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CNN Larry King Live
Interview With Daniel Baldwin
Aired July 18, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Daniel Baldwin fighting for his life. Brother of Alec, Stephen and Billy, self-described diehard -
Tonight, Daniel Baldwin fighting for his life. Brother of Alec, Stephen and Billy, self-described diehard -
Technical difficulties affected the opening of this program. It will have no more effect during the rest of this show. Daniel Baldwin will be with us shortly discussing a lifetime of self-described addiction. He calls himself a diehard cokehead. Daniel Baldwin will be with us in a little while.
But tomorrow night our special guest will be Tammy Faye Messner, there is always great interest in Tammy Faye and we taped the interview earlier this afternoon and we wanted to show you just a portion of what you'll be seeing tomorrow night so watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Good evening. Great pleasure to welcome a return visit, always a welcome return visit, with Tammy Faye Messner, the former wife of televangelist Jim Bakker, former co-host of "The PTL Club." She's been waging a long battle with inoperable cancer.
With her is her husband, Roe Messner. He's also a builder of churches, and he says he's built more than 1,700 churches since 1953. Roe will be joining us in the third segment. We're going to spend the earliest segments with Tammy Faye.
How are you doing there?
TAMMY FAYE MESSNER: I'm doing pretty good, considering the circumstances, Larry.
KING: You are in Kansas City, Missouri. That's -- what are you doing there? Why there?
T. MESSNER: We just moved. Roy's job -- why did I call you Roy? My husband's children and grandchildren are all within 100-mile range of the area, and I felt it would be -- it's his turn to be with his grandchildren and his children.
KING: All right. You posted a letter recently on your Web site saying that you've gained a little bit of weight, and that you're craving a burger and French fries with lots of ketchup. Can you eat that? T. MESSNER: No I can't eat it. All I eat is chicken soup and rice pudding. But I'm looking forward to the day when I can bite into that hamburger and those fries. I've gained five pounds. Yay!
KING: You're receiving hospice care at home?
T. MESSNER: Yes, I am.
KING: How does that work?
T. MESSNER: Well, it works where the person comes to your house and brings all the medications that you need. I have a wheelchair. Wheelchair and several other appliances.
KING: We have a lot of emails for you today, as you might imagine. One comes from Debbie in Fredrickson, Canada.
T. MESSNER: Hi, Debbie.
KING: The question is, my prayers are with you, Tammy Faye. What have the doctors said to you about how much time you may have left?
T. MESSNER: I asked them not to tell me. I don't want my faith level to go down. And so I don't -- I don't know. That's in God's hands.
KING: Do you fear the worst?
T. MESSNER: I don't fear. I'm concerned, Larry, but I don't fear.
KING: Are you in pain?
T. MESSNER: All the time.
KING: The pain is where?
T. MESSNER: It's in my back, and in my tummy.
KING: The cancer is where?
T. MESSNER: It's in my lungs.
KING: Is it staying in the lungs, or has it spread from the lungs?
T. MESSNER: Pardon me.
KING: Sure.
T. MESSNER: It's -- it's stayed in the lungs.
KING: Now, you've always been so upbeat, the feeling of God being with you. Does that remain? T. MESSNER: That remains in the system (ph). I talk to God every single day, and I say, God, my life is in your hands. And I trust you with me.
KING: We have an email from Renee in Strongsville, Ohio. "I admire you for your unshakable faith. Do you believe when you leave this Earth, you're going to go to a better place?"
T. MESSNER: I believe when I leave this Earth, because I love the Lord, I'm going straight to heaven.
KING: Did you ever know Ruth Graham, who recently passed away?
T. MESSNER: You know, I didn't. I knew Billy quite well, and he said that -- someone else that works for him said that him and Ruth told him, that he prays. They pray for me every single night.
KING: Frankly, Tammy, dear, we've known you so long and you've been with us so many times. Are you still a little scared?
T. MESSNER: A little bit. For my children, mostly.
KING: It would not be for yourself.
T. MESSNER: For myself, I know I've had it. But I know that sadness, you know, when it comes, we both take care of our children (ph).
KING: How are your children?
T. MESSNER: They're doing great. Jamie is still in the youth ministry, and Tammy Sue works for Roe.
KING: Concerning that, we have an e-mail from ...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: That's a portion of our interview with Tammy Faye Messner. It will air in its entirety tomorrow night. Really sad in a way, not in a way, it is sad. Daniel Baldwin is here and he's next, and we'll talk with him right after these words.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE Daniel Baldwin who is literally fighting for his wife, he is the brother of Alec, Stephen and Billy, self-described diehard coke head. He survived an overdose, multiple arrests, nine stints in rehab, an 18-year battle with drug addiction. He's now gone public about his darkest personal moments.
Why did he let those cameras film that last-ditch stab at staying clean? It was a subject of an incredible ABC event last night on ABC's "Primetime." Why did you come forward like that?
DANIEL BALDWIN, ACTOR: Well, I felt that in past sobriety they talk about your experience, your strength and your hope, and I thought that it was an opportunity to get out of myself and try to help other people get sober, you know. I mean, it's a bit of a double-edged sword being a celebrity and being an actor as I'm sure you know. Your public laundry is constantly aired out and I thought that maybe I could do some good. There might be somebody who watched their show or a lot of people I hope that have someone in their family that needed help.
KING: You have a not spoken about it before?
BALDWIN: Not anything like this. Obviously because of, you know, previous problems I've had, I've had to address the issue before, but, you know, so many people, they pay a publicist and they run and hide from this, and the fact of the matter is I did do a lot of things that they said, and I'm responsible for them, and I'm sober today, and I'm working really, really hard by the grace of God and I thought maybe I could help someone else.
KING: Let's take a look at an excerpt from last night's ABC "Primetime" series "Family Secrets." Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alone, unemployed, deeply in debt to the IRS, Baldwin faces years in prison if he can't stay sober.
BALDWIN: It's cost me a lot. My little son Atticus desperately needs his dad, and I haven't been there for him because he needs me. Sorry. I'm -- that was a little bit of a hard thing for me about my son.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But for Daniel Baldwin those tears are just the beginning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: This may be impossible, Danny. Do you know why you got addicted?
BALDWIN: No. I mean, I don't know. I know that there's a pre- disposition genetically that's been proven. For me I've never been, you know, attracted to alcohol very much or any other drugs. When I found cocaine, I had an immediate love affair which went way beyond what the normal recreational drug user does, you know. It spiraled very quickly for me.
KING: And all the punishments didn't help?
BALDWIN: No, you know. I mean, for me they talk about having a bottom that you reach, you know, and I've continued to reach a lesser bottom each time, and fortunately for me this time it wasn't because -- I didn't go to court and they remanded me. Way before this ever happened where I got in trouble I knew I was in trouble again and I reached out and went into Renaissance Malibu, a rehab in Malibu run by Dr. Daniel Gatlin just a brilliant man who really helped me and catered my treatment around my issues and my stuff that I needed to address. KING: Why, Daniel, didn't the previous rehabs work?
BALDWIN: Well, I think that number one I didn't apply myself as hard as I should.
KING: You failed at it?
BALDWIN: I believe that I did, yes. For me it hasn't really been where I am right now. Where I am right now I'm pretty good at. You know, I understand that there's a problem. I'm addressing it. I'm doing the work that I have to do. Let me give you an analogy. If the American public heard that I had some kind of dreaded cancer but that I could stay in remission if I went and got chemotherapy and decided to go golfing twice a week on days I was supposed to go get chemo you would say that guy is a schmuck and I don't real really bad for him. You know what? I was a schmuck. I didn't go to the meetings I need to go to, I didn't report into my sponsor and didn't take the necessary steps I needed to in order to stay in remission.
KING: Why? Because you liked the cocaine more?
BALDWIN: No I don't think that's it. This is my disease and it's right here in front of me right now and I'm looking at that disease and I'm addressing it on a daily basis. You get a little time in and you start working more on movies and you start doing things and every after a little while I'm not going to the meetings and doing what I need to do to keep it here and suddenly it's out of my peripheral vision and it smacks me in the back of the head and I have a problem and I relapse.
So the goal for me now is to go one day at a time and I used to hate that saying. People would say, you know, you just take it one day at a time and I would be like, you're so full of crap. What does that mean, one day at a time. It's a show Valerie Bertinelli does, that's what I thought and it really is that simple for me. I need to just get through the rest of today and by 12:00 tonight by the grace of God I'm pretty sure I'm going to say sober and I say pretty sure because I don't take anything for granted anymore, you know.
KING: What do you do when a need exists?
BALDWIN: You have to reach out. For me, for the type of addict I am, when I start getting those swirly thoughts and stuff, and they talk about slippery places, slippery people and slippery things, you know, I need to -- I needed to take my cell phone and eliminate all the phone numbers, change the phone numbers so no one I knew before could call me or reach me. You need to go and do in a surrender mode and the word end is in the word surrender and it's not a coincidence.
I needed to end those behaviors. In the continuum in recovery of relapse being here and recovery being here, every second of every day I'm moving towards one of the two. There's a lot of behaviors before you actually end up relapsing and using and drinking again. It's those behaviors that I need to stay in front of me and keep, you know, my disease where it needs to be.
KING: Do you do 12-step?
BALDWIN: Yes, I do.
KING: Does it help a lot?
BALDWIN: It does. It does help quite a bit. It's actually a great way of life if you take out the fact that in the first step it talks about being powerless in your life and it has become unmanageable. We're really powerless about what happens around us. How much can I affect what other people do and stay and how behave and stuff?
KING: You talked about your boy in the special. What did it do to your family?
BALDWIN: I think I'm in a situation where I think people are holding some breath some. It's nice to see ...
KING: Are you married?
BALDWIN: I'm engaged. Jo and I are having a baby, and, you know, she's not somebody that's in the limelight or works in my business, so she prefers to stay out of that, you know, and doesn't really like ...
KING: How about your son?
BALDWIN: My son Atticus just turned 11 years old. I don't know how much directly, you know, he knows at 11 years old, but certainly, you know, my fathering in absentia has affected him.
KING: It has?
BALDWIN: Oh, absolutely.
KING: How old is he now?
BALDWIN: He's 11.
KING: We have an e-mail question from Debbie in Skeekston, Missouri. "Did ABC pay Daniel in any way for taking part in the special? I had to turn the channel about halfway through. I had the overwhelming feeling that he may have been acting."
BALDWIN: Wow. No, to Debbie. I was not compensated in any way, shape or form. I did it because I thought that it would be something that would help other people and I'm not that good an actor.
KING: Some people in 12 step think that anonymity is one of the keys to it and you break that tonight.
BALDWIN: Yeah. I do, but remember something. I'm breaking my own anonymity so I'm allowed to say, as far as how I understood it. Now I've been approached by other people in the program saying if you relapse again, you're saying that this program doesn't work and that's what you're advertising. I disagree. I believe that this is the only thing known. That's why our judicial system remands people to go to 12-step recovery meetings in order to order somebody to try to stay sober as they were incarcerated for drug-related charges as I was.
I believe that the anonymity means if Debbie lives between you and I and you lean over the fence one day and you say did you hear Debbie was in AA and I saw her in a meeting or in some 12-step, I don't have the right to tell you that. That's what I believe the anonymity means.
KING: Right back with Daniel Baldwin, brave and coming forward. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mother rushing to her son's bedside, no matter famous her children, all she can do is hope and pray doctors can help her second oldest child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went up to his bed and took his hand and I said, Daniel, what are you doing to yourself? You're killing yourself, and it was so hard as a mother to sit there and look at him and see and not knowing why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even though Daniel's 77-year-old mother can go months without hearing from her son it doesn't mean he's not on her mind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every time the phone rings after a certain hour at night, I sit by my bed really and pray that it's not about Daniel's death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Some show. We've got a quick vote for you on our Web site about substance abuse. Go to cnn.com/larryking to vote and we'll have the results for you later in the show. Did your brothers watch?
BALDWIN: Well, Stephen is in Bulgaria, Alec and Billy, Billy got the play by play by his publicist. He checked in with me here on the way in the car and I haven't spoken with Alec yet.
KING: How is Alec doing by the way after all that turmoil?
BALDWIN: He's doing better. You know, I think time heals a lot of things. I think that he got shafted on that whole deal with the message he left for his daughter. I think it's very unfortunate, you know, when I look in hindsight, had there been the police in my driveway the first time my daughter came home with alcohol on her breath, you know, I'd be in prison by those standards.
KING: So you think that they went overboard attacking him?
BALDWIN: I think that, you know, once again, if he wasn't, you know, a famous movie star and, you know, and his wife hadn't made that public issue, which -- which in it its own self did plenty of damage to their daughter. So I don't really understand what her motive is except to try to hurt him and all he's done is try to fight to be a good dad and be with his daughter for years now.
KING: We have an e-mail question for Daniel from Nancy in East Lafayette, Louisiana. "Daniel, I watched the special. Couldn't help but notice that your family doesn't seem very supportive of your rehab efforts. Is it possible to stay in recovery from long-term addiction without family help?"
BALDWIN: Well, I'll say that that's not true, that they are not supportive. I think that, you know, when you've been to rehab a number of times and you had a limited amount of success, you know, they are tentative as best so I think that's what she may have been picking up on.
To my family's credit they have rallied behind me now. They have seen I have months and I'm doing what I need to do to stay sober and those wounds take time to heal so, you know, I expect that those relationships will become, you know, better as time goes on and the trust is, you know, reinstituted in our lives together, but do you need to have your family? No. This is a selfless program, you know. This is about me. I didn't do this because I wanted to come do LARRY KING. I didn't do it because I wanted to, you know, to work more. I wanted to rehab and I got sober because I was going to die if I didn't.
KING: Your mother loves you.
BALDWIN: Yes, she does.
KING: Really nice. Do you remember the first time that you took cocaine?
BALDWIN: I do. I do remember the first time.
KING: How long ago?
BALDWIN: I can't say the person's name but it was a famous singer and I was at her house and it was myself and another guy and we walked in.
KING: You were how old?
BALDWIN: First time I ever smoked cocaine was 1989. I was in rehab six months later. That's how quickly it grabbed me. I literally walked in and this girl was really pretty and she had this funny little glass pipe and she said come in this room with me and it was like -- they talk about it in the addiction about how, you know, the elevator just goes to the penthouse, you know, and you're always ...
KING: It's that great a feeling?
BALDWIN: It was that, you know, euphoric and sensational and intense. Everything seemed, you know, better and everything else and obviously I never got back to that place so.
KING: And did you know then that you were hung?
BALDWIN: I knew pretty shortly thereafter ...
KING: Really?
BALDWIN: ... that I was. Like I said, I was in rehab six months after the first time I ever did it.
KING: And why didn't that rehab work?
BALDWIN: Oh, I wasn't ready. I went into rehab because I was doing ironically a TV series with Valerie Bertinelli and Matthew Perry and I was making all this money and I didn't want to lose my job. Many of the other times I've done rehab and tried to get sober to appease other people, you know, or to avoid, you know, further persecution or whatever or punishment from the law, and that's not why I did it this time. I did it this time because I'm just tired.
KING: What was it like to be arrested?
BALDWIN: It wasn't fun. It wasn't fun.
KING: How were you caught?
BALDWIN: Well, I was -- I actually borrowed a truck from someone who is a friend of mine from his cousin, and he didn't leave a note saying I had a truck so they set off the OnStar. The girlfriend came home that the truck was gone, called him up, my friend Kenny and said where's the truck and said I didn't give it to anybody. Unbeknownst to him it was given to me by who is another family member that I know very well and it was an instance that I had paraphernalia on me and the rest is history.
KING: They stopped you looking for a stolen truck and they found the paraphernalia?
BALDWIN: Those charges were dropped and the paraphernalia stuff stuck so I entered a thing called prop 36.
KING: What's that?
BALDWIN: It's a state-remanded program for people which will allow them to expunge if I complete the program, the charges off my record.
KING: Did you get them expunged?
BALDWIN: Well, I just graduated from the first level of prop 36 which is two meetings a week and I have to turn in UA tests and attend a certain amount of 12-step recovery meetings. KING: Did you do any time?
BALDWIN: I did. I was in for five days and I hated it. I absolutely hated it.
KING: I can't imagine, even five days.
BALDWIN: Even five days, you know, when you lose your freedom and you're in a tiny little cell and you have to urinate and defecate in front of guards and walk naked in shackles in front of other inmates to go to the shower and I'm thinking to myself, I'm laying there at night and praying why am I here? This is not what God had set out for me. I know it's not.
KING: Wouldn't that be enough to get you off it?
BALDWIN: Well, it is now. That was the last -- that was the last step.
KING: You would think.
BALDWIN: You would think that that bottom and those consequences and the humiliation would be something that would definitely propel you towards wanting to get sober because how much worse does it get than that besides dying?
KING: You suggest that when it comes to unleashing your demons success was more dangerous to you than failure. What do you mean?
BALDWIN: Well, like I said, right now, you know, in my life and in my sobriety and my path it's quite evident to me what it is I need to do, and I'm doing that on a daily basis. When it became in the past -- I had to look at what in the -- in the past of my life I failed that when it came to staying sober and I found the one commonality was that when I was successful, when I had some time behind me and what I was doing is deviating off the course of recovery and, you know, not doing what was necessary to stay sober anymore and success came with that because I believe that I will continue to work as long as I stay sober and I will be successful again as an actor.
That is all contingent on my staying sober and working my program. If I don't do that, I inevitably will end up in the same place I was.
KING: Daniel Baldwin is our guest. We'll include some phone calls for Daniel as well on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Tammy Faye Messner in its entirety tomorrow night. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: When I talk about the relationship with my father and the relationship with my kids and I think how sad I can become sometimes because of what I've done, but I have such horrible feelings of guilt and shame when it comes to what I've done and when I read that Bible sometimes and I pray and I get on my knees and I say please forgive me for what I've done, give me another chance, and it's a hard pill to swallow sometimes. It really is. I struggle with it a lot. Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Today I felt for the first time since I've been here like if I was on the outside, I actually might have wanted to use. A lot of the symptoms that have led to my previous relapses were -- they reared their ugly head today. I'm glad I'm where I am and I know that I'm not going to be leaving any time soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back with Daniel Baldwin. Where was that?
BALDWIN: That was -- I did a check-ins with a camera in my bedroom every day, like a little video diary for the "Primetime" special. That was in rehab.
KING: Well, I asked you this during the break. Why do you beat yourself up so much?
BALDWIN: And my answer to you then is the same as it is now. You know many people that are addicts in my business find one commonality and that's we're egomaniacs with an inferiority complex. And I think that, you know, I would subscribe to that -- to that magazine because it definitely depicts me accurately.
You know in that guilt and shame continuum, you know where I don't want to beat myself up too bad because I know what that can lead me to, but at the same time I want to be accountable for my actions. And I want to, you know, make things good at home with Jo and I want to make things, you know, right with my children. And I want to do the right thing, you know. But I'm sober and I want to be accountable. But at the same time, where do you draw that line before you're just beating the crap out of yourself?
KING: We have a King Cam question for Daniel Baldwin -- watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daniel, why do you think you can get the monkey off your back this time? What is different?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The King Cam question. Why do I think I can get the monkey off of my -- well, I would say that...
KING: What's different this time?
BALDWIN: Yes. I would say that the most prevalent factor that's different in my sobriety this time than any other time is I was never afraid of the drug before. I've never had any fear of the drug or really many of the circumstances around, you know the ramifications of my relapse.
KING: You were never scared.
BALDWIN: Yes. I just never -- you know, it was always kind of like, okay, well, yes, I have this problem and these circumstances are piling up, but I really didn't have any fear. And I'm quite humbled by what has happened to me now legally, what is happening to my reputation and certainly what health-wise it's come down to.
It got to the point where I was doing such amounts of this drug that, and I describe in the "Primetime" special, that I was actually getting numbness in my arm, in my left arm, you know, and pain in my chest. So I mean I was pre-cardiac arrest in the level of cocaine that I was using. And then, you know, that's -- that's about as bad as it gets before you actually kill yourself.
KING: Is cocaine easy to get?
BALDWIN: Very easy to get, yes.
KING: Very easy?
BALDWIN: Yes, it's very easy to get.
KING: Stonington, Connecticut who we take a call for Daniel Baldwin -- hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Larry, thank you for taking me.
KING: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daniel, hi. I really emphasize -- sympathize with the addiction. My question to you is to the average person who doesn't know much about anybody who has that kind of addiction because we all know we can smell alcohol from somebody, what is the symptom of a cocaine addict?
BALDWIN: I think that, you know without going into, you know, predicting what other people go through, I will say this: when you start leaving voice mails for someone and they don't return them and they usually do, when you start getting voice mails that are full for two, three days at a time, when people are missing work, missing appointments, constantly late, weight loss, but more importantly communication usually shuts down due to cocaine addiction.
KING: Do you know why?
BALDWIN: Do I know why?
KING: Yes.
BALDWIN: Because you're too busy doing the cocaine.
KING: But I mean when you're doing it you're tuned off from everything else? BALDWIN: Yes. You know one of the things about different drugs that people do and cocaine just being one of them is that whatever it is that you're feeling, and it is described from the Latin term dis- ease as a disease, so I'm at dis-ease about something that I'm feeling. And I don't want to feel that anymore so I'm going to go ahead and medicate myself so I feel differently. And one of the effects of doing cocaine is not really feeling anything.
Cocaine is used in dentistry and surgery as an anesthetizer. So you know I am literally anesthetizing my emotions and psychological discomfort by using cocaine.
KING: Can you act and perform with it?
BALDWIN: No, that's really hard to do. It hasn't been something that I've done. You know I mean I'd be lying to say I've never been coming off getting high when I was at work. So it was probably still in my system but I wasn't one that went to work and got high when I was at work.
KING: Is it impossible?
BALDWIN: Well, it would be really difficult, you know, to...
KING: Because your mind is not...
BALDWIN: ... yes. I mean I guess if I was just doing just an action scene or something and I had to run by a camera company, but to deliver dialogue and stuff like that. But that's not to say also that I didn't neglect how much sleep I should have had on, you know, previous days before I went to work or I didn't look like hell or, you know, I wasn't properly -- you know, eating properly, you know, nutrition wise.
KING: What effect on relationships?
BALDWIN: Yes. It's a corrosive acid, you know. I mean, it burns everything in its path, you know. It burns up your ability to communicate, your ability to feel, you know. You don't take things that you would normally put at the top of your list as far as prioritizing things, you know. You don't care about anything else but getting high.
KING: Daniel Baldwin is our guest on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I believe what's going to probably happen today in court will be he wants to review what kind of program it is, am I going to meetings, recovery meetings. And he'll probably remand me back over to Renaissance, but there may be a twist to it.
BROOKE ANDERSON, "PRIMETIME" CORRESPONDENT: There's more than a twist. Baldwin was counting on his voluntary stay in rehab to convince the judge he's mended his ways. But the judge didn't buy it. Despite the fact that it's New Year's Eve, a shocked Daniel Baldwin is going to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan and Tara Conner are American royalty whose loyal fans watch their every move. But for each of these three high-profile role models, the latest move has been rehab. Fresh out of treatment, Spears now joins Lohan and Conner on the outside where the world will see whether these women in fact, ultimately, can become positive rehab role models.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Hollywood, there you see it live. These days it's not just Tinsel Town more like a city of 12-steppers. Speaking of that, we've got an interesting e-mail from Bob in Atlanta. He asks, "Why do you think so many celebrities seem to feel compelled to go public about doing rehab? Lately, it's started to seem like going to rehab is a career move, a way of kind of getting publicity."
BALDWIN: Well, I don't think that if you asked anybody who has this disease or has a problem, you know that they wanted this. And I didn't wake up one morning and said, hey, you know what I think would be a great thing to do, I'm going to become a cocaine addict, and be miserable, and screw my whole life up. That didn't happen. That wasn't really a choice that I consciously made.
But I will say that there are some people who I believe go into rehab to save their career or go in and then they, you know, make great publicity of it. That wasn't the case with me. When this came to fruition from "Primetime 20/20" and ABC to do this thing, I really did think that -- you know I was uncompensated and I thought it would be help other people. That's why I agreed with the Renaissance Malibu to do it.
But I will say this: a guy in a meeting, the first meeting that I ever left Renaissance Malibu to go to an outside meeting, they encourage employees and friends to come sign you out, and they take you to a meeting. So I went to this meeting and the meeting was about the level of anonymity at the level of press, radio and films in the 12-step recovery program. And so I had just been approached to do this special. And I put my hand up to share in the meeting. So of course I shared that, you know, I'm in this situation now where I've been asked to do this and I'm wondering whether or not this will help other people, and should I do this.
You know, at the same time, let's look at, yes, let me finish the story. So these two guys that shared after me put their hands up and going you so-called celebrities go into rehab and then come out and get arrested six months later. And all it does is says that this program doesn't work. So you know I hear him and I hear another guy bash me in the teeth with his fist at this meeting. And I walk out in the parking lot, of course, and OK now they want to be my friend, you know. So they walk up and they say, "Hey, sorry we had let to you have it with both barrels like it, but it really does send out, you know, a bad message." And I went, "Let me tell you something. You have 15 years sobriety and if you go out tomorrow and pull out a moon shadows in your car drunk and you get pulled, you're on page 27 of 'The Malibu Times.' You're a blur about the size of my fingernail. I relapse and I'm on the front page of the 'New York Times.' Why shouldn't my recovery be equal to my relapse? Why shouldn't I let people out there know that I'm doing well and that I'm saying sober right now? I don't think that there's anything wrong with that provided I don't out anybody else and I don't make any comments about anybody else's sobriety because the fact of the matter is what I do for a live, and as you well know as a celebrity, it gets out into the papers. And I don't mind people knowing that I am sober and I'm doing really, really well.
KING: Do you go to AA meetings?
BALDWIN: I go to 12-step recovery meetings.
KING: Similar, right?
BALDWIN: Yes, based on the 12 steps.
KING: And do you go frequently?
BALDWIN: Yes.
KING: Yes. And you get up and talk? Some members get up and talk? I mean I know the procedures.
BALDWIN: Sure.
KING: OK. How does that help?
BALDWIN: Well, I think that, you know, like anything it's the commonality that's involved, you know. I mean they tell you that when you really don't want to go to a meeting is the time when you should most likely be at a meeting because you really don't want to go, because my way got me where I am now, you know. So my way probably doesn't work, "thy will be done," if you will.
And when you go to those meetings, sometimes you sit in the meeting and you know what, you really don't get a lot at it, Larry. You sit there and go, OK; I have nothing in common with this guy. I don't know what he's talking about. I can't share any of my experiences. But you're going to go to a meeting where someone is going to turn around and they're going to tell your story and you're going to look at that guy and say, wow, that guy knows how I feel.
KING: I worked with a guy in radio a long time ago who had been sober 30 years and went to six AA meetings a week.
BALDWIN: Wow!
KING: You would think he had it licked.
BALDWIN: And he relapsed after?
KING: No. He just -- but I mean...
BALDWIN: But the fact that he had to keep it up.
KING: ...he still went.
BALDWIN: Well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Isn't that what they say? You know so this is what worked for him and this will be something that will be in my life forever because I don't ever want to find out what's going to happen again if I relapse. You know I just don't want to go there. I don't want to live like that. That's not life.
KING: Do you have moments of wanting cocaine?
BALDWIN: I have not since I've been out had moments where I so much wanted to do cocaine. I don't think I'm ever going to want to do cocaine again. I think what happens is that I don't want to feel the way that I feel. Certainly, that's already happened.
KING: We'll be back with more of Daniel Baldwin on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Daniel's youngest brother, Stephen, has 17 years of sobriety.
STEPHEN BALDWIN, DANIEL'S YOUNGEST BROTHER: Three strikes is one thing, 13 is another. I've been lumped up pretty good by the guy as a result of my expectation and my hope for him.
ANDERSON: But he hasn't given up on his brother and says he'll be there as long as Daniel keeps trying.
S. BALDWIN: This guy is a superstar. He really is. And Alec will say that and Billy will say that, and people who know him will say that. The key here is that Daniel needs to say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The quick vote on our website, CNN.com/LarryKing asks: who has the biggest problem with substance abuse, celebrities or non- celebrities? Right now 68 percent of the voters think everyone has problems, it doesn't matter if you're famous or not. Still time to vote, CNN.com/LarryKing.
That's pretty good. If you think about it though most people would say they thought celebrities would have a greater problem.
BALDWIN: No. I mean, there was a time when I got in trouble that I was asked, you know, is the pressure of doing what you do for a living and, you know, and everything, and I thought, you know, neo- natal nurses are under pressure, you know. I mean heart surgeons are under pressure. I mean I'm not under pressure. I'm an actor.
KING: You wanted to say something about what Stephen had to say when we were going out.
BALDWIN: Yes. Well, I mean, Stephen made the comment about, you know, that I need to say, you know, that I'm...
KING: Matter.
BALDWIN: ... that I matter or that I'm worth it, you know. And I realized that when I'm sober, you know, I do matter and that I'm a good person, that I'm a caring and loving child of God.
You know I did have one regret about this special last night and that was, you know, that -- it's funny to watch the continuum of the first month that I was there, and the second month, and the growth, you know, and settling in to being sober, and you know not being quite as anxious to be in front of a camera and everything. And I made such a foolish comment about saying, you know, I'm better than 90 percent of the other actors out there, blah, blah, blah, because you know what, I mean that comes from being afraid. You know that comes from fear of why is it that I'm where I am again now, you know, why aren't I working with some of my colleagues that are far more famous and successful than me? And I've gotten in my own way, you know.
So when Cynthia asked me that question, I do -- as I looked at it -- Jo and I both looked at it. Jo looked at me and said, God, you shouldn't have said that." You know and I realized, you know, as I watch it, like, wow, that was really a stupid thing for me to say.
KING: We have another King Cam question for Daniel Baldwin. Roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Daniel. I would like to know what your main inspiration is this time for going into rehab and also what a normal day consists of in a facility that costs $50,000 a month.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Well, I would say that staying alive is probably the answer.
KING: Good reason.
BALDWIN: Yes. You know I believe that I would like to stay alive, and I would like to reconnect with some of the people that I love and that love me.
KING: Is it 50,000 a month?
BALDWIN: Fifty thousand a month to go to Renaissance Malibu. And to answer what is the normal day...
KING: Yes. BALDWIN: ... you know I play 18 holes of golf and I eat caviar. No, actually, I think that what makes that place as expensive as it is is that unlike a lot of the other umbrella places that I was at -- when I say umbrella, everybody was treated the same. This is the meeting you went to. This is the type of therapy you did. This place was a 90-day model where most people were treated the same in the first 30 days. And then after that you did very extensive psychological examinations and therapy with Dr. Gatlin and your therapist there, your individual therapist, a lot of one-on-ones, a lot of group therapy where it continued to evolve and your program and your treatment continued to change based on what your needs and what was coming out in your rooms.
KING: That sounds exciting.
BALDWIN: It actually was very exciting. It was very therapeutic. And I got more done there than I did the previous other eight places I had ever been to.
KING: Back with our remaining moments and another phone call or two as well for Daniel Baldwin. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Daniel's connection to life seems to be returning as we film the chef in the rehab kitchen. Daniel takes over.
BALDWIN: This is Jo, our favorite cook.
ANDERSON: And it seems she's beginning to fall into some of his old patterns, already trying to bend the rules; and in this case, the rule that says no relationships in rehab.
BALDWIN: Not only do they bring us somebody who makes us great meals and tastes good and are nutritious...
ANDERSON: Baldwin is clearly flirting.
BALDWIN: ...she's really cute, too.
ANDERSON: And we'll find out later that this is the beginning of something bigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: It was so ridiculously lopsided towards me and not my other siblings, although they get smacked around from time to time. You know there were times when the hands started to close. And I know he loved me and I loved my father and I looked up to him and I idolized him in many ways.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he beat you up. BALDWIN: My father was an intense disciplinarian. That's as far as I'll go with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Another call in for Daniel Baldwin.
Seattle, hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Larry, how you doing?
KING: Fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to say thank you for telling the story, Daniel. Like you said, some people are the same. And you told my story. I would just like to know for one have you given yourself -- gotten yourself a higher power and given yourself a totally -- rendered yourself totally against that drug?
BALDWIN: Yes. I'm a born-again Christian as my brother Stephen is. And Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior. And you know like I said earlier to Larry, "thy will be done," you know. So I...
KING: Did this happen in this process?
BALDWIN: No, no, no. I was born again before that, which is one of the hard things for me in my path has been turning my back on God, you know. So that's been -- part of that guilt and shame continuum.
KING: Tell me about Jo, the cook.
BALDWIN: Well, you know, one thing I wanted to make clear is that we did not have any kind of relationship while I was in rehab there. You know our relationship started after I left rehab when it was, you know, perfectly legitimate. And she since then has stopped working there. And, you know, we love each other and we're engaged. And we're having a baby. So...
KING: The baby is due when?
BALDWIN: January 15.
KING: Do you know what it is?
BALDWIN: We're going to find out soon.
KING: Is that exciting again at your age, to have another one?
BALDWIN: Why? What are you insinuating? I'm 32 years old. No, I'm kidding. No, I mean at 46 years old, I hadn't thought, you know -- if you asked me a year ago was I going to be in love and a prospective father, I would have said probably not, you know. But you know what, she's a really good woman and she's going to be a really good mom. And I'm excited.
KING: I didn't think it at 65. BALDWIN: There you go.
KING: So one never knows. You got a new film coming?
BALDWIN: I did a movie called "Little Red Devil," which I shot in Detroit. And it will be coming out probably in the next couple of months. And I got a couple things, you know, on the burner right now to see whether or not I'm going to do them or not. So things are going well that way.
And I wanted to mention, too, I actually decided -- one of the other things you asked me, what was different about the sobriety this time. I've gone into a place. It's called Sober Villa Malibu. It's a high, high end condo complex that offers sober living facilities inside this condo complex in Malibu. You know and...
KING: We've got 15 seconds.
BALDWIN: ... my initial thing -- well, you know we've got only 15 seconds -- go ahead and Google ClubSoba.com.
KING: Club...
BALDWIN: Club S-o-b-a.com. And if you need help and you want to go and stay at some place that's going to help you stay sober, this is the place to go.
KING: Thank you, Daniel.
BALDWIN: God bless you, man. Thank you so much for having me.
KING: Best of everything.
BALDWIN: Yes.
KING: Tomorrow night on LARRY KING LIVE, Tammy Faye Messner. Even at just 65 pounds, she's still putting up a fight against cancer.
One more thing, have you been to our website, CNN.com/LarryKing. You can download our weekly podcast. You can submit a web cam question to one of my guests that the whole world can see you ask. And if you're camera shy, you can e-mail questions to my guest and join others around the world by participating in our quick vote questions. You can do all of that and more just by visiting our website, CNN.com/LarryKing.
And now we slash things over to New York. Do you like that little segue? Anderson Cooper and "AC 360."
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