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Afghanistan: British Troops Rushed to Country; Military Trials May Be Used to Try Detainees; How Stable Is Mazar-e Sharif?
Aired March 20, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NIC ROBERTSON, HOST: Tonight, we'll have a look at British troops being rushed to the region. We'll hear about the possibility of military trials being -- that may be used to try al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners. And we'll look at stability here in the north. That's all here in LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN.
ANNOUNCER: Anaconda's over, but the fighting's not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: Terrorists using machine guns, rocket- propelled grenades and mortars attacked coalition forces in Khowst.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: A sign of the changing times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): At a sacred shrine, which will be the focus of Afghan new year's celebrations, ethnic Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara soldiers combine forces to secure the area. It is an operation almost unthinkable until recently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Dealing with the dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): "We have seen many casualties and lost children," he said. In fact, he and his wife have had four of their seven small children swept away by disease.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, Nic Robertson.
ROBERTSON: Tonight, LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN comes from Mazar-e Sharif, the most northerly city in Afghanistan. In a few hours, the citizens of this city and those who have gathered here from the rest of the country will begin to celebrate Afghanistan's new year. This city has been the power base of a former warlord, Abdul Rashid Dostum. And later in this program, we'll look at how his power could affect the stability in this country.
First, however, we look 300 miles south of here, where fighting over Tuesday night in the town of Khowst killed three Afghan fighters and according to U.S. officials, injured one U.S. serviceman. Tension has been building in that city between rival Afghan forces, both vying for U.S. patronage. So far, however, no word on why the U.S. troops were attacked, or by whom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. JOHN ROSA, DEPUTY OPERATIONS DIRECTOR, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: The enemy fire seemed to be trying to harass our troops or trying to inflict quick casualties as opposed to conducting a more sustained, deliberate attack. One U.S. service member was wounded in the firefight, in the left arm and he was -- when he was hit by a bullet.
We located -- we pinpointed this -- when the AC-130s came in, one area that a lot of the fire came from. It was a former prison. And we -- the AC-130 inflicted some damage there. Afterwards, the troops went out through the night and looked -- we found spent shell casings and we found blood. We didn't find any bodies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: In December, Khowst was the first town where a U.S. serviceman was killed by hostile fire. Now, in a move to bolster the United States forced deployment here in Afghanistan, the British government is to send 1,700 British soldiers here. It is their biggest deployment -- biggest military deployment since the Gulf War. And some British politicians -- this is giving some British politicians cause for concern. However, the British defense secretary, Geoffrey Hoon, says the deployment makes sense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEOFFREY HOON, BRITISH DEFENSE SECRETARY: A decision to deploy Four, Five Commando make sense. They're able to deploy quickly, having been held at high readiness on HMS Ocean in the Arabian Sea and in their bases here in the United Kingdom. They're also trained to be able to maneuver quickly across difficult terrain. The raw Marines are expert in mountain and cold weather warfare. They've trained in this role since the 1970s.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: More on the troops and their mission from Jo Andrews.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JO ANDREWS, ITB NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These pictures released by the Navy this morning show Royal Marines from Four, Five Commando onboard HMS Ocean, preparing for the mission to Afghanistan. They're manage 1,700 troops on their way to the area, as part of a U.S. led operation to flush out the remnants of al Qaeda and Taliban forces. And in an interview with the Royal Navy film crew, one of their commanding officers said they were now more than ready.
COL. TIM CHICKEN, HSO COMMANDO: We've been embarked in HSO Ocean for a little over a month. And in that time, we've been able to maintain a very high standard of fitness, individual and low level collective on skills. So as far as I'm concerned, we are -- we're probably at the peak at the moment.
ANDREWS: The Marines seen here training at their base in Elcroque (ph) have been chosen for their specialist skills in commando operations over very rugged terrain.
Jo Andrews, ITB News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: On Thursday, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is expected to announce details about military trials that could be used to try al Qaeda and Taliban detainees currently held in Camp X- ray, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The move was first announced by President -- the potential move was first announced by President Bush several months ago and has been causing controversy ever since. CNN's military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us now live from the Pentagon with details -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nic, that announcement is set for tomorrow afternoon Washington time. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld scheduled to lay out, as he says, all of the pieces of this plan that have taken months to put together -- the legal process for handling members of al Qaeda and Taliban, who are, as you said, being held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Now, Pentagon sources indicate that probably only a small number of these detainees will actually face a military commission. And the Pentagon insists that the legal process it has put together is consistent with the U.S. system of justice and has taken into account some of the concerns of its critics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA CLARKE, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: I think, when people see the whole thing, and hear the questions get answered, I think they'll say, you know what, that's a pretty good product and that is a fair and a balanced and a just system. And that's one that the American people can be proud of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Essentially, what the Pentagon has come up with, is a system that's very similar to the U.S. system of military court martial. It will be an open trial, except for the parts that have to be closed to protect national security. The defendants will be considered innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. They will have access to an attorney, a military attorney. They can hire a civilian attorney if they want to help them out. And they will also have -- to be a unanimous decision of this military panel, if they're going to impose the death penalty. Nevertheless, they don't have the full rights of appeal that U.S. military personnel have in a court martial. And some are civil libertarians and civil right activists are still not happy with the process, among those, U.S. congressional representative, John Conyers, a Democrat from Michigan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN CONYERS (D), MICHIGAN: They want to get easier convictions. When you have a military tribunal, there are very few people that don't get convicted in them, just as a matter of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, these critics say they're not motivated by any sympathy for terrorists but rather they want to make sure that they protect the rights of future U.S. troops who could be captured by some enemy and possibly suggest to kangaroo trials.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, live at the Pentagon.
ROBERTSON: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.
In Turkey, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney concluded his 12- nation tour of the Middle East and held talks with that Muslim nation on how they could contribute to the Afghan -- to the security in Afghanistan. The vice president says U.S. and Turkey are close to agreeing a plan, whereby Turkey could take over leadership of the international peacekeeping or International Stability and Assistance Force.
The vice president is -- the vice president is concluding a tour of the Middle East, a tour to build a coalition for the war on terrorism.
Here, in Afghanistan, New Year's Day is soon to be celebrated. It has been an occasion whereby the Afghanistan's interim president -- interim leader, Hamid Karzai, has visited the country. It was an -- has visited Mazar-e Sharif in the north of Afghanistan. It is an -- it is his first visit to this city and an opportunity for him to cement his power on the region. We were at the airport when he arrived.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Joking, as they stride across the runway, Afghanistan's leader exchanges friendly words with a commander who could potentially be one of his biggest enemies. Hamid Karzai is on his first visit to Mazar-e-Sharif, as the country's interim leader. It's a sign of changing times that Abdul Rashid Dostum was there to meet him with a smile.
HAMID KARZAI, CHAIRMAN, AFGHAN INTERIM ADMINISTRATION: It's a very nice visit. It's a traditional visit. Tomorrow, we'll have the big ceremony for the New Year and I've been planning this for a long time.
ROBERTSON: Dostum, an ethnic Uzbek, controlled this northerly region for seven years before the Taliban took over in 1998. He has, in the past, been called a warlord, a characterization he denies. His power here is not in doubt and it took swift political footwork by Karzai last December to convince Dostum central government was in everyone's interests.
GEN. ABDUL RASHID DOSTUM (through translator): We support the interim government and I personally invite Mr. Karzai and members of his cabinet to Mazar-e Sharif.
ROBERTSON: Karzai's apparent popularity will not be lost on Dostum, who already shares power here with two other ethnic leaders.
At a sacred shrine, which will be the focus of Afghan New Year's celebrations, ethnic Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara soldiers combine forces to secure the area. It is an operation almost unthinkable, until recently, because tensions between them had been so bad, commanders were forced to sign a disarmament agreement.
GEN. ATTA MOHAMMAD, ETHNIC TAJIK LEADER (through translator): Forty percent of fighters are still armed in the city and we are working to get them out.
ROBERTSON: During winter months, snow on the high Solong Pass, all but closes off the only hard-surface road, connecting Mazar-e Sharif to the capital and the south. The mountain pass helps bolster the sense of separation many here in the north feel.
Mazar-e Sharif was the first city the ethnic, Pashtun, Taliban fled during coalition bombing last year. Ethnic Pashtuns here are still bearing the brunt of local animosity towards the Taliban. We could find no Pashtuns here willing to speak publicly about their problems. Privately, however, they talk of abuse and discrimination. The new leadership here, say Pashtun grievances are being addressed.
MOHAMMAD MOHAQIQ, ETHNIC HAZARA LEADER (through translator): Pashtuns do have problems because the Taliban were cruel to the people. So, there may be soldiers who do bad things. We are trying to help.
ROBERTSON: In the heart of the town, most other groups seem to think the current leadership is OK.
"The situation is good," this carpenter says.
Across the street, in the carpet store, Jan says he hopes the different leaders are working together.
"We are tired of war," he says.
Older and perhaps wiser, Mohammed explains, "We need the interim government to make sure they do get along because," he says, "All the commanders just want to make themselves more powerful."
Leaders here they say get on just fine and explain disagreements only occur at lower levels.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: For now, at least, the city is calm and the region, relatively safe. Commanders here do see their best interest at this time in working together for the interim government. It's an -- it is an uneasy balance of power that is likely to hold for the next few months, until Afghanistan's loya jirga or grand council meets to, once again, redivide the power here.
When we come back, Afghans get ready to return to school.
ANNOUNCER: Next, in Afghanistan, the school bell rings for both boys and girls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And as a result of what our country and many of our friends have done, girls get to go to school, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But later, no equality when it comes to death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODGERS (voice-over): Only men attend Muslim funerals. Women are even barred from their husband's burials under Islamic law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN is back in two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Twenty years of war have caused the collapse of much of Afghanistan's educational system. Many schools were destroyed and teachers killed. Added to that, the Taliban banned girls from attending public schools during their five years in power.
ROBERTSON: On Saturday, Afghan children return to school. Many of the students will benefit from supplies donated from the United States. On Wednesday, the president and the First Lady at a school in Virginia discussed the donation program. Kelly Wallace, our White House correspondent, joins us now live with details -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Nic. Well, the president is calling on Americans to pitch in and help, help the American Red Cross send school supplies, notebooks and crayons to Afghan children, some going to school for the very first time. The First Lady also toting another program, providing jobs to Afghan women who will go ahead and sew up to three million uniforms for Afghan's schoolchildren.
As you said, Nic, the first family headed outside Washington to an elementary school to talk about the programs. This school, in fact, raising as much as $2,500 to help children in Afghanistan. The administration saying so far more than $4.5 million has been raised by American children so far.
The president using his speech there to say that this campaign is not just about defeating the Taliban and getting the al Qaeda, in his words, on the run, but about liberating Afghanistan and giving freedoms to women, including little girls, the president saying, who were not able to go to school under Taliban rule.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: And the amazing thing about this, and a lot of Americans have trouble understanding this, that for the first time, young girls are going to be going to school in Afghanistan. See, that's hard for us to believe, isn't it? Heck, most of you all after summer dread going back to school. Not all of you, some of you. But there are boys and girls -- there are girls in Afghanistan who dream about getting to go at all. And as a result of what our country and many of our friends have done, girls get to go to school, too. And it's starting this week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: The president telling the kids that the United States is helping rebuild schools in Afghanistan, like the one you see there, rebuilding roads, providing health care to children and their families.
Nic, this was a message, the president directing to American school kids but also directing to critics of the military campaign. The message being the United States is going to be in Afghanistan for a very long time to help prevent terrorists from ever getting a hold of that country again.
Kelly Wallace, CNN, reporting live from the White House.
ANNOUNCER: Next, after decades of war, disease and drought, Afghanistan's graveyards are filling up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODGERS (voice-over): Look at this grave, a child's and unmarked. Sixteen percent of all Afghan babies die in infancy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Dealing with death when LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTSON: Up next, in LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN, how Afghans have become accustomed to burying their dead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ANNOUNCER: People in Iran, Afghanistan and other parts of central Asia observe the New Year on Thursday as a spring celebration of harvest and rebirth. Until banned by the Taliban, it was also traditional for Afghans to head to the cemetery on this day to honor their dead.
ROBERTSON: In the two school years of conflict here, compounded by disease and drought, hundreds of thousands of Afghans have died. As CNN's senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers now reports, the tradition of burial here has become an all-too familiar one.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RODGERS (voice-over): A grave digger claws into the earth. Afghanistan is more familiar with death than most places, after nearly a quarter century of war, dreaded diseases and drought, graveyards have filled up quickly here. Although Amina Johed (ph) was 85, most Afghan women scarcely live half that long.
Only men attend Muslim funerals. Women are even barred from her husband's burials under Islamic law.
Once Johed (ph) is laid to rest, a stone vault is built around her and her husband will pull a string attached to her veil, so only Allah can see the face of the departed.
Islamic law dictates ritual here even Afghanistan's poorest families are obliged to give alms to speed the dead to paradise. Beggars haunt cemeteries, creating funereal free-for-alls.
Afghan children play among the dead, as if they were born to it.
(on-camera): Look at this grave, a child's and unmarked. Sixteen percent of all Afghan babies die in infancy. And next to it, another child's grave, just a little larger. Twenty-eight percent of all Afghan children die before the age of five. Diarrhea and respiratory diseases being the greatest killers.
(voice-over): A generation of war has also seared the psyche of survivors. An Afghan doctor told me his son's first words were "airplane bombs."
And not just children are haunted by death; fighters are intimately acquainted with it, too.
"We have seen many casualties and lost children," he said. In fact, he and his wife have had four of their seven small children swept away by disease.
With death so pervasive, mourning is almost never out of earshot. Yet, Afghan funerals seem as much for the living as the dead. Woulas (ph) breathe fire and brimstone, ever warning doomsday that the Day of Judgment are drawing near.
Afghan graves are deep because the final insult a man's enemies have been known to dig up his corpse and burn it for revenge.
Amid abject poverty, 95 percent of all Afghans can only mark graves with a stone flint. Only the wealthiest can afford proper grave markers. Even then, women remain anonymous. This woman will only be remembered as the wife of Safi Bonnadine (ph). Her husband's name appears on her gravestone because he was a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Muslim.
The vast majority of Afghans, however, are simply laid to rest in primitive, unmarked graves that dot the countryside. And there will be many more as a sixth year of drought threatens this parched and ancient land, inflicting more malnutrition and more death.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, in the Afghan countryside.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: As day breaks here, Afghans are preparing to celebrate Nao Roz or the Afghan New Year. They'll gather in the shrine behind me, to watch a flag raised and hear speeches given in the honor of prosperity and good fortune.
Thank you for watching. I'm Nic Robertson. LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN will be back at the same time tomorrow. Up next, "THE POINT," with Anderson Cooper and for international viewers, please stay tuned for regular programming.
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