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CNN Larry King Live
Rosie/Donald Feud; Interview With Fred Goldman
Aired January 16, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight -- Donald Trump feuding with Rosie and with Barbara Walters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS: That poor, pathetic man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How long is this going to go on? Plus, exclusive, Ron Goldman's father, Fred Goldman, his first interview on "Newsweek" publishing chilling details on OJ Simpson's canceled book about the night OJ's ex-wife Nicole and her friend Fred's son, Ron Goldman, were brutally murdered. Plus OJ Simpson's side from his attorney.
And then new developments in the Missouri kidnapping case that shocked the nation and troubling questions about the road ahead of those two rescued boys. How they get their lives back and how will they face their alleged abductor in court? We will get answers from some experts. It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
We begin with Donald Trump. He's on the phone, the billionaire business mogul, best-selling author, star and executive producer of NBCs "The Apprentice." This year "The Apprentice" was based in Los Angeles and today he was honored with a star on the Hollywood walk of fame. Congratulations, Donald.
DONALD TRUMP: Thank you, Larry.
KING: Good having you with us. Great seeing you there.
TRUMP: It's great to be here and it was nice that you were there. It was really my great honor, Larry.
KING: And young Barron Trump, 9 years old, stole the show.
TRUMP: He did steal the show. That was his first really public appearance and he did very, very well.
KING: He was great. Let's move on to things current, the state of the feud. I want to get you up to date by showing the audience a videotape. Rosie and Barbara joined forces against you on "The View" after you had written Rosie a letter saying Barbara told you that she found working with Rosie is like living in hell.
TRUMP: Which Barbara never denied, by the way. KING: And Barbara - and you reported on this show, Barbara telling you that. But let's get a listen to the salvo and then get your reaction. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSIE O'DONNELL: Well, he's at it again. How about that, Barbara? Are you OK, Barbara?
WALTERS: I'm OK, darling. Are you OK?
O'DONNELL: I'm OK, too. We're both OK?
WALTERS: OK.
O'DONNELL: What can you say about that guy?
WALTERS: That poor, pathetic man.
O'DONNELL: Yes! Sister thing, give me a high-five! Whew! Whew! Whew!
WALTERS: You know, you just -- he just can't let go. But --
O'DONNELL: The man is obsessed with me. And I'm happy to say his show tanked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: OK, Donald, did you watch that?
TRUMP: No, but I saw a clip of it later. And it was sad because the way Barbara came about, it was a very sad day in her life, in my opinion. She looked at her notes. She read just what Rosie had scripted or Rosie it or one of the people at "The View" scripted it. And the way she said it, not looking at the camera, looking down at a cue card was really pathetic. And then Rosie, again, lied because as you know "The Apprentice" went on and won its half-hour time slot. It did very well. I can tell you NBC and everybody else is very happy with the ratings. But she always has to come out and say things that aren't true or certainly aren't even close to being true. It's just one of those things. I didn't know we were going to be doing the show on this. I thought you were going to be doing the show actually on the star, which I got because of the big ratings of "The Apprentice," but I didn't realize that you were doing the show on Rosie O'Donnell. But I guess that seems to be the topic that people want to talk about.
KING: Everyone was talking about it. We will be showing clips of you getting the well-deserved star on the walk of fame. But what do you make of Barbara? A longtime friend of yours, who when you called into this show from your airplane heading south, or we called you, was -- apparently had told you that she thought much less of Rosie. What do you make of this switch?
TRUMP: Barbara called me up. I didn't call her. She called me. And she said very negative things about Rosie. She does not like Rosie. She thinks Rosie is not much, believe me. I will tell you that, that is ready to blowup. They had a major, major fight in the greenroom, as you know and as you heard, they were having their makeup done, I guess and they ended up very close to coming to blows from what the story is. And I felt very badly for Barbara. I think Barbara actually is a pathetic case. I think she's ending her career much in the same way that Dan Rather ended his rather illustrious or semi-illustrious career. It's hard to be illustrious when you're number three in the ratings for your entire life almost.
But Barbara is ending her career in a very, very inauspicious way. To have Rosie pulling her strings like a puppet is not something that Barbara is used to and I can tell you, for a fact, is not something that Barbara likes. Barbara is very much a sad case. It was very sad to watch that. It wasn't just the words. It was the way they were delivered. She's looking down at her notes. She's looking -- and never looked at the camera. She said exactly what Rosie asked her to say. To me it was sad because Barbara was a friend of mine for a long period of time.
KING: All right. The letter you sent to Rosie talked pretty tough about Barbara. Reading in part --
TRUMP: You know, it wasn't tough about Barbara. It was just what Barbara said. When they went on "The View" and they made that just one, quick little segment, I was of the impression frankly that Barbara would try and dissect the letter. But Barbara never did dissect the letter, because she knows every single word of that letter is true and she knows that I have proof of that.
KING: And a letter also too that you sent to Rosie in which you said - we'll put the graphic up - (INAUDIBLE) she said that working with her is like living in hell and more pointedly, Donald never get into the mud with pigs and don't worry. She won't be here for long.
TRUMP: Well, Barbara knows she said that and I actually saw Barbara at Le Cirque about a couple of months ago and I said, how's it going with Rosie? And she just rolled her eyes and said, don't ruin my meal Donald. And Barbara's not having a good time right now, but it's sad that her career is perhaps ending on this and this will blow up between the two of them. I mean, Barbara's hanging in. She's doing the best - frankly, I'm probably the one that kept it going longer. And the reason their ratings are up is because of me. Take me out of the equation. Wait until you see their ratings dive. In a couple of weeks from now, when people stop asking me questions, including you Larry, about this slob, Rosie O'Donnell, wait until you see their ratings dive. Their ratings will dive like you've never seen, because the show is terrible. It's a terrible show and right now it's interesting because there's a whole big feud going on with Trump and Rosie. But wait until you see their ratings dive. And Rosie will leave and it won't be pretty and maybe Rosie will do her show and it'll start off fine and then like her last show, it'll dive in the ratings and be thrown off the air. She was thrown off the air. She was thrown out of Broadway. She had a Broadway show about a year ago that was a total failure, lost millions of dollars and her magazine was one of the biggest failures in the history of publishing. Her new show will fail also. KING: By the way, this is - about the last time I'll be asking you about it.
TRUMP: I hope so.
KING: Oh, I know so.
TRUMP: I really didn't know you were going to be talking about this.
KING: This will be the last time. In fact, I'm going to move to some other things in a minute.
TRUMP: Good.
KING: One other thing, you issued a statement in part saying Barbara Walters has taken the low road for the sake of her show, rather than her morality. She lied with Star Jones and now she's chosen to lie again.
TRUMP: Well, look, everybody knows that Barbara lied with Star Jones. That's been a proven fact and now she's lied again and you know, Barbara lied to me once many years ago. I went through a period of about four or five years where I didn't speak to Barbara because she did something that was not truthful. So Barbara's been out there. Barbara's not an innocent lamb. But it thought it was very sad to watch Barbara utter those words. I thought it was sad and in fact, I thought it was sad and pathetic.
KING: We'll take a break and when we come back, we'll ask Donald about some other things. Donald Trump, the host of "The Apprentice," Donald Trump who got his star today on the Hollywood walk of fame. In fact, we'll be showing you a clip of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We would have thought this was going to happen. I've gotten a lot of awards for the building business, but never for the entertainment business and "The Apprentice" has just become this great success and I'm really honored by it and to be honored on the walk of fame has been terrific as far as I'm concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We need a negotiator. We don't need sound bites. We don't need people walking off planes, waving, sitting with a dictator, waving, getting back on the plane, waving and nothing happens. We need negotiators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We are back with Donald Trump. He was referring to Condi Rice. You don't think she is a negotiator, Donald?
TRUMP: I think she is a lovely woman. I think she is a very fine person. But we need people that know how to negotiate. We need our best and our brightest negotiators. Condi Rice gets off a plane and she waves and she sits down and she says hello to everybody and she leaves and nothing ever happens. We need killer negotiators. You know, we have -- I could name 10 great negotiators in this country -- and there aren't that many, to be honest with you. It's not like it's an easy thing. It's like being a great golfer. It's like being a great baseball player. There aren't very many. But I can name 10 to 15 to 20 great, great negotiators that if we had our lives in their hands in terms of some of these crummy deals that we are making or non deals, which is almost worse, we would be doing very well.
When you look at the trade imbalances, when you look at China and all of these countries taking advantage of the United States like we are a bunch of jerks, we don't have our people negotiating. We don't have our best people doing our negotiating for us. We have a bunch of lightweights. We have of a bunch of diplomats that's have no interest whatsoever in anything but preserving their job. And this country is really going down rapidly. This country is not the force that it was 10, 15 and 20 years ago.
KING: Are you still very critical of President Bush?
TRUMP: Look, I think the war is a total catastrophe and it's only going to get worse now that he's sending 21,000 more troops. It's not going to mean a thing. The fact is, Larry, when those troops pull out the meanest, most vicious man, the smartest man in Iraq, the smartest, toughest, most vicious guy is going to take over and they are going to all have one thing in common -- their hatred of the United States. So it's just -- I have been universally against the war right from the beginning. We have problems. You have Iran doing nuclear weapons. You have North Korea building nuclear weapons and laughing at the United States. We say, are you building weapons? Yes, we are. What are you going to do about it? And we are mired in Iraq. Now it's just absolutely outrageous. You saw the way the hangings were handled.
KING: Yeah.
TRUMP: This is a terrible situation this country is in and we've got to get out fast. But I'm not just talking about that. I'm talking about trade negotiations, other negotiations. It's a joke. And the world is laughing at us, Larry.
KING: You once thought of running for president. Ever think about it again?
TRUMP: People wanted me to very strongly and I decided I didn't want to do it. I sort of enjoy what I'm doing and I continue to enjoy what I'm doing. I have never had more fun. And then to cap it off with a star on the walk of fame today was just a lot of fun. And, you know, it's just -- it's just very sad to me what's happening with this country in terms of world and in terms of world perception.
KING: What is the latest on our reigning Miss USA, Tara Connor? You did give her a second chance. How is she doing?
TRUMP: She's doing fine. She's still in rehab. She comes out in about a week and I think, from what every report I get, she's really done a good job. She's been working at it very hard. She's going to set a great example for a lot of people -- young and old in all fairness that have problems with alcohol and just general substance abuse. But Tara is doing very well. She comes out in a week. I think she will set a great example for a lot of people.
KING: You did not give Miss Nevada, however, a second chance.
TRUMP: I looked at pictures. If you looked at those pictures, Larry, it would have been very, very hard. I felt badly about it because I really feel strongly that people are entitled to second chances and in some cases third chances. But the fact is that I just -- there was just nothing I could do. The pictures were at a level where it would not have been possible.
KING: The 2007 Miss USA pageant will be held in Los Angeles March 23. Are these profitable?
TRUMP: Yes, they are. They do very well. In fact one of the things that a certain person said -- well, the big one is Miss America. Miss America has been relegated to a small cable channel, not a big one like CNN but a small cable channel. And, frankly, we are doing very good ratings on NBC primetime. I own, as you know, I own Miss USA and I also own the Miss Universe contest. They do really great ratings. It will be interesting to see what the ratings are for Miss USA this time. But we are doing it from Los Angeles. We have fantastic judges and it's going to be a great evening. You want to come?
KING: I will come.
TRUMP: All right. You come as my guest. You'll sit next to me.
KING: I will sit next to you and we will take a break and be back and spend a few more minutes with Donald Trump. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Those who accuse the Donald of acting like a child can also say he looks like one -- his own.
TRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) she loves that. She goes like this, a little flick of her wrist, and Barron has a comb over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Thanks to Jeanne Moos for that brilliant look at young Barron. How are you doing, dad?
TRUMP: I'm enjoying it. You know something about this, too, Larry. KING: Yes.
TRUMP: Having young children at our stage of the game, to me it's been great, and you really appreciate it.
KING: Are you a better father? You were a good father all the time, right?
TRUMP: I think I was always a good father. I have great children and I was always a good father.
KING: Your children were with you today.
TRUMP: They were.
KING: On this "Apprentice" thing, are you going to go to other cities?
TRUMP: It seems like we like it. I did this one from Los Angeles and Mark Burnett came up with this idea, along with NBC, to move it. We did -- it actually became the number one show on television for a good period of time and continues to do very well. Frankly, I like it. We are thinking about Miami for the next one, maybe Las Vegas for another one, Chicago for another one. So they are really thinking in terms of different cities and moving it a little bit like "Survivor." Every week, every year, they have a different jungle.
KING: "Saturday Night Live" had some fun with you on Saturday night.
TRUMP: I heard about that.
KING: Let's run this clip. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" FROM NBC: Who has a question about "The Apprentice"? Yes?
Mr. Trump, how has it been working with your daughter Ivanka on this season's "Apprentice"?
Working with my daughter has been a huge joy for her and I think we make a real -- and I think we make a real champion-style team. I tell you who would be a loser on any team, that Sasquatch, Rosie O'Donnell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That guy does you pretty good.
TRUMP: He does.
KING: How long is this going to do on?
TRUMP: What are you talking about?
KING: The O'Donnell thing --
TRUMP: As long as people like you keep asking the question.
KING: I'm done with it.
TRUMP: But as long as you keep asking the question Larry, it will go on. I get up and I do the "Today" show a week ago. Meredith Vieira, who I love, first question is Rosie O'Donnell. Second question is what do you think of this or that, Rosie O'Donnell. Third question, why are you talking about Rosie O'Donnell? I said I don't want to talk about her but you ask me questions. And the she said, well, but it's the biggest story, it's the biggest story. We have no choice. As long as you keep asking me questions, what am I going to do? Say I don't want to talk about that. I told you that before the show. I said, let's not talk about the slob. And you said, well we have to. And it's been a crazy thing. It's a thing that just doesn't want to die. As far as I'm concerned it's dead except that every time I do an interview, not only with you, Larry, but with anybody else, they keep asking me about the question.
KING: Except you're famous for never ducking. You could have said, I don't want to talk about it.
TRUMP: You knew that before the show started, Larry.
KING: I don't think we even talked about it. But I figured this would be the finit (ph) tonight. But you could always say I don't want to talk about it.
TRUMP: Well, I could say that, except I see all you have is clips of Rosie and she's not a pretty picture. I'm looking at it right now. This is not a pretty picture.
KING: Donald, admit it, are you having some fun with this?
TRUMP: Yeah, I do have fun. Look. She attacked me. I attacked her back in spades and I'm sure she can take it. Although what did surprise me is her attack on Barbara Walters when they were having their makeup put on. That shows that maybe it is getting to her to a large extent. But she went totally wild in the make up room, and frankly I was very happy to hear that.
KING: Any chance of a rapprochement? I think it's gone too far, right?
TRUMP: Zero chance. Is there such a thing as less than zero, Larry? But there doesn't have to be. There doesn't have to be. There are a lot of people in the world, a lot of good people, a lot of really good people and a lot of bad people, but you don't have to get along with everybody. Somebody said, why did this thing - because nobody ever remembers anything that got carried on so long. Normally a thing like this is a one-day feud and maybe somebody writes about it. They said why didn't did it get carried -- I said because I wasn't politically correct. I said what everybody else thinks. I watched a little while ago a politician just talking about another politician that's running against him. He was so nice toward the other politician. I said I just can't stand watching -- it's called political correctness and I don't like watching it. I think the reason this thing just got carried away is, when you call somebody a degenerate, like I called Rosie, when you say that she's not a smart person, and call her lots of terrible names, people don't hear that anymore because politicians are so politically correct. Maybe we shouldn't be politically correct. I went to the Wharton school of finance. I was a great student. I know exactly what I have to do, what I can do. But as Barbara told me, when you get into the mud with pigs, you have to really sort of sling it a little bit.
KING: By the way, does this happen in the business world? Are their feuds like this?
TRUMP: Absolutely.
KING: There are?
TRUMP: Absolutely. Much worse.
KING: Really?
TRUMP: Yeah, much worse, Larry. Rosie is easy. She's just less attractive than most businessmen I deal with.
KING: Donald, thank you so much. Again, congratulations. You were great today and I will see you on the 23rd.
TRUMP: I look forward to it, Larry and thank you very much.
KING: Donald Trump. Again, the Miss USA pageant will come to Los Angeles in March.
When we come back -- "Newsweek" magazine went public this week with the contents of OJ Simpson's unpublished book, that unpublished OJ Simpson book that we have all been talking about. Find out what Ron Goldman's father Fred has to say right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Why do you never say his name?
FRED GOLDMAN: Yeah, it's just a disgusting piece to me. It's filth on my mouth. He's a piece of garbage, as I have said over and over again. I don't want to dirty my mouth with his name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOLDMAN: I loved my son dearly. And we will miss him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: This part of our show is about the latest chapter in the saga of OJ Simpson's unreleased book titled "If I Did It." Joining me now from Phoenix is Fred Goldman, the father of murder victim Ron Goldman. Thoughts when's you found out, you found out Fred, that "Newsweek" magazine had apparently obtained a copy of OJ's unpublished book "If I Did It." What did you think?
GOLDMAN: Frankly, I have a concern that any portion of it is out and about. I was happy to hear from "Newsweek" that they had no plans to publish any portion of it. But the fact that it's out there at all, frankly, is disturbing.
KING: Did you read "Newsweek"?
GOLDMAN: No, I read "Newsweek," yes.
KING: What did you -- we will quote some highlights of it, but overall, what did you make?
GOLDMAN: You know, what I found interesting in the article is -- and in conversation with "Newsweek" is that for the most part, it suggests that all of the evidence in the criminal trial was affirmed and the killer certainly didn't disagree with any of it. If anything, he suggested almost the reason why he found it necessary to murder Ron. He was jealous and thought that Ron was there to -- to meet with Nicole. The bottom line is, he certainly didn't suggest in any way that he didn't commit the crime.
KING: Here's what "Newsweek" said that he wrote: June 12th, 1994. Simpson attended daughter Sidney's dance recital and is in a foul mood afterwards because of the behavior of his ex-wife. He races to Nicole's Bundy Drive condominium, parks in a dark alley behind the condo, dons the knit wool cap and the gloves that he keeps handy to ward off the chill on the golf course. He has a knife in his Ford Bronco, protection against what he calls LA crazies. He intends to scare Nicole, enters through a broken back gate, encounters Ron Goldman who's returning the glasses belonging to Nicole's mother which had been left at the restaurant Mezzaluna, where Ron worked. O.J. accuses Ron of planning a sexual encounter with Nicole. Ron denies it. Ron's fate is sealed when Nicole's dog emerges and gives Ron a friendly tail-wag. Simpson screams at Ron, "you've been here before!" Simpson reportedly writes that Nicole came at him like a banshee, loses her balance, falls hard, her head cracks against the ground. Ron assumes a karate stance, which further angers Simpson, who then dares Ron to fight.
In the book, Simpson writes, then something went horribly wrong, and I know what happened, but I can't tell you exactly how."
By the way, did Ron practice karate?
GOLDMAN: Not that I'm aware of. Not that I'm aware of, no.
KING: That scenario, logic to you? GOLDMAN: Yes, actually, it is. Whether or not the whole jealousy thing, you know, was involved, I don't know, but the reality is, without question it's possible. It fits the scenario that was suggested during the trial. And it also suggests, without question, that he committed the murders. The exact thing that we've always believed.
KING: He -- O.J. told "Newsweek" that when the proposal for a book was brought to him, he implored the publishers not to include what he called the created half-chapter about the killings. Simpson says the publishers told him it was the hook that would sell the book. What do you make of that?
GOLDMAN: Well, I don't doubt that at all. Disgusting as it might be. But on the other hand, he had a choice. He could have said no, and that would have been the end of it, but he chose to say yes, obviously, and went ahead with it and took his money.
KING: We will hear from O.J.'s attorney, Yale Galanter, in a while, but he reportedly said last week that the rights to the book have already or will soon revert to Simpson. Does your lawyer plan to seize Simpson's legal rights to -- are you going to get involved legally?
GOLDMAN: Well, absolutely. First of all, the rights do not belong to him at the moment. And it's our intention to make sure that he doesn't get the rights. And I don't want to see that book published at all. And we will, without question, pursue it and try to make certain that, if anything, we get the rights and make sure he doesn't.
KING: How do you know he doesn't have the rights?
GOLDMAN: Well, according to the contract, the rights don't revert to him as of yet, and they don't revert to him until no sooner than approximately a year from now -- or later this year, I should say. That's the earliest that they could revert to him at all, on the assumption that they will.
KING: If you got the rights, what would you do with them?
GOLDMAN: Make sure no one else touches it and make sure no one else publishes the book.
KING: You never want that in print.
GOLDMAN: I don't want to ever see it in print, frankly. If, frankly, at this point, the only thing that seems to be coming of this is that it's a reaffirmation of his guilt. But the fact is, he's been rewarded for writing the book, and I don't need to give him in any way any more publicity than he takes.
KING: Does the article in "Newsweek" give you any kind of closure?
GOLDMAN: No, it never will. KING: No?
GOLDMAN: Closure never comes. I'm reminded of on an everyday basis that Ron was stolen from us, was murdered. Every day is a constant reminder of the things that Ron could not continue in his life and the things that we will never be able to share with Ron.
KING: The $800,000 or maybe more that O.J. was paid for the book, do you have any plans to try and get that money from him?
GOLDMAN: Absolutely. We have action at -- right now against the killer and also Lorraine Brook (ph), the shell company that was formed to receive the fraudulent conveyance of money. And there's no question that that company was formed precisely for getting the money from Regan Books, ultimately to the killer.
On the one hand, the killer says he did it for his children, for their education. On the other hand, he -- he actually has stated that he paid tax obligations with it and bills. So we know he received the money. He has as much as admitted to it.
KING: Do you know where it is?
GOLDMAN: Well, there's, without question, he has it stashed away in some bank account somewhere. He has -- I would not think he spent it all. He's found a way to bury it someplace, you know, in the same way he's done everything else sneaky in his life.
KING: We will be right back with some more moments with Fred Goldman on this never-ending saga. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury in the above-entitled action find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is this your verdict, so say you one, so say you all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, the defendant, having been acquitted of both charges, he's ordered transported to an appropriate facility and released forthwith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show that to the jury, Mr. Simpson. Thank you.
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, ATTORNEY: O.J. Simpson in a knit cap from two blocks away is still O.J. Simpson. It's no disguise. It's no disguise. It makes no sense. It doesn't fit. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We are back with Fred Goldman. He's in Phoenix, Arizona. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE, the details of a portion of a book that has not been published, released in "Newsweek" magazine.
"Newsweek," by the way, Fred, did not print the chapter. They print the writer's quotes from the chapter. Do you like that better than printing the chapter?
GOLDMAN: Absolutely, and I'm thrilled that they didn't print the whole chapter.
KING: What, Fred, in court did you win?
GOLDMAN: Pardon me?
KING: When you won the civil case, the verdict was what? What did you win?
GOLDMAN: Well, we certainly won the judgment. The court found him responsible of Ron and Nicole's deaths. Something we always believed. And we received, I believe, our share of the judgment was about $19 million, which at this point with interest has virtually doubled.
KING: Have you ever gotten a penny?
GOLDMAN: No. He's never willingly paid any amount of that judgment. There was a small -- small amount of moneys that were distributed from the sheriff's auction of some of the property that they sold off of the killer's. But in terms of the killer, no, he's never, ever paid a dime of the judgment.
KING: You can't touch his football pension, right?
GOLDMAN: Well, it's supposedly covered by law. One of those many laws that one wonders why it exists, if we protect the money of a killer so that he can continue his life of luxury.
KING: And Florida is kind of a garnishing-proof state, isn't it?
GOLDMAN: Florida has a lot of laws that make it a great place for someone like the killer to go and protect his money and make sure that he doesn't have to pay portions of his judgment, or any of it, for that matter.
KING: What did you make of Judith Regan being dismissed by HarperCollins?
GOLDMAN: You know what, it's disgusting that she ever put the book out there at all. But I think ultimately, she paid a price for doing it. It's surprising to me on one hand because those are the kinds of books she's always done.
KING: Rupert Murdoch publicly apologized to you. Did he ever call you? GOLDMAN: No, no. I know he said it was an ill-conceived project. There was -- I would certainly agree with him in that sense. But I think it was News Corp's goal to generate a lot of income from it and when they found out that the American public in its single voice of rejection found it disgusting, I think they did what they had to do, and that was pull it.
KING: O.J. told the Associated Press' Linda Deutsch, "I'm saying it's a fictional creation. It has so many holes in it. Anybody who knew anything about it would know that I didn't right it.?
Thoughts?
GOLDMAN: Well, from everything I've heard, the holes don't exist. He seems to, as I said -- as I was told by "Newsweek", that virtually everything in that chapter is -- is the same, if not similar, to everything that was brought forth in terms of evidence during the criminal trial. So what holes he's talking about, one doesn't know.
KING: He said he doesn't have a copy of the book, that he shredded it. Do you believe him?
GOLDMAN: No, I don't believe anything that ever comes out of his mouth. Except perhaps for this one thing, I think he's proved to the world that he's committed the crimes, or at least maybe a few people that were still in doubt.
KING: Why do you never say his name?
GOLDMAN: It's just a disgusting piece of me. It's filth in my mouth. And he's a piece of garbage, as I've said over and over again and I don't want to dirty my mouth with his name.
KING: You know, there are reports he's doing a new book about life with Nicole. What do you make of that?
GOLDMAN: I guess it's another "How to Beat Up Your Wife" book. Life with Nicole, is he going to tell us how he beat her up on a day- to-day basis? I can't even imagine, you know, that someone else would now, what, decide that's a good idea? Beyond amazing to me.
KING: Always good seeing you, Fred. Hang tough.
GOLDMAN: Thank you, Larry. I appreciate it.
KING: Fred Goldman, the father of murder victim Ron Goldman.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
We'll be back with more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Joining us now from Miami is Yale Galanter. He is O.J. Simpson's attorney. The article in "Newsweek" is headlined "Evidence of Guilt?" with a question mark.
Is it?
YALE GALANTER, ATTORNEY FOR O.J. SIMPSON: I don't think it is. Everything contained in the article, Larry, is information that was publicly available. It was all information that's in the trial transcripts. And it is -- I know for a fact that it's information that the ghostwriter was able to get publicly.
KING: The narrative -- Mark Miller in "Newsweek" says, "The narrative is as revolting as one might expect, also surprisingly revealing. What emerges from the chapter is something new in the nearly 13-year Simpson sage: a seeming confession in Simpson's own voice."
How do you react?
GALANTER: Well, there is nothing new in Mark Miller's piece or in the chapter itself. As a matter of fact, the chapter is devoid of any facts about the murder at all. The chapter goes through a fictional account of things leading up to the murder that were in the trial and another fictional account of things afterwards. But the actual killings and the murders are not mentioned in the book at all.
KING: What about the friend Charlie?
GALANTER: Well, the friend Charlie, I think is a figment of the ghostwriter's imagination because I think everybody's in agreement that there was not a second person at the trial -- at the crime scene.
KING: But, Yale, if you do a book with a ghostwriter, aren't you responsible for what the ghostwriter -- he's ghosting for you?
GALANTER: I -- Larry, listen, I couldn't agree with you more. I thought that the book was in horrible taste. I was out of the loop on the book. I would have never approved it. And my law firm would have never been behind it.
That being said, O.J. has said publicly that it was very distasteful to him and the only reason he agreed to this chapter was because it was part of his contractual obligation for Harper and Regan to do this deal.
KING: Now, Mark Miller says, "What is striking about the chapter I read is how closely it tracks with the evidence of the case -- and how clearly Simpson invokes the classical language wife abuser. In his crude, expletive-laced account, Simpson suggests Nicole all but drove him to kill her. He describes her as the 'enemy'."
Would you agree, Yale, that the public, if they're into this, is regarding this as a factual confession?
GALANTER: Yes, but it really isn't. I mean, there's nothing in the chapter or in Mark's piece that's new. In other words, there isn't a single fact -- as a matter of fact, there are a number of facts that are wrong. To give you an example, he -- you know, the book states that the back latched gate was broken. Well, it wasn't. I mean, it was a well-known fact that it was the front gate that was broken and there was nothing wrong with the back gate. So there are a number of factual errors. And if there was a new tidbit, if there was a new revelation in the chapter, then I would agree. But it isn't. It's all stuff that was a matter of public record.
KING: Why did he do this, Yale?
GALANTER: Money, strictly money. They came to him with this offer. He wanted to provide a legacy for his children. You know, let's keep in mind, he is a single father. He's basically unemployable. He's putting two kids through college.
And don't get me wrong, I am not justifying what he did in doing this project, Larry, but I can certainly understand when a major company like Harper comes to him and says, "Look, I'm going to pay you $800,000. We're going to write this book. Sign off on it." So he did it.
KING: Being totally protected by double jeopardy, in that he could come forward and confess, do you think he'll ever gain public image unless someone else is found?
GALANTER: O.J. -- Larry, I talked to O.J. about this all the time. And I can tell you 100 percent that he tells everybody and every word that comes out of his mouth is professing his innocence.
KING: So he continues to say that. But the public doesn't buy it, you agree?
GALANTER: Well, I think -- you know, I agree that the majority of the public doesn't buy it, but there's still a large segment of the American population who believes that the criminal trial reached a just verdict.
KING: What's his life like, Yale?
GALANTER: Well, you know, he is very close with the children, contrary to reports. And, you know, it's basically what you've read. He gets up, he plays golf, spends time with the kids when they're in town. As you know, they're both in school now. And, you know, is in bed relatively early because he plays at 6:30, 7:00 in the morning. But that's pretty much his social life. He's really a home body. He's home early and he plays a lot of golf.
KING: Yale, I hope we can call on you again.
GALANTER: You can.
Thanks, Larry.
KING: Thank you. Look forward to seeing you down in Miami.
Yale Galanter, the attorney for O.J. Simpson.
When we come back, the newest developments in that fascinating case of the two kidnapped Missouri boys. We don't have a lot of time, but we'll ask experts what the boys might face as far as readjusting to everyday lives, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG AKERS, STEPFATHER OF SHAWN HORNBECK: We think we found Shawn. We're 95 percent sure that we found Shawn and that he's alive, and those were the sweetest words that I ever heard in my life.
WILLIAM OWNBY, FATHER OF EN OWNBY: It's surreal, like it didn't really happen. It still hasn't really set him for him or us, I don't think. But it is. It's starting to. We dodged a bullet here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We have a limited amount of time. We'll try to cover as much as we can of the Missouri matter.
In St. Louis is Aisha Sultan, who's been covering the story of Shawn Hornbeck.
San Francisco has Marc Klaas, whose 12 year-old daughter, Polly, was abducted and murdered in Los Angeles.
Here with us Dr. Drew Pinsky, M.D., known to millions as Dr. Drew, radio and TV host.
And in San Francisco is Candice Delong, a former FBI profiler.
Aisha, what's the latest?
AISHA SULTAN, "ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH": Well, Ben Stanley (ph) came out and said today that they are not pushing for answers, that they're ecstatic that he's back. He's acting like Ben again. And they're going to let him talk about whatever he wants to talk about in his own time.
KING: Anything new on Shawn?
SULTAN: No, nothing new on Shawn yet.
KING: Marc, how long is this going to take, rehab-wise for Shawn?
MARC KLAAS, KLAASKIDS FOUNDER: Well, I think it's going to an awful long time. He's going to need a lot of love from his family. He's going to need a lot of understanding. He's going to need support from the community. He'll need some inner strength to understand that it's not his fault. And he'll certainly some intensive counseling.
But you know what? Elizabeth Smart came back. She's a lovely young child and I think Shawn can come back as well.
KING: Drew? DR. DREW PINSKY, RADIO HOST: He's absolutely right. It just takes a lot of work. And the one thing I was encouraged by when I heard the family's news meeting this afternoon, they were saying they want to get him help, they're listening to what the therapists are saying and they realize it's going to take a long, long time. These kinds of very intensive and sort of really intensive, long-standing traumas can have lifelong effects on someone.
KING: What's your read on why he -- on thoughts, on conjecture on why he didn't run away?
PINSKY: Well, you know, it's almost impossible to imagine, isn't it? But the reality is it's very easy to control somebody who's vulnerable. And the fact is victimizers have this uncanny availability to pick out people who are great victims. And they apply just unbelievable techniques in their ability to get at these people and control them. Some of the things -- you know, some neglect, some abuse, anything like that can set somebody up to freeze and not be able to come to their defense and be easily manipulated by someone.
KING: Stockholm Syndrome?
PINSKY: It can be kind of a Stockholm Syndrome type of thing. But everybody has their own vulnerability. And these victimizers have an uncanny ability to play upon that.
KING: Candice, FBI profiler, psychiatric nurse, do you buy what Dr. Pinsky says?
CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Yes. And I would only add that one of the things that has been observed over the years of victims that are involved in the prosecution of the accused is that actually it's very therapeutic for them in their recovery and progression from the traumatic event.
KING: Aisha, how are the parents doing?
SULTAN: The parents are still stunned. They feel like they dodged a bullet and, yet, they have immense, immense relief.
KING: This is awfully tough on them, isn't it, Marc?
KLAAS: Well, no. Listen, it's awfully tough to find out that your kid is dead or to never have any kind of closure. But to have your child return alive lifts a huge weight off of your shoulders and relieves you of all of that fear and all of that anger.
KING: But don't you wonder what life was like for him?
KLAAS: Of course, you do. I mean, and life is not good under any circumstances. Nobody would want to be Shawn Hornbeck right now. But you know what? His father, Craig Akers, did an absolutely marvelous job and I think he's going to be just a fabulous advocate for this young man. And I think if this guy's got a shot, you know, if this kid's got a shot, these are the people that are going to help him through it. PINSKY: Larry, this very much changes how these kids minds are going to develop, how their brains actually are going to develop. And if the family gets behind them and the kids commit to treatment, that brain issue can be reintegrated, refigured is such a way that these kids can regulate their feelings again, trust other people and engage in stable relationships.
KING: He didn't go to school, Shawn. So what did he learn in four years?
PINSKY: In those four years, he didn't learn the things we normally learn in school. That's for sure. And he needs to go back. He needs to reengage in life. Listen, the fact is he was a prisoner during those four years and he was being terrorized during that time. And he became the victim of chronic terror. That has an effect on someone's nervous system. In order for him to be able to function socially, in order to be able to go back and trust other people is going to take a lot of work. And what, again -- what I admire is these families are open to that, they're not unrealistic. They're not saying, "Boy, it's all over. Thank God, he's back."
Which, Marc Klaas, of course, you would much rather have that. But these are treatable conditions. And they must be treated, or this will have lifelong effects.
KING: Candice, do you put them in school, especially Shawn? Do you put them in school soon?
DELONG: Well, they certainly have to take their cues from Shawn. He's going to have to learn to deal with unkind comments that may be made by other children. But --so perhaps some homeschooling in the beginning. But Shawn will know in that regard what's best for him. Certainly wouldn't want to delay it too much. On the other hand, to force him into something too soon wouldn't be a good idea, either.
KING: Aisha, are we learning anything more about the accused?
SULTAN: So far we have learned that he owned a parcel of property, a vacant property in Washington County about 20 minutes from where Shawn was abducted. So the sheriff's office there is saying, "Well, there's a link right there."
KING: Marc Klaas, you got any read on him?
KLAAS: Well, you know what? He went after a 11 year-old boy four years ago. He went after a very immature looking 13 year-old boy now. And if he were back on the street in four years, he'd be doing it again. This guy is predisposed, obviously, towards young pre- pubescent boys.
KING: Pedophiles are incurable, Dr. Pinsky, is that the general theory?
PINSKY: Well, I wouldn't say that. I would say that they are treatable. I think that the impulses are chronically there. And they really are -- one of the extraordinary sort of moral and philosophical problems we have with dealing with cases like this is that these kids, whom our hearts are going out for right now, have about a 60 percent chance of being perpetrators themselves. It is the victims of abuse that become perpetrators. And the key here is get help before you hurt someone or some else. That's the key, that those things can be contained in a proper therapeutic context.
KING: We're out of time. I promise a lot more, of course, on all of this. And we'll be having all of you back.
We wish nothing but the best to the families, and hopefully justice be done.
That's it for tonight's edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Let's head to New York. Anderson Cooper stands by "A.C. 360".
What's on dock tonight, Anderson?
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