLE) analysis is crucial in this case too, so a lot of (INAUDIBLE). We can discuss, you know of course generally have to find out a motive, means, opportunity.

KING: Joe Dwinell of the Boston Herald, isn't this beginning to look like a duck, sound like a duck, could be a duck?

DWINELL: It's certainly a murder case. It's a big one. As Joe Flaherty said, you have to be patient. I mean you have to think about the family first but yes, Larry, this case is developing every day. We're also chasing a lot of leads trying to find out where this leads next.

KING: Candice DeLong, it would seem to me what do they need for an arrest?

DELONG: Well, of course, a good piece of forensic would be helpful. For example, if they were to find a weapon that was proven to be the weapon that fired the bullets and it had -- it was directly -- could be directly traced to Neil or whoever they could find it traced to, well there's your arrest warrant right there. On the other hand, as we all know circumstantial evidence if there's enough of it can be just as damning as direct forensic evidence.

And, of course, a recent case of spousal murder that comes to mind that resulted in conviction and death penalty the Scott Peterson case, circumstantial evidence. KING: Yes, all circumstantial. Joe Flaherty, is the family hopeful that a resolution is going to come soon?

FLAHERTY: Well, Larry, I've advised them to be patient. As Dr. Lee just explained there is a laundry list of forensic examinations that's going to take place in this case and those don't happen in a day or a week. Sometimes they take several weeks, sometimes several months.

So, they understand that in order to gather all the facts in this case and to be sure. And, I also like Dr. Lee had worked, I actually worked in that Middlesex D.A.'s Office years ago. I know the District Attorney Martha Coakley. I know how thorough and how competent that office is.

They're going to set the bar very high here and when they gather their facts and they're going to be sure that they have everything done before they decide to make any charging decisions in this case.

But I guess getting back to your original question, the family is very hopeful that it will happen. If it happens sooner rather than later, of course, I think that's good for everyone.

But, you know, they're still obviously mourning, in the early stages of mourning the loss of Rachel and Lilly and they know that this process is going to take some time. Even if something was resolved tomorrow, that's still just the beginning of another journey for them.

KING: Yes. Quentin Rayner will leave us after this segment and then we'll bring in Mark and Mary. Quentin, one more thing, he can leave England can't he? I mean he's not under any indictment. He could get on a plane and go to a country where he can't be indicted, where he can't be brought back.

RAYNER: You're absolutely right. I mean Nottinghamshire Police are stressing that Neil Entwistle is not a suspect in the phrase of the district attorney in Massachusetts. I mean he is a person of interest.

But Nottinghamshire Police have emphasized to me that he is a free man. He can go anywhere he likes. We aren't keeping tabs on him. But when I pressed him on that, I said "So you don't know where he is?" They said, "Well, we are aware of his whereabouts." So, yes, he's free to go wherever he wants and I think that has to be born in mind.

KING: Thank you so much, Quentin. Thanks for reporting for us. We'll be calling on you again.

When we come back our panel remains and we'll be joined by Mark Geragos and Mary Fulginiti. Don't go away.


PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two things have defined Neil Entwistle throughout this tragedy, his absence and his silence. He left his home outside Boston on the same weekend his wife and baby were found murdered and he hasn't returned since, not even for the funeral.

The 27-year-old has said nothing about those murders, reportedly not even to police. Last weekend in London he was questioned by American authorities but police still describe him as a person of interest not a suspect.



KING: Our legal dynamic duo now joins us, Mark Geragos, the well-known defense attorney and Mary Fulginiti, the former federal prosecutor, who successfully prosecuted international drug lords and money launderers.

Let's start with Mary (INAUDIBLE) why can't they bring a charge here already?

MARY FULGINITI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, you know, they're still gathering evidence. At the beginning of investigations, Larry, it's sort of like a puzzle. You know you dump the pieces on the floor and then you've got to sort of see how they all fit together to figure out who ultimately committed the crime, so that's where they're at.

In fact, in investigations it's far more difficult because you have to gather those pieces. And if it turns out to be more of a circumstantial evidence case, it even takes longer because you've got to get more pieces. You've got to make mountains really out of molehills so at the end of the day you can ultimately get a conviction.

KING: Do you need motive?

FULGINITI: You know, you don't need a motive in cases. In fact, I've seen many cases where you don't have it but it's obviously helpful because it helps explain to a jury why somebody would commit this act and it gives them an understanding of why they did do it.

KING: It is puzzling isn't it, Mark?

MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well the most puzzling thing about this obviously, at least from my standpoint, is that there were two searches of that house, first the family and then the police and they didn't find anything.

And then on the third search is when they discovered the bodies, so everybody seems to be jumping on the Neil Entwistle bandwagon of guilt but that's something that obviously the district attorney, I can guarantee you any prosecutor, is going to have to focus on. They went through that house. That house was searched. They didn't find anything, so obviously and I'll anticipate what Mary's going to say.


GERAGOS: She's going to say well it was a cursory search or this or that. The fact of the matter is the police were there to check on it. It was a well being search and that's something that somebody is going to have to deal with.

FULGINITI: Yes, they're going to -- right, down the road because it's going to be a defense attorney obviously that's going to attack the police and their behavior.

GERAGOS: Not just a defense attorney. It's just logic.

FULGINITI: But it is really -- yes, but you know a well being check, Mark is what it is. They don't do an intensive search. They go in and they just sort of check to see if everybody's OK. I mean in most cities they wouldn't even come and do a well being check.

GERAGOS: But they did a well being check here. This is not exactly the Taj Mahal that they were searching. It's a relatively small house.

FULGINITI: Yes but the house -- the house was dark. The car was gone. They didn't have any reason to believe there was any murder that occurred there that's for sure.

GERAGOS: The family -- family was -- the family was in there also.

KING: Dr. Lee, if they never find the gun how damaging that will be to solving?

LEE: That's a very difficult case now. The gun now probably it's a very important clue because now they have two bullets. Whether or not they have some casing we don't know but the two bullets. They can put in (INAUDIBLE). That's the National Firearm Identification System. It's a nationwide system.

The bullet can search the databank, maybe lucky get a hit, identify the owner of the weapon all through the trace, maybe find out whether that Neil purchased a weapon, obtained a weapon or (INAUDIBLE) maybe...

KING: What if he threw it in the river?

LEE: Threw in the river but you can identify this weapon was used to commit a crime before and through the investigation may be able to link to somebody. And, of course, time of the deaths become crucial in this case because the delay of finding body. That's a little bit difficult.

Just now Mark and Mary argue about the issue. In the past, we do have cases the cursory search of the scene did not find the body. In recent years, Jon Benet Ramsey case, it's a typical example. The police searched the scene twice and did not find the body, so of course this has thrown a curve ball in this investigation. However, the investigator can look at what's the last meal which you eat and then the stomach content may give us some clue, whether or not she died right after the meal or died after long time after she eaten the last meal, say the night before. That can be a crucial fact.

KING: All right, Joe Dwinell, how good is this police department?

DWINELL: They're a good, typical suburban police department. The state police are excellent. A couple quick points, the lights were on in the house, there was a dog in the house. We're going to have a story on that tomorrow. Also, the TV was on in the house, so there was some light in that house when they first went and searched. That's why they went.

KING: And, Joe Flaherty, her parents searched too?

FLAHERTY: Well, Larry, again, you know, we're getting -- we're delving into that area of the investigation itself. I will tell you that they are very comfortable with the case and with the way the case is being handled and the way that it's being handled by the state police and the Hopkinton Police and they're satisfied with the -- more than satisfied with the work that's being done in this case right now.

KING: Candice, since the person of interest went overseas can the FBI get involved?

DELONG: Eventually they can get involved and, of course, the FBI has agents in London assigned to that city and they will be able to assist the Massachusetts Police covering any leads that they need covered there so, yes.

KING: Mark, if he did do it, why not fly right now to a country that doesn't extradite?

GERAGOS: Well, you could -- you could make a lot of arguments. One argument that you could make that would be supportive of innocence as opposed to guilt is that maybe he thought he was being threatened.

I mean there's all of these rumors swirling around about this Internet business that had gone awry, the fact that there had been a lot of complaints and angry people. He might have thought that fleeing was the way that he was going to stay out of danger and that's why he fled.

The problem is, is that a prosecutor will use the fact that he didn't show up to the funeral. I've had cases where that's been a fact or something that was elicited. So, it's not a helpful fact.

KING: Could her death have been by somebody mad at him and he left so they shot the wife?

FULGINITI: That's clearly a possibility. I mean that is a possibility.

KING: Because he was in some kind of nefarious business right?

FULGINITI: Well, you know, there is a lot that's sort of, you know, really unusual about this case, first of all his behavior. As Mark, you know, has pointed out is very unusual.

Here you have somebody that left for London either shortly before or after these murders occurred. Then, you know, once he finds out obviously that his wife and child have been brutally murdered, you know, he doesn't even come back to the United States. He stays in London. He doesn't show up for the wake. You're right he doesn't show up for the funeral. That's suspicious behavior. It's not normal behavior.

And then you've got these businesses. He's got some shady Internet businesses which we know had gone awry obviously. EBay shut him down a few days before and there were some disgruntled customers, one of whom could have been disgruntled. But I have to tell you it would have to be a lot of money or something really at stake for them to be that disgruntled to come looking for him.

GERAGOS: I don't know about that. There's a lot of crazies in this world who will look up addresses and do crazy things, so you never know. I mean I just don't know that we have all of the facts. I'm sure that the D.A. or the police do and I think one of the reasons that you haven't seen an arrest is because there are problems here (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Let me get a break. We'll reintroduce the panel. And we'll go to your phone calls. Don't go away.


KING: Welcome back to more of "LARRY KING LIVE." Let's reintroduce our panel as we discuss this puzzling case. In Watertown, Massachusetts, is Joe Flaherty, friend of and spokesman for Rachel Entwistle's family.

In Boston is Joe Dwinell, associate editor of the "Boston Herald." His coverage of the Entwistle case is on the paper's Web site, You can follow it anywhere around the world.

In Ft. Lauderdale is Dr. Henry Lee, chief emeritus, Connecticut State Police forensic laboratory. Professor of forensic science, University of New Haven and author of "Blood Crimes."

In San Francisco is Candice DeLong, the former FBI special agent and profiler.

And here in Los Angeles is Mark Geragos, the well-known defense attorney and Mary Fulginiti, former federal prosecutor, now a defense attorney who successfully prosecuted international drug lords and money launderers.

Before we go to some phone calls, Joe Dwinell, what do we know about the family's Web site?

DWINELL: It's been shut down as of today. That Web site that you've all seen, for almost two weeks now, is shut down. It's either overloaded or Neil, himself, possibly pulled the plug.

KING: Does that surprise you, anybody?

GERAGOS: No, not necessarily. I think he's obviously getting some advice and somebody shut him down and they probably said shut down the Web site, as well.

KING: To Louisville, Kentucky.

CALLER: Yes, Larry, my question is primarily to Dr. Lee, but the rest of the panel, also. Because the media keeps saying there was a lack of blood at the murder scene, I was wondering if the mother and child could have already been dead when they were shot.

KING: Doctor?

LEE: Yes, both more likely shot, so the blood, of course, flow according to gravity. So most of the blood more likely is in the cavity and some of the blood probably soak into mattress and cover. So, that's why you don't see any blood spatter. If both were standing up or sitting, we, in fact, should see some blood splatter. Not because lack of blood give us the indication, more likely both are in bed.

KING: Joe Dwinell, has anybody seen the death certificate?

DWINELL: Lillian's is out and Rachel's will be out officially tomorrow. I have Lillian's in my hand. It was a gunshot wound to the abdomen and she died within minutes.

KING: And would there necessarily be a lot of blood in that kind of situation or not?

GERAGOS: As Henry said, it all depends on the position, where you are, how close, whether or not the gun was at a close distance or farther away.

KING: Coppell, Texas, hello.

CALLER: Hello, my question is for Joe Dwinell.

KING: Yes.

CALLER: Can he tell me anything about Mr. Entwistle's background in England? Does he have any prior criminal history and does he have a legal U.S. Visa or Green Card?

DWINELL: We know that he's a graduate of the University of York. He's a very smart man. According to all of his friends, he was brilliant. He loved to row, that's how they met. He's, as we know, he's very good with Web sites. He has a lot of them. And he was over here looking for employment. As for his status in America, that's a good question. I don't know it 100 percent right now.

KING: Do you know it, Joe Flaherty?

FLAHERTY: I'm sorry, Larry, I missed the question. Do I know his status?

KING: His status in America. Was it a Green Card, a Visa, what?

FLAHERTY: I don't know, Larry. I'm sorry, no.

KING: OK, Candice DeLong, can you profile this murder?

DELONG: Well, I would need to know more, of course, than we do. But there is a lot of things about what we do know that would lead me to believe -- for example, one of the things that is apparently, they were found, the bodies were found, they were covered -- covered by a blanket, which certainly might help explain why they weren't found quickly by others searching.

They may, I am hypothesizing here. I don't know if they were in a closet or on the floor, where were they, but they were covered. Larry, generally -- generally speaking, not always, when a stranger goes in a house to do harm to someone to a woman, to her child, you're going to see other things than what is plainly seen in this crime scene.

No sexual assault, no indication that the house was ransacked or burglarized, no money taken. And her child was killed and then the bodies were covered up. Generally speaking, that is not what we see in a stranger crime of a home invasion.

KING: Somebody had, a post (ph) caring about them to cover them up.

DELONG: Sometimes, yes, killers -- people that have killed have told us, yes, after I did it, I covered up their faces because I couldn't stand to look at what I had done.

That also can be done by a stranger. He thinks he wants to do something, he thinks he's going to enjoy it and he's horrified at what he does. But, generally speaking, that's not what we see. We see faces and bodies being covered up by somebody who knew them and does not want to look at what they did.

KING: Mark, what do you make of that?

GERAGOS: What do I make of it? You couldn't get of that into any a courtroom as admissible evidence if your life depended on it.

KING: No, but it's an investigative tool.

GERAGOS: With all due respect to Candice, and all the other profilers out there, I don't put any stock whatsoever in what profilers have to say. I think you could go and divine jackal tracks with twigs for what they give you. I don't think that it gives you all that much. As an investigative tool, I don't know what it does for you. It doesn't do -- it doesn't do anything in terms of being admissible, it doesn't do anything in terms of getting you there. I mean, the fact of the matter is, is a lot of -- what was just said is a lot of hypothesizing. We don't know if the bullet went through the blanket, we don't know if the blanket was on there first or if the blanket was grabbed by the people.

KING: Do you use them, Mary? Do you use profiling?

FULGINITI: You know, not for introducing of evidence, no. I've never put one on the stand as an expert. They're really used, I think, in the investigation stage of the case because there is a lot. I disagree with you.

There is a lot you can gather from somebody who has actually investigated and studied a number of different types of defendants and crimes. So I think there are some typical actions and atypical actions. But like Mark said, I don't think you can say definitively because the faces were covered that it obviously was somebody who knew them.

GERAGOS: And the problem is, I think, that when you get into starting to try to analyze in terms of a mindset or trying to say, OK, this fits that, or it doesn't fit that, you end up not letting the facts drive it. And the facts should drive the investigation.

KING: We'll be right back with more and more phone calls. Don't go away.


JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Their case has drawn media attention.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight detectives are on the train of Neil Entwistle.

CARROLL: On two continents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A new twist in the murder of...

CARROLL: ... newspapers trying to find any leads about what happened to this seemingly happy family. Neighbors who knew them don't have a clue. They told us the couple met while attending York University in England. Entwistle's mother was described as "overjoyed" when her son announced he was marrying the American girl from Massachusetts.



KING: Welcome back. Montreal, hello. CALLER: Hello, Larry. I have a question for the profiler. I would like to know in all of these cases we've seen lately, are we any closer to knowing if there is a common thread that would predict why these men choose murder over divorce?

KING: Candice, do we know?

DELONG: No. I could simply say in my opinion it's, of course, we're surmising here, but in general why somebody, anybody, men, husband or wife would choose murder over divorce -- and we do see this a lot, all you have to do is pick up the paper.

I think is simply the easy way out. It's convenient. It's kind of a -- one of the things that I think is a common denominator in spousal murder, at least all spousal murders, premeditated spousal murders that I am very familiar with, is that the offender has a certain degree of arrogance and they go into it believing in their heart and in their head they are going to get away with it. And it's simply an easy way to go. Of course, they don't think they're going it be caught and when they do, they're quite surprised.

KING: Dr. Lee, do you think this case will be solved?

LEE: Yes, I think this case is definitely going to be solved. Just a matter of time. When they put all the pieces together. And, of course, he's not talking. You cannot put him on polygraph nor continue investigation. This case right now don't have a direct witness.

So, to solve that case, basically, we have to look at forensic evidence, the crime scene analysis, reconstruction and timeline analysis, artificial intelligence, look at the data and try to figure out. Of course, I'm sure they already looked at all his hard drive to see any other additional information on the computer.

KING: Joe Flaherty, is the family confident of a successful conclusion?

FLAHERTY: Yes, Larry, they're very confident. I'll tell you that based on my conversations with them, they have every confidence in the district attorney's office, the state police and the Hopkinton police. I'm very familiar with the mechanics of doing a homicide investigation and having done several hundred over my career on the state police and I share that confidence with them, that we need time here. We want to make sure that we go where the facts lead us, but I think at the end of the day, this case will be resolved and the persons or person responsible for this will eventually be brought to justice.

KING: Mary, you're from the area. You know the district attorney?

FULGINITI: I don't, but years ago I did intern in that office when I was in college there in Boston, in their juvenile division. But I don't know her personally.

KING: Cincinnati, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.


CALLER: My question is for Mark Geragos. I would like to know how he thinks compares to the Scott Peterson case.

GERAGOS: I don't know. I guess when I hear the speculation, it's reminiscent in that people are assuming that it's the husband and you're getting the same kind of, "he doesn't act right evidence," if you will. Which seems to be greatly en vogue or greatly in fashion now. I also, I guess, would counsel the same way that I would before with Scott's case. Don't jump to conclusions. Wait and see what the facts are.

KING: Before we continue, let's check in with Anderson Cooper, who will host "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at the top of the hour. Looks like he's back on his home terrain. What's up tonight, Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Larry, thanks very much. Yes, we're going to have more on the Entwistle case. Exactly what do we know about Neil Entwistle and where exactly is he? We know he has left his parents home in England. Question is, where is he now? We'll have the latest on the case from that. We'll also talk to legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin about the possibilities for extradition and just how tough it is in past cases to get citizens from England back over to here, to the United States.

We'll also have the story of an NFL player who is telling all, a new book out about his life and the dark secret that he kept for years until now. Larry, that's the top of the hour.

KING: That's an extraordinary book. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at the top of the hour. We'll be back with more right after this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Surprising information about the couple has started to surface. Prosecutors say Neil was running a get rich quick Web site that showed customers how to start an Internet porn site. Another business they both ran on eBay was shut down when customers complained their goods weren't being delivered. Some Post- It Notes on the site called Rachel "a thieving liar."



KING: Cape Girardeau, Missouri, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. I'm wondering if it's possible to extradite him on a grand jury to subpoena to testify as opposed to being indicted.

KING: Mary? FULGINITI: Good question. You know?

KING: That's why she asked it.

FULGINITI: I don't believe so. I think -- it's my understanding, and Mark you may know this also, that in order to extradite, you have to generally have criminal charges. And it's a difficult proceeding and whether or not somebody is a citizen of the country can complicate it even further.

GERAGOS: As a rule, you cannot on a state court subpoena, extradite somebody from a foreign country.

KING: Is there any difficulty here in the fact that he is a British citizen?



KING: It further complicate it?

GERAGOS: It further complicates matters. Extradition is not by any means a slam dunk. It's certainly easier than extraditing somebody from France in certain instances, it's certainly easier than extraditing from Armenia, which has no extradition treaty.

KING: How many countries don't?

GERAGOS: Well, there's a number of them, and a number of countries, in fact, just recently in Mexico, they would not extradite if the death penalty was on the table.

KING: Because we did the death penalty.

GERAGOS: Because we did the death penalty, they would not allow extradition of people. That was recently changed.

KING: Salmon, Idaho, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry, how are you doing today?

KING: Fine.

CALLER: Now there was an interview that Neil Entwistle did today with a radio station in Philadelphia. It was on WYSP with the Kidd Chris Show. You guys familiar with that?

KING: ... hello.

CALLER: Yes, hi, Larry, good evening.


CALLER: I'd like to know, how did the husband learn of the news that his wife and baby are dead? KING: Do we know, Joe?

DWINELL: "The London Sun" is reporting that he called home allegedly and said he didn't remember how he got to England and is really Rachel and Lillian dead? We don't know if that is being held up or not. I don't know, that's what "The London Sun" is reporting.

KING: Well let's ask what is obvious. It was asked in the Peterson case, it's fair to ask here. While it's unfair to judge, why didn't he get concerned? Why didn't he scream and yell? Why didn't he go to the funeral? They're all correct why's, aren't they?

FULGINITI: Those are all very good questions and I think some of those are going to need to be answered. I mean, did he call his family when he landed in London? I would look at phone records to see. You know, if somebody was not involved in any activity, typically when they landed they would call home to let them know that everything was OK, they got there safely. Those are things that are going to be looked at by investigators in trying to determine whether or not Neil was involved or if it was really somebody else.

GERAGOS: You know, I had a case recently, whether last -- actually in November, another murder case where my client was charged and part of the evidence was that he had not gone to the funeral and it was a case involving an uncle and a nephew. His nephew had been killed.

And he had an explanation. He had also taken off and left the country and his explanation was, "Look, they were looking at me, they were focused on me, I didn't do it, but I wasn't about -- I didn't think I would get a fair shake." The murder charges in that case ended up being dismissed because, ultimately, they couldn't prove it. They couldn't prove the case. So I don't know that it's always what it at first blush appears to be.

KING: We'll take a break and we'll be back with more. Don't go away.


KING: Fountain Valley, California, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry, real quick. I understand they were supposed to have a dinner party on Saturday. If, in fact, he was going to leave to England, don't you think she would call and tell the people, we're not going to have the dinner anymore? Or if they were still alive prior to him leaving?

KING: Joe Dwinell?

DWINELL: Well the scenario could be, he had to go look for a job. We knew that. So maybe she was going to have friends over. I don't know. I'm not totally convinced that he had to call ahead.

KING: Is it true, Joe, that the family did not put the husband in the obituary? DWINELL: That's very true. They have left him out of the obituary, they have left him out of the wake, they have left him out of the funeral. He has been left out of everything.

KING: Now, Joe Flaherty, if they haven't made up their mind, why are they doing that?

FLAHERTY: Well, Larry, again, I think the family certainly want to keep their thoughts to themselves right now. They're sharing those thoughts certainly with the investigators and with the district attorney's office in this case.

But, until this case is resolved and, as Mark has already said, this case will rise or fall based on the facts of the case and nothing less. But they're confident that those facts will result in the arrest of whoever is responsible for this just total tragedy to this family.

KING: Dr. Lee, would there be any point in going to the crime scene now?

LEE: Yes. I think still have a lot that we can look at the crime scene to study the pattern of evidence, to try to look at because there's no indication of break entry. So that can be a very interesting thing we have to look at. We can look at maybe the mattress, how much blood soak in there, how long the blood coagulate. There's still some value of that.

KING: To Hilton Head, South Carolina, hello.

CALLER: Yes, hello, Larry. My question is primarily for Candice or Mary. Do either of you find it strange that he would take off and leave the wife and baby at home with no vehicle? I just think that that's strange that if something were to occur, that she wouldn't have any way of getting anywhere.

KING: Candice, good point.

DELONG: Well I don't know that that's a fact, but if it is a fact, that certainly is notable. How was she going to go to the grocery store or doctor, anything like that? I did not know that, but it is certainly something that makes me go, hmm.

KING: Mary?

FULGINITI: Yes, there's a lot of hmm's in this case. And you know, that's just one of many. And I think at the end of the day, you know, we're going to look at who had access to this house, because you want to figure out who had opportunity. And there wasn't, as Henry Lee has said, Dr. Lee, or didn't appear to be any forced entry.

KING: The most puzzling thing of all, who would kill a child?

FULGINITI: Well, I realize that, that is. But as we've heard.

KING: Who would kill a child? GERAGOS: It's just -- I think it's just incomprehensible. You've got a nine-month-old, I mean, that's just...

FULGINITI: ... you know, it is, but as we just heard last week, the gentlemen Michael Leign (ph), who came forward 15 years later, admitting to killing a child that was two-years-old because he was on methamphetamine and not in his right state of mind. So as much as it is puzzling and tragic, it, unfortunately, does happen.

GERAGOS: Doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

KING: Joe Flaherty, is the family optimistic about a successful result?

FLAHERTY: Yes, Larry, they're very optimistic and, you know, I would ask any of your listeners to continue praying for Rachel and Lily and the family as they get through all of this. But they are very confident that this, in the end, this will be solved and whoever's responsible will be held accountable for this tragedy.

KING: Joe Dwinell, make anything about the dog?

DWINELL: Well, it's curious. One more piece of the puzzle. Did the dog help the police try to identify the bodies? There is a car, it's a rented BMW, which is now in the Hopkinton Police Department. And it was a single car, as best we can tell.

KING: Thank you, all, very much, for an illuminating look at a puzzling topic. Joe Flaherty, Joe Dwinell, Dr. Henry Lee, Candice DeLong, Mark Geragos and Mary Fulginiti. And we'll continue to look at this, indeed Anderson Cooper's going to continue to look at it following this program.

Tomorrow night we're going to -- oh, boy, this is a tough kind of hour to do. Sunday night we'll repeat our interview with Jimmy Carter. Monday night we have a special guest, we cannot promote him, but I would suggest that you tune in on Monday night for what should be an extraordinary program.

Right now we're going to turn things over to New York where Anderson Cooper is standing by. He will host "A.C. 360" and you're going to hear a lot more about what we've just been talking about -- Anderson.