Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Larry King Live

Dr. Creflo Dollar Interview

Aired January 04, 2008 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, Britney Spears hauled off to a hospital mental ward. Will the pop wreck's latest crisis cost her her children? Can anyone stop the derailed divas downward spiral? Can she be saved from her self? Hollywood insiders tell us all the chaotic details.
Then televangelist and Georgia megachurch pastor Creflo Dollar. His ministry raises millions of dollars. Is his church really nonprofit? Congress wants to take a closer look into his collection baskets. Dollar says that God wants you to be wealthy and tells you how to do. An exclusive with the prosperity preacher tonight on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening, another bizarre incident for Britney Spears. The pop star remains hospitalized after police were called to her home Thursday night surrounding a custody dispute. Police says that Spears was taken to a hospital to test her for drugs and alcohol and give her psychological evaluation. Her two sons were returned to her ex husband Kevin Federline who has primary legal custody.

Let's find out what each of our gang is reporting. Tony Potts, correspondent and weekend anchor for "Access Hollywood", he is on the scene at Cedars-Sinai where Ms. Spears has been taken.

Here in Los Angeles is Ryan Smith, senior reporter for "OK Magazine." Carlos Diaz, correspondent for "Extra."

Lynn Soodik, attorney and certified family law specialist and in New York, Dr. Drew Pinsky, the post of VH-1's "Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew" which premiers January 10 at 10:00 p.m.

All right, Tony, what's the story where you are right at the hospital? And I know you're in a monsoon.

TONY POTTS, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD": It's raining here in Los Angeles and it's very cold. Britney is inside. I heard later today, Larry, that there's a report that she may be here up to 14 days. She's under 72 hours of involuntary watch here. She's been admitted which may be, and people I've talked to her around have talked to over the years are very happy that she's here in this state. Because as you know in the past, Larry, she's gone into rehab and has checked herself out. And Dr. Drew could probably speak to this a little bit more, but she cannot check herself out here. This may be the one place, the one time that she can get the help that she so desperately needs.

KING: What is her official condition?

POTTS: Was that for me or for Larry, or for Dr. Drew?

KING: For you. What is her official condition?

POTTS: You know, there's some speculation on that because as Dr. Drew and I have talked previously on her program, there may be some mental illness here as well but it's been hard to tell, because I can tell you as I had Tony Beretto (ph), her former bodyguard on her program, at one point he told me at one point that she was doing cocaine as well. As you know, when you do drugs and you do alcohol and then maybe she's been up for days and if there is a mental illness and there's also the possibility of postpartum here, you can never tell any of that until you get the drugs and the chemicals out of her body.

So right now she's under evaluation and they will determine much more over the next 48 to 72 hours, Larry.

KING: Stay warm, Tony, and stay dry, we'll keep coming back to you. Ryan Smith, what happened last night?

RYAN SMITH, "OK! MAGAZINE": Well, last night it should have been quite and ordinary evening. Britney Spears had her sons for the day, she got them at midday. When she was due to hand her sons back at 7:00, which is when Kevin Federline's bodyguard arrived, she apparently refused to hand over the sons and barricaded herself away with her youngest son Jayden James (ph).

KING: Did Kevin come there?

SMITH: No, Kevin didn't. It was actually his bodyguard who - Kevin came later on to the hospital a little later on in the night once everything had progressed and become much more of a disaster.

KING: What led to her being taken away, Carlos?

CARLOS DIAZ, "EXTRA": Well, what led to her being taken away was the authorities showed up and they at the time said that she was under the influence of some kind of unknown substance, that she was kind of out of it and so we heard reports that she had locked herself in the bathroom, that she had locked the court appointed monitor out of the house, that she wouldn't given Jayden James back. She was acting erratic so they figured the best way to save her from herself was to take her out of the house.

KING: So she was forcibly taken?

DIAZ: If you look when she's being taken out you see her legs kind of shaking. She looks like she might have been restrained under the blanket on the gurney that she's been taken out on. She was taken out of her home by authorities and by hospital authorities as well. So I mean obviously, she was not allowed to stay.

KING: Were the children given over to the bodyguard then?

DIAZ: Finally, of course, Jayden James was the second one. Shaun Pressman (ph) was given back first and then Jayden James was given back and he actually went to the hospital with someone else to check on Britney a little bit later.

KING: Dr. Pinsky, a police spokesperson said that Spears was hospitalized for her own welfare, is this common?

DR. DREW PINSKY, "CELEBRITY REHAB WITH DR. DREW": Absolutely, it's called a 51/50 in California. And let's be very clear here. She is an addict, she was on drugs and intoxicated when they brought her in. But you cannot hold somebody forcibly against their will because of intoxication or drug use. You must be gravely impaired or an imminent harm to self or others. Fairly clearly, by my judgment on this situation, she was suicidal or so out of it that she was disconnected with reality above and beyond her level of intoxication.

It's not a question of does she have mental illness, this is only the most seriously mentally ill are put on a 51-50. Addicts, you can use drugs all you want until you die. That's legal. But if you say, I'm going to kill myself or I'm going to kill somebody else or I'm Napoleon, then you get held against your will for 72 hours.

Now to say she's going to be on hold for 14 days, only the very most seriously mentally ill get held for 14 days. I'm sure your legal analysts will testify to this.

KING: And I will ask her right now. :Lynn Soodik, attorney, certified family law specialist, how rare is this?

LYNN SOODIK, CELEBRITY ATTORNEY: It's rare to have something like this happen. And she's having a big problem because she's not only having some mental illness problem, she's violating the court's orders. She has to turn over her children, she violated that order. If she kept the monitor out of the house, she violated that court order. She can be held in contempt of court and go to jail for five days for each count.

KING: We could say arguably this is none of our business. But what is the fascination?

SOODIK: People are fascinated by celebrities and certainly their downfall. People like to read to about ...

KING: Like to read about.

SOODIK: They like to read, they like to hear about on TV about people who were at the top of the career, who have a lot of money and now look what's happened to them. They see sometimes that they have a bad life but they can look and say look this person who has a lot of money has it a lot worse than me.

KING: Did she lose her children today?

DIAZ: She lost her children today. The worst-case scenario, it's until the next session which is January 14. She's lost her kids. She didn't want to be deposed. She skipped deposition after deposition. She finally is deposed. She gives a 13-minute deposition. You might think that's the worst that can happen. But then she goes home and pulls these kinds shenanigans, and she loses her kids, so now not only does Kevin Federline have primary custody, he has sole custody of the kids, she can't seen see them for the next week and a half.

KING: Tony, I know the weather is terrible but are there people at the hospital outside inquiring about this?

POTTS: Yeah, I've been out here since 9:00 this morning, I've been back and forth and there's been people all day and asking what's going on. They knew about it. And most of them were women and they were a little upset. They were oh, my gosh, oh, it's so horrible, I think she's going to lose her children.

But to go on what Carlos said, I think it might be the best thing that happens for the kids at this point because the kids are still young enough to not really know what's going on and not to be impacted, so to speak, and also young enough not to remember hopefully so at this point it might be the best thing that happens to her, and to the kids and to have the separation to get herself well.

Also too, Larry and Dr. Drew can speak to this, when a person is an addict and they're on drugs and they're kind of whacked out and they're tired and they hallucinate and what have you, they may seem like they're mentally deranged as well. So all of that plays into everything as well.

PINSKY: It's true, however, Tony, however I'll tell you what. It's very difficult to get somebody on a 72-hour hold for drug use and almost impossible to put somebody on a 14-day hold. That is a very difficult thing to get. And you have to be seriously in trouble with mental illness to be put on a 14-day hold. So if you see her get on a 14-day hold, that is a message to all of us that her mental illness is very serious and it's above and beyond her addiction.

KING: Ryan how has Kevin Federline handled himself through all of this.

SMITH: Well, as he has been throughout the whole custody battle which is just doing things within the best interests of the children, he did actually go to the hospital yesterday, he was with the children. So far it just seems to be that he's taking care of the family and ensuring that the boys aren't too negatively affected by all this.

KING: Outwardly he appears fine through this.

SMITH: Absolutely. Outwardly, but I'm sure, given the circumstances he can't be very happy that the mother of his children is going through all of this.

KING: We'll be right back with more on this intriguing sad story, don't go away.


KING: Let's go back to Cedars-Sinai and Tony Potts who I understand has some late news. Tony? POTTS: Larry, you were talking earlier about the fascination with this story in the United States. It's also around the world. Just received an email from a producer of mine at 4:00 a.m. in Africa, and he's watching this down there. People are talking about it. He also, Michael Luwitis (ph) is the producer I'm talking about, is to the only person today to talk to Lynne Spears, Britney's mom and Lynne was saying everybody should just pray for her daughter, she's really kind of distraught and she couldn't talk much. But the whole family is distraught.

But also thinking that there could be some positive things to come from this for Britney as well. So from Africa at 4:00 a.m. to here, worldwide on LARRY KING, people are worried about Britney Spears.

KING: You've been on red carpet lines with her, right, Carlos?

DIAZ: Yeah, and I was in Vegas a few months ago doing an exclusive interview with her on the red carpet and it's Beatlesesque. Basically when she steps off of an elevator the crowd moves as one. And you hear it time and time again. People say why do we care about Britney Spears? What's with the paparazzi? The paparazzi is there because there is a huge public fascination with this person. As we talked about, she makes $750,000 a month, she has this huge fascination, how can anyone tell her what to do in her life when she's got the cash and she's got the following that she does right now?

KING: Is that because she's a talent?

DIAZ: I think she's famous for being famous at this point. I think she's almost approaching Paris Hilton kind of fame where it's not what she does on stage or on an album but it's what she does with the paparazzi and issues like this.

KING: Lynn, do these things happen to everyday people?

SOODIK: These things happen to every day people but no one reads about it because most people don't care. But I have to tell you it's rare to have monitored visitation, very rare and then it's even rarer to have someone lose that monitored visitation because you have to think about it, it's detrimental for a child not to see a parent. It's got to be a very severe situation.

KING: Monitored visitation means what occurs?

SOODIK: She has someone with her at all times. If she wants to take the child to the bathroom, this monitor goes with her. This monitor is watching everything she does to be sure the children are not at risk.

KING: And these were things, Ryan, she lost in court, right?

SMITH: Absolutely. Initially I think when they filed for divorce, it was almost an immediate custody battle for legal and physical.

KING: Dr. Pinsky, what's the cure rate of this?

PINSKY: Well, it's interesting. This is a polydiagnosed situation, so the prognosis the grim. I have been saying for many months that her life is in grave, grave danger and the recent hospitalization is really just symptoms of exactly that. I'll repeat what I said that is that 72-hour holds are there because people are in imminent harm to self

If it's because they're out of their heads on drugs and alcohol usually what happens is they wake up the day or day after and say, geez, I was really out of my mind, I don't want to kill myself anymore, I'll sign saying that I'm going to do this and I'll commit to treatment and that's that. But if she continues to talk about suicide, or if she continued to be disconnected from reality, then we'll see continued attempt at holding her against her will.

Her mom is right. The treatment program is here to help her not to punish her. Finally we have a way to contain her, get her into a treatment process and hopefully keep her with it. I'm of the opinion that she six to 12 months of intensive treatment very much like Lindsay Lohan pursued.

KING: Carlos?

DIAZ: Let's not forget the fact that these things that have been taken away from her gradually. First the kids were given to Kevin Federline. Then a court appointed monitor was appointed to watch the kids when they were in Britney's care. Then she was no longer able to drive with the kids. Now the kids have been taken away from her entirely. What's the next step? And Larry, I can't help but think, 11 months ago, we were talking about another blonde, Anna Nicole Smith and I'm seeing the same progression here.

PINSKY: Absolutely right.

KING: Would you represent her, Lynn?

SOODIK: I would not represent her. I wouldn't represent somebody I couldn't help. She needs the help of a team of mental health professionals. She needs to be able to listen to somebody. I wouldn't take the case.

KING: Cedars is a world renowned hospital, are they equipped for this?

SOODIK: They're equipped for it but you have to want to get better. You have to want to help yourself. Because I think the threat of losing my children would be enough to make me do anything. It hasn't been enough for her.

KING: So you didn't think it's not coherent to her?

SOODIK: Either she's not coherent about it or she just doesn't care enough as a mother. I don't know how you could not care.

KING: We'll be back with more, don't go away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


KING: We have an e-mail from Karen in Meridian, Connecticut, "Since it appears that Britney's family isn't doing anything to help her and she is certainly not helping herself, will she finally get what she needs from an outside source since she's been confined?" Dr. Pinsky, do you think so?

PINSKY: Yeah. I do think so. Her family can't do anything about this. That's the fallacy of treatment in mental health. The families want to believe that their love and nurturing can somehow heal mental illness. No, that's why we have professionals that can treat these conditions. They are treatable.

But Lynn, your attorney was absolutely correct. For the addictive part of her disease, she has to want to get better. The other things we may be able to treat with medication but addiction is clearly a major, major part of the story here.

KING: Ryan Smith, I understand you're very close to the Spears family. You broke the Jamie Lynn Spears pregnancy story, right.

SMITH: "OK! Magazine" did, yes.

KING: Your magazine. And you know this family very well. First, how is she doing, the sister?

SMITH: Jamie Lynn, well at the moment she has this pregnancy to deal with. The family is obviously distressed with Britney's current situation and it comes on top of obviously all of this news of her pregnancy being made public and that having been broken. She's currently at home. There was speculation that she may be making her way out to Los Angeles with her mother to see her sister.

KING: Where do they live?

SMITH: They live in Kentwood.

KING: What's the family like? What are the parents like?

SMITH: You know, I guess initially it would have seemed that they were anything of a traditional American Southern family. We do know that her father Jamie did have problems with alcoholism, he did have that treated. A very hard working man. Her parents are currently not together. But they seem to be quite devoted to the raising of their daughters and their son Brian.

Unfortunately because of a few public missteps, it's been taken as they have been chided as bad parents and all of these things have been called into question. But when you have one person in your family like Britney Spears who's going through all of these things, it would be very difficult to, you know, compare any other member of the family to her.

KING: Tony Potts, is the hospital saying anything?

POTTS: No, not at all. In fact there's security guards all around the perimeter as well keeping people at bay, the paparazzi that you saw in that footage last night when she arrived here, how chaotic that was.

I want to say something about Kentwood real quick where Britney Spears is from. We talked to some folks down. We know them down there. The town is really upset. They're kind of torn, Larry, between being mad at her because they see what's going on but also they're very concerned for her as well. It's a very - it's not like a suburb. It's actually a small, almost the middle of nowhere town. These people are good people and they're kind of worried for her, but they're kind of mad. They're thinking well she has all this money, but money brings you problems, not answers. And they hope she gets better.

And we'll see what happens. I'm interested to know if she's kind of behind the eight ball because of all the people who hang on and suck her dry, if she can get somewhat well, will she kick those people out of her life? And I think Dr. Drew will concur, that that's very important, to get rid of those people who were around when you had all of those problems. It will be interesting to see if she could get rid of those problems, if her family will come in and surround her in some sort of force field and help her out.

KING: Where's Kentwood, Carl?

DIAZ: Kentwood is in Louisiana. It is about two hours north of New Orleans and I have made that trek several times to talk to her friends and this and that. And it's just a very small town. It's the kind of town where in the high school they park on the yard in front of the high school. It's really a tiny, tiny town and you wouldn't believe someone of Britney Spears's star power could be from a tiny town like that.

And I agree with what Tony has said, they have got to be upset. Because when you're making $750,000 a month, that's more than some people in Kentwood see in a lifetime.

KING: Do you think, Lynn, that people are responding -- are people rooting for her?

SOODIK: Some people are rooting for her and I would think many mothers are, but there are a lot of people rooting against her because they look at somebody with all that money and they feel that she's wasting it, she's wasting great opportunities. She could have had a great life and she's ruining it and it's her own choice.

KING: Tony, will the hospital, do you know, say anything in the next day or two?

POTTS: I don't think so. As is policy. We may see some movement maybe late Sunday, maybe late Monday as well because the 72 hours will be over at this point and she may be released. But if the 14-day admission holds up we could be up here for a couple weeks. Although I am going home tonight, Larry. I'm not staying here through the week.

KING: Good thinking. What will it take for her to regain custody, Lynn?

SOODIK: She's going to have to get her act together. She's going to have to show the court that she's not using drugs or alcohol. She's going to have to show the court that she can obey the court's orders. She's going to show that it's the best interests of her children to have contact with her. She's got a long way to go right now.

KING: We have a e-mail for Dr. Drew. "You have a new show on VH1 called 'Celebrity Rehab.' What will the show be like and should Britney be on it?

PINSKY: Well, I would love to treat Britney if I had the opportunity to. But she would take up the whole show by herself I'm afraid. But the reality is that celebrities have more personality issues around what we call the narcissism than the average person, they have more addiction than the average person and we were interested in really showing what happens to somebody like Britney Spears behind the scenes when they actually are treated.

And it's nothing that anybody has ever seen before. It's going to end the discussion about celebrities being on vacation, or why can't people simply get their act together. These are people with very serious medical problems, they need intensive treatment sustained over a long period of time. There are some excerpts from the show, in fact.

My hope is in fact and by the way these are actual footage of people doing drugs. None of this is staged in any way. We just filmed treatment is all we did. But my hope is that they will continue to use custody as a carrot for her to someday achieve if she sustains herself in treatment.

I will tell you, it's the desire to live, the fear that you're going to die if you keep using drugs, or the desire to retain your children are two of the most powerful motivators for drug addicts that I have dealt with.

KING: Carlos?

DIAZ: Keep in mind, we joked last year about Anna Nicole and about her state and her mental state before her death and we joked about Britney Spears, and we have joked a lot. I think today's the day we stop joking and we take a serious look at this problem.

KING: You know her, Ryan, do you think she's going to come through it?

SMITH: I think she has to. I mean she's at a stage now where she has no choice. I do believe that before hand it was something where you could say, come on, Britney get it together. Now we're seeing the state that she's in and we're realizing she does have a true mental problem. KING: Would you bet on it, Lynn?

SOODIK: I wouldn't bet on it but I would hope for it.

KING: Thank you all very much.

Tony will remain with us for one more segment. We're going to meet some TV judges, we thank Ryan, Carlos and Lynn and Dr. Pinsky. We'll be right back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Today is the day the Britney Spears story turns tragic.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New drama involving Britney Spears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Britney news, strapped to a gurney, rushed to a hospital. Her baby boys on the scene.


KING: We always like to bring in the thoughts of what we like to call Legal Eagles on topics like this. With us is in Savannah, Georgia is Judge David Young, the host of his own show called Judge David Young; here in Los Angeles, Judge Greg Mathis, the host of Justice Mathis; and in Phoenix, Judge Lynn Tyler, the judge on Divorce Court, the host of Decision House, as well, on My Network TV.

Speaking of My Network TV, Tony Potts of "Access Hollywood," who remains with us, is the host of "Celebrity Expose" on My Network TV. so the judges can respond, Tony. Bring us up to date on what happened with the children today. Give us the latest legal.

POTTS: What happened was that the judge -- Mark David Kaplan (ph), who's the attorney for Kevin Federline went in after being here last night, going to the house and seeing what was going on and providing authorities with legal papers to show them that they could go in and get the children, decided that he needed to go to court today and, in an emergency session, had the kids basically taken away from Britney.

Kevin now has sole custody of the kids until further notice. The next court hearing, I believe, is on the 14th. So from now until then Britney cannot see the kids. And she'll be in the hospital for the next 48 hours. She's been there almost 24 now.

One think I want to tell you really quickly, Larry, I'd like to pick up on, I have known Lynn Spears over the years. I have been backstage with Britney at concerts around the country. I've seen what she's done as a parent. And we have talked about her getting -- people around the country saying she's a bad parent. When I saw her back in the day, during Britney's hay-day, she was always there, always attentive. Jamie Lynne was always running around backstage before the concerts, as well, having fun. There was a kids room and what have you. Any time a child blows up and becomes huge and becomes an adult, the parental responsibilities really are kind of off. And I think she's done a pretty good job. And she's always been concerned. And she's trying now to help her daughter in any way that she can.

KING: Thanks, Tony. Tony Potts at Cedars Sinai. Judge Young, first of all, on custody, can the judge take this custody away forever?

JUDGE DAVID YOUNG, HOST, "JUDGE DAVID YOUNG": They can under what they call a termination of parental rights. But what you have here, Larry, is you really have a co-occurring disordering going on. I listened very carefully to your guests in the first part of the show. They all seemed to indicate that it's substance abuse.

I have been calling for the last year that there needs to be a thorough mental evaluation done on Britney Spears. I think everything that's going on with her has to do with a mental disorder. It really needs to be put into focus. This, hopefully, will give the judge enough information to make a determination of what's in the best interests of the children.

KING: If it is, Judge Mathis, some severe mental disorder, what can happen legally?

JUDGE GREG MATHIS, "JUDGE MATHIS": Well, the judge can do as he's done thus far, determine if she is a danger to herself and others. Those are the requirements in which you must be able to detain someone, based on the mental health condition. And he can require treatment and medication, whichever might be prescribed by therapists. I think, in this case, he's done the right thing, 72 hours, hold her.

If the mental health observers determine that she needs to stay longer because she might be a danger to herself or others, then they can petition to have her remain within those quarters and thereby treat her with further therapy.

KING: Judge Toler, who does the judge rely on?

JUDGE LYNN TOLER, HOST, "DIVORCE COURT": The judge relies on the psychiatric evaluation. That is very important because it is difficult from a distance or from a -- for a non-professional to really say what is -- where does the substance abuse start; where does it stop; what is willful behavior; what is a psychosis? So you really do need to have a psychiatric evaluation and listen to that and not just look at the behavior. Because those behaviors all can be the same but have different sources.

KING: Judge Young, what do you make of the lawyers removing themselves?

YOUNG: Obviously, the lawyers couldn't control Britney Spears and that's why he removed himself. Going back to what's being said; this should have been done, Larry, in the very beginning. The judge should have conditioned the visitation on a complete mental workup, because if you look at the history of Britney Spears, it's a sad and sordid history. All of it has to do with very erratic behavior.

We have all said drugs and alcohol. But what she's doing is, because she's not feeling well, and there is something going on up there, she's self-medicating. And she's self-medicating by using alcohol and by using drugs. This should have been readily apparent and this should have been done months ago. It's very sad and very tragic.

KING: Is she in contempt, Judge Mathis?

MATHIS: Certainly, she's in contempt of the order that he's issued previously, that is the report for drug analysis in the past. She failed to do that in a timely manner. And in this case, failure to proceed with a deposition in a timely manner might be grounds for contempt. So several ways, I believe, she's in contempt.

KING: Judge Toler, could she be arrested for this?

TOLER: For the failure to have the children -- to turn over the children, absolutely. I mean you have in statutes in many states, there's child stealing, and we have had statutes enacted just to deal with these things. You cannot take children over whom you do not have custody.

KING: Legally, where is she at now, Judge Young?

YOUNG: Legally, she is in a state of flux, obviously. She lost custody of her children. And I know there's a hearing on the 14th of January. And I guess at this time the judge will make a determination as to what Britney's mental status is, and to come up with a placement plan to return the children.

Children are usually not -- Parents rights are usually not taken away from them because of mental situations. There is, of course, a treatment they have to go through. And I think the court's going to have to come down with a certain type of mental health treatment plan for Britney Spears if there's going to be any hope for those children.

KING: Judge Mathis can Kevin Federline file motions?

MATHIS: Absolutely, he can file a motion on the 14th for permanent custody. However, it must be based on something that the medical expert that is currently evaluating her says, or it could be based on outside evidence that we are not privileged to at this point that he might bring to the forefront.

KING: Obviously Judge Toler, she needs help.

TOLER: Obviously. This might be the best thing that could happen to her. She obviously has lost the ability to self-regulate, due to whatever concerns she has. And we're all just guessing her because we're not inside her head. And it's a very difficult thing to do. But requiring her to be overseen and to get medicated or do whatever it is or get psychological counseling, or whatever she needs to do, is obviously necessary, since she's apparently gone into rehab several times and not stayed since it was a voluntary thing and she had the option of getting out. So clearly this could help her.

KING: Thank you all very much, outstanding contributions. Should churches be tax exempt? That's the quick vote right now on our website, And when we come back, we'll talk with televangelist and mega-church pastor Creflo Dollar. His ministry raises millions of dollars and now Congress wants to take a look at his collection plate.

Plus, it will tell you how you can be prosperous in 2008 and help create the life you want. Don't go away.


Dr. CREFLO DOLLAR, TELEVANGELIST: So it is Biblical to come into church with an offering. Amen.



KING: And a return visit to LARRY KING LIVE for Dr. Creflo Dollar, the founder and senior pastor of World Changes Church International. He is one of six television and mega-church preachers being investigated by the Senate. His new book is "Eight Steps to Create the Life You Want, The Anatomy of a Successful Life." And we'll talk about the eight steps in a little while. But first, Senator Grassley -- last time you were with us, we discussed the fact that he wanted all the details of your finances and what goes where and I understand you have declined to give that?

DOLLAR: Yes, sir.

KING: Why?

DOLLAR: We don't believe there's any legal obligation to do so, based on the Church Audit Act of 1984, which Senator Grassley co- sponsored. He made it very clear that there were protections for church organizations. For example, there's a difference between a church and a tax exempt organization. All churches are tax exempt, but not all tax exempt organizations are churches.

KING: Right, like a charity.

DOLLAR: Like a charity, so what happens is the church is exempt from annual filings and disclosure requirements that other tax exempt organizations have to be responsible for. Churches are exempt from filing a 990 Form, which is basically information return form.

KING: But when you see people complain about billions of dollars being spent on a luxurious lifestyle, wouldn't it be smart to give the information morally?

DOLLAR: It wouldn't be smart to give the information for the entire public to examine.

KING: Why? DOLLAR: Because you don't want to get involved with excessive entanglement with the First Amendment. There are some people who don't want their information to be exposed so other people can take them through the scrutiny of why they decided to give to this ministry or why they decided to support --

KING: I'm talking about you, Doctor Dollar, what have you got to hide?

DOLLAR: I don't have anything to hide. I want to make sure that if a senator has some obligation and responsibility to keeping the law and the process -- if there are certain laws and processes that are there to protect privacy, then I want to make sure I take full example of those laws.

KING: So it has nothing to do with excessive spending.

DOLLAR: Nothing at all. We are fully compliant with the IRS. The IRS gets our taxes. The IRS, we comply with us 100 percent. And what I would prefer is if you wanted the information, then you would go ahead and tell the IRS to issue a subpoena, come in and evaluate it. And then we would have no problems doing that.

KING: Do you think they should do that?

DOLLAR: They have a right to do that. And if they chose to do that, then what we would have is protection by Code 6103, where the IRS is required to keep the Privacy Act for those who turn the information over.

KING: Do you ever, Doctor Dollar, that whether you should spend anything lavish on yourself, as long as some people are without?

DOLLAR: What's your question again?

KING: Do you ever think why should I spend lavishly on myself when there are some people who don't have anything? That's not God's message I don't think.

DOLLAR: The Bible says, Jesus said, the poor you will have with you always. But the miscalculated assumption is that if we buy anything nice, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are not helping people who are without. Our ministry helps people all over the world who are without. We give millions of dollars a year to help people who are without. We personally help people who are without. We have purchased homes for people. I have purchased over 100 cars for people. It's a part of the gospel that if you have to give to go and give.

KING: So then wonders why wouldn't you show all that?

DOLLAR: Again --

KING: That's a pretty good thing to show.

DOLLAR: If you could see it all, then what you would find out is a lot of good things. But that's not the point. The point is there are laws and processes in place --

KING: You're saying this is a principle?

DOLLAR: It's a principle.

KING: We'll be right back with Doctor Dollar. We'll also talk about his new book. But first, let's check in with Anderson Cooper. He will host "AC 360" at the top of the hour. He's in New York. What's up, Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, a lot coming up tonight, it is all about New Hampshire, all the candidates are battling it out there, racing against the clock to either stage a comeback or solidify a win. Barack Obama, Mike Huckabee making history last night and have completely altered everything anyone thought they knew about this race. Tonight, we're going to look at what they did right in Iowa and see if the same strategy is going to work in New Hampshire just four days from now.

Also tonight, what happened to the Clinton machine and how will they rebound. if they will. We'll dig deeper on all of it with the best political team on TV.

And we'll bring you the story of how a window washer fell 500 feet and lived to tell about it. That and the latest on Britney Spears' meltdown and our first 360 guest announcer. You won't want to miss it at the top of the hour.

KING: You have a guest announcer?

COOPER: We do, you know, NBC had hired Michael Douglas, with all this hoopla. We're going for our own celebrity distinctive voices.

KING: Cute. Hey listen, Anderson Cooper, 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. We'll be right back with Dr. Dollar. Don't go away.


DOLLAR: So it is Biblical to come into the church with an offering. Amen. Make sure that you can't be bought. Make sure that you have money, but make sure that money never has you.

And remember, you give because you love god, because you honor god, and because you respect god.



KING: Dr. Creflo Dollar has a new book out, "Eight Steps to Create the Life You Want, the Anatomy of a Successful Life." Success meaning financial success?

DOLLAR: Success meaning being able to fulfill your purpose and the reason why you're here.

KING: And you figured it out and have broken it down into eight steps?

DOLLAR: I believe I have. It starts out with words. Words are very important. We have four basic needs that every human has to get met. Number one, you have the need of acceptance, feeling that you're loved and needed. You have a need of identity, feeling that you are significant and special.

You have a need of security, feeling that you are protected and you'll be cared for. And then finally, a need for understanding your purpose and the reason why you're alive and why you live. Now if those four basic human needs are not met, you're going to have trouble. If you don't get them met by parents, if you don't get them met somehow, you're going to end up in a bad situation.

So what I had an opportunity to do in this book is to divide it up into eight steps so that you can understand life. And if you don't like where you are, then you can at least diagnose life and then fix it and do some repairs and some adjustments so that you can live a successful life.

KING: Am I better person the more money I have?

DOLLAR: No, you're not. Prosperity -- money by itself cannot define prosperity. But prosperity is defined as wholeness in every area of your life, spirit, soul, body, family, marriage. It includes money, but money is not the basis of success.

KING: Are you successful?

DOLLAR: I'm successful because I believe I found the will of god for my life.

KING: Did you find it early on?

DOLLAR: Yes, sir, I found it at the age of 22 on a college campus. And I really didn't want to be a preacher. In fact, I didn't like preachers because in those days the preachers used to come over to your house and eat up all the chicken before anybody else got a chance to sit down and eat. But I had an opportunity to understand that there was a calling on my life and anointing to fulfill the will of god in my life.

KING: The book is "Eight Steps to Create the Life You Want." Dr. Creflo Dollar is the author. We have an email from Jaime in Bend, Oregon; are the monetary amounts you spend yearly for your multiple homes and cars and luxuries equal to or less than what the church provides to those in need within the congregation.

DOLLAR: Much less, much, much less.

KING: But when they something -- Do you need plural -- do you need more than one home?

DOLLAR: No, you don't need more than one home. But, you know, people in our society today have always had a problem with excess. And we don't have any problems with movie stars having more than one home. We don't have any problems with sports people having more than one home. But, boy, if you get a man of god that has more than one home, then he's got to be doing something wrong.

KING: That's because the man of god claims to be preaching the word of god. And the sports star doesn't. The movie star doesn't.

DOLLAR: But the word of god says, and he makes it very clear in proverbs, the blessings of the lord maketh rich and addeth no sorrow. See, Larry, we also believe in the gospel of prosperity that god wants you to be successful in every endeavor of your life.

KING: Including rich?

DOLLAR: Including financially.

KING: We'll be welcome back with some more moments with Dr. Creflo Dollar. The book, "Eight Steps to Create the Life You Want." Don't go away.


DOLLAR: We give you praise, lord, that we're not where we used to be. We're not what we used to be.

Touch, heal, deliver, set free, make whole, whatever's wrong, make it right, send every devil to flight and give us life. We give you praise in this place.



KING: We're back with Dr. Creflo Dollar, "Eight Steps to Create the Life You Want." You preach what's called the prosperity gospel. Is Dollar is your real last name?

DOLLAR: I promise you Dollar is my real last name.

KING: I thought you were going to say something like buck.

DOLLAR: Somebody asked, they said, why did your mom name your Dollar? I don't know, but I'm glad she didn't name me Creflo One Dollar.

KING: Dollar is your last name? It was your father's name, Dollar?

DOLLAR: Yes, it is.

KING: We have an email from Janet in Wichita, Kansas; what is the one thing I can do first thing tomorrow to make me rich?

DOLLAR: Well, again, we have to make sure we understand what rich really is. And I define rich as being whole in every area of your life, spirit, should, body, marriage and finances. A man can have a million dollars in the bank but be dying of cancer. He's just a poor man with a million dollars in the bank because he still lacks healing. It's not money that's going to make you rich. It's going to be whole in every area of your life.

KING: You have a church in Georgia, right, outside of Atlanta?


KING: But you also preach in New York at Madison Square Garden?

DOLLAR: Madison Square Garden about 85 percent of the time.

KING: Is that just anybody? Is it a named church?

DOLLAR: World Changes Church in New York and the one in Atlanta is World Changes Church International. And then we have one in Battle Creek, Michigan, World Changes Church Battle Creek. And in two weeks we're opening four more up in Queens, Brooklyn, Marietta, Georgia, and Carolton, Georgia.

KING: How do you divide your time?

DOLLAR: Satellite technology. What we do is we beam those other churches in. I fly up personally to do New York and Atlanta. But the other church, we send a live stream to them and they get the message through technology.

KING: What do we mean by World Changes Churches?

DOLLAR: World Changes Churches is basically we want to make an impact in the lives of people so that they can go and change their world and thus go in and change the world that they have to deal with every day of their lives. So we believe that the way we can change your world is by changing the way you think.

KING: Do you think you'll resolve all this with the Senate?

DOLLAR: I believe we will. In fact, I sent a later to Senator Grassley and invited him to the church to worship with us. I want people to understand that our responsibility as Christians is always walk in love no matter what.

KING: Good luck on the tour and thank you for joining us. Our guest has been Dr. Creflo Dollar. The book is "Eight Steps to Create the Life You Want, The Anatomy of a Successful Life." There you see its cover.

As always, you can head to We now have a special King of Politics section. Watch our exclusive web interview with presidential candidate Ron Paul. I even hit the streets to talk issues with the folks. You can also email upcoming guests, download our podcast, sign up for our news letter. We're always online at

Now a man who's not only always on, but who now has his own announcer. That's when you've made it, man. Anderson -- I'll be his first announcer. Her's -- Ladies and gentlemen, "AC 360" and Anderson Cooper.