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Afghanistan: Are Taliban and al Qaeda Fighters Still on the Loose?; Fighting Continues Between Palestinians and Israel
Aired March 13, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NIC ROBERTSON, HOST: I'm Nic Robertson in Gardez in eastern Afghanistan. In tonight's program, I'll report from Shah-e-Kot, the village that was the heart of Taliban and al Qaeda resistance during Operation Anaconda. We'll discuss the offensive with our -- one of our military experts. We'll also get an update on the violence in Israel. All that and LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.
ANNOUNCER: Victory in the valley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. BRYAN HILFERTY, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: We have controlled the area we wanted to. We killed hundreds of the al Qaeda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But is it operation over?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. ZIA, AFGHAN COMMANDER (through translator): And we attacked them and in a short time, terminated them and a few of them escaped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Are Taliban and al Qaeda fighters still on the loose? It's not your local service station.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Because of the distance to the battlefield, the Cobra helicopters can't make it the whole way and then have a lot of time on scene. So to take care of that problem, they have to refuel. Welcome to the gas station.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: We'll top off the tank, just miles from the front lines.
Tonight, LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, Nic Robertson.
ROBERTSON: Tonight, LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN comes from Gardez, just 20 miles north of the village of Shah-e-Kot that was the focus of Operation Anaconda. During that offensive, there were nine days of continuous bombing over a 60 square mile area. Eight U.S. servicemen lost their lives in the offensive and at its peak, over 1,000 U.S. troops were involved in the offensive. When the final offensive came some 900 Afghan fighters fought to gain control of the village. It is now in coalition hands and U.S. military planners are calling the operation a success.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILFERTY: In the past 24 hours, our Afghan allies under General Zia and Haider have seized the objective area, the ridgeline known as the whale to the west of the village of Mazak (ph), Ababakal (ph) and Shir Conkeel and the whole Shah-e-Kot Valley.
I think the progress has been great. Operation Anaconda is on plan, is on track, has gone an incredible success. We have controlled the area we wanted to. We killed hundreds of the al Qaeda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: As I discovered on a trip to the village of Shah-e- Kot just hours after the final assault was completed, we found that perhaps some Taliban and al Qaeda fighters may have escaped that final assault.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Blasted from their defensive positions around Shah-e-Kot, three dead al Qaeda or Taliban fighters lie on the rocks where they fell. A few feet away in the village that had recently welcome their base, evidence of a massive air assault on the mud built compounds and relaxing among the ruins, Afghan fighters and U.S. Special Forces, their mission to capture the Shah-e-Kot Valley area complete.
GUL HIADER, AFGHAN COMMANDER (through translator): First, we captured all the mountaintops. And the U.S. forces were with us in this fight. Now, there is not enough enemy left in this area.
ROBERTSON: Overhead, attack helicopters circle, ensuring security in the hours just after victory for the troops below. In all, some 900 Afghan fighters attacked the village in an overnight offensive. One ethnic group from the north and another from the south teaming up with U.S. Special Forces along the way.
During the last six days of Operation Anaconda, U.S. forces say they received no accurate or sustained enemy fire. And in the final offensive, it appears some al Qaeda or Taliban may have slipped away.
ZIA: We surrounded them and when we were strong, we attacked them. In a short time, terminated them and a few of them escaped.
ROBERTSON: Commanders here say the next phase of the battle is to regroup and scour the area for any Taliban and al Qaeda elements that may be hiding nearby. Around the village, there are only occasional indicators of ground fighting, and few bodies to be seen hinting that many may have fled from here before the final offensive.
Leaving the battlefield, not far away, Afghan fighters spoke of fierce bombing before their assault. According to this fighter, many al Qaeda and Taliban were buried in the rubble.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: How many Taliban and al Qaeda fighters are on the run remains unclear, but security is being stepped up in the region. We are joined now by Retired Major General Don Shepperd in Washington for an analysis on Operation Anaconda.
General, the operation appears to be winding down. Has it been a success?
MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: So far, it's been a success, Nic. As we've said, we've killed hundreds of the fighters. We're not in a -- we're not in the body count business, but clearly we have gone against them in their own redoubts in their caves and tunnels. This was a major staging area, assembly area for these people. They had lots of ammunition; lots of supplies stashed in this area and we now own it. So from that standpoint, it's been a success.
However, some of them have escaped and we'll meet them again in other areas in Afghanistan and other where - and other places, Nic.
ROBERTSON: General, this was also a symptom of the offensive in Tora Bora back in December and early January that some of the fighters managed to escape. What is being learned and how is that being put into practice to try and cut off those escape routes?
SHEPPERD: Well, remember, Nic, it is not that Tora Bora was a failure and this is a success. We are learning as we go. Tora Bora game came only 45 days into our operations in Afghanistan and we had a lot to do across the country as well as the Tora Bora operation. Tora Bora was mainly an Afghan operation with involvement by our Special Forces.
Here, we have our Special Forces; we have Afghans and we also have a significant number, over 1,000 troops, from the 101st Airborne. We also have -- we also have coalition partners involved in this. So our high technology and mobility is really coming into place in the battle around Shah-e-Kot. And we are learning as we go. We're getting better at working with the Afghans. And so, again, it's not that one was a failure and one was a success, but this definitely was a success and we're learning as we go and getting better at it.
ROBERTSON: In terms of working as a coalition, in the final offensive the majority of the ground troops going in on that final assault were the Afghan fighters. Why would that have been the case?
SHEPPERD: Well, basically, our people have done the work that they are required to do, which was go in with our high technology intelligence and sensors, our night-fighting equipment, our heavy air power, take on the hard targets first and then the Afghans are being used here for mopping up forces. They also know the area. They're going into the caves. We must not put down in any way the Afghan fighters. They are very fierce and they're very good and they know the area there. So it's a -- very much a coalition operation in which we're using our coalition forces and we're also using the Afghan forces very intelligently.
Again, we're learning as we go and we're getting better and better at this. The al Qaeda have a rough road to go in Afghanistan and other places from what we're learning here, Nic.
ROBERTSON: Indeed. In the beginning of Operation Anaconda, it was described as being the last or the largest offensive so far. Will that continue to be the case? Do you think this - that any offensive following this against al Qaeda will be as big as this?
SHEPPERD: It's hard to say. The good thing about the Shah-e-Kot fighting was that they were masked. They had reportedly up to a 1,000, perhaps even more fighters masked in these tunnels and caves. There are other areas of tunnels and caves with supplies in them across Afghanistan. We're not sure yet how many people are assembling there. But particularly down further south, but in the eastern part of the country, around the Ghazni area, the Kandahar area, Orazgon (ph) Province, Helman Province, there are many of these same type areas and if people assemble there, we'll have other operations like this. But for the most part, they probably will be smaller than Tora Bora and smaller than Shah-e-Kot from all our indications now, Nic.
ROBERTSON: Major General Don Shepperd, thank you for joining us and thank you for the analysis.
In the opening phase of Operation Anaconda, a U.S. Navy SEAL fell from a helicopter and was killed by al Qaeda members on the ground. He has been posthumously awarded the Bronze Star. U.S. Navy SEAL Petty Officer First Class Robert Adams was honored with that award.
When we come back, more in the war on terrorism and Afghanistan.
ANNOUNCER: Next, marching orders from Vice President Cheney.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our next objective is to prevent terrorists and regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Our John King reports from the Middle East on Mr. Cheney's delicate trip to the region.
And later, battlefield Ramallah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Israeli tanks and armored personnel carriers have reached the center of Ramallah. There is Palestinian resistance, but with their AK-47s and light weaponry, they're no match for the Israeli Armor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: We'll go to the front lines in another deadly conflict.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTSON: Today, there was tough talk from President Bush regarding the war on terrorism and on Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a nation run by a man who is willing to kill his own people by using chemical weapons, a man who won't let inspectors into the country, a man who's obviously got something to hide and he is a problem. And we're going to deal with him. And -- but the first stage is to consult with our allies and friends and that's exactly that we're doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Mr. Bush also downplayed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Deep in my heart I know that the man's on the run if he's alive at all. And I - you know, who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not. We haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is really -- indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person and he's just -- he's a person who has now been marginalized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: Mr. Bush made those comments during a news conference a few hours ago.
In the meantime, in the Middle East, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney is building and reaffirming the coalition in the war on terrorism. He has called on leaders. He has called on both Palestinians and Israelis to halt the violence in Israel at this time. CNN's senior White House correspondent John King reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lunch with U.S. peacekeepers on the Sinai Peninsula, a chance to thank the troops and for once, stick to the initial White House script for the vice president's Middle East trip. This meeting with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak included talks, as Mr. Cheney had hoped, about Iraq and other future fronts in the war on terrorism. But Mr. Mubarak made clear escalating Israeli- Palestinian violence is a more urgent, immediate issue in their area and also, made clear he blames Israel.
HOSNI MUBARAK, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT: It's a gun, military offensive in civilian towns and villages. It cannot be tolerated and must be immediately stopped.
KING: Mr. Cheney chose his words carefully because of the delicate diplomacy, saying both sides have a responsibility to end the violence and that Washington's short-term goal is to broker a cease- fire. But he did try to curry Arab favor by reiterating the administration's long-term goal of a Palestinian state.
President Mubarak says he is optimistic that Iraqi president Saddam Hussein will let United Nations weapons inspectors return to Baghdad. The Egyptian leader said all diplomatic avenues need to be exhausted first, but he did not completely slam the door on U.S. military action.
MUBARAK: If there is nothing happened, we would find out what would be done in that direction.
KING: Mr. Cheney and other top U.S. officials are skeptical Iraq will agree to meaningful inspections. And at his earlier visit with the U.S. peacekeeping troops, the vice president called confronting unfriendly nations with weapons of mass destruction the next objective on the war on terrorism.
CHENEY: The United States will not permit the forces of terror to gain the tools of genocide.
KING: The vice president's trademark is discipline and top aides say he is satisfied with his talks at his first two stops in the Middle East. Yet, one senior official on the trip concedes it is more difficult to focus on Iraq when Arab leaders are so angry at Israel.
The official decline to answer when asked if the White House accepts the Arab view that the Israeli offensive is excessive.
(on-camera): But this same senior U.S. official said emphatically that the violence needs to stop and sent a clear signal that the timing of the latest Israeli military offensive was complicating the vice president's diplomatic efforts here in the Arab world, noting with some sarcasm, "You might say Prime Minister Sharon did not consult with the vice president when scheduling his actions."
John King, CNN, Sharm El Sheikhl, Egypt.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: Despite calls for a cease-fire, fighting in the region between Israelis and Palestinians continue, much of it in the West Bank town of Ramallah. CNN's Ben Wedeman is there. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Ramallah has become a battlefield. From street to street, neighborhood to neighborhood, Israeli forces and Palestinian gunmen fight it out.
(on-camera): Israeli tanks and armored personnel carriers have reached the center of Ramallah. There is Palestinian resistance, but with their AK-47s and light weaponry, they're no match for the Israeli Armor.
(voice-over): Amidst the fighting, U.S. council general to Jerusalem, Ron Slichzer (ph) came to Ramallah to talk with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.
Palestinian officials say the U.S. told them they're doing what they can to stop the violence.
NABIL ABU RADEINA, PALESTINIAN SPOKESMAN: They are saying that we are urging the Israelis to stop their attacks and to withdrawal, but so far as I told you, the Israelis are not responding, but on the contrary, they are challenging the American administration.
WEDEMAN: Diplomats and peace envoys haven't blunted Israel's offensive against what it calls the Palestinian terrorist infrastructure, an offensive that has left more than 150 Palestinians dead since the beginning of March.
Also, among the dead, Italian freelance journalist Rafael Cielelo (ph), the first international journalist killed since the outbreak of the Palestinian uprising. Witnesses said Cielelo (ph) was shot in the chest and abdomen by Israeli forces. The Israeli Army is investigating the killing.
The city center, a scene of destruction. Even Ramallah's hospitals have not been spared. This maternity hospital came under fire from Israeli forces. The staff says patient's rooms riddled with machine gunfire.
Here the anger is not just directed at Israel.
"They still say we're terrorists," shouts this woman. "We just want peace. We're not terrorists. Sharon is the terrorist. Bush is the terrorist."
In an area of the city still under Palestinian control, residents watch as Israeli helicopters hover overhead, wondering if their neighborhood is next.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Ramallah, on the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next, when chopper pilots in Operation Anaconda are running on empty, this is where they go to fill her up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (on-camera): Do you clean the windshield?
LANCE CORPORAL GERROLD GOLDSMITH (ph), U.S. MARINE CORPS: No, we let the pilot do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: We'll pull into a gas station and meet some troops giving fuel to the fight when LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN returns.
But first, time for your opinion. Do you think greater U.S. involvement would help bring about a ceasefire in the Middle East? To take the quick vote, head to CNN.com. The AOL keyword is CNN. A reminder, this poll is not scientific.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: I'm Anderson Cooper in New York. Coming up on "THE POINT," an Oregon town confronts an ominous mystery, a teenage girl disappeared in January. Last Friday, another girl vanished as well. Also, a passenger with Alzheimer's disease wanders off while changing planes at the Dallas Fort Worth Airport. That was more than three months ago. She still not been found and the family wants answers.
"THE POINT" begins in less 10 minutes. Now, back to "LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN."
ROBERTSON: Up next in LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, refueling the helicopter gun ships in the battle against al Qaeda and the Taliban.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: At its peak, some 1,400 U.S. troops took part in Operation Anaconda. It was the largest ground assault for American forces since the Persian Gulf War.
ROBERTSON: During Operation Anaconda, CNN's Martin Savidge had extensive access with U.S. forces. One of the key components of that mission were the helicopter gun ships and as Martin now reports, keeping them airborne was vital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: 8:30 a.m., bound from Bagram, you're on board a Marine CH-53 Super Stallion, one of the largest helicopters in the air. And in case you're wondering, we're headed for the front.
The role of this war bird though isn't to fight, but something far more vital in the ongoing war against terrorism. We wind our way deep into the mountains and touch down seemingly in the middle of nowhere. Moments later, the crew is running hoses and making connections. Within minutes, we're in business and the customers are flocking in. You've just landed at Operation Anaconda's FARP, Forward Air Refueling Point. (on-camera): Because of the distance to the battlefield, the Cobra helicopters can't make it all the way and then have a lot of time on scene. So to take care of that problem, they have to refuel. Welcome to the gas station.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: We just pick the safest place we can find that's close to the objective.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): From here, the battle is three minutes away, just over those mountains. The FARP may not sell cigarettes or slushees, but then your quarter gas station doesn't offer tow or hellfire missiles, plus, 25-millimeter machinegun rounds.
Reloading the Cobras is Lance Corporal Gerrold Goldsmith's (ph) job.
(on-camera): Do you clean the windshield?
LANCE CORPORAL GERROLD GOLDSMITH (ph), U.S. MARINE CORPS: No, we let the pilot do that.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): And should your chopper take too much flake, Lance Corporal Stewart Simpson (ph) is the mechanic on duty.
LANCE CORPORAL STEWART SIMPSON (ph), U.S. MARINE CORPS: Arula (ph) is the hydraulics mechanic on. He was in Cobras.
SAVIDGE: Security is tight. They're not worried about holdups but holdouts of the Taliban and al Qaeda kind who'd love to put them out of business. And business is brisk. Like they always say, location, location, location.
But what happens when the gas station runs out of gas? No problem, they just take off and meet up with another high-flying refueler in this case, a KC-130.
It may not be self-serve and you won't get green stamps, but at the FARP, it's service with a smile and a little something more.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: It feels good. I'm glad we're out here doing this, getting revenge, I guess.
SAVIDGE: So the next time you're flying over Afghanistan running on E and out of ammo, drop on by. For these Marines, the war on terror is a real gas.
Martin Savidge, CNN, eastern Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: Well, it's likely these mobile gas stations are going to see a lot more service in Afghanistan in the coming months ahead. And as the sun comes up here on Thursday morning, the helicopters will be once again taking to the skies to help track down Taliban and al Qaeda elements who may have escaped Operation Anaconda around the village of Shah-e-Kot. Thank you for watching. I'm Nic Robertson. That was LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.
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