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Jerusalem: Powell Goes to Lebanon and Will Again Meet With Sharon Tomorrow

Aired April 15, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The world has been telling Israel to end the incursions in the West Bank, but Israel has told the world it will, but only on its own time. And apparently, that time is within one week now.

And if Secretary Powell is making any headway inside these meetings, it's very tough to tell on the outside.

We shall examine it in-depth, though, coming up in the next hour -- LIVE FROM JERUSALEM on a Monday evening.

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM JERUSALEM -- Sharon and Arafat, the next step.

A pledge from Israel's Prime Minister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIEL SHARON, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: Altogether, we are on our way out. And that what really happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Ariel Sharon says Israeli forces will withdraw from most West Bank cities within a week.

Colin Powell gets ready for a second round with Yasser Arafat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: What I am interested in doing right now, though, is bringing an end to the violence, bringing an end to this conflict.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: And, the Secretary of State travels north to try to prevent a wider Mideast war from breaking out.

The Israelis capture a top Palestinian leader, who they say has links to the suicide bombers.

Relief officials get a first-hand look at a refugee camp at the center of a vicious battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED RELIEF OFFICIAL: We can report that there are still some bodies, of course, buried underneath the ruble of some of the destroyed block houses. One can certainly easily smell the bodies of either animals or people or both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM JERUSALEM: Sharon and Arafat, the next step.

Now, here's Bill Hemmer.

HEMMER: Hello once again from Jerusalem.

Earlier today the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon told CNN there is an end in sight to the military operation right now underway in the West Bank.

However, don't tell that to the Palestinians. They say the words of Ariel Sharon earlier today ring hollow. We will examine that, coming up momentarily. First, the headlines now.

Ariel Sharon again telling CNN's Wolf Blitzer that they will get out. Within a week, Israeli forces will withdraw from just about everywhere in the West Bank, he says, with the exception of Ramallah and Bethlehem.

Also, Secretary Powell will meet again with Mr. Sharon tomorrow, on Tuesday. After that on Wednesday we anticipate in Ramallah, Secretary Powell will meet with Yasser Arafat.

On Monday, Powell talked with Syrian and Lebanese leaders in the north, hoping to contain the regional violence there.

Also, amid that political maneuvering, Israel arrested the Secretary General of Chairman Arafat's Fatah movement. Marwan Barghouti was seized in a home in Ramallah earlier on Monday morning.

Meanwhile, our top story tonight, Ariel Sharon certainly is a man who has a lot of answers right now in the Middle East. And earlier today, in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, he did share a few of those answers. And tonight with us, Wolf joins us late tonight, here in Jerusalem.

Good evening to you. A fascinating interview. And what he did say, in no short order, is that a lot of the military activity will end within days.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He also said, though, that if there are continued terrorist problems, that ending could be short- lived. They might have to go back.

But the Israeli Prime Minister was forceful in insisting that within a week Israel will withdraw from Jenin, from Nablus, from all the major towns and villages in the West Bank, and recently reoccupied in the aftermath of some of those suicide bombings.

But he said specifically, as you just pointed out, Bill, Bethlehem and Ramallah -- the Church of the Nativity, in particular, in Bethlehem where some 200 Palestinian gunmen remain hold up, as well as Ramallah, the compound, the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's compound where Sharon insists that there also are some wanted terrorists being protected within that compound.

They won't withdraw from there. But they will withdraw from the rest of the West Bank.

Listen precisely to what the Prime Minister had to say.

SHARON: Altogether, we are on our way out. And that's what really happening. That's exactly what I have said, when I was asked in the past. I said, were that we have accomplished, we will be leaving.

BLITZER: Excuse me for -- maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I may be still be confused.

You say, within a week you will be out of all of these areas with the exception of Bethlehem, unless there's a resolution on that issue?

SHARON: And Ramallah.

BLITZER: And Ramallah. You won't be out, within a week, of Ramallah.

SHARON: No, because -- unless we will be able, if those terrorists will be handed over to us, we'll leave there.

BLITZER: The Prime Minister was also forceful in insisting that the Secretary of State Colin Powell had made a mistake in agreeing to meet with Yasser Arafat in Ramallah.

He called Yasser Arafat, basically, a man who is a terrorist, who supports terrorism, is engaged, he says, in a strategy of terrorism. Israel, he says, will have nothing more to do with Yasser Arafat, except to continue to isolate him.

I pressed him and I said, well who's the alternative, as leader of the Palestinians, if Yasser Arafat is not the leader? He said, there are other Palestinians. He insisted he's met with some of those Palestinians, including recently at his own ranch in the Negev Desert.

But he wouldn't spell out, Bill, who those Palestinians are.

HEMMER: I'm assuming here that if the withdrawal for the majority is going to happen within a week's time, that there is some measure of progress or success the Israeli military would hang its hat on.

Did he say today how he measures the success of this operation? BLITZER: He seemed to suggest that they were destroying what he called the infrastructure of terrorism, and he was very proud of the fact that they arrested Marwan Barghouti, the Secretary General of the Fatah movement, which, of course, is Yasser Arafat's political movement.

He says that's a major development. But at the same time, he left open the possibility that Israel might have to go back in.

HEMMER: You spend a lot of your time in Washington. We all know you from the White House, and certainly in D.C.

Earlier tonight Ariel Sharon had a conversation, a 15-minute conversation, with President Bush. He gave him the promise similar to the information he gave you personally earlier today.

Is there a sense that the relationship right now between the White House and Ariel Sharon, the Israeli government, is a bit strained right now?

BLITZER: There is acknowledgment. And Sharon's aides privately will acknowledge there is some serious strain between the Bush administration and this Israeli government.

At the same time, Sharon was very forceful in saying that the United States is Israel's best friend, most reliable friend.

Israel is very dependent on U.S. economic and military assistance and political goodwill.

But he said that Israel's got to do what it's got to do. And if it means fighting terrorism in the West Bank, isolating Yasser Arafat, he was obviously prepared to take that risk.

HEMMER: And as you mentioned at the outset, there's that possibility that the tanks could stay perched on the outside of a number of these towns, waiting to see if, in Ariel Sharon's words, if the situation stays quiet.

BLITZER: And remember, he also said the Israeli cabinet approved these buffer zones ...

HEMMER: Right.

BLITZER: ... around Israel's pre-'67 lines, in effect -- some of them as wide as five kilometers.

Palestinians are going to be very, very upset about those so- called buffer zones, a security zone -- fences that the Israeli government now is going to invest a lot of money in building.

HEMMER: Thank you, Wolf. We're going to hear from Saeb Erakat from the Palestinian side a bit later in our program, plus more of your interview, as well.

Wolf Blitzer, live here in Jerusalem tonight. Also here in Jerusalem, once again, Secretary of State Colin Powell continued his mediation efforts.

In fact, he went to the north -- a visit to Beirut, then later to Damascus, Syria -- trying to draw more concentrated effort right now on what's happening in the cross-border situation between southern Lebanon and the northern part of Israel.

In addition, there was talk again today about an international conference to settle the Middle East crisis.

For all of that tonight, here's Andrea Koppel.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As Secretary Powell arrived back in Israel, so too did news the U.S. is considering the possibility of a Middle East peace conference -- one without Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat.

Powell told reporters Arafat could send a senior envoy for meetings with other ministers from Israel and the Arab world.

In his interview with CNN, Israel's Prime Minister, who has already ruled out meeting with Arafat, said this would work for him.

SHARON: It would be a foreign ministers' meeting. It will be the leaders' meeting. And that is not the problem.

The problem is, how to try and talk to Arab leaders, and I propose them to -- I was ready to go to Beirut, to meet with them.

KOPPEL: It's sure to come up during Secretary Powell's second meeting with Arafat this week. And chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat signaled, it's a possibility.

SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Once we know the substance of this conference, once we agree on the terms of reference for this conference, once we know that it's not going to be the idea of just more talking about talking.

KOPPEL: But Arab leaders have told Powell, any plans by Israel to circumvent Arafat's authority would scuttle any regional meeting.

And during Powell's latest swing through the region to Beirut and Damascus, he was warned of another deal-breaker -- Israel's refusal to withdraw completely from West Bank towns and cities.

RAFIQ HARIRI, PRIME MINISTER OF LEBANON: We believe strongly that security is important, very important. But it is not a replacement of the peaceful agreement.

And we think, with the experience we had here in Lebanon, that cease-fire without a political solution will not take off.

KOPPEL: For his part, Powell pressed leaders and Lebanon and Syria to use their influence with Hezbollah guerillas to end recently stepped up cross-border attacks into Israel, attacks which Israel warns may force it to retaliate.

POWELL: There is a very real danger of the situation along the border widening the conflict throughout the region.

KOPPEL: Another headache for Secretary Powell -- Israel's arrest of Marwan Barghouti, a leader of Arafat's Fatah movement, accused by Israel of directing scores of terrorist attacks.

More than a week after Secretary Powell arrived in the region, more hurdles and little sign of progress. In fact, the only sign of any forward movement at all, is that more meetings are scheduled.

Andrea Koppel, CNN, Jerusalem.

HEMMER: Earlier today, the Israeli government announced that it believes it has made, now, what it considers its most high profile arrest since this operation started about 17 days ago.

In the town of Ramallah, the same area where Yasser Arafat has been for -- since the month of December, now.

Chris Burns profiles the man that Israel picked up earlier today.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Marwan Barghouti knows how to fire up a crowd. He's street wise, charismatic, a potential successor to Yasser Arafat.

The Israelis arrested the Secretary General of Arafat's Fatah movement because, they say, he's fostered a bloody terrorist campaign by leading, directly or indirectly, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed faction of Fatah that's carried out suicide bombings.

Barghouti denies the charge, though he has supported the Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Barghouti has been alternately seen as a fighter, a peacemaker, then fighter again.

As the first Palestinian uprising against the occupation broke out in 1987, Barghouti helped direct the movement from Jordan, where Israel deported him.

He returned with an olive branch under the 1993 Oslo peace accords. He became a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, and developed ties with Israeli politicians and peace activists.

But the second Intifada broke out in September 2000 after peace talks broke down.

Barghouti often attended funerals of those killed in the uprising. He condoned attacks on Israeli troops or settlers in the West Bank and Gaza as legitimate means to end the occupation, and to resist what he says are Israeli attempts to crush the Palestinian Authority itself. MARWAN BARGHOUTI, SECRETARY-GENERAL, PALESTINIAN FATAH MOVEMENT: There is an Israeli plan to continue to destroy the Palestinian Authority, to trying to troubling (ph) Mr. Arafat, and to destroy the Palestinian Intifada and Palestinian resistance.

But I think they failed to do that. And this will not stop the Palestinian resistance and the Palestinian Intifada.

BURNS: But those Barghouti saw as freedom fighters are seen by others as terrorists.

Israel says Barghouti also actively supported terror attacks inside Israel proper.

Barghouti's ties to the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades remain unclear. But Israel believes it has enough evidence to take the political risk of jailing and trying the highly popular leader many Israelis thought they could do business with.

Chris Burns, CNN, Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Under all this rubble, rubble of what were houses, they are finding more dead in Nablus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Next, our Sheila MacVicar gets inside the West Bank's largest city, where the scars of war are visible on nearly every corner.

And later, a show of support. Tens of thousands converge in Washington to rally for Israel.

But first, time for your opinion. Who is winning the Mideast propaganda war -- Israel or the Palestinians?

To take the quick vote, head to cnn.com. The AOL key word is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Since unrest in Israel and the Palestinian territories broke out in September 2000, more than 1,500 Palestinians and more than 440 Israelis have been killed in the violence.

HEMMER: Want to go to the West Bank now, specifically in the town of Jenin. There's a refugee camp.

There are about 15,000 Palestinians living in there -- site of some of the fiercest battles that we have talked about over the past two weeks' time.

The Palestinian Red Crescent Society and some other relief agencies were allowed into the town on Monday. Earlier today on CNN, a French journalist who went in that town, also, told us what he saw in the refugee camp.

MICHAEL SCOTT, FRENCH JOURNALIST: We managed to see a few corpses, a few killed people in this first part -- five bodies in one house. Very difficult to see whether they were civilians or fighting (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

And also, one person who was obviously a civilian killed by a sniper just outside his home.

So from these bits of the reality we saw -- and again, it's very difficult to have an assessment of the overall situation in Jenin ...

HEMMER: Claims of a massacre on one side. Israel says the casualties are much, much lower, but we shall all see in time what happened there in Jenin.

Meanwhile, at Nablus -- that's the largest West Bank town, well over 100,000 people living there before the incursion began.

On Monday, Sheila MacVicar went for a look-see inside of Nablus. Here is what she found on Monday afternoon.

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Under all this rubble, rubble of what were houses, they are finding more dead in Nablus.

The family of an old man waits for his body.

There was not enough equipment to dig everywhere the Israeli military dynamited buildings, everywhere where there may be dead.

And so, in another corner of the Old City, people wait.

There were soap factories here and houses for 14 families, they told us.

The Israeli military says the factories were destroyed because they were being used to manufacture explosives. They insist they made every effort to ensure there were no people inside.

Halid Khalani (ph) clambered down the rubble to the ruins of his house. And there, there is the unmistakable smell of death.

HALID KHALANI (ph): (IN ARABIC)

MACVICAR: There are many people missing, he says, including my cousin. We've tried to dig here with our hands, but we couldn't.

In every corner of the old kasbah of Nablus, there is destruction. A mosque damaged by what appears to be a direct hit.

The Israeli military say they don't know how that happened.

There part of a school blown away. Israelis say the school gate was strapped with explosives. In the city itself, block after block bears the scars.

HUSAM TUT (ph): We've been living here for something like 35 years, in this building.

MACVICAR: We met Husam Tut (ph) on Granada Street. It was the second time in 12 days he had been outside.

The Israelis, he said, have been everywhere.

TUT (ph): They stayed five days completely shooting everywhere, everything that will move.

MACVICAR: This was a war, Husam said, that neither he nor his neighbors expected or wanted.

TUT (ph): This is an old city. They don't have a huge imagination that this was going to happen with us.

MACVICAR: The now familiar story -- no electricity, no water, not enough food.

Hours and days of fear spent cowering indoors, terrified children, and enough quiet on Monday to defy the continuing curfew.

As we walked with Husam, a regional marketing manager for Motorola, with many Israeli friends, we talked about anger, about politicians, about what happens next

TUT (ph): Are we asking for too much? I don't think so.

All what we're asking for, is to live next to each other in peace.

MACVICAR: In peace, he said, two people side by side, is what his neighbors say they still yearn for, too.

Sheila MacVicar, CNN, Nablus.

ANNOUNCER: Next -- bound for Bethlehem, relief workers make their way into a sealed-off city.

UNIDENTIFIED RELIEF WORKER: Access has been the issue. It has kept people hungry, without water, without medication.

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM JERUSALEM is back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: I want to get to Bethlehem right now. Before the sun came up earlier today, in the early morning hours, an explosion was heard right near Manger Square on the north end of the Church of the Nativity.

The IDF -- the Israeli Defense Forces -- they were exploding a factory, they say, that was being used for explosives making. There was smoke seen when the sun came up. Our crew on the ground smell (ph) it at daylight earlier today.

Also, the standoff does continue inside that church. In fact, for two weeks now about 200 Palestinians have been holdup inside.

The U.S. is working with Israel right now on a proposal -- a proposal the Palestinians so far have completely rejected.

Israel says the gunmen can either seek exile permanently or turn themselves over for arrest for the Israeli police.

But while that standoff does continue, the town of Bethlehem and the people living there have frankly been under siege from the very beginning.

But as John Vause now reports, help in Bethlehem is on the way.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bound for Bethlehem, a convoy organized by five Christian groups, aid for a city under siege.

For more than two weeks, the Israelis have tried to stop humanitarian groups at military checkpoints. But with the ban lifted, this was the first major shipment of food, water, medicine.

UNIDENTIFIED RELIEF WORKER: The access has been the issue that has kept people hungry, without water, without medication.

VAUSE: First stop Beit Jala, on Bethlehem's outskirts. There they unloaded 1,000 packages, each a week's supply for a family of five -- sugar, flour, rice.

Not enough for everyone here, but a start.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sukar.

VAUSE: Overnight announcements on local television said the aid would be distributed door to door. Some came anyway, like Lucy Hadwi (ph).

LUCY HADWI (ph), BETHLEHEM RESIDENT: I want to take my food for my children.

VAUSE: She spoke for many here describing the last two weeks under Israeli occupation.

HADWI (ph): Bad. Bad, John (ph), what I want to tell. Hard and bad and they treat us like we are animals.

VAUSE: The convoy moved into Bethlehem, just as curfew was being lifted -- three hours of daylight for these residents. No wonder the streets were crowded.

JOHNNY FACKUCCHE, BETHLEHEM RESIDENT: You like prison in your house. You can't moving. You don't have the food in your house.

You are -- if your child is sick, you don't have the medicine to give them.

VAUSE: There was also a Jewish charity in the convoy. Last week the Joseph Storehouse was helping the victims of a suicide bombing.

BARRY SEGAL, JOSEPH STOREHOUSE TRUST: We would like to be able to visit each of the families and give them a good hug and encourage them and say, hey, we're all praying for the peace of Jerusalem, so ...

VAUSE: This part of Bethlehem is still considered a closed military zone, because it is so close to the Church of the Nativity.

And it's for that reason that many of the residents here have missed out on previous shipments of aid.

And even when the curfew is lifted for a few hours each day, most are too afraid to venture out.

Like Halla Besus (ph), afraid of the Israeli soldiers, afraid of the Palestinian gunmen, she stayed indoors. Now, though, there is some food in her cupboards donated by Jews.

HALLA BESUS (ph), BETHLEHEM RESIDENT: And thanks that there's somebody who see us and who help us.

VAUSE: But for her family of five, this food will barely last a few days. Then what?

BESUS (ph): I don't know exactly what I must do after that, but we will not eat so much.

VAUSE: A choice many others in the West Bank will be force to make, even as more convoys arrive.

John Vause, CNN, Bethlehem.

ANNOUNCER: Next, a one-on-one with Israel's Prime Minister.

SHARON: I will make every effort to reach peace. I meant to make painful concessions for genuine, durable, true peace ...

ANNOUNCER: And a response from the key Palestinian representative.

ERAKAT: And it's really ironic that this man says he's committed to peace.

What peace when you confiscate Palestinian land? He denies Palestinians' rightful freedom.

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM JERUSALEM is back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back to Jerusalem. Let's check the top stories again for what happened throughout the region on Monday. First up, Secretary of State Colin Powell went to Beirut and he went to Damascus, Syria to talk about the escalating situation there in southern Lebanon. On Tuesday, he will meet yet again with Ariel Sharon, the Israeli Prime Minister. Then on Wednesday it's off to Ramallah for his second sit down meeting with the Palestinian Chairman Yasser Arafat.

As Secretary Powell continues to work for peace, Israeli forces arrested this man today, Marwan Barghouti, the Secretary-General of Arafat's Fatah movement. Also in an interview on CNN earlier on Monday, Mr. Sharon said Israeli forces will start to withdraw from the West Bank within one week's time with the exception of two towns. The two towns, being Bethlehem and Ramallah.

That was just one of many things that the prime minister had to say earlier today to CNN's Wolf Blitzer. Once again here is Wolf with the prime minister.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: We are here at the prime minister's residence in Jerusalem.

Mr. Prime Minister, thank you very much for joining us on CNN, CNN International, all of our networks. Appreciate it very much.

ARIEL SHARON, PRIMIE MINISTER OF ISRAEL: Thank you.

BLITZER: Let me ask you the question the whole world has been asking you. And maybe you can give us the answer. When will the Israeli military withdraw from those areas in the West Bank that they recently reoccupied?

SHARON: Ultimately, we don't have any intention to stay in those cities or cities of terror. We are accomplishing our mission now. And I made it very clear that once we will accomplish, we will be leaving.

BLITZER: You say within a week, you will be out of all of these areas with the exception of Bethlehem unless there's a resolution of that issue?

SHARON: And Ramallah.

BLITZER: And Ramallah. You won't be out within a week of Ramallah.

SHARON: Unless we'll be able to -- if those terrorists will be handed over to us, we'll leave there.

BLITZER: But you will stay in Ramallah around the headquarters of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority, until those individuals that you want are handed over to you?

SHARON: Those individuals and I want to say these individuals, the ones we seek now that they have just some people there that who are looking for. We speak about the heads of the Popular Front, the terrorist organization that instigated, planned, and killed Minister Zibri (ph) inside Jerusalem.

First of all, they think justice should be made. That is the first thing. Second, I don't think the public opinion here will accept it, will not accept it. And the third point is that the attorney general is very strict on this thing and said they must brought and tried in Israel.

BLITZER: We've discussed the issue of Ramallah. You're going to stay there until you get those people you want?

SHARON: Yes. Yes.

BLITZER: We've discussed Bethlehem. Jenin.

SHARON: Jenin...

BLITZER: You say within a week, your forces will be out of Jenin?

SHARON: No, it will be before.

BLITZER: It'll be before a week?

SHARON: Yes.

BLITZER: You know the accusations that have been made against the Israeli military, that Israeli troops committed a massacre at that refugee camp.

SHARON: But you know, you already know that this story is a lie. It's a lie. What happened there, it was a very hard battle there. I think that the Israeli force is not like any other armed forces being involved in a very hard battle. We're very careful not to hurt civilians.

BLITZER: President Bush, days ago said, and let me read it to you precisely what he said. And he's a strong supporter of Israel as you well know. "I meant what I said to the prime minister of Israel. I expect there to be a withdrawal without delay."

SHARON: So as a matter of fact, that's what we are doing. Said that very clearly. Once we accomplish, we'll be moving. It's a very -- I think we're involved in very heavy battles. I think there is -- it's about President Bush, first of all, we feel deep friendship. And the relations are very friendly. And I think that we share common values. And I think we share same targets. It's acting and fighting against terror. That's what we are doing.

BLITZER: Even your Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, whom I interviewed yesterday, effectively says there is no other leader of the Palestinian people. There is no alternative to Yasser Arafat. And if you're not going to sit down and negotiate with him, who will represent the Palestinians?

SHARON: First, the problem is Mr. Arafat is that you cannot reach peace with him. BLITZER: The Secretary of State of the United States is definitely trying. He said the meetings yesterday in Ramallah were useful and constructive.

SHARON: Look, the secretary has said the secretary met him, spent several hours with him. I met the Secretary yesterday. I'm going to see him again tomorrow. But one thing I can assure you, that if somebody want to reach peace, and we want to reach peace, and I am myself committed to peace.

BLITZER: The Secretary of State went to Beirut today. He went to Damascus today to try to restrain the situation along Israel's northern border. How tense of a situation is this? Because there's a great fear that the Hezbollah mortars could result in Israeli retaliation and a broader regional war, perhaps even with Syria?

SHARON: So just to say -- now you said this about what we have been talking before. I believe that we may reach peace. I will make every effort to reach peace. I'm going to make painful concessions for genuine, durable, true peace.

BLITZER: I know that Israel will be celebrating its 54th Independence Day beginning tomorrow night. And congratulations to you and to your country for that.

SHARON: Thank you so much.

BLITZER: Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: After that interview, I talked with Saeb Erakat, the Chief Palestinian negotiator, and put on the table to him what Ariel Sharon told Wolf Blitzer, that the military would start moving out within a week. Saeb Erakat dismissed that and said Sharon's message was not clear.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Bill, I think the Secretary appreciated very much the fact President Arafat published the statement yesterday, condemning all acts of terrorism whether targeting Israelis or Palestinians. And the point today is when you want to declare a cease-fire, you need two parties.

One party disappeared. Palestinian Authority has been targeted and damaged. We no longer have Palestinian areas. They are all reoccupied. So I think the Secretary understood that first things first. An Israeli immediate withdrawal from the areas that are occupied and President Arafat's full commitment to carry out all obligations emanating from the cease-fire from 1402 and other agreements.

HEMMER: Let me try a different approach then. If the military withdrawal doesn't happen to your satisfaction in the days to come, or immediately in your words, will the suicide bombers come back to Israel?

ERAKAT: Well, it's not the point. Your question was about our ability to stop them. And we want to do everything...

HEMMER: Well, certainly it's the point for the Israelis. And I guess that is my point tonight and my question.

ERAKAT: OK, well, the point, Bill, that they entered our areas. They destroyed the infrastructure of the Palestinian Authority. They destroyed our forces in order to prevent these suicidal bombings.

Now in the last incursions. We had three of them. Now we're telling Sharon, I don't think you're going to stop these actions by military means, by making the Palestinians living the way they live, by destroying their livelihood. It's not going to take a military solution. Because now instead of having one authority, without the Palestinian Authority, you're going to end up with 3.3 million authorities each seeking revenge.

HEMMER: Well, but Mr. Erakat. Mr. Erakat, you know the Israeli position. They're saying the military action was a result of the suicide bombing, specifically the one that happened on the night of Passover in Netanya. And they say that their own security is being threatened by these terrorist attacks.

If that's the case, and you want to work toward some sort of meaningful cease-fire, and I know you say that you cannot control all of them, but certainly you have the power with you to talk publicly about this and condemn it continually, not just yesterday on Saturday with that statement in Arabic.

ERAKAT: We have always done so. And yesterday with respect to the situation of the siege, the closure of the destruction, the massacre in Jenin, the massacre in the old city of Nablus, the siege on the Nativity Church, Bethlehem areas, the destruction of the Palestinian infrastructure, we continue to do so.

But now I think you say it. You want deeds and not words from us. So what we're telling you now, Sharon had made sure in the last 16 days to destroy the Palestinian Authority. And he's doing a damn good job at it. He's destroying our infrastructure. He's destroying our abilities. So we don't want to find ourselves giving so much commitments in war for Bill Hemmer to stand two weeks from now and say Palestinians have not delivered on what they promised.

We want to have a credible situation. And the credible situation begins only if we can resume our action as a Palestinian Authority. If we can resume to carry our obligation from Palestinian areas which no longer exist because they are reoccupied by the Israelis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: That was Saeb Erakat actually from Sunday, not on Monday. Our mistake. We rolled the wrong interview. But in the interview earlier today, Saeb Erakat dismissed Sharon's word because he says unless there's an entire withdrawal from the West Bank, then the Palestinians believe the words are hollow.

Saeb Erakat again earlier today told me that he has not dismissed completely the possibility of an international conference, but he says once again, it's very important for Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian leader, to still have a role in those talks. Our talks will continue right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Secretary Powell, as we mentioned was in Lebanon earlier on Monday afternoon. And he went there in part to talk about this part of the region known as Shebaa Farms. For a long time now, there's been an ongoing dispute as to who the Shebaa Farms belong to. And the answer, frankly, depends on who you talk to.

Richard Roth now on the dispute of Shebaa Farms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Goats, scrub brush and rocks. Welcome to Shebaa Farms and yet another Middle East flashpoint. Named after the nearby village of Shebaa, the dozen or so farms are not exactly lush countryside. But it is land rich with potential wider conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbors, Syria and Lebanon.

Israel and those Arab neighbors don't agree on which country owns the farm. Israel gained control of the Shebaa Farms when it captured the strategic Golan Heights from Syria during the 1967 War. But in 2000 after Israel withdrew from Lebanon, U.N. officials were surprised to learn that Beirut government now claim Shebaa Farms as part of its territory and was complaining that Israel was still on its land.

The United Nations declined to support Lebanon's view. The U.N. decision then and now is that the Shebaa farms lie on Syrian soil.

FRED ECKHARD, U.N. SPOKESMAN: It's Israeli occupied Syria.

ROTH: But Lebanon disputes the United Nations ruling.

HOUSSAM ASAAD DIAB, LEBANESE DEPUTY U.N. REPRESENTATIVE: [through translator] Lebanon reserves its right to liberate all its territories in the occupied Shebaa Farms with all possible means.

AARON JACOB, ISRAELI DEPUTY U.N. AMBASSADOR: Well, the Lebanese opinion is not supported by any other actor in the international scene.

ROTH: Very little happens in Lebanon without Syria's approval. Analysts say Syria has latched onto Shebaa Farms as a justification for those Hezbollah fighters to assault Israel.

MIKHAIL WEHBE, SYRIAN U.N. AMBASSADOR: [through translator] The Shebaa Farms are Lebanese territories still under occupation, under Israeli occupation. And therefore, Lebanon has the right to recover its occupied territories. ROTH: So in this confusing scenario, Israel says it is occupying Syrian territory. Syria says that Israel is occupying Lebanese territory.

ROTH (on camera): Despite Lebanon agreeing with Syria, not just U.N. maps but Lebanese historical textbooks place the Shebaa farms in Syrian hands before the 1967 War. Just another so-called disputed territory in the Middle East to argue about, despite what the United Nations says. Richard Roth, CNN, the United Nations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Next, the road to Ramallah. Our Nick Robertson runs into some road blocks on the way to his new assignment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're turning around again. We've been told at this checkpoint that there's no permission. But we're leaving because we believe we have found a route. We've been told of a route that avoids all the checkpoints.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We're back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: An Arab summit meeting in 1964 led to the formation of the Palestine Liberation Organization. In 1969, Yasser Arafat became chairman of the PLO Executive Committee.

HEMMER: We're going to hit the road for a moment now as we check the roadmap from Jerusalem north to Ramallah. It's only about a ten- mile stretch or what should be about a 20-minute drive. But as Nic Robertson found out, now en route, on duty in Ramallah, he found out getting through the checkpoints can be an entirely different matter.

Here's Nic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Driving along busy Jerusalem streets, there was little indication of the problems I was about to run into. Hours after Secretary of State Colin Powell left Ramallah following his meeting with Yasser Arafat, I was on my way into the town to replace my colleague, Michael Holmes.

ROBERTSON (on camera): We're standing at the outskirts of Jerusalem now. The traffic is thinning out quite considerably as we're headed out towards this checkpoint. The checkpoint should be open. The Israelis have said they're opening these closed military areas. We're just about to find out.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Indeed at the first checkpoint, no problems. I asked driver Samier (ph) if he was worried?

SAMIER: Not yet, because it's not dark. But when it starts to be dark, it's better to stay in Jerusalem.

ROBERSTON: It was just after 4:00 p.m. We had about three hours of daylight left for a journey that without checkpoints would take about 40 minutes. When we reached the next checkpoint, however, soldiers told us it was closed.

(on camera): Closed because of an on going military operation. We left, but we've now been called by the Israeli defense force. They tell us that the checkpoint is now open. And we're going to go back and try again to get into Ramallah.

(voice-over): Arriving back at around the checkpoint 6:00 p.m., evening patrols were leaving. If we weren't allowed to pass now, it would soon be too late. An hour later and still no permission. (on camera): The Israeli defense spokesman tells us that there's a document that we can sign. And if we sign that document, then that will allow us to go into Ramallah. It's too late to go in tonight. It's almost nightfall now. So we're going to come back tomorrow morning and try and get in again and see what happens then.

(voice-over): Day two and loading up again. This time, we were going to try a different checkpoint. Mistafah (ph) is my driver now. Samier is working elsewhere. I ask him how he rates our chances of success.

MISTAFAH: I would hope so, you know, to be open, the checkpoint now, you know. Because now I speak with some driver ther. And they say to me that it's closed now.

ROBERSTON: When we get there, crowds are gathered around a busload of Palestinian prisoners being returned to Ramallah, and refused entry again.

(on camera): Well, we're now on a 20 minute drive to another checkpoint on the edge of Ramallah. The Israeli defense force tell us if we want to get in, this is the checkpoint to use.

(voice-over): We find a handful of journalists hoping they, too, will be allowed through. The response I get from the soldiers manning the checkpoint is now all too familiar.

(on-camera): Well, we're turning around again. We've been told at this checkpoint that there's no permission. But we're leaving because we believe we have found a route. We've been told of a route that avoids all the checkpoints.

(voice-over): A route that, until a short time before, had been closed according to another driver. However the CNN team in Ramallah had heard it was open. And when we get there, they are ready and waiting with the CNN Landrover. A quick change of luggage and a brief hand over with the man I'm replacing. And we're on our way.

(on camera): Well, I'm finally in Ramallah. It's taken me just over 20 hours to get in here. And we finally came in through a checkpoint that essentially wasn't even a checkpoint. We drove up an open road and into the town.

(voice over): Back at the checkpoint and for all but a handful of others, Ramallah still appears to be a very hard place to get into.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Ramallah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: In a moment, the rally in Washington. They turned out in force in favor of Israel. The report, an update from the nation's capitol and what went down on Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: When Secretary Powell arrived in Beirut, Lebanon, earlier on Monday this is part of the scene he saw. Demonstrators taking to the streets protesting Israeli military action right now under way in the West Bank. Certainly troubles in this part of the world have had a rather polarizing effect of many different parts of the world.

Not the case though in Washington, D.C. On Monday, it was a rally in favor of Israel. And more on that now here's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Billed as the largest pro-Israel rally ever, the event featured a parade of high profile U.S. political leaders declaring solidarity with Israel's battle against terrorism.

RUDY GUILIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: We're not afraid. We're not going to cower. We are not going to back down. We are going to stand up for who we are and what we are.

KARL: Representing the Bush Administration, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz also expressed support for Israel, but he drew scattered boos when he expressed sympathy for the Palestinians.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: Israelis are not the only victims of the violence in the Middle East. Innocent Palestinians are suffering and dying in great numbers as well. It is critical that we recognize and acknowledge that fact.

KARL: Wolfowitz who is among Israel's strongest supporters in the Bush Administration was also booed when he said both sides would have to make concessions to achieve peace.

WOLFOWITZ: The United States recognizes, as do the people of Israel, that hard decisions must be made by both sides to achieve a lasting peace.

KARL: The administration's policy of urging Israel to reverse its recent military incursions also came under attack. SENATOR HARRY REID (D), NV: How then can we, or anyone, reasonably ask Israel to allow terrorist responsible for murdering innocent Israelis to remain free and continue to plan more attacks? We can't!

KARL: And even as Colin Powell prepares for another meeting with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, speaker after speaker portrayed Arafat as a terrorist.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Americans know that Yasser Arafat is nothing more than Osama bin Laden with good P.R.

KARL (on camera): Although there is strong support in congress for the pro-Israel and anti-Arafat views expressed at this rally, there's an equally strong feeling that Congress should take no significant action on this issue until Colin Powell has completed his mission to the Middle East.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: One final word tonight from Jerusalem. Throughout Israel beginning last night around 8:00 local time and continuing well into Tuesday, it's a national holiday. It's National Memorial Day for Israel to take time and honor its fallen soldiers in war and combat.

And certainly this part of the world over the past 54 years has seen its share of battle. And once again they are going to battle today. We have seen it front and center. Secretary Powell is here to try and make some sort of sense of this. But to this point his efforts have been less than fruitful.

He'll try again on Tuesday. Meetings with Ariel Sharon. Then on Wednesday, back to Ramallah and the compound with Yasser Arafat. We'll be here to see it all. Fingers crossed. Thanks for watching tonight. We'll see you again tomorrow, live from Jerusalem.

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