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CNN Larry King Live
Sarah Ferguson Bribery Scandal; Lindsay Lohan to Wear Alcohol Detection Device
Aired May 24, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY KING, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a royal scandal. Sarah Ferguson is caught on tape selling access to her ex-husband, Prince Andrew.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, NEWS OF THE WORLD)
SARAH FERGUSON, DUCHESS OF YORK: If we want to do a big deal with Andrew, then that's the big one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do, of course. OK, no, of course. So you need 500,000 pounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The princess is sorry and under financial stress. The tabloid that tricked her says she's shameless. Will Buckingham Palace bail the duchess our or brush her off?
Plus, Lindsay Lohan is in court just days after dodging an arrest warrant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you understand and accept the conditions in your bail?
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: Yes, your honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Can this troubled starlet save herself and her career?
Then a shocking footnote to the tragic story of actress Brittany Murphy, her husband Simon Monjack has died. Brittany's mom discovered both bodies. She and Monjack gave their last interview to me.
All next on LARRY KING LIVE.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Good evening. Fighting a bit of a head cold but we're winning the battle.
Sarah Ferguson, the former wife of Britain's Prince Andrew is in tabloid trouble again. The "News of the World" has released video clips of a meeting between her and one of its reporters who is posing as a wealthy businessman. On the tape, Ferguson apparently offers to sell access to her royal ex-spouse who serves as Britain's special envoy for international trade and investment.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: Five hundred thousand pounds, when you can, to me -- open doors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be Prince Andrew?
FERGUSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a deal?
FERGUSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I've got to give you $40,000.
FERGUSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which I've got now as a deposit. Which is in my safe. But how am I going to give it to you? I haven't got a bag, can't put it in a bag can we?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining us to talk about what happened is Robert Jobson, the royal editor for "News of the World."
How did you set this up?
ROBERT JOBSON, ROYAL EDITOR, NEWS OF THE WORLD: What's important here to remember, Larry, is that there was a prima facie case for mounting an investigation. There is a royal businessman that we learned was being dealt with by Sarah Ferguson in this way. She -- this was the modus operandi that she was using.
So, therefore, we decided through our investigations and to infiltrate her close circle of associates to basically find out what was going on, to discover the truth. We did that. We then had a meeting with her at the Mark Hotel in New York where she then set out the terms and conditions of what she wanted to, in this cash for access situation, to get access to Prince Andrew.
So, therefore, when we eventually did get her in London to film, those videos that you saw there, which I think are shameless and damning, she actually asked for the specific amount of money. She had set up the deal. So, there were a lot of questions of entrapment. This is a proper investigation that proves without doubt that she was offering her ex-husband without his knowledge for sale.
KING: All right. It is Robert, an embarrassment. It is not a crime, is it?
JOBSON: No. But what it is, is a serious breech of trust to her ex-husband. I think that's without doubt. And what she is doing, which I think is damning is she's jeopardizing the integrity of British trade because, of course, Prince Andrew has a very important job as especially representative for trade and investment.
A lot of money -- British taxpayers' money -- is spent on his expenses as he goes about that job. And he had no knowledge of what was going on.
But the very fact that she is meeting not only a real businessman prior to this, which we can't name for legal reasons, but a man that she also barely checked out for security reasons at all, and then he's selling access to him, suggests that that pretty soon news that Prince Andrew was for sale would spread amongst the business community. And that cannot be good for the integrity of British trade.
KING: Yes.
JOBSON: And I think that is damning.
KING: You released excerpts of the tape, why not the whole tape?
JOBSON: Obviously, with any situation like this, we release excerpts of the tape. I mean, we picked the most important bits and showed them out there. The fact is it's just so shameless, so damning. We're not doing anything other than exposing the truth here.
Even some of our fiercest critics of this type of journalism in Britain, even Professor Roy Greenslade who has criticized us in the past has written today that it's totally legitimate and the right thing to do. So, I really can't see how anyone can defend her behavior. It is simply shameless and it's brazen breach of trust.
I don't feel sorry for her one iota. I thought about this long and hard. But I do feel sorry for the majesty, the queen. Sarah Ferguson claims that she respects the majesty, the queen. Well, this is a strange works showing that.
KING: Sarah Ferguson has released a statement on this incident. It says in part, "I very deeply regret the situation and the embarrassment caused. It's true my financial situation is under stress. However, that's no excuse for a serious lapse in judgment and I'm very sorry that this has happened. I can confirm that the Duke of York was not aware or involved in any of the discussion that's occurred."
Robert Jobson remains with us. Joining us from London is Robert Lacey, the long-time royal watcher and best-selling biographer and historian. His books include, "Majesty, Royal and Monarch: The Life and Reign of Elizabeth II."
Also joining us, Countess LuAnn de Lesseps, one of the stars of Bravo's "Real Housewives of New York" and the author of "Class with the Countess: How to Live with Elegance and Flair." We should mention, she knows Sarah Ferguson personally.
Robert Lacey, was this a good get by "News of the World"?
ROBERT LACEY, ROYAL HISTORIAN: Well, it was a good get for "News of the World." I think this is a very cruel national sport that the "News of the World" has developed. And I must say, if someone slapped down $40,000 in front of me and said, "How about a half million just to put me in touch with your husband," I'm not sure I wouldn't be tempted. I mean, It's entrapment.
And I feel sorry for Sarah, especially since she has come straightforward and confessed and admitted it, and says she's done wrong. I do not think it damages the royal family very greatly. She's always been the called jester of the family. The newspapers are very happy since her first appearance on the public scene to play her up as a lightweight fringe character and, you know, to suddenly suggest that she is damaging Britain's trade prospect.
I was with Prince Andrew this evening as it happens at Clarence House. He was doing a fantastic job with Saudi businessmen, meeting them, talking to them. He's the man enormously respected. And I actually think that this is going to help his profile in the world and that when he goes to some country abroad, he's going to be that much more well-known and more business will be created.
KING: I'm going to ask the countess to make a comment. But, first, let's look at another excerpt from the "News of the World's" video involving Sarah Ferguson and a reporter posing as a businessman seeking a royal connection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: If we want to do a big deal with Andrew, then that's the big one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do. Of course. OK, no, of course. So you need 500,000 in pounds.
FERGUSON: But that's in wire transfer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That has to be in wire transfer, I mean, obviously.
FERGUSON: That's a wire transfer that's completely above board. And that goes straight to wire transfer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do we send that to?
FERGUSON: You send it to the bank account that I tell you to send I to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you give me the bank account details, I'll arrange that, no problem at all.
FERGUSON: Then that, is then like then you open up all the channels whatever you need, whatever you want, and then that's what and then you meet Andrew and that's fine. And that's when you really open up whatever you want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Countess, she is a friend of yours. What do you make of this?
COUNTESS LUANN DE LESSEPS, KNOWS SARAH FERGUSON: I think that she had a little too much red wine there. I think she was acting out of desperation. I think she used poor judgment.
And I think that not asking for credentials was quite astonishing. I know Fergie. We've had lunch together. We've had dinners together.
And I'm just amazed that she would behave this way. It just goes to show you that money can buy you contacts but it can't buy you integrity. That's why I tell my son, money can't buy you class.
KING: What does Buckingham Palace say about all of this? We'll tell you that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back.
We have another clip from the "News of the World's" hidden camera sting of Sarah Ferguson. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: And, as Andrew said, listen, if he's going to be kind enough to want to play, then Andrew will play.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
FERGUSON: And he says let's play, we'll play, as long as it's nothing to do with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I understood it completely, understood exactly where you are coming from.
FERGUSON: YES. Because if there's anything near him --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want get anybody in trouble or just --
FERGUSON: But you will be his friend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Great.
FERGUSON: I will listen to the friendship talk between you two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. OK.
FERGUSON: You two talk.
UNIIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
FERGUSON: I listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
FERGUSON: And I activate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
FERGUSON: It's nothing to do with him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Buckingham Palace has issued a statement on Prince Andrew's behalf. It says, "The Duke of York categorically denies any knowledge of any meeting or conversation between the Duchess of York and the 'News of the World' journalist."
All right. Robert Jobson, Robert Lacey says that this is obvious entrapment. How do you respond?
JOBSON: It's not entrapment. What it is, a proper investigation set about by the "News of the World" because she had done this before with a previous real businessman. It's a proper investigation. This is the only way that it can be carried out to prove this was going on.
But I would like to come back to one of the points which I find a farcical, to suggest that this is actually improved Prince Andrew's reputation on the world stage. I interviewed Prince Andrew about -- in February for the "News of the World" newspaper.
And he takes that job extremely seriously. He's passionate about it. And what he does, he goes on the world stage.
But what she's doing in this shameless betrayal of him is she is effectively leading people to believe that he is for hire. That is, of course, damaging the integrity of the British trade. And, of course, it's important. It's quite ludicrous to say that Sarah Ferguson, in this betrayal, is actually improving his image abroad. Nonsense.
DE LESSEPS: Well, I --
KING: Robert Lacey, you may respond. Hold on, Countess. Let Robert respond then you go.
Robert?
DE LESSEPS: OK.
LACEY: Well, I wasn't being entirely serious. Obviously, it is not good that Fergie is trying to sell his name. But I think this is getting entirely out -- you know, blown out of proportion. This will be forgotten in a week's time.
You know, 10 years ago we were all getting upset because Prince Charles said he wanted to be a Tampax inside Camilla. Now, they're a happy married couple. We accept it all.
This all part of the argey bargey of our beloved royal family. It's what keeps us all in business, let's face it, Larry, including Robert. And I don't think we should get too hot under the collar about it.
KING: Countess, you're going to say?
DE LESSEPS: Yes, I was going to Robert -- does the prince really know nothing about this? Why was she so confidently say that he's willing to play? You know, they still live together. I believe. They say they're the closest divorced couple. So, I find it hard to believe that the prince knew nothing.
KING: What do you think, Robert Jobson? What do you think?
JOBSON: There has to be in that. You say you know her very well. I mean, I couldn't possibly comment on. The reality is, we do not have any evidence suggest that Prince Andrew was involved in this in any way.
DE LESSEPS: I know, but when you look at the tape --
JOBSON: And the fact that he's issued a statement -- sorry -- if he's issued a statement from Buckingham Palace categorically denying that involvement, then we have to believe that.
DE LESSEPS: Well, or is she trying to protect him? Or is she trying to protect him?
KING: One at a time.
DE LESSEPS: All right. Larry, just want to ask.
JOBSON: I mean, by saying what you're saying, you're suggesting that Prince Andrew is involved in that. And I would say --
(CROSSTALK)
DE LESSEPS: Well, I don't know. I'm just -- you know, I'm here to talk about it. It's a question that I had for you. And I wondered what you thought about it.
JOBSON: I have no evidence to suggest that Prince Andrew was involved and has any knowledge of this. You know, I've met him on several occasions. I interviewed him in February. He's an honorable man. I think that this behavior by his ex-wife will probably put his patience and his respect for her into the very limits. I mean, he's been putting her up in his house and actually looking after her. I mean, one very important point is the last Duchess of York was the majesty, Queen Elizabeth, the queen mother. That is a title she had.
And I just find this astonishing that people are defending the Duchess of York for this behavior. She let down her country. She sold her --
KING: All right. Let her --
JOBSON: And she sold the integrity of the British trade down the river. I find it astonishing, actually.
DE LESSEPS: Well, I find it astonishing as well. I just find it astonishing also that nobody else was aware this was happening, that she would feel so confident and secure in what she was saying about the relationship that these two people would have.
I've met her before. Like I said, I met her girls. She's a wonderful mother to her children. She raised these children very well. And I find it hard to believe that she went in there alone. I really do.
KING: All right. Let me get a break. The duchess, by the way, has survived scandal in the past. Will she recover from this one? We'll get some answers when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FERGUSON: He can't work there. He can't work anywhere, because he's the prince of England.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, but his job is trade, isn't it? Isn't it his job?
FERGUSON: Yes, it is, but he meets the most amazing people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously.
FERGUSON: And he just throws them my way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He throws them your way, fantastic. Well, and you them my way.
FERGUSON: Yes. But we -- I've never said that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I've understood it.
FERGUSON: Yes. And that is the key to him. Because as long as, if anybody ever, ever, never ever, ever, he never does accept a penny for anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, of course not, no.
FERGUSON: No, no. he does not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. I know.
FERGUSON: He does not and will not and he is completely whiter than white.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Joining us now from London is CNN correspondent, Atika Shubert.
What's the reaction over there, Atika?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really ranged on the streets today. We asked a few people. And it ranged from one man saying he was completely outraged that Fergie should be stripped of whatever remaining royal privileges she has. To another woman who said, you know, this was just another sting operation by "News of the World" and this will blow over tomorrow and people will forget it.
There wasn't a lot of sympathy -- it has to be said for Sarah Ferguson. There hasn't been for quite some time now here with a lot of Londoners. But this may have been the final straw.
KING: Any political fallout, talk of any investigation at all, Atika?
SHUBERT: Not yet. You know, again, it's that -- it doesn't seem like she's done anything particularly illegal. It just seems to have been very embarrassing and obviously looks quite vulgar on the video, her gleefully accepting all of this $40,000 in cold hard cash. So, no, no investigation, so far.
KING: Thank you, Atika.
Robert Lacey, do you admit that the "News of the World" did effectively what they do here, they got a good story?
LACEY: They got a great story. And, you know, going back to the point I was arguing about with Robert, my point is simply that a week ago, there were very few people in the world knew that Prince Andrew was Britain's trade ambassador. Now, lots of people do.
It's a very unfortunate way of being found out. But I'm just pointing out that at the end of day, this may not prove to be the great tragedy that it has been. And at least the woman having made a terrible mistake, has fessed up honestly and now, we'll have to look to the future.
I, myself, hope there will be some sort of reconciliation between her and Andrew. It will be a terrible mistake if the royal family were now to cast her into outer darkness. A lot of this trouble has come from something we haven't discussed, her reporting divorce settlement. The fact she's got nothing to live on. It was a great mistake for the royal family to cast her adrift like that. And I think that she should now welcome her into the fold, show compassion, because the alternative to that is more of this and more trouble in the future.
KING: Countess, have you talked to her? Or do you plan to call her?
DE LESSEPS: No, I haven't spoken to her but I plan on contacting her. And I think you're absolutely right. I think, you know, how much did Di get? How much did Fergie get?
You know, I don't think she saw nearly as much money as Di did or that she deserves the same amount of money. That's not the point. They're part of the royal family. And she should be taken care of.
KING: And, Robert Jobson, you have no sympathy for her at all.
JOBSON: I do have some sympathy. But I think the last two comments were quite ridiculous. The fact is that Duchess of York has been trading on her name and her royal connections for years. She's traded cash for many, many years. She's made millions of pounds in her royal connections and she's blown a lot.
Why on earth why we should feel sorry for her? Because she mismanaged a business? It really is ludicrous.
There are people -- she gets $15,000, about $20,000 a year. There are people in the north of England and places around England that live on that, whole families. It's time we stop feeling sorry for the Duchess of York. If she behaves in this fashion, she gets everything she deserves.
KING: All right. We shall see where this goes. Thank you all very much.
When we come back, a judge laid down the law with Lindsay Lohan today. Can the troubled actress save herself and her career? We'll discuss it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Lindsay Lohan was in court in Beverly Hills earlier today. She was supposed to show up last week but had claimed she was stuck in France because her passport had been stolen. The actress has been on probation since August of 2007 after pleading guilty to misdemeanor drug charges and no contest to several driving charges.
Here to talk about what happened: Tony Potts for correspondent for "Access Hollywood." He was at the courthouse for today's hearing. And Lisa Bloom, she is the attorney for Lindsey's father, Michael Lohan.
What happened, Tony, today?
TONY POTTS, CORRESPONDENT, ACCESS HOLLYWOOD: Well, today, she went in and the judge was upset because she actually, you know, wasn't here before. And the judge, she -- what she did is said, you know, I'm on vacation next week but I'm going to take off one day of my vacation. I'm going to be there.
To me, it feels like, Larry, that she's actually the only parent that Lindsay's actually needed for a long time. She's going to hold her feet.
KING: The judge.
POTTS: Yes, the judge. She's going to hold her feet to the fire, Judge Revel. And she's going to say, you know what? I don't give -- I don't care about your excuses. I don't care what you say. Be here on time.
By the way, she was late again today. OK? She made her way two hours previous and didn't show up this pastime. If it were me, Larry, I would have camped out overnight and I have been there at 5:30 in the morning with like, you know, bagels for her.
KING: What was her demeanor?
POTTS: You know, she looked bloated to me. I've known her for a long time. She looked a little bit of a mess, to be honest with you.
A really low cut blouse. Kind of like, well, hey, it's 59 degrees in Beverly Hills. It's cold for us here. Wear a sweater for God sakes. Come in and be appropriate.
But, you know, in the courtroom, she rolled her eyes a couple times if the judge asked her if everything was OK, if she was -- you know, how she was going to -- if the terms of the agreement were OK today. And you can see right there. I mean, she does look a little bit like a mess to me.
KING: Lisa, you represent her father. What's his reaction to all of this? You have spoken to him?
LISA BLOOM, MICHAEL LOHAN'S ATTORNEY: I have. You know, there are no winners here. But this was a small victory for Michael Lohan because we asked the court specifically for the controls that the judge imposed today. The judge imposed random drug testing. We specifically asked for that. Nobody else has asked for that.
The prosecution wanted incarceration. The defense wanted nothing. Michael wanted stricter controls.
I do have to take issue with you saying that she doesn't have a parent. Lindsay does call her father from time to time, texts him time to time. She's not happy with him right now because he's asked for stricter controls on her. He doesn't take her out partying. So, she's not happy.
POTTS: I would say a parental figure -- I say parental figure though. And a parental figure in a long sense of the term, not the last five years, not last 20 years. I'm saying a parental figure that she could actually really rely on in a sense and --
BLOOM: Well, here's there for her now. He's ready, willing and able to help her. He is researching rehab behind the scenes. He wants what's best for her.
KING: What's the result of what happened today? Now she has to what?
BLOOM: Now, there are stricter controls, Larry. She's ordered, no alcohol at all. A scram bracelet, which is an alcohol detection device, and random testing.
POTTS: It's 100 percent, by the way. And monitors every 30 minutes and sends a signal back.
KING: If you wear a bracelet and you have a drink, and what?
BLOOM: It's an anklet that sends a report to the court immediately that she's consumed alcohol. The court gets that, report immediately. Now, she's in violation.
KING: And what's the penalty for that?
BLOOM: And now, there's a hearing. Potentially, she goes to jail.
POTTS: Yes, absolutely.
KING: And if she has a drink?
BLOOM: That's correct.
POTTS: By the way, the judge did not let her leave until that was actually put on. It was delayed quite a bit. She didn't leave until I think it was 10:45. They actually put it on her, the scram on her. And then she left with it on. I think the judge didn't want to take any chance. It usually has to be on within 24 hours.
KING: If she is an alcoholic, though, that scram is going to go off, isn't it?
BLOOM: That --
KING: It's a disease.
BLOOM: I'll tell you something else, Larry, that nobody else is talking about. It doesn't detect prescription medications. Michael has been very concerned that she has been abusing prescription drugs. The random drug tests are not going to test for that probably. The alcohol detection device certainly won't test for that.
POTTS: Let me ask you this, why wouldn't they test for that?
BLOOM: Well, it depends on what is ordered by the court. We don't know. We haven't seen that order specifically. But often only street drugs are tested for. POTTS: Larry, if you walk out of the courtroom today -- people are talking about well, is she not taking this seriously -- if you walk out today and you look down tonight and that scram is on your ankle, that tells you you're screwing up. It's time to really face the music.
KING: Last week, Lindsay blamed her estranged father for the disappearance of her Passport. She claimed she had been set up. She spoke about the issue yesterday in an interview with the website HollywoodTV. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOHAN: My passport didn't just go missing. My passport was stolen out of my room, which was very clear -- amongst other things a piece of jewelry and items that were in my possession, or so I thought.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What makes you believe your father had anything to do with your passport going missing?
LOHAN: I don't have any connection with my father. He has a very -- you know, his past is -- he's a very erratic person and he's a convicted felon. I try to stay as far away from him as I can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: what straightens her out, Tony? What -- first of all, if she's an alcoholic, that's an illness.
POTTS: Absolutely. I think you have to hit rock bottom. I think you have to get in treatment. I think you have to get in treatment for 90 days, not just 30.
KING: Go somewhere?
POTTS: Yes. When I saw her today in court, it reminded me of Robert Downey Jr., back in the day, in the Malibu courtroom, right. He is so talented. You ask anybody in Hollywood, Lindsay is very talented. I like her. I think she's great, very talented, smart gal. Robert's very smart.
KING: He straightened his life out?
POTTS: He certainly did. He did it with the help of Hollywood insiders, you know, kind of below the belt so to speak, below the beltway. Mel Gibson stepped in and helped him. I think Lindsay, if she had a mentor in the '40s, who has been there, done that, Larry, and said, I'll help you, kid, I think that might help.
BLOOM: Legally, the best thing for her is to go to rehab immediately without the judge ordering it. If she checked -- it was not ordered, but, Larry, if she checks herself in voluntarily between now and the next hearing date of July 6th, the judge will look very, very favorably on that. It's the best thing she can do. If I was representing her, which I'm not, I would tell her go immediately. It probably could save you from going to jail.
POTTS: Look, this is going to sound crazy, but I hope she takes a drink. She won't get drunk. It will hit the scram like that. She will violate it and she'll have to go in. That's what I hope. I hope something happens where it forces her to go in, not in a tragic way.
BLOOM: The problem is incarceration doesn't do anything good for addict addicts.
(CROSS TALK)
BLOOM: The last time she went, 84 minutes. She was in jail for 84 minutes, Larry. To Lindsay, I think the system is a joke. Frankly, to many minor offenders, it is a joke. What good does it do to incarcerate?
POTTS: I hope the scram goes off and she goes to rehab, not jail.
KING: We'll have more experts discuss it. Addiction expert Dr. Drew Pinsky weighs in on Lindsay Lohan, with others, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Joining us now, Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of "Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew" and author of "The Mirror Effect," Robin Sax, the former deputy DA of Los Angeles County, and Mark Geragos, criminal defense attorney.
Superior Court Judge Marcia Rebel delayed her own vacation to deal with Lindsay Lohan today. She appeared to cut the actress some slack in the past. Today, some tough new conditions. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REVEL: She will, as a condition of remaining out on bond, drink no alcohol, have a scram device put on within 24 hours of today's proceedings. I submit to random drug testing at the rate of one per week. I give you the name and number that she needs to call today to set that up. She must attend all of her alcohol classes as scheduled, unless the class interferes with a random drug test. The random drug test will take priority. That is the only reason she could cancel a scheduled appearance. And those will be the conditions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: All right. Mark, are they being overly rough on her?
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: In this sense, the prosecutor wanted jail time. Obviously, the defense does not want jail time. The judge, I guess, feels like she's trying to help. The problem with this is -- and I'm sure Shawn's worst nightmare is it's a setup for a probation violation. If you don't think that your client can comply with this, sometimes you're better off taking any -- almost any other alternative.
The scram device is not an easy thing to deal with. If you fail, you're going to know. You can't take it off. And that's a problem.
ROBIN SAX, FMR. LOS ANGELES DEPUTY DISTRIC ATTORNEY: So the translation here is Mark is saying the judge was actually nicer to her than most people think. Most people think she was being tough. But she could have given the jail sentence which in the lot of ways, as Mark is saying, is easier.
KING: With DUIs?
SAX: She is facing 180 days max. She did 84 minutes the first time. With the over-crowding here --
GERAGOS: With the 84 minutes, she's got a lot more credits than the 84 minutes. That was her actual time.
SAX: Correct.
GERAGOS: She was sentenced to more time than that. She has more credits than that. This -- like I say, unfortunately, this is a setup for a PV.
KING: If alcoholism is an addiction, isn't that thing going to go off?
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "CELEBRITY REHAB": I think Lisa Bloom made a great point, is that if she's taking prescription medication, she won't have the same drive to use alcohol or elicit drugs. It is very easy for people in Hollywood to get their hands on prescribed medication by doctors who really don't understand the potential of what it dose for the addictive process.
In terms of how this is going to go down, though, it's not going to be drug and alcohol use. She's going to miss the alcohol classes. I don't know if you saw what flashed across her face when she said you have to be at every one of those classes; the only excuse is your death or a drug test. She is going to miss those classes.
KING: Why would she miss them? Why is she self destructive?
PINSKY: She's an addict and she's in a disease. She is not really in her normal state. She's not thinking clearly. She doesn't have the usual priorities that the rest of us do. She can't comply with these things.
KING: So, Robin, shouldn't we have sympathy then?
SAX: You can see exactly what Dr. Drew is saying, that she isn't taking -- she isn't owning this illness. She's not taking responsibility here. I mean even still today, after everything that's gone down this weekend, you think Lindsay Lohan would make it to court on time?
GERAGOS: I've been there when they have these things where they say somebody is not in court on time. A lot of times what you don't know is they arranged it with the sheriff. The sheriff says call me ten minutes before, or we're not ready for you yet. And they're in constant contact.
SAX: What about going to France?
GERAGOS: If she was late legitimately, the judge would have excoriated her. You've been in Marcia Revel's court. Marcia doesn't tolerate people coming in late. I've had her actually call me in other courtrooms and say where the heck are you?
SAX: What about wearing that shirt on television when she knows she's coming to court and not being conservative and taking pride and ownership in the courtroom?
GERAGOS: Maybe she thought she was going to be next door in Judge Fox's courtroom.
KING: Lindsay has already made several trips to rehab. In her interview yesterday with Hollywood TV, she dismissed the idea that she needs to go back. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are prepared to go into rehab?
LOHAN: I -- I don't see why I would even have to do that, considering I've been in compliance with everything that occurs when you're in the court system for two DUIs. You go through the process of going to classes and there are a million other things that go with that. And I don't see why that would even be a question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Drew, she's not your patient. Do you think she's in denial?
PINSKY: Oh, yeah. She's had good treatment. She participated actively. And then just -- she wore a scram before. She did it voluntarily. Right in the middle of that is when she decided she didn't want to do anything with treatment or recovery. She wasn't done yet. Many addicts have to go back and try it themselves. Now she's having more and more and more consequences. The question is how far down is she going to have to go before she's willing?
GERAGOS: She's not your patient. If she was your patient, it would be your concern. If she's your client, as a lawyer, and she's telling you that, you know, there is something to be said for. That you don't have to engage somebody in the treatment. You don't have to tell them to go into the treatment.
SAX: Don't you care about --
GERAGOS: well, it's not a matter of caring. I don't know that I would --
KING: Lawyers and caring?
GERAGOS: Yeah. That's me. I'm touchy feely. The last thing I want to do is set her up for a probation violation. I think that's what Shawn is concerned about. This has all the makings of somebody's going to come back, can't comply.
SAX: He sends her to jail. That what he does.
GERAGOS: I don't see jail. I think that if you're going to do something, you calculate how much time she's already done and deal with it in terms of rehab.
PINSKY: I agree with. I hope that's what happens.
KING: Why doesn't her talent help her?
PINSKY: Her talent? That's usually the hindrance. My patients, that's the part that's so difficult. They, first of all, feel entitled. They feel special.
KING: Talent is a negative here?
PINSKY: Always. They feel like they got something special. Addicts need to be just humble human beings with a disease they need to take care of. The other thing is it rushes them back to work. Celebrities and talented people get back to work way prematurely.
You mentioned Robert Downey earlier. This was the thing that kept taking him out. He had to leave his employ, forget about work for two or three years and focus on his recovery. And now he's a successful man.
KING: We'll be back with more right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BRAEK)
KING: Dr. Pinsky, what do you think is going to happen here?
PINSKY: I agree with Mark. I think she's going to, unfortunately, violate her parole. She's going to fall down on one of these things she has to do. I hope it's just that she misses a class, not that she uses something dangerous. I hope they send her to rehab.
This poor girl, she just needs treatment. She really does. Something horrible is going to happen to her if she doesn't take care of this problem.
GERAGOS: I think it's, like I say, a built in probation violation. I hope it isn't. She looked -- I don't know her, but she didn't look real happy today. I can't say that I blame her. I mean, you know, if what she said is true, and by all accounts it could be, she had a legitimate cause for not being there. And, you know, her life is -- you know, people say it's a mess and she's a mess and everything else. She's also got -- she's in the eye of a hurricane. She's over there. She's trying to do her work and everything else. She's got everybody kind of barking in her ear at all times. And it's -- I have a great deal of sympathy for her. KING: Do prosecutors have sympathy?
SAX: Prosecutors do have sympathy. I mean we have sympathy for victims all the time although --
KING: Who's the victim here? It could have been someone on the street.
SAX: It could have been someone on the street. And she is her own victim.
GERAGOS: We have a hypothetical victim.
SAX: We have a duty as a prosecutor to represent all the people of the state of California. And that means protecting people from themselves.
GERAGOS: Lindsay Lohan is part of the people of California. Have sympathy for her.
SAX: We are.
PINSKY: It sounds funny me saying this, but people are within their rights in this state to use drugs until they die. And the fact is that the probability of somebody getting well that is way into their disease before they have sufficient consequence to motivate them to get well is very low. So she's got to go wherever she's got to go before she's willing to get well. The fearful thing for me, as a clinician, is what horrible is going to happen to her before she does get better?
GERAGOS: I agree with. I don't understand why it's no alcohol. I understand no driving. But why it is you have to go all the way? If she wants to drink, let her drink. If she's not going to accept it -- somebody telling what you to do is certainly not going to get you to the point where you -- it's never going to happen.
PINSKY: That's right.
GERAGOS: So this is a great -- I guess the motivation is great. But it's never going to -- it's never going to work.
SAX: The last 18 months she could be drinking. This is the probation violation on top of probation violation.
GERAGOS: She's not driving. Who cares?
PINSKY: The one thing, Mark, is sometimes when people stop using, they sort of come to a different level of awareness and their judgment comes back in. They find motivation. So hopefully that happens.
GERAGOS: Take a look at her.
SAX: -- lines on a table. Is that OK, too?
GERAGOS: Yes, she was in France.
KING: Thank you, Dr. Drew Pinsky, Robin Sax and Mark Geragos. The Traveling circus will be back next week on this program.
Time now to take another look at another top moment in LARRY KING LIVE history. This one is from 1988, one of my favorite interviews ever, with one of my favorite people ever, chairman of the board, ole blue eyes himself, Francis Albert. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Chairman of the board is our guest. This is LARRY KING LIVE in Washington. We'll be right back with Frank Sinatra after this.
First, that was a mistake. I was so nervous. You'll never know this. He's my hero. I was in New York. Nothing like Frank. Hard to get. Doesn't do interviews. Once you got him, one of the great interviews.
FRANK SINATRA, SINGER: A good question can open up doors in my mind that I would never think of discussing with anybody. I don't mind questions that border on maybe a difficult way to answer, because I try to find my way out of it
KING: It's hard for the first two minutes to interview someone you're a real admirer of. Then it gets right down into it. It's who, what, when, where, why.
SINATRA: Everybody's legendary. Everybody's really a legend. There are no normal people in the world. Everybody would be a legend.
KING: You know you've gone beyond.
SINATRA: I'm gone beyond.
KING: You're in another ballpark.
SINATRA: Yeah, I agree with that. There's a very good chance I should have gotten out by now. But I enjoy it
KING: I thought he was the greatest talent this country has ever produced as a singer. A great actor, a terrific guy. And a complicated guy
It's fun being someone else.
SINATRA: Of course it's fun because you can do things you can't do if you're yourself. You know what I mean? I was trying to keep a little tenderness in it somewhere, so he was not a hangman
KING: You were very conscious of that.
SINATRA: Yes.
KING: What you want in an interview is passion, sense of humor, ability to explain what they do, and a chip on their shoulder. You got all four.
Is there still a lot of that little boy in you?
SINATRA: Yeah, sure. You never lose that. I think if I lost it, it would be all -- everything would be over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: You can pick your top five moments at CNN.com/LarryKing. While your out there, enter our sweepstakes, a chance to meet me, watch the show and we'll have dinner.
Next week's going to be huge. Lady Gaga, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, just a few of the big names for our big anniversary week starting Monday, May 31st. Details on Brittany Murphy's husband's death when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The widower of Brittany Murphy has died. Simon Monjack was found dead in the same Hollywood home where the 32-year-old actress fatally collapsed in December. "People Magazine" is covering this story. You can read the latest about it on People.com.
Joining us to talk about it J.D. Heyman, the executive editor of "People Magazine." What happened?
J.D. HEYMAN, "PEOPLE MAGAZINE": Well, I think it's going to, you know, take a little while to figure out exactly what happened and when. What we do know is that Sharon Murphy found Simon dead in the bedroom that he had once shared with Brittany Murphy. As you remember, Larry, that is where she died as well. And now what is happening is the family is trying to make funeral arrangements for Simon. He has to be buried rather quickly. He was Jewish and that's very important to his family. And they are trying to make sense of what is an unbelievable tragedy again for this family.
KING: Going to be an autopsy?
HEYMAN: Yes. Yes, there will be. They're waiting on that and then there will be a funeral after that.
KING: A month or so before her death, Brittany left the production of a film in Puerto Rico. Rumors swirled about her the circumstances of her exit and about Simon's illness on the flight home. He talked to me about it. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: On that flight back from Puerto Rico, you got sick, right?
SIMON MONJACK, DECEASED: I had a heart attack.
KING: What?
MONJACK: I had a heart attack, yeah. KING: How are you now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's --
MONJACK: I'm --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- not doing too well.
MONJACK: I don't know if I'm heart broken or heart broken.
KING: You had a heart attack on the plane?
MONJACK: Yes. My heart stopped. There's a 911 call that says, his heart has stopped. We don't know if we can revive him
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Wouldn't it be safe to assume from that, J.D., that it was probably a heart attack?
HEYMAN: Yeah, I think that's what people believe. He was not a well man, as he told you and he told me on several occasions. He had some serious health problems. His heart was not strong. He was also, you know, clearly devastated by, you know, everything that had happened, and Brittany was the center of his life. So, you know, all of those things, I think, together make for a very, very sad story.
It's really, I think, even those people who knew him are taken aback, though, by this turn of events and how quickly everything has happened here.
KING: Simon Monjack and his mother-in-law, Sharon Murphy, sat down with me in February which tragically turned out to be their final joint interview. I asked how they were coping in the aftermath of Brittany's sudden death. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How are you holding up?
MONJACK: I don't think I am. I don't think either of us are.
SHARON MURPHY, MOTHER OF BRITTANY MURPHY: No. It's --
MONJACK: You wake up in the morning and it's like a rebirth. There's not enough time to -- your dreams, be they good or bad when you wake up -- and I reach out to touch or hold my wife, and she isn't there.
KING: Were you surprised at the public outpouring?
MONJACK: Yes.
KING: Reaction to her death was enormous.
MONJACK: It was unbelievable. And I think Brittany would have been more surprised than anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: J.D., what happens to poor Sharon Murphy now?
HEYMAN: Well, I mean, as you can see from that clip -- you know, I talked to them really, you know, not long after Brittany died -- they were incredibly close. And she was devastated by her daughter's death and really leaned on Simon for support. These were -- the three of them were sort of an incredibly close unit. And then with the loss of her, they were both sort of at a loss.
It's really going to be difficult. She has people that are helping her, that are in the house with her right now, trying to make sure she's OK. But this is quite a blow for her.
KING: Did "People" ever speculate their marriage was a sham?
HEYMAN: No. You know, I think there were lots of people -- I mean, if you mean the people -- I thought you meant "People" the magazine.
KING: Yes.
HEYMAN: No. The general public, sure, they raised questions about the marriage. Simon was aware of that. He had a sense of humor about it, to a certain degree. He understood that they were an unlikely pair, sort of, to some people. And, you know, I think he was a little bit surprised at some of the criticism that he received in the wake of her death. He didn't understand why people went after him, although he did tell me on a couple of different occasions that he thought every story needed a villain and he had been cast in that role. He was going to focus on his wife and her legacy.
And about a week ago, he called me to say he was going on a trip to Europe. He was going to take Sharon with him. And he was going to work on a book project. He seemed very upbeat. As recently as this weekend, when he was talking with his publicist about some plans for Brittany's foundation, he seemed very upbeat and ready to do that. So, everyone was shocked
KING: Sad. J.D. Heyman, executive editor of "People Magazine," thanks.
HEYMAN: Thank you, Larry.
KING: We are plum out of time. Thanks very much more joining us. Anderson Cooper is next.
