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CNN Larry King Live

"Dog's" Reputation: How Badly Hurt?

Aired November 07, 2007 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, "Dog" the bounty hunter drops the "N" bomb in a private phone call...

DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN, THE BOUNTY HUNTER: I'm not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I've worked for for 30 years because some (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) heard us say (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) and turned us in to the 'Enquirer' magazine.


KING: And his public world explodes. His hit reality TV show is off the air, his reputation seriously damaged. The humiliating fallout from his racial slur, recorded and sold by his own son.

Duane "Dog" Chapman responds live -- uncut, uncensored, unreal.

It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

We are in Los Angeles with Duane "Dog" Chapman.

How are you -- how are you handling all of this?

D. CHAPMAN: I'm still alive.

KING: Other than that?

D. CHAPMAN: Not very -- not very good. I've been here several times sitting in front of you. Tonight, it felt like I was coming to the electric chair.

KING: Really?

D. CHAPMAN: I'm sorry -- to tell you personally, first of all, I'm very sorry. I know you had, also, a lot of faith in me. I'm very sorry for using that word. Please don't think any less of me. And I'm going to fix it.

KING: All right, let's discuss it.

What's in your head right now?

D. CHAPMAN: A way to fix this and where it would never happen again and, you know, how sorry I really am to say that. And try not to use any excuses why I would have said it, but to never say it again.

KING: How do you fix it?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, I will continue doing the things I've done working with, you know, interracial people. And I just have to -- I have some classes I have to go to. And I need to get a greater vocabulary than what I have, obviously. And when I get mad and my brain searches for "A" word, I have to find different words. And to do that, you have to be -- have more of an education. That's what (INAUDIBLE).

KING: This was the vocabulary, "Dog," that you've had all of your life?

D. CHAPMAN: Yes. You know, I've probably used and had that kind of vocabulary my whole life, yes.

KING: So you've had, would you say, a limited vocabulary, due to not a great education?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, if I could -- I graduated from the seventh grade, you know. I mean I dropped out of school -- and I don't want to blame it on that. I know right from wrong.

I'm not that kind of guy. I knew I probably should have never used that. But I thought I was cool enough to be able to use that. But to blame it on ignorance and unlearned, that's not -- no.

KING: It's tough to hear, but let's listen to a segment of the taped phone call that landed you in this world of hurt.

This is courtesy of the "National Enquirer," which, by the way, made the tape public.


D. CHAPMAN: I don't care if she's a Mexican, a whore, whatever. It's not because she's black, it's because we use the word n****r sometimes here. I'm not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I've worked for for 30 years because some f**king n****r heard us say n****r and turned us in to the "Enquirer Magazine." Our career is over. I'm not taking that chance at all -- never in life. Never. Never.


KING: How did you find out about this tape?

D. CHAPMAN: I was woken up like someone had passed away in my family. And Beth said Tucker tape recorded you at 4:00 in the morning. She woke me up and said Tucker had tape recorded me and called the "National Enquirer".

I knew that the "National Enquirer" had been hanging around me for about a year and I knew that, you know, anything you could say would be held against you. So...

KING: How was Tucker able to tape it? D. CHAPMAN: I was on the telephone with Tucker. I was very upset at him.

KING: And he had the tape on his end?

D. CHAPMAN: I believe so. Yes, sir. I haven't asked, really, how -- three party, six party or how it was done. I was talking to my son and bam, the next day -- this was in March, so about eight months ago this happened. And I wondered why he held it so long.

KING: Oh, it was that long ago?

D. CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.

KING: All right, what's the story between you and Tucker and this girl?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, Monique is Tucker's girlfriend. He hadn't introduced me to her for a long time. I had some suspicions that -- Tucker had just got out of prison. He went to prison at 18-years-old.

He did four years for an armed robbery and got a 20-year sentence.

So when Tucker got out, I immediately, you know, started being the dad I wasn't and said, you know, do this, do that. And I tried to take control of his life.

So I heard that this girl maybe was not being the best for Tucker -- and I'll leave it like that. So I tried to intervene inside there. And one day outside my office, these girls were going to jump Beth and tape record Beth and try to get her to fight.

KING: Your wife?

D. CHAPMAN: My wife, Beth. Right. And they had dressed -- four of the five had tank shirts on, these girls. So -- and one of them was Tucker's girlfriend. So I called him up and said, you know, what are you doing, son? What are you guys doing here?

And the whole idea was the "Enquirer Magazine" was trying to trap me using racial slurs or -- in the celebrity world, anything you can -- and you know this...

KING: But how did they know you might use those words?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, I'm sure they said here -- this guy, "Dog" has been to prison. You know, he's this rehabilitated guy. If anybody is a pin cushion for something to go wrong, I'm sure "Dog" is going to say that.

KING: Now the reason you didn't like -- or don't like -- your son's girlfriend is not that she's black?

D. CHAPMAN: No. I don't care -- you know...

KING: That has nothing to do with it?

D. CHAPMAN: Nothing to do with any kind -- any of that. I don't care if she's black at all. It was the -- you know, he's on parole for a 20-year sentence. If he messes up, he goes back. I didn't want him...

KING: And she's bad for him?

D. CHAPMAN: I thought, at the time. You know, now it -- I might change my mind, but at that time -- I mean he said, "Dad, I would never record you, I'm not doing this," as he's recording me. You know, "Dad, she's not bad for me," as now, is she or not?

I mean I don't know. But I tried to take control of him and...

KING: So you didn't like her -- you didn't like her for reasons that she would be bad for your son?

D. CHAPMAN: Exactly right. Not because of her color of her skin.

KING: All right.

Then why use the word?

D. CHAPMAN: Because I -- I referenced it, you know, back -- the only word that I know that would, you know, hurt his feelings or, you know, catch his attention very fastly -- never as a prejudicial or a racial slur or anything like that. None of my other children, my little daughter nine has never heard me say it.

KING: When you heard it used by others, did it bug you?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, if it's a pure white guy that would say, you know, look at that so and so. But with black guys that come up, you know, what's up, my "Dog?" And they'd say that word first. And then, of course, I would turn around and go hi, what's up my -- and scream it. But I'd like tuck my chest in. In the black community and I, some of the guys would call each other that, as brother to brother.

KING: Why did your son sell it to the "Enquirer?"

D. CHAPMAN: Well, you know, I -- I, you know, I don't know. I mean I...

KING: Did you ask him?

D. CHAPMAN: No. I tried to...

KING: You never asked him?

D. CHAPMAN: No, he will not talk to me. I mean he's mother -- you know, he's -- his mother is in on it with him and she's told -- you know, I've been away from her since the '80s and she's...

KING: That's your other wife -- not -- that's the first wife? D. CHAPMAN: That's the first wife. She's -- I've been away from her since the '80s, so now she's like getting even. And I'm afraid to call him or he'll call the police. I mean, you know, domestic violence is terrible, so I want to stay away from him. All I want him to know is that I love him very much.

KING: You knew it was coming in the "Enquirer" before the paper came out?

D. CHAPMAN: I knew it came out the night the "Enquirer" did not -- they don't call you and say we're going to bomb your house or anything.

KING: All right.

But you knew -- in other words, you knew it was out the night -- the day it came out?

D. CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.

KING: You didn't know it was coming?

D. CHAPMAN: I didn't know it was coming.

KING: All right.

And how did you -- how did you react?

D. CHAPMAN: I was like, oh, my God. At first I thought oh my god. You know, while people know it's the truth, I thought, you know, people know it's me. They know me.

KING: You didn't think anything would happen to you?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, I knew it would happen, but I went, oh, my God, here I have to explain now what -- why, you know, I think I'm cool with the black race. And I thought -- I was thinking, God, America just would never understand that. And then when it happened, I thought, you know, wait a minute. You know, people know me. They know that I'm not prejudiced and I'm not like that. And -- but the way it hit -- I mean every country, every station, everywhere. I mean it's like, you know, this is -- I deserve it, but I'm getting flogged, you know what I mean?

KING: Sure.

This was worldwide.

D. CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.

KING: We'll be right back with Duane "Dog" Chapman.

Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: Why we just, for proper edification, "Dog's" spiritual adviser, the Reverend Tim Storey -- who is black -- is standing by. He says he never heard you use the "N" word and if you didn't think it was wrong.

He'll be on later in the show.

Why didn't you use it around him?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, you know, he's the preacher. And I -- I


D. CHAPMAN: I do know it's wrong. I mean it's not "A" word that you should use -- even now, I've learned, in private. I thought I was cool enough, Larry, to be able to use that word amongst black people at certain times. You're not going to get out, you know, in a black area and yell that, because you're going to get busted up, right?

KING: You sure are.

D. CHAPMAN: But I thought I was cool with the certain people that I know and love that are black, that, you know, that can call me "whitey" and I can say -- you know what I mean?

KING: Yes.

Well, we'll hear from the reverend later.

We're going to play one more excerpt from the phone call with your son Tucker, which the "National Enquirer" printed.



D. CHAPMAN: If Lyssa was dating a n****r we would all say f*** you! And you know that. If Lyssa brought a black guy home ya da da. And it's not that they're black. It's none of that. It's that we use the word n****r. We don't mean you F****** scum n****r without a soul. We don't mean that s*****. But America would think we mean that. And we're not taking a chance on losing everything we got over a racial slur because our son goes with a girl like that. I can't do that, Tucker. You can't expect Gary, Bonnie, Cecily, all of them young kids to -- because I'm in love for seven months. F*** that!

So I'll help you get another job but you cannot work here unless you break up with her and she's out of your life. I can't handle that s***. I've got them in the parking lot trying to record us. I got that girl saying she's going to wear a recorder.

TUCKER CHAPMAN: That's not true. I don't even know what to say.


KING: Now there was a Lyssa mentioned. Who was she?

D. CHAPMAN: Lyssa is Tucker's biological mother.


The first wife?

D. CHAPMAN: Right. Oh, da Lisa (ph) is another one of the girls that were there. They were going to jump Beth. They had, I guess, a tape recorder on them and they were going to jump Beth. And as they were fighting, hopefully Beth would say something so the "National Enquirer" could print, you know what I mean?

So I was very upset.

What are you doing setting her up like that?

KING: Are you mad at the "Enquirer?"

D. CHAPMAN: Oh, dear Lord. They're a lie. I mean, they lie. I mean I'm -- you know, I'm...

KING: They're not lying here (INAUDIBLE).

D. CHAPMAN: Well, no, obviously -- finally, you know what I mean?

But, absolutely. I mean the guy's paying my kids to turn against me. He told my oldest son, I don't care if you lie or not, what -- tell me something about your dad. I mean they're just destroying me. I will not allow that. I mean this word could destroy me -- not them. But...

KING: Do you know what they paid Tucker?

D. CHAPMAN: I know they allegedly gave Tucker $15,000.

KING: And he needed that and he would sell his father out for $15,000?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, it's like less than 30 pieces of silver, I thought. I know he's bought a truck, a big screen TV and about probably broke by now. So...

KING: All right, were you surprised that A&E suspended the show?

D. CHAPMAN: No. Not -- I was surprised at first. And then when I turned to every channel and every newspaper and everywhere and everywhere, I was like, oh, my God.

KING: You think they're going to take you back?

D. CHAPMAN: I don't know. It's up to America. I'm like in the judgment seat now. I mean it's -- I want -- I want to come back. I'm going to some classes with Tony Robbins. I've got my preacher with me. I'm going to meet with the core group. I have met some fantastic black people. I talked to Mr. Ennis and his son. I talked to Al Sharpton's daughter.

I mean I've met some influential people that have said to me, "Dog," you need one-on-one tutoring. So -- and, you know, not to use the word and maybe some anger control management.

I think Amy is going to set a standard -- "Dog," if you can do this and you can prove and, you know, they're -- you know how they are. I mean, they're pretty strict, so.

KING: Have you talked to A&E?

D. CHAPMAN: I kind of have now, you know -- but other than I apologize and, you know, you can't -- I want America to forgive me before I can go to A&E with statistics and say...

KING: But how do the people of America forgive you?

Do you want them to write to A&E?

I mean what is...

D. CHAPMAN: Well, I just -- I don't know. I mean write to you. I don't know. I mean, yes, whatever you would do is, you know, come out and say we -- you know, we expect "Dog" never to say that word ever again. And we love "Dog" and know that he won't and that he's very sorry. And I don't mean to sound why I said it, but I've come a long way. And, Larry, it's tough to be a nobody and then work up to be a somebody. There's -- and some of the old things still hang onto you -- unfortunately, my vocabulary. And I know how you are, a very stern man. And I love you.

KING: Stern?

D. CHAPMAN: I know how you are. Yes, sir.

KING: I'm not stern.

D. CHAPMAN: And I'm not -- I'm trying not to swear. The "F" word, the "A" word, the "P" word, the "N" word -- I'm trying not to use any of those words. Then I won't be accustomed to just letting this stuff fly. I have quit swearing for four or five days. And now to hear the "F" word, when people use it, it kind of upsets me a little bit in my spirit.

I went ah, what are you saying?

And I thought today, you mean when I swore like that, that's what it meant to people?

And I don't want to ever hurt anyone.

KING: You were a swearer by nature?

D. CHAPMAN: I think I was a swearer by nature. Correct. Not -- I mean my parents didn't, you know?

KING: but you had a different life than them.

D. CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.

KING: By the way, if you head to our Web site,, we've got a quick vote for you -- do you think "Dog's" show should be off the air?

Do you think the show should be off the air?

Right now, 66 percent say no. There's still time for you to vote. You can weigh in at

Are you pleased that two thirds -- two third don't think you should be off the air?

D. CHAPMAN: Oh, absolutely. I want to say thank you so much. And I want it to get to 90 percent because then the other 10 percent are the fugitives. Do I don't care -- if I can hit 90, then I'll go to A&E and say, please, can I have my job back?

KING: We'll be meeting his other son in a little while. We'll be meeting his reverend.

We'll be back with more of "Dog" right after this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a racist word to say...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ...him using it every day. But I do say, it hurt me. It really hurt me because I always looked at "Dog," the bounty hunter, as a role model.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST: I have used many, many descriptive words to deal with a lot of different kind of people. And I'm guilty of that. And the only reason nobody is mad at me is because...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they ain't heard you.

GOLDBERG: Well, that's what my point is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they don't know about it.


KING: Are you surprised that everybody is talking about you?

D. CHAPMAN: Yes, very surprised that everyone is talking like that. Correct.

KING: Do you think it's fair to compare you to the comedian Michael Richards, who had that racist rant at his comedy appearance or Don Imus' remark about a basketball team?

D. CHAPMAN: What I've been through right now, I wouldn't compare anybody or judge anybody, because, my God, how did they make it through that?

KING: You wonder how did they make it through?

D. CHAPMAN: Yes. I would never judge them.

KING: An e-mail question from Laurie in Windsor, Ontario: "My son went out on Halloween as you, "Dog" -- dressed as you. When we came home, this story about your rant was all over TV. My son is black. Any advice how to explain to him that you're not a hero?"

D. CHAPMAN: Well, I don't know about being a hero. I didn't want to be that. But if he went out there as me, I'm proud of that. And that Uncle "Dog" has learned there's certain words that you can never use. There are certain words -- for instance, you can't yell, "I've got a bomb" at an airport. There are certain words in the English language that you cannot use. And the "N" word is one of them. And that's any child at all -- you will not and cannot use that word.

KING: Do you believe you're a racist?

D. CHAPMAN: No. I have arrested racists. I know what they believe and how they believe.

KING: You've bounty hunted racists?

D. CHAPMAN: I've bounty hunted racists. I'm on the list for a couple of supremacist groups. And I've bounty hunted racists in other colors besides Caucasian. And they're proud to be that. And, you know, that's -- if they were in this seat, they would tell that you they are. I mean they're not -- they're not undercover racists. There's no such thing.

KING: Tucker's sister was Barbara, who died, right, in the car accident?

D. CHAPMAN: Tucker's sister is Barbara, yes, sir.

KING: Do you think there's any reaction to this -- to that death and to Tucker, a son betraying a father?

What's your...

D. CHAPMAN: Well...

KING: You're not a psychologist, but what do you make of this?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, both of them had connections with the mother. The mother, in the '80s, I -- I was speaking with Tony Robbins. I came home. She was with my best friend. I mean the mom -- when I got out in prison, Larry, I got out in '79 for murder. So a -- the pick from girls I had -- can you imagine me coming to your house saying, "Hi, my name is Duane. I just got out for a murder that I didn't do. Hi, sir. May I date your daughter?"

So my pick was not very good.


D. CHAPMAN: You know, really. And I picked one that wasn't very good. And, you know, she did drugs with daughter the week -- with Barbara the week before Barbara got killed. I mean I did it -- I had a terrible choice, but I didn't have a big item, you know, a big area to pick from. I had to pick what I did.

Now, they're coming out 20 years ago -- anybody that I did drugs with 20 years ago or 30 years ago or anything that I did are now coming out, jumping on "National Enquirer," oh, give me $2,000 or $3,000. And they're like I remember he said this.

So I have a past. I -- the past of -- my, God, there are so many songs, the past will catch you. Please don't relive it. There is a past. And no matter what I'll be there, I'll always have that past. And it is haunting me. And to use that word is so terrible. And I'm "Dog" Chapman. I'm -- I -- you know I love black people. I love all -- I live in Hawaii, where many of us are called to Hali (ph) every day -- 30 percent Anglo-Saxon. I want to raise my children around all color. Where -- I love Hawaii. You know that. I stay there because of that.

KING: How is your wife handling it?

D. CHAPMAN: My wife is very ashamed. I mean she's, you know, as far as being the big mouth in the family, it's usually Beth. You know, I'm like usually, honey, you know, slow down. And she's like you're out of character, you know?

You -- I can't believe -- and today she said you have shamed the family. And I'm like, you know, I'm very sorry. And she's like, big daddy, then prove it. So I'm trying to prove it.

KING: Is she mad enough to want to leave you or...

D. CHAPMAN: Well, you know, I told her...

KING: I saw her outside. She seemed fine.

D. CHAPMAN: Right. But I went to her and said, you know, if any -- if you ever want to leave and become "The Beth Show," now is the time to do it. And she said, "I won't leave you."

KING: How angry are you at Tucker?

By the way, did you call him or him call -- he call you on that?

D. CHAPMAN: That day, I think I called him. Yes, sir.

KING: How mad are you?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, I'm glad you said that. You know, I went to the Lord and said, you know, Lord, forgive him, because he doesn't know what he's doing.

You know, how can you -- how mad can you get at your own kid?

You can't hate him. You can't hate him. I'm disappointed and wonder where -- did that -- did that traitor stuff come from prison?

Did that, you know, where do you learn to be a traitor at?


KING: All right.

Do you think he did it to hurt you or he needed money?

D. CHAPMAN: Well, I think that he figured his father would not be as hurt as bad as it did. But I know for sure he needed money. You know, they've got contracts. I mean they, you know, you become a rat, you get this contract with that magazine and scum magazines like that. So they've got contracts that you sign and they pay you like, you know...

KING: Couldn't he have gone to you for money?

D. CHAPMAN: But, I say -- Larry, I said, Tucker, you've got to work. See, Tucker worked for me after this happened for almost, you know, six, seven months. Then right before he turned the tape in, he got fired again. But he got fired for not doing something right. Him and Beth would get in a beef. I'd get in a beef. And then he'd got rehired. He's my son. All the kids have a particular role in -- whether it's "'Dog' The Bounty Hunter," the (INAUDIBLE) bail bond is in the family unit.

He would have came back. It's just that he, you know, chose to do this.

KING: The son we're about to meet, Chris, he's younger than Tucker?

D. CHAPMAN: Christopher is my first born son. Christopher did this, too. Christopher got out of prison last year and immediately went to the "Enquirer Magazine" and did not, you know, this -- but said some terrible things. So Christopher came yesterday and said, "Dad, I'm sorry I did the same thing."

And I go, "Why are you guys doing this?"

"Well, Dad, they're offering money. They're offering me money. And I thought -- "

KING: All right, we'll ask Chris.


KING: But his was not a racial reference, right?

D. CHAPMAN: No. He said I did drugs with him and that I was -- yes, think he said I was racial and I didn't like people.

KING: Really?

D. CHAPMAN: Oh, yes. Well, they stay on the subject, so it, you know, they try to make things confirm.

KING: We'll meet Chris on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE, right after this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right here. This is it right there.

D. CHAPMAN: Tell me when you're good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's her window. OK, the door is open.

D. CHAPMAN: Your house is surrounded. Come on, Mona Lisa, we're coming through the door.


D. CHAPMAN: Mona Lisa, open the damned door. We're going to (INAUDIBLE) you right now. We know you're in there. Open the door.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the door. We've got a warrant for your arrest.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, two, three -- take it.




KING: Now we welcome Christopher Heck, Dog's oldest son. Why do you have a different last name?

CHRISTOPHER HECK, DUANE CHAPMAN'S SON: Because I was adopted to a different family at the time.

KING: You didn't mean him until ...

CHAPMAN: I met Christopher in 1999. How old were you, son?

HECHT: Twenty-one.

CHAPMAN: Twenty-one.

His mother committed suicide while I was in prison. And I didn't actually know I had him and here's my boy. KING: What did you go to prison for, Chris?

HECHT: I went to prison for a robbery case.

KING: How long did you serve?

HECHT: I did approximately almost five years.

KING: And when you got out, what made you want to talk to the "National Enquirer" about your dad?

HECHT: Because they came to me offering me money and I needed money. I needed fast cash. They said they were able to deliver.

KING: What did you tell them?

HECHT: I went through a series of questions and ended up -- what I told them was basically was a bunch of lies just to try to get the money. They said, "the more dirt, the better." And I went through a whole lie detector test.

KING: And you passed it?

HECHT: Failed.

KING: But they still print td?

HECHT: Yes. It was inconclusive. Every question, it took them I would say four and half hours of interrogation and questions. Most of the questions that had to do with my dad and crack cocaine and being racist, those were all lies.

KING: Where does the racist idea come from, that they would ask you about that? Do you know?

HECHT: I have no idea.

KING: You don't think ...

HECHT: Somebody had said something before my story in the "Enquirer."

KING: You don't think your dad is a racist?

HECHT: No, I do not.

KING: What do you make of this whole thing with your other brother?

HECHT: Tucker was after the same thing I was, fast money.

KING: Except he had a tape and of your father using the word on the phone.

HECHT: Yep, yep. And I presume that he caught dad in a foul mood and knew exactly what dad was going to say and how he was going to react. And I don't think that Tucker understands the kind of devastation this is bringing to our family and to my father and to my dad's heart. And that's why I'm here, is to help my dad and let people know that this is not dog. Dog is a good man. He has many followers out there. And he does not deserve this ridicule.

CHAPMAN: A lot of children follow me. I can start helping.

KING: Are you upset over what you did, Chris?

HECHT: Terribly. I drove myself into the ground with guilt every day until I got a hold of my dad finally. And I didn't even know Tucker was doing when I did get a hold of my dad.

KING: Are you mad at Tuck?

HECHT: I'm frustrated. Like my dad said, your son, brother, I can't be angry. But I'm frustrated with him.

KING: We have a King Cam question for Dog. And Chris is with us. Let's watch the question and respond.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Dog. Don Imus recently received a second chance and Michael Richards hasn't for his racial outbursts. Do you do you think people will respond to you in six months or even a year from now?

CHAPMAN: Well, hopefully, you know, I stand for second chance also. So hopefully that America will forgive me. I think that black America has forgiven me more than white America right now. So as a whole, I think that -- of course, I'm an optimist. I'm praying, my God, please forgive me. And that's what I count on.

KING: We have an e-mail from Janet in Birmingham, "In my state it's illegal to tape a phone call unless you let the other party know. Did Tucker break the law by taping you without your knowledge?"

CHAPMAN: Well, to get into particulars, as I said, God heard, and so did America. Whether it's illegal or not, God and so did America did hear it.

So yeah, it matters but I'm not going to make that an excuse. You know what I mean? I should never, ever say it, no matter who is listening, private or public.

KING: Chris, you think your father is ruined?


KING: Do you think he will come back on A&E?

HECHT: Absolutely -- well, if not A&E, somebody. Dog -- you can't ever hold Dog down. I don't even want to say Dog. You can't ever hold my father down. He's not that kind of person. He will come back, regardless of what happens either today or tomorrow. He's coming back.

KING: Are you shocked that the "Enquirer" would offer money to somebody just getting out of prison to rat on his father?

CHAPMAN: Well, absolutely. That is terrible. That's when you start thinking, am I mad at the "Enquirer"? Those people, to do that kind of thing is a scum. Why would you -- they know I have worked my whole life to be someone. I really was a nothing. I really was a convict scum. I went to prison in my 20s for a murder I didn't do but I sat in the Texas penitentiary. Anthony Robbins helped remold me. I had a dream to become a performer and make people smile and laugh.

I really had a goal to do something. These guys are tearing me down trying to destroy me. For what reason? To sell papers? I mean, the Mexico charge is dismissed. America, God Bless Mexico and America.

KING: Just yesterday, right?

CHAPMAN: Yeah, the bond is over. "Enquirer" magazine, my bond is over, OK.

KING: There is no charge pending.

CHAPMAN: There's no charge pending now against me. I would never want to threaten anybody but get off of me. I'm not racial. Go on to someone else that might be.

KING: Chris, you have ever used the N word?

HECHT: Well, a few times out of the people I can hang out with in Denver, where I'm from, yes, I have used as of racial like back and forth, brother between brother.

CHAPMAN: To be a brother is not being racial.

HECHT: Right. The school of hard knocks is what I'm talking about. I'm from the streets of Denver. Yes, I have said that with my friends that are black.

KING: We will take a break. We will come back. Some more moments with Chris and then we will meet Reverend Tim Storey. Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They got into trouble exactly three months before I was working (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still look the same?

CHAPMAN: Yeah, still looks the same.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that the door you came out right there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the door I came out right there. Boy, it sure looked a lot bigger back then.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What color was your uniform? CHAPMAN: White. So you ran in the field, they can see you if and you're real bid, they can put a big, orange dot right down on your spine by your neck. All of my shirts had dots on them.



CHAPMAN: My name is Duane "Dog" Chapman. I lived a hell of a life.


CHAPMAN: I have been a biker, I have been a convict. I have been a bounty hunter. I have been a husband, a father and a son.


KING: We're back with Duane Dog Chapman and his son Chris. Let's take a call from Racine, Wisconsin. Hello.

CALLER: Hi. Dog.


CALLER: I'm a very big fan of yours. And I'm an African American man. I have watched the show many times. And this is an unfortunate thing that happened. I know you were upset and the N word came out. And what I basically want to say to you, brother, I will pray for you. God forgives you. But my wife, she's kind of upset about it. So what do I tell her?

If you were to see my wife on the street, what would you say to her? She's a black woman and she heard you use those words. I hope you don't think every black woman is that what you said.

CHAPMAN: My brother, may I say, first of all, I apologize for her for saying that. I will never say the word again. It doesn't mean to me -- I understand what it means to you and your wife. And I'm sorry, I will never say that word again.

KING: The tape of the conversation between you and Tucker refers to his girlfriend Monique. She gave an interview to the "Enquirer." Let's listen to some of what she had to say.


MONIQUE SHINNERY, TUCKER CHAPMAN'S GIRLFRIEND: I think the apology was pathetic because it was not directed towards -- he did not personally call Tucker or me to apologize. His attorney Burkhart (ph) did, so I don't accept it.

I believe that Duane is a racist because I have heard many times what he says about me, not just this one time but a lot of things he says and a lot of things he does.


KING: Want to respond to her?

CHAPMAN: I never had seen her. She's a cute little girl.

KING: You never saw her?

CHAPMAN: I have never seen her.

KING: Then, why were you so mad at her?

CHAPMAN: Well, because I thought she was helping son do something very wrong.

KING: You assume that or you thought that or you had knowledge of it?

CHAPMAN: I had I thought at the time absolute knowledge of it.

KING: Chris, you know her?

HECHT: I have never met her. Never met her.

KING: I know you issued a public apology after the phone call became public. Monique responded to that and more after she talked to the "Enquirer." Here's a little more of Monique.


SHINNERY: When I heard the tape in "The National Enquirer", I got really angry at first but then I -- there's really nothing that I could have done. I would never go up to him and confront him and start anything to just hurt his family even more.


KING: Your son serious with Monique?

CHAPMAN: It sounds like he is but I wish he would have came up and confronted my family instead of putting it on national radar because then we could have work td out. We are happy to work it out now due to this. But it would have been a lot better and say, Dog, I love Tucker. Let's talk.

KING: There are reports some of your fans have threatened her. You have heard that?

CHAPMAN: No, I didn't. If they are, stop now. We've got to -- Let's heal this. If there's damage, which obviously, there is, let's start healing. This is what I stand for, is healing. This is what I stand for is healing.

KING: We have an e-mail question from Diane, Clovis, California -- can you ever forgive your son for dealing with the "Enquirer"?

CHAPMAN: Listen, this is the oldest one, supposed to be the soldier. I've got 12 babies. This is the one here. I want to ring him by the neck. I love him. I forgive him. That's Tucker. That's my youngest son besides Gary. Tucker is -- I love him. I forgive this son.

KING: You were going to say something else.

CHAPMAN: I'm gonna learn not to.

KING: You were going to say something else.

CHAPMAN: I probably was but I'm controlling that powerful tongue.

KING: Best of luck to you, Chris. Thanks for coming by.

HECHT: Thank you for having me.

KING: Christopher Hecht. When we come back and thank you for coming by.

HECHT: And thank you for having me.

KING: When we come back, Dog will be joined by Reverend Tim Storey, his longtime friend and spiritual advisor. Let's check in first with Anderson Cooper, the host of AC 360. He will be with us at the top of the hour. What's up, Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Larry, coming up on 360, a big endorsement from Republican front-runner Rudy Giuliani from what some would say an unlikely source. Find out who is supporting the New York City mayor and why none in politics saw this one coming.

Also tonight some really starting information about the head of the FLDS church Warren Jeffs. You may remember he's currently in prison awaiting sentencing for being an accomplice to rape. Now there's new video and transcripts of some of the things Jeffs has been saying in prison and trying to do to himself in prison. It's fair to say that it might come to a shock to his followers. All that and more, Larry, at the top of the hour.

KING: That's Anderson Cooper. That's at 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. Right back with more. Don't go away.


KING: Joining us now is Reverend Tim Storey, Dog's longtime friend and spiritual advisor. How long you have known each other?

REVEREND TIM STOREY, LIFE COACH: Close to eight years.

KING: You married him?

STOREY: I married him and did the pre-wedding counseling and everything.

KING: How shocked were you? STOREY: I was shocked. I heard it online. The first thought would be, can't be his voice. They made this up. I heard it the second time and said this is his voice and went straight to the phone and went at it with him. I was really bothered.

KING: By went at it, you criticized him?

STOREY: Yeah I'm a black man. And when he said it, it really pierced my heart. I never heard him say anything like that. And I thought it was strong. We went at it for 30 minutes.

KING: How did he explain it?

STOREY: I think that Dog is good-hearted, and I really explain it as being his past, what he comes from. I think he's stressed. He's been working nonstop for two years. I have been telling him to take time off and rest. I'm talking to him about all parts of his life.

And I think that when you're fatigued and you got stress on you and pressure, a lot of bad things could happen.

KING: When Reverend Storey called you Dog, how did that make you feel?

CHAPMAN: Oh, it made me feel terrible. Because he doesn't pull punches. He probably said some things to me that preachers aren't used to saying.

KING: Tough call to take?

CHAPMAN: Tough call to receive, yes, sir.

KING: Tough call to make?

CHAPMAN: Tough call. Because I felt that we kind of put him out there. In Christianity, I remember back in the '60s when Pat Boone would give his testimony, and then Johnny Cash in the '70s. Now we have been taking Dog around. And here he is, he received Christ and he's doing better and he's a comeback story. And then for all of these churches I have taken him to, a lot of black churches and inner city churches and now he said this. I was really bothered with him. I wanted to know where it came from.

KING: Do you forgive him?

CHAPMAN: I 100 percent forgive him. And what I said to him is that, you know, explain it to me. Because I think it needed to be explained. And when he explained where he was coming from, that's where I took him as a man of God, is that God does forgive, God does forget and you can move forward. That's what we are working on with Anthony Robbins joining our time is going forward. Don't sit in your setback, don't settle, don't cement yourself, but let's go forward.

KING: Did you accept his explanation? STOREY: I did. I really did. Because you have to know the history of the man. And to know from prison to the gangs, had some guy who was raised a different way said it, I think I would have been even more shocked. I have been working on, Larry, on his mouth for a year.

KING: He's got a foul mouth?

STOREY: He does. And that stuff will just go everywhere.

CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.

STOREY: And is he making the changes, four days and step by step.

KING: Let's take a call. Ft. Hood, Texas, hello.

CALLER: Hey. Dog, I want to know as a mother, I am an African American woman and I'm the mother of three biracial children. What if your son was to bring home a biracial child, happens to be half black, how would you set the example for that? Would you walk around the house in your personal time just saying, hey, little N word or something like that? How would you expect us to continue to see you as a role model?

CHAPMAN: Well, before now, how would I hand tell, sometimes you may hear that word out of me and what it means is not what it says. Now I would say, you know, I hate to say this about my kids, to tell about their girlfriends, but none of my Anglo-Saxon children boys have any Anglo-Saxon wives or girlfriends.

KING: They don't?

CHAPMAN: No, they don't. So nowadays, I can't use it. Back then I would have said, if you bring someone in, let me explain to them that I may say that but it doesn't mean that. And because I thought there was such an explanation. There's not.

KING: How are you going to feel if Tucker marries this young lady?

CHAPMAN: He better marry her.

KING: You want him to marry her?

CHAPMAN: He better marry her, after what we're going through right now, he better marry her.

KING: We will take a break and be back with more on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: We're back with our remaining moments. First an update on our quick vote on The question -- Do you think Dog's show should be off the air? The numbers have changed. With over 60,000 people voting, 82 percent say no. There's still time to vote. Eighty-two percent do not want Dog's show to be off the air. Make you feel pretty good?

CHAPMAN: We need like nine more points. That makes me feel very good, yes, sir.

KING: We have a video e-mail. We call this little feature "I ask." Let's watch.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I always like your show and I like it best of all when you help people. Never give up. It's from the heart and sometimes heroes make mistakes. Even I make mistakes. It's from the heart, no matter who you are.


KING: How about that?

CHAPMAN: That's great. Thank you.

KING: Never give up. What's to be learned from all of this, reverend?

STOREY: Well, from the mouth of babes, that was a great mistake.

KING: That was a great call.

STOREY: Truly. The fact is he's still a hero and I think he is a hero for getting up. I like to rhyme a little bit but he can turn his test into a testimony and his mess into a message.

And the message is don't give up. Don't say the word. And I think a bridge is being built. We were with some people last night, and there was a black crowd as we were walking in a restaurant. Hey, Dog? What's up, Dog? What's up, my Dog? What's up, my Dog? Let's go on. Let's grow. Let's be proactive and quick looking back.

KING: Are you surprised at least at this show, 60,000, it's a lot of people, 82 percent don't want him off the air?

STOREY: I think it's amazing. I think it's a display of mercy. We have all made mistakes and I think America is saying at least he owned up. He manned up to it and he's willing to change and he did change. I'm proud of him.

KING: There is a second act. How do you feel about it, Dog?

CHAPMAN: I wish this would have never happened. I would pray to God if there was a time machine I could stop this. I thought I quit making bad mistakes. And I'm very sorry.

KING: How do you feel about this reaction tonight?

Well, you know, I -- you know, I feel good. I wish that we weren't sitting here having this kind of -- I would rather have, whose show do you like best on A&E? But I'm very proud that people are forgiving me. I have a struggle, I tell you, honestly in my mind and in my heart. Because there was a bad guy that lived here. I had today, all of this I have done, nobody really forgives. It's all I bunch of bull. You're the second chance guy. You ain't getting no chance. And I am trying to tell myself and be positive. Yes, you are. There is good. So I'm proud of how it's coming out.

KING: You had the number one show on A&E, right?

CHAPMAN: Yes, I was.

KING: If my memory serves me correct.

CHAPMAN: Yes, sir.

KING: Good luck, Dog.

CHAPMAN: Thank you, sir. God bless you.

KING: Reverend, great meeting you. Duane "Dog" Chapman and Reverend Tim Storey.

Before tonight we end we want to say happy birthday to a great man and friend of this show, Billy Graham. Billy turns 89 today. His son Franklin says his farther does not want any fuss but we trust he celebrated with family and friends. Happy birthday, Billy Graham. Best wishes from all of us. Good guy, good friend.

As always, head to our Web site, We have our special Dog quick vote, we have guest commentaries and even our podcast. You can e-mail tomorrow night's guest, Dr. Phil. All one hot spot on the Web,

And now AC 360 with Anderson Cooper. Anderson?