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Jerusalem: Middle East Crisis Intensifies; Arab Anger Mounts

Aired April 03, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Battleground Bethlehem. Fighting flares and casualties mount in the biblical city where Jesus was born.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know how many houses, how many injured, how many dead. It's extremely unbelievable what's going on with them these days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: As Israeli tanks move into more West Bank cities, Arab anger mounts.

In Beirut, what was supposed to be a peaceful protest turns into a fierce fight.

As warfare rages, prospects for peace seem more distant every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SARI NUSSEIBEH, PLO REPRESENTATIVE IN JERUSALEM: I think we shouldn't stop trying, but I think, to tell you the truth, honestly, I think we're beyond reaching a political solution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM JERUSALEM, Christiane Amanpour.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST: As Israel's military offensive now enters its seventh day, rage powers into the streets across the Arab world. One of America's closest allies, Egypt, fires off angry letters to the Bush administration warning of serious consequences, and at the same time, scales back its diplomatic relations with Israel.

In the meantime, the streets of Nablus in the West Bank become the latest to rumble to the sound of Israeli tanks as hundreds of tanks, armored vehicles, soldiers and others move in to take control of that city, and try to root out what they call terrorism there.

In Jenin as well, yet another city taken over on the West Bank by Israeli troops. And standoff in Bethlehem, the scene of the birth of Jesus Christ, continues with hundreds of Palestinians holed up inside the Church of The Nativity. CNN's Ben Wedeman has the latest from there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a cold and rainy day, a delegation of Christian leaders tries to convince Israeli soldiers to let them enter Bethlehem. Their goal, to end the standoff at the Church of The Nativity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give us a chance to go and see what we can do. If one of us is hurt, well, we're responsible for our lives, OK? We won't say that you hit us. We will say someone else hit us.

WEDEMAN: They were turned back. Bethlehem has been declared a closed military area. Israeli forces now control most of this ancient town, the birthplace of Christ. They crush everything in their way. The population cowers behind closed doors.

(on-camera): Bethlehem is now under around-the-clock curfew, desperate or reckless, those who dare venture out. This ambulance isn't going anywhere, its drivers fearing for their lives.

(voice-over): In one house, the bodies of a man and woman. The dead are this man's brother and mother, killed on Monday. He's been waiting for an ambulance to take them away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Until now, 27 hours, I am calling...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we don't know how many house, how many injured, how many dead? It's extremely unbelievable what's going on with them these days.

WEDEMAN: At the edge of Bethlehem at the village of Beit Jala, the Israeli curfew is lifted for a few hours, a chance to buy yesterday's bread.

"The only solution is more suicide bombing," says this man. "That's the only way to deter Israel, to deter Sharon."

Another delegation tries to get in, this one with more worldly clout and more success. American, British and Japanese diplomats and security personnel evacuated nationals desperate to get out of Bethlehem, fleeing an unholy war in the Holy Land.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Bethlehem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators poured into the street in Cairo, Iraq and in other Arab capitals, chanting anti- Israeli and anti-American slogans. One of the biggest and most violent demonstrations was in Beirut, which just last week was host to that historic Arab Summit, promising normal relations with Israel. In addition, in an ominous sign that this war could widen, Hezbollah in southern Beirut started attacking Israeli positions in northern Israel. CNN's Brent Sadler reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): It was supposed to be a day of peaceful protest, a venting of anti-Israeli and anti-American sentiment. Students converged on an approach road to the American embassy on the city outskirts. But it quickly turned into a pitch battle after Lebanese security forces blocked their way. Protesters hurled stones at riot police, who forced them back with tear gas and water cannons. Police have orders to use necessary force to prevent them marching on the embassy. It included this officer firing tear gas canisters into the crowd, missing CNN's cameraman, slicing through his jacket.

Student leaders said they were enraged that their own police prevented them demonstrating in front of the embassy.

LOAY SAYAH, STUDENT: You were held out a kilometer and so this is quite frustrating. I mean you're there to make a point to the American diplomats. It wasn't about storming the embassy.

SADLER: But it was suppose to be about protesting Israel's military action against the Palestinians and highlighting a widely held belief here that U.S.-Middle East policy is biased towards Israel.

(on-camera): A message obscured by this brief spell of violence and completely overshadowed by armed clashes between Hezbollah guerrillas and Israeli troops in a disputed border zone at the southern tip of Lebanon.

(voice-over): Hezbollah has suddenly intensified attacks on Israeli troops, occupying the Shever Farms (ph) at the foot of the Golan Heights. The latest clashes coinciding with international efforts to calm rapidly deteriorating security in the border zone, defined by a so-called United Nations blue line.

STAFFAN DI MISTURA, UNITED NATIONS ENVOY: You can imagine how serious we consider this at this very moment when the regional situation is particularly tense and when several other tense moments have been seen along the blue line.

SADLER: Syria, which Israel holds directly responsible for Hezbollah attacks on its forces, began a troop redeployment in Lebanon, raising concerns among many observers here that Hezbollah attacks and Israeli retaliation could open a second front in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NUSSEIBEH: This is a fight in which no side can win militarily over the other. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Next, Christiane goes one-on-one with a top Palestinian representative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR (on-camera): Do you believe suicide bombings are justified?

NUSSEIBEH: No, I don't believe they are morally justified.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM JERUSALEM is back in two minutes.

But first, Israel says its found records in Ramallah showing that the Palestinian Authority was funding suicide bombers. Palestinians say the documents are a forgery. Do you think that the documents are a smoking gun linking Yasser Arafat to terror attacks? To take the quick vote, head to CNN.com. The AOL keyword is CNN. A reminder, this poll is not scientific.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Israeli forces fired tear gas Wednesday at a crowd of more than 2,000 Israeli activists, Jews and Arabs trying to meet with Yasser Arafat and deliver humanitarian supplies to Ramallah.

AMANPOUR: Away from here in Luxembourg, the European Union convened its leadership and took the unusual step of saying that American mediation and policy in the Middle East had failed and that it was time for a new coalition of nations to come up with a new policy.

Earlier this evening, I spoke with Sari Nusseibeh, the PLO representative to Jerusalem. He is at odds and often -- he is often at odds with the Palestinian leadership. And he spoke to me today about what he called counterproductive Palestinian moves in this intifada, and he said he believed that both Israel and the Palestinians have given up on political way out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NUSSEIBEH: Well, I'd say that the party that's given up on politics primarily is the Israeli government, and that it has decided to use violence in order to achieve its ends.

On the Palestinian side, also, at the level of the masses, the people, the grassroot movements and, indeed, in the Arab world at large, I think people have come to the conclusion that the time of politics is over.

AMANPOUR: What does that mean, that this region is condemned to battling it? NUSSEIBEH: It's condemned; it seems, to battling it out. It looks like this. I think that the Israelis in particular have a fantastic, unprecedented chance. In my opinion, last week, in Beirut, when the Arab leaders met and basically offered Israel to become a natural member of the Middle East region and this was something I would have thought was important to Israelis and, indeed, if I had been an Israeli leader, I would have grabbed this opportunity.

AMANPOUR: There a very few people who were looking at this situation, who thought that the Israelis were not justified in retaliating for the numerous suicide bombings and most particularly the one that happed on the eve of Passover.

NUSSEIBEH: Well, I don't believe personally that the use of force is justifiable whether it' by Palestinians against Israelis or by Israelis against Palestinians. And especially in this situation, with the Israelis and the Palestinians, where we are living as neighbors and at each other's doorsteps, I believe it's totally illogical to use force by one party against the other.

This is a situation where the only way to go forward is by using reason, and I believe by also using some moral standards. And therefore, I believe that neither the Israelis are right in using force again Palestinians, nor are the Palestinians, in my opinion, right in using force against the Israelis.

AMANPOUR: Do you believe suicide bombings are justified?

NUSSEIBEH: No, I don't believe they are morally justified. And I think in addition to this, that they have been politically counterproductive, but also, and equally, I believe that Israel's use of force against Palestinians is also morally unjustified, and it is politically unproductive.

AMANPOUR: But if -- as you say, a lot of people, particularly, the grass root Palestinian organizations have given up on politics. Is there any way out politically?

NUSSEIBEH: I think that today it's extremely difficult for even the most creative and imaginative among us to think of an exit from the deadlock we're in. I believe that it's possibly too late. Nonetheless, I hope that there will be people on both sides that will continue to try. I think we shouldn't stop trying, but I think, to tell you the truth, honestly, I think we're beyond reaching a political solution within the framework we've been working on for the last 10 years between us and the Israelis.

AMANPOUR: If, as you say, there is a significant and powerful faction of the Palestinian side that believes that politics is over, do you believe that there is any way they can win militarily?

NUSSEIBEH: This is a fight in which no side can win militarily over the other. We cannot break Israel's will by the use of force or suicide attacks or shootings, and Israelis cannot break our world, the Palestinians' world. We cannot break each other's will by the use of force. Now way to do this. We have to negotiate if there's going to be a future.

AMANPOUR: So what do you think Sharon's strategy is? He calls for eventually a Palestinian state.

NUSSEIBEH: He calls for a solution in which there would be something called a Palestinian state, but what he has in mind is to create cantons for the Palestinians perhaps three or four under his total security control. He wants us to live in cages, freely within those cages, but in cages, nevertheless, which he controls.

AMANPOUR: What is your view on the issue on the right of return?

NUSSEIBEH: Well, I believe that in accepting and recognizing Israel as a state, we should address the problem of refugee in such a way as not to undermine Israel's demographic balance. We should, of course, find ways and means of bringing refugees back to our future Palestinian state. We should find ways and means of compensating for the refugees. We should find also ways and means for Israel to come to terms with the fact that they, at least, bear a responsibility for the historic tragedy that befell the refugees. But the refugee problem, if we're looking into the future, in my opinion, must be settled primarily within the context of a Palestinian state.

AMANPOUR: You are the Palestinian official in charge of Jerusalem affairs. Do you believe that there is any way of sharing Jerusalem?

NUSSEIBEH: I think where there's a will there's a way. And if the Israelis are prepared to accept and recognize our love for Jerusalem as Palestinians, and our affiliations to Jerusalem and our history in Jerusalem, we are also prepared to do this vis-a-vis the Israelis. And if that is the case, I think rational human on both sides can -- and indeed, I think they were close to constructing some kind of framework for coexistence.

AMANPOUR: When you see the intifada and you see all the people who've been killed on the Palestinian side, three times more than on the Israeli side, people ask would it not be more effective to have civil disobedience, peaceful resistance, you know, sort of Ghandi model. Is that at all possible in this situation? Would it have been possible at all?

NUSSEIBEH: Well, I think that it'd be much better, definitely. Certainly, the situation over the past year and a half have been extremely counterproductive. From our point of view, I personally wouldn't even call it what we have an intifada because I understand by intifada, an uprising. It's an active process engaging the side of Palestinians population as whole in a movement against occupation, for example.

But in this case, what we've had basically is the Palestinians have been on the receiving end of the fight against them. The populations' involvement has only been to the extent of, you know curfews that have been placed over entire cities, but certainly, the use of force against Israelis, in my opinion, hasn't brought us any closer to a solution. And it would have be much better for us then it would be much better for us even today, especially given the situation that we have to engage in civil disobedience.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Some views there very rarely heard from the Palestinian leadership. In the meantime, there are no negotiations that we know of between Israelis and Palestinians. And as this offensive moves into its first week, the defense ministry and security cabinet are meeting to assess its tangible results. We'll be back in a minute. ANNOUNCER: Next...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): This is where we stand to do those live shots you see from time to time. We have the window closed. The view over Ramallah isn't there tonight because quite simply, it's not too safe there as sniper activity in the area...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: ... a behind the scenes look at reporting from a war zone. We're back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AMANPOUR: Finally tonight, we wanted to share with you some of the difficulties that journalists face covering this situation. As journalists, we do our level best to cover all sides, all issues in any situation, in a timely, accurate and fair way. But in the last couple of days, as this military invasion has continued into the West Bank, the Israeli government press and office of the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, has issued very harsh conditions for international and Israeli journalists. When it comes to international journalists, they have said that the West Bank is a closed military zone, that any journalist found working there in defiance of this banning order will have their visas -- not their visas, but their press credentials revoked and will be permanently barred from covering Israel for the future.

When CNN and others complained that recently our clearly marked cars and personnel were shot at, in warning perhaps, the response from the government press office was a thinly veiled warning that if we were there, we were fair game.

We would like to remind everybody that international law clearly prevents any targeting of civilians. We journalists fit into that category. And clearly, these rules are in violation of Israel's long and valued tradition of a democratic and free press. CNN has strongly protested these warnings and is trying and hoping to keep its correspondents there, CNN and other news organizations, I might add.

CNN's Michael Holmes has been there during the week of this military offensive and he tells us now about how difficult it is to work over in Ramallah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES (on-camera): Welcome to Ramatan Studios in Ramallah. This is where we stand to do those live shots you see from time to time. We have the window closed. The view over Ramallah isn't there tonight because quite simply it's not too safe there as sniper activity in the area and when that happens, we keep it closed.

Look around behind the scenes. You can see how life is here. We have always at the ready a flak jacket for when we stand in front of those windows. Azraf (ph) here is sleeping and as we try to get sleep whenever we can. You can see beds all around where we are sleeping on the studio floor. And the very staff of Ramatan have been keeping us looked after for the last five days, very primitive conditions though when it comes to staying here every day and every night.

This is the studio where we are broadcasting from, the control room, if you like. It's a humble control room compared to most around the world, but at this moment, virtually every television network in the world that is represented here in Ramallah is working out of here.

Let's go out into the corridor and just see the layout here. Come with us and I'll show you how we live. This is the kitchen area. You can see here various correspondents from other networks, also our friends from Ramatan who have been cooking and cleaning and feeding us, and watering us when there is water. At the moment, there is no water and it's a bit of a rough situation. We have nowhere to shower. We have nowhere to wash at the moment. The bathroom isn't working.

Small office, every office is a bedroom. Another office, this is Sulsa (ph), one of our producers working on the phone. At night -- you can see mattresses behind her and against the wall there, if Margaret can show you that. At night, we have -- we just get the mattresses down. They go on the floor. People grabbing some sleep wherever they can. Another one of our friends from Ramatan Studios here.

Come down this corridor and, again, every office is a bedroom. This is Katin (ph). He is running Ramatan Studios. This is the man who's looking after us while we're here and doing a great job getting our pictures out to you under very difficult conditions.

We were standing in here just a moment ago and a tank shell went off. And you kind of get used to it, don't you?

KATIN (ph): Yes, yes. Wonderful time.

HOLMES: Wonderful time. OK. That's a bit of a brief look. That's pretty much all there is. As I say, the bathroom's not working. There's no water. We're sleeping on the floors. But no one's going anywhere. Everyone has decided to stay put and try to cover this story as best we can.

This is Michael Holmes at the Ramatan Studios in Ramallah.

(END VIDEOTAPE) AMANPOUR: Well, apart from the small personal difficulties, the dangers are very real and most importantly, the dangers of not being able to properly cover the story. We hope to continue to do so.

I'm Christiane Amanpour. That's our report for tonight.

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