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CNN Larry King Live
Tiger Woods Returns
Aired April 08, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: On the tee, Tiger Woods. Tonight, he's back -- Tiger's first tournament since a sex scandal forced him for golf -- cheered and not jeered at the Masters.
And then, three teens plead not guilty today in the case of a schoolmate who may have been bullied to death. Dr. Laura reveals in depth her own childhood torment. We'll take your calls, too.
Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening.
Tiger is no stranger to competition, scrutiny or pressure.
So is it any surprise that he's four under par, two off the pace today, his best Masters start ever?
Here to talk about Tiger's return are two journalists who are at Augusta.
Jim Gray, the correspondent for the Golf Channel.
And Doug Ferguson, the golf writer with the Associated Press.
All right, Jim, frankly, were you surprised at his performance today?
JIM GRAY, CORRESPONDENT, THE GOLF CHANNEL: Well, it's really astonishing the man hasn't competed in 144 days. He has had all kinds of trouble brewing at home, a worldwide scandal. And he comes out here and if he makes a few more puts, he really could be leading the tournament.
He was composed. He was crystal clear. He seemed to be showing very little rust. He missed some putts that he usually would make. And he seemed, for the first time in a long time, to kind of enjoy the walk. He said he was after the round, at peace. And it seemed to go pretty well.
Yes, it's -- it's very surprising. But it's also surprising that we have a 50-year-old man in Freddie Couples leading the tournament, shooting six under par, and we have a 60-year-old man, Larry, Tom Watson, one stroke behind.
So it's all been a very surprising and uplifting day here at Augusta National.
KING: How do you explain, despite the fact that he did things which got him terrible publicity, that he was so cheered today?
GRAY: Well, you know, he hasn't committed any crimes. He simply disappointed a lot of people with his behavior. And he's let down an awful lot of children by not being the role model that he had hoped he would be and that they had hoped he would be. I mean he was a great, great golfer. And he proved today that he hasn't lost his game.
So I think the people here are showing appreciation for their golf. I don't think that anybody's standing up here today when they're cheering him and saying, jeez, that's great, let's all go out and have these type of affairs and think that that's going to be the norm of life. I don't think that was what was said here.
I think that this is a respectful place where people appreciate the golf. I mean we all want to see Picasso paint. We all want to see Michelangelo sculpt. We all wanted to see Ali box. If we get a chance to see Tiger Woods play golf -- and that's what this is. And he played golf today.
So I wouldn't misinterpret the reception. But, you know, he's been torn down. It's been a tremendous fall from grace, Larry. And I think that, you know, once that happens, you build him up to tear him down and now they're building him up again.
KING: Uh-huh.
GRAY: And his play was outstanding today, so he should have been cheered.
KING: He is a Buddhist. And someone flying a small plane over Augusta today had a little fun with some word play. The plane had a huge sign that read, "Tiger, did you mean bootyism?"
Did you -- did you expect more stuff like that today, Jim?
(AUDIO GAP)
KING: OK, there's the sign that said, "Tiger, did you mean bootyism?"
And apparently was Jim having a problem hearing us?
Jim, do you hear us?
GRAY: I do hear you now, yes.
KING: We're having some connecting problem.
We'll take a break and come back. And we're going to meet two extraordinary men of American letters, Stephen A. Smith and John Salley.
And they will have an intellectual discussion about one of the occurrences today in Georgia.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back.
They're having some tough weather in Augusta, so we'll go back to Jim Gray and Doug Ferguson and then we'll meet Stephen Smith and John Salley.
Doug, what did you make of Tiger's play today?
DOUG FERGUSON, GOLF WRITER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: I was a little surprised, Larry, because we never see him play this well even in -- even in good times. But I think the key to his whole day today, frankly, was the -- the about four foot par putt he made on the second hole, because what happened at the U.S. Open when he came off that long break back in 2008 was that he got a little bit behind early and it affected how he got into the rhythm of the round.
But when you get through the third hole at one under and you're staying around par all day, I think it relaxes him and he -- and he started to go after some easy pins.
KING: Were you surprised at the crowd's reaction to him, Doug?
FERGUSON: Not really, Larry, because he's been out here since Monday. And, strangely enough, once he gets out here on Monday, it feels like five months was -- was gone like that. Now he's out Tuesday and he's out Wednesday and it seems like it's back to normal in terms of his golf.
I thought today was the most spontaneous reaction to it. I thought it was a little bit guarded. People were not quite sure how to react to him. Earlier in the week, this felt more natural. And I think everyone was just waiting to see him play and see how he did.
KING: Jim, is there any doubt that he's the greatest of them all?
GRAY: Well, he needs to win the titles. He has 14 major championships. He is four behind Jack Nicklaus. He certainly, probably, in all likelihood, will go down as the greatest golfer ever, but he's got to get to 19. That's what Tiger Woods says. That's what Jack Nicklaus knows. That's what everybody involved with this game knows.
If he were to somehow quit and play golf -- quit playing golf for the rest of his life today, there would be some in some quarters who would say he was the greatest golfer ever. But he would not have the records.
KING: All right. I'll put it this way, is he the best...
FERGUSON: He's an amazing, amazing athlete, Larry. KING: Is he -- is he the best you ever saw?
GRAY: Well, no. I saw Jack Nicklaus. And as long as Tiger Woods is going to say that Jack Nicklaus is the best -- and I saw Jack Nicklaus -- I'm going to say Jack Nicklaus is the best.
In terms of what he could do...
KING: OK, Doug, is he the best...
GRAY: -- in this day and age, I think that Tiger Woods will be the best. I'll agree with you.
KING: All right. Doug, is he the best player you ever saw?
FERGUSON: A little more unfair for me, Larry, because I only saw Jack when he was 46 and -- and won his sixth green jacket. I think Tiger's the best of his generation. I think that's the only way you can look at this. Jack was the best of his. Hogan was the best of his...
KING: All right...
FERGUSON: Jones, you can go all the way back. You just have to look at what you've got today.
KING: Thank you both very much.
We'll be checking back with you.
This tournament's got three more days to go.
Jim Gray and Doug Ferguson.
Here with us now, Stephen A. Smith is in New York, the nationally syndicated radio host for Fox Sports Radio and the columnist for the "Philadelphia Inquirer".
And the former NBA star, broadcaster and commentator on the passing scene, John Salley.
Stephen Smith, were you surprised at the whole story today?
STEPHEN A. SMITH, COLUMNIST, "THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER": Not necessarily. I mean Tiger Woods I consider to be the best in the world, the best I've ever seen. And the fact is, is that he had some time off. And, you know, regardless of being in the sex addiction clinic or whatever where -- wherever he wants to call himself being -- he had plenty of time to work on his game, to practice just a little bit. I'm quite sure that he got on that golf course a little bit and -- and worked on his game. And he -- he's focused. He knows what it takes because he's won before. He's a born winner. And this is his sanctuary. If he doesn't win here, then that brings more fuel to the flames. And I think he recognizes that and he stepped up and performed. I'm not surprised at all.
KING: John, did he surprise you?
JOHN SALLEY, FORMER NBA PLAYER: No. He's the greatest player -- golfer of all time. I mean I had -- I called the people from Titleist to make my sticks today. Literally, I'm going to learn how to play golf because I was so into what Tiger Woods was doing.
And for Jim Gray and anybody else to say he's not the greatest of all time, how could you say Michael Jordan was the greatest of all time?
Bill Russell had more championships than him. It's not about how much championships or how many titles. He's the greatest player of all time. He stopped the world 20 minutes. We're talking on your great show right here about Tiger Woods. It's not even a sports show.
Yes, he's the greatest player of all time. What he did today is prove what he does on the golf course has nothing to do with what he does anywhere else.
KING: Earlier this week, Billy Payne, the chairman of Augusta National Golf Club, was very critical of Tiger and Tiger responded today.
Listen to this and we'll get our guests' comments.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY PAYNE, CHAIRMAN, AUGUSTA NATIONAL GOLF CLUB: It is not simply the degree of his conduct that is so egregious here, it is the fact that he disappointed all of us -- and, more importantly, our kids and our grandkids. Our hero did not live up to the expectations of the role model we saw for our children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Yes, Tiger, Billy Payne said some pretty tough things about you yesterday.
Did he -- did he say those to you personally before he said them to all of us?
Did you discuss that with him?
TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: Yes, we did have a conversation. Yes, we did.
QUESTION: What was your opinion of what he said?
WOODS: I was disappointed in myself, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Billy Payne, except in rare circumstances, is being universally rapped today.
What did you make of what he said, Stephen?
SMITH: He deserved it. He was a disgrace and it's embarrassing. I mean the hypocrisy that this man exhibited by giving this speech, I can't even get into that. I mean it -- this is a man that ostracizes -- you know, this is a club that ostracizes women. I mean when we -- before Tiger Woods, we -- you know, there was a debate as to whether or not African-Americans would ever be invited to Augusta, for crying out loud.
And this man is going to sit here and talk about how our kids have been disappointed and all of this stuff?
Now mind you, it's the timing of it that really, really rakes my nerves, Larry, simply because he could have given this soliloquy, this sermon, per se -- he's not a priest, he's not the pope, he's not a pastor or anything like that. But considering the sermon that he gave, he could have gave it on Monday. Heck, he could have gave it on Sunday.
But, no. He chooses to wait until two days after Tiger Woods spoke to the media and was trying to put this past him to sit here and basically chastise this guy publicly and give him a verbal lashing.
And I think it was disgraceful, hypocritical. The only good thing that has come out about it was what we heard from Campbell Brown and Christine Brennan before your show came on...
KING: Yes.
SMITH: -- when they said he's provoked them to talk about other issues, like why women haven't been involved in Augusta and whatever.
KING: Because...
SMITH: He's a walking hypocrite, plain and simple.
KING: Augusta has one black member who's been there for 20 years.
SALLEY: Yes, but he was -- he was helping put the bags away. Listen...
(LAUGHTER)
SALLEY: That was probably one of the only times or two times I agree with Stephen. The fact that he came out and talked about our children and our grandchildren, are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me?
Do you know what you probably -- what that guy probably did in his past?
And I'm just sitting around thinking, people are talking about their kids and their grandkids -- Charles Barkley said it best, I mean, you raise your kids. Tiger Woods should be their hero when it comes to sports. He should be their hero when he hits the ball. Everything else, what happens -- what he does in his personal life, this is ridiculous when people are sitting around saying this. You should have no business talking about your kids, my grandkids, my grandkids' grandkids, the house I had back on the -- on the lot. That's ridiculous.
This -- and...
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: -- best. I remember when I was -- I mean when -- when I was paying attention to Augusta and everybody was talking about going to The Masters and why they named it The Masters and why you couldn't have women there and when Tiger first went there. I thought it was amazing when he got his first green jacket and he thanked all the guys that came before him that went through the struggle.
Tiger is a real role model. He's a standup guy and he's smart enough to just say that guy is right, next question.
SMITH: Well -- well, let -- let's not go too far off the of -- off the road here, John. I don't completely agree with you there at all. It's not like what Tiger Woods has done or the extreme to which he's reportedly and allegedly done things that he doesn't deserve to be scrutinized because of it, because let's be clear, the fact is, is that even though your kids -- athletes shouldn't be role models, they are role models. And there is a responsibility that comes along with it.
All I'm saying is that Bill . Payne -- Mr. Payne, of all people, shouldn't be the one calling him out the way that he did...
SALLEY: Right.
SMITH: -- and the timing was disastrous. But that's entirely different than giving Tiger Woods a complete pass.
KING: OK. All right...
SMITH: That's all him saying.
SALLEY: Well, we also -- we also -- we also hold his feet to the fire longer than we held anybody else.
SMITH: I agree with that. I agree with that.
SALLEY: And I think enough is enough.
SMITH: Absolutely.
KING: All right, let me get a break.
SMITH: I agree with that.
KING: Tiger's new ad for Nike has polarized some. Other think it's brilliant.
Where do you stand?
Watch it and see for yourself, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Joining us, Donny Deutsch, chairman of Deutsch Incorporated.
And David Cornwell, sports attorney, known as "the cleaner." He's represented a number of athletes. Among his current clients, Pittsburgh Steeler quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. He's accused, by the way, of sexual assault.
Nike has a new Tiger ad out just yesterday. It features his late father's voice. It's getting a lot of attention. We'll have our whole panel discuss it.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY NIKE GOLF)
VOICE OF EARL WOODS: Tiger, I am more prone to be inquisitive, to promote discussion. I want to find out what your thinking was. I want to find out what your feelings are. And did you learn anything?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: OK, we'll start with Donny Deutsch and go around.
What do you make of that, Donny?
DONNY DEUTSCH, CHAIRMAN, DEUTSCH, INC.: Stunningly brilliant. Genius. One of the single best pieces of advertising I've seen in a decade.
What they -- what Nike did...
KING: Because?
DEUTSCH: What they did in one fell swoop, instead of ignoring what went on and, you know, having him play a golf in ad where you'd say, wait a second, is nothing different in this guy -- not guy -- has this guy not learned?
They took the voice of God, the voice of his conscience, his father, in a very stoic way, to say you know what, this man is carrying this with him now. Yes, what he did was terribly wrong, but don't think because you see him playing golf now that there's not a new level of consciousness, there's not a new level, hopefully, of morality.
And I think it was brilliant. It was artfully, boldly, stunningly done.
Kudos to Nike.
KING: All right.
David, you're a cleaner.
Was this a clean bit of work?
DAVID CORNWELL, SPORTS ATTORNEY: I thought the ad was brilliant, as well. Another thing is, it was consistent or it is consistent with Tiger's statement, when he said that he needed to go back to his roots.
What -- what better way than connecting him back to his father?
On the on "The View" green, I was sitting next to Tiger's mother and Phil Knight. And Phil Knight is clearly pleased with this ad and proud of it. I think they did a great job.
KING: And what do you think, Mr. Salley?
SALLEY: I think it was brilliant, just like Donny said. It was -- it got to the point. The only people that are in his head, really, when you come down to it, it's his backbone, it's his family -- his mother, his father, his wife, his children.
KING: Isn't that a little weird, though, the voice of a dead person?
SALLEY: Well, yes, that's like, you know, but I've watched movies of some people who have passed, also. And I've seen some things on, you know, when you show it. Yes.
KING: OK.
Let's see if Stephen makes this a complete agreement.
Stephen?
SMITH: Well, I -- I do completely agree. I think it was absolutely brilliant. But I think that what a lot of people have failed to recognize, you've got some people that -- what -- that they sit around and they talk about how, well, you know what, it's kind of creepy or what have you.
And I said wait a minute. All of us have loved ones, some alive, some who have -- who have passed away -- that we hear them talking to us at key pivotal moments and junctures in our lives. And the fact is, is that that was the situation with Tiger Woods.
I'm here in New York City. I ran into Oprah Winfrey today. She asked me the same question. And I said, listen, you know, he's talking -- his father was talking to him. This is what he hears himself. He hears his father talking to him, giving him counsel in his time of need.
All of us go through that at some point or a pivotal time in our lives. And I think it was apropos and, more importantly, it shows that Tiger wasn't looking to run from this issue for a change. He was willing to tackle it head on...
KING: Yes.
SMITH: -- and recognize and say to the world, listen, I know what I've done. I've manned up. I've owned up, finally. Let's move forward.
DEUTSCH: What Nike had to do...
KING: Jimmy Kimmel had a...
DEUTSCH: What...
KING: By the way, Jimmy Kimmel -- hold it, Donny.
Jimmy Kimmel had a lot of fun with this last night on his show, based on the ad.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE," COURTESY ABC)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: There's another commercial premiering tomorrow -- another Tiger Woods commercial, this one featuring the voice of his mother, called Tita Woods (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tiger, what the (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) were you thinking?
You stupid, stupid boy. Always using your (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) instead of your brain.
Didn't I always tell you not to sleep with (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE)?
You're a (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: All right. Donny, that was -- that was a little brilliant, wasn't it, Donny?
DEUTSCH: That was perfect. That was perfect. By the way, you know, watching his mea culpa, I was more afraid of his mother, I think, than any woman or any man on the history of the planet. I would not want to be answering to that woman, either.
You know, whether they used his father or not, the important thing for Nike, they had to say to their audience -- to the people that buy their stuff, you know what, yes, we're sticking with him, but we're not blind to what went on. We have to kind of pay homage to the people that have had major issues with it.
But I'm going to stand by what I said all along. Whether they did this ad or not, he is not -- one man is not buying one less golf club or one golf hat...
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: -- because of what Tiger Woods did with women. The reason he's up here is because he's the greatest golfer in the world. And you know, John mentioned earlier the Charles Barkley ad. He's not a role model because of any other reason than that. Let's grow up...
SMITH: Larry...
DEUTSCH: -- and understand that.
SMITH: Well, let -- let's also make sure to mention this about Nike, Donny. Let's not completely absolve them and treat them as if they're pure as the fallen snow, for crying out.
Nike not only recognizes by doing this, it shows that they're consistent and their message is consistent, but it also helps them appeal to a lot of aspiring athletes or future stars in various sports, because when you stand by Tiger in this manner, particularly as he's going through what he's going through right now, it helps you ingratiate yourself with future stars that are looking to do deals...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: All right, let me get a break...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: We'll come right back.
Stephen sees motive in all things.
SMITH: No question.
KING: We'll...
(LAUGHTER)
KING: We'll come right back with our panel.
Don't go away.
SMITH: And this little creature running on (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: David Cornwell, we've been kidding around a lot about this. There's some humor in it. But seriously, can he return all the way to good graces where, in two years, this is forgotten?
(AUDIO GAP)
KING: OK. We lost the signal to Augusta. Again, there's a terrible -- all right, I'll ask...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KING: -- Stephen Smith or John...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: We'll start with -- let's go with John Salley this time around.
SALLEY: (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: Can he put it away?
SALLEY: Yes. Well, he's always, you know, like I say, they obituate people in this world now. You're always going to be something that they can tag onto you.
But Kobe's gotten past it. Kobe, people are backing, not even talking about it. They're just going to say now that we know that Tiger used to like, you know, like sex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh...
SALLEY: But I think he's going to get past this whole problem of everybody putting something on him. He's a golfer. So let him be a golfer...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larry?
KING: Donny, do you think he'll get past it?
DEUTSCH: Of course. He's -- he'll be -- he'll be bigger than ever, because the story we love after taking somebody down is bringing them back. And if anything -- the one knock on this guy you could say is he wasn't human and this has made him human.
You know, what he did, half the people in the world do. It's not right. But as long as he kind of repents -- I'm not sitting in judgment -- but walks the straight line, what people think he should be doing if he stays married, he'll be bigger than ever.
But before I get off that, also, Larry, can your research people check and see if there are any Jews in Augusta?
Because I'm nauseas about -- about this Payne guy, also. I was so violated and disgusted by his speech, the way he was spanking Tiger. So I knew we've got one African-American there, no women.
Can we check and see if there's a Jew in Augusta, by the way?
SALLEY: No. The Jewish guys left, Donny. I saw them. I hooked up.
(LAUGHTER)
SALLEY: They had the last and first row seats.
(LAUGHTER)
SALLEY: So I couldn't get on the plane.
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: Larry?
KING: All right.
Stephen, yes?
SMITH: Yes, I'd like to answer that question. I mean it's the big elephant in the room...
KING: Sure.
SMITH: -- but I'll say it, since John and Donny missed out on it. The men have already forgiven him. The women probably never will. That's really the truth.
DEUTSCH: The men never were mad at him.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Stephen, the men were never made at him.
SMITH: That's really true.
DEUTSCH: The men were never -- so what?
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: That's what I meant. That's what I meant. The men have no problem with him.
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: No, the women on "The View" agree with you, Stephen, because you...
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: -- you wanted to get on "The View."
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: But that's not the deal.
SMITH: John, trust me.
SALLEY: The deal is...
SMITH: They'll (INAUDIBLE).
SALLEY: The deal is the women love a gangster.
SMITH: John.
SALLEY: They love the bad boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bad boy.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of them do.
SMITH: John, relax. Relax. First of all, John...
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Quiet.
Stephen, go and then...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: And, more importantly, when it comes down to it, that you're going to have a lot of women that are going to have a problem with him. The men, as a result, are going to pretend to have a problem with him, because they don't want to alienate the women in their lives.
SALLEY: But Stephen...
SMITH: They don't want to (INAUDIBLE)...
DEUTSCH: The dollars and cents...
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: The women don't matter.
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: The products he sells -- razor blades, video games, golf clubs...
SMITH: I'm just answering Larry's question.
DEUTSCH: -- it's all men...
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: It's all men. It doesn't matter.
SMITH: I was just answering Larry's question.
DEUTSCH: They don't care.
SMITH: I was just answering Larry's question, that's all.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is fun, guys.
SALLEY: We've got a whole new thing. This should be a Viagra show.
KING: That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larry...
SALLEY: Oh, I can't say that. We've...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larry, that's called...
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: -- help you better.
KING: Well, I'm -- I'm losing control here.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's my father (INAUDIBLE).
KING: OK.
Can Tiger -- all right, you've got -- now let's get to the sports aspect.
can he win this tournament, John?
SALLEY: Yes. He's going to win this tournament.
KING: Going to win?
SALLEY: This would have been the greatest week...
KING: How do you predict a golf tournament?
SALLEY: He's going to win this tournament. I'm watching. Everyone is -- it's -- it's Thursday. No one ever watches TV. They wouldn't pay attention to it. And I'm watching all -- I mean this is the best week and I'm watching golf this weekend. I'm telling you, it's (INAUDIBLE).
KING: Can he win it, Stephen?
SMITH: I don't think there's any question. If he's within two shots come Saturday, I think that, you know, palms are going to get sweaty, people are going to get nervous because they know that Tiger is coming and Tiger is going to turn it on. Because if he can get through the -- if he gets through the first day, everyday is just going to get that much easier for him. If he's within two shots come Saturday afternoon, look out. He's taking the tournament. KING: Donny, can he win it?
DEUTSCH: Of course. Here's the thing -- the one thing that I -- people who go, wow, he's playing golf, he's great again, what a shock.
Why wouldn't he be?
You know -- you know, so what?
He went through a scandal. This is what he does for a living. This is his safe haven. I would expect nothing different.
Why wouldn't he be playing golf -- great golf right now?
KING: All right. Let's take a break and come back with more.
And then we'll be meeting Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Philippe Cousteau, Jacques' grandson, has written an exclusive for us about saving the environment. What can you do to help? Check it out, CNN.com/LarryKing.
David Cornwell is back with us.
That's a good point you made with us during the break. With the rains there occurring tonight, those greens will be faster tomorrow, David, he might have a rough time tomorrow?
CORNWELL: He -- I think he may very well. I think Tiger had a 66 in his bag if he could have gotten control of his putter. So, that's really going to be the key -- how well he putts through the rest of the tournament and the course is just going to get harder.
KING: And, by the way, David, I thought of the subject, is Ben Roethlisberger going to come out OK?
CORNWELL: Well, we certainly hope so, and there's good reason to believe so. The case has been turned over to make a decision whether or not to charge Ben. There's no way to predict when that will happen, but we're hopeful for a good result.
KING: All right. And how far does this thing go, Johnny? Does the Tiger Woods thing eventually die down and he just becomes the player -- the great player Tiger Woods and we don't talk about it anymore?
SALLEY: No, I think -- I think we're going to -- he's always going to show up on VH1 when they talk about scandals. But he's still going to be known as a great, great player. And he's still going to be known as a great golfer and that should be all he should be known as. KING: Steven, were you shocked at what we learn about Tiger, the other side of Tiger that no one knew? Are you shocked by the whole story? No?
SMITH: I'm never shocked by any like that because I think that when you're that young and you're that wealthy and you're that reputable and you're that famous, I think temptation comes at you every second. And I think you're human. You're not infallible. You're going to fall prey to that at some point in time.
I think that one of the things that we all have bypassed and it came back to my memory when his father Earl Woods was heard in this commercial, was the fact that his father was the one that had come out and was quoted as saying, he didn't think Tiger should get married, he thought he was too young. He thought that there was -- there were things that he just wasn't ready for.
I think people forget that, because we want our stars to come across as all wholesome and all of this other stuff. And I'm telling you something right now, this might go on in terms of, you know, Tiger becomes a great golfer and he is a great golfer. He's the greatest in the world. He can win, and we'll look past this, even though he'll always be mentioned on VH1 like John said.
But if, by some chance, he decides or Elin decides or one of them decides together to get a divorce, then this will all be revisited again.
DEUTSCH: Larry, once and for all, can we stop being shocked when men of power are adulterers, like multiple women? It goes with the territory.
You know, John -- John played ball. John, you'd walked of stadiums, the women would be lined up. And I'm not saying you, but the players --
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCH: Guys, you, you. I'm not saying it's right, can we stop acting shocked when politicians, when athletes, when billionaires like because they have access --
SALLEY: Just stop saying men.
DEUTSCH: No, but the difference is Chris Rock has got the joke, that sometimes you can line up men's -- how much men fool around by what their options are. And obviously, a billionaire athlete like Tiger Woods has got a lot of options. So, let's stop being shocked -- we should be shocked if it didn't happen. And let's stop even caring about it.
I want to see the guy win the Masters. I don't care what he does with his other putter frankly is probably not my concern.
SALLEY: Well, like you said, his putter tomorrow, if he gets more control of his putter, and, you know, he'd shoot better. KING: OK. Do you think, Steven Smith, that he's learned his lesson? Do you think -- and this is purely a guess -- that Tiger will be clean from now on?
SMITH: I've said it on your show weeks ago, months ago. I'll repeat it again, Larry, just in case you didn't remember. Whether the number 7, 11, 13, 15, 16, 19 or whatever number amount of women, or whatever amount of women he had, you don't go from that to zero. I don't care what anybody says.
Yes, for the time being he's behaving himself. Yes, because of the situation that he's in and he cares about his family and what- have-you. But the reality is, is that you are who you are. And when you get to that point where you feel the need to have that many women, you may slow down a little bit, you may not speed, but ultimately you're not going to stop completely. It just doesn't happen when you're that prolific and I don't mean that in a positive way. It just doesn't.
KING: John --
SALLEY: Yes?
KING: Hold on. John is a little perturbed by that. I want to get one more break, come back with this panel, a couple more minutes and then we'll meet Dr. Laura Schlessinger.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: And bad weather in Augusta has caused us to lose David Cornwell. We thank him for being with us.
A couple more minutes with Stephen A. Smith, John Salley and Donny Deutsch.
When Mr. Smith was speaking that Tiger will return to bad ways, you were nodding your head viciously, no, John.
SALLEY: Well, I didn't say viciously. I guess --
KING: In my opinion.
SALLEY: Right. Stephen -- yes, you're right, I was viciously because Stephen's obviously speaking from experience, what he's talking, but you can't really say what somebody else is doing. You can't really go and put that on somebody. That's not -- it's not fair that you're going to go and just put a stamp on somebody, like, you're this and that's your way, people can change.
DEUTSCHE: By the way, let's stop caring.
SALLEY: Yes.
DEUTSCHE: Let's stop caring whether he does or not. I don't -- Tiger Woods doesn't exist in my consciousness because of what he does or doesn't do with women. The only reason he exists in my consciousness is to watch him play golf.
SMITH: Time out.
DEUTSCHE: I don't give a damn whether he does or not either way.
SMITH: I can't -- I can't take this anymore. First of all, we're on THE LARRY KING LIVE show to answer the questions that he asked. The man asked me a question, I gave him an answer. He didn't ask us to come on and express how we don't care. He asked us --
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCHE: What I'm saying is we don't care.
SMITH: What I'm saying is the man asked me a question, and I don't believe that you go from that many women to zero. Simple.
DEUTSCHE: And my answer is whether he does or doesn't, who the hell cares. That's an answer.
SMITH: I agree with that. Will you care about stuff that you're sitting on air? You're here. You obviously care enough to answer.
SALLEY: This time he's going to be smarter. He's going to go to people -- if he needs whatever he needs, if that's what he needs to make him be who he is, if that's his muse, he'll just pick them better.
KING: Oh, I see. Well, isn't like taking steroids away from steroid user?
SMITH: Oh, so, he's going to pick them better now?
SALLEY: Well, I don't know -- well, even to this point. This is what everyone is pushing at this point and it was so funny.
KING: That's his steroids.
SALLEY: If that's his vice or that's his story, or whatever it maybe, and he said it right when he's talking about great men. I've been watching your show forever and I've been watching "Jerry Springer" and I see "Maury Povich" -- I've seen all these shows. I've never seen a professional athlete or famous person or powerful person. I've seen a lot of people with not many teeth with two women, not whatever with three men.
I saw one girl on Maury Povich --
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: -- because he couldn't figure who has --
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: Because I'm trying to learn how to be a host and then I started just watching you. But --
(CROSSTALK)
DEUTSCHE: Next on LARRY KING.
SALLEY: That's Larry King.
Who's your TV daddy? Who do you really want to get money from?
KING: Thanks, guys. You're watching this show in the west (ph) --
SMITH: I'm trying to figure out, Larry --
KING: -- on this serious topic --
(CROSSTALK)
KING: -- I tell you what --
SALLEY: He's just mad that he's wearing hot clothing.
(CROSSTALK)
SALLEY: It's purple. In H.D.
KING: We will have them back -- hold on -- we will have this panel back because I am basically a masochist.
Stephen Smith, John Salley and Donny Deutsch -- Dr. Laura is here and she will try to analyze all of this.
By the way, she was here as a kid beaten up, a lot to say about that bullying case. She's next.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIALBREAK)
KING: Before we go to Dr. Laura Schlessinger from Santa Barbara, let's go to New York.
And, Anderson Cooper, give us a clue as to what's coming up at the top of the hour -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST "AC 360": Larry, tonight on "360," a district attorney in Wisconsin warns teachers that teaching sex education may be a crime if they teach a new state government-mandated sex-ed course, the district attorney says they could be arrested and serve up to six years in prison. How did this happen? Well, we're keeping them honest.
Also, real (ph) politics, Republican, Democrat or a tea partier? Action was taken today to bring a third political party to power, with possibly Sarah Palin playing a prominent role. And saving Haiti. Hundreds of thousands living in tent cities around Port-au-Prince facing a potential disaster in the making. Torrential rains could flood makeshift shelters. The government knew the rains were coming. Are they ready?
We'll talk with Sean Penn about the situation.
Those stories and a lot more tonight, Larry, on "360."
KING: That's Anderson Cooper, 10:00 Eastern and 7:00 Pacific.
Dr. Laura Schlessinger, internationally syndicated radio host, best-selling author, is here not to talk about a book or anything but to talk about bullying. Three teenaged girls in Massachusetts have pled not guilty today to charges that they bullied their class mate 15-year-old Phoebe Prince who committed suicide earlier this year. Three other teens are also charged in the case. It's opened a floodgate of opinion about bullying in schools.
What do you make of this story, Laura?
DR. LAURA SCHLESSINGER, RADIO HOST: Well, frankly I'm pretty glad that somebody is taking it very seriously finally, because the type of bullying that has evolved using the Internet, and physical violence and threats and ganging up has just escalated to an outrageous -- it was not on harassment, it was not even bullying, it was persecution, that she killed herself was her choice of options and I'm very sad. That is not their fault, but they drove her to a place where she thought there was no hope, her mother evidently had gone to the school, teachers had seen it, other kids had seen it. And I have a point to make about that in a moment.
KING: You were bullied, am I correct? You were bullied as a kid?
SCHLESSINGER: I -- yes, pretty severely when we moved into this neighborhood on Long Island. It was mostly one religious persuasion there and my mother was a nice Italian Catholic, a drop dead gorgeous woman from Italy, a shiksa. And she was married to a Jewish man and that's a shiksa, and that's a bad thing.
And I really took the grief for that because they would say horrendous things about my mother and I would try to defend her and then I got picked up in fistfights and thrown down a flight of stairs. And I had my fun. I certainly understand what that torment is like. But it wasn't as long lasting obviously and as intense.
KING: So, what was the point you said you wanted to make?
SCHLESSINGER: Well, the point I wanted to make was -- I put all the parents in that school on a kind of trial, because we don't raise our children with the moral value to stand in between the innocent and evil. A lot of kids saw it. They watched it happen in front of them.
They didn't physically get between these kids. They didn't stand up to them and say you should stop doing this. They didn't go snitch. They let it happen.
They twittered. They put it on their Facebooks. They used it as entertainment like throwing Christians to the lions.
This was pretty insidious that a whole school full of children stood by and watched this happen, not only to this girl, but to other kids.
So, my word to the parents is that, they have an ultimate responsibility to raise their children to do that. I remember my kid came home from school one time and said, "I'm in serious trouble, you have to go see the principal?" What happened? "I was in a fist fight." Who started it? "The other kid."
How did it start? "He was picking on some small kid and I told them to stop and shoved me." And then what you did do? "Oh, I took him down. Yes."
So, I sent my husband in to talk to the principal the next day because I was sure I could control my self. And my husband is very New English -- New England, and he could that. But I told my son I was very proud of him and, of course, now my son's in the military doing it on a bigger scale.
But we need to raise our kids to not stand by like little cowards, afraid that somebody's going to turn on them. We have to protect each other.
KING: Why do you think parents and the like look away? Why?
SCHLESSINGER: I think we have more broken homes and shack-ups and remarriages and a lot of guilty parents, two full-time career parents, not very involved, don't want to know, can't be bothered, and just get their guilt turned into sort of an arrogant defensiveness when a teacher calls and says, "You know, your kid's doing something wrong." "Not my kid. You punish my kid and I'm going to sue."
I mean, you have parents suing when kids are sent home with very inappropriate t-shirts with bad sayings on them. You have this arrogance and a lack of responsibility because of the whole concept of a moral fabric and -- that we have a moral obligation to each other as a community. That's kind of gone.
KING: How did you react when you were bullied? What scar, if any, did it leave on you?
SCHLESSINGER: I cried. I was hurt. I would tell my parents. My father would go talk to some of the kids' parents. Sometimes, something would happen from it; sometimes not. And eventually, it just sort of faded into oblivion.
I became very, I think, centered in myself. I learned how to entertain myself, study by myself, do crafts and things by myself. I became -- it's very self-supporting and very careful about making friendships and still not that comfortable in groups. But, you know, in terms of me being hostile or angry about it, no. I mean, I don't have any -- I don't have any lingering hostilities. But I am very hostile at the parents and the kids who stand by and let this stuff happen.
I mean, we're putting those kids on trial. I hope they get convicted of something because the more we elevate the consequences, the less likely these things are going to happen.
But, Larry, you have to think about it. These kids aren't taught by us to be nasty. I mean, even "American Idol," you have judges that's saying nasty things to the people who are out there trying their best.
We have reality television. And what's the exciting part of reality television? When people are nasty to each other, and it's mean -- so much of what you hear on radio --
KING: Yes, good point.
SCHLESSINGER: -- on television, in music and on the Internet is all mean. We have raised our children to believe mean is the norm. We really shouldn't be surprised. But we have to stop it.
KING: Good point. As we know, not all teens behave badly. Case in point is our "CNN Hero of the Week," a big-hearted bookworm who helps abused and homeless children.
Mackenzie Bearup lives with an agonizing and incurable disease but spends her time easing the pain of others by sharing her secret for relief, reading. And she's only 16. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MACKENZIE BEARUP, CNN HERO: I was in the fifth grade when I hurt my knee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready?
BEARUP: Yes, I'm ready.
When something touches it, it's like a bomb goes off in my knee. The only thing able to get my mind off the pain was reading.
Do you guys like to read?
My pediatrician told me about a home for abused children. Any child being in pain like this, they need something and something that I knew that helped me was books.
Thank you so much for donating.
My original goal was to get 300 books. Before I knew it, I have 3,000 books. My total right now is 38,000 books. And I've delivered books to libraries and reading rooms in 27 different shelters in six states. Take as many books as you want.
If one child finds the love of reading through books that I've given them, and then that will turn their life around entirely. I really think that reading can do that for someone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Mackenzie's given nearly 40,000 books to kids in six states. Mackenzie, we applaud you. You're a terrific kid.
Got a hero of your own? Nominate him or her at CNN.com/heroes.
Back with more moments with Dr. Laura after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARBY O'BRIEN, PRINCE FAMILY SPOKESMAN: The word "bullying" is probably not even accurate. I mean, really, when you look at what happened with her, it's persecution. I mean, this thing was a hate crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We have a Twitter, a tweet question for Dr. Laura. "Should schools reinstate corporal punishment? Should teachers be given more power in circumstances like this?"
SCHLESSINGER: More power but not corporal punishment. I think these kids should be shamed.
I remember when I was in college and a teacher caught a kid cheating, took him by the hand where he had answers to questions and took him to the front of the classroom and shamed him in front of anybody. I doubt he ever did that again.
Teachers are terrified. Our kids are very spoiled. I mean, they get computers in kindergartens. They get iPods and cell phones and -- all the way through. And, you know, when they graduate high school, they get sent to Aruba.
I mean, we have just such spoiled-brat kids who have foul mouths. They sexually act out. Our kids are out of control.
And the teachers don't have control because the superintendents and the principals don't back them because parents sue instead of taking on parental responsibility for their arrogant children.
KING: Another tweet. "How can we prevent our children from becoming bullies?"
SCHLESSINGER: One of the things you can do to prevent your kid from becoming a bully is when they act out in any inappropriate way of dominating or humiliating, that their consequences are severe. And so many parents -- I tell you, I tell parents, you know, the prior generation or the one before that would take the kid behind the barn with a switch. And you're asking me if you should take away their cell phone? That's the biggest consequence you can think of?
So, parents have to take back the responsibility of being leaders and parents, for God's sake.
KING: By the way, Laura, have you got another book coming? You always have a book coming.
SCHLESSINGER: Yes, I got a book coming out in September. Lord, I had fun writing this one. It's called --
KING: It is what?
SCHLESSINGER: -- "Surviving Shark Attacks on Land." It's a book about dealing with betrayal and revenge. I can't wait for you to talk to me when that one comes out.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: You take off on Harvey Mackay's "Swim With the Sharks." That was a business book. This is a book about a different kind of shark.
SCHLESSINGER: The person who betrays and undermines, and how you deal with betrayal and revenge. Revenge is mostly sweet in your mind. It's not that sweet when you execute it.
KING: Yes, you're right. Thanks, Laura. Always good seeing you.
SCHLESSINGER: Thank you.
KING: Dr. Laura Schlessinger, the internationally-syndicated radio host, best-selling author and a good conversation. But a terrible topic, bullying.
Jesse Ventura is here tomorrow night.
Here now is Anderson Cooper. It's time for "AC 360" -- Anderson.
