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Afghanistan: Operation Anaconda is Over, What is the Final Body Count?; British Come to Afghanistan
Aired March 19, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, HOST: I'm Martin Savidge in Bagram, Afghanistan. Coming up tonight on LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, it is the end of the road for me and the end of the line for Operation Anaconda, but the question still lingers -- what was the final body count? And the British are coming; the British are coming to Afghanistan. How many and what will they do? And CNN's Walt Rodgers takes a look at this country, referred to as the Wild, West of the east. It all begins right here, right now, LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. F.L. HAGENBECK, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: The world's a safer place than it was on the 2nd of March. Operation Anaconda is over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Victory in the valley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: I came out here with 35 guys, 35 guys are coming back. So it was definitely a success.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But the battle is far from over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (voice-over): The hunt continues. The coalition war against terrorists in Afghanistan is not over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: The Cobra, a gunship in the sky, a key tool in Operation Anaconda. We'll speak with a pilot back from the battle. Overcrowding so bad there's no room to sleep.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty or 60 men in one room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: We'll go behind bars at a prison for Taliban fighters. LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, Martin Savidge.
SAVIDGE: Good evening. It is just after 5:30 in the morning here in Bagram, Afghanistan, and we have a lot to talk about in this very special LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.
Operation Anaconda is now in the history books, but there are other military operations that are still ongoing, have been ongoing here in Afghanistan and there is news to report from one of them as of Monday and right now. The U.S. Pentagon is reporting that a Special Forces helicopter referred to as an MH-53, that's a Special Operations helicopter, experienced what is described as a hard landing.
As a result of that hard landing, at least four of the six crewmembers were injured, one of them seriously. The impact of that helicopter hitting the ground so severe that it actually broke off the tail. The helicopter was reportedly on a Special Operations resupply mission and that is when it went down. The Pentagon not revealing exactly where it went down because the rescue operation to retrieve the crew and try to retrieve the helicopter is still ongoing.
Operation Anaconda though is no longer an ongoing mission. It is all over. It is finally part of history, one of the biggest battles of the Afghan War so far, but there are still questions, questions being asked -- exactly how many did die in the Valley of Death? CNN was there for the final hours.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): After nearly 19 days, Operation Anaconda came to an end almost in the same place it began, in a strategic piece of high ground known as Ginger Pass. The setting was home to the heaviest and bloodiest fighting of the campaign. CNN photographer David Albritain (ph) spent the last hours of the operation with U.S. and Canadian soldiers, continuing to seek out remaining Taliban and al Qaeda forces and destroying caves and bunkers.
Even at the very end, the job is difficult and potentially dangerous. Soldiers scale steep, sometimes snow covered terrain climbing up to 10,000 feet. Resupply helicopters precariously balance their loads on the nearby ridges.
The Shah-e-Kot Valley spreads out below them, an area that eventually became known as the Valley of Death. The man in charge of Operation Anaconda said it had been cleared of enemy fighters, but General F.L. Hagenbeck still found himself defending claims that hundreds of Taliban and al Qaeda had been killed.
HAGENBECK: I stand by that number. I'll give you the -- I think that's a reasonable estimate.
SAVIDGE: Military leaders say the body count is based on a number of different sources, surveillance aircraft, detainees and coalition soldiers who engaged the enemy. Hagenbeck cited one specific example where a group of 40 Taliban or al Qaeda men tracked from the air to a mud hut during the first days of fighting.
HAGENBECK: We called in an air strike on them and at the conclusion, all we saw was mud. When we went down there on the ground with the GPS where that strike went in, we found in excess of 40 pairs of shoes outside that mud hut. And the assumption is that 40 men went inside there for -- probably to pray since their shoes were laying outside and all we saw were a couple of body parts sticking out from a 15-foot high mud heap.
SAVIDGE: But Anaconda came with a price, 11 coalition soldiers lost their lives in the bitter fighting. Six U.S. soldiers died in an ambush around this CH-47 helicopter. Still, the last soldiers of the biggest battle so far of the war say they were good to be part of it.
SGT. RAYMOND ARGIGA, U.S. ARMY: It feels you, you were actually a part of something, you know. You know, you're -- 20 years from now, you know, you're going to read about this probably in the history books. You know, who knows when I have kids, you know, and my kids are probably going to be talking about this.
SAVIDGE: Back at their Bagram base, other soldiers relax after the mission's end, now with free time to clean boots, weapons or just recall the fight.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: I thought we killed an operative when I first came up on him.
SAVIDGE: Others have already left. And for first time in over two weeks, the flight line is almost silent. But commanders stress Anaconda was not the last battle of the Afghan War. The operation may be finished, they say, but not the job the soldiers came here to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: The cobra attack helicopter was one of the primary weapons in the air that was being used during Operation Anaconda. And the two men that join me now as well as the helicopter behind us was part of that operation. I'm joined by Captain Phillip Eilertson.
Nice to meet you, sir. Very good to see you.
And also, Captain Brian Achford.
Thank you both for joining us. You're with the U.S. Marine Corps.
Phillip, tell us a bit about the aircraft here.
CAPT. PHILLIP EILERTSON, COBRA PILOT: Well, first of all, it's called the AH-1 Whiskey Super Cobra. It's an attack helicopter the Marine Corps has. We have two seats, the front and the -- or the front and the rear.
SAVIDGE: You sit up in the front area here?
EILERTSON: Yes, both pilots are qualified to sit in either seat. Primarily, the front seat is the gunner. It fires the missiles. We have a tow missile system, which is optically tracked to a wire guided missile, used from about a 1,00 to -- or 500 to about 4,000 meters.
SAVIDGE: Now, the missiles are where on the aircraft?
EILERTSON: They sit on the outboard stations. You have you two stations on the other side as well as over here. Missiles sit on the outboard station. What we have here is a hell fire missile. It's a laser-guided, kind of top down missile that's fired from about a 1,000 to 8,000 meters, used primarily against tanks, bunkers and other vehicles. That's what we use them for as well as the tow missile.
SAVIDGE: Now, Brian, you fly or you sit where in the aircraft?
CAPT. BRIAN ACHFORD, COBRA PILOT: We take -- we take equal time sitting in both seats. The -- you can fly equally well from either seat, but from the rear seat, the pilot is better set up to fly the aircraft and deploy the rockets and the gun system, whereas the front pilot is the manager of the sensor sweep and also, the missile system.
SAVIDGE: Now, both of you were up there for Operation Anaconda, OK. Describe for me, Brian, what are the conditions like flying, especially up in high altitude in that difficult terrain?
ACHFORD: Well, I know we've never -- and a lot of pilots in the Marine Corps have never operated the helicopters from -- the floor of the operating is about 8,300 feet up to -- well, over 10,000 feet. And we're operating up there on a daily basis with full combat loads and it's -- the helicopters performed amazingly well. And our maintainers have done a good job of keeping them flying for us. And it's really been quite a step for us.
SAVIDGE: Phillip, what it was like for you to be a part of Operation Anaconda and part of Operation Enduring Freedom?
EILERTSON: It was a pleasure. We were off the coast on a boat waiting to do something, take our part here. We got the call to come up here to help out the forces up here. We received that call well. We were very pleased to come up here and help out. It's been a pure joy to help out in Operation Enduring Freedom and -- because of the attack on September 11.
SAVIDGE: Brian, I got to ask the same thing of you. What's it like for you to be here in Afghanistan now?
ACHFORD: It's very rewarding. We thought this was where we were coming when we first came out on December 1. And we watched our other Marine brethren here taking their part and it's just been an incredible experience to finally get up here and get in the action, so to speak.
SAVIDGE: Well, I want to say congratulations. Thank you...
ACHFORD: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: ... to you both. EILERTSON: Thank you.
SAVIDGE: I have to say it is very reassuring when you're out there on the front lines to see the Cobra helicopters flying overhead and putting down the suppression fire.
The Marines aren't the only troops that are here, there are U.S. forces, obviously, and then there are the coalition forces. Now the British are here, but they're coming in greater numbers. Kevin Dunn files this report on who's coming and just what they will do.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEVIN DUNN, ITV NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two hundred and fifty Royal Marines are already aboard HMS Ocean in the Arabian Sea. These Royal Navy pictures show them in training yesterday, packed up by six 105-millimeter light field guns. And equipped with area Chinook helicopters, the first commandos could be on the ground at Bagram Airbase, north of Kabul, by the end of the week.
LT. COL. NEAL PECKHAM, BRITISH FORCES SPOKESMAN: Well, the United Kingdom has always said that it stands shoulder to shoulder with the United States in its fight against international terrorism and it's along those lines that a decision has been made.
DUNN: The entire force consisting of some 1,700 troops will be operational by mid-April. Their job will be to track down the remaining pockets of Taliban and al Qaeda fighters.
The Marines are being deployed because of their expertise in winter warfare and mountain fighting.
Kevin Dunn, ITV News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: Many Taliban fighters that were captured in the early stages of this war are still being held. Some people refer to them as the forgotten soldiers. CNN's Nic Robertson went to prison to hear their stories.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Emaciated and pale, prisoners crowd into a tiny cell in Sherbagan (ph) Jail. Captured four months ago by pro-Afghan government forces, these detainees claim to have been fighting for the Taliban not al Qaeda. A handful of prisoners have been taken by U.S. officials for questioning, 3,155 remain. Most we talked to complain overcrowding is so bad there isn't enough room to sleep.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our room is shared with 50 or 60 men in one room.
ROBERTSON: Hiatolah (ph) continues, explaining they have no news of developments in Afghanistan in the last four months. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't get news. Yeah.
ROBERTSON: A prison guard nearby does not deny the claim.
In a nearby cell, Meerwis (ph) demonstrates on Mohammed's arm, the effects of their poor diet. Two meals a day, they say. Meerwis (ph) shows his lunch.
MEERWIS (ph): This. One in here.
ROBERTSON (on-camera): This is for one man?
MEERWIS (ph): Yes.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Diarrhea, dysentery headaches and constipation are their primary ailments, they say, and complaint of insufficient drugs to combat sickness.
(on-camera): The prisoners here are only a small fraction of those captured in Afghanistan in the last six months. Apparently, unimportant enough to warrant detailed questioning by the United States. Their future, however, remains uncertain.
(voice-over): While there is little sympathy for their plight, guards appear compassionate about the conditions.
UNIDENTIFIED GUARD (through translator): This jail is made for 1,200 people. So it's overcrowded. And we don't have enough money for more food.
ROBERTSON: Most guards here suspect their captives are unrepentant al Qaeda sympathizers and they also fear such close containment unites them further.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Sherbagan (ph) Jail, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next, a Wild, Wild West.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): "At night, there's no control here," this shopkeeper complains, "Everyone stays inside, afraid of robberies, kidnapping or murder."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A lack of law and order in the Afghan countryside.
And later...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: We knew going in that there was no way to leave and for the good or the bad or the whatever, you were there until the outcome was finally decided. And I think that is something that sticks in your head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Reflections from the front lines. LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN is back in two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Afghanistan's interim cabinet is made up of 11 Pashtuns, eight Tajiks, five Hazaras, three Uzbeks and three people from other ethnic groups.
SAVIDGE: An interim government took control of Afghanistan in early December. It is centrally located in Kabul. Some would say it is also centrally isolated. CNN's Walter Rodgers takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROGERS: An Afghan policeman guards the southern entrance to the capital, Kabul. This thin, blue, plastic rope speaks to the government's tentative hold on power, a reminder the Afghan government's grip does not extend much beyond Kabul's city limits.
"We don't know which side has authority. We can't understand who's the government, this side or that," he said, asking, "Who's in charge?"
Interim Prime Minister Hamid Karzai says he is, but in charge of what? Privately, he begs for international troops to help control lawlessness and ethnic tensions outside the capital. Publicly, Karzai preaches all is going swimmingly.
HAMID KARZAI, CHAIRMAN, AFGHAN INTERIM ADMINISTRATION: The provinces have been very keen to come and be part of the central administration. There's not a big problem. Yes, the commanders are there.
ROGERS: Call them what you will. In Durwani (ph), a few kilometers south of Kabul, we were warned if we went one meter further no one could guarantee our safety.
"At night, there's no control here," this shopkeeper complains. "Everyone stays inside afraid of robberies, kidnapping or murder."
Afghanistan is the size of Texas. The coalition government in Kabul is an island surrounded by warlords, local commanders and simmering with ethnic strife. In the south and east, Pashtuns are still sympathetic to the Taliban. In the north, Tajiks and Uzbeks are more loyal to their local commanders. In the center are the Hazaras. In the west, more Tajiks and Uzbeks but loyal to different tribal leaders.
(on-camera): Afghanistan never had a tightly woven central government, but U.S. officials believe in the short term they can work with a loose confederation here at least until the loya jirga or tribal counsel meets in June to craft a new government.
(voice-over): Still, any Afghan government faces an untamed wild west element except instead of six guns and horses, there are Chinese bicycles and semiautomatic rifles with the odd camel thrown in for good measure.
In this town, just two hours north of the capital, Kabul, we were told, "The Northern Alliance controls this area. The Northern Alliance is the government here."
Privately, some Afghans say it is only the U.S. military presence, which keeps the Kabul government in power. This government soldier warns there is still danger in Afghanistan because he said, al Qaeda are still out there. They just change clothes and shave their beards.
There is no shortage of hope in Afghanistan these days. Yet, the country seems to teeter between the 14th and 21st centuries and it will require an adroit balancing act to save it from falling backward again.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next, covering deadly conflicts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And I walked inside this helicopter and it's essentially a flying bomb and you've got all that ammunition and you know that one stray bullet would turn the thing into a massive fire and your chances of getting out are pretty slim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A war reporter's notebook when LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN returns.
For a look at other major stories from the front lines and the home front, check out our special section, "War Against Terror." It's all at CNN.com. The AOL keyword is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Anderson Cooper. Coming up on "THE POINT," is it right for schools to require random drug tests for students who want to take part in after school activities? Plus, how much of you should airport security officials be allowed to see? A new scanning system reveals more than you probably bargained for, is it really necessary? And the government's big bust of child porn on the Internet. Big success or just the tip of the iceberg? "THE POINT" is less than 10 minutes away.
SAVIDGE: When we come back on LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, a farewell of sort for me, but Afghanistan may never fully leave me. We'll take a look back at some remarkable memories in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Bagram Air Base, north of Kabul, was the staging area for Operation Anaconda. Some 4,000 U.S. and allied forces are stationed there. The airfield was a base of operations for the Soviets during their occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s.
SAVIDGE: If you think that we have done good work while we have been here in Afghanistan, well, it hasn't all been just me. There's been a big team that I have had that have helped me along the way -- Scott McWhinny, the man right now behind the camera and then, James Payne (ph), the engineer, Thomas Essenceler (ph) right now on the phone back to Atlanta as my producer and Alan Monday (ph), the satellite truck engineer. They took risks to bring you the video that we have shown you and they have worked very hard and my deepest gratitude to all of them for making me look good.
It has been an incredible time and it has been now 80 plus days. I take a look back and remember some of that time in what we call a Reporter's Notebook.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: ... and essentially what it meant was that we came in before the mission began, spent about a week working with the soldiers, living with them, eating with them, training with them, going into military briefs, having full access to everything, the planning, the intelligence reports. We knew everything before it was going to happen and that was such a rare and remarkable opportunity as a journalist.
And then, of course, you go on the mission. Probably the first two times when we tried to fly in on the CH-47s after Operation Anaconda got underway, were the most fearful for me, once in the daytime and then once at night, because you're packed into that helicopter, literally one body on top of another. You're flying often in the darkness. You're hearing the reports coming in from the front lines, heavy fighting, that the LZ is under attack. And you're thinking, my God, you know, in about 60 seconds I'm going to land right in the middle of this and I'm locked inside this helicopter and it's essentially a flying bomb and you've got all that ammunition and you know that one stray bullet could turn the thing into a massive fire and your chances of getting out are pretty slim.
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: Where is that fire coming from?
SAVIDGE: Then after that, I suppose, yeah, the mortar fire and the gunfire. I've covered conflicts before, but always from the periphery. I mean I've been shot at and mortared and missiled, but you were always sort of on the outside looking in and you always had an escape route. You had a vehicle that was there and usually a driver and you knew the right way to get out and if things got too hairy, you left.
When knew going in that there was no way to leave. And for the good or the bad or the whatever, you were there until the outcome was finally decided. And I think that is something that sticks in your head. But it's always been a great experience. I mean I look at the remarkable journey that I've done. I've now gone from spending a month and a half in the man-made canyons of New York City and the horror of Ground Zero and then to go from that to the valleys where the fighting was raging in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: It has been really an incredible time. And the best part of all was along the way I've been able to talk to all of you either on television or through the Internet and you have e-mailed or told me your concerns, your compliments and even passed along your prayers. Thank you very much.
I'll leave you now with words of the 10th Mountain Division, their motto, the same words that were routed by the firefighters, the New York police officers and the emergency workers on that terrible day in the twisted building of the trade tower, their motto, "To the top."
I'm Martin Savidge. We'll see you down the road. LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.
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