Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Carter Visits a Biotech Lab; Is One of the World's Largest Cold War Rivalries About to Thaw?; Some Cubans Say Castro Has Improved Their Lives

Aired May 13, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Jimmy Carter, the former American president on a mission to Cuba.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (through translator): ... and to discuss ideals that Rosalynn and I hold dear, principles on which we established the Carter Center 20 years ago -- peace, human rights, democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Fidel Castro, the only man to lead communist Cuba since his revolution more than four decades ago. Is one of the world's longest Cold War rivalries finally about to thaw?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FIDEL CASTRO, PRESIDENT OF CUBA (through translator): You will have free access to any place that you may wish to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: So far, Castro is honoring his pledge. Carter visits a top biotech lab and rebuts a State Department claim; Cuba is spreading bio weapons technology.

The Bush factor -- the president stands firm on a promise made last year, the embargo won't go away until democracy arrives in Cuba.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will fight such attempts until this regime frees its much political prisoners, holds democratic free elections and allows for free speech.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: The Cuban people, despite the hardships, the way they say Castro has improved their lives.

LIVE FROM HAVANA: INSIDE CASTRO'S CUBA, here is CNN's Kate Snow. KATE SNOW, HOST: We're joining you live from the Malecone, one of the most famous thoroughfares, boulevards, here in downtown Havana. We're in a section of the city known as Old Havana or Haviyaha (ph). This is part of the city that they are trying to renovate and restore. They're trying to make some more tourist dollars here. The government heavily promoting tourism and trying to get taxes that tourists pay here in order to refurbish many of these buildings.

This is the section of town where President Jimmy Carter was yesterday. He took a tour of Old Havana. Today, on his first full day of visiting this city, he went to another place, to a biotechnology center. Lucia Newman, our Havana bureau chief reports on what Mr. Carter did today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): What was conceived as a visit to learn about Cuba's scientific achievements ended up highlighting a far more controversial issue. At The Center For Biotechnology, Jimmy Carter asked about U.S. allegations linking Havana with bioterrorism, and questioned the Bush administration's motives for making the charges on the eve of his visit here.

CARTER: I asked them specifically on more than one occasion, is there any evidence that Cuba has been involved in sharing any information to any other country on earth that could be used for terrorist purposes? And the answer from our experts on intelligence was no.

NEWMAN: Mr. Carter says the Cubans assured him they were not exploiting technology to Libya or Iraq. It wasn't the only controversial subject of the day.

Jimmy Carter arrived in Cuba Sunday to begin his historic visit. His host assured him he was free to go anywhere and meet anyone he pleased. Carter did just that by inviting two prominent government opponents to breakfast.

ELIZARDO SANCHEZ, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST (through translator): The most amazing thing for me is the good intention this man has brought with him to Cuba. We hope that the two governments, Washington and Havana, take this opportunity to start to twist in the bilateral relations that can't be any worse.

OSWALDO PAYA, CUBAN DISSIDENT: He sums up the situation in Cuba and our plans for peace (INAUDIBLE) struggle spurred by the new hopes raised by the Varela Project, a subject Mr. Carter was very interested in.

NEWMAN: The Varela Project is an unprecedented opposition initiative to introduce political change through a referendum, an initiative the Cuba government would rather ignore. So far, Jimmy Carter, a staunch human rights activist, has met behind closed doors with President Fidel Castro and his opposition and will continue to do so in the next few days. Cuban people, meanwhile, are standing by with a mixture of curiosity and amazement, about the visit of a former American president, once vilified here and now welcomed as a friend.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN: One of the key moments of Mr. Carter's visit to this country, Kate, will very likely be tomorrow night. That's when the people of Cuba will be able to hear his opinions, when Mr. Carter makes an address at University of Havana, which incredibly is scheduled to be broadcast live and uncensored on Cuban state television, Kate.

SNOW: Lucia, I know we've been hearing him mentioning that everywhere he goes, as if he really wants the Cuban people to watch this tomorrow night. Do we know what he's going to say? Do we know what his message will be?

NEWMAN: Well, we know that Mr. Carter wants to talk to everyone in this country. He's said as much. We know he's spoken privately with President Castro, with his opponents as well. What they've talked about, of course, he's kept very close to his chest.

But it will be -- it's impossible to imagine that he won't talk about two very, very important subjects, one being the relationship between the United States and Cuba, which he very, very much wants to improve, and another of his favorite subjects of course, human rights and civil liberties in this country -- Kate.

SNOW: Lucia Newman here in Havana, thank you.

Despite Jimmy Carter's visit to Cuba, and despite sharp criticism from some U.S. lawmakers and business leaders as well, President Bush shows no sign of easing his hard-line policy toward this country of Cuba. CNN's senior White House correspondent John King joins us now live with a look at the factors that may be influencing Mr. Bush's policy -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Kate. Well, on Monday, after President Carter is back here in the United States, President Bush will travel to south Florida. He will deliver what aides say is a major speech on his Cuba policy.

Now, of course, following Mr. Carter's speech, some might ask -- will the president ease the embargo in any way? Will he go any lighter on the Cuban regime? A senior administration official tonight, that question put to him. He responded simply, "No."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The president's critics see hypocrisy in a policy that embraces trade and engagement as way to encourage change in Communist China, but remains wedded to a four-decade old policy of embargo and isolation when it comes to Cuba.

REP. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: The Cuban government just seems to survive, no matter how bad the economy gets over there. You know Fidel Castro isn't missing many meals because of the embargo. The Cuban people simply suffer.

KING: Corporate America says it suffers, too, while other countries rush to invest in Cuba.

THOMAS J. DONOHUE, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Every time the United States puts another sanction on it or reauthorizes an existing sanction, our allies, our best friends have a cocktail party and celebrate.

KING: But Mr. Bush appears in no mood to budge. Just last week, the administration accused of Cuba of sharing biological research with -- quote -- "rogue states" like Iran, Syria and Libya. The president plans to visit Little Havana in South Florida next week to celebrate Pre-Castro Cuban Independence Day, to reaffirm the promise he made at a White House event marking the occasion last May.

BUSH: My administration will oppose any attempt to weaken sanctions against Cuba's government until the regime...

(APPLAUSE)

BUSH: And I will fight such attempts until this regime frees its political prisoners, holds Democratic free elections and allows for free speech.

KING: Cuban-Americans are a key constituency in the state that narrowly decided the outcome of campaign 2000. Mr. Bush won more than 80 percent of the Cuban-American vote two years ago, up from the 68 percent Republican nominee Bob Dole won back in 1996.

DONOHUE: The president, you know, has some political need to appear strong here, because of Florida. I hope he doesn't exacerbate the problem. We can't turn the clock back any further. We have to turn the clock forward.

KING: Florida Governor Jeb Bush also is counting on Cuban- American support. And the president will headline a fundraiser for his brother during next week's south Florida visit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now, top aides to the current president made clear that Mr. Bush would have preferred it had the former president stayed home, or at least away from Cuba. And those -- as those reports flow in from Havana that President Carter is free to say and do as he pleases, this White House says it would be nice if Mr. Castro would afford those same freedom to the Cuban people -- Kate.

SNOW: John, President Carter made some really strong remarks today when it came to this accusation from the U.S. government that the Cuba is engaged in promoting bio weapons, bioterrorism. He said, "Look, I've had many conversations. I was briefed fully before I came over here." And Mr. Carter saying at no time did anyone share any information with me that they thought that Cuba was developing weapons of biological terrorism. How is the White House responding to that and isn't he then confronting -- it seems like Carter is directly confronting the Bush administration.

KING: He certainly is. And that confrontation is something the Bush administration had hoped to avoid, even as it voiced some displeasure with President Carter's trip.

Secretary of State Powell was asked about this today and he said that he wanted to make it clear the United States was not accusing Cuba of having biological weapons, but of having the capacity to develop them. And he says the State Department and others in the government are worried because Cuba has that capacity and President Castro has been traveling, trying to drum up business with nations this administration calls rogue nations. So the secretary being careful to say the accusation is that Cuba could develop the capacity, could share the research not that it already has. And also, the administration trying to take pains to note they did not raise this just on the eve of Mr. Carter's visit. They do note that another State Department official, an intelligence official did present very similar testimony to Congress back in March -- Kate.

SNOW: And John, one more question for you, you mentioned at the beginning that the treatment of communist China by the United States government is quite different than the way they treat Cuba. Why the difference between the policies?

KING: Well, Mr. Bush says directly that in the past when there have been some easing or at least some thought of easing in terms of the relations with Cuba, he accuses one, the Castro government of killing Americans who were down there as part of some of those flights that were shot down, and also killing some of his own people as they try to leave the country. So Mr. Bush says there have been so many direct human rights abuses, including the murders of Americans that he wants to treat this one differently.

But again, a growing number of conservatives -- and you know this from covering the Congress -- even a growing number of conservatives in the president's own party say simply that perhaps it was the right approach, but after 40 years it is simply not working and the government needs to think about doing it a different way. But this president will reaffirm on Monday he's not ready to do that -- Kate.

SNOW: John King tonight at the White House. Thank you.

Before we go to a break, we wanted to tell you a little bit more about where we are here. We're standing, as I mentioned, on a street called the Malecone. It's a very famous street here in Havana. People come here to fish. They come here to swim during the day. At night, it's very cool down here, very brisk, and people come to simply stroll along the water. Many couples come down here to make strolls. And it's in an area called Old Havana. As we mentioned, this is an area that they're trying to develop for tourism.

Around us, here are fortifications that were built by the Spanish when this was a Spanish colony. So it's a very historical part of town. We'll be right back with more from LIVE FROM HAVANA. ANNOUNCER: Next, an unprecedented move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWMAN (voice-over): These simple, battered cardboard boxes contain the raw material of the boldest ever attempt to introduce sweeping political changes to this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: But how will the Cuban government react to this massive grass roots effort? We'll ask the leader of the country's parliament.

Also ahead, we'll go from Havana, Cuba to Miami's Little Havana, part of the Cuban exile community where the Carter trip is the talk of the town.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): In a community of political passion, where Fidel Castro and the future of Cuba are an obsession, there is now a mix of hope and worry over this historic visit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: And later, that was then. Where is he now?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): You'd never know Elian Gonzalez lived here in Carnes (ph). On the streets of the city, there are no pictures of the boy, no signs, no posters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM CUBA returns in a moment, but first, time for your opinion. Is it time for the United States to lift its embargo against Cuba? To take the quick vote, head to CNN.com. The AOL keyword is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Fidel Castro heads one of the few remaining Communist countries in the world. Castro took power in Cuba on New Year's Day 1959, following a revolution. Since then, the U.S. has had 10 presidents.

SNOW: Welcome back. LIVE FROM HAVANA. Political opposition here in Cuba is technically illegal, although there are some dissidents who are able to operate at least somewhat. They're able to get by with some activities, but their actions are limited, their freedoms are restricted. Sometimes, in fact, they are even detained by the Communist government.

But before Jimmy Carter arrived here yesterday, there was something very remarkable that happened. It had to do with a petition drive, a drive for greater freedom. CNN's Lucia Newman again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWMAN (voice-over): These simple battered cardboard boxes contain the raw material of the boldest-ever attempt to introduce sweeping political changes to this country. The pages inside represent the hopes of more than 11,000 Cubans who signed the Varela Project, a petition to legally try and force a national referendum, asking Cubans whether they want everything from free and Democratic elections to the right to free enterprise and free speech.

PAYA (through translator): We've collected these signatures not in an environment of openness and perestroika, but of persecution, kidnapping, threats and all kinds of obstruction of the state security forces.

NEWMAN: For over a year, Oswaldo Paya, a long-time dissident, organized the collection of signatures throughout the country. Authorities, he says, confiscated thousands of signatures. But last Friday, Paya and other organizers prayed, and then took their petitions straight to the pro-government national assembly.

(on-camera): Cuba's constitution stipulates that citizens who collect more than 10,000 signatures have a right to propose legislation to the national assembly. But the government would scorn this unprecedented challenge to its system claims that the project is organized and financed by Washington.

(voice-over): Paya says that's rubbish.

PAYA (through translator): No institution, not even from abroad, can finance the Varela Project. Freedom can't be financed. You can't finance this show of determination, faith and labor by more than 10,000 Cubans who have overcome their fear and are asking for their rights.

NEWMAN: Even if the national assembly were to debate the Varela Project, it's virtually inconceivable that it would approve the legislative proposal. Yet, Paya isn't undaunted.

PAYA (through translator): There is an urgent need for change in Cuba. The Varela Project asks for nothing more and nothing less than for the law to recognize universal and fundamental rights, which are actually guaranteed in our current constitution.

NEWMAN: How the government will deal with this challenge is still uncertain, yet for many who signed the petition, just having set this precedent is a victory in itself.

Lucia Newman CNN, Havana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: After Castro, what happens? Will there be a dramatic revolution or more of the same? The man that some say will lead Cuba after Castro minces no words in saying that he thinks the Cuban system will remain much the same. The powerful president of Cuba's General Assembly joins me now. His name is Ricardo Alarcon.

Mr. Alarcon, thank you for being with us. The Varela Project that you just heard about, they turned in 11,000 signatures in a petition on Friday to your general assembly. Will you allow a referendum?

RICARDO ALARCON, PRESIDENT, CUBAN PARLIAMENT: Well, I have to follow the constitution and the law, which clearly does not exactly correspond with what has been said recently. But the important thing is this -- essentially, it is nothing more than a media operation, a propaganda operation, exactly like Mr. Barton's bioterrorist allegations.

The key of the -- what's going on appears on CNN since early this morning. Next Monday, President Bush is going to Miami to meet with his terrorist friends to announce tougher measures against Cuba. And those borders and this project are nothing more than smoke screen, an operation to prepare the foundation for what is going to happen next Monday in Miami. Just wait a few days.

SNOW: I apologize, Mr. Alarcon, I can't hear you very well, but I'd like to ask you about another subject, and that is bioterrorism. You heard President Carter's comments today. He referred to what Castro, your leader, said yesterday. Fidel Castro saying that basically anyone who wants to see your facilities, investigate, take a look can do so. So would you allow a group of say international observers to come here and study the situation and look -- international weapons inspectors to take a look?

ALARCON: Why don't you ask yourself where was the origin of this big lie? If this was new, it was new, the statement by Mr. Bush. But a few months ago, the Cuban-American National Foundation, the Miami people that found terrorist and back terrorist from Miami -- that means terrorists that are now active in the U.S. has been making that allegation.

Why the State Department choose precisely this time to make that big lie? Simply to prepare Mr. Bush trip to Miami next Monday. Of course, we are open to international visitors at our centers. They come by the hundreds. How can you sign an agreement of cooperation or a trade in this area with other people, including American companies? Don't forget that one of the countries involving with those centers is the United States of America.

SNOW: But at this point, Mr. Alarcon, to dispel directly some of the charges that you say are false, that your government says are false, would you allow another international group, say from the United Nations or some group like that to come in here now and take a good look?

ALARCON: Serious people, respectable people, not the Miami people, not Mr. Bush, of course, they are coming. Mr. Carter is a respectable man, a serious, decent human being, and he was there. We invited him to come. Does he want to come back with experts on this area? Why not? But we are not going to play this game that has only one clear aim -- to strengthen the war against Cuba. This is a complete fabrication from the very outset.

SNOW: What do you expect out of this trip? There are a lot of expectations on both sides here. What does the Castro government expect? What's the most you can hope for?

ALARCON: Well, we hope -- we are convinced that from his trip, placing the idea of the possibility of having a more normal relationship between the two neighbors, the possibilities for more exchange between Cuba and the U.S. and including also a possible official exchange and cooperation between Cuba and the Carter Center. And in a way, that may help to build in the direction that many Americans want, not just to have Mr. Carter visiting us. So that we welcome and we are very happy with, and very honored. But allow everybody else, every American to come down and to learn from themselves. They can come down and even go to the biotechnology centers to see for themselves who is lying.

SNOW: Is that a message that you think Mr. Carter can bring back to Washington?

ALARCON: Well, he has said very clearly that his visit has a personal character. He's not representing any government, but he, I believe, would carry a message to the American people, a message of friendship and a message of mutual respect that we hope would be the foundation for our relations in the future.

SNOW: Ricardo Alarcon, very much appreciate your time tonight. Thank you so much for being with us.

We, of course, will continue at CNN to follow President Carter's trip through the country. He stays here until Friday. He has plans to meet with many different people. He has plans to visit centers all over the country. He will take a trip outside of Havana. And also, President Carter will be meeting with some political dissidents on Thursday. We will, of course, be following that later on, as things develop. For now, we take a quick break.

ANNOUNCER: Next, in Cuba, the peso only goes so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW (voice-over): If you have dollars, you can fill up with higher quality gas, buy a stove or dishwasher.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: The power of the greenback when we come back. And later, no Harley parts, no problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): When it comes to keeping Cuba's hogs on the road, necessity is clearly the mother of invention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We'll check out Hog Heaven in Havana. LIVE FROM CUBA is back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Cuba lost four to $6 billion a year and went into recession after the Soviet Union collapsed. Tourism drove its recovery, surpassing sugar as the mainstay of the country's economy.

SNOW: The Cuban peso is the official currency here on this island, but the dollar, the U.S. dollar, has a very powerful pull here. It's amazing. In fact, if you walk around, you see dollars being exchanged everywhere you go. For many Cubans, the greenback has really become a way of life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): In old Havana, with its crumbling colonial facades on a narrow street down a dark hallway, the set welcomes visitors. For about 25 bucks a night, she rents out a room in her apartment. Her visitors are from all over, she tells me. The symbol on the door means she has a license to charge them in dollars. If you make dollars, she says, it's a lot easier to get by.

The bathroom is 1958, but the newer furnishings were bought with greenbacks, and she's not the only one on the block offering a room.

SNOW (on-camera): Three, four, five, six rooms.

(voice-over): Dollars have created a parallel economy in Cuba. Cuban workers can spend their peso salaries, on average, the equivalent of $12 a month, but only on certain things. The bread you get with pesos or a government ration card is nothing compared to the sweets on display at a dollar bakery.

If you have dollars, you can fill up with higher quality gas, buy a stove or dishwasher. And check out this dollar mall in central Havana, from perfume to shoes, even sinks, tubs and tires for sale.

(on camera): Dollars are so important, Cubans have found all sorts of creative ways to earn them, some of them legal, some of them illegal, like selling counterfeit cigars or pirated videotapes or CDs. We talked to one man who sells CDs. We agreed not to tell his name or show his face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I can buy them for $2, then sell them for $4 or $5. You understand? It's survival.

SNOW: "A lot of people do it," he tells us. "Life is hard here."

On Obispo Street, a man approaches to ask if he can take me to a restaurant inside someone's home. Their called palidares (ph).

Llamila (ph), a former systems analyst, and her husband Pepin, a former mechanical engineer, quit their jobs when they got a restaurant license. It allows them to seat only 12. They pay extra for the sign out front. And they can only charge in pesos, which they quickly convert to dollars.

PEPIN CHORENS CEPEDA, RESTAURANT OWNER (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): What does it mean? First and foremost having economic independence. That's important, to meet your needs and the basic and the not so basic.

SNOW: For many Cubans, economic independence means the freedom to make and spend a buck. Not every Cuban has access to dollars. But for many, it's a way of life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: If you have dollars here, you can buy just about anything, although it's not always legal. A lot of times it's on the black market. To give you a couple of examples, we have been served lobster, which is illegal from the black market. We have also seen at one person's house direct satellite TV, for which he paid more than $1,000. Back with more in just a moment.

ANNOUNCER: Next, voices from Cuba's exile community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NINOSKA PEREZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: It's not the time for Carter to go to Cuba.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALFREDO DURAN, CUBAN COMMITTEE FOR DEMOCRACY: It's about time we normalize that relationship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Mixed opinions on what the trip to Cuba can accomplish.

And later, from the playing fields to the classrooms. What appears to work right in Cuba?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): Cuba's regular schools rank at the top in Latin America. Old mansions were converted to classrooms.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

SNOW: Former President Jimmy Carter's visit is making headlines here. This is this morning's newspaper, the headline "The doors of Cuba are open." But it is also making headlines and causing a lot of talk in Miami, where the exiled Cuban community is centered. I'll speak with a later of that community when we come back.

ANNOUNCER: And later, two years after he was in the spotlight, we'll pay a visit to Elian Gonzalez' hometown. So, whatever happened to some of the major players in the custody battle? The relatives Elian stayed with in Miami remain in the U.S. The house where he stayed was turned into a museum. Attorney General Janet Reno is now running for governor of Florida. And Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the nun who helped in the negotiations, is now looking into the case of Rilya Wilson, the little Miami girl who disappeared 15 months ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Some 650,000 Cuban Americans live in Florida's Miami- Dade County. They make up 29 percent of the county's population.

SNOW: Former President Carter's trip here to Cuba is generating a lot of talk, a lot of anxiety, even in Miami's Cuban exile community, the trip generating both hope and worry, as CNN's Mark Potter reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Noontime in Little Havana, the heart and soul of Miami's Cuban exile community. Here, President Carter's type to Cuba is a source of concern. Many fear it can help soften the U.S. trade embargo and benefit Fidel Castro.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's not going to change. He won't change.