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CNN Larry King Live
What Killed Anna Nicole Smith?
Aired February 12, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the name Anna Nicole Smith sparking controversy in the Bahamas over published photos of her with the minister of immigration.
Another photo shows her fridge full of Methadone and Slim-Fast.
What's next and what's going on with the tug of war over her million dollar baby?
We're in the Bahamas with the latest.
But first, exclusive, Anna Nicole's best friend for years. She says Anna Nicole wanted her to be godmother to both her kids and she's angry at Anna Nicole's partner, Howard K. Stern, and she'll tell us why.
And it's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
We begin with the Anna Nicole Smith's good friend for many, many years, Jackie Hatten.
She is a professional athlete, professional volleyball player, is coached by Olympic coaches, has played collegiate basketball, as well.
How did you and Anna Nicole become friends?
JACKIE HATTEN, LONGTIME FRIEND OF ANNA NICOLE SMITH: We met at a day spa. And everybody kept saying how much we look alike. And so one day when I saw her, she came out and wanted to be my friend. So I said sure, why not?
KING: How long has this gone on?
HATTEN: I've known her for 16 years.
KING: Wow!
HATTEN: Yes. She was like a sister to me, so it's really hard to lose someone -- especially two friends that you've known so close, like Daniel, whom she asked me to be godmother of -- in, what, four months, five months? I've lost both people.
KING: So even when she would be somewhere else and you here, you'd keep in constant touch? HATTEN: Most of the time, yes.
KING: Where were you when you found out about her death?
HATTEN: I was on the phone with her mother, believe it or not, and we both viewed it on the television.
KING: The TV was on?
HATTEN: Yes, the TV was on...
KING: She had your TV on and you had your TV on?
HATTEN: Yes.
KING: Remember what you were talking about...
HATTEN: And she said change the channel, baby. And I was like, why?
And she -- her demeanor changed and -- and then my boyfriend walked in and changed the channel and said, you know, look. And that's when we saw what happened.
KING: Was there disbelief?
HATTEN: Complete disbelief. I just dropped the phone and started bawling and I knew this was going to happen. But I didn't think so soon.
KING: You knew it was going to happen...
HATTEN: Yes...
KING: ... meaning you knew she wasn't going to lead a full life?
HATTEN: Yes. I tried warning...
KING: Because?
HATTEN: ... everyone. I tried warning everyone.
KING: About?
HATTEN: About Howard, Howard's behavior toward my friend.
KING: His behavior would affect the length of her life?
HATTEN: Definitely.
KING: How?
HATTEN: Because I have seen him -- I've witnessed Howard give her Vicodin, Valium, Vinegrin (ph), morphine, Demerol -- shall I go on? I mean it's too much for someone to take over a period of time. That's considered aggravated death, you know what I'm saying? Acclaimed effect over the years, whether he gave it to her the last second or not, it's just not acceptable.
KING: Would your guess be that the final results of the autopsy would show that?
HATTEN: I'm sure it will. That's my opinion.
KING: Why would she do -- why was he giving her that? He was supposed to care for her a great deal. What...
HATTEN: My friend became his cash cow. I witnessed her become a cash cow to him. There were -- she was the sole breadwinner and that family basically he had taken her cases on a contingency basis. Nothing was ever won. The money that he did make from the show or anything else that he handled from her, that was all from her.
Everything was his celebrity and his fame -- his money all came on her back.
KING: Would you guess that she might have been a suicide?
HATTEN: No way. She's about to get a yacht. She's always wanted to have a yacht.
Why would she go and kill herself when she's going down to buy a yacht?
It doesn't make any sense. She's also in a...
KING: She's got a new daughter...
HATTEN: She's also in the casino and she's drinking and having a good time, but she's going to go commit suicide?
I rule out suicide completely.
But if you want to say something about the daughter, why, when Dannielynn Hope is the only thing that keeps her happy, the only thing that keeps her alive, why take her away from her? Why?
If you're a true friend, you would leave her with her baby.
KING: Who took her away?
HATTEN: Howard took her to Florida to buy a yacht.
Can the boat not wait? I mean my friend's health and sanity is the most important thing here, in my opinion.
KING: Do you have any thought on the contents of the refrigerator -- Methadone and Slim Fast?
HATTEN: I told you things were around all the time. I would not be surprised that that was in her refrigerator, no.
KING: We have an e-mail from Karen in Sheboygan, Wisconsin: "Why, for so long, did people ignore the fact that Anna was on something? The signs were obvious. Why didn't her supposed friends confront her, get her help?"
HATTEN: We did. We did. We tried. She did go...
KING: And?
HATTEN: She did go in 1995 to rehab. When you have people saying please don't take this, don't take this, but you have someone going here, mamma, take it mamma, I'll take it with you, as Howard did -- you know, I've witnessed way too much of that and that is what killed my friend, in my opinion.
KING: Did she love Howard?
HATTEN: Not like -- not like he's saying. She liked him as a person that handled her affairs so that she did not have to handle them. He kept her so drugged up, she was in bed 24-7 until there was a show, give her some uppers and get her up for the show so she can make some money, you know?
She didn't care for him like that. He used to walk behind us carrying our bags, OK? He would carry our purse.
KING: Yours, too?
HATTEN: Yes, mine, too. He would answer questions when we were at a party when we were too busy to talk, OK?
KING: Did you talk to Anna...
HATTEN: This person was her attorney and legal adviser because she didn't know how to handle her legal mumbo jumbo...
KING: Well...
HATTEN: ... and he'd handle it for her.
KING: Did you talk to your good friend about him?
HATTEN: Yes, I did.
KING: Did you ask her why she stayed with him?
HATTEN: And she said don't worry, he can handle the things I can't handle. He can handle that legal mumbo jumbo. I don't know how. Don't worry. I've got it covered. He's fine. He's fine. He's harmless.
But he wasn't harmless because both of my friends are dead.
KING: You think he's the father of the baby?
HATTEN: No, I do not. When you ask her...
KING: Who do you think is?
HATTEN: Larry Birkhead is what she told me. And the time line is...
KING: She did?
HATTEN: Yes, she did. And the time line...
KING: What did she say?
HATTEN: ... seems to correlate.
KING: What did she say?
HATTEN: She said that, you know, Mark was -- my brother Mark was very camera in looks to Larry Birkhead and basically she always was crushed out on my brother. They did live together for two years after a blind date.
KING: Your brother and her?
HATTEN: I hooked them up in a blind date. They fell madly in love. They were trying to have babies the first day they met in my bed, OK?
I have pictures of them in my bed together.
KING: So you think she was in love with Larry and had Larry's baby?
HATTEN: I believe so, yes.
KING: Why did they break up?
HATTEN: Howard.
Why did my brother and she break up?
Howard.
Why did Peter and she break up?
Howard.
Why did Jonathan and she break up?
Howard. I mean he gets in the way of everything. He tries to get close to her -- if there's someone closer to him, then he tries to get in between them.
KING: An e-mail question from Carl and Warsaw, Indiana: "I'd like to ask Jackie what Howard and Anna's relationship was truly like?"
Were they -- if they weren't a real couple, what were they?
HATTEN: He did her legal advisers. He was the gofer. He would go get her food. He would go carry her bags. He would -- that's what he did.
KING: And why was he doing that? He couldn't make money elsewhere?
HATTEN: You tell me. He wanted to be a celebrity, I guess. I don't know. You know, that's the only thing I can think of. He was infatuated with her. He was obsessed with her. He wanted somehow to be tied in with Anna Nicole Smith.
KING: All right, why did she acquiesce to the fact that he was the father? Why did she put his name on the birth certificate?
HATTEN: Because...
KING: Didn't you talk to her after that?
HATTEN: Yes. Because of the fact that he -- she felt bound to him. Where he could handle things, she could not. He's a pusher. At the end of the day, an addict is going to succumb to the addiction, no matter what. An addict will succumb to the addiction. And that is what truly happened in this situation.
My friend went ahead and went to the Bahamas because another friend of ours, an ex-boyfriend of hers and a friend of mine, a billionaire, a very affluent and a good person, who we trust very much, lived there.
We used to vacation there with him and basically she went somewhere that she felt safe, that she could go and have some time and have a baby and get away from the love triangle of Howard getting in the middle of her relationships.
So he caused a fight with Larry Birkhead, they broke up, she went away to have the baby and get her thoughts straight.
KING: But she told you that Larry was the father of the baby?
HATTEN: She told me Larry was the father, yes.
KING: What about the commitment ceremony that she had with Howard?
HATTEN: OK. If Howard tried to marry her eight days after Daniel died, what person in their right mind can commit to anything at that point? How can you try to make my friend commit to something she is not willing -- not ready to commit. She's not even sane yet. It's just ridiculous. Eight days after, when Daniel is sitting in a morgue, why is it so certain -- why does he want to get married so soon, when he's sitting in a morgue -- not to mention selling the pictures for $450,000 of the fake ceremony, selling Daniel and Dannielynn's pictures for $650,000.
Daniel's still sitting in a morgue.
Does none of this raise a red flag to anyone?
KING: More with Anna Nicole's best friend of 16 years when we come back.
We'll also hear from Anna Nicole's attorney and Howard Stern's sister.
As we go to break, a look back at Anna Nicole on this show -- her first interview on this show. when?
Fourteen years ago.
Watch her, June of 1993, in New York.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE," JUNE, 1993)
KING: What even led you to the "Playboy?" how did that even come about?
SMITH: Well, I was just about out of going to modeling agencies and schools because they would always turn me down, say I needed to darken my hair, lose weight. So I kind of got away from the modeling scene. And the "Playboy" was like my last chance to really show myself, I guess.
KING: So how did you do that? Did you send them...
SMITH: And I showed myself.
KING: Did you send them a picture of yourself nude?
SMITH: I sent four Polaroids of me nude. And...
KING: And they called the next morning?
SMITH: They called me three days later. I was hoping that the "Playboy" would lead me to be a great model, because a lot of women in "Playboy" that I've seen I look up to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: A combination of Methadone, Zoloft and Lexapro were all found in Daniel's system, her boy who died, and at a memorial for him in October in Texas, you said you wouldn't accept that his death was an accident.
Why?
HATTEN: Exactly. Exactly. Because I knew Daniel never took anything, not even a cigarette. Not even a cigarette. The one time...
KING: And you're saying...
HATTEN: The one time he did drink was on a TV show, her show, in St. Bart's, where it's legal. Had one drink over dinner and he was faded, which shows no tolerance. He never...
KING: So how do you account for that in his system?
HATTEN: You know, who else was in the room?
When Anna woke up, she was screaming, "You caused this. You caused this." The entire hospital floor heard it. The only other person in the room was Howard K. Stern, OK?
When Daniel -- in his -- in Howard's words, when he came on your show, Larry, he said that Daniel was not even tired. He offered him the bed, he was not even tired, in Howard's words, I quote.
Then he said he was hungry so he went and got him food, didn't he?
When he came back, Daniel had helped his mother to and from the bathroom, a sane mind and body. But after he ate the food, he mysteriously asked how come I'm so tired, Howard? Why? How come?
Not, I'm tired, dude. I'm going to crash.
Do you understand?
KING: You're implying Howard was somehow involved?
HATTEN: Danny never took anything. I've known him since he was four years old. I used to baby-sit him. I used to take him to school, along with a few other people, but, you know, at different times when I couldn't, and no one has ever seen him take anything, ever.
It's just another red flag.
Here's another red flag. On your show again, he says -- and you were keen enough, smart enough, to catch onto it. He says yes, well, we had this marriage ceremony at, you know, commitment ceremony and, you know, I've loved Anna for a very, very long time.
You even said I hear you saying you love her, but what about her loving you?
Well, I'll tell you that right now, I hope the feeling is mutual.
You hope the feeling is mutual?
OK, psycho.
You know? What is really going on here?
KING: The most puzzling thing in all of this, if all this is true, she's not stupid. Why did she let...
HATTEN: No, she's not.
KING: Why did she let him control her?
HATTEN: If she's an addict, she is sedated half the time, the way he keeps her. I've seen my friend asleep at the wheel of life in bed, watching the same movie, "Thelma and Louise," her favorite movie, like 11 times in a row. You just don't do that if you're not on drugs.
I've seen too much to let this go by. Someone must pay for this. And that someone, in my opinion, is Howard K. Stern, because of what I have witnessed. And I have warned everyone. I have warned news people, TV people, my family, her family, the FBI, the Bahamian officials, you name it, and they all called me saying oh my god.
KING: All right.
An e-mail from Pamela in Cordova, Tennessee: "Why did Anna Nicole have such disdain for her mother? Why were they so estranged?"
HATTEN: That -- that's a personal thing that she told me and it's -- I really don't want to comment on it. It's a personal issue between she and her mother and her ex-husband -- her mother's ex- husband.
KING: OK.
How did fame affect her?
HATTEN: Fame basically affected Anna -- she was the same person before, that's all I want to say. She was a bubbly, vivacious, beautiful being. People -- fame got to her in a way where people like Howard K. Stern leached on and hung on for anything that they could -- money, fame, fortune -- and she got used. And that's a sad, sad thing.
She was a very strong-willed person and a strong-minded person. And she was a fighter and a survivor.
However, when someone finds your -- your weakness, your vice, and they take advantage of that, I'm sorry, that is just a sick thing to do to someone.
KING: Do you assume the DNA eventually will -- go through, be taken?
HATTEN: Yes. Yes. I assume eventually. I mean he can't run forever. He can't like take the baby forever.
KING: Do you feel sorry for the little girl?
HATTEN: I do. That's my goddaughter. You know, she asked me to...
KING: You're the godmother?
HATTEN: She wanted me to have baby -- a baby with her, so we could have best friends with babies.
KING: What...
HATTEN: And let them grow up together.
KING: What would...
HATTEN: And now this will never happen.
KING: What would happen if you flew to Florida or the Bahamas and asked to see your goddaughter?
HATTEN: I'm sure he would probably try to call the cops on me, like he did when I went to the Bahamas to try to save my friend's life.
KING: He called the cops...
HATTEN: Yes. I went to the Bahamas...
KING: And saying what?
HATTEN: ... and stayed with the friends that I was telling you about that Anna used to date, that we used to vacation with, where we feel safe. I went to see him because he was equally worried, as well as Paul Marciano from Guess and very affluent people.
I went. I had spoken with the FBI prior. I had a liaison, an FBI liaison there in the Bahamas, as well. I went and stayed. I went to try to see my friend after shopping at our normal shops and eating at our normal bistro. I basically went to see her.
I asked very nicely if I could see my friend to the person. I got brushed off by the first person that answered the phone. Nobody want to see nobody here, you know what I mean?
And I'm like please, I'm from California. I've had a very long journey. I need to see my friend. I just came from the memorial and her mother had had a brain aneurysm in the past and was not able to travel.
Her mother asked me to go. I did get there and when the guy said fine, OK, since you're staying at so and such key, when he heard where I was staying, he knew he shouldn't mess around.
He got someone else. The person was kind enough to leave the box on where I heard what was said. And basically I knew that that was on purpose because when he came back he told me the truth about what I had heard.
Basically it was Howard saying no. Anna can have no visitors now. She's not in the shape for any visitors.
KING: I got you.
We're out of time...
HATTEN: And the guy came back and told me, basically, I'm sorry. And then the cops whizzed by after I left.
KING: OK.
Hopefully, Jackie, we'll learn the whole story.
We'll have you back.
HATTEN: Thank you very much.
KING: Thank you.
HATTEN: I hope to come back soon. We need to put like justice -- make justice be served.
KING: Jackie Hatten.
When we come back, the other side of the Howard K. Stern story from his own sister, Bonnie.
She'll be here in the studio.
As we go to a break, Anna Nicole and Howard talking about their relationship on this show on 2004.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE" FEBRUARY 9,2004)
HOWARD K. STERN: I think she's hot. She looks beautiful. She looks absolutely beautiful.
KING: Are you two...
STERN: You know, and it's...
SMITH: He's biased.
KING: Do you two date? Do you two -- I know he's your attorney.
Anna, do you date Howard?
SMITH: No.
KING: I wish.
KING: Where did those rumors come from?
SMITH: Which ones?
KING: That you -- about you and Howard?
SMITH: From everybody.
STERN: I think we just...
KING: But that's...
STERN: ... we just spend so much time together that people think that.
SMITH: Yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE ANNA NICOLE SHOW," COURTESY LION'S GATE HOME ENTERTAINMENT, E! TELEVISION)
SMITH: What I miss most about Howard is the love that he gave to me, the security. I felt safe with my husband. And I -- I miss that. I miss him deeply. Sometimes I think I'm just in a dream and I'm going to wake up and he's going to be there and this is all a dream.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish that was true.
SMITH: And I wake up and it's not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, as Paul Harvey would say, the other side of the story, or the rest of the story.
Bonnie Stern joins us.
She's the sister of Howard K. Stern, born and raised here in California.
You're just back from the Bahamas.
BONNIE STERN, SISTER OF HOWARD K. STERN: Yes.
KING: What's the situation there?
STERN: It's so stressful. It's not very good right now. It's overwhelming. The paparazzi are everywhere, you know?
KING: Where is the baby?
STERN: In hiding.
KING: In hiding? Being watched by whom?
STERN: I can't say.
KING: How -- is Howard there, too, now?
STERN: I can't say that either.
KING: Now, what do you make of all this?
You just heard what our first guest said. She was very tough on your brother.
STERN: She was. She was really tough on my brother.
KING: What do you make of it?
STERN: I happen to know very different, though.
KING: Tell us.
STERN: Well, first of all, I have been very close with my brother since he was young and I met Anna in about 1998. And I was very close to Anna for several years. I've been on her reality TV show. I was around her almost every day for a couple of years. And I never met that person.
KING: You never met the guest?
STERN: Never met her. And I find that really hard to believe that she was her best friend. I was around Anna for two years every day and never met this woman.
KING: Did she ever talk about her to you?
STERN: Nope. Never heard the name at all.
KING: Did Howard ever mention her?
STERN: Nope.
KING: So what do you think is going on?
STERN: I think that there are some people that are getting together, that are trying to create a kind of conspiracy that basically is portraying Howard to be the bad guy or the controller of the situation. And that's not the case.
KING: Howard was not a controller of Anna Nicole?
STERN: Anna Nicole controlled what Anna Nicole did. He did not feed her pills. He did not get her medication. Anna Nicole got her own medication and she did what she wanted to do.
KING: Did he love her?
STERN: He was totally in love with her. She was his world.
KING: You believe he's the father of the child?
STERN: I do.
KING: OK.
Why, then -- and this is what most people would say -- do the DNA. Get it over with. Show the world and get on with your life and raise the baby.
STERN: Why give Larry Birkhead what he wants?
KING: What have you got -- what are you afraid of?
You're the father.
What do you care?
STERN: I don't know.
KING: Because I would -- I would tell you the truth...
STERN: Well, she didn't want to...
KING: I wouldn't care.
STERN: She didn't want to do the DNA either.
KING: Why?
STERN: Because she just didn't want to. She just didn't want to give Larry what he wanted.
KING: But you realize, you're smart, Bonnie, that that explanation don't ring well.
STERN: I know, but that's just what they wanted. It wasn't -- it's not what I, you know, suggested that they do.
KING: Well, wouldn't you say to your brother, Howard, you're the father, do the DNA?
STERN: I did say that.
KING: And he says no?
STERN: He says I'm not doing it for Larry Birkhead. If I have to do, I'll do it, but I'm not doing it for him.
KING: Well, it wouldn't be for Larry. In fact, it would make Larry Birkhead go away. You're the father, goodbye Larry.
STERN: I don't know.
KING: It would seem...
STERN: You can't convince somebody who doesn't want to be convinced, right?
KING: How has he reacted to this death of his -- of -- of Anna?
STERN: I saw Howard -- let's see, I got there on Friday morning at like 5:00 a.m.
KING: She died Thursday, right?
STERN: She died on Thursday. He was completely devastated. He was freezing, sweating, under the covers, crying, just completely devastated. His whole world was gone, is the way he put it.
"My whole world is gone."
And I said, "No, your whole world is not gone. Your baby is left. And that's all of Anna that's left. And your memories. And that's what you have to do, you have to fight for your baby."
KING: It would be terrible, Bonnie, if it were shown he weren't the father, wouldn't it?
STERN: It would.
KING: In the kind of shape he's in?
STERN: Oh my god, it would be devastating.
KING: You would have to worry about him.
STERN: I would.
KING: Did you ever say to him, come home, come back to California?
STERN: He can't.
KING: He's not strapped in there.
STERN: Well, he's not strapped in there, but coming back here is more problems than staying there.
KING: So how -- how does -- take me through this scenario.
How does it end? Where does this go?
STERN: Well, right now...
KING: The paparazzi ain't going to leave.
STERN: No. I mean basically the first thing is he has to -- house is the executor of the will and the will was written in 2001. It was not written by him. So basically he has to, you know, the body has to be released. He has to transport the body back to the Bahamas, which is where she wanted to be buried, next to Daniel.
He has to plan a funeral. He has to deal with the theft. He has to deal with getting their belongings back from the theft. He's got to deal with the inquest.
KING: What was stolen?
STERN: Oh my god. All the computers.
KING: From where?
STERN: The house.
KING: In the Bahamas?
STERN: In the Bahamas.
All of their personal videotapes and tapes that they made; all of their personal photographs, stills; picture -- all the pictures that Anna painted for Dannielynn and for Daniel and everything, all gone. And some of her expensive art work.
KING: How did you get along with her?
STERN: I got along with her fine.
KING: What were the -- there was a side of her the world didn't see, right?
STERN: Absolutely.
KING: And that was?
STERN: That was the soft side of her. That was the sweet side of her. That was the side of her that was broken from her past, you know? She was a homebody. She was quiet. She was a recluse. She loved to watch movies. She was a sun goddess. She loved to paint.
KING: I know.
STERN: You know? She loved to paint. Like that was her piece.
KING: Do you talk to Howard a lot now?
STERN: I do.
KING: Do you talk to him every day?
STERN: I do.
KING: Give him our best, dear.
STERN: I will.
KING: Thanks for coming.
STERN: Thank you.
KING: Bonnie Stern.
Coming up the next half hour, the attorney for Anna Nicole's estate. And he says he's got some news to break about a legal document everyone wants to see. The former pinup's last will and testament.
As we go to a break, more of our 1993 interview with fresh-faced "Playboy" model Anna Nicole Smith.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE" JUNE 1993) KING: The voluptuous woman was really in for a while and then gone. I mean from the point of view of photographers and modeling and all that.
SMITH: I think that was bad. I don't know what happened. I think they should bring them back. I mean Marilyn Monroe and, I mean, all these wonderful women were so beautiful, so voluptuous and real. I think that they should definitely bring more women back.
KING: You're glad you're voluptuous, right?
SMITH: I'm very glad now.
KING: I mean you wouldn't have wanted to be thin (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
SMITH: I'm very glad now I'm voluptuous.
KING: There were times you weren't?
SMITH: There were times when I was -- I wanted to die and was really depressed about my weight. But since the "Playboy" and all the things that happened, I just love it. I love my weight now.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: I want to remind you our Wednesday night special guest, Rudy Giuliani, former mayor of New York, announced candidate for the Republican nomination for the presidency. Rudy Giuliani, Wednesday night.
We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE return visits for Ron Rale. He's the attorney for Anna Nicole Smith. He's here in L.A. In New York Alex Goen, the CEO and founder of TrimSpa. We'll get to Alex in a couple minutes.
First this in -- first for you, Ron, Roger Gomez, the Bahama chief magistrate told CNN authorities in the islands they now have a heightened interest in questioning Howard K. Stern, the longtime attorney and companion of reality TV star Anna Nicole Smith. Stern claims paternity of his five month-old child. That claim has been challenged. Gomez said Smith and Stern were in the hospital room when Daniel died. Anna Nicole, the mother of Daniel is dead. Howard is the only one who is alive who was in the room. Gomez said, "It really arouses our suspicions to what happened in that room."
What do you make of that?
RON RALE, ATTORNEY FOR ANNA NICOLE SMITH: I mean, it's kind of the same stuff we've been hearing in the press...
KING: That looks like an official investigation into possible chicanery. RALE: We know that there's an inquest pending in the Bahamas. And I don't give any -- any credence to that. It's -- it's going to unfold and everybody will see that there's no basis for any kind of criminal allegations.
KING: Do you represent Howard Smith, too?
RALE: Howard Stern?
KING: Howard Stern, I'm sorry.
RALE: No, I don't. I represent Anna Nicole Smith. And I did in the paternity case, which she is no longer a party to, in Los Angeles. And now we have her estate. And I'll represent right now that I will be working in a capacity on behalf of her estate because I think, as Howard's sister mentioned, there is a will that was executed by Anna Nicole. And I am named as executor of that will, as well as Howard Stern.
KING: So this means you and Howard Stern are the executors of the will. That means you will distribute moneys, what is said in the will, you will oversee the handling of the proceeds of the will?
RALE: Well, we're kind of jumping ahead because there's no probate officially pending right now. And I'll -- just to be specific, Howard Stern is named first as executor. And I'm the second executor...
KING: And what do executors do?
RALE: They're in charge of -- I'm not a probate specialist. But, you know, basically, they're in charge of management of the estate-- of the probate estate. So how it's going to unfold, I can't tell you right now. But that's -- this is developing for us, too.
KING: You always knew there was a will?
RALE: Yes. I mean, I have known that there's a will.
KING: Have you seen the will?
RALE: I've seen the will.
KING: Strange for a girl that young to do a will, isn't it?
RALE: Not really.
KING: No?
RALE: No.
KING: You know many 37 year-olds that do a will?
RALE: I mean, Larry, lots of people do wills at different ages. And, you know, Anna did a will.
KING: When does it go to probate?
RALE: You know, these kind of questions I don't want to answer right now. But there are so many things developing. But, obviously, there's going to be a probate.
KING: But Howard and you are the trustees of the will?
RALE: Executors of the will. We're not appointed officially yet. So...
KING: But she wanted you.
RALE: And the reason why I bring that up is because there are some developments, obviously. Anna's house was broken into in the Bahamas and there's been a dissemination of photographs, videos and other articles of Anna's, which are now really part of her estate. And we're trying to give heads-up notice to people to don't accept anything which hasn't agreed to first by myself or Howard Stern.
KING: You wanted take something about our first guest, Jackie Hatten?
RALE: Yes, I was a little bit tired. I hadn't had a lot of sleep lately. But I was in your Green Room and I got hopping mad when I saw Jackie on your show because -- I mean, I've not -- I was not such the close, personal friend with Anna Nicole where I know all of her friends. But I have been around enough to know certain things. And I just happened to know who this woman was. I believe that she -- I was around when she met Anna Nicole. It was about the time that Anna Nicole was part of a beauty contest, maybe five or six years ago.
KING: She said 16 years ago.
RALE: No. That's impossible because I remember when she met her...
KING: She knew Daniel when she was four. She's hi godmother.
RALE: I remember. I mean, it's interesting because I can remember this Jackie coming around and people talking about how she was a wannabe Anna Nicole. And I know for certain when -- there was a period of time when she was friends with Anna Nicole. But that ended about the same time that Jackie's brother was convicted. And I'm talking in the Los Angeles superior court in the Van Nuys District. Her brother was convicted of, I believe, terrorist threats. I was actually at that trial defending Anna Nicole...
KING: And Anna Nicole stopped being her friend because of the brother?
RALE: Well, Jackie wouldn't, I believe, testify against her brother. We all knew what he had done. Anna Nicole completely lost any faith in Jackie. So I remember Anna saying, "Keep her away from me."
And, you know, from my personal knowledge back then, she was done. And I have just confirmed with Howard, you know, that there's no relationship there. She certainly didn't talk to her in the last few months.
KING: Alex Goen, CEO and founder of TrimSpa, what do you make of finding another product in the refrigerator?
ALEX GOEN, TRIMSPA CEO: Well, I think it's unfortunate, I guess. I look at it as a setup. It was kind of interesting how all of the bottles are pointed right to the camera. I don't believe that to be the case. I think SlimFast is a wonderful product. I don't believe Anna was taking it.
KING: So who would want to set you up like that? Who's got it in to harm you? Because it harms you?
GOEN: Well, I mean, I guess it harms us indirectly. I think they're trying to harm the credibility of Anna Nicole and Howard Stern. And it does seem to me to be an unfortunate plot.
You know what's kind of interesting about the picture also, where is everything else that's in the refrigerator? I was at Anna's house many times. I looked at the refrigerator and it's normally full of food. There was nothing in there at all, other than a few of those items. And then also if you take a look at the picture, just kind of the way the TrimSpa was set up next to it, it just -- it looked very odd.
KING: When your wife was here last week, she said that you were really distraught. How are you now?
GOEN: You know, I guess I'm distraught. But I'm angry. You know, Howard was so devoted to Anna. And for Howard to be portrayed the way he is, it's very, very sad. I mean, Anna wore the pants in that relationship. There's absolutely no question about it. Howard did what Anna wanted Howard to do. Howard cared and loved Anna for a long, long time. And, you know, it's interesting back with the commitment ceremony -- I mean, I was very involved at the time. I remember trying to talk them both out of having an actual wedding. That's kind of how it kind of became a commitment ceremony, as opposed to a wedding. I said the timing was wrong. Anna want that commitment ceremony. Howard thought the timing was wrong. Anna wanted it. Anna said to me, "Alex, understand something, I have no one in my life. I have no one that I know is going to be there for me for the rest of my life. I need some sort of commitment from someone, and I need Howard to go out there and tell me..."
KING: I got you. I got you. You said it very well.
Alex, then why doesn't he just do the DNA?
GOEN: You know, I've asked him the question also. I think it was more a matter of Anna than Howard. I'm thinking that possibly Howard may change his mind. But then again, who knows? Howard may want to fulfill Anna's wishes.
Anna had a relationship with Larry Birkhead. No question about it. I witnessed it myself. However, a relationship that seemed that they cared about each other deeply turned to hate very, very quickly. And at that point there was nothing that Anna wanted from Larry.
KING: But the truth is -- the truth is we don't know who the father is, right?
GOEN: I agree with that. I think -- I have talked to Larry. He seemed compelling. I have talked to Howard. He's very compelling.
KING: Thank you, Alex.
We'll have you back again.
Ron, always good seeing you.
Coming up later, some interesting information from the medical examiner in the case.
Up next, a pair of Hollywood journalists chronicling the Anna Nicole case, their insight and information on the case when we come back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: I have been in litigation since 1994. And he told me don't worry about it because once we're married, half of everything I have is going to be yours. And it is a rough, rough, rough, rough, rough, rough process. And I am just so tired of lawsuits and being sued and being in court. And I just want to be done with it. I want it to be over.
KING: You still think about...
SMITH: I just want to be free of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining us from Nassau in the Bahamas is Godfrey "Pro" Pinder. We will call him Pro. He's the attorney for G. Ben Thompson. Thompson maintains that he's the legal owner of the Bahamian property on which Anna Nicole was living.
Who is living at the property now, Pro?
GODFREY PINDER, ATTORNEY FOR G. BEN THOMPSON: Well, the person living at the property now would be Howard from time to time. The nanny of the little baby, Ms. Gibson. Some maids that work in the house. They have a lot of bodyguards around, or at least security guards. And the gardener is there.
KING: Are they still paying the rent?
PINDER: They never paid the rent. The rent was paid by G. Ben Thompson at all times because he's the owner of the property. He repaired the property. He put it into good shape. He gave Anna some money for support. And he just treated her royally. KING: Why?
PINDER: I think because they had a former relationship, and maybe the relationship was still casual after it probably ended. And he wanted her to be comfortable since she was going to have a baby in the Bahamas. He purchased the house on the agreement that she would sign a promissory note on a mortgage for $950,000, because he bought the property for $900,000. And she's refused to sign these documents. Hence she has no right in the property. But he kept her there in any event, because she's a lady. You don't throw ladies out of the house.
KING: Now, what about stuff taken from the house? How do you account for that?
PINDER: I think that's a red herring. No stuff was really taken from the house. They are trying to hide the true issue, and the true issue is the ownership of the house.
KING: So how do they hide that by claiming that stuff was taken?
PINDER: Well, if they claim that stuff was taken, let them enumerate the stuff that was taken, and let us see what stuff there might be. I mean, they might have an enumeration someplace. They can't say who took the stuff, and they cannot say when the stuff was actually taken. I think it's a red herring, Larry.
KING: How long, Pro, will he allow Howard and the others to live there, your client?
PINDER: Until the 26th of February, 2007. Then we go before the judge, G. Ben Thompson, to decide the true owner of the place and who has right title and interest. My client has all the documents. Howard and his group has none.
KING: Thank you, Pro. Godfrey "Pro" Pinder, the attorney for G. Ben Thompson, as this case gets curiouser -- thank you -- and curiouser.
Now let's head to New York. Anderson Cooper is on assignment. He's wild somewhere. I know where he's going. We may learn that tomorrow night. But Anderson travels where no man fears to tread.
But sitting in in the safe confines of our studios in New York to sit in, here's John Roberts. John, what's up?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, I try to get out once in a while as well.
Ahead tonight on "360," news of a deal that could put the brakes on North Korea's nuclear program. But like any deal, it has strings attached, and critics who say that it won't hold up and sets a bad precedent for the United States. We'll talk with former United Nations Ambassador Bill Richardson, who may know this situation better than anyone.
Also, we will head to upstate New York and get an update on the record amounts of snow up there dumped over the past week. And the forecast for the next few days -- hint -- a little more snow. That's coming up at the top of the hour -- Larry.
KING: Thanks so much, John Roberts. One of the best in the business.
When we come back, Harvey Levin and Tony Potts reporting on the Anna Nicole Smith mystery. And we'll also check in with the chief medical examiner in West Palm Beach. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: It hit me real hard at times, especially being turned away from so many modeling agencies, you know, saying you've got to get down to 125. I mean, I'm 5'11 and I'm big all over. I just -- when I was -- before I had my son, I weighed 125 pounds, and I was so, so anorexic looking. I just knew there was no possible way for me ever to get back that small for one thing.
But also, a good thing about this is, is women are really coming out and looking up to me, and it's -- it's such a wonderful feeling, because I have never, ever had women look up to me before. I always had these (inaudible)...
KING: They hated you?
SMITH: Right.
KING: That's nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Joining us now here in Los Angeles, Harvey Levin. He is the managing editor of tmz.com. Over the weekend, they published pictures of the contents of that refrigerator, which has caused a stir.
And in Nassau, the Bahamas, Tony Potts, correspondent, weekend co-host of "Access Hollywood."
We will rifle questions. Harvey, what do you make of the prince's claim that he may be a father?
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ.COM: Finally, Michael Jackson's life is starting to look normal to me. What can you say, Larry? What I love is that Zsa Zsa is upset because she does not want a baby around the house.
KING: Tony, does this get curiouser and curiouser?
TONY POTTS, ACCESS HOLLYWOOD: Yes, absolutely. And I think with the claims now that Howard K. Stern has sold his story for a lot of money, I think that it does. Indeed, I mean, I want your viewers to put themselves in Howard K. Stern's place. What if the woman you loved all your life has just died hours ago, why are you on a plane, with photographers inside the plane with you following every step? Wouldn't you want to grieve? Most people, especially if they are high-profile, what would happen, they would have a PR agent come out and say, you know what, Mr. Stern is grieving at this time, we all know the importance of this story, the national media is here, but can you please give him his space. At the appropriate time, he will come out and he will go ahead and speak to you, or he will issue a statement.
Who would bring cameras in? What is the upside of bringing cameras on a plane, especially when you reunite with Dannielynn, also going into the house?
What's the upside? The upside is money, Howard. And he knows, and, also, Larry, you know, that it is nothing but money for him. And to me, he may love her. He may love Dannielynn. I have no idea about that. I'm sure maybe he does. But what's the upside? It's all about money down here. I'm telling you, there's blood money down here.
KING: Harvey, what do you make of this whole story?
LEVIN: I mean, what I make of this story is, the only person to me who seems genuinely, genuinely concerned for this baby is Larry Birkhead. And it just...
POTTS: I agree.
LEVIN: And it seems so untoward to me that Howard Stern, by all accounts, is making a lot of money 36 hours after this woman dies. And it's very troubling, and I think drugs are kind of at the heart of this, and this methadone that turned up in this refrigerator has really gotten police interested. And, Larry, I think this is going to become a telling moment in the case.
KING: Why won't he let, Harvey, the DNA -- for me, wouldn't you want to know?
LEVIN: You're right. I mean, you said it. You said it perfectly. Why not just end it? And they are fighting it. And there's clearly a situation here. I mean, my gut...
POTTS: Larry, I'll tell you the reason why, Larry.
LEVIN: ... is Larry Birkhead is the dad, period.
KING: Why, Tony?
POTTS: I'll tell you why. Because the minute that it's found out that Howard K. Stern is not the father of this baby, nobody is going to pay him millions of dollars to follow him around and photograph and publish his story. That's why. The longer he can ride this out, that baby -- unfortunately -- I'm a father and hate to say this -- but that's his gravy train. And the minute he's not found to be the father -- and you know, I have to agree with Harvey. The person so far in all of this is Larry. Larry seems to be under the radar. I do know that he's in the Bahamas now, so he is going to probably come here and go through the legal means and order a DNA test by the court.
Now, Ron Rale was on your show earlier. I talked to Ron yesterday. He said, look, if this happens and Larry Birkhead comes to the Bahamas, we will do a DNA test with Dannielynn and with Larry Birkhead. I said, well, what about Howard? Well, nobody's asked him about that. I said, nobody's asked Howard K. Stern for a DNA sample, are you kidding me? He said, no, they haven't. I said, well, I bet you Larry Birkhead is.
KING: We will take a break and be back with more. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We are back with Harvey Levin and Tony Potts. Let's check in with Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner, Broward County. Going to be hearing a lot from him.
We wanted to ask you, Doctor, about the reports that you interviewed a friend of Howard and Anna's who is a medical doctor and that he had some information for you. What can you tell us?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BROWARD COUNTY, FL: Well, I cannot tell you what she told me, but she told me some very important things in relation to the medical condition and the development prior to her death. In other words, she was really sick, and also very important, because they directed our attention to issues which we are going to have to resolve.
KING: So this was her doctor telling you about a condition she had?
PERPER: Correct. And it was -- she was very cooperative and provided very useful information for us.
KING: Thank you so much.
Tony Potts in Nassau in the Bahamas. We understand you have something to add to all of this.
POTTS: Yes. There were talks earlier about Howard being very controlling. I can tell you that I have learned firsthand that there's an audiotape of Anna Nicole calling her mother after Daniel died. There's a phone conversation for a short period of time. And then Howard comes in the background. You can hear him clearly, and there's some sort of discussion, and then the phone is slammed down because he had found out that she was trying to contact her mother.
I can tell you that the person that I received this information from has heard this firsthand, and, by the way, is in possession of this tape -- one, I hear, of many tapes that will give examples -- audiotapes -- of how controlling Howard K. Stern was. Larry. KING: Harvey, I understand that you had a report today that Bahamian authorities had a face-to-face with Howard K. Stern earlier today?
LEVIN: Yes. They wanted to talk with him specifically about what happened in that hospital room with Daniel when he died. And Larry, I am telling you, I know that at least one witness is going to testify -- and the cops are interested in this -- that it was Howard K. Stern who gave Daniel the methadone in the hospital room, and then flushed it down the toilet, the remainder, after he died. And now suddenly methadone turns up in Anna Nicole' refrigerator, and he's in the middle of all this methadone, and they are concerned.
KING: Are you reading foul play?
LEVIN: You know...
KING: I'd hate to conjecture on something like that.
LEVIN: I don't know. I mean, all I know is, to me, that drugs just lie at the heart of a lot of this. And beyond that, you know, I don't know.
KING: You agree, Tony?
POTTS: Absolutely. The trail of when I first started meeting Anna Nicole, doing interviews with her, and also then Howard K. Stern started showing up and was always by her side -- yes, I feel the exact same way, Larry.
KING: And the conflicts tonight, Harvey, between people saying, we know him, we don't know him. He ran her, she ran him. He ran her. Might we ever find that out?
LEVIN: I think a little bit of everything is true here. I think in some ways, she controlled -- he controlled her. But at the same time, I'm told that after Daniel died, she was a loose canon, and she was suicidal at times, and she was saying, I don't want anything to do with you, Howard. And one of the theories is that maybe he wasn't so upset that she was on drugs, because then at least she was contained.
POTTS: Absolutely.
KING: Thank you so much. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Harvey. And thank you, Doctor.
POTTS: You're welcome, Larry.
KING: We shall stay, of course, on top of this story as well. I imagine more on it tomorrow night.
And Wednesday night, Rudy Giuliani will be with us, the former mayor of New York, and an announced candidate for the Republican nomination for the presidency. Rudy Giuliani on Wednesday.
Right now, we turn our attention to New York. Anderson Cooper is off tonight, and John Roberts will host "AC 360." John, what's ahead?
ROBERTS: Hey, Larry, thanks very much. Looking forward to that Wednesday show.
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