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Bethlehem: Partial Breakthrough at Church of Nativity

Aired April 30, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: A partial breakthrough in Bethlehem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): They came out one by one, escorted through a no man's land by monks and priests who live at the Church of the Nativity compound.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A major exodus from an ancient church caught up in a modern-day standoff, but the crisis is far from over. Israel says Palestinian gunmen they call terrorists remain holed up in the Church of the Nativity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: They are and were accused on specific cases of terror, killing, murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A testing time for the Christian custodians of one of the holiest sites in the holy land.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): How long can you stay?

REV. RAZMIG, ARMENIAN ABBOT: Well, I was - until I die. Until I sacrifice myself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A city under curfew.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): This is the old city's main market. Under normal circumstances, it would be crowded with people buying fresh fruit and vegetables and meat. But for almost a month now it's been covered with these festering piles of garbage. The smell is bad and it's getting worse by the day. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM: STRUGGLE ON SACRED GROUND. Now, here's Mike Hanna.

HANNA: Here in Bethlehem, the dawn is still a few hours away, and daylight will bring new efforts to end the city's siege and suffering. It's been four weeks since some 150 Palestinians entered the Church of the Nativity, one of Christianity's most holy places. Israeli troops still surround the sixth century building, but in the course of the day, there have been progress and attempts to end the standoff. Tuesday, a number of Palestinians left the church peacefully.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANNA (voice-over): They came out one by one, escorted through a no man's land by monks and priests who live in the Church of the Nativity compound. Israeli soldiers examined the identity papers of each and then a walk across Manger Square to a waiting bus. Some clearly delighted that the one-month ordeal holed up in the compound was over.

One of the Palestinians who came out of the church was immediately rushed to a hospital. His condition not disclosed. And only after a thorough search to ensure he was not caring explosives or weapons.

The Israeli security around Manger Square intensified through the evacuation. These troops positioned under a painting depicting the birth of Jesus that Christians believe occurred where the Church of the Nativity now stands. On the Israeli side, the belief that the day's events are evident of progress and peacefully resolving the crisis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can assume that hope, that this release will be used as an example by the priests inside for further negotiations.

HANNA: And a cheerful wave from the Palestinian negotiators who secured safe passage for this group.

(on-camera): An estimated 120 people still remain inside the Church of the Nativity and this crisis, the standoff, continues.

(voice-over): At the heart of the negotiations still to come, the fate of the more than 20 Palestinians holed up in the compound who Israel accuses of carrying out attacks on Israeli civilians. But more than 20 Palestinians on their way to an undisclosed venue for questioning and, afterwards, says Israel, those not on its wanted list, will be allowed to finally return home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HANNA: The Vatican now taking a more active role in this crisis. The Pope is sending a special envoy to the region. Cardinal Roger Etchegaray is an 80-year-old. He's a close aide of Pope John Paul II and he'll be coming to the region to aid in negotiations.

The Roman Catholic Church has a special interest in resolving this standoff, but the situation in Bethlehem touches on divisions within the whole of Christianity, as well as divisions between Christians and Muslims. As CNN's Jerrold Kessel reports, this makes the situation even more complex and delicate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KESSEL: A testing time for the Christian custodians of one of the faith holiest holy land sites. Father Razmig, Abbot of the Armenian Monastery, like other the men and women of cloth, is trapped in the middle within the Church of the Nativity, between the besieging Israeli troops outside and the besieged Palestinian gunmen who are themselves besieging his community within.

RAZMIG: I will stay because it's my commons, my house. Where do I go?

KESSEL (on-camera): How long can you stay...

RAZMIG: When I -- until I die. Until I sacrifice myself.

KESSEL (voice-over): When the Palestinian gunmen took shelter in the basilica, few imagined the standoff would last this long. Amid evil style siege, now into its fifth week, creating growing concern that the political and especially the religious fallout could endure after the siege was over.

CANON ANDREW WHITE, ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY'S ENVOY: Of course, such a conflict within a holy site always has a religious dimension to it. But we hope with the negotiations we'll enable relationships to remain good particularly between the Muslim and Christian communities in Bethlehem and we hope that it will not, in any way, prevent relationships with all three faiths moving forward.

KESSEL: For Palestinians, this church is a key symbol of unity between Palestinian Muslims and Christians. Yasser Arafat, a devout Muslim, regularly attended Christmas mass in the church, which is built over Jesus' believed birth spot. The Palestinian leader only missing this past Christmas because he was forcibly marooned in Ramallah.

Periodic exchanges of fire around the church punctuate a keen awareness among the warring parties and over the centuries, the holy land has all too often been prey to religious war.

(on-camera): One thing that can be said about this bloody 18- month confrontation, even through this most bloodiest of phases, is that the two sides seem indeed to have done their best to avoid the confrontation slipping into the realm of a conflict between religions.

(voice-over): Both warring sides seem to have taken pains not to damage the building itself, but church officials worry this declared respect hasn't stopped them from undermining the church's true purpose. MSGR. MICHEL SABBAH, LATIN PATRIARCH OF JERUSALEM: It concerns me, of great deal, the fact that the holy place has been, in a way, prevented of functioning properly, and accomplish its spiritual mission.

KESSEL: And however the siege is resolved, the foundations of the church itself as an institution have been rocked. Christianity's anyway tenuous situation in the holy land eroded. A nightmare picture for church officials, one of the besieged gunmen disguised as a nun to put off Israeli snipers.

Metropolitan Timothy is a leading local cleric of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch faith, the main custodian of the Nativity Church and largest holy land denomination. He rules what he sees as a double-barrel challenge to a sacred principal, the church as sanctuary.

TIMOTHY: The holy places throughout the centuries always have been a place of refuge for many people, believers or not believers, and the church always had the power and had the authority to protect the people. But obviously, it's a very delicate question certainly. It is a theory that who entered with arms in the church is violating the sacredness of the place.

KESSEL: As besiege dragged on, the pressure intensified. Several of the priests have come out, while others remain inside. Church officials are grieved by the church's powerlessness here.

TIMOTHY: Their inability so far to influence one side or the other of the conflicted parties, I mean, to settle this case, underlines the weakness of the church. In the holy land, we are very sensitive with the - with precedence.

KESSEL: Only two years ago, here inside the basilica, Pope John Paul II managed to throw an embrace over the different religions of the holy land, but that was when peace was predominant, at least in the offing, at a time when a church message of reconciliation fell on fertile political ground. Now, a different mood is enveloping this holy site.

(on-camera): Father, what will your prayers be tonight for ending this?

RAZMIG: Please, please stop the -- I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say.

KESSEL (voice-over): Prayers muted in this holy place. Prayers, which have not muted the battle and when the basilica bells forcibly silent for the past month do finally ring out a political and security resolution of the bitter dispute here, they'll herald no new moment for the church here in the place which was its very cradle.

Jerrold Kessel, CNN, Bethlehem.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HANNA: Religious differences between Jews, Christians and Muslims, but the base of the crisis, too the political differences between Israelis and Palestinians.

Earlier Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres spoke to my CNN colleague, Bill Hemmer. We are joined now by Bill Hemmer from the CNN Center in Atlanta - Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mike, thank you. One of the reasons that siege has lasted more than four weeks is that Israel is determined to get at least 20 of the Palestinians remained inside that church. The Israelis consider those Palestinians to be terrorists and when I talked to the foreign minister earlier today, I asked why the Israelis are resisting calls to let those men either go into exile in Gaza or be taken into Palestinian custody. Her is Shimon Peres on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERES: We have a double problem with it. Number one, they have penetrated the church against all norms, unaccepted norms to respect the holy places. That's one point. The second point is, unfortunately in the past, where persons like it went to trial and put in prison, they discovered the revolving door. They were not kept there. So we want to be sure that they will be brought before the court, justice will be done, and whatever will be the prison, they will have to respect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Also during our conversation, the foreign minister talked about the fate of Yasser Arafat and Israel's refusal to cooperate earlier today and earlier in the week with the U.N.'s fact- finding mission on Jenin. We'll get to those comments a bit later in our broadcast. But also, I'll be back a bit later to give you a closer look inside the Church of the Nativity, a place Christians around the world certainly revere, a rare inside look coming up. But for now, back to Bethlehem once again. Here is Mike Hanna - Mike.

HANNA: Thank you very much, Bill. Well, the streets of Bethlehem, dirty and dangerous coming up right after the break.

ANNOUNCER: Next, the sights and sounds of a city under siege from the cigarette lines to trash piles to students longing for school.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISRAA SALHAB, STUDENT: We miss our teachers and my friends, and the school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Also, a special look at the Church of the Nativity, at history's crossroads, and in the crosshairs.

And later, the other standoff, when will Yasser Arafat come out? LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM: STRUGGLE ON SACRED GROUND continues in a moment.

Go in depth on the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians. Head to CNN.com. While there, see interactive features and our special report, "Mid East: Centuries of Conflict." It's full of explanations on the issues, history and culture of the region. For AOL users, the keyword is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Bethlehem is an ancient city dating back to the Old Testament. Today, some 50,000 people call Bethlehem and the surrounding area home. Muslims hold a slight majority of the population.

HANNA: During that break, there was a short burst of gunfire. Something that is a regular occurrence. Bethlehem is dangerous. That is why we wear this body armor when we are out on the streets or exposed in this type of position.

Throughout the night, Israeli tanks and armored personnel carriers rumble their way through the streets. People stay indoors. They stay indoors for much of the day as well because a curfew is in force and has been throughout this month long siege. CNN's John Vause takes a look at how the residents of this holy city make due.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE (voice-over): They gather in small groups at homes around Bethlehem, children of all ages locked out of school, now taking their lessons under siege. Ibrahim Al Fseisi normally sells souvenirs to tourists. These days there are no tourists so over the past few weeks he's been teaching fourth grade English, Arabic, math and science.

IBRAHIM AL FSEISI, SUBSTITUTE TEACHER: You know, it is a little bit difficult for me, but I am trying my best. So even the children, they are helping me because they want to learn.

VAUSE: Classes are held four hours a day Sunday through Thursday. All ages taught by parents worry their children are missing out on the most basic education.

Al FSESI: We like our children to be educated because a child, if it's not educated, he will lose his future.

VAUSE: Israa Salhab is 13 years old. She wants to be a teacher and while she enjoys the home schooling, like everyone else, she looks forward to the day when the curfew will end.

SALHAB: We miss our teachers and my friends, and the school.

VAUSE: Everywhere else, Bethlehem has come to a standstill. Piles of garbage grow higher by the day. An estimated 1,500 tons litter the streets. Damaged buildings and roads left unrepaired because when the curfew is lifted for a few hours every few days, there is a frantic rush to buy groceries and especially cigarettes. City officials estimate it'll cost at least $8 million and two years to rebuild from this occupation and say another $15 million has been lost because no one has gone to work for almost a month.

(on-camera): This is the old city's main market. Under normal circumstances, it would be crowded with people buying fresh fruit and vegetables and meat. But for almost a month now it's been covered with these festering piles of garbage. The smell is bad and it's getting worse by the day. And there are flies. Flies everywhere. All of them with the potential of spreading disease.

(voice-over): The biggest danger is to young children, especially from dysentery. And as the standoff continues, there are warnings that soon the people here will openly defy the curfew.

ZIAD AL-BANDAK, BETHLEHEM DEPUTY MAYOR: Well, some days, there are citizens of the city, they will go out and they will say, "We are not going to stay in our homes. We will see what the Israelis are going to do if we go in masses in streets."

VAUSE: It seems the Israelis may soon be facing another dilemma, not only how to get the Palestinians out of the Church of the Nativity, how to keep thousands more inside their homes.

John Vause, CNN, Bethlehem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HANNA: There are some new temporary residents in Bethlehem, the Israeli soldiers who are patrolling the streets of the city, the Israelis soldiers who are surrounding the Church of the Nativity. Here is how some of them feel about the situation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are here to protect our families and friends and our home. They are afraid to walk in the streets because of suicide bombers. From where I live, all sorts of things happen on buses and in the city and things like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The country is in a state of terror. And we just have no other option. We just have to stop terror. It's impossible to see our country this way. People are afraid to leave their houses. And our own independence day, people were afraid to go out and celebrate because of this -- all of this terror that has raged our country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We treat everyone who comes out of that building. We treat people who we know are terrorists and as well as -- of course, treating our own soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact is that every time come to take an injury or someone that is injured, we are afraid that maybe he has a bomb on himself or maybe he has any kind of a trick that could danger us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HANNA: These soldiers, members of the Parachute Battalion that came to Bethlehem just over a week ago, before that, they'd been involved in massive military operations in the West Bank town of Hebron. We'll take a closer look at the Church of the Nativity right after the break in LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM.

ANNOUNCER: Millions worldwide consider it sacred ground. Next, a special look at the Church of the Nativity.

And later, an unanswered question and the frustrations of fact- finding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have not been twiddling their fingers. They've been doing some very useful work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: The Church of the Nativity is built over one of Christianity's most sacred sites, the grotto, where according to tradition, Mary gave birth to Jesus. The current church was built between 527 and 565 A.D. replacing an even older structure.

HANNA: The current crisis taking place at one of Christianity's holiest shrines. It's the Church of the Nativity or the compound that contains the Church of the Nativity. For more on this, let's go back to CNN's Bill Hemmer at the CNN Center in Atlanta - Bill.

HEMMER: Mike, the siege in Bethlehem started about a month ago, April 2, in fact. And since that time, no reporter has been inside the church and that's made it very difficult to get an understanding of what's happening on such sacred ground. One man though that knows that sacred ground very well is with us tonight from Boston, Massachusetts. Harvey Cox is a professor of divinity from Harvard University.

Professor, good evening to you. Good to have you on the program.

PROF. HARVEY COX, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Good to be here, Bill.

HEMMER: We want to show our viewers -- we've talked so much about the standoff in Manger Square and the Church of the Nativity, but we're going to put up a bit of a graphic here to show the floor plan for the church. And I'm going to direct our viewers to the very bottom of this screen, just off the picture, Door of Humility. This is the main entrance to the church. It doesn't stand but four feet high. Give us perspective as to how and why this door was built in this manner.

COX: There was a fairly big door there for many years. The church was built, of course, in the fourth century, 300s. When the crusaders came, however, in the 11th century, they made the door much lower to prevent people from riding their horses in, either crusaders or the Muslims. And now, you have to bow to get in. It's only about four feet high. So they call it the door of humility, but it was originally built as a door to exclude horses.

HEMMER: Well, if we go back to the map, too, you can see just inside the Door of Humility, there is a police post. I don't know when this was created or why it was created, but I think the point it makes, Professor, is that this church has been essentially under fire since the very beginning.

COX: The church has seen a lot of turbulence over the years. Yes, it's been wrecked at least once. There have been struggles within -- inside the church. But one of the most important things to mention, Bill, is that this is one of the few churches in the world in which Muslims also worship along with Christians and that goes back the seventh century when the Arabs came and conquered Jerusalem and saw that this was a church dedicated to the Virgin Mary, who's honored in the Koran, and asked for permission and were given permission to use this church for worship and they still do.

In fact, there's a little stone in the church that I've seen when I've been there pointing toward Mecca so that Muslims know which way to pray.

HEMMER: Well, back on the map again, let's move further up into the church to essentially the centerpiece, the Grotto of the Nativity. This is subterranean. You have to take a small staircase down to get...

COX: Right.

HEMMER: ... below to the area, but we have a picture here, Professor. There are two essential areas down below. One to the left and one to the right. I'm curious to know why there are two locations, which states one is where Mary gave birth to Jesus and the other is where he laid in the manger...

COX: That's right.

HEMMER: ... is that correct?

COX: That's right, where the actual birth is said to have taken place and where his mother placed him in the manger.

HEMMER: And inside on the left, there are four points on a star set into a stone. Check that, 14 points. Why 14?

COX: The 14 points are the 14 points of the universe. The whole universe was gathered here, according to tradition and Christian belief. This is the very spot where Jesus Christ was born according to tradition and, therefore, the whole world became the vessel, in a way, of his presence.

HEMMER: We had other theories on that but we weren't quite sure about it. There's an outside picture we want to show our viewers here in a moment here. There has been a lot of concern, frankly, that the church may be subject to damage given the current standoff. How fragile or how sturdy is that, Professor?

COX: The church is not a particularly sturdy one, Bill. It's made of stone, but it's been there for 1,500 years, as you mentioned, since it was rebuilt by Justinian (ph). The roof is made of wood. It's leaky. And when I was there last, I saw some exposed wiring. It's full of mosaics and curtains and tapestries. I think a fire would be utterly devastating to this church, and that could happen.

HEMMER: The final point I want to make here is about the three different religions that basically have jurisdiction. You have the Armenians. You have the eastern Orthodox sect from Greece and you also have the Roman Catholics.

COX: Right.

HEMMER: At what point did these group of Christians come in and make up a division for this church?

COX: Well, the Roman Catholics began arriving while it was still the Greek Orthodox Church, but -- in the eighth and ninth centuries. But then after the crusaders came in the 11th century, they all began to cooperate and now, they cooperate very well. This is a really rather harmonious and amicable arrangement they have, those three different Christian denominations. It's an ecumenical center.

HEMMER: Professor Harvey Cox from Harvard University, we appreciate your thoughts tonight.

COX: Good to be here.

HEMMER: Good to talk to you again, sir, I appreciate it. Good luck at Harvard, Professor Harvey Cox in Boston.

I'll be back later this hour with more of my interview with Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres. Stay tuned for that. Also, stay tuned for Mike Hanna, back live in Bethlehem in a few minutes. Stay with us.

ANNOUNCER: Next, other areas that have been under the gun, the latest news from Yasser Arafat's compound, and the struggle to find out what happened in Jenin; also walking the streets of a Biblical city when LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM: "Struggle On Sacred Ground" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Yasser Arafat hasn't been out of Ramallah since December. He's been trapped in his compound since March 29th.

HANNA: Welcome back to Bethlehem, where behind me the lights are on at the Church of the Nativity, shining brightly in this dark hour before dawn.

Twenty miles away from here is the West Bank city of Ramallah, and that's the scene of another scandal between Israelis and Palestinians. The reasons for the standoff there the same as the standoff here, Israel wants to get its hands on six Palestinians holed up along with Yasser Arafat in his headquarters in that West Bank city. Also to be resolved is the fate of Yasser Arafat himself.

I'm joined now from Ramallah by CNN's Matthew Chance. Matthew, there has been progress here in Bethlehem. What progress in the negotiations in Ramallah?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well that progress, Mike, appears to have disappeared here in Ramallah, at least for the time being. Let me say it seemed for a while that this standoff here outside the presidential compound in Ramallah was to be resolved imminently and that Yasser Arafat would be permitted to step outside of his battered presidential compound for the first time since essentially being laid siege to inside there with perhaps several hundred other people since the end of March.

A second day of meetings, though, between Palestinian officials and security experts from Britain and the United States has come to an end here. Yasser Arafat though is still inside that compound with no agreement on his release.

Both the Israeli and Palestinian leaderships have already signed up, of course, to that U.S. initiative to bring that siege to an end by placing six Palestinians that you mentioned from the compound, wanted by Israel, under international responsibility and under guard at a Palestinian prison facility in the West Bank town of Jericho.

Israel wants to make sure that no revolving door situation takes place here with those men being allowed to walk free as soon as Israel gives its order for the troops to leave.

Palestinians for their part want guarantees for the security of the prisoners once they're handed over to the British and U.S. team, and guarantees that they will not be handed over ever into Israeli custody. The Palestinian officials say there are still disagreements over the fine details of that plan.

More meetings between Palestinian officials and those security experts are scheduled to resume tomorrow, Wednesday local time, rather this day local time, Wednesday. The expectation, according to officials inside those meetings, is that there will still be an agreement, but as so often is the case here, that agreement is much further off than we initially saw. Mike.

HANNA: Well, Matthew, give us a sense there. Here is Bethlehem Israeli troops are essentially in control of the whole city. What is the situation in Ramallah? How extensive are the Israeli military operations there?

CHANCE: The Israelis have imposed a tight security cordon around the presidential compound, some distance from where I'm standing right now. The bulk of Ramallah, which is a city of about 50,000 Palestinians, is free of an Israeli troop presence but there is this cordon around the compound that extends for several hundred meters from the walls of that compound.

Within that security cordon, there is a complete curfew, which is imposed after, at seven o'clock at night every evening, and no movement is permitted there. To give you an idea of the tension on the ground here, every night that I've been here, there have been hundreds of machine gun rounds lighting up the skies and rattling through the air here, really from the Israeli side. Also single shots we're hearing coming from the Palestinian side.

So there's still a lot of tension between the Israeli forces on the ground here and the population at large here in Ramallah, Mike.

HANNA: Matthew Chance in Ramallah, thank you for joining us. And next, a question that is getting harder and harder, and the regions stretch all the way from the West Bank refugee camp of Jenin to the corridors of the United Nations; Jenin, justice and truth when LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: The Jenin Refugee Camp was established in 1953. Israel says 23 of the recent suicide bombers came from the Jenin camp.

HANNA: What exactly happened in Jenin may never be known. The Israeli government is still refusing to cooperate with the U.N. fact- finding team. The team itself is still in Geneva, waiting for access, and there's talk that the team may even be disbanded before it has begun work.

I'm joined now by CNN's Senior U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth. Richard, what's the situation.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Mike, this United Nations fact-finding team is still marooned in Geneva, Switzerland, more than a week after they got there, and now this fact-finding team is learning some facts of its own.

Secretary General Kofi Annan may delay their departure and, in fact, might abort the entire mission. Secretary General Annan speaking here at the United Nations tonight said he has formed a credible, competent team full of international experts, both diplomats and police officials, and he says now there is really not much else he can do.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOFI ANNAN, SECRETARY GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: In these circumstances, I can not keep these gentlemen and women sitting in Geneva and we will have to draw the consequences and take action.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: The Security Council is poised late tomorrow afternoon to begin discussing an Arab-based resolution with harsh condemnation of Israel. It might up the ante a little bit by saying the council should impose its will and force Israel to accept this fact-finding mission.

Annan is now looking for help from the Security Council, calling on Washington and others to keep the phone lines busy to try to unblock this impasse. Mike.

HANNA: Richard, what is the position of the U.S. in all of this? It supports the fact-finding mission. If there are any sanctions to be suggested, what would the U.S. be likely to do?

ROTH: The U.S. would be likely to veto any measure that might force Israel to comply; however, publicly the United States is saying it is behind Israel in some ways but would really like to see this fact-finding mission be accepted.

Behind the scenes though, I think the United States was heavily involved in getting Israel to accept a U.N. representative to go there. It's very likely Washington is still talking to Israel. Israeli officials are now saying they need more reassurances from the Israel despite the public word from Secretary General Annan. Annan tonight said he understands the anxieties and concerns of Israel.

HANNA: Thank you very much indeed, Richard Roth at the United Nations. Israel remains deeply suspicious of the U.N. fact-finding efforts, and Foreign Minister Shimon Peres went into specific reasons in his conversation with CNN's Bill Hemmer. With more of that once again, here's Bill.

HEMMER: Suspicious is a good word, Mike, thanks and hello again. Shimon Peres told me that Israel does not trust the U.N.'s fact- finding commission because it does not trust the people who are on it, and he adds that Israel's lack of cooperation has nothing to do, he says, with a cover up of what happened in Jenin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PERES: We have nothing to hide and we don't want to hide anything. We feel that we did something, not out of our choice but our lack of choice. The Palestinians should have done it and then there wouldn't be any trouble in Jenin whatsoever.

HEMMER: There are many in your government who believe the U.N. is stacked against Israel. Do you believe the United Nations is biased against your country?

PERES: I'll say it honestly. When you look at the structure, the answer is yes because you have three groups in the United Nations, which are (UNINTELLIGIBLE) biased against Israel. This is the group of most of the Arab countries, 22 of them, most of the Muslim countries, 55 of them, many of the non-aligned nations. So before you begin any judgment in the United Nations, you discover that Israel has a very small chance to win even when she is right.

HEMMER: In Ramallah now, if Yasser Arafat is given freedom of movement, will the Israeli government arrest him at any point?

PERES: No, that's not our intention, but we expect Arafat or his elected chairman of the Palestinian Authority to be true to his commitment, namely to fight terror, to stop terror, and then all the differences between us by negotiations not by bombs. This is the minimum that we expect from him. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Shimon Peres says it is not for Israel to fire the Palestinian's current leaders or nominate the new ones, but he says Israel expects that the Palestinian elected leader will implement the agreement they have signed together, his words from earlier today. Back to Mike Hanna now in Bethlehem.

HANNA: Thank you very much indeed, Bill. In just a minute, we'll take you through the streets of this ancient city. There are certainly no tourists, but there's still very much to see, coming up in LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM, back after this break.

ANNOUNCER: Time for your opinion. Will the United Nations conduct an objective investigation into what happened at the Jenin Refugee Camp? To take the quick vote, head to cnn.com, the AOL keyword is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNA: It's difficult to move through the streets of Bethlehem, difficult too to penetrate the anger, suspicion and fear felt by its residents. But Jason Bellini looked at the city behind the headlines and this is what he found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Almost a month has passed since Bethlehem was effectively shut down, locked down, and closed up to all except the Israeli military and a few journalists, who are themselves limited in their mobility.

Like most days of late, the streets are quiet, dirty, and nearly empty, the 24-hour curfew confining all but the most desperate, determined or restless. To imagine the magnificence of the town as the people here remember it, you have to view it from a distance, where the skyline is marred only slightly by the smoke of smoldering garbage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all it is a city open and all of the people from all over the world, they are coming to visit the church where Jesus was born and it is a really beautiful town.

BELLINI: No one has taken down the decorations left over from the millennium festivities, though events of the last month crushed the town's dreams of a peaceful new century.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new millennium it became not a paradise but hell.

BELLINI: In the town where Christians believe their savior, Jesus, was born, the structures and the symbols are still in place. People here still consider theirs a holy city.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are about ten churches here you have to see here and you have to see ten mosques here. All of them live together.

BELLINI (on camera): Aside from the Nativity Church, which is the most famous one, Bethlehem is a city full of churches, like this one right here. This is the Lutheran Christmas Church. We've been knocking on the door now for a good five minutes or so. No one has answered us. We don't know if anyone's inside. Perhaps there are people there and they're just too afraid to come out.

BELLINI (voice over): One woman we met felt it not too big a risk to sit on her doorstep with her children to get some fresh aid, she said. I asked her to tell me who lives in Bethlehem. Are people who live here wealthy?

"These are middle class and poor people living here" she said. "Now we are all in the same place" a place famous as the birthplace of the Prince of Peace, now grabbing the world's attention for a very different reason. Jason Bellini, CNN, Bethlehem.

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HANNA: A traditional Christmas carol sung by Christians opens with the lines: "O' Little Town of Bethlehem, how still we see thee light. Above thy deep and dreamless sleep the silent stars go by." But here, 2,000 years after the time that Christians believe Christ was born, there is no stillness, no quiet, no silence, no peace. Only the stars remain. That's it for LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM. I'm Mike Hanna. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next.

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