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CNN Larry King Live
Interview With Oksana Grigorieva
Aired November 17, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Oksana Grigorieva. Exclusive. Mel Gibson's ex-girlfriend will speak publicly for the first time about one of the most vicious custody battles ever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OKSANA GRIGORIEVA, MEL GIBSON'S EX-GIRLFRIEND: I was standing in the middle of the room holding the baby as Mel proceeded to enter the room and struck me twice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: She'll tell us why she loved him, why she covered up for him and why she recorded he's alleged rants.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIGORIEVA: I wanted my mother to be able to prove that if I'm dead that this is who did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It's a riveting, revealing, shocking hour, you won't hear anywhere else.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIGORIEVA: He begged, he cried. He cried on his knees. What am I supposed to do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It's next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening. Oksana Grigorieva is Mel Gibson's ex-girlfriend. They have a 1-year-old child together and they're locked in a bitter legal dispute. Mr. Gibson by way has sought a gag order to prevent any involved parties from speaking publicly about the case. The judge rejected that. Mel Gibson has never commented about the conversations.
With us as well is Martin Garbus, a well known attorney, who is the attorney for Oksana. Who by the way, her father still lives in Moscow, her mother is with her here and her father was a Russian war hero in the World War II against the Nazis. How did you meet, Mel Gibson?
GRIGORIEVA: We were introduced by a mutual friend and there were my cards on a table. And the friend took my card and put his cell phone number on my card and so Mel called me a couple of weeks later.
KING: You're a pianist, right?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes.
KING: Were you playing piano when you met him?
GRIGORIEVA: No, actually I was just at the dining table in the restaurant.
KING: So, he called you?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, he did.
KING: And you knew he was married, right?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, I did know he was married, but for nine months, you know, we were just riding together. We hardly saw each other. It was kind of like a friendship thing.
KING: So, there was no adultery or...
GRIGORIEVA: No. There was no and then he explained to me that he was very unhappy for many years and that he was in love, actually.
KING: And the romance budded.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes. I guess.
KING: Do you ever feel, Oksana, I didn't forgot Martin, we'll bring you in. Do you ever feel that you caused the break-up?
GRIGORIEVA: He explained to me over and over to me that it was not the reason that they separated. Since 2006 for sure and they were very unhappy prior to that.
KING: So, you felt no guilt.
GRIGORIEVA: No, I didn't felt any guilt, because he reassured me over and over again that his union has been finished a long time ago before I came into this and he pursued me very heavily for nine months.
KING: And you have a son, he's 13, right?
GRIGORIEVA: Thirteen.
KING: And Timothy Dalton, the actor is his father, right? And you are friendly with him, right?
GRIGORIEVA: We are great friends. Yes. He just came to baby's birthday party a week ago. KING: OK. And you have a daughter with Mel who is...
GRIGORIEVA: A 1- year- old, yes.
KING: And she is 1-year-old.
GRIGORIEVA: This year.
KING: And this whole battle is about her, right?
GRIGORIEVA: This is all about her and this is about standing up to domestic violence. This is not to be silent about domestic violence. This is a highly publicized case. Domestic violence case. And if I am silent about domestic violence, can you imagine how many other women and children that do suffer at the hand of a perpetrator and they have no chance to come here, be kindly invited by you and speak about this.
KING: So your reason for being here tonight is that?
GRIGORIEVA: Is domestic violence. This case is about domestic violence. There's also, I've just found out that in fact yesterday, that there's a large amount of hour files being leaked or sold or stolen to the -- and given to the press or sold, I don't know.
KING: Files from where?
GRIGORIEVA: Files from -- court files.
KING: Aren't court files public, Martin?
MARTIN GARBUS, GRIGORIEVA'S ATTORNEY: No. In the family, court files are sealed. They're confidential, so that the files that were leaked to an internet station were all stolen. Probably from the court and the court has ordered yesterday with an investigation of it.
KING: So, this is testimony given by your client, by Mr. Gibson, by others.
GARBUS: It's everything, it's medical documents, declarations, court opinions, transcripts. Everything it seems, let's say over 2,000 pages of documents were leaked and the district's attorney's office has started an investigation.
GRIGORIEVA: And it could be quite terrible because this whole case could turn into a gossip story rather than what's important here. It's domestic violence and Lucia is at stake.
KING: OK. Let's get into it. Radar Online posted tapes that Oksana says are accurate recordings with conversations between her and Mel Gibson. We continue to ask Gibson for a response to verify they're authenticity and so far, he's not commented. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAN: I'm really (bleeped) angry and really sad and I'm really (bleeped), I just want to (bleeped) someone or myself, do you understand? You've done this to me. I was never like this. You did it. All right? It's your fault. If something happens, be it on your (bleeped) head, you know, be on your head.
WOMAN: I didn't do anything.
MAN: You did, (bleeped), so, you're (bleeped).
WOMAN: I didn't do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: How did that come ever to be taped? How was that -- give me the circumstances, Oksana.
GRIGORIEVA: Well, January 6th this year, the beating took place. Mel actually assaulted me while I was holding the baby in my arms.
KING: At whose house?
GRIGORIEVA: It was at his house. Well, our house at that point. And I ran into my son's bedroom and told him to hide because Mel is crazy, you know, he's getting really violent. So, my son was getting ready for bed and he jumped around the bed hid behind the bed. And I was standing in the middle of the room with the baby like you know, a mother protecting her cubs. And I was standing at the middle of the room holding the baby as Mel proceeded into the room and...
KING: Struck you?
GRIGORIEVA: ...struck me twice.
KING: In front of your boy?
GRIGORIEVA: In front of my boy.
KING: Was he drunk?
GRIGORIEVA: No, he wasn't, he wasn't drunk.
KING: So, how did that lead though to the subsequent phone call and that being policed?
GRIGORIEVA: Well, he hit me and choked me in front of my son and then you know, brandished a gun at me and I left him on the 6th of January and the very following morning, the very following day, he was already apologetic, asking for apology saying, asking for a chance for us to be together. That he will be cured, he will be treated, he will be evaluated, all those words. And I was covering up for him and...
KING: You didn't report it?
GRIGORIEVA: I didn't report it. I was covering up for him and I believed him. And if somebody's asking you for a chance, you give them the chance.
KING: So, what led to the phone call?
GRIGORIEVA: The phone calls were made -- all of the phone calls that were recorded were recorded on the same night of 18 February and 18 to the 19th. He started calling me early in the evening.
KING: What was he angry about?
GRIGORIEVA: Because I left him, because I thought he's going to hit us again that evening.
KING: So, you got back, you forgave him for the first instance.
GRIGORIEVA: I forgave him in a couple of weeks time after the first, you know, severe beating that you know, he struck me twice with a fist then he was choking me while I was holding Lucia and not protecting myself. And my son witnesses everything. Then, we run towards the poll and he's been screaming and yelling and then he told us, you know, to get the F out and went to get the gun and I asked my son to get in the car and that's how we left the 6th of January and from then on, every day, he was apologizing.
KING: So, you took him back?
GRIGORIEVA: I took him, you know, we've got...
KING: And then what broke it up again?
GRIGORIEVA: He lost it again on the February 18th. Normally, it would be jealousy that kind of sets came off.
KING: He thought you were with another guy?
GRIGORIEVA: No, he didn't think that, he thought those gentlemen who brought the tree for Lucia's tree ceremony on the February 18th, asked me if Santa Lucia Fur (ph) had anything to do with Lucia and I said, yes, it's in her honor. Well, that was the report that Mel thought was not...
KING: A tree in her honor?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes. The tree wasn't her honor and well, we're there and the tree was planted that day.
KING: Is this a Russian?
GRIGORIEVA: It's Mel's thing. It's not a Russian thing, it's a nice thing I think. Yes.
KING: Does Oksana think Mel has a problem with women about racism and again, how the phone calls came to be recorded. Martin Garbus is with us as well. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Oksana and her attorney, Martin Garbus. How did they come to be taped? GRIGORIEVA: Well, before I left on February the 18th, that's actually when I did leave him. And, you know, I just took my children out of a danger zone because he threw Lucia in my arms and said, he was going to hurt her. So, I called my mother, I woke her up in the middle of, you know, Russian night. She was in Russia and I said, I'm leaving him now. She said, yes, I have to. Because my mom also witness quite a bit of a violence prior to that.
KING: So, he started to call you?
GRIGORIEVA: He started to call me. He called and called and called me and threatened my life.
KING: And you taped him?
GRIGORIEVA: No. I did not tape him until about 11:00 at night. He started to called me from 8:00. I called his assistant. I was trying to get the number of his psychologist to help him out. I was still trying desperately to help him out. I knew this is not the man who I fell in love with. This is his illness speaking because this profanity, this anger, this rage, I mean, unforgivable.
KING: So why, Oksana, did you tape him?
GRIGORIEVA: For few reasons, I started taping him around 11:00 because I thought I'm actually not going to live for the night. I'm actually not going to live for the night and nobody...
KING: He's going to come over and kill you.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, that's what he said in those tapes. If you heard them without any interruption...
KING: They were evident.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes. I mean, I have none edited and it's pretty frightening and it's completely unforgivable.
KING: So, you were taping him and you thought that you would be killed and wanted to world to hear this?
GRIGORIEVA: I wanted my mother to be able to prove that if I'm dead that this is who did it. Because she already witnessed that too, you know, these certain violence back in December that he showed quite a bit of a violence. But another, another reason was, it's very strange. The victims, I think they're really decent human beings, because they're trying to -- they cover up perpetrators. They're trying to help them. In the back of my mind, I thought, if I don't get killed tonight, then I'd like him to hear what he sounds like...
KING: Is it legal to tape a phone conversation, Martin?
GARBUS: It is if you think that your life is going to be threatened or the person is doing something on phone which has illegal connotations. So, what she did, and most people don't understand that, she didn't do it for herself, but it is perfectly appropriate. If she wanted to call the police, for example, right after the phone call, she would have to have something to show the police.
KING: Play it for 911.
GARBUS: Yes. You just have to play the phone calls.
KING: How did the tapes ever get released?
GRIGORIEVA: I have no idea. It's...
KING: They were just in your possession?
GRIGORIEVA: They were in position of my lawyers.
KING: How can they be released if you're the only one with them?
GARBUS: No, no, no, she's not the only one with them. She just said her lawyers had them.
KING: There were not you.
GARBUS: No, it's not me.
GRIGORIEVA: And the court had them.
GARBUS: And the court had them.
(CROSSTALK)
The court -- in the same way that these files are broken into just two days ago where 1,000 documents were releases or 2,000, that the tapes also came out of the court house.
KING: I see, so these tapes were not released the next day.
GARBUS: No, no.
GRIGORIEVA: No.
KING: In the audio recording, the man purportedly Mel Gibson, he continues to not say anything about whether it was him or not and the word we have is that Oksana saying, it was him. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOMAN: You need medication.
MAN: What? What?
WOMAN: You need medication.
MAN: I need a woman, not a (bleeped) girl with a dysfunctional (bleeped). I need a woman. I don't need medication. You need (bleeped) in the side of the head. All right? How about that? You need a (bleeped) doctor, you need a brain transplant, you need a (bleeped), you need a (bleeped) soul.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Why was he mad at you?
GRIGORIEVA: Because I left him that evening. I left him that night.
KING: And that was his anger.
GRIGORIEVA: That was his anger.
KING: Not that you had said anything publicly or done something.
GRIGORIEVA: Nothing at all. This was all recorded one night. You have to understand, when in the cycle of domestic violence, you completely cut out from your circle of your friends, you cut out economically. This person had complete control over me. So, he was losing his control. This is his main issues...
KING: So, you were deliberately taping him for further use if something happened to you or for the record?
GRIGORIEVA: At the time, as I was taping him, as I said, there were two reasons. One, I won't live for the night and I want my mother to be able to prove this to the world that's who killed me and two, I wanted to help him. This is as strange as it might sounds.
KING: We'll be back with more, don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Oksana and her attorney, Martin Garbus. Did he keep calling back or was that all one call?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes. Actually interesting enough. I just discovered from my attorneys those tapes, those recordings were completely legal under the penal code of California's 653 M. I've just learned that.
GARBUS: Just been educated.
KING: That you can do this if threatened?
GARBUS: Yes.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, you can if you...
KING: Were there a series of calls?
GRIGORIEVA: Series of calls and actually 653 M, A and B and A talks about body injury and threats and B talks about harassing phone calls, it doesn't mean say, or repeated phone calls. It doesn't mean say they have to be foul. But he called every five, ten minutes nonstop from 8:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m. in the morning.
KING: How are they so technically good?
GRIGORIEVA: They're not that good.
KING: They're pretty good.
GRIGORIEVA: Really?
KING: Don't you think for -- you had a home machine?
GRIGORIEVA: No, it's not a machine, it's an iPhone. That's an application called voice memos. I used it for...
KING: This have a little iPhone, you got this...
GRIGORIEVA: A little iPhone, yes.
KING: Just sold a lot of iPhones. That's pretty good -- no I mean, that...
GARBUS: Larry, I didn't get a chance to listen to all of the messages together. It's really horrendous. The fury and anger that was spewing out against her.
KING: The obvious thing that people have asked about this is, why didn't you hang up?
GRIGORIEVA: I did. I kept hanging out but he kept calling back. And I knew the sound, you probably can hear it's coming like from a barrel. I knew he was on his old phone in Malibu. He's not on the road with the iPhone calling from his iPhone. And he's not coming to kill me. So, I knew he was still there, so I kept picking up. But eventually, I got so exhausted. That's why I'm not replaying. And obviously, I didn't plan for this to be on public television. I would have, you know, called him for all the lies he said in those phone calls.
GARBUS: And the calls with hang-ups, so, it's not...
KING: It's not a 30-minute call.
GARBUS: No.
KING: In this clip that came from Radar online, we hear the man giving his feeling about Oksana's appearance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAN: You go out in public and it's a (bleeped) embarrassment to me. You look like a (bleeped) heat and if you get raped by a pack of (bleeped), your fault. All right? Because you provoked it. You are provocatively dressed all the time, with your fake (bleeped), you feel to have to show all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you provocatively dress?
GRIGORIEVA: Am I provocatively dress right now? KING: No, not now. But I mean, where does that come from?
GRIGORIEVA: As I said, all from the same night and this is a person who's losing control. This is a batterer who has been controlling me for quite a while. I stopped seeing my friends. I financially became completely dependent on him. He's losing control. I left him and this is the anger and outrage and I think he needs to take responsibility for the mental state he is and the disease, domestic violence is illness. And he has to be responsible for that.
KING: When these tapes were released, where did you first hear it, publicly?
GRIGORIEVA: I don't know, I think somebody called me and told me something.
KING: Were you shocked?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes.
KING: You had no idea...
GRIGORIEVA: I had no idea.
KING: ...that this would ever be seen on a television?
GRIGORIEVA: I think my lawyer told me, my lawyer called me in and told me, yes, I'm completely shocked.
GARBUS: Whoever took the files from the courthouse, these 2,000 pages certainly got paid a good deal with money. I presume whoever got the tapes, paid a good deal with money to get them, so there is a currency, there was a money business with respect to looting court files.
KING: How about the story that you were out to entrap him in a way. You knew his weakness and you wanted these tapes for -- forget the public use, for use in the courtroom some day. Did you have any script?
GRIGORIEVA: Are you kidding me?
KING: No, I mean, people have said this. I'm just asking.
GRIGORIEVA: No.
GARBUS: Listen to the tapes in their entirety.
GRIGORIEVA: You have to listen to them in the original without bleeping, without cutting is the way that I guess Radar done or other people, I don't know. But I have only heard them in the way that I recorded them. They're nine conversation. He probably called me 30, 40 times that night. I recorded eight or nine conversations. I can't remember right now.
KING: Why did you stay with him? GRIGORIEVA: That was a mistake. I stayed a little bit too long. But again, I immediately left on the sixth...
KING: You went back after January.
GRIGORIEVA: I did. I forgave him. I gave him last chance. He asked me for the last chance. He begged, he cried, he cried on his knees. What am I supposed to do?
KING: Did liquor usually set it off?
GRIGORIEVA: There was no liquor, not once. He never drunk. One time, he drunk, when he was away. That's the only time he drunk. I've never ever seen him drinking.
KING: So, this occurred by a man in full control of his senses.
GRIGORIEVA: That's why I keep saying on those tapes, you need medication, he does need medication for the sake of our daughter. He needs to be treated. He's desperate instead, what he's doing, he's using his lawyers, putting millions and millions of dollars. The paternity system is broken. I don't know maybe it's from 400 years ago, from U.K., remnants of the system went one person, the judge, is entirely responsible for something so monumental as your child's custody.
KING: Mel as was mentioned earlier, was arrested for DUI in 2006. We'll hear what he had to say after that arrest, stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Oksana Grigorieva. I got it. I know, I got it right. And Martin Garbus, her attorney. When we heard about that incident with the police officer, were you seeing him then?
GRIGORIEVA: No, I met him in 2007.
KING: That was three years before.
GRIGORIEVA: We started seeing each other in December...
KING: But you knew that story.
GRIGORIEVA: You know what, I knew a little bit about it. I didn't know it very much. No.
KING: Did you talk to him about it?
GRIGORIEVA: Of course, I did. KING: What did he say about the comments about Jews and blacks.
GRIGORIEVA: He said look that he was nothing like that look, everybody who works with him is Jewish.
KING: Is that true, by the way?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, it is true. It is true.
GARBUS: He denies having made those statements.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, he does.
GARBUS: So that if he's quoted in the newspaper of in the magazine, he say, I never said it.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, he said that there was even an actor who they recorded, I've never heard those, an actor who sounded like him to record his voice.
KING: So, he said he never made an anti-gay remarks, never made an anti-black remarks, never made an anti-Jewish.
GRIGORIEVA: Pretty much denied everything. It's only when I became pregnant and I felt like he had me, like he had complete control over me. He started to show his true self. But in the beginning of our relationship, he did say that there's a dark side of me.
KING: He said that.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes. I don't want you to ever see that because it will destroy us.
KING: During the arrest before you knew him, he was charged with DUI. Did you see him drink a lot?
GRIGORIEVA: He never drank.
KING: He never drank?
GRIGORIEVA: He never drank.
KING: During the arrest, police reports said, he said, f'ing Jews. The Jews were responsible for all the wars and the world, asked the deputy if he was Jewish. You're not Jewish, are you?
GRIGORIEVA: No. I'm actually turned Catholic, but I was Russian orthodox and I have reconditioned to Catholicism.
KING: Because of Mel?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes.
KING: You converted to Catholicism because of him?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes.
KING: He is a devote Catholic.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes.
KING: Isn't that hypocritical?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, it is hypocritical, as far as what's happening right now. Yes.
KING: What's the court case all about? He wants custody of this little girl?
GARBUS: There are a number of court cases. One is the paternity suit, where he wants custody of the little girl.
KING: He wants to have her --
GARBUS: Total custody. He's trying to deprive her of custody. He doesn't want to pay any support for the child.
Then you have a criminal proceeding, where Oksana and her son have gone to the district attorney and described the events of January 6th, the beating. By the way, Mel acknowledges that he hit her. So it's not as if he says he's in Chicago and didn't touch her. He admits hitting her.
So in the criminal court, you have the domestic violence. And Mel has filed a phony charge against her.
KING: Oh, what charge?
GARBUS: Phony charge against her that she somehow released the tapes and was guilty of extortion and was threatening him to release the tapes, none of which is true.
KING: You totally deny that?
GRIGORIEVA: Absolutely. I never threatened him. In fact, I walked on 15 dollars of what he was offering me to wash his hands on domestic violence, sign this agreement.
KING: Wait a minute. He offered you how much?
GRIGORIEVA: Fifteen million dollars during the --
KING: Fifty?
GRIGORIEVA: Fifteen.
KING: Fifteen million to drop the thing?
GRIGORIEVA: To settle. But he -- the way he obtained that custody, it was fraudulent because he threatened me --
GARBUS: Let me cut her short maybe just if I can. Yes, 15 million dollars to end everything.
KING: No criminal, no nothing.
GARBUS: No criminal, no nothing. So, the -- I'm sure the extortion charges are really just a publicity cover up and will drop away. One of the problems you mentioned before is that Mel Gibson, every day nearly in court, tries to bring some kind of gag order to try to stop her from talking. And he tries to argue -- KING: But she hasn't, has she?
GRIGORIEVA: I haven't.
KING: Until now.
GARBUS: And he tries to argue that if she goes on television -- and we had the show set for one night and then we canceled it. That was because of her concern that the judge would somehow take it against her that she had gone on television and talked about these issues. One of the things that Gibson says is that if she's on television, she's not spending time with her child, which is nonsense.
But every day that we go to court, nearly at the end of every day, there's an application for a gag order of one way or the other to stop her from talking. This, as you say, is the first time she's come out and talked.
KING: Mel released a statement after the DUI incident. Here it is in part: "after drinking alcohol on Thursday night, I did a number of things that are very wrong, for which I am ashamed. I drove a car when I should not have. I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things I do not believe to be true, and which are despicable. I'm deeply ashamed of everything I said. I apologized to the deputies involved for my belligerent behavior. I disgraced myself and my family with my behavior. And for that, I am truly sorry.
"I have battled with the disease of alcoholism all my adult life and profoundly regret my horrific relapse. I apologize for any behavior unbecoming of me in my inebriated state, and have already taken necessary steps to ensure my return to health."
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Oksana and her attorney, Martin Garbus. What did you make of that statement that we just broadcast? I announced what he said at the time that he -- you say you don't see him drink. He says he's a confirmed alcoholic.
GRIGORIEVA: Well, he was then, but then he became AA and he had a sponsor and he went to a 12-step program. But I believe he never finished it. So that's a problem.
There's anger issues. There's alcoholic issues. There's some other issues that he's not even aware of -- and he's not aware of. And I think his disease is progressing. It's getting worse, like anybody with a brain tumor obviously knows that it has to be attended immediately, rather than what he does. He pays millions and millions to his attorneys that seem to be preventing him from being responsible for what he's done. It's not OK to be beaten and silent.
KING: Why didn't you take the 15 million?
GRIGORIEVA: Why didn't I?
KING: Yes.
GRIGORIEVA: Because the very first sheet that I was forced to sign -- I was coerced to sign -- I was threatened that I will be sued criminally, that I will be prosecuted, civilly, criminally, and that I will lose the custody of my children.
KING: Your crime being what?
GRIGORIEVA: My crime being recording Mel Gibson without his consent.
KING: Why didn't you take the 15 million?
GRIGORIEVA: Because the custody that came along with the 15 million was completely wrong.
KING: He would have custody?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes.
GARBUS: He would have too much custody. Under the terms of the agreement, he would get a very rapid acceleration of the amount of time he saw the child.
KING: From what to what?
GARBUS: She was afraid to leave the child with him, as she is now.
GRIGORIEVA: And he didn't want to take any responsibility in treating himself, evaluating himself. And he washed his hands of domestic violence in that silent agreement, mediation, protected by privacy and mediation. My main thing is I cannot live with that. I cannot live in silence. And I don't believe that Mel Gibson is -- you know, could be a great dad if he doesn't take responsibility for what he's done and treat himself.
It's an illness. Domestic violence is an illness, because there's some kind of condition that needs to be treated. I am worried about my daughter spending overnights there.
KING: Does she spend overnight with him?
GRIGORIEVA: Of course. And now we just experienced step up again from that mediation agreement, which only works in part, i.e., custody , nothing else -- there is no money involved whatsoever. I walked off on that for my daughter. I'm fighting it every step.
GARBUS: The child now is alone with Mel. He has a nanny there, but the child sleeps alone. Mel is elsewhere and the nanny takes care of the child. And Oksana's argument in court has been I'm the mother.
KING: What is he paying now in child support?
GARBUS: Twenty thousand dollars a month.
GRIGORIEVA: Well, it just started. I haven't actually seen it yet.
GARBUS: She hasn't received a check.
GRIGORIEVA: He was fighting that since September.
KING: Here another clip. Oksana discusses being hit. Listen.
(BEGNI VIDEO CLIP)
GRIGORIEVA: You almost killed her. Did you forget.
(INAUDIBLE)
GIBSON: The least three years been a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gravy train.
GRIGORIEVA: You were hitting a woman with a child in her hands. You. What kind of man is that, hitting a woman when she's holding a child in her hands, breaking her teeth twice in the face? What kind of man is that?
GIBSON: Oh, you're all angry now.
(CROSS TALK)
GRIGORIEVA: You're going to answer one day, boy. You're going to answer.
(CROSS TALK)
GIBSON: What, what?
GRIGORIEVA: Nothing, nothing. I'm not the one to threaten.
GIBSON: I'm threatening. I'll put you in a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) rose garden, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Boy.
GARBUS: Yes, you blipped out the language. The language is awful. I don't know if you heard the tapes themselves.
KING: I think you can imagine. We did. I'm still a man -- I know that you were doing for hopefully protecting yourself. Why you didn't keep hanging up.
GARBUS: She did. You're missing the story. In other words, each tape you're hearing --
GRIGORIEVA: He called me 30 times. I only recorded eight conversations. GARBUS: She'd hang up -- in order words, she'd get a call. It would go on for one to two minutes. The language would start. She'd hang up. She'd get another call. Of that, she probably answered a small percentage of the calls that came in. But yes, she considered taping.
KING: What finally ended the calls? Why did it stop?
GRIGORIEVA: I pulled the batteries out of all my phones and I just kept my cell phone next to me. I was so exhausted. It was 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning by then. I couldn't talk to him anymore. No, he kept calling, I'm sure. It's just I pulled the batteries out of my phones, literally, physically.
KING: We'll be back with more. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with Oksana and her attorney, Martin Garbus. When did it start? When did you first say, this is not the guy I fell in love with?
GRIGORIEVA: Well, being a domestic violence victim, you always feel like you can help him.
KING: When did it start? What was the first instance?
GRIGORIEVA: When did it start? Pretty much when I became pregnant he started to show some signs of that darkness that he did not want to expose me to to begin with. He started to show and he started to, you know, be violent to other people, scream, yell, mostly verbally. It became -- the worst one was the January 6th.
KING: Did he -- did you ever -- because he's charging this -- did you ever extort him?
GRIGORIEVA: I never have extorted him.
KING: Did you ever do a quid pro quo?
GRIGORIEVA: What is that?
KING: That means you give me this, and I'll drop that.
GRIGORIEVA: I never have done that. I only played the tapes to my lawyers. I only gave them to my lawyers. Eventually, the court got it from my lawyers. But in order to show my rights that this is a domestic violence case. This is a domestic violence case. It's not OK to be beaten and silent, not in this country.
People died for First Amendment, for Constitution. Soldiers died. I know I'm not dying or anything, but I'm actually being threatened in court that I might lose my baby. I'm terrified talking to you right now because I might lose my child. I might need your help, Larry.
KING: But you know that he's a very famous person.
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, I know.
KING: And so, therefore, it's a risk to him. A power you had over him was his fame. Other people who are -- who treat people poorly and hit them, they're not well-known. Women are forced -- they're slaves to them. They have trouble running away. You didn't have that problem. You had Mel Gibson.
GARBUS: Yes. But look at the power that he had in a role like this.
KING: Except he's more vulnerable. She's vulnerable physically, but he's -- who's getting the bad press now?
GARBUS: No. In the courtroom, he has endless attorneys spending fortunes at times. I've said, we probably had ten applications to stop her from speaking First Amendment speeches. And they've tried to do everything to discourage her from bringing this lawsuit.
GRIGORIEVA: I have to say something really important. The domestic violence hearing has not even been set. It's been six months in court. I have witnesses that can testify to Mel Gibson. It's not been set.
KING: What delays that?
GRIGORIEVA: Because his lawyers being paid -- the more aggressive they are, the more millions he pays them. Now, paternity laws, as such, the system is broken. It needs to be redone. It is the remnants of maybe British system, where the entire control over your child, something so monumental as your child, is lying in the hands of one person.
And also in paternity, if you're a domestic violence victim, you normally -- in my situation, I'm the poor one. So the perpetrator pays my lawyers. In itself, it's a conflict of interest. But my lawyers only get paid if the judge permits them to be paid. IE, they have to acquiesce and they have to be nice.
KING: Have you been paid?
GARBUS: No.
KING: We continue to ask Mel Gibson for a response and to verify the authenticity. So far, he has not commented at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIBSON: I'm sick of your bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Has any relationship every worked with you? No.
GRIGORIEVA: Listen to me. You don't love me, because somebody who loves does not behave this way.
(CROSS TALK) GIBSON: I know I'm behaving like this because I know absolutely that you do not love me and you treat me with no consideration.
I love you because I treated you with every kindness, every consideration. You rejected. You will never be happy. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) away from me. But my daughter is important. All right. Now, you have one more chance. And I mean. Now (EXPLETIVE DELETED) go if you want. But I will give you one more chance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRIGORIEVA: He's threatening to take my daughter away and that's exactly what he's doing. He does not want to be responsible. He does not want to treat his illness. He does not want to be a good dad. It's not good --
KING: Do you worry when he takes your daughter?
GRIGORIEVA: Extremely..
KING: Once again, we have asked Mel Gibson and his representatives for a response. We did not receive one. There have been various emails that have been posted by the website TMZ purportedly from Oksana to Mel Gibson. I want to read one.
"If not for these recorded messages, you and your loyal people would have used any dirty trick they could. This is what I've been told and now I believe it. Too much evidence, my dear. So I'm sending my lawyers the rest of the messages. And I'm sending you a few, just to see why they were recorded in the first place."
More after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
KING: We're back. How was he to your son?
GRIGORIEVA: Well, Sasha was 12 years old when the abuse happened on January 6th.
KING: Before that, how was he?
GRIGORIEVA: It was spotty. It was good to begin with. They really got on so well. This is during happy times with Mel. For two years, we were very happy. And I remember the Mel, you know, the man I -- the man, Mel, I fell -- had fallen in love with. He was a wonderful person.
KING: Are there two Mels?
GRIGORIEVA: There are definitely two Mels.
KING: Do you still have feelings for him? GRIGORIEVA: I think those -- what he's done is completely unforgivable as -- and the level of partner and soul mate and -- as a woman, we had a family unit. And we promised each other to look after one another for our daughter's sake. And what I'm doing right now, I'm just keeping that promise to look after her and to make him better, to help him better.
So to answer your question, as a human being, as a mother of his child, I would forgive him, but he really needs to come and acknowledge what he's done and what he's doing: accusing the mother of his child of completely made up extortion and dragging it and dragging it.
KING: We have more audio now. In this except, we'll hear the man -- again allegedly Mel Gibson -- talking to Oksana about financial support. .
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIBSON: It'll her to the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) people that take (EXPLETIVE DELETED) money from the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) backs. OK?
GRIGORIEVA: You're telling me that you take away whatever pennies that you've just given to me? I don't have anything because I've given you my life, three years now.
GIBSON: I gave you everything. Don't you dare (EXPLETIVE DELETED) complain to me. You don't (EXPLETIVE DELETED) count. You're a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Go look after my child.
GRIGORIEVA: She's my child too.
GIBSON: Yes, I know, unfortunately, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I hope she doesn't turn out like you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Boy.
GARBUS: That's tough stuff.
GRIGORIEVA: It's painful. It's --
KING: What's it like to sit with him in court?
GRIGORIEVA: You know, I've only seen him there twice in the last week. He wasn't there before, not once.
KING: Is it hard to see him?
GRIGORIEVA: Yes, it is.
GARBUS: I think Mel's a good actor. And I think that when he's sitting in court, he's acting a different role. He's acting the role of a concerned father. So the Mel that you hear on the tapes and the Mel that you see is not the person who is in court. KING: We'll be back with our remaining moments after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: We're back with our remaining moments. This trial or trials continues. Did he ever harm your daughter?
GRIGORIEVA: The -- there were two fist blows. One of them were across my mouth, which broke my teeth or veneers, if you like. One was shattered in 20 little pieces. And I think at the end of that blow, he grazed across Lucia's chin and maybe the porcelain was -- I found it later on on my shirt everywhere, like tiny little bits and pieces, very sharp. And it went across her chin and she started bleeding.
But the actual -- the actual cut was very hard. He hit me with a fist. He hit me twice very fast. And the blow went across my mouth, broke the teeth, the veneers, and then at the end of that blow, he -- because I was holding her -- I was holding, protecting her head. He grazed through her chin. And it cut her a little bit. And there was blood.
And with that blow, we fell down. I just flew backwards on to the bed holding Lucia in my arms.
KING: One more clip. Here's Oksana debating custody. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIGORIEVA: I don't have anything. And signed a paper. I signed -- I signed a paper that enables me to get --
GIBSON: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
GRIGORIEVA: I singed a paper that enables me to get -- I can't get anything from you ever, nor can I ask of anything.
GIBSON: (EXPLETIVE DELETED). How dare you lie like that?
GRIGORIEVA: I signed a paper.
GIBSON: Dishonest (EXPLETIVE DELETED), gold digging, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Now I'm sure you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
GIRGORIEVA: I have signed a paper. I don't want anything from you. I don't have anything.
GIBSON: You want my child. And she doesn't need a gold digging (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Russian, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). We all know what you are.
GRIGORIEVA: She's certainly -- I'm sorry? You will not have this child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Did he call you his little communist?
GRIGORIEVA: Only as a joke. That was -- he called me all kind of different names.
KING: But you were so close that you converted to Catholicism.
GRIGORIEVA: We were extremely in love for two years. I mean, I --
KING: So what happened? You didn't see drinking.
GRIGORIEVA: No.
KING: These rages did not occur while inebriated.
GRIGORIEVA: Not in the beginning, no. Not at all, not for at least a year and a half, two years. I -- yes, he was wonderful and attentive and loved me so much. And he would carry me around, pick me up out of nowhere. And his friends said he was the healthiest and happiest they'd ever seen him.
KING: You every turn on television and one of his movies is on?
GRIGORIEVA: Yeah, sure. We'd watch his movies.
KING: No, now do you watch.
GRIGORIEVA: Oh. I don't know. Not now. Not now.
KING: It's all very sad.
GRIGORIEVA: It's tremendously sad. And all I'm trying to do -- what I'm trying to -- I guess what I'm trying to do is step in for domestic violence, not just for myself, not for this six months of torture that I went through and my daughter, but also other domestic violence victims. Because this is a very high profile case and I have this opportunity to be invited by you. Other victims might not have such a chance to speak up.
KING: Thank you for coming. Do you expect some resolution soon?
GARBUS: Not soon.
KING: Thank you both very much.
GRIGORIEVA: Thank you, Larry. I appreciate it.
KING: Once again, we asked Mel Gibson and his representatives for a response. We have not received one to this second. Time now for "AC 360."
