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CNN Larry King Live
Ex-Wives Club
Aired May 30, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight -- breaking up is hard to do. So what's it like when your relationship has been front page news and your ex is making headlines with someone else?
Marla Maples, dumped by ex-husband Donald Trump, Angie Everhart, Sylvester Stallone's former fiancee and ex-wife of George Hamilton's son Ashley Hamilton. And Shar Jackson, boyfriend Kevin Federline left her for Britney Spears while she was pregnant with their second child. These celebrity exes survived the scandal of a high-profile breakup. And they are all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
There are three guarantees in life -- death, taxes and this show will not be dull. Our guests are Marla Maples, Char Jackson, Angie Everhart, all broken hearted, although they don't look it. And they are all part of the "Ex-Wives Club." The sensational television show on ABC. How did you get with it, Marla?
MARLA MAPLES, "EX-WIVES CLUB": Producer Andrew Glassman came to me with an idea. When I heard the title, I said don't put me in a box. I don't see myself just as an ex-wife. I see myself as so much more and then he told me the creative reason for it. And it's truly about stepping out and sharing what we've learned to help other people and that's what life is for. I mean, if we don't learn from all of the difficulties, then how do we grow as a person.
KING: So this is a serious show.
MAPLES: A serious show in the fact we transform people's life and help them get happy. But a fun show.
SHAR JACKSON, "EX-WIVES CLUB": We definitely have fun.
KING: Char, why did you take it, since you have to deal with personal things?
JACKSON: I mean, we touch on our situation. We touch on our relationship but we don't really go there. You know what I mean? We keep it at a distance. But it's for the same reasons.
KING: You have been hired for a reason.
JACKSON: Obviously, we know a little something about breaking up, at least ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She does. We have been there for sure. JACKSON: Seriously, it was just a great idea and chance to take our pain and help somebody else and help them get through it. I couldn't pass it up. For all of the same reasons Marla said.
KING: Angie?
ANGIE EVERHART, "EX-WIVES CLUB": Well, the name "Ex-Wives Club" kind of at first, I was like oh, no, what is it going to be about. When Andrew explained it to me, you will be helping people get through a really rough time in their life. And since divorce is probably the most painful experience along with death in the family, that it's really, really wonderful to help these people.
KING: So you take ordinary people and help them through their situations?
EVERHART: Yes.
KING: only women?
MAPLES: No.
EVERHART: Absolutely not.
JACKSON: We do not discriminate.
KING: Why call it the "Ex-Wives Club," why not just the "Ex Club?"
EVERHART: We are the wives.
MAPLES: We are the exes, we are the team that comes together for each other. The three of us are very different in many ways but so much alike at the core level. So this is a chance to pull very different girls together that have - We have our own essence so we can work with the men. We are that club of girls.
KING: Did you know each other before this?
EVERHART: No, but we love each other. It's nice to work with really cool ladies.
MAPLES: It's been awesome for us.
KING: Let's talk about your individual cases. How bad was it for you and Donald to break up?
MAPLES: Larry, you have known us for so many years. It was difficult from the word go. I mean it was always a tough relationship. But when you love someone, you stick it out and you do everything you can to really hope it's going to work. I'm not a quitter.
KING: Still love him?
MAPLES: I will always love him. I will always love Donald. You just don't go through life with someone. I spent a third of my life with this man. We have an amazing 13-year-old daughter. I don't believe in anger and regret. I believe in healing.
KING: Were you dumped?
MAPLES: Every time I hear dumped, I laugh. Because I was in a relationship with him for close to 10 years and the lifestyle was just too hard for me, to be very honest with you. I wanted a very different life to raise my daughter in. And I had to move on. I had to move on and create a space that wasn't in the center of the world and the tabloid world. I wanted her to have a chance to really live life and see who she was at the core level.
EVERHART: So he was dumped.
MAPLES: I would never say he was dumped. It does take two. But it was time.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: He was on this show last night.
MAPLES: I heard.
KING: I asked him about you and this club and you coming here tonight. Here's what Donald had to say.
MAPLES: Goodie, goodie, goodie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Your ex-wife Marla Maples is now co-hosting a new show "The Ex-Wives Club." I think we are going to feature some of it tomorrow night on this program. What do you make of that?
DONALD TRUMP, CELEBRITY BILLIONAIRE: Well, I spoke to Marla about it. As you know she's not allowed to do it because we have a thing called an agreement. It's called a prenuptial agreement. She's not allowed to be doing that.
But I haven't seen it yet. If I look at it, I will tell you whether or not I approve. But she's a nice person. We have a very beautiful daughter and Marla is a very nice person. So I hope it's OK. But she's absolutely not allowed to be doing it.
KING: Why?
TRUMP: Because it's in an agreement. Like everything, Larry. It's in an agreement.
KING: That she can't go on television. Or she can't ...
TRUMP: She's not allowed to be discussing me. And it seems that the show, in the show, she's discussing me. So hopefully it's fine. Hopefully she thinks I'm a wonderful person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: So, Marla, you have to keep saying he's a wonderful person.
MAPLES: That is what it's about. How are you ever going to make Donald Trump happy? I spent many years trying to make him happy.
KING: Were awe disappointed in that response?
MAPLES: This is about moving on. This is not about Donald Trump. It's not about Kevin. It's not about Stallone or Ashley. This is about taking what we have learned and we move forward and we make an impact and a difference.
KING: OK.
MAPLES: Enough Donald.
KING: Moving on.
JACKSON: I'm moving on, thanks.
KING: If anyone has to be bitter, you have to be bitter. You have one child, you're pregnant with another and your live-in boyfriend dumps you ...
JACKSON: Yeah, I got dumped. Yeah.
KING: Leaves you for Britney Spears.
JACKSON: Right. I mean things happen. It is what it is.
KING: Let me tell you ...
JACKSON: Oh, I found out, he called me a day before a bunch of pictures hit the magazines and stuff. He was just like, hey, I just called to let you know I hung out with somebody this week and, yeah, that was pretty much it.
I was like, you know what, I don't even want to discuss this over the phone. If you want to make our family work, come back and talk to me and let's discuss it. And he told me, he came home and we talked. And he said he had booked a commercial and he was going overseas to film it and went overseas with Britney and that was it.
KING: How badly were you hurt?
JACKSON: Oh, my God, I was wrecked. I was wrecked. I was pregnant, so I was already emotional. Hormonal. I was a wreck.
KING: How are the children now?
JACKSON: They are fabulous.
KING: How old are they?
JACKSON: They are two and four.
KING: Are they close to their father?
JACKSON: Yes, very much so. He's a good dad. He may not have been the best boyfriend, but he's an amazing dad.
KING: Do you have any particular feelings about Britney?
JACKSON: I don't.
KING: None at all?
JACKSON: No, none the all.
KING: Do you have a dog named Britney?
JACKSON: I did. I did. I had a Yorkie.
KING: Did you give the dog up?
JACKSON: Yes. I don't want to call her name. It was too close to home.
KING: Could have changed her name.
JACKSON: She was five. That's wrong. That's abusive.
KING: What scars has this left?
JACKSON: Really no scars. Just lessons learned. I learned a lot about myself and the person that I am. I love myself so much more going through it. And I am spending more time with my babies. The only negative is he's not my mate anymore and I actually I'm OK.
KING: Do you feel sorry for him?
JACKSON: For what?
KING: He's gone now from her?
JACKSON: Yeah, things happen. Circle of life. Circle of life.
KING: I have not left you out. I'm going to take a break and I'm getting to you. We will be right back with Rambo's ex. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: All right, Angie, what happened with Sly?
ANGIE EVERHART, "EX-WIVES CLUB": Oh, boy. We broke up.
KING: Any particular -- were you going to get married?
EVERHART: We were engaged, yes.
KING: You gave him back his ring?
EVERHART: Yes, definitely. No, I did not keep the ring.
KING: What essentially caused it, so we can deal with healing?
EVERHART: It's really hard to say. He's a very controlling person. And I'm not the controlled type. So it just ...
KING: That's a bad match when a controller tries ...
EVERHART: It's a very -- We were not good together.
KING: Are you friends?
EVERHART: No. He's my only boyfriend that I ever had that I'm not friends with.
KING: How do you explain that? Since you tend to be friends with your ex boyfriends. Are you friends with your ex-husband, George Hamilton's son?
EVERHART: Yes. Ashley, yes.
KING: Was that fun? It was three months.
EVERHART: No, that wasn't fun. Getting married and getting a divorce right away, no, I didn't go into it thinking I was going to get divorced three months later but things happened between the two of us that it was either leave now or be miserable for the rest of our lives.
KING: Any child from that?
EVERHART: No. We would have had a cute kid though.
KING: Was George a good father-in-law?
EVERHART: George is the best. You must know George.
KING: Very well.
EVERHART: He's absolutely a class, class act. He's so much fun. He's very funny, too.
KING: Does he feel like a young father-in-law to you?
EVERHART: I think I dated the wrong one!
MAPLES: I worked with George a couple of times. He's a blast.
EVERHART: I married the wrong one.
KING: Is Sly someone not to be friendly with, to be a friend of?
EVERHART: You know, I could just -- I could be so mean right now, but ... KING: Go ahead.
EVERHART: No!
MAPLES: Take the higher road, baby.
EVERHART: No. We do not get along.
KING: Why did you take this show? Because you wanted to help people, right? Do you bring your own personal experiences to it?
EVERHART: I do. Everybody has at one point or another have a heartache or been broken up or have been dumped or, we all know what heartache is. So it's something that everybody can relate to.
KING: We have an e-mail question from Jason in San Francisco. This is for any guest who wants to answer. "What was the one moment after the divorce or breakup that caused the shift in you to realize that you could go on to be successful, that everything was OK?"
For you Marla?
MAPLES: For me when was having a daughter and I knew I had to be just all right for her.
KING: So you had a goal.
MAPLES: I had a goal. That's like making sure this child knows her mom is emotionally stable and can be there for her and give her the kind of love she deserves.
KING: Shar?
JACKSON: Same thing. I had a brand new baby and three other ones. So I didn't have time to sit around. I had to get a job.
KING: You didn't have time to be bitter?
JACKSON: No, not at all. Not at all.
EVERHART: Mine was spiritual. I got a tattoo. Mine is on the spiritual and loving and kind. I didn't have any babies. But I got a tattoo. Sorry, mom.
KING: Do you want to be a mother?
EVERHART: Do I want to be a mother? Of course, I do. Definitely.
KING: What do you get out of doing this show, Marla?
MAPLES: Oh, so much. I have got to tell you at the end of the day even though you're tired and you've worked hard, when you watch the difference in a person's ability to smile and embrace life, you know that you're taking the right foot steps. I really feel like God directs our foot steps, and these people were just so appreciative. We have been able to maintain some relationships with some of the folks.
JACKSON: They are awesome.
MAPLES: It makes you feel great to know just what we can share together with the help of our friend Debbie Ford (ph), we were able to do a little bit to inspire them to go on.
KING: How do you find the people you help, Shar?
JACKSON: Actually, we did a press junket and had open calls and told people to call in and let us know what kind of breakup they had, what was going on and where they are. And that was one of the ways. And another one, they just logged into abc.com or something like that to send in your little application and they will call you and find out what's going in.
KING: It's a reality show?
JACKSON: It is a reality show, it is. But it's real.
KING: And, Angie, the three of you go out like a team of nurses -- psychological nurses?
EVERHART: We look like nurses.
MAPLES: There are four of us, we have Debbie Ford.
KING: She will be here.
EVERHART: She will be here. And she puts them through the mental ringer and we take over after that. And do the makeovers of whatever they need.
JACKSON: And help them release things in other ways.
KING: Do you do follow-ups?
JACKSON: Oh, definitely. Definitely.
KING: You don't just leave them?
JACKSON: No, we want to know what's going on.
EVERHART: We bond with people on the show.
MAPLES: Yeah.
KING: You have helped a lot of people already?
MAPLES: You help them dream again. You help them dream again and that's what is really important. When you get really down and in those dark moments, you forget how to dream. So what we did really is help them remember who they were before.
JACKSON: Before. MAPLES: And what they can have in the future. And it's so beautiful to see excitement in their eyes. They finally get, wow, it's really not too late.
EVERHART: When they come to us, they have so much pain in their eyes. And by the time we are done with them, they are laughing, freely laughing. It's really -- I felt like Oprah.
KING: We will take a break. Back with lots more from "Ex-Wives Club." We will be meeting others, too, later. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you think being a first wife is hard, try being a first wife in Hollywood. Every time your mandates someone else or marries someone else, you have to see it on the cover of every magazine of every newsstand you walk by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: When you love somebody, it's unconditional. No matter what size they are, you just love them. And you don't turn your back on them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last month of our marriage, I leaned over to give him a kiss and he didn't want to kiss me. He just turned away. I looked at him, and I said, what is the matter? What is wrong with you? Do you even love me anymore? Do you even want to be married? And he looked at me and said, no, I don't. And he took off. And that was it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We are back with the gang from "The Ex-Wives Club." And an e-mail question from Wayne, Santa Rosa Beach, Florida.
"On the ex-wives show, which was great, a car was dropped from the plane. Did any of you do anything like this with your ex." I saw that clip. ABC is not permitting us to show us for some reason but it's wild. This woman said her ex-husband loved his car more than her. So he took the car up in a C-10 and dropped it in the desert. One of the wild get even moments of all time. Any of you have moments like that?
JACKSON: I just lived through hers. That was great. I didn't need one of my own.
MAPLES: It was good.
EVERHART: I did one.
KING: What did you do? EVERHART: I took a painting in my backyard and I sliced it up and I lit it on fire. My roommate came out, and she was like, what are you doing?
JACKSON: It's his!
EVERHART: And I returned it like that.
KING: Why, Marla, do you think in a breakup the anger is so vicious? Louie Nizer (ph), the great late Louie Nizer told me once, there was more anger in a contested divorce than the victim -- the victim's relative in a murder trial sitting behind the accused, there's more anger in divorce cases. Why?
MAPLES: I think because love. You have a love that's powerful enough to walk you down that altar. On the other side of that is extreme anger and extreme hate that just takes you to the next level. There's such a tight bond between love and hate.
KING: Do you hate Kevin Federline?
JACKSON: Never, never. I love him to death, to this day.
KING: So you don't feel betrayed?
JACKSON: Oh, yeah, betrayal, yeah, definitely. Never deny that. But I know that he's a good person. People do things, people make mistakes. People just go in the journey the way their life is supposed to go. The way I look at things, everything happens for a reason and the way it's supposed to. He came in my life, blessed me with two beautiful children. I wouldn't take back any of that. I love my kids to death.
KING: Do you worry about Britney at all or care about her?
JACKSON: Why would I? I care make sure she's OK and healthy and all that.
KING: You have no reason to hate her?
JACKSON: No, no reason either way.
KING: You don't say she broke up my relationship?
JACKSON: No.
KING: Were you going to marry Kevin?
JACKSON: Yes.
KING: You had a date?
JACKSON: I didn't have a date. I figured if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it big, Cinderella style. And we had to wait a little while. When Kevin was with me, he wasn't working much so we had to wait. KING: Do you take umbrage when people kid him about not having talent?
JACKSON: You know, I just feel like he will prove people -- he is going to prove people wrong so I'm not worried about it. Everything in its time. They will see.
KING: You want him to be successful? He's going to do a movie.
JACKSON: Yeah. He's going to do a movie.
KING: With whom?
JACKSON: Keanu Reeves.
KING: That will be good.
JACKSON: I will tell him, I can be his acting coach. That is what I do.
EVERHART: That's right.
KING: Before the show, Angie, what were you doing?
EVERHART: I had taken a couple of years off. So I was -- I was living in New York and I didn't work. It was great.
KING: You describe burning up a picture. You had a lot of anger in relationships?
EVERHART: That wasn't one of my finest moments, Larry. Have I had anger? Sure. I'm a fiery redhead.
JACKSON: Yeah.
EVERHART: I am. I'm a fiery redhead. What you see is what you get.
KING: And not controllable.
EVERHART: I'm controllable. Don't like to be controlled. Who does? Who likes to be repressed? I want to be myself. If I can't be myself, then I don't think it's good to be in a relationship like that. I don't think it's healthy.
KING: Do you care how Sly does in life or not care?
EVERHART: I don't wish him any ill -- I would just rather not run into him but I don't have a problem with him.
KING: Number one problem, you see, Marla, out there talking to these people?
MAPLES: Oh, just people have lost a sense of themselves, and I think that was one of my biggest problems. When you're in a relationship and you give your entire heart and soul to the relationship with the dream of what you think the outcome is going to be, you really lose sight of who you are individually.
And I would love to see more people within relationships really hold true to their own dreams. And walk strong with that mate. So we won't see such a divorce problem in our culture. But now we have it and now we are here to do all we can do to remind people of their dreams.
KING: What do you see the most when you talk to these people?
JACKSON: You know, it was really hard for me. Because I was still going through all of my stuff dealing with these people. So I was in that place. And I know -- Kevin left me when I was pregnant with our child, you know what I mean. There's no -- there's no bigger disrespect or just betrayal, like you said. And I see that in these people. That they can't let go. They don't know how to let go.
KING: They still hold on?
JACKSON: They still hold on and they live in this place of oh, my God, I can't believe this person did that to me. I can't believe this. And maybe there's something wrong with me. And you have got to let go. Look at it for what it was and find the positive in it.
KING: What do you see when you talk to these people?
EVERHART: At first they are broken and heartbroken. And going through the process with Debbie, she really makes them see what they did wrong as well in the relationship, so they can move forward in their life. And you see the process of a person coming back to life. You see their spirit. Like ...
KING: It's a great feeling.
EVERHART: Oh, it's so nice.
JACKSON: Beautiful.
KING: Nancy Reagan is our special guest tomorrow night, Jack Hanna and the animals on Friday. And next Monday his first live primetime interview. He's getting out of jail, Dr. Jack Kevorkian. Up next, x, that's x marks the spot. For more inside info on celebrity divorces, we have got a celebrity lawyer, financial adviser and divorce therapist. We will also take your calls right after -- and this is not a pun -- the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "EX-WIVES CLUB")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I looked at the radio, next to the radio there was a wallet and a man's watch. I asked her -- I said, you know, what's going on here? And she said, "Nothing." So I looked under the bed and there was clothes kicked under the bed. And so I opened up the closet and he was all the way in the back of the closet, wrapped up in my blanket -- my blanket -- with his hand up, and he said, you know, "Don't hit me. Don't hit me." UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's got to be the hardest thing in the whole world, find your wife with somebody and have the person being there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And in the closet no less. Anyway, Angie Everhart, Shar Jackson and Marla Maples remain with us. They're the three co-hosts of "The Ex-Wives Club" on ABC every Monday night. The other co-host is Debbie Ford. She joins us, the founder of the Ford Institute for Integrated Coaching at J.F.K. University. She's the author of "Spiritual Divorce." She serves as a life coach to women featured on "The Ex-Wives Club." Her website, by the way, is DebbieFord.com. There you see the book. Neil Hersh is here with us, celebrity divorce attorney. His clients have included Kim Basinger, Halle Berry, Denise Richards and Drew Barrymore. And in New York, our old friend, Suze Orman, author of "Women & Money." That book is a major best- seller. And we'll talk about the role money plays in divorce.
Debbie, what do you mean by spiritual divorce?
DEBBIE FORD, LIFE COACH ON "EX-WIVES CLUB": Well, a spiritual divorce is when we use a divorce as something to empower us, to find the gifts, to have our lives be better after divorce than before, or when we were married because so many people, as you know, remain victims. They remain pissed off. They remain, you know, in the state of, you know, just being devastated. And so "spiritual divorce" is how can we use this as a catalyst to have an extraordinary life.
KING: Is the role of the divorce lawyer first to attempt to save the marriage?
NEAL HERSH, DIVORCE ATTORNEY: In a word, yes, we always ask if there's any possibility of that and if people want counseling. But in fact, in the 30 years I have been doing this, by the time people get to my office, they have worked through their issues and they've come to a decision to get divorced.
KING: Why do so many lawyers say, I would never want to be a divorce lawyer?
HERSH: And I don't think I want to be anything else.
KING: You know that other lawyers say that.
HERSH: You know it's -- you either love it or you hate it.
KING: Why do you love it?
HERSH: Because I actually think we are doing a service to people. I think it's the most interesting field of law because of so many different aspects in human condition and law and issues across the board. And it's fascinating, high-paced and fast-paced. It's just a fantastic profession.
KING: But an angry divorce is terrible, isn't it? HERSH: You know, yes, there are times when it's very stressful for the lawyers, when it's stressful for the clients. But generally, that is cyclical and it doesn't last for a prolonged period of time. And in point of fact, in large part, long after the divorce is started, a few months after, most people -- not long after, certain months after the divorce is started, people come to their senses and have a more practical approach.
KING: Do you like the idea of this show, "First Wives"?
HERSH: I think it's interesting. I think it's an interesting idea. I don't think, you know, getting even is the object. And I don't think that's what they're trying to achieve. But I don't...
KING: You're not trying to achieve getting even?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not at all.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: The car out of the plane is a gimmick.
ANGIE EVERHART, CO-HOST, "THE EX-WIVES CLUB": Well, you know, that makes good TV, entertainment.
FORD: I mean I think the process -- the producers decided to throw the car out of the plane so that -- because people want revenge. We know that. They want revenge. They feel angry. And so it's just really to give everybody a release. But there's other ways to release.
EVERHART: We don't condone doing harm.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Suze Orman, what part in the divorce picture does finance play?
SUZE ORMAN, BEST-SELLING FINANCIAL GURU: Well, in my world, it plays an incredible part. I will forever believe that the number one reason for divorce usually is arguments over money. And when it comes to women in particular, they have regrets later on in life because they weren't as aggressive as they should have been during the divorce. They thought if I'm nice, he'll come back to me. Oh, my God, he'll forgive me, whatever, and they are so angry at themselves because they didn't really go for it. So money plays a significant role in divorce.
KING: Marla, should you have gotten more?
MARLA MAPLES, DONALD TRUMP'S EX-WIFE: I should have known Suze as my best friend.
KING: Should have gotten more? MAPLES: I needed these girls by me and Suze Orman for sure.
ORMAN: Yes, she should have gotten more.
KING: So you think you got...
MAPLES: Let me just tell you, I told Donald from the beginning, I'm not here for the money and I stayed true to that and he stayed true to it also.
KING: Shar, do you get your fair share from Kevin?
SHAR JACKSON, CO-HOST, "THE EX-WIVES CLUB": You know I...
KING: You weren't married.
JACKSON: We weren't married. But you know like I said he takes care of his kids. I don't want anything from his personally. As long as he takes care of his kids is all that matters to me.
KING: How do you feel because you had that one three-month marriage? Did you get anything out of that?
EVERHART: No, I had to pay him.
KING: Many wives pay husbands?
HERSH: Under the right circumstances, if they make more, absolutely it can go that way, sure. California is a gender neutral state, so it certainly can happen that way, and apparently it did.
FORD: And that's why Suze is here to tell us to hold on to our money.
KING: We have an email question from Kellen in Larkspurr, California: "Please ask Debbie Ford what's the key in finding the gift in being dumped? Why would I want to find the gift in being rejected?"
FORD: Well, I feel like there's two ways to do it. We're either going to use what happens to us to bring us down or we're going to use it to lift us up. And so finding the gift is a blessing. They'll tell you that people -- it's amazing, Larry, I worked with tens of thousands of people and people all of a sudden realize that they wanted something more in life, whether they wanted to go out and have a career, or whether they wanted to spend more time with their children, or whether they wanted to let go of being dependent and become independent and take control of their money. So there is a gift in every painful situation, whether it's divorce or death or, you know, addiction.
KING: How big a part does money -- what's the average -- is money a big part of divorce?
HERSH: It's huge. I mean in large part, money is the operative factor in divorce. The division of community property is about money, child support, spousal support, attorney's fees. It's all about money. Now, on the other side of that, there are issues of custody when children are involved that have something to do with money per se and most are very big issues.
KING: Suze, do you advise women on protecting themselves financially pre-divorce?
ORMAN: Of course. It's -- you know the reason that lawyers come into play is that afterwards everybody is like, now who's going to get what? If that can simply have been decided prior to it -- so I am a firm believer, always have been, always will be, in a prenuptial agreement, one that is really constructed correctly, however, because most people don't know they need an individual lawyer. They don't know what to put into it and what not to. But I think a prenup -- if you really love somebody, the time to plan for what-if is when you're in the state of love not when you're in the state of hate.
KING: It's not very romantic though, is it?
(CROSSTALK)
MAPLES: I think it's contraire. And that's what was one of my biggest -- what are we stepping into? Are we really going to commit ourselves to this lifetime? It had a very negative impact on our relationship and our marriage.
KING: Do you recommend them, Neal?
HERSH: Absolutely. I think they're critical and I think people...
KING: To women too?
HERSH: Sure, everybody. I think if you want to order your lives, you put it down on paper. And everybody would say, gee, you know, take me at my world. I believe that if your word is as good as your bond, you'll put it on paper.
(OFF MIKE)
KING: I don't have -- I believe in -- hey it is what it is. I don't have one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think just love...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Donald thinks it's idiotic not to have one.
HERSH: One out of two marriages end in divorce. Two out of three second marriages end in divorce, so divorce is more likely than not to happen. And prenuptials are just good planning for both sides for divorce.
KING: We'll be right back with more. We'll include your phone calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Heather Locklear and Former Miss Universe Dayanara Torres are two more members of "The First Wives Club" who had to watch as their hubbies said bye-bye to them and hello to the next Mrs. Right. Heather is wife number one to Bon Jovi's Richie Sambora.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It appeared that Richie left Heather for her best friend, Denise Richards.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Miss Universe Dayanara Torres feels that pain. She married Latin singing sensation, Mark Anthony, not once, but twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very quickly after his marriage ended with Dayanara, within months, he was with Jennifer Lopez and walking down the aisle again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You went through a divorce during all of this. Was that hard?
KIM CATTRALL, ACTRESS: Divorce is very hard. Divorce is the end of a dream and it's the death of a relationship. It's very difficult.
HEATHER MILLS, ACTIVIST: Everyone knows that when you go through a divorce, it's a really difficult time for both parties. You both believe that you put your best into it.
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Everything I had to get, I had to fight for. Nobody ever turned to me and said, "Let's work this out." The answer to every request was no, no, no, no. So it was just a fight for everything. That was exhausting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Before we take some phone calls, this is an appropriate time to ask Neal Hersh who represents Kim Basinger, is that ever going to be resolved?
HERSH: Like all things, yes, it will. Hopefully it will come to a conclusion in the near future. We're hopeful.
KING: Do you get along with his attorney?
HERSH: We have a professional relationship.
KING: I know you're not going to get into detail but you are saying it will be resolved? For the sake of the child, it would be logical to be resolved. Isn't that your prime interest, the child? HERSH: When we do custody cases, we always have the best interest of the child at heart and that remains foremost in our mind.
KING: Let's get a call from our talented group here.
College Park, Maryland, hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Larry, love your show.
KING: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Shar, this question is for you. How did you feel when you saw pictures of Britney Spears with your children? And has Britney Spears ever tried to contact you?
JACKSON: As far as her contacting me, no, not really. I mean we really don't have too much to talk about. So I mean we're cool. We're social if we see each other. But we don't reach out and have tea or anything. And...
KING: How about seeing her with your kids?
JACKSON: ...I mean it was hard. It was hard seeing, you know, the new woman with my kids. But I'm a trooper, you know what I mean and I knew their dad was there and they were in good hands.
KING: How did he explain it to you? Did he just say, "I met another person?"
JACKSON: I mean it really wasn't explained. Honestly, Larry, you know, I read it in a magazine, kind of. I mean -- it really wasn't...
KING: So when he came over the house...
JACKSON: It wasn't explained. When he came to the house, it was a different story than what it was.
KING: Have you had anyone leave you, Marla?
MAPLES: Hello? I don't like to dwell on those.
KING: Did you have a relationship leave you?
MAPLES: I had a relationship that -- I've had a lot of broken hearts, let's put it that way. I think any time you love, and whether you walk away or someone walks away from you, you're going to hurt, bottom line. So yes.
KING: Angie?
EVERHART: Have I been dumped? Sure, I think.
KING: An average person would think that attractive people don't get dumped. EVERHART: You know, I was telling the girls the other night I got stood up. You know it does happen. I'm human. People do make mistakes, you know...
KING: Debbie, what about you? Have you have been dumped?
FORD: I've definitely been dumped. I think that's why I could write "Spiritual Divorce." You know I had to write because -- and that's why we could be on the "The Ex-Wives Club."
KING: Why don't you write a dumper's manual?
FORD: Yes, the dummies way to get over being dumped. You know I think that people -- you know we take it so personally. Usually it's not even personal that we get dumped. You know we want different things. We're different types of people. And I think if we took our own advice and we were all responsible for our lives, we would plan it out because, you know, half of us are going to wind up either dumping somebody or being dumped once again.
KING: Suze, it seems ridiculous not to have money plans, doesn't it? I mean it seems absurd.
ORMAN: Well, you know, I was sitting there listening to Neal and the things that Kim and everybody is fighting over like in the divorce that he's doing is that's money -- people want money. I mean what else are you fighting about? I want the vase. I want the house. I want the car. I want this, I want that. So of course you should plan for it.
Money is a very -- you know "m" just doesn't stand for marriage. It also stands for money. And money is key here. It's key to it. And a lot of the healing, a lot of women who get divorced, I'm telling you, if they were secure, financially speaking, if they were able to have a car, have a home, have a life, it wouldn't hurt as much because at least they could have a life. But instead they're divorced. They've lost their love and their lives, financially speaking. So yes, money is key.
KING: Suze Orman, a true money girl.
ORMAN: Always.
KING: Back with more in a moment but first a quick note to our viewers, tomorrow night I sit down with Nancy Reagan for a rare one- on-one interview. And as we go to this break, one of many memorable moments from that interview with the former first lady.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How much do you miss him?
NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIST LADY: Ronnie?
KING: How long has it been now? I can't remember. It seems like yesterday. REAGAN: I know. To you maybe. No, there are people who told me that it gets much easier. Well, maybe for them but not for me. I miss him more now than I ever did. I remember more now than I ever did, all of the little things that we did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Was it true that you once thought of taking your own life? Was that ever true?
HALLE BERRY, ACTRESS: Yes, yes, sad but true.
KING: What was the situation?
BERRY: Divorce.
NICOLE KIDMAN, ACTRESS: And you have to be very, very grown up when there are two children involved. And you can't -- you must get yourself together and move forward and you're still a family.
KING: But Tommy's only married?
PAMELA ANDERSON, ACTRESS: Tommy is my only married. I married him four times. Thank gosh, I didn't have to get divorced four times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Debbie Ford, Halle Berry mentions suicide. Have you heard of this?
FORD: So many times.
KING: Suicide over a breakup?
FORD: Yes. People -- heartbreak is the most devastating thing. It rocks the very foundation, especially I think for women because women, we all think like one day we're going to meet our Prince Charming and live happily ever after. And that's why it's so important people use it as a spiritual experience and have a healing of the heart because otherwise they can wreck their whole lives and their kids' life as well.
KING: Ever have that threatened in one of your divorce cases?
HERSH: Sure, absolutely.
KING: It's not uncommon?
HERSH: It's not common but it does happen. And we have to deal with it when it does arise.
KING: Orange, California, hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, how's everyone doing?
KING: Fine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. Well, kudos to you ladies for doing this show. I saw it for the first time and I'm absolutely going to be a huge fan.
KING: That's "The Ex-Wives Club." It's on every Monday night on ABC. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to say you all look fabulous. And I was wondering just in the recent months there seems to be a huge slew of celebrity divorces. And having come from high-profile relationships yourselves, how much do you feel the media tension really does play into the demise of these relationships?
KING: Shar?
JACKSON: Yes, it's not sexy. I mean seriously, the media adds so -- it's already a hard situation to go through and then to have people making up stories on top of it and saying what they want and covering...
KING: A lot of what you read is untrue.
JACKSON: Yes, most of it is untrue.
KING: Most is untrue.
JACKSON: And it's insane. It makes things so hard.
EVERHART: I have, in the press, dated so many people that I don't even know personally.
JACKSON: Yes, yes.
EVERHART: So...
KING: You must have had a ton of things printed about you.
MAPLES: You know it was so out of control. And my biggest mistake is thinking I could change it.
JACKSON: Yes.
MAPLES: And you need to -- as Angie says, don't read it, don't look at it and don't spend your life trying to change it. And...
KING: Why is there so much vultures -- why is there such, Neal, interest in this? Why do people care about Lou divorcing Sadie? Who cares?
HERSH: Well, look, I mean we live in a very media-savvy age and we like to build up our stars as high as we can and we like to see them fall. Nobody calls my office and asks me for a little bit of good news today. They want bad news and they only want bad news about celebrities. So the media has an interest because the public has an interest.
KING: Isn't that sad, Suze?
ORMAN: Yes, it's very sad. And you know what are you going to do? And I think people who aren't celebrities actually get relief when they say oh, it can happen to them, because it's happening to every single person out there. It's actually -- you know divorce is worse than death. When somebody dies, you go, oh, my God and somehow you accept it better. But when you are going through a divorce, it is 10 times, from what I found from the people who call into my show, 10 times more painful than suffering a death.
KING: We'll have more when we take a break and come back. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After their divorce in January 2005, Brad wasted no time getting over Jen. In a matter of months, Brad was hot and heavy with "Mr. & Mrs. Smith" co-star Angelina Jolie. Two kids and four kids later, the Jolie/Pitt clan is hard to escape. No one will ever know how the first Mrs. Pitt really feels about her ex, but she let the world know that life would go on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Demi Moore, first wife to Bruce Willis, and now first wife to Ashton Kutcher, who is 15 years her junior.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's bravo. She looks better than ever and she's with this much younger, really hot guy, that any one of us would be thrilled to be with. So she's a really good example of a first wife who just spun it on him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And "The Ex-Wives Club" does try to bring closure, right?
FORD: Yes.
KING: So that they go on?
FORD: That's what we're really there for...
JACKSON: Absolutely.
FORD: ...to help people look at the past, get out their emotions, make peace with it, get present to what they need to do. And then the girls take them and support them in creating these fabulous lives.
KING: Guyton, Georgia, hello?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I'd like to ask Marla a question.
KING: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Marla, what do you think Donald's response is going to be to your appearance on the show tonight and also to your new "Ex-Wives Club" shows?
MAPLES: He's already made a couple of statements, actually. So we're already seeing...
KING: You praised him.
MAPLES: ... you know all I believe in -- I believe in only speaking positive about people that have had such a powerful position in your life. It never helps to speak negative. And what I really try to do always is to speak as positive as I can. We have to see the good side and that's the way to have closure. I mean if you hold on to your victim, you hold on to your anger, you hold on to a sense of intimate betrayal, you're never going to have closure.
KING: People who are having problems getting divorced, want help, do they contact ABC or "The Ex-Wives Club," just call ABC?
MAPLES: They can go to ABC.com, go to ex-wivesclub.com.
FORD: They can watch the show. The show is really transformational TV. I mean people will see catharsis and get hope. We're already seeing that.
KING: Why don't you have Suze Orman come on or help with finances?
FORD: Yes.
KING: Or have Neal come on and represent clients?
(CROSSTALK)
KING: I'm trying to solve the whole situation.
Thank you all very much.
HERSH: Thank you.
KING: "The Ex-Wives Club.
On last night's show, we asked you: "Have you ever taken revenge on an ex?" Eighty-nine percent of you said yes. The other 11 percent voted no.
Next Monday, so-called suicide doctor, Dr. Jack Kevorkian is our guest on the show. So tonight's text question is should doctor- assisted suicide be legalized? Text vote from your cell phone to CNNTV. That's 26688. Text KINGA for yes and KINGB for no. And tomorrow night, a special hour with Nancy Reagan. You will not want to miss that. Jack Hanna and the animals return on Friday night. And that's always a load of fun.
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