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CNN Larry King Live
Psychic Kids
Aired July 10, 2008 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, "Psychic Kids" -- they live in our world but say they're haunted by another.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: This image of a woman came to me. And after that, she showed me a gravestone with my name on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Spooked by spirits and shadows, panicked by premonitions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I have the ability to see people who have already passed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Their sixth sense is always with them. They can't turn it off, even if they wanted to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I can see spirits. They really terrify me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Are they for real or not?
You decide, next on LARRY KING LIVE.
There's a fascinating new show on the air, a kind of reality show. It's on the A&E! Network. And it's called "Psychic Kids: Children of the Paranormal". It focuses on the lives of kids with extraordinary abilities. As we said, it's on A&E!. You can think reality version of "The Sixth Sense".
With us throughout most of the program, John Edward, the famed psychic and medium. His Web site, by the way, is JohnEdward.net.
Char Margolis. She is an intuitive. Her latest book is "Discover Your Inner Wisdom."
Chip Coffey is the co-host of "Psychic Kids". He is also a psychic medium.
And Jillian Hernandez is the first psychic kid that we will meet tonight.
Before we get a little of Jillian's story, Chip, how did this show come about?
You host it.
CHIP COFFEY, CO-HOST, "PSYCHIC KIDS: CHILDREN OF THE PARANORMAL": We decided that there was a great need to help children who were suffering at the hands of people who didn't understand about their gifts and abilities as psychics. And we did a documentary through A&E! That aired on the Biography Channel. It did very well in the ratings. And we decided that we needed to do more. And after the documentary, we worked with 17 children, including Jillian, on a variety of shows, six one hour episodes that we did...
KING: Showing them and what they do?
COFFEY: Absolutely.
KING: All right.
COFFEY: Helping them and mentoring them.
KING: Now, Jillian is 12-years-old. She's been visited by spirits. Before we talk with her and get the thoughts of John and Char, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILLIAN HERNANDEZ, 12, SEES SPIRITS "EMILY, JACOB": Dead people speak to me. I see spirits most places that I go. Spirits ask me to give messages to their family and friends. Jacob is a little boy ghost who follows me everywhere. Jacob won't let me sleep at night. He wants to play.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My kids see spirits and, you know, I can't go and tell everybody about this so it's -- it's nerve-wracking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like everybody is against me on this and I need help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: OK, Jillian, you're 12.
When did this start?
HERNANDEZ: When I was like very, very little, like two and three that I remember, because we had just moved into a new house. And that's when I started seeing most of this.
KING: You see these spirits, right?
HERNANDEZ: Um-hmm.
KING: Are there any other things that you do? Do you do read minds?
Do you do other psychic things or is it just these two spirits?
HERNANDEZ: It's -- I see spirits and like occasionally I'll have a dream about a place and I'll end up going there. And occasionally I can like be able to tell what somebody is going to say, so like what they're about to say in a conversation.
KING: Doesn't that drive you nuts?
HERNANDEZ: Well...
KING: Do you like having these spirits?
HERNANDEZ: Not all the time. Sometimes it gets like really, really annoying. It's -- everybody says it would be so cool to be able to do that, but it's really actually very annoying.
KING: How often are they around?
HERNANDEZ: When I'm -- when I'm actually like having it on, like I -- it's like all the time. It's 24/7.
KING: Are they here now?
HERNANDEZ: Well, I don't know.
KING: You don't know?
HERNANDEZ: I don't have it on.
KING: It on.
You turn something on?
HERNANDEZ: Yes. Yes. I -- like I call it turning it on and off, because I'm able to like stop -- tell myself to stop seeing it.
KING: John, how do we know this isn't just some very interesting hallucination?
JOHN EDWARD, PSYCHIC MEDIUM: Well, I think that every -- every child has psychic ability and I think every individual has psychic ability.
KING: But every child also imagines imaginary -- my daughter had an imaginary friend for a year.
EDWARD: (INAUDIBLE) I had cousins who had imaginary friends, too, and named them and played with them and said, don't sit there, because you're going to knock...
KING: (INAUDIBLE).
EDWARD: ...you're going to sit on them. I think... KING: But they're not spirits.
EDWARD: Well, I think there's a difference between imagination and creativity and then a reality that can be validated. And when you're having an experience which is a very real experience, you're actually able to validate what that is. And I think -- I think all kids have this. And then usually around the age of 12, 13, 14, as their life shifts and changes, a filter will kick in. And if it doesn't, then it will be with them a lot longer.
KING: Char, what do you make of Jillian?
CHAR MARGOLIS, PSYCHIC INTUITIVE: Well, I can identify with her, because when I was 7-years-old, I -- a spirit was that foot of my bed and he was wearing rags and he had this pouch and he went like this and all these gold lights landed on me. But I didn't understand any of this. This work was kind of always in the closet.
And I told my parents -- our house had been broken into two weeks before that. I told my parents, the burglars were here again. My mom said that's just the sandman. So my -- my parents never said stop making stories up, stop trying to get attention.
However, I -- I was afraid to be alone at night because I thought that the spirit would come back.
KING: So you buy her story, in a sense...
CHAR: I -- yes, I...
KING: Not that she's lying.
CHAR: No, no. I believe that she is -- that she is seeing things. But I also believe that -- that this is a really complex kind of work to do. And it's a big responsibility for a child to take something like this on.
KING: I asked you if you were sorry you have it.
You said you can turn it on and off, right?
HERNANDEZ: Yes.
KING: Why not just leave it off?
HERNANDEZ: Well, because I feel that if God gave me this gift, he gave to it me for a reason. And if I'm supposed to use it, then he can tell me when I'm supposed to have it. Like, if I wake up one morning and I don't have it anymore, I know that I've served my purpose and God is done with me.
KING: All right, the purpose -- what do the spirits do for you?
HERNANDEZ: I mean I -- they don't really do anything for me besides I can learn lessons sometimes from some of them.
KING: They teach you?
HERNANDEZ: Yes.
KING: Do you see them as people on -- in human form?
HERNANDEZ: Not all the time. Sometimes they're like small, like little -- I call them orbs. You know, when you take a picture and there's like little dust. They're like -- they sort of look like that. And sometimes if I concentrate on that, I can see a person. But it's not all the time.
KING: What do you parents think of this?
HERNANDEZ: At first my dad didn't believe me. But he's had experiences himself with me and he -- he believes me now.
KING: Chip, what do you -- what's your read on this?
COFFEY: I think a loft children have this ability. I agree with John. I think that there are many children out there who have this ability that are very misunderstood. I think we're all born with this ability and we can choose to either embrace it and...
KING: We're all born with the ability to see spirits?
COFFEY: (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: That concludes that there are spirits.
COFFEY: I believe we are.
KING: You know there are spirits.
And spirits are, what, dead people? What are spirits?
COFFEY: I think spirits are people who have crossed over, people who are no longer -- an energy that no longer lives inside the body, that has exited the building and exists in another realm.
KING: John, why are they visiting Jillian and not Phil over there?
EDWARD: Well, Jilly, somehow she's been made aware. Maybe her upbringing, her parents or the conversations that were taking place. Or maybe she had an experience then she was able to say to someone repetitively and it got validated and somebody took an interest and said well, you know what, maybe we need to see, you know, is this child making this up, is she acting out for one reason or another. Oh, no. Well, she was able to validate something and therefore let's pay attention.
KING: Should she keep it, Char, if she -- if she could do away with it, should she?
MARGOLIS: Well, I feel that -- that it is a gift and it can help her prevent problems and attain goals in her life. But I've also found in this kind of work, experience of living life's lessons is the most important thing. When you're dealing with it, it's a very sensitive subject matter. And to have the wisdom to use this gift is really important. And I think it's going be -- it's not going be easy for a child such as her to be able to handle it in certain circumstances. I'm not saying that she won't be able to, but it's going be more difficult, because she still needs to be a kid. She still needs to...
KING: How do your friends handle this?
HERNANDEZ: Oh, I've lost so many friends about this. But I've also gained some friends. The friends that believe me, they support me on it because they know that if I was lying, they would know it. My friends know when I'm lying. And I'm not lying.
KING: Other friends, though, have turned you off?
HERNANDEZ: They've just completely stopped talking to me. You know, they say I'm the devil's daughter. They accuse me of satanic worshipping stuff.
KING: All right. Jillian will be coming back with us. We're devoting the whole show to this topic tonight.
Next, we'll meet an 8-year-old who sees her dead grandmother -- singer Nina Simone. She's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I can see spirits.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Dead people speak to me.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: These dark figures.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I see people that have just died and it terrifies me.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: And you get so scared.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Why are you here?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I wish they didn't reach me.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: The kids at school think I'm crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: It's not something I can talk about.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I just feel that (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: And they're experiencing the (INAUDIBLE)...
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: There's something (INAUDIBLE)?
(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: The program on A&E! Is "Psychic Kids: Children of the Paranormal," siring every Monday night.
And joining our panel now is Reanna Kelly, another of our psychic kids. And because she's so young, 8-years-old, her mother, Simone Kelly, joins us.
A new show is on the air already. Lots of interesting things about it. Eight-year-old Reanna has been seeing spirits for the last few years.
Here's her unbelievable story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REANNA KELLY, 8, SEES SPIRIT "BETH": My name is Reanna and I'm 8-years-old. I always thought like something was wrong with me because I can see spirits and they terrify me. I can see a spirit of a young girl who was killed in a car accident. The spirit is in our house.
SIMONE KELLY, REANNA'S MOTHER: This is so vivid and so real for her and so full of detail, that I don't need anymore convincing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Nina Simone was her grandmother. Nina was -- you were 3- years -old when Nina died?
R. KELLY: Yes.
KING: And so Nina was your mother, right, Reanna?
S. KELLY: Yes.
KING: When did you first sense that your daughter had something unusual going on?
S. KELLY: I realized it a couple of years ago when she started having sleeping issues. She wasn't able to sleep through the night. She'd wake up about three or four times a night. She said that she heard footsteps following her to bed and she would see things.
And when my mother died, it seemed to increase.
KING: Do you see your grandma?
R. KELLY: Yes, I do.
KING: And what -- how do you see her?
Where is she? What's she doing?
R. KELLY: Well, she's usually in -- like we have this room in our home and we call it the round room because it's round. And sometimes I see her there.
Or if not, I see her in like where my piano is. And sometimes she's sitting right where the piano is, because she loves to play it.
KING: Doesn't that -- and she was great, by the way.
Doesn't that scare you a little?
R. KELLY: Sometimes. And the most thing that scares me is because when I see her, her eyes are like really big, but she's smiling and it's kind of creepy.
KING: Creepy is a good word.
John, does that back up you're seeing dead people?
EDWARD: I actually don't see them in the way that she described them.
KING: But she sees them.
EDWARD: Yes. She's having a different experience. I -- I connect with their energy and then it -- it's played out for me and...
KING: Well, what do you make of Reanna?
EDWARD: I just hope that it's something that, you know, she is not afraid of. And I think that any child who's having any experience like this really, really needs to find the balance of, as Char said, be the child.
I started doing this when I was 15. And if there was one thing that I could do differently, go back, I wouldn't have started doing this when I was 15 because you...
KING: Too young?
EDWARD: It's way too young. You give -- you give up a certain aspect of being because of what people -- not yourself, but what other people put upon you, the expectation.
KING: Do you agree, Char?
MARGOLIS: Yes, I do, because kids are innocent. And kids need to learn to play and be with their friends. The other little girl already is losing friends. And the other thing about this work is I have found that in the spirit world, there's good and evil, just like on the Earth, there's good and bad people.
So she knows her grandma is a good spirit and her grandma will always take care of you and watch over you.
But when you start opening up to the spirit world, there are different neighborhoods over there.
KING: Simone, when this first started, did you buy it?
S. KELLY: Absolutely.
KING: Right away?
S. KELLY: Absolutely. I had my own personal experiences just prior to my mother's death. Her spirit visited me right before she died. And subsequently she spoke to me through a family member who is a devout Christian who thought she was possessed. So I already...
(CROSSTALK)
S. KELLY: Yes. So I had had a few experiences and our lives just flipped when mommy passed.
KING: You see -- Reanna, you see another spirit, too, right?
R. KELLY: Yes.
KING: Beth?
R. KELLY: Yes.
KING: Did you name her Beth?
R. KELLY: No. I once had a dream about her and she told me in the dream -- I don't know if mom knows about this, but she told me in the dream that her name was Beth.
KING: Oh, maybe mom doesn't know.
What do your friends think of this?
R. KELLY: Well, I told my best friend. And she thought it was really cool because she never knew that I could like see that -- I could see that stuff and that just made our friendship better.
KING: Do you like having this ability?
R. KELLY: Sometimes I do and sometimes it gets kind of hard. So I guess I do (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Chip, you have -- you're psychic, right?
COFFEY: I am.
KING: OK.
I knew the famous Peter Hurkos, who got late in his life to hate what he had.
COFFEY: Right.
KING: Do you ever hate it?
COFFEY: I don't ever hate it. I think -- I think it is a vast gift I've got and that these children have it, as well. And that's the point of the show, to try to nourish this gift and to mentor them.
KING: Simone, do you ever worry that this might lead other places that could be a problem?
S. KELLY: My biggest worry is that she will think of this as a curse and not as a gift. I've been trying to teach her that God doesn't make any mistakes and there's a reason why she has this.
KING: Reanna will be coming back with us.
Our next guest has no control over the spirits who come and go. We'll see if someone visits her during the show.
Don't go away
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: This is the place where I saw the demon-like figure.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: It was a black robe and a hood and it just floated across -- no legs, no arms. And when it turned, it had no face, no eyes, no features. But it was human-like.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: The feelings I got from it was not something that I get when I normally get when I see a ghost. Normally, it's like sadness or confusion. But this was anger, frustration, betrayal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: John Edward, Char Margolis and Chip Coffey remain.
And we now welcome to LARRY KING LIVE Alexa Lewis, a psychic kid. Alexa is 14 and says she sees shadows and figures from the spirit world.
Watch her story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXA LEWIS, 14, SEES FIGURES, SHADOWS: I have the ability to see people that have already passed. The first time I recognized that I could see spirits was around eight or nine. And it's not something that I can control. People call it a gift, but sometimes it can feel like a burden. There are scary things, like demon-type things and it scares you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alexa, she's had a lot of difficulties socially from the very beginning, you know, even in the first grade. She got along better with her teachers and adults than with children her own age.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Alexa, when did this start?
LEWIS: Well, I don't know. I was six or seven and my parents got divorced and I moved. And a lot of things went on. And then all of a sudden I was starting to see shadows. And the shadows evolved into figures and now I can see them a lot better than I used to.
KING: Do you think it had something to do with the divorce?
LEWIS: It might have because it was a really emotional time for me and it was really stressful.
KING: Now, this started, shadows turning into people.
Didn't that scare you?
LEWIS: Yes.
KING: Did you see a doctor?
LEWIS: No. It was -- well, like my mom was really into this kind of stuff. So it was more I would tell her and she'd believe me a lot more. And it was easier to tell my mom than to go to tell some doctor and then be told I'm crazy.
KING: What do you see now?
LEWIS: Right now nothing.
KING: No. But generally in life, what might -- what did you see yesterday?
What's the last thing you saw?
LEWIS: I was at home and I woke up and there was a man sitting on my bed, like just crisscross applesauce. I'm sorry. And I just told him like that I was trying to sleep, because I had to leave early in the morning tomorrow. He just got up and left.
KING: Was he like a man, a man, or a ghost-looking man?
LEWIS: Like a ghost looking man. You know, like not the sheet thing, but he was just more transparent than I would be looking at you right now.
KING: And can that wake -- whack you out?
LEWIS: Yes. It was really hard adjusting.
KING: Do you wish you didn't have this?
LEWIS: Not really. It was more that sometimes it would scare me. But I knew that it was just something you need to get used to, because it's a gift and I should be proud to have it.
KING: Do you want it to stay?
LEWIS: Yes.
KING: What's your read on this, John? EDWARD: Well, I'm listening to them all and they're all saying like one word -- gift, gift, gift. And I think that I would love -- just personally, I've been doing this for 23 years and I did start when I was this young. I would love to hear them rephrase it as not a gift, but an ability and why -- to go back to the question of why do they have it and what are they going to do with it and then just try to find that balance so that the fear factor of it can be blended into the reality of what it is.
It's kind of like once you know something, you can't go back and say do you wish you didn't have it, because it's like saying well, I have it, so now how do you not -- not use it?
KING: Do you call it an ability, Char?
MARGOLIS: Yes. It's an ability that we all have. It's like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger it gets.
The thing that sits with me the strongest is that thoughts have power, thoughts create reality. And I believe that prayer is really important. And it doesn't matter who you're praying to Allah or Christ or God or whoever it is, to keep that white light of protection around you. Because when you are going into this -- these realms of energy -- and there's all the different kinds of energy -- you want to make sure that only the good and the highest form of energy, of goodness, is around.
And my sister is a doctor of psychology. And she works with kids a lot. And she helps kids understand this. Her name is Dr. Alicia Tysdale (ph).
And she -- she has found that some of these kids need -- I'm not saying that you do -- but they're -- you also need the balance of psychological help so that you live a balanced life. Balance is more important than anything in life.
KING: Can you sometimes read minds?
LEWIS: Not really me. I was on this show with another girl and Haley (ph) and we did like this experiment. We'd like hold hands and think of a number like we saw in the first (INAUDIBLE) of "Psychic Kids." And we were able to do that. But besides that, it's...
KING: What's the purpose of the show, Chip?
COFFEY: To educate children, to mentor them and teach them that they are not weird or not different, that what they are experiencing is very valid.
KING: Do you know if there are a lot of kids who have this?
EDWARD: I think that there are a lot of kids that do. Since the show premiered on the Biography Channel or the documentary, we've had thousands of e-mails from parents who claim that their children are having psychic experiences and seeing dead people.
KING: What do you -- how do your friends react, Alexa?
LEWIS: Well, I at first told my friend Jesse (ph) when I was filming the show, because he was like what are you doing, what are you doing?
And he ended up like researching it and asking me questions about it. And finally one night at the park they were doing some stuff and I was like getting surrounded by different spirits and it was really freaking me out. So I ended up having to tell them that I'm psychic, what you're doing is freaking me out and you need to stop.
KING: Evil spirits drove you out of your house?
LEWIS: Yes.
KING: What did they do with you?
LEWIS: One time like I had like a disembodied hand screeched on my window or...
KING: Now, that's a lot of laughs.
LEWIS: Yes. Or one time I have ad -- I saw the demonic figure like float from my kitchen and come and look at me. And it freaked me out that I wouldn't go in the house for like an hour-and-a-half, until my mom came home.
KING: I'd have moved.
LEWIS: Yes, I did move.
KING: Yes. Good thinking.
LEWIS: Thanks.
KING: All of our psychic kids will be here right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was clinically dead for 47 minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The spirits ask me to give messages to their families.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm experiencing scary stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was yelling at me, you need to help me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katherine, we want to speak be you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She showed me a gravestone with my name on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No fear, no doubts. No fear, no doubts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't want to be here anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't run, don't hide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The kids have assembled. They are Jillian Hernandez, Reanna Kelly, Simone Kelly, Reanna's mother, Alexa Lewis, and Dr. Lisa Miller joins us, psychotherapist, professor of psychology at Columbia University Teacher's College, and co-host of "Psychic Kids, Children of the Paranormal."
What is a professor of psychology at Columbia University doing on a psychic show?
DR. LISA MILLER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Larry, for ten years I've researched spirituality in children and adolescents, trying to help develop treatments, psychotherapy treatments that embrace spiritual experience in kids. When I got through Columbia University Teacher's College a call to come work with these beautiful children and share in their experiences --
KING: Work with them that something is wrong, or believing that they're seeing what they're seeing?
MILLER: It's such an important question, Larry. These children who are psychic are very, very different from children who are psychotic. Sadly, a psychotic child is faced with many challenges, difficulties with their emotions, difficulty connecting. These are healthy, beautiful, vibrant children who have had very powerful, discreet experiences.
KING: You believe they see what they see?
MILLER: These children have experiences which are so different from those which we would call psychotic. They are experiences which are guiding and informing of their own journey in life. And I think it's our job to listen to them and support them in really integrating their experience into their on going growth and development.
KING: You're not calling it a disease or schizophrenia or a problem?
MILLER: Absolutely, you understand.
KING: Jillian, do you ever think you have a problem?
HERNANDEZ: A long time ago, I used to think there was something wrong with me and that I was different from everybody else. Now I just know that it's something that not a lot of people have. It's something that's different. But it's a good thing not a bad thing. KING: What is it like to be the mother of a gifted, we'll call it, gifted or skilled child?
S. KELLY: I think it's like walking on a tight rope at times. They have needs that change from day the day and situation to situation. I mean the bogeyman when it comes through our imagination, much less when they walk around the corner and see something that you can't see. And you have to deal with their immediate reaction and calm them, and make sure that you, yourself, don't get upset.
MILLER: I think a deep spirited loving mother like Simone is quite a gift, because Simone, from the very beginning, had a respect for Reanna's direct experience.
KING: As opposed to parent who would say, you're nuts.
MILLER: Absolutely. Just to be completely welcomed into your mother's arms and having your own experience is something not always privy for psychic children.
KING: Alexa, do you ever think something is wrong?
LEWIS: Sometimes, like when something scary happens and I can't tell my friends anything, because they would think I'm crazy. It makes you wonder, why am seeing this and no one else is? Is it because I'm crazy? Then you realize it's because it's an ability, and it's something good. So it's not so much a bad thing anymore.
MILLER: As part of our A&E show, we went on retreats together, these beautiful children, their mothers, Chip and I, and we shared a process of listening to your experiences and helping to support you in using your experiences along your own path. One of the most crucial ingredients for the children, and I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this, was meeting each other.
KING: What was that like, Jillian, to meet fellow people having the same thing?
HERNANDEZ: I thought it was amazing to be able to say, I'm not the only one with this. There's other people out there just like me. And I'm able to talk about it with people and they'll understand what I'm going through. It was awesome.
KING: What was it like for you, Reanna?
R. KELLY: It was cool and it was kind of weird at the same time. And ever since I have known that I had this gift, I have always wanted to meet children like me. Like Jillian said, I'm not alone.
S. KELLY: That's how we got on the show. She saw the A&E show and she said, mommy, please, I want to meet other kids like myself.
KING: How are you treated in school?
LEWIS: I went to a pretty harsh school. It was treated as you're with the devil or you're the devil. You're in line with devil or the devil's daughter.
KING: And you stayed in school?
LEWIS: I didn't tell anyone. So it was kind of like people would talk about it, but they wouldn't know that they are talking about me. I wouldn't let anyone know.
KING: Now you go on television and everyone knows?
LEWIS: Now, it's like hey. You know, I'm not from the devil.
MILLER: I think you're really moving on a crucial experience for these children, which they're sometimes invalidated. At other times, some of them are, frankly, discriminated against. We've met children who are pulled out of their class rooms and isolated from other children they shared a very common experience, which is feeling contacted by the spirit of the grandparent. Being contacted by our grandparents is something welcomed around the world, in India, China, Mexico. The notion that your ancestors would be in touch with you and you would do things for them is not only welcomed, it's crucial.
In this country, it's heard without a system of meaning underneath it. And sometimes the child takes the fall.
KING: Jillian, Reanna and Alexa, thank you so much. We love forward to watching all these shows. Simone, thanks for accompanying your beautiful daughter. Dr. Miller will remain with us and we'll have our two psychics come back and answer some questions right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL SHERMER, EDITOR, "SKEPTIC MAGAZINE": These children are just extremely imaginative kids who are just having the normal fantasies and stories in their heads that so many of us had when we were kids. I think the show, the series has more to do with what adults want to make out of these stories than what the kids are making out of them. Having psychics proclaim the kids to be psychics is meaningless, because the psychics themselves have never been proven to be psychic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: John Edward returns. He'll be live at the Flamingo in Las Vegas July 11. And he's on HSN, the Home Shopping Network, July 25th. His Web site it JohnEdward.net. Char Margolis' latest book is "Discover Your Inner Wisdom." And Dr. Lisa Miller is the psychotherapist, professor of psychology at Columbia University Teacher's College.
I know you're part of the show, do you think it's wise for kids with this to go on television?
MILLER: Larry, we were contacted by hundreds of children asking to participate in this show, because they really wanted help. And they wanted to share their stories by way of being teachers for other kids.
KING: You think it was all right?
MILLER: I think this was something the children themselves wanted very much to do. On the ground, working with them, we saw them delighted to be part of this, and really, in just a few days, transforming quite a bit.
KING: Do you think it is all right, John?
EDWARD: I think it's important for if the child's having an experience -- I think it's great they have someone like the doctor on show because she can evaluate if there isn't something psychic that's going on. I think a good portion of children that are having experiences, nine out of them are probably going to be having a very visceral, energetic reaction to the world they're living in.
KING: So it's OK?
EDWARD: I think it's fine. I think it's also good to have her there, so that she can recognize if there isn't something that's psychic that might need medical attention.
KING: Char?
MARGOLIS: Animals have instinct. People have intuition. It is a sixth sense. As John said before, it's not a gift. It's a sixth sense. Years from now, people will go, oh, yes, I have five senses and I have a sixth sense. It's my intuition.
KING: Dr. Miller, you're with us in this segment. Then John and Char will be with us in the last two segments. They're going to do some readings. People will be on the phone. Do you believe that? Do you believe John can talk to dead people? Do you believe Char can tell people what their brother Nelson is doing tomorrow?
MILLER: Absolutely, and I believe very deeply in Char's statement, that the question of is this real or not, as a question, will not exist in 50 or 100 years. We'll understand this level of perception.
MARGOLIS: The reason I wrote my book, "Discover Your Inner Wisdom," is about using logic, common sense and intuition to make choices, because the future changes all the time because else's choice or decision.
KING: You can't prove this, so why do you believe it as a professor?
MILLER: It's a wonderful question. Right now, there's a burgeoning area of research looking that contribution of our consciousness to the formation of matter. So for instance, at Princeton, there's a lab that's published dozens of articles looking at how our intention affects the generation of so called random numbers. We can very systematically and empirically show that our mind is part of the fabric of the universe.
And physics is really leading the way. If we can borrow some of the models from physics, I think we will have much broader models of psychology and --
KING: Let's get an example of what they might do.
We have a call from Swamscott, Massachusetts. Hello.
CALLER: Good evening, Larry and John. My question to John is, is giving readings physically draining to you?
EDWARD: Absolutely. You're being bombarded by the energy of the person that's coming through from the other side, as well as immersing yourself into the energy of the person you're reading. It can be very, very draining.
KING: Brandon, Florida, hello.
CALLER: Hey John. This is Vicki from Florida. Do you know if my parents are together?
EDWARD: I have no idea if your parents were together. If they had crossed over, they would have to be coming through to me first. I would have to make the connection and see if they were going validate that. I believe that our family and friends who have crossed over are together, and the way our families get together in this world, they are part of that same fabric of consciousness on the side as well.
KING: You believe there is an after life.
EDWARD: I know there is an after life.
KING: You know this.
EDWARD: I know after 20 years of doing this that there's an after life.
KING: In what form?
EDWARD: I always equate it to the Internet. I say, where's the Internet. It's not place that you can go to as a physical body, but it's only existence in a destination. It's a place of energy. It's a place of thoughts and growth.
KING: Isn't he appealing, doctor, to the desire of wanting there to be an after life?
MILLER: I think the notion that energy and matter are inextricably intertwined is really supported by contemporary physics. For instance, we now have the notion in physics of superimposition, that one dot of light can be in more than one place at a time. To me, that sounds analogous, if not explanatory, of experiences such as my grandmother passed at 2:10, my aunt, my uncle and my mother all felt her at 2:10 am.
MARGOLIS: And the clock stopped at the same time, which happens a lot.
KING: OK, I got to take a break. Doctor, thank you. We'll be calling on your again. Doctor is part of the program. We'll have readings with John Edward and Char Margolis when LARRY KING LIVE returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: I mentioned that John Edward will be at the Flamingo in Las Vegas on July 11th, it's July 12th. He'll be in the Flamingo in Las Vegas.
We have an e-mail from Samantha in Kingsville, Texas: "I lost my grandfather a year ago to cancer. My relationship with him grew very distant because I couldn't bear to see him in the condition he was in. Do you think he understands why I acted this way?"
EDWARD: I think that is a very realistic thing that a lot of people have, they can't deal with death. I think one of the most important things that Char and I try to do, and people that are doing this work, is try to raise people's awareness levels about the communications we can have with someone before they pass. I would hope that she would be able to find a way to maybe open herself up to the potential that her grandfather is still around her, and that she can, in her own way, communicate with him her expression of --
KING: Whenever we do shows and you communicate, how come none of the dead people are ever angry? I never had one say, I didn't like you before and I still don't like you.
MARGOLIS: They do.
EDWARD: The greatest thing is you talk about a show like this, whether it be live on the radio or live on television, you have a very minute amount of time to be able to make a connection with that person. It's like taking a film negative, holding it up to the light and trying to make out what all the details of that photo are. Maybe one thing sticks out. During the course of a reading, those things do come true. People come through and they talk about what their experience was like, how their relationship was.
Not all the happy, positive things are addressed. Sometimes it's the real life issues of alcoholism or abuse, things that were not dealt with while the person was still here, that having a session or reading can help to assuage some of that.
KING: Char, do you agree?
MARGOLIS: I completely agree with John.
KING: You don't believe that some people are dead and still angry at the people they leave behind?
MARGOLIS: I think there are still psychological problems and lack of closure with people. A lot of what goes on in my readings and John's readings are forgiveness and understanding, so the spirit can move on as well. The spirit needs to feel closure as well.
KING: E-mail from Marie in Truro, Nova Scotia: "What are your thoughts on reincarnation? Do you believe that when a person passes, are they reborn? If so, how many lives do people have?"
EDWARD: I am a total believer of reincarnation and the process that we come back here. I think this is the classroom of life. I always say this, that's not my specialty and I'm a big advocate that if anybody wants to learn more about reincarnation, they should read anything by Dr. Brian Weiss. He is one of the foremost researchers and writers about the subject matter, and he does it in a way where people really get what --
KING: I don't understand, if you're communicating with dead people and dead people come back as new people, how are you still talking to them as dead people, if they're somewhere else's --
EDWARD: That's putting an Earthly timeline on it. That's putting an Earthly timeline and saying, as soon as somebody crosses over, they're going to come right back here again. We don't know how long it might take for a soul to choose to reincarnate, to come back to the physical world, to come back to the classroom.
MARGOLIS: I also feel that a part of us who -- we all have our own individual thumb print. A part of us always stays in the soul, in the spirit world. So they recycle us and bring a new person out so we can learn those lessons here that we didn't learn in those other lifetimes. So there's a part of Larry King that will always be in the spirit world, one day, not now.
KING: Do you ever doubt what you have?
EDWARD: You know, I think I had one moment ever where I questioned it and it was during a group reading that I was doing, where I made a connection with the woman's mother and the woman came through so beautifully clear. The only thing that she didn't come through with was how she passed and when she passed. And I said to the girl, the only thing your mom didn't come with is how she passed and when she passed. She started crying and said, that's because she didn't. In that one moment, I was like what? Then she told me that her mom was in a coma and she was going to be brain dead and she was being kept alive. To me that was the biggest validation that the soul exists outside of the physical body.
KING: More with Char Margolis and John Edward when LARRY KING LIVE returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Take another call in our remaining moments. Old bridge, New Jersey. Hello.
CALLER: Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call.
KING: Sure. CALLER: I had a second trimester miscarriage recently and it's my second miscarriage. And I was just wondering what the future might hold for me in terms of fertility and bearing a child.
EDWARD: I don't know if you've had three pregnancies already or if you already have three children, but they're showing me the number three, which to me would indicate there has either be three pregnancies, there will be a third, or there will be three children, but that's what is being shown.
CALLER: I have two living children and I then had the miscarriage, and then just the recent second trimester.
KING: Do you think she'll have a third child?
EDWARD: I think there will be a third. I know this might sound strange, but I see you getting a dog or I see a pet. It's almost making me feel like there's an opportunity for a new addition to your family with fur.
CALLER: I have one that's like a child.
EDWARD: I feel like there's something new that comes up around that as well. You have a lot of people actually draining on your energy. That's the feeling I have. You're giving out a lot of your time.
CALLER: Yes.
KING: Thank you. E-mail from Shawn in West Hill, California for Char: "Do you ever do private readings for the public anymore?"
MARGOLIS: I do. Over the telephone, I do. You know, I still have my shows in the Netherlands, so I'm busy taping.
KING: You're still doing that?
MARGOLIS: Yes, we're going to my tenth season.
KING: Do you see us coming out of the recession soon?
MARGOLIS: Not soon.
KING: Not soon. E-mail from Linda in St. Peters, Missouri; "Do I have anyone around me or with me all the time and who? How can I contact them?" John?
EDWARD: I believe that we all have energies around us. I call those spirit guides. We have a master guide that's with us from the day we're born to the day we pass. I do think we have our friends and relatives who connect and let us know they're around. I think meditation and prayer is the most important thing. I'm a big advocate, go to a local bookstore, let the book pick you. Learn about what to call the subject matter.
KING: Who's around you? EDWARD: Who is around me? I have a lot of people around me.
KING: Do you talk to dead people from your past?
EDWARD: It's so funny. People think that when you're a medium, you constantly talk to your family, like the way we communicate. It's so not the way it happens for me. I will acknowledge the fact that they're there, but I'm a big advocate, we're living here. We're here for a reason. We're hear to learn lessons. It's not to project our energy to the other side and live for them. It's to live for us here.
KING: Don't you think you're a little nuts, Char, with what you have?
MARGOLIS: No, because I feel it's used to prevent problems. But when a spirit of -- like my family comes to visit me, there will be a sign. It's see, I'll see a license plate with my mother's name or my dad's name on it. I'll be like, OK, what do you want now.
EDWARD: It's funny. If you had cameras watching us have dinner or lunch, that's when it usually happens. We'll have a conversation and she'll look over and say, you have a friend with a big S, like a Sheila or Shelly who is here. She just wants to say hi. I'll be like, I do have a friend who passed, who is actually a medium, one of our first meetings. She would have no idea, being that she lives in California and I live in New York.
KING: How do you explain it when you're wrong?
EDWARD: That you're wrong. You misinterpret. People in every profession have the ability to say that they're wrong. I think the most important gift I was ever given was by the only person on the planet who can actually say she was my teacher, a woman by the name of Sandy Anastasia (ph), and she said, don't forget, you can be wrong.
KING: We've run out of time. "Discover Your Inner Wisdom" is Char Margolis' new book. John Edward you can get him on HSM, Home Shopping, on July 25th, and in Vegas at the Flamingo.
MARGOLIS: And watch his We show.
KING: And he's on the air on We. Go to CNN's number one show page, CNN.com/LarryKing, check out our video highlights, our transcripts, text alerts, and about last night. Take our daily quick vote, too.
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