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Jerusalem: Deadly Message Sent by a Bomber on a Bus; Israel Claims They are Withdrawing; Powell on His Way
Aired April 10, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello from Jerusalem. It might be a difficult thing for many people in different parts of the world to understand just how violent this region has become. The killing happens literally hour-by-hour. In 24 hours time, Colin Powell will be here, but between now and then, it is likely that both sides will lose even more people. That's where we begin tonight. Once again, LIVE FROM JERUSALEM.
ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM JERUSALEM: A Deadly Message, sent by a bomber on a bus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIEL SHARON, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAELI: If we do not shut down the terror factories that Arafat is hosting, those terror factories that are producing human bombs, it is only a matter of time before suicide bombers will terrorize your cities here in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: There are fresh accusations from the Palestinians as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have committed a major crime today in the old city of Nablus and the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The number killed, more than 500 people there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Will they ever see peace? Young people's passionate answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not the only one that suffered here. And you're not the only one that's afraid here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Plus, the pulse of a city not quite on the front lines. And, one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. LIVE FROM JERUSALEM: A Deadly Message. Now, CNN's Bill Hemmer.
HEMMER: And good evening once again. For decades now, the Middle East peace process has been absolute labyrinth, a winding maze for world leaders who have ever wandered into this arena. Colin Powell will do it again within 24 hours, but even as we sit here and speak tonight, the tension even on the streets of Jerusalem still very thick. Even a simple police siren gets a lot of people to take a double take. That is the way it is here in the Middle East.
Let's start with the headlines again. Once again, the Israeli military right now saying it's withdrawing troops once again from three small towns in the West Bank, two of those towns are near Hebron, one is near Jenin. Israel says it's already made several arrests there and uncovered a number of laboratories for explosives.
Meanwhile, a suicide bombing today, earlier this morning in the port city of Haifa. Eight people dead, including the niece of Israel's ambassador to the U.N. The prime minister, Ariel Sharon, went to visit troops today in Jenin in the West Bank. He told them - quote - "They were in the center of terror and pledged to continue the current fight until the job is done."
Also, again, this time tomorrow, Secretary of State Colin Powell will be here in the region in Jerusalem. He'll call on Ariel Sharon on Friday, Yasser Arafat on Saturday, this weekend.
We want to get to a closer look now at what happened early this morning, a commuter bus en route from Haifa to Jerusalem, just a bit past 7:00 a.m. It was a crowded morning rush hour. Eyewitnesses say the suicide bomber climbed on board and within 15 minutes, sitting in the third row behind the driver's seat it was blood shed. Again, eight dead, 14 wounded. Among the dead, the U.N. ambassador from Israel, his 18-year-old niece. Tonight, Chris Burns was there in Haifa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The blast was so powerful, witnesses say it lifted the bus off the ground, a packed commuter express on its way from the northern part of Haifa to Jerusalem. Police say the suicide bomber got on near Haifa's industrial outskirts wearing an explosives belt. Minutes later, just after 7:00 a.m., he blew himself up.
(on-camera): The blast scattered body parts in a wide radius from the bus, here along the highway and the fields of the Kibbutz (ph) nearby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The condition is, for sure, you know, this is not a regular death condition. It was a part from this bomb, you know, you never find a whole body. It was - many bodies was almost full, but a lot of parts of bodies.
BURNS (voice-over): More than a dozen survivors are hospitalized, some in serious condition. The government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon blames Palestinian Authority president Yasser Arafat. One more reason, say the Israelis, to maintain their siege of Arafat's compound in Ramallah.
The bus bombing is the first suicide attack in Israel in 10 days. The second since the Israeli offensive in the West Bank began aimed at rooting out what the government calls the "infrastructure of terror."
Chris Burns, CNN, near Haifa, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Earlier tonight, Hamas has claimed responsibility for that suicide bombing. They say the bomber himself came from the West Bank town of Jenin. We all know, as we've been reporting, how violent and fierce the fighting has been there. Ben Wedeman will join us in a moment to update us on the news from Jenin today.
Meanwhile, it seemed today for a while that the news was changing here just about every 15 minutes. Jerrold Kessel now on the pullbacks and the setbacks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Israeli military offensive still going strong. Scores of Palestinian men give themselves up as Israeli troops exert control in Nablus.
Farther north, in Jenin, the fighting winds down, but charges and countercharges are heating up.
SAEB ERAKAT, PALESTINIAN CABINET MINISTER: I'm afraid to say that the number of Palestinian dead in the Israeli attacks have reached more than 500 now. And I think the number may increase once we discover the extent of the damage and the massacres committed in -- particular in the Jenin refugee camp and in the whole city of Nablus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that wasn't a massacre. It was a very fierce battle. This kind of war, the racial, the umber of civilian casualties compared to arms bearing terrorist, was very low.
KESSEL: The Israeli prime minister went to the West Bank to visit his troops outside the Jenin refugee camp.
SHARON: Places that we have done our job there, we'll leave them. Places like here, for instance, we are still in the middle of the battle. We have to accomplish that otherwise; we'll have to enter again. To enter again, that will be against the interest, I think, of the free world and first of all of the United States.
KESSEL: This has been a difficult 24 hours for the Israeli leader. Most of the Israeli soldiers killed during the 12-day campaign were killed in Jenin, 13 in a single ambush. And today, another suicide bombing inside northern Israel. Eight people killed on a commuter bus. The radical Islamic group, Hamas, takes responsibility for an incident, which Israeli officials say reinforces the declared goal of their military campaign to uproot the sources of Palestinian terror. But the bus bombing also reinforces Palestinian arguments that however forceful the Israeli offensive, won't solve Israel's security problem.
And more problems for Mr. Sharon on the diplomatic front. U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, Russia, the European Union and the United Nation's secretary-general all insisting Israel must end its military campaign.
Despite the condemnation, Mr. Sharon wins backing from his security cabinet that the military campaign will go on as long as is needed while he is saying evermore openly that he no longer considers Yasser Arafat a partner, even for a ceasefire.
Still, under U.S. pressure, Yasser Arafat's aids meet with the special U.S. Envoy General Anthony Zinni after first being permitted to discuss their strategy with Yasser Arafat until now, in isolation, in his West Bank headquarters.
(on-camera): Mr. Sharon is now agreeing that Colin Powell meet with Yasser Arafat in Ramallah, though he calls the idea a tragic mistake. The big problem with the Powell mission is that at this stage there appears to be no common goal, not even for a stabilizing ceasefire. Twenty-four hours before the secretary of state arrives, the prospects for success of his mission look bleak.
Jerrold Kessel, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: As Jerrold mentioned Yasser Arafat is still holed up in what is left of that compound in Ramallah. Day 12 now, moving quickly to Day 13. Yasser Arafat, however, in Ramallah did meet with several of his top aids today. The aids described Arafat as in high spirits despite the wretched conditions, they say, that he's living in right now.
Israel says on Saturday they will roll the tanks and troops back away from that compound so that Colin Powell can conduct that meeting again slated for this weekend, on Saturday, here in the region.
Also, also Colin Powell, now one day closer to the region. Earlier today, Madrid, Spain, the secretary of state reiterated his intention to meet with Arafat and he also said that right now, for the Palestinians, Arafat is simply the only game in town right now. Israel says Powell's decision right now is a misguided one. Andrea Koppel tonight from Madrid, Spain who's traveling wit the secretary of state. Here's Andrea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Madrid, a welcomed show of solidarity. Representatives of most of the world's most powerful governments expressing strong support for Secretary of State Powell's increasingly delicate diplomatic mission. U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan laid out the stakes. KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: I'm, frankly, appalled by the humanitarian situation. The international community demands that the government of Israel honor its obligation on the international law to protect civilians.
We call on chairman Arafat, as a recognized, elected leader of the Palestinian people; to undertake immediately the maximum possible effort to stop terror attacks against innocent Israelis.
KOPPEL: A situation one European official described as moving rapidly from bad to worse to appalling.
Fresh from two days of intense consultations within the Arab world, Powell's search for a solution to achieve a ceasefire appears to be taking shape -- among key components, accelerating the political process, to, for example, recognize a Palestinian state, even before a truce is in place, introducing American monitors, a small number of whom could verify a ceasefire, committing to rebuild the Palestinian Authority, much of which has been damaged or destroyed, and agreeing to meet Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, this week over strong Israeli objections.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The reality is that no other Palestinian leader or for that matter, Arab leader, is prepared to engage as a partner until Mr. Arafat has had a chance to express his views to me and to others. So I hope that there will be no difficulties in arranging a meeting with Chairman Arafat.
KOPPEL: On the eve of his arrival in Israel, Powell's supporters have wished him luck. With so much riding on his mission's success, they say, Powell can't afford to fail.
CHRIS PATTEN, EUROPEAN UNION EXT. RELATIONS COMMISSIONER: He carries with him all the prestige of the world's only super power, super duper power, as someone called it recently. And the United States has been a great friend to and of Israel and if Mr. Sharon doesn't listen to Colin Powell and the rest of the international community, then God help the Middle East.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: The last time Madrid hosted a meeting in the Middle East in 1991, Bill, hopes were high because back then, the Israelis and Palestinians had finally agreed to start talking about making peace, but 11 years later, things couldn't be any more different, considering now that the Israelis and Palestinians aren't talking peace, they're waging war - Bill.
HEMMER: Andrea, when Colin Powell arrives here, it's our understanding he'll stay for a few days' time. Do you have a better indication about how long the secretary of state is willing to stay here and possibly extend his stay in order to achieve some level of success?
KOPPEL: Secretary Powell has been asked that a number of times, and quite unusual for him, he said that he has no set departure date. He's planning, he said, to meet with the Israelis and Palestinians on alternate days at least until the beginning of in the week. But, Bill, he cannot, as we've heard over and over, afford to go back to Washington without some sort of ceasefire, some sort of hope on the horizon. And so, for that reason, he says he's really going to stay there for as long as it takes.
HEMMER: Allow me, a pessimistic view then, Andrea. Many people are not giving Colin Powell much credit at all on this trip, saying his chances for success are frankly downright dim. If there is no success, what's the strategy then?
KOPPEL: They don't want to talk about it like that. Certainly, they came out here and by they, I'm referring to Secretary Powell and his aides, came out here recognizing not only that the stakes were very high, but that the chances for success were very low, but they can't go back -- I mean this really is the theme we're hearing over and over again -- without some sort of a glimmer of hope. And while they recognize that their - the odds are against them, the stakes for the U.S., the stakes for the Middle East and the stakes for the Israelis and the Palestinians are just too high for him to walk away with nothing and that this -- where do you go, if Secretary Powell fails?
And so, he's trying to keep a somewhat optimistic frame of mind, Bill, and he's going in hoping that he's going to be able to nudge the two sides closer together.
HEMMER: Fingers cross indeed. Andrea, thanks. Andrea Koppel in Madrid, Spain, late tonight with us. We will see you a bit later this week in Jerusalem, in fact, tomorrow night. Andrea, thanks to you.
We've been showing now you videotape of gunmen moving through narrow alleyways and gun ships overhead and tanks rolling through certain West Bank towns. Well, we've also talked about the tension that is so thick and so palpable on the streets of the Middle East today. In fact, earlier today at our bureau in West Jerusalem, two police cars went screaming by with their sirens on and our colleagues immediately ran to the window first and at a police radio second. It was a false alarm, but nonetheless, it shows once again how much tension is here.
Earlier today, we want to Tel Aviv, on the West Coast, right along the Mediterranean, talking to a number of mostly young people about their attitudes today, how they feel and how they feel Israel right now is going at this alone.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER (voice-over): Israelis see Tel Aviv as something like their version of New York City, loaded with energy and attitude. And if you want opinion, there's plenty of that here, too. These days, some Israelis say they feel as if they're alone on their own island.
Priscilla Levy (ph) is a 25-year-old nanny.
(on-camera): I get the sense that Israel is a nation that has come together almost united right now. Yet, the whole world is telling you you're wrong, get out of the West Bank, stop the military action. From an Israeli perspective, how would you explain that attitude to the world?
PRISCILLA LEVY (ph), NANNY: I want every leader of all the nations of Europe that don't understand us to come here and to live in Jerusalem one month, OK. Then, they'll see the situation. They will know the war and they'll see where we come from, how we feel, why we do this.
HEMMER (voice-over): The tension here is intense. Shoppers browse largely empty stores. Haim Kari (ph) is a 30-year-old musician. He works in Tel Aviv.
(on-camera): We saw some poll numbers that said well over 70 percent of the Israeli people support the current military operation. Tell us why there is so much support right now within Israel about the current action.
HAIM KARI (ph), MUSICIAN: Well, you know, Israelis see the situation different from what you see in the media because every -- every life of an Israeli that dies is like an entire family of Israel.
HEMMER (voice-over): In terms of geography, Tel Aviv feels removed from the front lines of the conflict, but terror bombers have not skipped this town. Ten days ago, on a busy Saturday night, a suicide attack ripped apart a cafe.
Some fear if the military pulls out of the West Bank, more bombers will then come back to places like Tel Aviv.
Annat Cooper (ph) is not sure what to think other than thinking the conflict for her has made her tired.
(on-camera): How far away are the Palestinians and Israelis from that point right now?
ANNAT COOPER, RESIDENT: I think night and day. And that's why I think we need intermediates. It's like two children quarreling and they will quarrel the same stupid quarrel until Mommy comes in the room and just gives one thing to one and the other to another and just separate them. And I think this is where the world comes in because the Israelis and Palestinians have been going at it forever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Perhaps it will come to no surprise to anyone of the dozens of people we talked to today; no one had a solution for the current crisis.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Next, what really happened out of camera range?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That wasn't a massacre. It was a very fierce battle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the real terrorist being practiced against the Palestinians...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Also, a hair-raising, life-saving and potentially deadly ride.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANE DABROWSKI, PARAMEDIC: It's definitely hard working in a war zone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And later, the new generation and seeds of peace. LIVE FROM JERUSALEM will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: The Jenin refugee camp was established in 1953 and has a population of around 15,000 people. While some residents work around Jenin, many depend on finding work inside Israel proper.
HEMMER: Welcome back to Jerusalem. More on Jenin right now. If you've been following us the last several days, you know some of the fiercest battles took place in the refugee camp. We are told the fighting died down considerably today. But there are serious charges leveled publicly back and forth between the two sides. The Palestinians are right now saying at least 500 are dead on their side between Jenin and another town of Nablus. The Israelis say that's an absolute lie. It is difficult for us to verify, simply our movement throughout the West Bank has been restricted now for 12 days. Rescue workers say it's been tough for them to get in and help evacuate the wounded and also move the bodies that are now lying in the streets dead away from the area. Ben Wedeman tonight now from Jenin with more on what's happening there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): The origin of the word "Jenin" means paradise, but what has happened here in this West Bank town is very much closer to hell. We're hearing of a catastrophic humanitarian situation within the city.
Just a little while ago, I spoke with a representative of UNICEF who came to this city to deliver food. He said that was intense fighting in the middle of the town, that they were unable to deliver the food to the UNICEF office. Essentially, they had to dump it at a private warehouse and leave the city. But as they were leaving the city, despite the intense fighting, they said, people came up to their convoy begging for food.
UNICEF also says that as many as 800 women and children have fled the camp. They are now wandering around the city of Jenin looking for shelter, looking for food, looking for safety, and apparently, they haven't found any of that.
The actual fighting within the refugee camp seems to have subsided around midmorning. There were reports from both Palestinian security sources as well as the Israeli Army of hundreds of people surrendering, civilians, as well as Palestinian militants. So therefore, the situation in Jenin very much in flux, but for the inhabitants, it certainly appears to be a nightmare.
I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from Jenin on the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: That's from Jenin in the West Bank. Now, also in the West Bank, the town of Bethlehem, six miles south of our location, that standoff does continue again with about 200 Palestinian gunmen inside the Church of the Nativity.
On Wednesday, however, an Armenian monk was shot as he walked to the compound near that church. The IDF, the Israeli Defense Force, saying that incident occurred as they were trying to deliver food inside. The monk was taken to a hospital in Jerusalem. He was in intensive care there after surgery, expected to survive that gun shot from earlier today.
Meanwhile, also in the West Bank town of Ramallah, we talk a lot about Yasser Arafat there. However, there are ambulances, too, that move through that West Bank town. The Israelis accuse the ambulance operators of moving weapons throughout Ramallah. In turn, they accuse the Israelis of firing away. Michael Holmes now on the debate with the medics in Ramallah.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not an easy job, at the best of times. And in this context, what drives them is essentially their will to save lives.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to perhaps the most dangerous job in the world right now: ambulance driver in the West Bank. The Red Crescent is under fire, at times quite literally. The ambulance service is accused by Israel of allowing itself to be used to ferry arms, explosives and fighters.
"Nonsense," say these drivers. In fact, they say they have become innocent targets as they try, often in vein, to reach the wounded and the sick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sadly, our humanitarian mission has been hindered. These attacks have been deliberate. We have lodged complaints through the Red Cross and we're going to pursue these complaints because we would like the army held accountable for this type of action.
HOLMES: Hassam Shakawi (ph), a Canadian of Palestinian descent, his wife and children still in Alberta, while he coordinates the ambulances of Ramallah. Shane Dabrowski is Canadian, too, a paramedic who came here to train Palestinians before Israel's latest incursion.
DABROWSKI: Back home it's mostly, if you go to a trauma call, it's usually blunt trauma. Here, it's been all penetrating trauma. And it's definitely different working in a war zone, you know.
HOLMES: He smiles, but humor is important in this job. One driver told us he's thinking of driving naked because it will save time during the regular strip searchers by Israeli troops.
(on camera): According to the Red Crescent, since this current intifateh began in September of 2000, four of its doctors or medics have been killed, more than 150 shot or wounded. In the last month alone, two dead, 20 wounded and that doesn't include the near- misses.
DABROWSKI: I've been lucky though. I haven't been in an ambulance that's actually been hit. It's been close -- or even when we've been out on the street treating, the rounds are coming close.
HOLMES: Back at headquarters, another call. But the ambulance can't leave yet. The Red Crescent has to call the Red Cross, who then call the Israeli army. That's how it works here.
Sometimes permission comes, sometimes not. In this case, the crews leave anyway. The call is to a private house, the story heart- breaking. We make our way back to the hospital. En route, another stop, another check by soldiers -- routine.
The patient is not a fighter, not a terrorist. She's a 28-year- old mother, Manal Sami (ph). She was sitting on her sofa in her living room with her husband and their four children, age from 2 to 12, all watching television, when a bullet crashed through the window and through her chest. Their children saw it all.
The anguish is on the face of her brother-in-law, Sameh (ph). We were just five minutes away when the call came in. We heard no sounds of any gunfight. Sameh (ph) says it was just the one shot. The forlorn efforts of the doctors tell the story. Manal Sami (ph) is dead.
We left as doctors called Sameh (ph) in to tell him.
Back at the ambulance base, army vehicles rumble past. In the shadow of an Israeli settlement, they clean the ambulance of Manal Sami's (ph) blood and wait for the next call, hoping they'll get through.
Michael Holmes, CNN, Ramallah.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up, a warning from a former Israeli leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've come here to voice what I believe is an urgently needed reminder. (END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And later, a nervous border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we have casualties and especially if there are any kind of heavy casualties, God forbid, I don't see any way that the IDF will be able to hold back anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Will smoldering hatreds turn into a hot battle? LIVE FROM JERUSALEM continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back to Jerusalem. We will continue our program in a moment. First though, I want to update our viewers right now on the latest stories we have tonight.
Israeli army confirming with CNN a few short moments ago, against it's late in the night here, about 3:30 local time, they say that partial withdrawal of three more small West Bank towns still underway right now. Two have been completed. One continues. They believe that third one may be finished before the sun comes up in about three hours time here.
Meanwhile, earlier this morning, seven o'clock local time on a commuter bus bound from Haifa to Jerusalem, a suicide bomber strikes Israel for the first time in nine days, 14 injured, eight dead, and among the dead the niece of Israel's Ambassador to the U.N.
Ariel Sharon, the Prime Minister went to visit troops today at Jenin, the refugee camp where Israeli soldiers have been operating for days right now. The fighting has been intense and Ariel Sharon saying Israel will continue to "fight until the job is done."
Colin Powell will be here tomorrow. First stop in the Middle East is Jerusalem. He'll meet with Ariel Sharon on Friday, and then head off to Ramallah and the West Bank for a meeting there with Yasser Arafat on Saturday.
Meanwhile, back in the U.S. earlier today, the former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had a very stiff message to Americans in the U.S. when he met with lawmakers in Washington. He says the U.S. right now runs the risk of ruining its own war on terror, and also opening itself up to the possibility that it's inviting more attacks, terror attacks on the streets of American cities. A quick sample again of what Benjamin Netanyahu said today in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: It is for the sake of our common values that I've come here today. I've come here to voice what I believe is an urgently needed reminder that the war on terror can be won with clarity and courage or lost with confusion and vacillation.
I'm concerned that when it comes to terror directed against Israel, the moral and strategic clarity that is so crucial for victory is being lost. I'm concerned that the imperative of defeating terror everywhere is being ignored when the main engine of Palestinian terror is allowed to remain intact.
I'm concerned that the State of Israel that has for decades bravely manned the frontlines against terror is being pressed to back down just when it is on the verge of uprooting Palestinian terror.
Yasser Arafat brazenly pursues an ideology of policide. I think I coined this phrase, policide, which is the destruction of a state, and he meticulously pursues it by promoting a cult of suicide and with total control of the media, the schools, the ghoulish Kindergarten camps for children that glorify suicide martyrdom. For God's sake, this is a man who signs the checks for the explosives for the suicide bombs.
Arafat's dictatorship has indoctrinated a generation of Palestinians in a culture of death, producing waves of human bombs that massacre Jews in busses, discos, supermarkets, pizza shops, cafes, everywhere and anywhere.
If we do not shut down the human bomb terror factories that Arafat is pioneering today, they will surely as the light of day reach the United States with greater and greater devastating force.
This is why there's no alternative to winning this war without delay. No part of the terror network can be left intact, for if not fully eradicated like the most malignant cancer, it will regroup and attack again with even greater ferocity. Only by dismantling the entire terror network will we be assured of victory.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Benjamin Netanyahu earlier today in Washington speaking there on Wednesday. In response, Hasan Abdul Rahman, the Palestinian rep to the U.S. talked with CNN's Leon Harris. His rebuttal now to what we heard from Benjamin Netanyahu.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEON HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First of all, I want to welcome you here. I would like to ask you for your comments after what you just heard.
HASAN ABDUL RAHMAN, : First of all, let me say that I am saddened to see a man like Netanyahu given this honor in the Senate of the United States, a man that was voted out of his office by his people because he lied to them, a man who was investigated in Israel for imprisonment, a man who is known to be a bigot and a racist, given this honor in the United States. And to agitate against international legality, the resolutions of the Security Council and against the President of the United States (inaudible) to join international consensus asking for Israel to halt its brutal, immoral, illegal, criminal attack against the Palestinian people and withdraw its troops from the Palestinian territories.
Second, Mr. Netanyahu speaks of cancer. He forgot that the cancer that is plaguing Palestinian-Israeli possibilities for peace is the illegal and immoral occupation of the Palestinian people and the Palestinian territories.
Third, he is advocating an apartheid system, similar to what the White regime of South Africa imposed on the Blacks of South Africa.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Now you have both sides and you can make up your own mind right now. It's been a war of words from the very beginning. Nearly every hour, we have seen this PR battle being waged from both sides.
Let's talk more about it from a political standpoint. Bill Schneider with us live tonight from Washington, and Bill I say good evening to you back in D.C. First, this speech from Benjamin Netanyahu, quite critical of the Palestinians, what is the strategy there, behind going there and delivering the words that he delivered, and the way he did it today?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well first of all, he went to the United States Senate because Israel has learned over the years that they always have problems with American presidents, whether they're Democrats or Republicans, but Israel can usually rely on Congress to bail them out. They've been Israel's staunchest supporters. So I think part of it was to get his supporters in Congress to send a message to President Bush that Congress is on Israel's side.
I think in addition, he was trying to use President Bush's words against President Bush. He was saying, "look, Mr. President with all due respect, you talked about the necessity for a complete victory over terrorism. You described them as evil. You said the imperative of victory." Well, if you believe those things, that is incompatible with your criticism of Israel since last Thursday. He's using Bush against Bush.
HEMMER: What then does Netanyahu want to accomplish? He was here in the region just a few days ago, quickly flying off to the U.S. Read between the lines for us, Bill, if you could here.
SCHNEIDER: Well, clearly what he wants to do is let the United States allow Israel to complete the job, which is to wipe out all the terrorist infrastructure in West Bank and presumable Gaza, and he wants to separate the political process from the military job, because he believes that if you talk, if you link the two, you're making concessions to terrorists and that's outrageous. He made an interesting statement. He said in his talk, he said that the motivating force behind terror isn't desperation or destitution, Netanyahu said it's hope. It's hope that through terror, we can achieve our political objectives.
And what he's saying to the United States is, if you link political negotiations to a ceasefire, you are making concessions to terrorists. You are saying, "if you stop the terror, you may get your Palestinian state."
And what Netanyahu was saying to President Bush is that is totally incompatible with everything that you've said. You can't make concessions with terrorists. So therefore, let us finish the military operation and then we can talk about politics at a later point.
HEMMER: All right, Bill, thanks. Bill Schneider live in Washington tonight. Again, Colin Powell's visit will be here in 24 hours' time; potentially much more on this in the days ahead. In a moment here, starting when they're young, seeds of peace. Is there a chance now that the next generation of Israelis and Palestinians might have a shot at peace? We'll look at that. Two guests join us live, young guests with a whole lot of incite into the current conflict. Back in a moment here LIVE IN JERUSALEM.
ANNOUNCER: Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu went to college in the United States. He received degrees in Architecture and Management from MIT. He also studied political science at Harvard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: As people continue to look for solutions for this part of the world, a lot of people recommend starting with the young people on both sides, Israelis and Palestinians. They talk about planting the seeds of peace in young people at a very young age, and hopefully by the time they're adults, when they have influence, those seeds will grow and take root, firm root.
To date, we haven't seen it but there is a group called Seeds of Peace. It operates, non-profit organization, operating out of the State of Maine. It takes kids from all over the world essentially, from different conflicts, including this one.
With us tonight in our studios back in New York, I want to welcome with us this evening Hiller Meller, 17 years old, arrived in the U.S. on Tuesday. She comes from the Israeli town of Haifa. Also with us tonight is Shurouq Al-Swaitti, a 20-year-old Palestinian from the West Bank. Good evening to both of you, really appreciate your sharing your thoughts with us tonight.
Here's what I want to know. Maybe Shurouq you can go first here. What happens to a generation of young people when they grow up in a world like here in the Middle East, where there is so much turmoil and so much bloodshed and so much conflict? What happens to those people as they go through their lives? SHUROUQ AL-SWAITTI, PALESTINIAN STUDENT: Well unfortunately with what's happening right now in the Middle East, a young generation is being exposed to a lot of violence and it brings and breeds more hatred and anger and frustration, and that's why violence has to stop, because as the young generation grows up with ideas that are saturated with hatred and violence, implementing peace will be extremely difficult in the future.
HEMMER: Hilla, what do you think about those who suggest that the younger generations are simply lost generations, knowing that the conflict they're seeing unfold before their very eyes? Do you take the pessimistic view that way or do you shed a different light on it?
HILLA MELLER, ISRAELI STUDENT: I try to look at it differently because I had the chance to be in Seeds of Peace and I had the chance to see the other side as other people haven't. I just think that having the chance to meet with other teenagers, Palestinians, Arab, Israelis, that gives me the chance to see things that most Israelis don't and I don't think the younger generation is lost at all because we have the chance to form our own opinions and sometimes it's harder, but it's something that we just have to do.
HEMMER: You know, Hilla, I read where you said you did not have an opinion on the conflict while you went into Seeds of Peace, but you say that quickly changed. How did it change? What influenced you?
MELLER: I think the fact that I've met people and that I saw people and I spent three weeks sleeping, eating, playing, discussing about the conflict with people firsthand, and just hearing from other people in Israel usually doesn't give you the same picture as you get if you sit down with a person and you talk with them, and you see them as a person and not as some political entity.
HEMMER: If only so many people could see that same view. Shurouq, what do you hear from Israelis? What questions do they ask you about your life and your people?
AL-SWAITTI: As I attended - when I attended the Seeds of Peace camp?
HEMMER: Yes, when you talk with Israelis, what questions do they have for you?
AL-SWAITTI: They're always curious to learn more about the Palestinian side, not only about their political ideologies but also about their culture, because unfortunately even though both Palestinians and Israelis live in the same region, yet there's so much isolation, so many barriers that makes communicating between the two sides extremely difficult and all they see of each side gets to see mostly the negative aspect of the other side.
So they're always interested in knowing what cultural background Palestinians have. What are the similarities that we share in common. They're always also concerned about the issue of safety and security and how can the two states exist together in peace and share borders and maintain their safety together. That's a very crucial question that comes up, not only it's a question that's asked by Israelis but also Palestinians raise the same question.
HEMMER: You know listen, I only have a minute left here and I want to get to two other points. First to you Shurouq, continue with your answer there. Tell us what is the difference between you and other Palestinians? Why did you choose Seeds of Peace and this path?
AL-SWAITTI: I chose Seeds of Peace because it gave me the chance to be exposed to more sides and aspects of the other side. It made me see the conflict from the eyes of so many people. It provided me with multiple sides of learning about the conflict, rather than a one-sided story. It made me see and understand how the other side, that's the Israelis, think and why they have the beliefs they have. It just made me more tolerant to different opinions and more open to discussing issues that are very volatile in the Middle East and have been always very controversial and very hard topics. And it also made me -
HEMMER: I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt but I'm out of time here. Hilla, quickly tell us what you believe Israelis need to know about the Palestinian people that you've learned?
MELLER: I just want them to know that Palestinians - there are also Palestinians that believe in peace, and that there are Palestinians that want to live in peace with Israel and that want to have Israel as a state that lives right next to them. But I think that most Israelis don't know that, and that's one of our biggest problems.
HEMMER: Hilla Meller, Shurouq Al-Swaitti, age 17 and age 20, I think the adults can learn a whole lot more from both of you and more. Thanks for being with us again tonight. Seed of Peace is the program.
AL-SWAITTI: Thank you.
MELLER: Thank you.
HEMMER: Hopefully planting seeds that will grow and prosper in the future. We are live in Jerusalem. Our coverage continues in a moment.
ANNOUNCER: We hear about them every day. Next, the reality behind refugee camps when LIVE FROM JERUSALEM returns.
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HEMMER: Part of our challenge here as journalists explaining and bringing this story to you from the Middle East is trying to explain the deep complexities of the issues. Last night, we talked about geography. It is so small in this region.
Tonight the issue of refugees, three and a half million, and their plight through history. Once again here's Bill Schneider with that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Palestinian refugees are at the heart of the Middle East conflict. Everyone agrees on that, but there's no agreement on anything else. Here's what we know.
(voice over): The United Nation's Relief and Works Agency defines Palestine refugees as: "Persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June, 1946 and May, 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab- Israeli conflict" plus their descendants.
In 1950, they numbered 914,000. By 2001, half a century later, the number of registered Palestine refugees, including descendants reached 3.9 million. Most of the refugees live in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, but they are not citizens of those countries.
Who's responsible for these refugees? The Arabs say Israel drove them out and refuses to allow them to come back. Israel's response?
ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Israel is not ready to allow or discuss the return of refugees into its boundaries, refugees who had to escape because of a war that was forced on Israel, because what that would mean is the end of Israel as a Jewish State.
SCHNEIDER: The core of the problem is the Palestinian refugee camps, where people live in desperately poor and crowded conditions. Of the 3.9 million refugees, 1.2 million, nearly a third, live in the 59 camps.
About half the camps are in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. The rest are in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Camp sounds temporary, but these camps are far from temporary. Some date back over 50 years. They've become ramshackle cities with schools, hospitals, and mosques, alongside anger, desperation and violence.
Israel claims the camps are havens for terrorists, so this year for the first time, the Israeli military has gone into the camps to destroy the terrorist infrastructure. The camps have become the deadliest battleground in the conflict.
The United Nations Relief Agency runs the camps, but who pays the bill? Of the $414 million in contributions last year, most of the money came from European countries. The United States provided $123 million, about 30 percent. Japan contributed $15 million, and Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and the Palestinian Authority a total of $7 million. The refugees have become the world's problem.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): The irony is that Palestinians outside the Middle East tend to do well. Many are prosperous and successful unlike in the place they call Palestine. Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: In the past two weeks, we have heard numerous themes throughout the Middle East about what people believe may be at issue here. A lot of people think simply leadership is lacking on both sides, and some suggest that Ariel Sharon and Yasser Arafat may not have it in their heart to make peace. Colin Powell's about to find out the true answer to that question.
I'm Bill Hemmer. Thanks for watching again tonight LIVE FROM JERUSALEM. We'll see you again tomorrow, right here on CNN.
LARRY KING, LARRY KING LIVE: Tonight, he asks a lot of tough questions. Now he's going to answer some. Peter Jennings for the full hours, next on LARRY KING LIVE.
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