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CNN Larry King Live

The Colorado Shootings/Interview With Victoria Beckham

Aired December 10, 2007 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight...

KING: of the most talked about women in the world talks to us. Victoria Beckham on the Spice Girls, her husband David, her fashion influence and more.

But first...



KING: ...deadly church shootings in Colorado -- the suspect in the double rampage is identified and so are his victims. Hear from the security guard who stopped the alleged gunman in his tracks. It's exclusive and it's next on


Another incredible story out of Colorado.

Let's go to Colorado Springs and Sean Callebs, our CNN correspondent -- Sean, get us up to date on this.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we can tell you the suspect in this, Matthew Murray, was shot and killed at the New Life Church yesterday, around 1:00 Mountain time. This is really a shooting that unfolded over about a 12-hour period here in the heart of Colorado.

It began about 12:30 in the morning, about 80 miles from where we are, in the town of Arvada. What police are telling us is the suspect went to a ministry called Youth With A Mission. Now, this is an area that basically trains missionaries and sends them out all over the world.

What we know is this 24-year-old suspect had been a member of this program five years ago, had a falling out and for the past couple of years was apparently sending threatening messages to Youth With A Mission.

He went there. He shot four people, killing two of them. Then 12 hours later, he somehow made the drive about 80 miles down I-25 here, to Ted Haggard's old church -- the New Life Church. What we know is he came here with a mission. Murray came with a smoke grenade, threw it at the front entrance right after Sunday services. And this is a massive church. About 7,000 people were inside during service.

He tried, apparently, to drive everybody down a narrow hallway to an east exit. Then he got in his car, drove around, armed to the teeth. He had about a rifle, two pistols, about a thousand rounds of ammunition. He opened fire in the parking lot first, hitting five people, killing two -- two sisters in the Works family; also, critically wounding their father, who is a nearby hospital.

Then he made his way inside the building. He got about 80 feet inside and that is when he was first confronted by Jeanne Assam. She is the one being called a hero in all of this, Larry. She is the volunteer security guard -- one of about a half a dozen -- armed during the service here at New Life -- Larry.

KING: Thanks, Sean.

Excellent report.

Sean Callebs on the scene in Colorado Springs.

Staying in Colorado Springs, we welcome Jeanne Assam, the volunteer security guard at New Life Church. She shot and killed the alleged gunman, Matthew Murray.

With her is Reverend Brady Boyd -- he likes being called Brady -- the senior pastor at that church.

Jeanne, what were you doing armed in a church on a Sunday?

JEANNE ASSAM, SECURITY GUARD SHOT ALLEGED GUNMAN AT NEW LIFE CHURCH: I was on duty for the church in the capacity as personal protection and I was directed to be armed.

KING: Have you done that before?

BOYD: Yes, I have, many times.

KING: What -- have you shot anyone ever before?

ASSAM: No, I haven't.

KING: What was it like?

ASSAM: Surreal.

KING: Tell me -- give me the scene -- where was he, where were you?

ASSAM: He was coming down the hallway from the tent area and I was at the opposite end and basically took cover less than halfway. And then I met him. I met him at the point of confrontation, and that's where it all happened.

KING: Did you say anything to him?

ASSAM: I identified myself and told him to drop the weapon. And then I had to fire several times.

KING: He didn't drop the weapon?


KING: Brady Boyd, senior pastor, where were you while all of this was going on?

PASTOR BRADY BOYD, SENIOR PASTOR, NEW LIFE CHURCH, SITE OF 2ND RAMPAGE: I was in my office on the second floor of the building. We had a guest speaker, Dr. Jack Hayford, a well known speaker. And he was my guest. And we were having lunch in the office and my assistant burst into my office, said shots were fired -- shots had been fired. She was obviously very upset. And, of course, when she said that, then we heard subsequent gunfire and we were instructed by our -- the security detail that was there to stay in my office.

So we locked my office door. And, obviously, then the first thing I did was to call to make sure my wife and my children were out of the building, and then began to call staff and friends to make sure they were safe. And I was just worried to death about people down below and I felt very helpless.

KING: The services were over?

BOYD: Yes, we have two services on Sunday and this was after the second service. So, fortunately, he came at 1:00 p.m.. And our services had been over about a half hour. And a lot of the people that were on the campus had already left. He came at -- late in the day. There were still several hundred people on the campus during the day. Over 7,000 were there. But when the shooting actually happened, it was probably more like 500 or 600 that were actually on the campus when he fired his first shot.

KING: Do you know him or did you know him?

BOYD: No. I've only been at the church a few months and I've known him. He does not have any connections to New Life Church. This was a random, senseless act. It's a real tragedy, both for his family, and, of course, for the family who just lost two teenage daughters at New Life. And that's -- that's the tragedy in all of this, Larry.

KING: Do you know the sisters?

BOYD: No. I just met -- again, I just came to the church, as you know. And I had not had a chance to meet the family. Obviously, in the last 36 hours, I've spent a great deal of time with them. They're wonderful people. These are people that are committed to the church. They don't bother anyone. These two daughters had been on missions trips. They were -- they had a -- just a really good family, a family that would be considered an all-American family that -- and that's what makes this an even a greater tragedy, is two bright, young women whose lives were taken while after church worshipping with their families.

KING: Why do you have a security guard armed at church services on a Sunday?

BOYD: Well, I think it's obvious. We live in a culture that's very open. This is a high profile church. It's the largest church in Colorado. Obviously, not only at New Life Church, but in churches across the country, increasingly, religious churches -- Christian churches -- are targets of people who are aggravated or upset. And for the last several -- the past several years, New Life Church has had a contingency plan in place. The people who are armed in our worship services are licensed to carry weapons. We don't let just anyone show up on our campus with a gun attached to their belt, obviously.

KING: No. That's...

BOYD: It's not the Wild West. And this is -- they're licensed. They have -- they're under our authority and they're operating under the guidelines that we've given them.

KING: Has Ted Haggard called you since this?

BOYD: No. I've never met Pastor Haggard. I've had a conversation with him.

KING: Jeanne, are you going to remain a security guard?

ASSAM: I serve the church with pleasure. And, absolutely, I will continue to be security for the pastor and for the church.

KING: Do you work all week?

ASSAM: I do.

KING: I guess you will never be the same.

ASSAM: Probably not.

BOYD: Larry, the real story here, to me, is the fact that the man got 60 feet inside our building. If he would have come another 100 feet, there were several hundred people standing in the main rotunda. What she did when she heard the gunshots -- we're looking at a lady that did not hesitate. When she heard gunshots, she rushed down the hallway toward the attacker. She was under arms. She had a handgun. This is a hero we're talking about. I'm sitting next to a real life heroine that...

KING: You are not kidding.

BOYD: And I'm telling you, this is the bravest woman that I've ever met. She didn't flinch. She put her own life at risk. She's not on our staff, she's a volunteer. She's a worshipper at our church who provides security for us as a ministry to our church.

KING: Wow!

All right, hold it right there.

BOYD: and she saved hundreds of lives. KING: We're going to take a break and come back. We're going to talk to two parents who their children at the other place, the Youth With A Mission Center.

I would ask you to stand by, Brady and Jeanne, for a comment after they're on.

And we'll be right back.

Don't go away.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Parishioners, who took cover during the rampage, say they're looking forward to reclaiming their church once again.

JOCELYN GARCIA, PARISHIONER: I want to get back in there. I want to get back at home with the body of Christ, with the believers that go to that church. And I just want to be back there with everybody, you know?



KING: Joining us now on the phone is Tom Johnson. His daughter Tiffany one of the two people killed early Sunday at the Youth With A Mission Center in Arvada, Colorado.

Tom, our sincere condolences on the loss of Tiffany.

How did you learn of this?

TOM JOHNSON, DAUGHTER TIFFANY KILLED SUNDAY AT MISSION CENTER: Larry, I first would like to thank you and I would like to thank the Arvada Police Department. They've been so informative for us in keeping our family and what's happening with Tiff and the whole scene. And I'm so glad for the security guard that remedied this whole situation here. And at least no other -- no other people have to endure something like this.

I heard of it at about 2:00 -- 2:30 in the morning Minnesota time from my wife. And she was being transported to the hospital, talking to the ambulance driver and telling -- apparently telling the description of the assailant.

And at the hospital, she passed away.

KING: Did she talk to you while in the ambulance?

JOHNSON: She did not.

KING: How is everybody dealing this?

How is your wife dealing with it? How are friends, how is the family?

JOHNSON: Well, initially, of course, Larry, the shock is pretty tough. And it still is, of course. And if it wasn't for our faith and our friends, we wouldn't -- or I couldn't make it through this. It has been a very, very difficult, difficult time for myself.

My daughter was a -- just a strong, vibrant, outgoing, loving and caring person. And all she ever wanted to do was help other people. And she, of course, was a missionary and went to different countries -- Egypt and South Africa, etc. And all she wanted to do was spread the word of God.

And she -- that was in her heart, you know?

And I guess the only thing that comforts me now is I know she's there with God right now.

KING: This doesn't shake your faith?

JOHNSON: It did initially and I was angry, Larry, to be very honest with you. Now, after thinking of it, I believe it's more worldly things that happened in this situation. God, of course, doesn't -- didn't create this. And I believe that something has to be done -- I mean to be very honest with you, in my opinion, in the sense of the whole -- I don't know how to stop this. I'm not saying I have answers. I would like to know and talk to somebody who has answers to something so senseless as this.

KING: Tom, Jeanne Assam is still with us in Colorado Springs.

What would you personally like to say to her?

JOHNSON: Jeanne, I just -- I'm so thankful that you were there. I wanted to say we're praying for the other two families, of course, that lost the two daughters and -- which is very tragic, also. And the other fellow from Alaska. And we've been praying for them. And I know there's a lot of prayers going out.

But as far as Jeanne in general in taking out this assailant, I just am so glad you were there at the time and, you know, being in the right place at the right time and...

KING: Jeanne, you must feel very, very -- you must feel very proud of what you did, aren't you, Jeanne?

ASSAM: I'm -- I am -- I don't -- I've so -- it's very overwhelming and so it hasn't really sunk in, what -- what I just want to say right now is I'm very sorry for your loss, sir. And just stay strong. And that's what I want to say.

KING: Thank you, Tom.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Larry.

KING: Let's go to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Gene Crouse -- his son Phillip was fatally shot early Sunday, also at the Youth With A Mission Center in Arvada, California.

How did you learn of it, Gene?

GENE CROUSE, SON PHILIP KILLED SUNDAY AT MISSION CENTER: I got a call at 8:30 Eastern Standard Time. I was at a church that I attend and was actually ready to do some practice with some music, with some other musicians there. And my daughter called me from Warren, Pennsylvania and said that -- she asked me where I was. And I said I'm located at the church right now. And she goes, well, that's -- you know, that's OK, I guess. And I kept asking her, what's up?

And she said, are you sitting down?

And, you know, I didn't know what she was calling about at first. I kind of surmised that it might have been about one of her children, and my heart instantly went out to her. And she said that my son Philip had been shot and killed.

And the initial shock was that this couldn't possibly be correct. I mean I knew he was in Arvada, Colorado at Youth With A Mission. That's certainly not a war zone. I wouldn't surmise it to be.

And, fortunately, there was a lot of friends gathered around me to help support me. But, I'm -- you know, it's taking its toll on me.

KING: It probably really hasn't totally set in yet, huh?

It just was yesterday?

CROUSE: Yes, it just was yesterday. This will be my fourth interview. I've done two interviews and two phone interviews. And I did a 9:00 this morning here in the same studio setting -- and, of course, with you. And I'm doing this for the memory of my son, who I was very proud of, because he had -- he was only 24 at the time. He turns 25 in January.

And, Larry, he was due -- he was due to arrive here on the 17th of this month. I hadn't seen him in two years. And my last words to him was -- a weekend ago -- was please call me before you board the aircraft. I want to make sure that everything is OK.

KING: Is your faith shaken, Gene?

CROUSE: No. I have a lot of self-doubt about how I can cope with this, but...

KING: You haven't lost your faith?

CROUSE: I haven't lost my faith. It hasn't...

KING: What...

CROUSE: It hasn't shaken me.

KING: What would you like to say to Jeanne Assam?

CROUSE: I would like to thank her for stopping this shred of human debris from continuing on his rampage. You know, to me, it's not sufficient motivation to be angry with a group of people. If you've -- if you've got a problem or an issue with a group of people, you go and try to resolve it. And, evidently, this person was definitely hell bent for some sort of twisted revenge.


CROUSE: And had it not been for her, it might have continued on.

KING: A lot more people would have died.

CROUSE: Absolutely.

KING: Jeanne, our sincere congratulations to you to -- and, rather, to Gene and -- both, two Jeannes -- and to Gene Crouse. Our sincere condolences...

CROUSE: Thank you, sir.

KING: all families affected by this tragedy.

Coming up, we'll move in a totally different direction. Victoria Beckham joins us after the break on



KING: We now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE Victoria Beckham, the "Posh Spice" of the Spice Girls -- there she is -- one of the top selling female pop groups in history. She's the wife of the international soccer star David Beckham, a fashion entrepreneur and icon. She's the cover girl for the January issue of "Elle" magazine. There you see its cover. She's wearing our suspenders -- a very nice look. And she's the best-selling author of "That Extra Half Inch: Hair, Heels and Everything In Between".

She's in Las Vegas.

Victoria, why the Spice Girls reunion now?

VICTORIA BECKHAM, "POSH SPICE," DAVID BECKHAM'S WIFE AND FASHIONISTA: You know, it just seemed like the right time. You know, we've spoken over the years, but it just never seemed right. There's often been speculation were we going to get back together, and it never seemed right. And I'm having so much fun. It is so exciting. The response has just been completely overwhelming. It's fun being a Spice Girl again.

I'm loving every minute of it.

KING: What's changed about the girls over the years?

BECKHAM: You know what, we're a lot more we're much more mature. You know, four of us are mothers. All of our children have been with us at rehearsals, singing and dancing. All of our families have been with us. So it's been much more fun. And Dave has been with me. He's on tour with the Spice Girls. He's even got -- he's a Spice Boy. He's the original Spice Boy.

So, you know, we're a lot more mature. And I think we appreciate it so much more this time around. You know, we were so much younger. And you can really take a lot for granted when you're younger. So we really appreciate it.

KING: How was the group named?

BECKHAM: How was the group named?

KING: Yes.

BECKHAM: Well, you know, it just seemed right, you know, because we're very different. We're five different personalities, five different characters. So you know, spice -- you know, lots of different spices.

KING: Yes.

BECKHAM: It just seemed like a natural name for us.

KING: It's been reported that while the other girls have a lot of singing solos, you do a kind of fashion show/catwalk.

Is that true?

BECKHAM: It is true. I mean for me, doing this shows, this is about celebrating the Spice Girls. You know, we sold nearly 60 million albums, which is phenomenal. This is about celebrating Spice Girls. I'm not in the music industry anymore on my own. So for me, you know, I wanted to kind of -- I like to poke fun at myself. I don't take myself too seriously.

I'm in the fashion business now, so I do a very camp little fashion moment, which is great fun. It's great fun.

KING: Victoria, why do you and David work?

How does it work so well, two celebrities in two different venues?

BECKHAM: You know, me and David, we've been together for 10 years now. And when I met David, I didn't just meet someone that I fell in love with, you know. I met my soul mate. And I respect everything that David does and he respects and loves what I do. And we really complement each other. We really do. And we support each other. We have a lovely family. And we're very, very happy. We're very lucky.

KING: Are you equally romantic? BECKHAM: We are equally romantic, yes. He's a very, very romantic man. He's a Taurean and most Taureans are very romantic. I'm very lucky.

KING: Is there any problem with jealousy or ownership in the relationship?

BECKHAM: No. I think when we were younger -- you know, obviously, it's very difficult being married to someone like David. He's incredibly good looking. But I think the older that we get -- you know, I'm proud of him. I'm proud of his talent. I'm proud of the way that he looks. And I'm flattered when people -- when find him attractive. But he's a very loyal man and he's a fantastic, fantastic husband.

We're a real good partnership, you know?

We complement each other. Everything we do revolves around our children. Yes, he's great.

KING: Speaking of that, you have three boys.

How did you come to name one Brooklyn, which is where I was born?

BECKHAM: You know, I actually found out that I was pregnant when we were in New York on tour with the Spice Girls the first time around. And I just liked the name. Just -- I just liked the name.

KING: Have you been to Brooklyn?

BECKHAM: I have been to Brooklyn. You know, I really -- I really like it there. You know, we spent quite a lot of time there traveling around like I said, when we were on tour the first time with the Spice Girls.

KING: The sons are -- the boys are touring with you now?

BECKHAM: They are. They're with me all the time, and so is David. And it's great. You know, I did the Spice Girls tour for one reason only -- and that was for my children to see mommy be a pop star again. That, you know, Brooklyn was too young the first time around. And the fact he's looking up at the stage and he's seeing what mommy does. I don't just moan at the boys and make them do their homework and clean their teeth and eat their dinner. You know, they can see mommy doing what she loves doing.

I'm very passionate about it. And it's fun and it's a very creative environment for the children to be around, which is great. We're a very -- we're a very creative family. So I love it. They're learning to dance. And I sing.

KING: We'll have more with Victoria Beckham in a moment.

By the way, tomorrow night -- we had our interview with Brad Pitt last week. And we taped well over an hour, and you only saw an hour. So we're going to show you stuff you didn't see tomorrow night in Brad Pitt, Part Two.

We'll be right back.



KING: The Spice Girls are back on tour. Victoria Beckham is in Las Vegas. She's our special guest. CNN spoke, by the way, with your husband David this summer about children. Let's listen to what he said.


DAVID BECKHAM, SOCCER PLAYER: I would love a little girl at some point or two little girls at some point. You never know. I have always loved and wanted big families but we have three beautiful boys at the moment, and we'll see.


KING: Would you like a little girl?

VICTORIA BECKHAM, SINGER: I would love a little girl at some point. But, you know, I have got three boys at the moment that are hard work. They are very, very active. And I'm constantly getting soccer balls kicked at me. I think at some point a little girl would be great but at the moment I want to enjoy the children that I've got.

The rumors are not true. I'm not pregnant. I keep getting asked, am I pregnant? I'm not pregnant. And hopefully I will be blessed enough to have more children at some point. But at the moment my children keep me very, very busy. They actually put me in goal and they just all kick footballs with me. I'm the goalie of the family.

KING: You told "Elle" that there was a perception that you boss David around, that he's joked you wear the pants in the family. How would you describe the relationship? Who is boss?

V. BECKHAM: You know, I think we are very equal. We are very, very equal. We have different strengths. Like I said, we really complement each other. And David would never be bossed around by anybody. He's a very strong personality. So it's very, very equal.

KING: You came to L.A. because of David's multimillion dollar contract with the L.A. Galaxy soccer team. Your move was featured in a one-hour special on NBC. Let's take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I see your driver's license, please?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear the streets.

V. BECKHAM: This is the Spanish one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you step out of the car please?


D. BECKHAM: We promise we will come and visit you.

V. BECKHAM: I was completely shocked and devastated because I was wearing flat shoes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You cannot drive with this license here in California.


KING: Were you as shocked as you seemed?

V. BECKHAM: To be arrested? Well, you know, I was. Filming that TV show was fun. I'm not sure would I ever do it again but it was fun. I was looking for a house at the same time. I wanted to make sure I got everything perfect for when David and the boys turned up in L.A. So I spent a lot of time there trying to make everything perfect, including learning to drive, which didn't actually go that well. But I did pass my test in the end.

KING: On the wrong side of the road, right?

V. BECKHAM: You know, it's complicated. I now figured out what you have to realize is wherever you are in the world, you have to be driving down the center of the road. That way you will always be on the right side of the road.

KING: Good point. Do you like L.A.?

V. BECKHAM: I love L.A. As a family, it's a wonderful place for us to bring up children. Our kids are very active. They are outdoor boys. There's so much for them to do. They surf, they swim, they play soccer. It's just a wonderful, wonderful place. The schools are fantastic. We have been made to feel very, very welcome, very at home. I just think it's a wonderful place. A really wonderful place. The attitude is so positive. And I love that. I think that's a very positive and strong message when you're bringing up children.

KING: You like Beverly Hills.

V. BECKHAM: I love Beverly Hills. When people say, is it hard? The transition must have been very difficult. I'm like, how hard can it be? This is Beverly Hills, right?

KING: It ain't bad.

V. BECKHAM: It's fantastic. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's a really, really wonderful place. And we have met such great people.

KING: Speaking of that, what's the relationship you as a couple have with our friend Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes?

V. BECKHAM: Again, they are very, very sweet people. We saw them last night, actually. Tom and Katie, they came to the Spice Girls show in L.A. and then they flew out to Vegas last night to see another show and we went to dinner.

They are very kind, caring, funny people. We really have a laugh when we go out with them. So we love to spend time with them.

KING: There are also reports, we have tabloid press as you have tabloid press ...

V. BECKHAM: Love the tabloids.

KING: You do?

V. BECKHAM: No. I'm joking.

KING: You read them?

V. BECKHAM: No, I don't. I have no interest in them.

KING: Neither do I. The latest is that Tom Cruise is trying to convert you to Scientology. True?

V. BECKHAM: No, not true at all. Tom has his religion that he's very passionate about it. I don't know anything about Scientology at all. He's never tried to talk to us about that. He does his thing. We do our thing. And we're good friends, and that's -- that's how it is. They are really wonderful people. And they are such good parents. They have been incredibly supportive to both myself and David. And they are just really good friends, you know. Our kids get on with their kids. And they are just great. They made our move a lot easier. They have shown us around. They came and helped me find a house when I was there and I didn't know anybody. They are genuinely very, very sweet people.

KING: Victoria Beckham is our guest. By the way, our new podcast is available for downloading. Check it out at or iTunes. It's Brad Pitt. Brad tells us how he's making it right in New Orleans by rebuilding 150 homes lost during Katrina. He'll get us up to date on Angelina and being a dad, too. Download the Brad Pitt podcast at

More with Victoria Beckham when we come back.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, my costume is not ready yet so I decided to wear my casuals.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will put you in the oven and grill you.

V. BECKHAM: I have just run the marathon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what it is.

V. BECKHAM: And I refused to put of those horrible, kind of tacky silver coats so I designed one myself. (END VIDEO CLIP)


KING: We're back with Victoria Beckham. The Spice Girls are on tour again. She's in Las Vegas. Compare the American celebrity press with the British celebrity press.

V. BECKHAM: You know, I don't read tabloids, so I'm pretty unaware of what the tabloids are saying. But in England there is a lot more. The sheer volume of weekly tabloid magazines is quite phenomenal and they are quite obsessed with celebrity. I think in England, possibly it is slightly more negative than it is in America. But I don't really see a lot of it. I don't really have any interest. I love fashion magazines but I'm not into tabloid magazines particularly.

KING: We have an e-mail question from Lynn in North Carolina. Question, "Why don't you ever smile for the camera? You always look angry or aloof or upset when I see your picture in magazines?" What's the matter?

V. BECKHAM: I know. I know. I don't know why. Because I really like to have a laugh. I have quite a dry sense of humor. I think that's just the way that I look in pictures. I know I do look very miserable. And I do have to try and smile more. Which is ironic, really, because I'm sort of quite a funny sort of person, so, you know, I will try.

KING: You look great.

V. BECKHAM: Thank you. So do you, Larry. I love your braces.

KING: Thank you. And you have them on a front cover of "Elle." I take it as a tribute to me.

V. BECKHAM: It is a complete tribute to you. You're a fashion icon in your own right. Completely inside the styling behind the "Elle" magazine shoot.

KING: We're going to ask the editor when she comes aboard. Do you read your own press?

V. BECKHAM: I don't. For example, with "Elle" magazine, I will read that interview. But, no, I don't read tabloid press at all. If something is good, if the reviews from the spice girls show, for example, have been fantastic, absolutely fantastic. And it's nice to know people are being positive. But generally speaking, no, I don't. We have a real private life, myself, David and the boys. It's not as public as people would think. We don't go out that much. We spend a lot of time at home. So we are not kind -- we are kind of really oblivious to some of the hype. Which I think is a god thing. When it's good, you become an uncontrollable big head and when it's bad, you'll be depressed. So we don't really pay too much attention.

KING: Do you have a lot of security concerns? Do you more or less secure in the United States than in London?

V. BECKHAM: We feel very secure. We have a really fantastic team of security. We have a huge security team that are very, very well trained, very experienced. And they look after us and they look after the children. And I think so as long as you take precautions and you're sensible and you do what you can do, you cannot become too paranoid.

We have a great team, like I said, that look after us. And we feel secure. We take those kinds of things very seriously.

KING: You tell "Elle" magazine this quote, "I have never been that good at anything, to be completely honest." So how then do you achieve the fame and fortune you achieved without being good at anything?

V. BECKHAM: You know, I worked really hard, really hard. I have a clothing line, DVB clothing line in which I'm creative director. I have a lots of different business I'm working on. And I'm a hard worker. I have never been the most talented singer, the most talented dancer or best-looking woman in the world. I make the best of what I've got. And that's my message to people. Just make the best of what you got and have fun.

And I have been very, very lucky, incredibly lucky. I'm very, very blessed. I think my talent does lie in fashion and it took a few years for me to actually realize that and I'm having a huge amount of success with my clothing lines. But I said that, I was just being completely honest. I am not the most talented person in the world. I try very hard.

KING: We will be joined in the next segment, Victoria and I, by Robbie Myers, the editor and chief with "Elle" magazine. Right now let's check in with Anderson Cooper. He will host AC 360 at the top of the hour. What's up, Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Larry, coming up at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, the rampage in Colorado. Four innocent victims, two separate incidents. In an exclusive interview we are going to talk to one of the five people wounded in the attack. Larry Bourbiner (ph) was shot in the arm and then tried to get security to give him the gun so he could take the shooter out. He has a remarkable story to tell.

We also will talk to a roommate of the shooter.

Plus, don't look now, but the race for the Republican nomination has been completely turned upside down. CNN released its latest national polling and I think it's fair to say no one saw this coming. I will explain.

And what's being dubbed this week's Oprahpalooza and whether or not it is going to help Barack Obama. All that and more, Larry, 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

KING: I have a feeling, Anderson, that Arkansas is going to be part of that story? COOPER: I think so.

KING: Anderson Cooper, AC 360, 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.

And when we come back, more on fashion and we will even include the editor of "Elle" magazine. Don't go away.


V. BECKHAM: It's always the same. I don't know what to wear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, you get to wear the little Gucci dress, the little Gucci dress or the little Gucci dress.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know. Why don't you wear the little Gucci dress.

V. BECKHAM: That's a good idea. Thanks, Em.




KING: We're back and Victoria Beckham remains with us from Las Vegas. Joining us here in Los Angeles is Robbie Myers, the editor and chief of "Elle." How was Victoria selected for the cover?

ROBBIE MYERS, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "ELLE" MAGAZINE: Well, you know, sometimes you just get a sense, Larry, that somebody is about to explode. Victoria is just loved by everybody in the fashion industry. And we just knew this would be a wonderful cover for us. And you see how great she looks. She's so chic. And the important thing about "Elle" is when you put somebody on the cover they have to have a very strong personal sense of style. And Victoria puts herself together. She doesn't have a legion of stylists around her all the time.

KING: Knowing the lead time in magazines, you have to hit pretty right, right?

MYERS: You have to be a little bit ahead of the curve.

KING: You don't want the downslide.

MYERS: No. And actually you sort of need to intuit beforehand who is going to really start to explode. But everybody is in love with Victoria now. We had a wonderful time in Paris with her shooting the cover.

KING: It was in Paris?

MYERS: It was in Paris. It was during the shows.

KING: Victoria, you usually style yourself. Did you like having other people style you? V. BECKHAM: You know what I loved about working with the team at "Elle," it was a real collaboration. Obviously "Elle" is one of the best fashion magazines in America. And the whole team, the styling team, they are a genius in their own right. For me to collaborate with them, you know, and they listened to my ideas, too. So it was a lot of fun.

KING: We have an e-mail questions girls -- girls, ladies -- from Ashley in St. Louis - "I'm a huge fan of your fashion and style. I love the DVB brand but it's so expensive. Have you considered doing a more affordable line?"

V. BECKHAM: I think at the end of the day our prices are relative. You know there is a lot of attention that goes into the detail of everything that we do. We use the best quality denim and that's why we charge the prices that we do. I mean, they're by no means the most expensive jeans or the most expensive sunglasses but we sell DVB in the best stores in the world, in Bergdorf Goodman, in Maxils (ph), Saks, in Collette in Paris, in the best stores in the world. Well, you know ...

KING: Robbie, who reads "Elle"?

MYERS: Smart women.

KING: Give me the tintype of reader. She's what?

MYERS: Well, she cares about fashion very much.

KING: How old she?

MYERS: She's late 20s, early 30s. But it's not really about the age. We know women who are 25 or 30 read other magazines. What it's really about is a mindset and an idea they love fashion but when they get dressed in the morning that's just the first thing they do before they leave their interesting lives.

KING: How long has "Elle" been around?

MYERS: It's been in America 24 years but as you know it was launched in France right after the war.

KING: What do you think about celebrities designing their own clothes?

MYERS: I think celebrities are like a lot of people, some have taste and some don't. Obviously Victoria has incredible taste. And she knows what she's doing. She works very hard. And she would not put her name on anything that wasn't really beautifully executed. So it depends on the celebrity.

KING: Did you see the movie about Prada ...

MYERS: The devil. Yes, I'm the devil.

KING: Were you like is that that? Are you like that? MYERS: That's my job, how about that. Don't have any fur coats.

KING: What were you going to say, Victoria?

V. BECKHAM: I was going to say, you know, there are a lot of celebrities that have a lot of clothing lines or perfumes and I think that's what I'm doing is very different. I'm not just putting my name on different products. I'm very involved. I go to the factories. I see the denim. I work with the people that I'm working with. And I think that's what make what's I'm doing very, very different. I'm creative director.

I have been working on everything that I'm working on now for the last seven years. This has been a long, long process and that's how long it's taken to get it right. I'm not just saying I'm Victoria Beckham, I'm going to put my name on a bottle of perfume. I'm actually creating that. I'm designing the bottle. I'm designing the label. And that's what I love. That's my fourth child at the moment.

KING: Is this issue out now, Robbie?

MYERS: This issue is on newsstands now. And this is our first ever gatefold cover with an editorial gatefold. There are two photographs of Victoria on the cover. And it's our makeover issue but we really couldn't make her over because she has such a wonderful style and taste.

KING: Oh, yeah. Look at this, folks.

MYERS: We just loved her so much, we had to show her twice. That's the look from here to Paris, Larry. From your desk to Paris.

KING: We're being seen in Paris right now. Thank you, Robbie.

MYERS: Thanks, Larry.

KING: Robbie Myers, the editor and chief of "Elle." We'll be back with our remaining moments with Victoria Beckham right after this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My confidence (ph) disappears.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was fantastic Spice Girls. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still a great gadget (ph) put it wasn't all I was hoping for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know someone who is not getting tour tickets.




KING: Back with our remaining moments. An e-mail from Ted in Phoenix, Arizona -- "Do you ever intend to let your hair grow back out. I thought it was more attractive when it was longer."

Does David like it short or long?

V. BECKHAM: David likes my hair short. But I think fashion is about fun. And it's about experimenting. Trying new things. SO I had the long hair, then I had blonde hair. Then I had short hair. So I'm always changing it around. So it will definitely change it again. I'm sorry you don't like it short.

KING: E-mail from Leeza in Brooklyn, New York. "Question. I've read you prefer to be au natural, to sleep naked when you go to bed. Why?"

V. BECKHAM: Well, I sleep naked when I go to bed every night. I'm getting in bed with David Beckham so it's not hard getting in bed naked every night. That's just the way I am. I do wear pajamas sometimes. Though I do generally sleep naked.

KING: So he sleeps naked too?

V. BECKHAM: Yes, he does. We both sleep naked in bed. A lot of women would understand that if they were getting in bed with David Beckham. They wouldn't complain.

KING: Jack Nicholson was on the cover of last weekend's "Parade" magazine and you were credited for styling him for that photo. How did you style him?

V. BECKHAM: You know, I used to do styling quote a few years ago and I stopped doing it. I said the other person I would ever want to style again would be Jack Nicholson. Because I'm such a huge, huge fan and so is my husband. So when the opportunity came up, I jumped at the chance. And he was wonderful. He was everything I expected and more. He is incredibly stylish and he really listened to what I wanted him to wear.

Again, it was a real collaboration. It was a bit embarrassing when I had to jump in and alter kind of like his collar or something. I didn't know if I can touch him. Can I touch Jack? But he was great. And his people were fantastic. And it was just an honor to work with him. And he looked fantastic. I think the way he was dressed really suited him. He seemed very happy. He actually asked if he could buy all of the suits afterwards so he was obviously with what I put him in.

KING: We had a wonderful hour with you, Victoria.

V. BECKHAM: Thank you so much.

KING: Keep on keeping on and give our best to David. Hope we can have both of you on one night. And we really appreciate making time with us. V. BECKHAM: Thank you. And I just want to say thank you to everybody in America who has embraced us and made us feel so at home, us and our boys. We are having so much fun. Thank you.

KING: Thank you.

V. BECKHAM: Thanks, Larry.

KING: Victoria Beckham. We thanked Robbie Myers earlier.

If you have not been to our Web site lately, check out You can e-mail upcoming guests or even send them a video e-mail. We've got quick votes and our podcast is there too. It's all at the best place on the Web,

Tomorrow night, more of our Brad Pitt interview. Everything you didn't get to see last week.

And now here he is, the man of the hour, the minute, the second. Anderson Cooper. And he's got all the clock taken care of. And AC 360. Anderson?