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CNN Larry King Live

Twister Terror; Space Alien Caught on Tape?; Michigan and Florida Likely Decided on Saturday

Aired May 30, 2008 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, twisters caught on tape -- tornadoes tearing across the American Midwest. Seven people killed in Kansas alone, setting the stage for the deadliest year on record.
Tonight, survivor stories from those who lived to tell and video you won't believe -- twisters ripping uptown after town.

Plus, just released images of a space alien? Close encounters of a bogus claim?

Meet the man who saw it and says they're here.

Plus, politics next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening. A lot going on.

First, we'll deal with these terrible weather conditions. In Atlanta is Chad Myers, CNN's weather anchor and severe weather expert. In Kearney, Nebraska, Whitney Schneider and Danette Sughroue. They are survivors and friends of Thursday's tornadoes. And then in a while we'll meet Dr. Joshua Wurman.

Chad, simply put, what's going on?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: More tornadoes tonight, Larry. We had about 20 of them yesterday. We're probably looking at another five or six tonight. And some of the storms are very strong. These tornadoes are on the ground right now.

We do know that Taylorville, Illinois or right near Pawnee, Illinois, had a tornado on the ground a little bit ago. And you are still seeing that tornado warning right now. It is still on the ground by storm spotters.

A little bit farther to the east of there, we're looking at about -- that's about Tuscola, Illinois or so. And that's still on the ground, as well.

And then, a little bit farther to the east of that, even into Indiana tonight, Larry, this is still going on. And that is about Waveland, moving in a little bit farther to the east than that, north of Indianapolis.

Tornadoes everywhere. Already more tornadoes this year than we should have had for the entire year of 2008. And it's just turning to June. KING: Simply put again, why?

MYERS: A couple of reasons. We've had something called an omega block. An omega block does something -- it brings cold air down. It was a very cold winter with a bunch of snow in the Rocky Mountains. This cold air -- it's actually the opposite of global warming. We have a lot of warm air where it's supposed to be, but cold air has been continuing to have been pulled down by these low pressure centers and that area of enhanced tornadic activity right there in the middle of the country. 1,258 confirmed tornadoes so far in 2008.

Cold air doesn't like to mix with warm air. When they get close together, they cause storms. And we've had our share this year.

KING: Don't go away, Chad.

We'll get right back to you.

Whitney Schneider and Danette Sughroue join us from Kearney, Nebraska. They are friends.

What happened last night, Whitney?

WHITNEY SCHNEIDER, TORNADO SURVIVOR: Well, we got off early from work because of tornado warnings in the area. And we decided to go to the next apartment because she had a garden level basement, basically. My apartment does not. My apartment is only a block away from hers, but the tornado hit where hers was. We both lost our cars and lots of damage to that area.

KING: Lost your cars, Danette, how? Were they blown away?

DANETTE SUGHROUE, TORNADO SURVIVOR: No. Basically, the back windows and some of the side windows were taken out. And then the back ends of our cars are also crushed in pretty good.

KING: Whitney, did you fear the worst?

SCHNEIDER: You know, it happened so fast, we didn't even really have time to. I've always enjoyed watching storms and we kind of watched it all come in and then all of a sudden it was there and we were taking cover.

KING: Danette, does it make a loud noise?

SUGHROUE: To tell you the truth, I really didn't recognize a loud noise. It just happened so quick and we tried to run downstairs as fast as we could. So I really didn't -- I didn't notice anything.

KING: When it was all over, what damage did you notice, Whitney?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the first thing we saw when we looked outside was the clubhouse right outside her complex had been crushed in. It's a brick building and the walls were all cracked and bent over. The roof was gone and lots of damage to that building. We didn't really notice much else right away. That was the first thing that we saw. KING: Do you fear another one, Danette?

SUGHROUE: I hope not.

KING: Yes. Good way to put it. We never know.

Thank you.

Whitney Schneider and Danette Sughroue. And we're so you're around to tell us.

KING: Also, in Kearney, Nebraska is...

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

KING: Thank you -- is Dr. Joshua Wurman, a researcher meteorologist, founder of the Center for Severe Weather Research, part of the Dow -- D-O-W -- Doppler on Wheels, the team on Discovery Channel's "Storm Chasers."

Dr. Wurman, what do you make of this?

DR. JOSHUA WURMAN, METEOROLOGIST, STORM CENTER: We were here when the tornado went through Kearney. And we show up with our radar. We scan right through and we make maps of the wind. We sent an armored tank into town to collect measurements. And we're trying to understand both how these tornadoes form and why stronger ones form, and, also, the relationship between the winds that we measure with radars and what's actually happening at the ground causing damage.

KING: Do we know why this is the year of the twister?

WURMAN: As your meteorologist said, there have just been meteorological conditions this year that have been very favorable for tornadoes. Some years that happens, some years it doesn't. There's not really a link that's well established between any kind of global warming or climate change and the frequency of tornadoes.

KING: Does this portend the worst to come?

WURMAN: Well, we're only midway through the season, so I would expect that there will be a lot more tornadoes. And, unfortunately, we've already had a well above average year.

KING: Anything to do with global warming?

WURMAN: Not that we know of. It's not just warm conditions that cause more tornadoes. For all scientists know, when global warming happens there will be fewer tornadoes. The link is really poorly understood.

KING: Why do you chase them?

WURMAN: We're trying to understand them better. We're trying to enable warnings to be better. Right now, warnings happen with a lead time of 13 minutes. I think we could do better. Warnings have a 70 percent false alarm rate because we're being so careful about warnings. I think that could be better. If we could warn people with half an hour or even an hour lead time and warn people of the worst, violent tornadoes, then people could take better actions to save their lives and property.

KING: Thank you, Dr. Wurman. Dr. Joshua Wurman, part of the D-O- W team -- Doppler on Wheels.

Chad, would you chase them?

MYERS: I did. I worked in Oklahoma City for three years. Absolutely. Saw my fair share of them. And, you know, it's not like the movie "Twister," Larry. You don't drive right up to the tornado and take pictures of it. You stay back. You were always in contract with the TV station. You always have somebody else on the other phone -- the other side of your phone looking at the radar.

You are -- a car and a camera does not make you a tornado chaser, it just makes you dangerous. That's all it makes you. But there are scientists like the doctor, that were -- they know what they're doing. They have their own Doppler right with them.

KING: Yes.

MYERS: And they can stay out of the way. They and some people -- some people can do it very safely. Others, you need to be careful.

KING: Could a tornado happen anywhere?

MYERS: Sure. Yes, it happened in Atlanta. I mean, you know, there's this myth that people want to say oh, you know what, we live in the city. It will never -- never hit us because we're in this heat bubble. That is completely a myth. There's nothing to that at all. We had an F2 tornado right in downtown Atlanta this year, just a couple of months ago. And this building is still torn up. We have windows all over -- out all over the place, probably a thousand windows out of this building.

And one of the generals, General Honore came in and talked to us yesterday about what we're going to do for hurricane season and how we're going to interact.

And he said why do people that do the news live in glass houses?

Hey, guys, you throw stones.

Why do you live in a glass house?

And he goes, that's all of our -- half of our windows are out of this building, Larry.

KING: Thanks, Chad.

MYERS: Sure.

KING: As usual, great reporting. Chad Myers, CNN weather anchor and severe weather expert.

You'll meet a woman whose life was saved by clinging to the only thing left for her to grab on and we'll tell you what it was, right after this.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's here. Push all the buttons. Push all the buttons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tib (ph) is positioned directly in the path of the tornado.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes. She's rocking a bit. She's rocking. Yes, she's shuddering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The swirling winds of the twister reach 200 miles per hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on, guys. Hold on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the tib's biggest test ever.



KING: Joining us now in Parkersburg, Iowa is Claire Keller, the reporter for CNN affiliate KCRG.

Also in Parkersburg is Ron and Mary Kolder, survivors of Sunday's devastating tornado in Parkersburg. The twister was an F5. That's the first F5 in the United States since the tornado that obliterated Greensburg, Kansas last May.

And on the phone, Traci Schrader and Kay Stowell. We'll ask about their experiences.

Claire, what happened in Parkersburg?

CLAIRE KELLET, KCRG-TV REPORTER: Well, obviously, as you walk around and talk to the people here in Parkersburg, at every home there is a different story. But the one word that always comes up is unbelievable. You had a tornado, at times, that was a mile wide, traveling at speeds of up to 200 miles per hour, literally leveled homes here in Parkersburg, as many as 200 homes.

You know, you talk to people. They come up out of their basements after the tornado had passed and they said they were just looking at match sticks. I mean I'm standing here now at what used to be a home. I'm looking at the garage area here. I mean everything here was destroyed.

KING: Wow!

Did you witness any of it, Claire?

KELLET: No. Actually, that night, Larry, I was back in our newsroom there covering it, manning the phones and actually anchoring the night. But the crews that were out here -- you know, our crew that first came on the scene, you know, they had to walk two miles to get here. Emergency officials were here on scene right away, keeping everybody away because they -- they themselves had no idea what had happened exactly here in Parkersburg.

KING: Ron and Mary, the Kolders, what happened?

Ron, what happened where you were?

RON KOLDER, TORNADO SURVIVOR: Well, we was sitting in the sun room watching TV and we heard the Weather Channel beeper go off and tell us that the weather was bad. And so we turned the TV to the station that we could listen to the weather. And they had warned us, oh, in plenty good time, that something was coming. And the thing was that only four miles from here that the tornado started.

And so we headed to the basement and got under the basement steps and heard this awful rumble. And our ears were popping. And then after that, we got up, came up the steps and the sun was shining.

KING: What happened, if anything, to your house, Mary?

MARY KOLDER, TORNADO SURVIVOR: We have about four walls around my son's bedroom and that's about all that's left. The garage totally gone. The car was sitting there, but it was damaged. All the glass is busted out. We had no living room walls. Two of our bedroom walls were gone. Our daughter's room, there was only one wall really standing and that was it.

KING: Ron, where were your son and daughter?

R. KOLDER: Well, we got down to the basement. We had a basement stairs there. So we moved some stuff out of the way. And then we got underneath those steps and we just huddled down there. And like I said, it didn't take long at all. We were coming right back out again.

KING: So your son and daughter were you with you, Mary?

M. KOLDER: That's correct, Larry. We got them in first so that they were the first ones underneath the steps and then we sheltered them.

KING: Nobody hurt?

M. KOLDER: No. Not a scratch.

KING: Traci Schrader is...

M. KOLDER: We just thank god for that, that...

KING: Traci Schrader is with us on the phone.

What happened to you, Traci?



SCHRADER: Well, I'm from Greensburg, as you mentioned. And that night we had a lot of great warning of the tornado coming toward Greensburg. And I moved my two boys into the bathroom, which had no exterior windows. And we sat around the toilet in my bathroom. And the sirens were going off. And once the electricity went off, the sirens had quit. And I didn't realize that was as the tornado was hitting the town.

So I stood up to open the bathroom door. And the walls started shaking and the bed going crazy. And I yelled at the boys to get down. And I jumped and put my youngest son between my older son and I, and huddled over the top of them around the base of the toilet in our bathroom.

And as the tornado hit, everything -- all my walls and all my belongings lifted up and away from us with nothing hitting us. We were very blessed.

And once we laid there for a while, the tornado made a curve and it started hailing and blowing really hard again. So we covered with blankets that we had and just laid there until the storm passed.

KING: Wow! That was -- we just saw pictures of your house. You grabbed onto the toilet?

SCHRADER: Yes. Yes, did. And I had the boys pretty well underneath me. I was up over the top of them as much as I could. We were just kind of wrapped up in a ball and...

KING: Wow!

SCHRADER: ...we just didn't have anything hit us. And we -- we were very blessed.

KING: Where are you living now?

SCHRADER: We moved actually to Minneola. It was a good choice for us as a family. And Greensburg is making some really great progress. And I'm very proud of that, because it's my hometown. But we're happy with the life that we've started here, too.

KING: I imagine you are.

Let's check in with Kay Stowell. Her young grandson, Kyson (ph), survived one of the deadly tornadoes that ripped through Tennessee in February. Sadly, the little boy's mom was killed in the storm.

What happened, Kay? Were you -- did you witness any of this? KAY STOWELL, FAMILY MEMBER OF TORNADO CAUSALITY: Well, sir, she called me on the phone at 10:00 and said mama said I believe the tornadoes is over. I don't have no television, and said it's real quiet. And I was watching TV. And I said, no baby. I said they're coming at you right now. And I said take cover, Carrie.

And she was talking to me on her cell phone and her cell phone just went dead.

KING: And it killed her?

STOWELL: And it killed her, yes.

KING: How old was the boy that survived?

STOWELL: He was 11 months old.

KING: Are you taking care of him now?

STOWELL: Yes, we all are. Him, me and his grandfather and his father and his other grandmother. We're trying our best to take care of him.

KING: How do you get over something like that?

STOWELL: Sir, I don't know. I haven't -- I haven't managed that yet. It's really hard. It's really hard.

KING: Boy.

And is the town OK now?

STOWELL: Yes. Yes, sir. They're cleaning up and recovering and it's just really sad.

KING: Someone thought the boy was a doll?

STOWELL: Yes. The firemen had -- they had done went through the area. And the lady that lived next door, she got killed and she collected dolls. So she thought that -- they thought that it was a doll. And when the firefighters said it was a doll, my grandson, which was laying face down in the mud, his little butt cheeks started moving. And the firemen said no, this is not a doll. This is a real human being.

And they ran over and they grabbed him. And my husband and I, we live approximately four miles from where my daughter lived. And it took us three hours to get there. But right as we got to her house, we seen the fireman bring my grandson and laid him on the pavement. And he wasn't moving or nothing. And they said you all talk to him.

So me and his grandfather started, you know, talking to him. And then he just come to and started crying. And they said that was a good sign.

KING: It sure was. Thank you, Kay.

Thank you, Claire and Ron and Mary and Traci, too.

STOWELL: Thank you very much for caring enough to share our story.

KING: Sure.

Thank you for sharing it.

The vagaries of weather.

What would you do if an extraterrestrial looked through your window? I know what I would do. I'd check what I was drinking.

I'll ask the man who says it happened to me and recorded it. That's next.


KING: All right. We have an extraordinary story out of Denver.

Let's meet our panelists.

Stan Romanek is the man who claims to have shot footage of an extraterrestrial.

Jeff Peckman is pushing for a ballot initiative to establish an extraterrestrial affairs commission on the Denver City Council.

James Meadow is a reporter with the "Rocky Mountain News". He attended today's showing of a video that purports to show a space alien.

And Jerry Hoffman is an instructor at the Colorado Film School, a veteran film editor who has analyzed the footage shot by Stan Romanek.

Stan, when did take this? What did you see?

STAN ROMANEK, SHOT VIDEO OF "SPACE ALIEN": It was July 17th, 2003. I actually thought we had a peeping Tom. I was living in Nebraska at the time. I had twin teenage -- young teenage twin daughters. Every time I -- every once in a while at night I'd get up, let's say to go to the kitchen from watching TV. And the windows were open and I'd see a head, it looked like, out of the corner of my eye, some movement in the window. And every time I ran outside to try to catch who I thought was looking in our window, there was nobody there.

I talked to some of the researchers and scientists involved in my case and they suggested well, you know, next time this happens, get your video camera out, put it on a tripod, put it on night shot and pretend you're going to bed.

So I did exactly that. I actually got my camera ready, put it on a tripod, pointed it toward the window and instead of going to bed, I actually went to the next room and got a magazine and watched to see if I could maybe see it for myself, catch it. And that's how it all happened.

KING: And this was five years ago?


KING: Why is it just coming to light now?

ROMANEK: Well, there's a lot of things involved with my case, a lot of evidence. The reason it's coming out now -- we wanted -- well, there's a lot of scientists and researchers involved my case and we wanted to make sure that...

KING: Your case being what?

A case meaning what?

ROMANEK: Well, there's a lot of encounters involved with my case -- a lot of UFO encounters involved with my case. And there's a lot of physical evidence. And we wanted to make sure that all the evidence has been looked at by serious scientists. And...

KING: All right.

ROMANEK: ...I have -- the reason it's taken so long, if it were up to me, I would have just given this all out a long time ago. But the researchers and scientists say, you know, we want -- if you want this documented correctly, if you want us to make sure that, you know, everything's what it looks like it is then, you know, let us do that before you give it out to the public.


James Meadow, you watched it right, correct?

You've seen the video?

JAMES MEADOW, REPORTER, "ROCKY MOUNTAIN NEWS": I have been at the video. That's right, Larry.

KING: Tell us what you think of it.

MEADOW: Well, it's a little bit odd. I mean it's spooky, on the one hand, to think that this might be an alien. But to tell you the truth, it's -- I mean there's not much there -- at least what we saw. We only saw like about a minute, two minutes.

It's grainy. It's dark. There's a kind of a skull shaped head that floats up. Dark spaces for the eyes. And it looked a little bit like one of the glow in the dark heads I got when I was in Roswell, New Mexico on a trip. And I mean no disrespect, but that's kind of what it looked like. You're being told that this is an actual alien or an extraterrestrial, but, in fact, I don't know. I mean and -- you know, you're a journalist. We're skeptical by nature. We major in cynicism.

KING: Well, why won't they show it -- why couldn't we show it tonight?

MEADOW: Are you talking to me?

KING: Yes.

Does anyone know why?

Stan why couldn't we show it tonight?

ROMANEK: Because I have an agreement with the scientists not to do that until they have had a chance to actually do their analyzation of it and to...

KING: But it's been five years. You've shown it to the "Rocky Mountain News".

ROMANEK: Yes. But they don't want to have it released to the public yet. They want to make sure that it's been scrutinized correctly. Obviously, if it were up to me, I'd let everybody have it. But, you know, that's not (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Jeff Peckman, what do you make of it?

JEFF PECKMAN, SAYS "E-T AFFAIRS COMMISSION" NEEDED: Well, it was convincing to me. But I had also seen that at the end of a two or three hour presentation by Stan on two occasions. And it's really just one sliver of a hundred different experiences that he's had, unique experiences. And so it's kind of a visual -- a final visual confirmation that what I was starting to believe, based on all this other evidence and witness testimony from top secret employees in the government and other stories -- other aspects of his story, it just seemed kind of natural and fit everything else. So it was very believable to me.

KING: OK. By the way, we are showing one frame from it. It's hard to see it too clearly, but we are showing one frame.

Jerry Hoffman, an instructor in the Colorado Film School and a veteran film editor, what's your analysis of the footage?

JERRY HOFFMAN, INSTRUCTOR, COLORADO FILM SCHOOL: Well, it's -- the footage was definitely shot with a consumer camera. It was shot -- it's the last shot that's on the end of a bunch of home movies that he had shot earlier of them going to the zoo. And the time code on the tape is consistent throughout the entire previous footage to the shot of the creature. And there's time of day code, which is also consistent throughout this entire tape. So it was a one shot thing, done in camera.

I don't believe that, if you look at the -- if you look at the image, you can see the reflection of the back wall in the glass. And so the creature -- the head comes up and that and that reflection is over his face. So he's definitely on the other side of the glass. And to key that or to create that key in DV footage, which is what this is -- and it is a camera master that I analyzed -- is extremely difficult with that particular format so...


KING: James -- all right. Hold on. We'll come back with you.

James will be leaving us and another gentleman will replace him when this -- James, would you say further exploration needed?

MEADOW: Oh, further probing is probably need, Larry, I would say.

KING: OK. We'll probe it ourselves.

James Meadow, a reporter with the "Rocky Mountain News."

Stan, during the break, we'd like you to draw it what you saw.


KING: Draw it and show it to us when we come back.

ROMANEK: I'll try to.

KING: Well, try.

ROMANEK: I'll try to.

KING: Try. Try.

We'll come right back.


KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. Matthew Baxter is an investigator for the Rocky Mountain Paranormal Society. His society claims to have experience in fraud detection. We'll get to Matthew in a moment. Stan, did you do a drawing?

ROMANEK: Yes, I sure did.

KING: Can you put it up towards the camera?

ROMANEK: Sorry it is not that good but --

KING: That looks like -- that's E.T.

ROMANEK: Well, kind of. What they don't tell you -- I'm not sure if the quality of the video they showed at the press conference was that good or not -- but if you look at the video ,you can see it move its mouth, blinks the eyes. You can see the reflection of the infrared light on the night shot of the camera reflecting off its retinas.

KING: Matthew, what do you make of it? MATTHEW BAXTER, ROCKY MOUNTAIN PARANORMAL SOCIETY: I don't believe it. Don't believe it.

KING: You don't -- you believe there was nothing there?

BAXTER: No. I believe that there was a basically an alien model there. There was a prop.

KING: A prop?


KING: So this is a hoax?


KING: Stan?

ROMANEK: Well, what's interesting and I don't know -- you can go out on YouTube now, but there's a really, really bad rendition of a video supposedly; it says the official Stan Romanek E.T. video and they got an alien probably from Wal-Mart and stuck it up and tried to shoot a video. It's amazing what the debunkers will kind of --

KING: Matthew, have you seen his photo, pictures?

BAXTER: I have seen the video.

KING: You have seen the video?


KING: You don't buy it?

BAXTER: No. In fact, the video he is talking about on YouTube I made.

ROMANEK: Oh, sorry.

BAXTER: No. It's OK. It's OK. I think yours sucks so --

KING: Hey, Jeff. Based on this kind of flimsy approach, you're going for a ballot initiative to establish a whole commission on this?

PECKMAN: Right. Because these debunkers and skeptics can ask legitimate questions, but if they want to try to disprove all of the witness testimony from 400 or 500 people with top secret security clearance and witnessed the same things for themselves, and categorized 57 species of extra-terrestrials already, that's fine.

In this instance, this was the best available evidence, visual evidence that we could present. And I was doing that just to satisfy the curiosity and interest of the people who interviewed me before.

KING: Do you think they'll approve such a thing?

PECKMAN: I'm sorry.

KING: Do you think the council will approve it?

PECKMAN: Well, it is not up to the council. It is up to the voters.

KING: Oh, OK. It will go on a ballot?


KING: All right. Jerry, we either have -- Stan is either a perpetrator of a fraud or Matthew looking that the wrong way.

Where do you go with this, Jerry?

HOFFMAN: Well, you know, I don't have a -- any proof that Stan Romanek shot an alien. However, I have a hard time believing that a cheep prop was used for this. I'm quite convinced that it was shot in camera. And that it -- it is consistent with a consumer camera. It's consistent -- and the movement of the puppet is so elaborate that I think it would be an expensive puppet to make.

KING: You call it a puppet?

HOFFMAN: No. I don't have no idea whether it's a puppet or not a puppet. I'm saying it was not done in a computer system. It wasn't done as a special -- some sort of --

KING: I got you. What would Stan's point be?

BAXTER: What are you asking, what would his point where b?

KING: Putting up a puppet he got in some store, put in the window, take pictures and go through all this?

BAXTER: Well, I'm actually willing to believe that somebody could be perpetrating this on Stan. I mean, I've met Stan several times. He's a very nice guy. I like him. But I don't like his evidence is all.

KING: So you mean a friend may have put it in the window and said, Stan go take a picture?

BAXTER: You know, there's a lot of money to be made with Stan right now.

KING: I'll take a break and be back with more on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: Stan Romanek, what happens next? When will the world see this video?

ROMANEK: Hopefully soon. It is up to the scientists. I also -- you know, I want to point out that I too watched this thing when I got out of the room. I saw this thing duck down. And actually it was a full moon out, and I looked outside and this thing was running to the backyard. And when it looked at -- when it looked back at me, I realized that this thing was not normal and it literally scared the heck out of me.

KING: Did you believe in aliens, UFOs before this?

ROMANEK: No. Before my experience started, no, not at all. In fact, I was probably more a skeptic than the gentleman sitting there. I was really pretty aggressive about making fun of people, too.

KING: Matthew, are you saying he didn't see what he says he saw?

BAXTER: I can say that my experience is reverse of his. I used to believe and now I'm running the other way. It's -- it's kind of one of those crazy things. It's so hard to say what he saw, what he didn't. But I can say from what we're being shown it's not evidence. If you consider what aliens that would come to this Earth would be capable of, why would they be caught being a peeping Tom?

KING: I know. Jeff, isn't that a good point?

PECKMAN: Well, I think it's pure speculation to try to second guess alien motivations. So where do you start with that? You can say anything.

KING: If you can travel in outer space, why are you peeking in a window of a guy in Denver? Why don't you come to Washington and talk to Bush?

PECKMAN: Well, maybe they find him a very interesting specimen.

KING: OK. Jerry, what do you make of all of this? Are you open to it or not?

HOFFMAN: I'm open to it. It's an awfully large universe out there and if there's six billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy and there's billions of galaxies, I think we are rather arrogant to think we are the only life in the universe. Certainly the NASA guys, didn't they just -- aren't we on Mars probing for the possibility of life? There's some pretty serious people that have also come forward, Governor Simington and others that have come forward that have seen some phenomenon.

And Stan's case is full of -- this one shot is hardly -- is just a tip of the iceberg of this man's case. So, you know, I couldn't say we should be -- until all of the story is told about Stan that you could make a -- some kind of judgment about that.

KING: Stan, did it make any sounds?

ROMANEK: No. Actually, what happened were there were actually two flashes of light. Very, very bright flashes of light that caught my attention and that's what made me come out.

KING: But no sound? ROMANEK: But no sound. And, you know, I can't tell you. I can't tell you -- I can tell you what I saw.

KING: And you've done that very effectively. Hopefully we'll learn more. Stan Romanek, Jeff Peckman, Jerry Hoffman and Matthew Baxter, and some day maybe if it ever happens we'll find out right here.

Bob Dole rips into Scott McClellan about that tell all book. We'll talk politics when LARRY KING LIVE returns.


KING: We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE Flavia Colgan. She's a columnist and editorial writer for the "Philadelphia Daily News," a reporter for CBS early morning show, and a supporter of Obama. Reed Dickens is the former White House assistant press secretary for George Bush, who worked for Scott McClellan, who has written that explosive book, and is a supporter of McCain, and Lanny Davis is in Washington, Lanny the former special council for President Clinton and a supporter of Hillary Clinton.

Flavia, what will happen tomorrow?

FLAVIA COLGAN, OBAMA SUPPORTER: I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine.

KING: What is your guess?

COLGAN: I think Obama.

KING: He'll come out, out of the rules committee?

COLGAN: Yes. You know, I haven't -- to tell you the truth --

REED DICKENS, MCCAIN SUPPORTERS: There's going to be outrage in the Democratic party. I think that, you know --

KING: Are they going to decide Michigan and Florida tomorrow?

DICKENS: I think they have to. They can't afford to risk having a disenfranchised or depressed Michigan and Florida in November. They have to come out with some sort of a decision. It has to be some sort of compromise and I think it has to leave the current construct in place with Obama in lead and Hillary in second or they're going to have big trouble.

KING: Lanny, what is your read?

LANNY DAVIS, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I think agree with that. The party needs Michigan and Florida to win the presidency. You can't afford to disenfranchise 2.3 million people, 600,000 in Michigan, 1.7 million in Florida who turned out to vote being told that the votes wouldn't count. We have to seat them. I think both campaigns, the Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign, has to find a way because whoever's the nominee is going to need those two states. If they're not seated, you can kiss them both good-bye as I can tell.

KING: Will they come together, Flavia, these two people?

COLGAN: I think they have to, absolutely. The goal is to win in November. We see the polling now saying that says the supporters of the other side won't come over. I completely disagree with. I think that they're going to for the sake of the issues that they care about. I don't see a ticket. I know a lot of people are hopeful about that. I don't see that happening at all.

KING: Do you see a ticket?

DICKENS: No. In theory it works. On paper it works. It would energize all the right constituencies in the Democratic party.

KING: Why not?

DICKENS: In reality it would never work. I think there's a lot of raw feelings. I think Obama has campaigned on change. He basically said to the American people, hi, I'm change. How are you doing? He can't add Clintons. They're so 1990s. I wouldn't want Lanny's job for any job. They have let it go on too long. Obama is clearly going to be the nominee and they have to move forward and start focusing on November.

KING: Lanny, would your lady not accept the vice presidency?

DAVIS: I have no idea. I would love to know, what exactly was wrong with the 1990s? We had prosperity. We had jobs. We had peace. We had great relationships around the world. I can't exactly figure out what was wrong with the 1990s. A lot of America would love to have the 1990s right now rather than where we are.

I think that the ticket will be created by the grass roots in the Democratic party. Both these candidates are great candidates but they appeal to different parts of America. And I think a combination of those parts would be unbeatable. At the end of the day, Lyndon Johnson and John Kennedy were not exactly compatible, but without Johnson on the ticket, Kennedy wouldn't have been president.

It will be up to both of them, whoever's the nominee, and it's not clear which one of them will be, will have to consider the other one as a vice presidential candidate. But that's just my opinion. I have no idea what Senator Clinton believes on this subject.

KING: Flavia, what happens after Puerto Rico and South Dakota and Montana? It's all over then? The primaries are over.

COLGAN: Yes. Absolutely. I agree. I think the sooner they can be -- especially the sort of rhetoric and making sure they stay positive, because it's very difficult to run a campaign in a couple of months. I'm happy to see Obama starting to pivot more now and taking on John McCain, because I think we need to do that. So, you know, I think that's what will happen. DICKENS: Yes.

KING: How do you think McCain looks a this the? Who does he want to run against?

DICKENS: I think that the McCain Campaign expecting to run against Obama.

KING: They are now?

DICKENS: Of course. There's two strategic pillars to Barack Obama. One is that he's a uniter and two that he is a post-partisan, post-racial candidate. I think that the McCain campaign feels he is vulnerable on both fronts. One, because his mentor turned out to have said controversial things. And two, he doesn't -- he has a thin record on uniting in the Senate.

So I think they think he has a ceiling because of some cultural pockets in the electorate. He has a true ceiling with a very tough electoral map, not just because of Michigan and Florida, but West Virginia, New Jersey and some other states.

KING: Let's move to the McClellan book. Bob Dole has lashed out at Scott McClellan. He sent him an e-mail. Here's a quote, Lanny. We'll ask you all to comment.

"There are miserable creatures like you in every administration who don't have the guts to speak up or quit if there are disagreements with the boss or colleagues. No, your type soaks up the benefit of power, revels in the lime light for years, and then quits, and spurred on by greed, cashes in with a scathing critique."

The wishy washy Bob Dole at it again status quo.

DAVIS: Tell me what you really think, Bob. Look, I'm full disclosure here. I'm an old friend of President Bush's. And I think he's an honorable and decent man who happens to be wrong on a lot of policies and I differ with him and didn't vote for him. But I think he had genuine beliefs as did many others that the decision to go into Iraq was the right decision. I thought it was the wrong decision.

Therefore, I was concerned about the early reports about Scott McClellan disclosing certain events, certain conversations that in the confidence of a White House is really violation of certain understandings of confidentiality and privacy. On the other hand, having been in Scott's position, speaking to the White House press corps, not always having all the facts and then sometimes wondering why I didn't have all the facts, I just give both sides the benefit of the doubt that something really drove this young man who was so loyal to President Bush, something drove him a great deal of unhappiness to write this book and I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt it was not easy for him to do.

KING: Flavia, there are rumors today he's going to support Barack Obama. COLGAN: Yes. Now, that's definitely a big -- a big news flash for me. You know, I agree with Lanny on this. All of us would have been happier if he came out sooner. You can understand years of loyalty, wanting to give someone a benefit of the doubt. Lanny's looking for what happened. I think he is hung out to dry on Valerie Plame. That's what happened. He was sent to the podium every day and asked to lie and he found. He is decidedly upset.

What I think now is that's old news. What can we learn from this book? You know, how can we cull from what could be after reflections sort of a crisis of conscious? We are looking at an election right now and he is showing a White House that was controlled by politics instead of principle and transparency. And to hold Obama and John McCain Up to that, and say, is John McCain someone who has flip flopped on taxes, someone who has flip flopped on immigration, and if you look at it closely, on Iraq, on political expediency. That's something that you could really deduce from when and how he's done it.

So I think that for people looking at the book, it is a way to sit back and take note and say, OK, what can we do with that information now?

KING: We'll get Reed Dickens' thoughts of then in a moment. I want to remind you about a special primary results edition of LARRY KING LIVE. It's this Tuesday at midnight Eastern/9:00 Pacific. It's going to be some night. More after the break.


KING: OK, Reed, Scott McClellan?

DICKENS: First, my first observation is I want one of those aliens from the first segment to bring Scott McClellan back and take this guy that I've been watching on television to wherever they came from. I think Scott's book had a false premise to it about being off track. The president made some big bets. We won't know if they were good bets for a long time.

I think it was pathetic in substance. He didn't have any damning evidence or quotes or conversation. I was flipping through the book, waiting to find something damning, and there wasn't really anything. And then the timing so inappropriate. The president -- I mean, Scott wouldn't exist if it wasn't for this president and I think what he did was really --

KING: On ambassador Wilson though, --

DICKENS: On Valerie Plame, no one disputes that Scott was put in a terrible situation. I think he let bitterness get the best of him.

KING: Now we have another pastor problem for Obama. This is Reverend Michael Pfleger. He is a Catholic, but he was preaching at Obama's church. It's not a catholic church and he -- watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PASTOR MICHAEL PFLEDGER, CATHOLIC CHURCH: And people said that was put on. I really don't believe it was put on. I really believe that she just always thought, this is mine. I'm Bill's wife. I'm white. And this is mine. I just got to get up and step into the place and then out of nowhere came, hey, I'm Barack Obama. And she said, oh, damn! Where did you come from?

I'm white! I'm entitled! There's a black man stealing my show!


KING: Lanny, was he just trying to be funny?

DAVIS: Bigotry and hatred and hate mongering is not funny. The disgusting, repulsive people behind him cheering him on are not funny. And if Barack Obama had expressed the type of outrage that I'm expressing that everybody else expresses rather than simply just saying I'm disappointed and doing a pivot to talk about his campaign theme, I'd have been a lot more satisfied.

But having said that, this has nothing to do with Barack Obama's views or values. They're antithetical to Senator Obama. But I would like, as I wanted him to do with Reverend Wright, to speak up with outrage and anger now, rather than waiting for another event, as he did with Reverend Wright, to finally get him to denounce this terrible hater and bigot, that was allowed into the church. I'd love to know who those people are behind him cheering him on.

KING: We only got 30 seconds. Flavia is the Obama supporter. Should he come out tougher?

COLGAN: I think that he came out right away. And I think this situation is very different, because -- by the way as a Catholic, I've never seen a Catholic priest talk like that before. I don't know where he came from. But he came out and was extremely repenitent himself and gave a very heartfelt apology. I have to agree in Lanny. Maybe he was trying to be funny but it was not funny. It was very bigoted. I don't think anyone agree his comments were appropriate.

But I think the American public will judge Barack Obama on his life and the way he's run his campaign, which has nothing to do with these remarks.

KING: We're practically out of time. Is it going to hurt Obama?

DICKENS: No, other than it's his church. I wonder how you get on the guest list to speak at that church.

KING: By the way, get to our Web site, right now for our new Larry King ring tones, our latest podcast, "American Idol," and our newest feature about last night. We thank our guests. Over the weekend, we'll repeat both "American Idol" shows and a major political show on the eve of the last primaries on Monday night.

Time now for Anderson Cooper and "A.C. 360" -- Anderson.