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CNN Larry King Live
Michael Jackson Laid to Rest
Aired September 03, 2009 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, moments from now, Michael Jackson will be finally laid to rest in a million dollar farewell. A family says good-bye to a beloved brother, son and father -- gone before his time. The pop star's friends, on their way to the service, stop by here first to honor their dearly missed Michael and then the funeral at Forest Lawn. We're going to take you there live as it happens.
We'll salute the late great Michael Jackson next in this special edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
By the way, as part of tonight's coverage, we'll be playing for you tributes to Michael Jackson from a variety of celebrity guests that we had on right around the time of his death.
Our special guest in the opening segments here in Los Angeles, Leonard Rowe, the concert promoter, a long time friend of the Jackson family. He will be attending the burial and will be a featured speaker tonight.
Also with us is Steve Manning, Tito Jackson's manager, Michael's former publicist. He'll also be attending the internment.
But right now, let's go to Forest Lawn Cemetery in Glendale.
Standing by are our correspondents, Jim Moret and Ted Rowlands.
We'll start with Ted.
Set the scene -- Ted.
What's happening?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, not much yet. The service is expected to start sharply at 7:00, so within the hour, Larry. We haven't seen anybody really arrive as of yet. We've seen security go in and out.
And there are -- as you might imagine -- a lot of media. About 60 different outlets from around the world that are here to get what they can in terms of seeing people coming and going. There's a lot of security here, as well. The service itself will take place in a mausoleum just over the hill from where we are here at this cemetery here. And it is expected to be very private.
And we -- what the feeling we're getting, the people that we understand are coming -- Stevie Wonder, family members, people that were close to Michael Jackson throughout his life and the people that the family really thought that Michael Jackson would want to be here at this moment.
KING: Yes.
And Jim Moret, Gladys Knight is going to perform. And I know Leonard Rowe, he's here with us. He's going to speak.
Do you know any of the other speakers?
JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION" CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: They -- the family has been very tight-lipped about this and as well as they should. This is a private ceremony as evidenced by the fact that all of us in the media have been kept outside. The area around this cemetery for several square blocks has been cordoned off so no fans can come close.
Everyone's been on great behavior, too. No one has tried to break through the barricades. The fans have been very well behaved. As a matter of fact, I just spoke with a member of the police force here, who said that of the $150,000 set aside for security, they may actually give back $30,000 because everything has run so smoothly.
But as best we know...
KING: Yes, all right...
MORET: ...it's going to be an outside service. There are about 200 -- 200 seats outside and it shouldn't take long. It's probably going to be under an hour. And that's pretty much all we know -- Larry.
KING: Thanks, Jim and Ted.
We'll be checking back with you at the bottom of the hour, when we go live there for the -- for the rest of the time leading up to the service.
Leonard Rowe and Steve Manning are with us. They'll both attend. Leonard will speak.
What's your -- what do you remember most about -- about Michael, Leonard?
LEONARD ROWE, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND: What I remember most, Larry, is his dedication to the industry -- to the music industry and how hard of a worker he was. I have some members -- memories from being on the road with him and (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: You did the Off The Wall, right?
ROWE: I did the Off The Wall Tour, yes. And...
KING: And you played a lot of cities?
ROWE: A lot of them. About 52, I think it was.
KING: How did he handle all that?
ROWE: Well, you know, Larry, we couldn't handle them all consistently. So what we did was, after about the first -- I think it was about the first 21, 22 shows, I had to pull it down for about two- and-a-half weeks because he caught an infection in his throat that spread to his ear. And I had to let him come home and rest for about two-and-a-half weeks. And then we was able to finish.
KING: Did he always give his all, every performance?
ROWE: Every performance. You know, we was in Alabama one night. And this is when he had got the infection. And he was coming out of the dressing room and I was hoping we could make it because we had a break coming up before we could go to Hawaii.
So when he was coming out of the dressing room, I said, Mike, don't exert yourself so much and cut down on all the dancing and the spinning. And he looked at me with them humble eyes and said, I can't do the people that way, Rowe. I've got to give them all I got. And I remember that so vividly.
KING: Steve, what do you remember the most?
By the way, we just learned Elizabeth Taylor will attend the interment. Elizabeth Taylor -- Stevie Wonder, as reported earlier, will be there. But Elizabeth Taylor definitely will be there.
What do you remember the most, Steve?
STEVE MANNING, TITO JACKSON'S MANAGER: Well, Larry, I have too many fond memories of Michael. He was -- personally, he was a very kind soul, a humble guy, very generous in spirit, who was a caring, loving -- a true person who loves loyalty. And he was just a very humble, kind guy. For all his fame and success, he was very, very kind and very (INAUDIBLE).
KING: He was always hands-on, wasn't he?
MANNING: Yes, he was.
KING: Did he...
MANNING: And, also, Leonard mentioned about the shows. He was a perfectionist.
KING: Yes.
MANNING: He was a perfectionist. Everything had to be perfect. I used to tell him all the time, you know, Michael, you want the biggest, the best, the greatest all the time. And he'd say yes, I do, Steve.
KING: Did he want to know everything about how the publicity was going? MANNING: Oh, also. Yes. Yes.
ROWE: Everything.
MANNING: He did, also.
ROWE: (INAUDIBLE).
MANNING: I remember years ago when he wanted the cover of "People" magazine years ago, when I was at CBS Records working for him. He always wanted the cover of "People" magazine and the tabloids. And then (INAUDIBLE) he was blessed with having that great success there. And it came to devour him and turn against him. That's why that song he did, "Leave Me Alone."
ROWE: Yes.
KING: What -- when you -- talk about tonight, Leonard.
ROWE: I beg your pardon?
KING: What are you going to say at the funeral?
ROWE: Well, you know, I'm going to talk about, probably, some personal things that Michael and I talked about. He used to -- you know, I knew this guy was above his years by the things he used to say to me in private. And...
KING: Like?
Give me one example.
ROWE: Well, let me give you one. He was talking to me one day and he asked me about Barry Gordy at Motown. He said, well, what you think about Barry Gordy?
I said, I think he's a great businessman.
He said, I do, too.
He said, when we left Motown, he said, I really didn't want to leave Motown. I wanted stay with my brother Jermaine. He said, but I knew I couldn't stay because my family couldn't make it without me, so I had to go.
KING: Huh.
ROWE: And I thought it was something for a guy that young to know he carries that much weight.
KING: And you manage -- you managed Tito.
MANNING: Yes, I do. (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: What is Tito's relationship with him? MANNING: Well, that was Michael -- one of his closest brothers and they were very, very close. Very, very close, him and Tito there. (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: Has Tito taken this badly?
MANNING: They all have taken it bad. I mean, they still can't believe this. It's like a shock. It's like unbelievable. I mean, it's two months later. No one can believe this is really true.
KING: Do you know if Tito is speaking tonight?
MANNING: I think all the brothers are going to be speaking. They're -- they're still very upset. (INAUDIBLE).
KING: They're going to sing, too, I understand?
MANNING: Yes, they are. Yes, they are, yes -- a special tribute. It was very private and secret but, you know, their farewell to their brother.
KING: Who's putting this all together?
MANNING: The whole family. Everybody is involved (INAUDIBLE)...
ROWE: (INAUDIBLE) has spearheaded it.
MANNING: Yes, right. Yes.
ROWE: Brandon Jackson.
MANNING: Yes.
ROWE: He's doing a great job.
MANNING: Yes.
KING: He's the man, huh?
ROWE: Brandon's the man.
MANNING: Yes, he is. And, you know, Leonard...
ROWE: He's a (INAUDIBLE) guy.
MANNING: Speaking about what Leonard said, I remember when the day they left Motown and I was -- I happened to be at the house compound in L.A. And he said, you know, Steve, it's like pharaoh. I feel like pharaoh going across the Red Sea going to Columbia Records, to Epic. It was like uncharted waters for him. He said this to me. It was like he was so afraid what was going to happen.
But what happened?
He had Off The Wall and also Thriller, you know?
KING: When we come back, I'm going to show you the invitation to Michael Jackson's funeral and I'll even read something from it.
Back with Leonard Rowe and Steve Manning after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're going to show you something you may not have seen. This is the program -- it's beautifully done -- for tonight's funeral service. The front page says: "If you enter the world knowing you are loved and leave the world knowing the same, then everything that happens in between can be dealt with. Michael Jackson, dancing the dream."
There's the picture on the front page of the program -- a beautiful picture of Michael.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KING: And then this inside, the writings. On the left hand page: "We loved him. We laughed with him. We sang with him. We danced with him. But on this day, we celebrate him. Please join us as we lay our beloved son, cherished brother, devoted father, Michael Jackson, to his final resting place."
And then written inside the program, from Michael Jackson's "Will You Be There?": "In our darkest hour, in my deepest despair, will you still care, will you be there? If my trials and my tribulations, through our doubts and frustrations, in my violence and my turbulence, through my fear and my confessions, in my anguish and my pain, through my joy and my sorrow, in the promise of another tomorrow, I'll never let you part, for you're always in my heart. Michael Jackson's "Will You Be There?"
Was he that deep, Jim?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I'm...
KING: I mean, I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Larry...
KING: Leonard, was he that deep?
ROWE: He was very deep, Larry.
MANNING: Yes. Yes.
ROWE: You know, he was above his years. And he was -- when I met him, he was about 21, 22 years old, but he was way beyond that in wisdom and knowledge.
MANNING: Absolutely.
ROWE: And that's what used to shock me. You know, when you -- when Michael, not being close to a lot of people, when he'd get close to you now, he would talk you to death.
MANNING: Yes. Your phone...
KING: But what -- he was very shy.
MANNING: Yes, he was a very shy guy. Yes.
ROWE: But when he'd get close to you, he would talk -- call you at 3:00 in the morning, 2:00 in the morning. So just get ready, because he don't have that many people. And so when he instilled that trust in you, he'd talk to you a lot.
KING: Are you going to write a book about him?
MANNING: Yes, I am, Larry. Yes.
KING: What angle?
MANNING: Well, the people don't know him. I mean they've never -- the real Michael Jackson -- the Michael Jackson nobody knows. He was very misunderstood. He felt that people didn't understand him. I've known him for 40 years.
KING: What was his biggest weakness?
MANNING: Being kind, being trusting to you...
KING: Too kind?
MANNING: Yes. Absolutely, yes. And I'll tell you something, he also often wondered, he just had a great faith. That song there was influenced by Mahalia Jackson (ph), the late Robert Johnson and Bob Johnson -- I mean, the Johnson publication people...
KING: "Ebony" magazine?
MANNING: Yes -- turned him on to Mary Jackson. And that was a great influence of him in Chicago there.
KING: So he was -- was he -- was he an easy touch?
MANNING: Yes, he was. Yes. He trusted people. But he also believed in great loyalty. A lot of people betrayed him. He was hurt by Hollywood, also.
ROWE: Yes.
MANNING: The big crowd of people in Hollywood betrayed him.
ROWE: He was.
MANNING: They turned -- they turned their backs on him. That hurt him deeply.
ROWE: Very much so.
KING: Huh.
ROWE: It hurt him, very much so.
MANNING: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
ROWE: I mean I had a conversation with him...
KING: What, in a movie deal or...
ROWE: ...about that.
MANNING: No. The power -- the powerful people in Hollywood...
ROWE: Yes.
MANNING: ...I'm not going to name -- turned their backs, shunned him.
ROWE: Yes, they did.
KING: Really?
ROWE: Yes.
MANNING: They embraced him one time and then absolutely turned their back upon him.
KING: You mean when he got into trouble?
MANNING: Yes. He -- they all ran -- they all fleed from him like a -- like a disease.
KING: That changed him a lot, didn't it, Leonard?
ROWE: A lot. I met him in Florida. He asked me to fly to Florida in '07 to talk with him. So I flew down to Florida that night and his brother picked me up at the airport. And Michael and I sat up until about 3:00 -- sat up until about 3:00 in the morning. And he spoke about how Hollywood had mistreated him.
MANNING: Yes.
ROWE: And I could see and hear the hurt in his voice about that situation. And I told him, you've got to move past it. I said, Mike, we're going to do like we used to do and we're going to jump out on the road and we're going to show them.
KING: Well, he is going to have a beautiful resting place and I know you guys are heading there.
Thanks, Leonard.
ROWE: Thank you so much for having us.
MANNING: It's a pleasure, Larry, always.
KING: Thank you, Steve.
MANNING: Thank you, Larry.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Leonard Rowe and Steve Manning.
Michael Jackson's friends, Miko Brando and Dave Dave, will be here in 60 seconds.
And still ahead, we're going to take you back to Forest Lawn Cemetery, too.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM JULY 2, 2009)
JERMAINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON'S BROTHER: If you want to make the world a better place, you have to look at yourself and make a change. When you listen to the content of songs, the melodies, the messages, the videos, the concerts, it's -- that's who he was. That's who he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That was when we were up at Neverland with Jermaine Jackson. What an incredible night that was.
Joining us now here in Los Angeles, Miko Brando, who was with us almost every night after this untimely passing, long time Michael Jackson friend, attending the funeral.
And Dave Dave -- yes, that's his name, Dave Dave. He was David Rothenberg. He was set on fire in 1983. He suffered, as you can see, terrible scars. Michael Jackson befriended him and paid for a lot of his surgeries. Dave Dave is also attending the burial.
Why Dave Dave?
DAVE DAVE, MICHAEL JACKSON'S LONGTIME FRIEND: Well, to liberate myself from the confines of my father's criminality.
KING: He caused the fire?
DAVE-DAVE: Yes. He -- he is a criminal and he caused all this. To -- to free myself of his name and his legacy, I decided to become my own person through changing my name.
KING: We'll find out how Michael helped you.
But, Miko, is that a typical story of Michael, helping people like this?
MIKO BRANDO, MICHAEL JACKSON'S LONGTIME FRIEND: Absolutely. When he -- when he'd hear about stories of people in need, who needed help, or when we'd watch the news together, he'd -- he'd reach out to them, send them a basket, send them a, you know, a note -- get well or whatever the incident would be. And he'd always reach out to people and help people. Even driving around town, he'd stop and help people.
KING: How did he find out about you, Dave?
DAVE-DAVE: He heard about me and he had contacted me and wanted to meet me.
KING: How old were you at the time?
DAVE-DAVE: I was about seven years old at the time.
KING: And were you in the hospital?
DAVE-DAVE: I was not in the hospital at the time. I was -- I was in interim, back and forth from surgery.
KING: And what did he do for you?
DAVE-DAVE: Well, basically he befriended me. He -- he took me in to his life, which is very rare for Michael to do. But he opened up his arms to me and accepted me as a very good friend of his. And throughout the years, he never let me go.
KING: I believe that's the hearse carrying the body into Forest Lawn. He will be interred -- it looks like a beautiful place they have for him, Miko.
BRANDO: It's very nice. He has a very nice compound.
KING: Yes. We're going to be showing you close-ups of that. That is Forest Lawn.
Were you surprised, Dave, to hear from him when you were seven?
DAVE-DAVE: Oh, it -- it's a very interesting story, Larry. It was kind -- the visit to his Encino house was very impromptu. And it was kept a secret by my mother. And I had always been kind of an admirer of his, not a fan per se, but I always loved his music.
And my mother surprised me one day and brought me up to Neverland. And I entered an arcade and there were all these Paul McCartney records, all of this, "The Girl is Mine" and, you know, this and that. And I remember sitting down. And at the time, my -- my favorite video games -- my favorite video game was Pole Position. And I was playing Pole Position. And I -- I felt a little tap on my shoulder. And I turned around and there was Michael. And...
KING: Hold it right there.
DAVE-DAVE: And you know what, Larry?
KING: What?
DAVE-DAVE: At that moment, we -- we embraced and that embrace never ended throughout our whole entire friendship.
KING: Miko, how is the family doing?
BRANDO: Good.
KING: We've seen Jermaine, but...
BRANDO: Yes.
KING: And I saw La Toya the other night.
BRANDO: Yes. They're ready for the -- for tonight and yes.
KING: Are you ready for tonight?
I saw your wife. I don't think she's ready for tonight.
BRANDO: No, I don't think I'm -- no. It's -- I'm -- I can't. Yes. I'm not ready for it at all.
KING: Because there's a finality tonight, right?
BRANDO: Well, for...
KING: I mean...
BRANDO: Yes, not for me. It will never be over. I'll always think about him and wish he was here. And, no, it will never be over for me.
KING: Do you think it's going to be hard for you being there?
BRANDO: Oh, yes. I'm bringing my napkins.
KING: Guests are arriving for Michael Jackson's burial. Among them, Liz Taylor, Stevie Wonder and others, like Gladys Knight, who will be performing.
We'll take you there shortly.
And stick around.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM JUNE 26, 2009)
LIZA MINELLI: He changed show business. He suddenly -- he hit with a force that was spectacular as he started to grow up. And then he grew and grew and grew all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM JUNE 26, 2009)
USHER: Well, Michael, he made such an incredible contribution for all of us as entertainers. I -- I can particularly say that I wouldn't be who I am today, as a philanthropist, as a humanitarian, as an artist, without the influence of Michael Jackson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM JUNE 28)
QUINCY JONES: Michael was the most professional person I ever worked with in my life -- ever, in every way. In fact, we used to set up a stand when he sang. He'd do his dances and just have a spotlight on the stand -- a pin spot on the stand. And he'd do his dances and do his twists and everything else while he was singing. He was absolutely amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: There's the picture of Forest Lawn, the site of the interment of Michael Jackson tonight. Al Sharpton has just arrived. I would bet that he would be a speaker. That would be a natural, wouldn't it, Miko, based on what he did at the...
BRANDO: Yes. I think he would be a good speaker...
KING: ...at the memorial service.
BRANDO: ...for tonight.
KING: Do you know how many people are speaking, Miko?
What do you know about the program?
BRANDO: I'm not sure about the program. I think there will be quite a few people speaking, friends and family. It will be a nice -- it will be a nice evening.
KING: We know Gladys Knight is singing.
BRANDO: She is performing.
KING: Do you know if anyone else is performing?
BRANDO: I heard Stevie...
KING: Are the Jacksons going to sing?
BRANDO: I would hope so. I would think so, yes.
KING: Dave Dave, what don't we know about him we should know?
DAVE-DAVE: Well, I believe what -- what people fail to realize is that Michael was a human being. Throughout the years, I think he was kind of stigma -- stigmatized by the media. And I believe that was -- that wasn't really helpful to him or to anybody around him.
I believe that Michael was a great person. He has never hurt a soul. And I am happy to have been his friend for all these years and been a dedicated friend.
KING: Miko, how do you explain what Michael did for Dave Dave?
BRANDO: That's just the kind of human being he was. He was very loving, caring. He -- he loved Dave from the day he met him. They became friends. Michael helped him through -- through the years and that's the kind of person Michael was. I mean, he loved a lot of people and he'll be missed and loved by a lot of people.
KING: Did he pay for a lot of your medicals?
DAVE-DAVE: Actually, he -- he did not pay for my medical. My mother had great insurance at the time. Michael...
KING: Then what did he do?
DAVE-DAVE: Michael offered a lot of emotional support for me. He was there for me whenever I need to talk to him. He opened up Neverland to me as a -- as a means to get away. He -- he was almost, metaphorically, he was almost like a father that I never had.
KING: Huh. Well said.
He -- there's a lot went we didn't know him, right, Miko?
BRANDO: I agree. Yes. He's -- the people that knew him would tell you the same stories -- how much of a loving, caring human being he was, one of a kind. And the people that didn't know him would make up stories about him.
KING: Could he have handled things better, in retrospect?
BRANDO: I think he was doing a good job. I think he was getting himself back on track, going on tour.
KING: I mean come forward more, maybe do more interviews?
BRANDO: He was a private -- a private individual who kept -- he liked his privacy. He didn't want -- that's why he kept -- I mean, he was -- he was a private man.
KING: I know you've both got to get over there.
BRANDO: So do you.
KING: Thanks for coming.
KING: Miko Brando and Dave Dave.
The Mercedes you see pulling up contains our dear friend, Elizabeth Taylor.
The final farewell to Michael Jackson just minutes away.
We'll go back to Forest Lawn right after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM JUNE 25)
CELINE DION: My husband and I and Michael came to Las Vegas to see my show. And I was more than honored to have him. And I have to say that I was questioning myself through the whole show, can I announce him?
Do I give him his -- his private time?
Am I going to abuse of him -- of his time to announce him?
Should I?
I want to do it so much. And -- and I did. And I did announce him. And the -- the whole coliseum, the whole crowd went crazy, because Michael Jackson was not only an extremely talented person, he was unique. And he was a genius. And when I said, "Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Jackson is with us tonight," the people would -- I thought people were going to jump off the balcony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Joining us now on this historic night, I guess, for want of a better term, Deepak Chopra, spiritual teacher and best-selling author, long time friend of Michael Jackson; and his son, Gotham, as well, a long time friend of the late Michael Jackson.
But first, let's go back to Forest Lawn Cemetery.
Standing by, our chief correspondent of "INSIDE EDITION", Jim Moret, and CNN's correspondent Ted Rowlands.
Cars are arriving.
Jim, you start
Ted you start.
Set the scene -- Ted.
ROWLANDS: Yes, Larry. We've seen a steady stream of cars coming in here, probably about 20 different cars. It's difficult to see who's in the cars, even though they're driving right by us, as many of them have tinted windows.
We did just see, as you mentioned on the air, Elizabeth Taylor coming in just a few minutes ago. So people obviously arriving about a half an hour away from and according to the invitation a firm 7:00 start.
So one of the big questions is how many people were invited to this private ceremony? We'll get an indication of that, obviously, over the next 30 minutes.
KING: Jim Moret, any surprises so far? MORET: No, not really. I saw Al Sharpton arrive in a white Rolls Royce about 15 minutes ago. He came out of his vehicle. This is going to be a simple family affair.
Katharine Jackson, Michael Jackson's mother, is a devout Jehovah's Witness. She wanted this to be a simple affair. And even though there are going to be luminaries and stars here, I think it will be simple and dignified, and this, for the family, I suspect, is some sense of closure for Michael Jackson's life.
Not for his death, because that investigation continues, but at least for his life. And they really needed this, because, don't forget, Michael Jackson died more than two months ago, and he's finally now being laid to rest.
KING: And Ted, before we talk to our guests here in the studio, how much security there?
ROWLANDS: Intense security. The police in Glendale here have cordoned off blocks around Forest Lawn. Members of the public are being kept a good block and a half away from just the front gate. The actual ceremony is over this hill inside the gates. The media is being tightly controlled as well. We are all along a line here in front of the cemetery. Not allowed to cross a line and go inside until the ceremony is over.
KING: All right, Gotham, what's this moment like for you? Your friend being buried?
GOTHAM CHOPRA, MICHAEL JACKSON'S LONGTIME FRIEND: I think, you know, this has been a process and I think it -- this has sort of come back, I guess. And it's been two and a half months since he passed away, so I think the healing process has been a long one, and this, I guess, will bring the family some closure. Hopefully -- I think for a lot of the friends that have gone through some of that already.
KING: What do you think of the idea of a mausoleum?
G. CHOPRA: I think it goes along with Michael's life. I mean, he loved things big and beautiful. And...
KING: It fits.
G. CHOPRA: Yes. It totally fits.
KING: You were not shocked at his death, Deepak? Do you still think Michael should be alive tonight?
DEEPAK CHOPRA, MICHAEL JACKSON'S LONGTIME FRIEND: No. Michael was a mythical being much of his life. When you look at the diversity of people that he knew from cancer patients to the young man Dave that you just met with the burns, to movie stars to the media, to Middle Eastern people.
He was a mythical being. He died a mythical death. I could never imagine in my mind that Michael would be an old man, for some reason. I couldn't visualize that.
KING: How do you explain the bad publicity he got, which was terrible for a while, Gotham seems to have disappeared.
G. CHOPRA: I think, you know, in death that happens with a lot of people, and there's been this desperate need by some of the very same people who scandalized him to now celebrate him. And it is part of the mythical elevation, but, you know, at the end of the day he was also a guy who was probably somewhere in between that.
KING: When we come back -- there's Elizabeth Taylor in a wheelchair attending. There's the ceiling. There's a little over 200 seats. When we come back, I think we'll have Jim Moret show us where Michael will be interred, and we'll have more with Deepak and Gotham. And maybe include some of your phone calls. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Want to remind you we're going to do a special midnight show tonight hosted by Jim Moret, wrapping up all the events at Forest Lawn. That's live at midnight, 9:00 Pacific.
There you see people getting settled in. Now they say they're going to start straight up, and that will be just about 22 minutes from now. So they're going to have to get them all in pretty quick if they want to be right on time.
Jim Moret, can you show us where he will be interred?
MORET: Sure. But while we're looking at this picture, Larry, I just want to remind everybody this is outside, and even though it's about 6:35 Pacific, 6:40, it's -- I just checked my phone. It's 88 degrees, and it is extremely humid.
It will be clearly uncomfortable for those folks for a while for this service to be taking place outside. Inside where Michael Jackson is going to be buried, it's called the Great Mausoleum at the Holly Terrace. It's called the Holly Terrace because there are 13 levels of these terraces.
It's beautiful marble floors. Inside this great hallway, actually, there's a recreation in stained glass of Da Vinci's "The Last Supper." And on the ceiling is a recreation of Michelangelo's "Sistine Chapel."
It is a beautiful place. And really, I'm sure that those fans of Michael Jackson and clearly his family feel that this is a fitting resting place for the king of pop. It's serene. It's separate from the public. The public will not be able to come up and intrude on this private area in Forest Lawn in Glendale.
It's beautiful here. This is a magnificent facility, and given the fact that he never wanted to go back to Neverland, this clearly is a restful and peaceful place for Michael Jackson to be interred.
KING: Ted, will the attendees be able to go inside and see what it's like, or will they be outside all the time?
ROWLANDS: We don't know, Larry, because we just don't know the specifics, but if you look at that shot, it looks as though the amount of people that are going to be attending would preclude all of them, obviously, from going inside. One would think.
Now, we don't know for sure, but the fact that we've been told this is only going to last about an hour, one would think that they're going to stay in those seats that you see in that shot.
KING: Deepak, in your opinion, is this a fitting good-bye?
D. CHOPRA: It's magnificent, fitting, magical, mythical goodbye to a mythical human being who was very innocent at times, full of compassion, love, caring, and a genius. An artistic genius of immense magnitude. Though, we were just seeing those pictures of -- you know, a drawing by Michelangelo, statues and Leonardo Da Vinci.
He was fascinated by those people. He related to archetype figures. He read. You know, he never went to school, but he read western philosophy, read...
KING: He never went to school?
D. CHOPRA: Hardly. He really didn't get a formal education.
(CROSSTALK)
D. CHOPRA: Yes. But he knew philosophy, eastern and western. He used to read the classics. He used to listen to Mozart and Beethoven and the Bee Gees. You know he was a very extraordinary human being.
KING: What do you think, Gotham, he would have thought of this?
G. CHOPRA: I think he would have smiled at a lot of this. I mean we were all at the ceremony just a few weeks after he died at the Staples Center, and that was huge and epic, and thought that couldn't be topped. So this is clearly smaller, but as full of pageantry and, I think a lot of times these ceremonies are for the family.
You know, I mean, I think I can speak for my dad when we sort of see Michael as having moved on. I mean this isn't so much for him as it is for the family to put...
D. CHOPRA: You know hardly any head of state would get this in the world.
KING: In your faith, Deepak, where is he now?
D. CHOPRA: Well, he is -- in my faith, his consciousness has survived his death, and that consciousness recycles itself.
KING: Do you think he might see this now?
D. CHOPRA: No. If he is incubating, he wouldn't. It depends, you know? He's in asleep state and the basic matrix of thought forms that was Michael Jackson will recycle itself.
KING: So he's not gone gone?
D. CHOPRA: Consciousness is never gone gone. You know?
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Do you believe that, too?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The death of consciousness is mathematically impossible.
D. CHOPRA: I know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because it's non...
G. CHOPRA: I know in our faith it wouldn't take two and a half months to put -- lay a man to rest. I mean, in our faith it takes two days you have to be cremated and that was something Michael once asked me about.
(CROSSTALK)
D. CHOPRA: Familiar ice water (ph)...
KING: You have to be cremated?
D. CHOPRA: You have to be cremated.
KING: We'll be back with more. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: There's the scene as people begin to fall in, take their seats for the upcoming service, which is, if they're on time, about 17 minutes away.
It's Thursday, so it's heroes night on CNN. We got another great hero for you this evening. Watch and be inspired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.
BUDI SOEHARDI, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: There was riots, building being burned, people just trying to save their lives. The children are supposed to have proper upbringing, and what they were having there was far from being normal.
This is so devastating to me and my family. That's why we committed to go and to help.
My name is Budi Soehardi. I'm a pilot for Singapore Airlines. I supported an orphanage to help the children in West Timor. When we started, we only had four children, and we found out that even more needed help badly, so we decided to build our own orphanage building.
Right from the beginning we give them vaccination, clothing, food. But we cannot give them anything more valuable than a proper education.
Very, very good. Right.
We are able to provide and to teach them just be who you are, help others, and do it from your heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Budi is using his pilot's salary to support the orphanage right now, but says he'd be laid off from his job with Singapore Airlines in November. Want to help? Go to CNN.com/heroes.
We'll be live from the Michael Jackson burial right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Funeral is about 13 minutes away. There's Elizabeth Taylor looking lovely, I might add. She has been seated. Confined to a wheelchair now, but still Dame Elizabeth will always be the grand dame.
Anderson Cooper stands by to host "AC 360" at the top of the hour. Anderson, what's up?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, we'll be looking at those pictures as well, bringing you a special two-hour edition of "360" starting at the top of the hour. More on Michael Jackson's funeral. As you said, about to get underway. His final resting place, Forest Lawn, Glendale Memorial Park in Los Angeles.
As you see, the guests are arriving. We should be about -- it's supposed to start right at the top of the hour, right at the top of "360." We're going to hear from one of the people speaking at the ceremony and bring you full coverage.
Also, the latest on Jaycee Dugard held captive for 18 years. Tonight a reunion with her mom. The first time they've seen each other since she was abducted. Tonight we have new details on that reunion as well as disturbing new information about Phillip Garrido's past.
And kids head back to school Tuesday. They're going to be greeted by a televised message from President Obama. That's the idea -- idea anyway, not everyone is happy about it. We'll have all the angles on that, Larry, at the top of the hour.
KING: That's Anderson Cooper, "AC 360," 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.
Macaulay Culkin, long-time friend of Michael Jackson has arrived. Deepak Chopra and Gotham Chopra are here with us in studio. Tim Moret and Ted Rowlands are on the scene. And they'll be kind of anchoring throughout the night, and Jim will be back here at midnight eastern to anchor another edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Deepak, he called you shortly before he died. What did he say?
D. CHOPRA: He said I'm sorry you're not there. This was in my voice mail. I'm sorry you're not there. I have really good news for you. Please call me back. And by the time I called him back, the number had been disconnected.
KING: Jim Moret, are they going to make that starting time at 7:00 Eastern?
MORET: You know, I'm looking at the...
KING: I mean at 7:00 Pacific, rather. I'm sorry.
MORET: ... crowd just like you are. I don't know. I would guess not, but you know, I will tell you that as the sun begins setting over the hills just to our west, it's almost as if on cue. It's finally becoming cooler here, so at least it will be more comfortable for these people. I would guess this will not start at 7:00 straight up Pacific.
KING: And, Ted, it's getting darker earlier now. This is the valley, right? So it's much hotter there.
ROWLANDS: Yes. And boy, today was a perfect example of that. It was scorching hot throughout the day here but as Jim said the temperature is now much more comfortable. We see Londell McMillan, Jackson family attorney, there in that shot.
It is very comfortable now. And as you look at these seats, people are going to be comfortable throughout this. And one of the things that could happen, we don't know the details of the ceremony, but, clearly, they could have it outside and then people could walk through the mausoleum and pay their respects possibly in a line as they go through.
But one thing, we have not seen the family yet, the immediate family arrive yet so obviously they won't start before then. So, clearly, getting it started at 7:00 would be tough at this point.
KING: Especially with all those empty seats. Now our crack staff tells me that sunset tonight, Pacific Time, is 7:15, so it will be dark and it will be cooler.
How is -- how are the police doing, Jim? Are they handling this well?
MORET: They're doing very well. As a matter of fact, they're so pleased that it's gone so smoothly, I think I mentioned at the top of the hour one of the police officers I talked to earlier said he's expecting that the $150 tab -- $150,000 tab, excuse me, that they had anticipated may be cut to $120,000. It's just gone very well.
And, frankly, people around the community have been great. They've been staying away, as they should. KING: Somebody handling traffic well because Leonard Roe was here 45 minutes ago and he's there, he's there right now.
Gotham, these are always difficult. How do you think he's going to be remembered? Do you think he's -- do you think in 50 years they'll be playing his music?
G. CHOPRA: Yes. I mean, I think he is going to be canonized.
KING: Canonized?
G. CHOPRA: I think he is one of the great, iconic artists of our era and I think he'll certainly be remembered and his music will be remembered. I think, you know -- but he'll also be remembered probably as much for the agony that he went through as much as the ecstasy that he provided everybody.
KING: Will that agony be in the first paragraph of the final obituary, Deepak?
D. CHOPRA: I think so, you know, he was a tortured soul but he was also an ecstatic soul. He could go into a state of ecstasy, which is nothing short of the existential spirit and he could do that in such a way that he brought that ecstasy to people.
I remember a concert I was with him in Bucharest, Romania. The entire city was on fire. There were people on tree tops, there were people on window ledges, on the tops of buses. As far as the eye could see there was a seething mass of humanity, and he went to an ecstatic dance and you could see the ecstasy in the whole city.
G. CHOPRA: Can I make a prediction?
KING: Yes.
G. CHOPRA: In the 20 years I knew him he was never on time for anything so my money is on this not starting on time.
KING: Yes, it's not. Well, look, look. I'll give you the empty seats. It ain't going to start in eight minutes, folks. We'll be back with more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: There's the crowd gathering. They're not going to make the 7:00 starting time.
By the way, Elizabeth Taylor, if you've done interviews with her as we have many times, was notoriously late but she was notoriously early tonight. And there she is, as we said earlier, looking fantastic.
Deepak Chopra, you brought a few of your own personal photos. I think we're going to show them and you can tell us about them.
Are we going to show them, guys? Yes. All right. D. CHOPRA: So there he's practicing and rehearsal and he's -- there you are again, the brand-new moves that he was developing even as he was composing the music. And...
KING: Where -- did you take these pictures?
D. CHOPRA: These are at Neverland Valley taken by a friend of ours, (INAUDIBLE) from India. And there he is under a tree. I mean those are the days when he was full of exuberance and ecstasy. That's in a car. The two of us are fast asleep. We are returning from Los Angeles to Neverland Valley after a night of hard work going over his lyrics.
And that's in front of a mirror, you see that in the background. And he's -- he always says, you know, that the world is a mirror of our own self so he remembered the song "Man in the Mirror." That was one of his favorites.
KING: The camera liked him, did it not?
D. CHOPRA: Well, he was very...
KING: There you see the motorcycle cops. That tells us the family is probably close to arriving.
Gotham, you went with him on the Dangerous tour, right?
D. CHOPRA: Yes, I did. Yes, I was a teenager. I was a kid when I did that.
KING: What, he invited you along?
D. CHOPRA: Yes. He invited and I nervously went. It was -- after my junior of high school, and I went and asked my parents can I go away for the summer to Europe?
KING: Did you have a role?
D. CHOPRA: I did after a while. I asked him. I got so bored, frankly, just sitting around in hotel rooms with him so he gave me a job on the -- it was quite a...
KING: They loved him all over Europe, right?
D. CHOPRA: They loved them everywhere. And you know, I think one of the amazing things is every stadium was sold out hundreds of thousands of people and yet afterwards he was always -- you could see he was so isolated. I mean he was by himself.
KING: Here's some final comments. The temperature is 86 degrees in Glendale, California. The humidity not bad. 33 percent. Sunset is 7:15. They are not going to start at 7:00.
What's the -- your vantage point, a final comment for LARRY KING LIVE, Ted? ROWLANDS: Well, it is turning out to be a gorgeous night, Larry, with the sun setting now and as you mentioned, the temperatures starting to drop and we're just waiting, it looks like, on the family and a few late guests. But no sign yet of the family. Obviously once they arrive this will begin. But turning out to be just a gorgeous night and a beautiful setting.
KING: And Jim Moret, I know you're going to be heading over here to host the next edition of LARRY KING LIVE in two hours. What do you want to tell us before you go?
MORET: It's really -- when you look at that magnificent setting of that memorial and now you look at this very dignified, private setting, this really seems like a fitting memorial, one that perhaps Michael Jackson would have really appreciated.
KING: Thank you, guys. Thanks for great reporting. We only have a minute left.
Deepak, what are your thoughts?
D. CHOPRA: I think Michael will be remembered as one of the greatest artists of our time. He could move as no one else. He could sing as no one else. He could go into a frenzied state as no one else. And he could bring people to that same frenzy as no one else.
KING: He was a genius.
D. CHOPRA: He was a genius.
KING: And, Gotham, your thoughts of your friend.
G. CHOPRA: I think it's a sad day but it's also a day to celebrate, you know, his life and I think put some of all of this chaos that has surrounded his death which unfortunately will go on, put it to rest.
KING: Thank you both very much. Thanks for contributing. Thanks to all of our guests and of course CNN's continuous coverage. Anderson Cooper is going to have a two-hour edition of "AC 360" coming up, and then Jim Moret will be back to host edition number two of LARRY KING LIVE.
You see the darkness kind of setting in now over Forest Lawn Cemetery and the upcoming mausoleum interment of Michael Jackson.
Tomorrow night we're going to do a very special program on the almost, just past 40th anniversary of the Manson murders. You will not want to miss that show tomorrow night.
Back here, midnight tonight Eastern for another live hour of Michael Jackson's burial. Time now for continuing coverage, "AC 360." Here's Anderson Cooper. Anderson?
