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Afghanistan: U.S. Forces in Action in Eastern Afghanistan; al Qaeda Forces Remain in Parts of Country

Aired March 05, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Nic Robertson in Kabul. Tonight, we have the latest video from the U.S. Department of Defense of U.S. forces in action a hundred miles south of here.

We'll have an in-depth analysis of how al Qaeda is still dug in across the country. And new details of what happened to U.S. troops on the ground. All that and more in LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. JOHN ROSA, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We've killed people. They're not roaming around freely like they were. They're dug in. They're hunkered in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: New pictures show the fierce fighting in eastern Afghanistan. What's the U.S. up against? Tough terrain, rough weather and a fierce enemy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTORIA CLARKE, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: The people who are left fighting the al Qaeda are among the toughest, the most violent, the most committed to fighting this out to the end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Casualties of war. The bodies of Americans killed in combat head home.

Uneasy times, not far from the frontlines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: An undercurrent of tension pervades here, most noticeable when the city's ethnically diverse officials get together, each with his own gunman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Live from Afghanistan, Nic Robertson. ROBERTSON: Tonight, LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN comes from Kabul, the capital of the country, 100 miles north of the fighting in Operation Anaconda outside the regional town of Gardez.

As we travel northwards from our vantage point about 50 miles from the frontlines through the mountains, traveling over roads sometimes going 8,000 feet up, we could see B-52 bombers circling en route to Gardez. In the latest Department of Defense video, there is new information on how U.S. troops fought their battle on the ground outside Gardez.

Barbara Starr, CNN's correspondent at the Pentagon, has that report and how the downing of two U.S. helicopters happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The first combat footage from Operation Anaconda shows U.S. troops as they begin their assault on al Qaeda and Taliban positions near Gardez in eastern Afghanistan.

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: Where is that fire coming from?

STARR: As U.S. forces attempt to move into the mountain terrain, there is little indication that special forces would become engaged in 18 hours of the worst ground combat the military has seen in a decade.

At the Pentagon, more details on how two helicopters came under deadly enemy ground fire on Monday. Officials defended putting so many men into such a hot combat zone.

ROSA: There's no way with perfect intelligence that you can tell that there's never going to be a round fire. And we were inserting at that time with special forces teams that we needed to get inserted.

STARR: It begins as an MH-47 Chinook like this one is hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. The helicopter rapidly takes off but lands a short distance away with hydraulic failure from the attack. The crew then discovers one man had apparently fallen out.

A second helicopter flying nearby drops off its own troops and then goes to retrieve the soldiers from the first helicopter. About three-and-a-half hours later, two more helicopters fly into the area, about a mile from the first incident. One of those helicopters is hit by enemy gunfire. It crash lands, a firefight breaks out on the ground, six men are killed, 11 wounded.

Some 12 hours later, another helicopter comes in to rescue the survivors and the dead. A commando team which secretly moved into the region retrieved the body of the man who fell out of the first helicopter and brought it to the landing zone where everyone finally gets out. The Pentagon says there was no choice but to keep forces right in the middle of the fight.

ROSA: I don't want to question tactical commanders, but there was an American, for whatever reason, was left behind and we don't leave Americans behind.

STARR: But reinforcements are on the way. CNN has been told that Marine Corps Cobra gunships and transport helicopters have moved into Afghanistan from amphibious warships in the North Arabian Sea.

(on camera): The question remains whether the U.S. underestimated the enemy force. The original estimate was there were as many as 400 Taliban and al Qaeda holed up in those mountains in eastern Afghanistan. Sources now say the enemy force may have been as large as 700.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: The Pentagon has now released new details of what happened to U.S. troops on the ground, that shot from surveillance aircraft. CNN's national security correspondent David Ensor is at the Pentagon now and has those details. David, what have you learned?

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nic, since Barbara filed her report, U.S. officials have given us some of the rather chilling details of the last hours of the Americans who died in those two incidents.

First of all, the incident that took place where one of the soldiers, actually it was a sailor, it was a Navy SEAL named Neil Roberts, fell out of a helicopter as it was trying to get away quickly. That was then subsequently discovered. We now hear that commanders of the forces were watching in agony from a video camera that was in a Predator drone pilotless aircraft flying above the scene. And they watched as the Navy SEAL was captured by the enemy and was executed.

In the other incident, the one with the two helicopters, one of which had to crash land, we're told that the American forces there came under withering enemy fire and had to survive there for 12 to 14 hours while a rescue could be arranged. And it was during those hours that six Americans were killed and 11 Americans were wounded.

The Pentagon has also released the video which Barbara has used parts of in her report, and that video shows that even in the early stages of the move towards the high mountains, the soldiers were already coming under some fire. The goal of the U.S. and its allies was to surprise the encircled al Qaeda people. But the video already suggests they were expected. There was gunfire against these forces that were on the outskirts some days ago. So very, very fierce fighting still going on. American officials saying it is likely to continue for some time. Back to you.

ROBERTSON: David, what is the Pentagon telling you about other pockets of al Qaeda resistance around the country?

ENSOR: Well, Nic, U.S. officials say there are a number of pockets. They believe this one to be the largest, but there are a number of pockets of resistance. They say they're going to take them all on one by one or perhaps two at a time if there are that many. They also believe, by the way, it is their best guess they say, that Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar are likely to be in those smaller pockets somewhere in Afghanistan -- Nic.

ROBERTSON: David Ensor at the Pentagon. Thank you very much for that report.

Bagram Air Base, just north of Kabul, is now one of the main staging areas in Operation Anaconda. CNN's Brian Palmer is there there and has been watching the airlift operations operating out of there. Brian, what do you know at this time about how long this operation may continue?

BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nic, it's about a half hour before sunrise here. First, we'd like to tell you that the chairman of the interim administration as well as his defense minister, General Fahim, and some of his lead commanders are scheduled to have a press conference this morning at about 9:00. So, a little under four hours from now to announce at least the Afghan perspective on the progress of the war.

Now, we've talked to a 10th Mountain officer here who gave us an update on the operations yesterday, as in yesterday Afghanistan time. He was saying that the firefights were intense, the bombardment was continuing but that the U.S. coalition and Afghan forces had killed several hundred al Qaeda and Taliban forces, particularly reinforcements that had come in to support some of the al Qaeda and Taliban troops in Shahe-Cote (ph) region.

Now, as I said, we have been here since last night. We were here overnight. We got here at around sunset. A little before sunset, there was a tremendous amount of helicopter activity here, Chinooks and other aircraft. We cannot tell you what's going on now. That's one of the conditions of our being on the base. But I can assure you that this is a 24-hour operation. There is activity around the clock -- Nic.

ROBERTSON: Brian, from what you are seeing there at this moment, does it appear as if operations are being scaled down, stepped up or are at a level?

PALMER: Well, again, we can't tell you exactly what's going on now. We have to go back a few hours and judging from what we heard when we laid our heads down on our pillows, nothing is being scaled back, Nic.

ROBERTSON: Brian Palmer at Bagram Air Base. We understand the conditions you are operating under there. Thank you very much for that report.

Just 50 miles west of Gardez, the center of operation for Operation Anaconda, is the provincial city of Ghazni. Officials there are concerned that Operation Anaconda may overspill into their region, a region that they believe already has al Qaeda and Taliban members living in it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): While bombers and reconnaissance aircraft pass overhead en route for al Qaeda targets near Gardez 50 miles to the west we were being shown prisoners in a jail. The four men, brought out for our camera, accused of siding with the Taliban and inciting rebellion 30 miles south of the provincial capital, Ghazni, last week. They deny the charges.

Abdul admits to being a military commander, but says he was not on a mission to destabilize the town of Cariba (ph). An undercurrent of tension pervades here, most noticeable when the city's ethnically diverse officials get together, each with his own gunman.

Security concerns among some ethnic groups are growing, as they fear the coalition offensive in nearby Paktia provinces could spill over.

RAHMATULLAH GHAZNAWEE, PROVINCE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and they will escape from Gardez, they will come into the next province. So we have information that they fled into Ghazni now. And that's more dangerous for us now.

ROBERTSON: Governor Kerri Barbar (ph) talks of his long friendship with the United States, and says he wants money and help to combat the threat.

KERRI BARBAR (through translator): They promised to help a long time ago, and now they have to help us.

ROBERTSON: Some officials say not only do they know where al Qaeda and Taliban leaders are, but they've had them under surveillance. Despite that, however, one former Taliban commander openly flaunts his old connections and is now a member of the local administration.

KHAIL MOHAMMAD HUSSEN (through translator): In Gardez, there are Shias (ph), Sunni, Tajiks, Uzbeks and Muzarra (ph). We don't have any problems. The only problem is there are too many men are armed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: One of the other problems is that as the tensions between the ethnic leaders grow, because they try and make better their positions out of the current conflict, is that this could be more trouble on the streets of those cities.

When we come back, more analysis in LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.

ANNOUNCER: Next, a committed enemy and rough terrain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: It is going to continue on. It is going to be tough. We're going to a guerrilla warfare phase. There are going to be continued attacks, strike business the enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We'll get a retired brigadier general's perspective on the fighting in Afghanistan. And later, fallen Americans make their long journey home.

LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN will be back in two minutes. But first, do you think the number of U.S. casualties in Operation Enduring Freedom has been more or less than expected? To take the quick vote, head to cnn.com. The AOL keyword is CNN. A reminder, this poll is not scientific.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Operation Anaconda is the largest American-led air and ground offensive in Afghanistan. The U.S. and allied Afghan fighters make up most of the 2,000 troops involved. Forces from Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany and Norway are also participating.

ROBERTSON: From Chicago, we are joined now by retired Brigadier General David Grange, who during his 30-year military career, served as a ranger and a green beret. General, you've been involved in these operations before. How is Operation Anaconda being fought?

GRANGE: Well, Nic, I believe it's being fought well, from what we've heard so far. Losing -- having a few helicopters go down, obviously is not a good thing, but it's to be expected. They're very vulnerable to enemy fire in this type of terrain. But they're necessary to get across the same type of terrain, to avoid mine fields and speed up the tempo of the operation.

ROBERTSON: Is it a surprise at this stage so long after the bombing ended almost three months ago that such a large offensive should be mounted against al Qaeda?

GRANGE: I don't believe so. I believe that the enemy's been laying low in this area and probably some other areas. And we'll see more of this as the spring comes about and the fight picks up. This is a hard core enemy, obviously, that the coalition forces are taking on, made up of foreign fighters. Maybe from -- and we haven't heard much about this recently. And maybe you can find them. The 55th air brigade.

ROBERTSON: General, should more fatalities or is it likely that more fatalities will be expected as the operation unfolds?

GRANGE: Sadly to say, I believe so. I mean, we're putting people in harm's way, we're in combat. The enemy that our forces, the coalition forces are fighting right now, want to fight American troops on the ground. They want to fight us on the ground. And so that's going to be inevitable. The aircraft alone can not destroy the force. It must be a synchronized air and ground attack to eliminate these enemy pockets of resistance.

ROBERTSON: Looking back to the operation at Tora Bora a few months ago where many al Qaedas appeared to flee across the border to Pakistan, how -- what has been learned in that operation and how is that now being put into effect now, do you believe?

GRANGE: I believe the assessments have states that this was a rear guard action. In other words, a force left behind to delay the coalition forces as a larger force or several forces escaped into this area that the fighting's going on right now in Afghanistan and also into Pakistan. And the encirclement, the noose, was not secure enough to prevent the escape of enemy forces. And that's a principle of guerrilla warfare, you must seal off the objective as you go in there and destroy the pieces.

ROBERTSON: In this type of warfare, helicopters are a key component, but as two were downed in early stages, how do you think that will affect the tactics on the ground?

GRANGE: Well, you know, the helicopter, especially the second aircraft that was hit was because of our philosophy that we don't leave fallen comrades behind. And many people argue why lose more to save one or a few? And the power of that brotherhood, that camaraderie knowing that your fellow fighters will never leave you behind, it's psychologically so powerful, it's worth doing that. And so what will happen is that they'll just look at the type of weaponry the enemy are using against helicopters, in this case, machine guns and RPGs, and they'll do counter operations to counter the effect of those enemy weapons systems.

ROBERTSON: General Grange in Chicago, thank you very much for your analysis. LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN will be back in a few minutes.

ANNOUNCER: When we return, as they've done in the past, U.S. forces in Germany once again honor comrades lost in battle.

LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN returns in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTSON: Up next in LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, the bodies of seven U.S. servicemen killed in action make their way home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Ramstein Air Base in Germany is the largest U.S. Air Force installation outside North America. It is the transfer point to the U.S. for many of the U.S. servicemen and women killed in action around the world.

ROBERTSON: In a few hours, seven servicemen who were killed in action in Operation Anaconda -- the bodies of seven servicemen killed in Operation Anaconda will arrive as many service personnel killed in action do at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. En route, they pass through Ramstein Air Base in Germany, from where Matthew Chance filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): With U.S. forces suffering their biggest combat losses since the start of the war in Afghanistan, we have been witnessing some quite somber scenes here in Landstuhl in Germany. The caskets of seven dead U.S. servicemen arriving here and being ceremoniously transferred from one cargo aircraft that came in from Afghanistan to another to take them back to the United States.

The caskets containing the human remains received military honors here in Germany. Each was draped in a U.S. flag and met by a formal guard of honor, made up of representatives from each of the services from the Army and the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Air Force, and carried in silence to awaiting vehicles.

So, emotional scenes here in Germany, as as many as 150 U.S. service personnel stood and witnessed those caskets being transferred from that one plane to the other one. The plane now en route back to the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: The Pentagon has now released the names of those seven U.S. servicemen. From the Army, they are Sergeant Bradley S. Crose, Sergeant Philip J. Svitak, Specialist Marc. A Anderson, Private First Class Matthew A. Commons.

From the Navy, Petty Officer First Class Neil C. Roberts. And from the Air Force, Technical Sergeant John A. Chapman and Senior Airman Jason D. Cunningham.

It's not the first time I've stood here and read the names of those killed in action here in Afghanistan. The Pentagon warns that operations here will remain tough.

Thank you for joining us in LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN. I'm Nic Robertson. LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN will be back tomorrow.

Up next, THE POINT with Anderson Cooper. And for our international viewers, please stay tuned for regular programming. We leave you with these images from the frontlines 100 miles south of here in Operation Anaconda.

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