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Jerusalem: Can Zinni Succeed in His Mission?; Israelis, Palestinians Speak Out on Prospects for Peace
Aired March 14, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Mike Hanna in Jerusalem. Each day, we report more Israelis, more Palestinians dead. Today is no different. But can a special U.S. enjoy succeed where others, including himself, have failed before and implement a lasting cease-fire? More words amidst the war next in LIVE FROM JERUSALEM.
ANNOUNCER: The reality in the region. The battles rage and the death toll rises for both Israelis and Palestinians. Now, hoping to forge a foundation for peace, U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni. What are the chances his mission will succeed where others have failed?
From the streets of Tel Aviv...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're willing to cease fire and, you know, it doesn't look like, you know, they are. I mean, I wish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: To the West Bank.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want them gone and we want them gone for good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Israelis and Palestinians speak out on prospects for peace.
LIVE FROM JERUSALEM, Mike Hanna.
HANNA: Good evening.
Within the last few hours, reports that Israeli forces are withdrawing from the West Bank city of Ramallah. This happening even as the U.S. launches a new initiative to implement a cease-fire on the ground.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) (voice-over): Anthony Zinni gets straight to work. The special U.S. envoy meeting the Israeli prime minister shortly after his arrival in the region. Talks with the Palestinian leader likely in the next 24 hours.
The conflict that Zinni is attempting to end still rages on the ground. Palestinian militants blew up a tank escorting a convoy of Jewish settlers in the Gaza Strip. Three Israeli soldiers were killed. A number of armed Palestinians were killed in separate clashes with Israeli forces in the West Bank. And a known militant leader was among a group targeted by an Israeli combat helicopter, another assassination, say Palestinians, the targeted killing of a man who had carried out terror attacks says Israel.
Stringent Israeli controls on the movement of Palestinians remain in place throughout the West Bank and Gaza, with Israeli forces still deployed in large swathes of nominally Palestinian-controlled territory.
Israeli forces that have taken up positions throughout the West Bank of Ramallah since Tuesday have begun withdrawing. This following the largest Israeli troop deployment in two decades, which Israel described as a success. Palestinians insist it was a brutal invasion that left the infrastructure of the city in tatters. While both sides have welcomed Zinni's arrival, neither side appears in a mood to talk about a truce.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): Well, for the latest as to what's happening in Ramallah, I'm joined by Ben Wedeman who is in the West Bank city -- Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Mike. Well, as can you see, I'm not longer illuminated by a flashlight as we've had to do for the last few days for fear of snipers shooting into this office. That's because there are reports, and these have been confirmed by Palestinian security sources, that several dozen Israeli tanks and armored personnel carriers have left most of the city.
However, there are reports of clashes in the northern and western edges of Ramallah between Palestinians and Israelis. Now, according to Israeli officials, the pull out from Ramallah will be complete by Friday morning. However, Israeli public radio is reporting that Israeli troops will remain encircling the city of Ramallah, which might not be to the liking of the Palestinians.
And certainly so far, Palestinian reaction to the news of the pull out has been mixed. We have heard an interview with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat in which he said that this pull out, this Israeli pull out is a trick for the propaganda of the Israelis. So very unclear at this point to what extent, how far the Israelis will pull out. But so far it appears that they've pulled out enough to reduce some of the intense fighting that we've witnessed in this city -- Mike. HANNA: Ben, where have the Israeli forces been concentrated in the days that they've been in the city? Have they been spread throughout the area on the outskirts?
WEDEMAN: They've stayed mostly out of the western section of the city. What we've seen is a real concentration around El Amari refugee camp, which is in the southern part of the city. That camp, which is inhabited by about 8,000 people, was really surrounded by the Israelis on all sides. And we saw them gradually move closer and closer to the central part of the city around the main roundabout, El Manara (ph) as it's called.
And that was the scene yesterday of some very intense fighting. And that was where one Italian journalist was killed in the fighting, the first journalist to be killed in the Palestinian uprising since it erupted in September 2000.
Since then we've seen them gradually during today pull back further and further and eventually begin to really pull out of the main central sectors of the city. But according to Palestinians we've spoken with around the city, they're not completely out yet. And as I said, it won't be until Friday morning that they will, according to Israeli officials, pull out completely -- Mike.
HANNA: Thank you. We'll have more from Ben Wedeman later on in the program.
U.S. special envoy Anthony Zinni has visited the region twice before and each time his missions ended in failure. Why then should there be any expectations that this time his mission could result in success?
Well, here's CNN's Sheila MacVicar.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President's Bush's envoy wades back into the morass of the Middle East. This is a quagmire General Zinni knows well. He has left in frustration in the past, his mission overwhelmed by violence.
This time, his orders are to fight to the finish. He may be the only hopeful person in all Israel and the Palestinian territories. In the weeks since President Bush decided to send the general back here, at least 136 people have died. Israelis dead at a cafe in Jerusalem. Palestinians killed in helicopter strikes in Canyunas (ph). Israeli teenagers murdered in a Gaza study hall. Palestinians dead in Jabalya. Israeli motorists shot dead behind the wheels of their cars. Palestinians shot dead in fire fights in Ramallah. The violence has gone on and on.
The paradox is also the best hope. It may be that there has now been so much violence, so much death, that the two sides are now so close to all out war, that maybe, just maybe, they are ready to stop.
LESLIE SUSSER, "JERUSALEM REPORT": Both sides are now so close to going over the edge and getting involved in some massive conflagration, which neither of them wants, that this is something that Zinni could use perhaps to gain some kind of momentum.
MACVICAR: But the first thing the general will hear from the Palestinians is that there can be no progress on anything as long as Israel's massive force remains in the heart of Palestinian cities.
NABIL ABU RUDEINEH, ARAFAT SPOKESMAN: Without their immediate withdrawal, there won't be any connection or any meeting with any Israeli before they stop their aggression.
MACVICAR: This war, says Prime Minister Sharon, was to bring an end to Palestinian violence, to stop the militants and those who would attack Israeli civilians.
RA'ANAN GISSIN, SHARON SPOKESMAN: As long as the attacks continue, as long as we have those alerts of terrorist attacks and suicide bombers attempting to penetrate into Israel and to increase the toll of innocent men, women and children, we will be in our right to defend ourself and to take all the necessary military action and security measures in order to prevent such attacks and defend our citizens.
MACVICAR (on camera): There are hints in the Israeli press quoting Israeli defense force sources that Israel's prime minister may be ready to call for a truce and to withdrawal his forces. While that would ease the tension, it is a long way from dealing with the central issue of the occupation. And that alone will not bring peace.
(voice-over): And there are Palestinian militants like those of Hamas who would derail the whole process. The founder of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, said on Thursday, "Israel has lined Palestinian streets with blood. Our people will resist. Israelis will pay for their crimes."
Israeli security sources believe Yasser Arafat could hold the key. Some of the recent attacks have been carried out by militants linked to his movement. An important question: If Mr. Sharon ordered a withdrawal, would Mr. Arafat reign in his militia?
But as the general begins his meetings, there is deep skepticism here about American motives. The U.S. may have reengaged, but many believe it is to protect other American interests, like Vice President Cheney's attempts at coalition building in the Middle East against Iraq.
HANAN ASHRAWI, MEMBER OF PALESTINIAN COUNCIL: If this is just a matter of cosmetics, to create the impression that the U.S. is involved or is onboard or that they do have a plan without actually dealing with the concrete issues of ending the siege, ending the incursions, putting an end to the Israeli escalations, then they're not going to get anywhere.
MACVICAR: Israel's government and Palestinian leaders have repeatedly said that in the end, the solution of this conflict ends not with force, but with diplomacy and politics. As long as both sides let the guns and the bombers do the talking, there will be no progress and no peace.
So for the general, one step at a time, and the first step is a very big one.
Sheila MacVicar, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HANNA: We'll have more in LIVE FROM JERUSALEM right after the break.
ANNOUNCER: Next, battlefield Ramallah. We'll head back to one of the hottest and deadliest spots in the fighting between Israelis and Palestinians. And later, from Palestinians...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you saw tanks around you and bullets from over my house and from everywhere, of course I'm scared.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And Israelis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are afraid. People are afraid. Very afraid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The fear factor. LIVE FROM JERUSALEM is back in two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza in June 1967, after defeating attacking Arab armies in the six-day war. Israel also occupied Syria's Golan Heights, and Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. Israel returned the Sinai Peninsula in 1979 as part of the Camp David treaty. Palestinians were granted local authority in parts of the West Bank and most of Gaza in 1994, following the Oslo accords.
HANNA: Since the beginning of this month, Israel has ratcheted up its military operations, focusing in particular on refugee camps in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, which Israel says are hot beds of terror. The operations have been greeted with outrage by Palestinians and international condemnation. Here's CNN's Ben Wedeman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN (voice-over): Before the pullout at the entrance of Ramallah's main refugee camp, a familiar face-off -- Palestinian children against an Israeli tank, an uneven, almost surreal confrontation. For three days, El Amari refugee camp was under around-the-clock curfew. Israeli forces rounded up and took away most of the men. Camp residents witnessed some of the most intense fighting since Israeli forces entered Ramallah earlier this week. They hardly welcomed the return of their old enemies.
"We've gone back 40 years," says Saeed Nimar (ph). "Camp residents tell of Israeli soldiers going from house to house, ransacking room after room."
They came three times to the home of Abu Amjed Tarifi (ph), turning everything upside down and inside out. "The soldiers," he says, "did more than just that."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, he take it, take it. Telephone, camera, (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And my bucket (ph) of about 3,000 chickens. Believe me. And 170 (ph) (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Everything, everything they are taking.
WEDEMAN: The Israeli army denies its soldiers have engaged in theft. An Israeli army spokesman says bomb workshops, weapons and a large quantity of ammunition were found in the camp. Israel claimed similar finds in many of the areas it entered during its recent offensive, but that offensive cost the Palestinians around 150 lives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: Now it appears, according to reports we're just getting that Israeli forces are still in the area of that refugee camp -- Mike.
HANNA: Ben, a question that's been posed in the Israeli media: From your observations, do you think that these operations deter terror or provoke it?
WEDEMAN: Well, certainly the reaction of ordinary Palestinians has been one of anger and indignation at these operations. There's a feeling that the Israelis over the last two weeks have really run roughshod over not only refugee camps but really the pride of the West Bank, which is Ramallah, the capital, the economic, the cultural, the social capital of the West Bank. And certainly one gets the impression that if anything people are more angry, more resentful and more indignant about what Israel has done over the last two weeks. It certainly isn't going to lower the temperature here -- Mike.
HANNA: Ben Wedeman in Ramallah, thank you very much indeed for joining us. LIVE FROM JERUSALEM will return in a couple of minutes.
ANNOUNCER: Next, prospects for peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you think a cease-fire would work here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
QUESTION: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never. Because they can't do it, you know, the Palestinians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Pessimism from Israelis and from Palestinians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Do you hope yes, or?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hope.
QUESTION: Are you confident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but I don't believe (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The talk in the streets when LIVE FROM JERUSALEM returns.
For more, including a history of the conflict and a virtual tour of the region, head to our special section, "Mideast Struggle for Peace." It's all at CNN.com. The AOL keyword is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNA: The voices of ordinary Israelis and Palestinians right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: In 1994, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, Israeli foreign minister Shimon Perez and Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for their efforts to create peace in the Middle East.
HANNA: Well, the politicians argue when the soldiers and the militants fight. In the middle are ordinary people, Israelis and Palestinians, seeking only some kind of resolution. CNN's Michael Holmes went to the streets to hear the people's doubts and hopes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Let's start in Tel Aviv, the cosmopolitan heart of Israel. The beaches, night life, high tech industry. It's often called the Miami of the Middle East. For a long time it was felt that people here didn't feel the bombs and bullets the way people in other parts of Israel do, that it was somehow safer. Well, not anymore. There are attacks here as recently as last week. And people in this city are watching the Zinni visit very closely indeed. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are afraid. People are very afraid. My motto is your head will be always above the water. Don't sink.
HOLMES: You say you don't want to ride the bus for your own safety?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean even though the places that are blowing up now are coffee shops and what have you, but you know. Yes, it's not a way of life.
HOLMES: What are you as an Israeli hoping for from the Zinni visit?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I hope he can really do some changes around here. Because the situation is totally out of control.
HOLMES: Do you think a cease-fire would work here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nope.
HOLMES: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never. Because they can't do it, you know, the Palestinians.
HOLMES: You don't think they could stick to a cease-fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
HOLES: What about Israelis? Do you think they could stick to a cease-fire?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think so.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The leadership on both sides is very blood thirsty and very aggressive. You kill one of ours, we'll kill ten of yours. You kill ten of ours, we'll kill 100 of yours -- back and forth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We only want to live here in peace. And I --
HOLMES: You guest used to the sound of helicopters, do you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I enjoy the sound.
HOLMES: You feel protected when you hear that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no choice. If they beat us once, we're kaput.
HOLMES: Do you feel that a cease-fire is possible. And would you like to see one?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are willing to cease-fire, and it doesn't look like they are. I mean, I wish. HOLMES: To get the Palestinian perspective of the prospects of this visit, perhaps no better place to come than an Israeli check point leading from one of the Palestinian territories. We're at an entry and exit point from Bethlehem. The people here are very accustomed to the sound of tank shells and bullets. They're also very familiar with Anthony Zinni's visit, and they share the same hopes an fears as people in Tel Aviv.
HOLMES: You don't think he will achieve a cease-fire?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am scared. I am sorry.
HOLMES: Why are you scared? Are you scared?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course. Of course. When you saw tanks around you and bullets from over my house to everywhere, of course, I'm scared.
HOLMES: Do you want them gone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want them gone and we want them gone for good, not gone for one week, for two days after Zinni go back to America -- and they come back, return back.
HOLMES: What would you say to Mr. Zinni if you could speak with him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speak with him? To do everything he can to stop Arafat because we are tired very, very much.
HOLMES: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't feel good.
HOLMES: You don't feel good?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Because he come many times, he don't make anything.
HOLMES: So maybe this time you hope yes or --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hope.
HOLMES: Are you confident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I don't believe he make something.
HOLMES: You don't believe he'll make anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God first and Zinni second. God give us for life and God take us also. We should not fight each other.
HOLMES: Do you think it will work?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: En shahla (ph). It will be.
HOLMES: En shahla.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope so...
HOLMES: God willing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... it will come.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HANNA: The voices of people caught up in extraordinary circumstances beyond their control. Hoping against hope that this time a truce, a cease-fire is more than the mouthings of leaders who appear unable or unwilling to bring it about.
That's it for LIVE FROM JERUSALEM. I'm Mike Hanna. Good night.
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