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Havana: Interview with Jimmy Carter; Interviews with a Castro Adviser and with a Cuban-American Representative; How Has Castro Stayed in Power So Long?

Aired May 17, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Ending his historic trip to Cuba, Jimmy Carter vows to press President Bush to ease his tough policy on Havana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would like to see the administration change its policy. We're hoping to split -- there's a Congress that has equal constitutional authority in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCERS: Fired up by Carter's visit, Cuban-Americans mince no words about life in Cuba after Castro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYLVIA IRIONDO, CUBAN EXILE: We need to demand the liberation of all political prisoners, the legalization of political parties, free press.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Some Cubans say life under Castro is like an animal on a leash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: Cubans are free to move around their island but not to live anywhere they want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM HAVANA, inside Castro's Cuba, here's Kate Snow.

KATE SNOW, HOST: Good evening once again from Havana, Cuba. We're joining you tonight from the Plaza of the Cathedral here in Havana.

Take a look around. This is a very central, historic part of old Havana. The Cathedral behind me dates back to the year 15 -- 1748 rather -- 1748 when the Jesuits started building it here. It's called the Cathedral nowadays, but, formally, it's known as the Cathedral of Christopher, of Christopher Columbus, Colon (ph), as they call him around here.

These days, the Plaza's also a real tourist attraction, as you can probably see behind me, some people dining over there, having a few drinks in the nighttime -- beautiful nighttime here in Cuba.

President Carter walked around this neighborhood when he was here on his first day in Cuba. Today, of course, was his last day here.

As he headed back to the states, Mr. Carter saying that his trip was a big success. He says he's particularly happy that he was able to communicate directly with the Cuban people, and he said that his comments, while often critical, were carried live and broadcast on Cuban television and radio and also reprinted in the communist daily paper.

CNN Havana Bureau Chief Lucia Newman joins us now live with more on President Carter's historic trip -- Lucia.

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: Kate, indeed, President Jimmy Carter's visit here was unique, but not just because he was the first American president to come to Cuba since the revolution, but because he has set a precedent. Quietly and with a great deal of respect, he came here to speak to the people of Cuba and to its leaders and to say things that no one had ever been allowed to say before.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN (voice-over): Jimmy Carter had come to Cuba to do three things. He left having at least accomplished two -- getting to know the Cuban people and getting to know Fidel Castro and his opponents. His third objective, to improve relations between Cuba and the United States, may have to wait.

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I recognize that foreign events (ph), that after 43 years of misunderstanding and animosity, that one brief trip could not change the basic relationships between our peoples, but my hope is that, in some small way at least, our visit might improve that situation in the future.

NEWMAN: Many who heard and saw his address to the nation Tuesday, which called not only for Washington to change, but also for Cuba to embrace democracy, say Carter has already done more than they'd ever imagined.

UNIDENTIFIED CUBAN: That speech, so different from the same worn-out rhetoric we've heard for 43 years, gave us a boost of hope.

NEWMAN: Carter says this weekend he'll send President George Bush a report about his trip here.

(on camera): Mr. Carter wants to send a clear message to the White House before Mr. Bush's Cuba policy speech Monday, a message he hopes will be taken seriously.

(voice-over): Carter says all the Cuban dissidents he spoke to are opposed to receiving direct or indirect aid from the U.S. government.

CARTER: They thought this would put an undeserved stigma on their actions which they consider to be quite heroic and, if such a policy was announced, that this would, in effect, prove the false allegation that their dissident actions in the past had been instigated and financed from the United States.

NEWMAN: President Castro, for his part, seemed cheerful as he saw Jimmy Carter off.

When we asked Mr. Castro why he'd invited the former president and allowed him to speak his mind, he responded, "Because we are right."

As though to make the point that Jimmy Carter hadn't made him change his mind about change, the Cuban leader said good-bye dressed in the same olive green battle fatigues he's been wearing for 43 years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN: Well, sometimes a choice of clothing can say more than a thousand words. In any case, Mr. Castro also said, when we asked him why he rejected former President Carter's calls for change, he said, "No, no. I'm all in favor of change," he said, "but change forward, not backward to the system that we had before."

Kate.

SNOW: So, Lucia, who would you say got the most out of this visit? Was it Carter or was it Castro?

NEWMAN: Well, you know, depends who you ask, but I spoke to a lot of dissidents, and they said that they believed that they were the ones who got the most out of it and that the Cuban people did, because they had heard, as we said earlier, messages and concepts that they had not been able to hear and especially hear right in front of their own president, which if it's true -- it's true that President Fidel Castro has not given legitimacy to all the things that Jimmy Carter said when he was here, but at least he allowed him to say them, and by doing that, he's allowing Cubans to open up a debate on that, on democracy and on change in this country.

Kate.

SNOW: Lucia Newman here in Havana. Thank you.

I had the chance to talk with Jimmy Carter just before he left, just before he went to the airport to be seen off by Fidel Castro, and I asked him of his -- about his impressions of Fidel Castro, a man that he's known now for more than two decades. Carter told me that he thinks that Castro is -- genuinely believes in a socialist system, that he genuinely believes in that, that he believes in equality, that he believes in a system without hierarchy or class. He also said that Castro has made great achievements when it came to health and education.

But Carter didn't stop there. He also had some words of criticism for Fidel Castro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He wants to retain complete control over the system and not take any chance that dissident or disagreeing groups could gain enough support to endanger his power as the undisputed leader of the Cuban government.

So those two things, I think, describe in very brief terms his basic idea. I don't see any change in the future in his willingness to permit dissident expressions from Cubans, although he has been amazingly gracious, I think, in letting my views, highly critical on occasion, be expressed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: I will bring you more of my interview with Jimmy Carter in just a few moments.

Given what Carter just called Fidel Castro's, quote, "complete control over Cuba," there are people on both sides of the Florida straits who firmly believe that the best chance for Cuba to move on will come when Castro is gone, when he's off the scene.

Our John Zarrella takes a look at life after Castro.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Havana's version of Central Park, men come every day to a spot called the "hot corner" to argue about baseball, the best teams, the best players. One rabid fan brought his dog all dressed out in the colors of Industrialis (ph), Team Havana.

Baseball is Cuba's national pastime, and it's a subject people here can talk about safely. But most Cubans aren't keen on talking openly about their expectations for Cuba after Castro.

UNIDENTIFIED CUBAN: Well, I can't predict that because we have had Fidel for a long time.

ZARRELLA: Others take the company line, that the revolution is bigger than just one man and will continue on.

UNIDENTIFIED CUBAN: I think, once Fidel goes, because he is human, we have to keep up the achievements of the revolution -- education, culture, all the things we have been struggling for years. ZARRELLA: But some who call themselves dissidents do walk out on the ledge. Thirty-year-old Felix Gonzalez says he spent time in prison for his outspokenness. He has a tattoo of the Statue of Liberty on his forearm.

FELIX GONZALEZ, DISSIDENT: Transition will take place, a peaceful transition, a peaceful change, for the benefit of the people and for freedom of people and freedom of press, freedom of expression, freedom of thinking.

ZARRELLA: That is the kind of sweeping change envisioned by Miami's Cuban-Americans. Sylvia Iriondo exemplifies the feelings of Miami's exile community that, when Castro goes, so must go the socialist state.

SYLVIA IRIONDO, CUBAN EXILE: We need to demand the liberation of all political prisoners, the legalization of political parties, free press, independent labor unions, free speech, right to free assembly, and the scheduling of free elections.

ZARRELLA: Many Cuban-Americans envision going back to Cuba and staking their claim to properties seized by the Castro government after the revolution 43 years ago.

NICK GUTIERREZ, ASSOCIATION OF SUGAR MILL OWNERS: So we're going to go down there, we're going to make our case, and we think if there's a government that respects human rights and the rule of law, we're going to be able to get those properties back on a moral level, a legal level.

ZARRELLA: But many of those homes and apartments have been occupied by ordinary Cuban citizens for decades now. They say they have no intention of moving because they have nowhere else to live.

(on camera): In Miami, the expectations are clear. No one minces words. Here you're never quite sure people are telling you how they really feel or just what's safe to say. After all, this isn't baseball we're talking about.

John Zarrella, CNN, Havana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: You could never accuse Fidel Castro of being a man of few words, in fact, especially when it comes to what he describes as the great freedoms that Cubans enjoy here. A case in point, what he describes as freedoms to be -- to have liberties here in Havana and in Cuba.

Our Havana Bureau Chief Lucia Newman sought out some Cubans to find out what they had to say about their freedoms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): On May Day, Fidel Castro said, as he's said so often, that Cuba is the freest and most democratic nation in the world. So we asked ordinary Cubans just how free they are.

"That's a question I can't answer says," this young man.

And no wonder. Cubans, like this Estria Mendoza (ph) can own their own home. "But I can't rent it to anyone, nor can I sell it to anyone except to the state," she says.

Same thing with a car, says Norgo Trohop (ph), who was lucky to get what they call here a modern car as a reward for being a good worker. "These cars can't be sold or bought," he says. The state doesn't even allow you to give your car away to a family member until you die.

Cubans are free to move around their island, but not to live anywhere they want. "If I want to go live in Alguin (ph), I can't because I come from another province," says Romelia Blanche (ph).

Cubans are free to go to the doctor, to have medical care without discrimination, but doctors aren't free to leave the country until at least five years after asking for an exit permit.

Education is free and available to all, but parents can't choose the kind of education they want for their children because religious and private schools were outlawed with the revolution.

Cubans can read newspapers and watch television, but the media, without exception, is owned by the communist state.

Cubans are free to spend the dollars relatives send from abroad or that they earn in stores, but they aren't allowed to rent a room in a hotel or at a tourist resort, even if they have the money.

(on camera): The government argues that that's equality, that until everybody can afford to stay at a hotel like this one, nobody can.

And that's not all. Only non-Cubans are allowed to invest in this country.

(voice-over): Most Cubans who request permission to travel at the immigration department can do so, unless they're dissidents, but they aren't allowed to travel with their children, and the cost of a passport, an obligatory invitation letter, and the exit permit cost more than $400, a fortune by Cuban standards.

"It's a terrible sacrifice for our families abroad to send us all that money so we can travel," says Sonya (ph).

Cubans are free to complain about their system to a point. "You have to limit yourself," says Romelio (ph), "because if you say too much, you know what happens."

And, of course, they aren't free to belong to any other party than the Communist Party, a country which clearly has its own definition of freedom and democracy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NEWMAN: For all this, the Cuban government continues to insist that its system is the most fair, the most just, and much better than in any other capitalist country, but, as Mr. Jimmy Carter discovered when he came here, freedom and democracy mean two very, very different things to him and to President Fidel Castro.

Back to you, Kate.

SNOW: Lucia, thanks.

Religious freedom is one freedom that seems to be on the rise here in Cuba. Just a case in point, the Cathedral that you see behind me is now open for mass every Sunday. There used to be a tourist market, by the way, in this plaza. They moved it away from here, cleared it on out when the pope came to visit back in 1998.

We're back with you in just a moment.

ANNOUNCER: Coming up, one on one, we sit down with former President Jimmy Carter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're the ones who are prevented from going where we wish in the entire world, and we're the ones who are prevented from selling our goods to any customer in the world or buying raw materials from any customer in the world. The restraints are on us, not on Cuba.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Also ahead, the man behind the myth. Just who is Fidel Castro?

LIVE FROM HAVANA will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: President Carter was just about to head out to the airport to be sent on his way back to the United States by Fidel Castro when we sat down to talk this afternoon.

During his five-day visit, the former president had granted no interviews and rarely spoken to the press while he was here, probably so that he wouldn't jeopardize any of the meetings that he would have or access that he was getting or so that he wouldn't offend his host.

But, today, he spoke rather frankly about his trip, U.S. policy, and the future for Cuba.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've been remarkably pleased at the freedom that I've been given to speak directly to the Cuban people. I've had a chance to talk without any restraint to dissidents, to human rights heroes as we consider them.

More than 30 of them have met with me extensively. We've exchanged views about their life in Cuba and what they think should be done in the future.

SNOW: Do you worry that now that you leave that they may face any repercussions?

CARTER: That's a question I asked myself before I met with them, and, in every case, when they have come to see me, when we made (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on where to meet, we asked them, "Do you want us to keep this meeting secret, or do you prefer to let the news media know that you're here and maybe even take your photograph or have an interview with you?"

Without exception -- I think there were probably 35 of them, and these are the heroes of the human rights movement -- they said, "We would like for our meetings with you to be well-known." So I think they have made a judgment that it's better for them if the meetings are public than to have...

SNOW: It protects them in a way.

President Bush is going to give a speech, as you know, I think, on Monday in Little Havana in Miami. It's expected that he will announce a tightening of the U.S. embargo on Cuba. That he also announce increased aid to some of these dissident groups. Will you talk to the president before he gives that speech on Monday? I know you said you'll make a report, but will you pick up the phone and call him?

CARTER: I doubt it. What I'll do is send a letter to President Bush as soon as I get back. In fact, I'm al -- it's not a letter. It's a trip report. And I'll let him know directly what these dissident groups feel about U.S. government policy and public statements.

For instance, they were unanimous and very strong in their belief that there should be maximum encouragement for American visitors to come to Cuba. They were unanimous and very strong in their belief that there should be no aid coming to them directly or indirectly from the U.S. government, that this put a stigma on them or a condemnation on them as being subservient to Washington, although this is certainly not true.

SNOW: So, in your opinion, is it a bad idea if the U.S. government announces a policy to increase aid directly to those groups?

CARTER: Not a single one of them said that they wanted to be identified in any way with financial assistance from the U.S. government. They did, however, point out to us, I think quite accurately, that they're destitute in many cases. They would like to have maximum support from religious organizations, from other groups of a benevolent nature. SNOW: With the Bush administration's stance clearly fairly strong on Cuba, do you worry that nothing will change in terms of the U.S.-Cuba relationship over the next three years?

You repeatedly said here that you hope that there's some change and that perhaps your visit contributes to that, but do you worry that that's not going to happen because of the current administration's policies?

CARTER: Well, the choice of leaders that President Bush has made in the State Department and otherwise don't indicate any flexibility. I don't know what will happen in the future, but there is an open door in our country, our system of government for change, regardless of the attitude of the White House. I would like to see the administration change its policy to more openness.

SNOW: Many in Miami, particularly in the Cuban-American community in the United States who -- believe that, if you do that, you play right into Castro's hands, if you lift the embargo and restrictions, you're giving him exactly what he's been waiting for.

CARTER: I met with those -- some of those groups, some of the most well-known groups and the most politically influential groups before I came here, as I did with other groups, and I think they approved of my visit, and there's no doubt that the restraints on American trade with Cuba and the restraints on American visitation to Cuba are deprivations of the human rights and freedoms of American citizens.

We're the ones who are prevented from going where we wish in the entire world, and we're the ones who are prevented from selling our goods to any customer in the world or buying raw materials from any customer in the world. The restraints are on us, not on Cubans.

SNOW: Let me ask you about something else. You made some comments on Monday that got a lot of attention back in Washington, D.C. When you visited a biotechnology center here, you said that before you came you were briefed by many different U.S. officials.

You said you asked repeatedly, "and no one ever told you," and I'm quoting you -- "No one ever told you that Cuba was involved in sharing information with other countries that could be used for terrorist purposes."

CARTER: That's correct.

SNOW: Do you still believe that's true?

CARTER: Well, I believe it's true that that's what I was told. I met with the representatives from the U.S. State Department, I met with the representatives of the U.S. intelligence committee -- community, I met with -- I talked by phone with the national security adviser of President Bush.

No one ever raised any question to me about bioterrorism, knowing that I was coming here and the importance of my visit, and you quoted accurately the direct question that I asked the intelligence briefers. "Is there now or has there been any evidence that Cuba contributes to any foreign country in the promotion of terrorism?" And the answer was an emphatic no.

And there's been an invitation extended since I've been in Cuba of the United States to send any investigative team the United States desires to the biomedical centers and research centers here in Cuba, and I presume that we'll take advantage of that, as well.

SNOW: One last question very quickly about Fidel Castro. You've known this man for so many years. You've been trying -- as you mentioned, since the beginning of your administration, you wanted to loosen things up, to improve the relationship. Do you see him changing? He reprinted -- he allowed the reprinting of your speech...

CARTER: Yes.

SNOW: ... in its entirety in the communist newspaper here yesterday. That's quite a feat. Do you see him making a gesture or changing?

CARTER: Gestures, yes. But basic policy changes, I don't see any evidence of that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: President Carter says that, while there are no guarantees, he truly hopes that his trip here will make some kind of a difference. He says he doesn't plan to call President Bush, but that, of course, he will give him a full report about his trip here.

We'll be back in just a moment.

ANNOUNCER: Coming up, between the cheers and the jeers, his 43 years in power unequaled, but how has he done it -- charisma or complete control? The man named Castro from inside the government.

LIVE FROM HAVANA will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Since Castro seized power here in 1959, there have been 10 American presidents, and, fair to say, he's been a thorn in the side of each and every one.

Our John Zarrella has a profile now of the man who's ability to survive is just one of his traits.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- 1959. Fidel Castro entered the city of Havana to the cheers of a crowd seemingly drunk with love for this revolutionary who had just seized power. Castro never looked back. His 43 years in power unequaled but how has he done it, charisma or complete control? ARTHUR SCHLESINGER, JR., AUTHOR-HISTORIAN: I think it's both. I think if there is strong movement the machinery or repression could go into action, but I think, you know, I think if there were a free election today in Cuba, Castro would probably win. He's the only leader people have known. They're used to him.

DOMINGO MOREIRA, CUBAN AMERICAN NATIONAL FOUNDATION: Utter fear. The repressive system as a general of the KGB put it to me in Moscow many years ago, the repressive system in Cuba, his words were something like this, the repressive system in Cuba is better than Stalin ever had at his disposal, and he said, I know we and Vistasi (ph) created that system, so we know how good it is.

ZARRELLA (on camera): There were times when events threatened to overtake him. Early on it was the Bay of Pigs invasion. A year later in 1962, the missile crisis, later the fall of the Soviet Union left Cuba without its economic crutch.

But Castro dodged all the bullets. He even dodged CIA sponsored attempts to assassinate him. Rather than weaken him, events that could have toppled him seemed to strengthen him.

ZARRELLA (voice over): And as he got stronger, his speeches got longer, very long, but he has ruled not only from a pulpit but also from the pew. He has always been a very public figure, walking among the Cuban people, standing before cheering crowds, embracing sports heroes.

He has given and he has taken away. There's no free press, no freedom to assemble, no criticizing the government, but he has given the people free healthcare and education.

JOSE RAMON FERNANDEZ, CUBAN VICE PRESIDENT (through translator): What Fidel has achieved in the social area in this country hasn't been achieved by any other poor country, and a very few of those that are not poor, even though we are under enormous pressure.

ZARRELLA: As Fidel Castro approaches his 76th birthday, he seems very much in control and not the least bit worried about his own mortality.

PRESIDENT FIDEL CASTRO, CUBA (through translator): I have never been afraid of death. I have never been concerned about death. I have learned not to feel attached to positions and not to be attached to that which is called power.

ZARRELLA: But for 43 years, Fidel Castro has been the only power Cuba has known. John Zarrella, CNN, Havana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Coming up, freedom, the future, and the Cuban government. We'll talk to the President of Cuba's National Assembly. LIVE FROM HAVANA will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Of the many Cuban officials Mr. Carter met with while he was here in Cuba, one of the most prominent is the head of the National Assembly here Ricardo Alarcon. He is Fidel Castro's top adviser on U.S. policy. Mr. Alarcon joins us now live. I appreciate you being here tonight, sir, thank you.

RICARDO ALARCON, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSEMBLY: My pleasure.

SNOW: President Carter came here at your invitation, your government's invitation and while you were certainly able to show off some of the things you're very proud of, he was also quite critical, not only of the country but also of your leader Fidel Castro. Did the Cuban government get the short end of the deal?

ALARCON: Well, we never expected a different thing. We never expected President Carter coming down here to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) but I think it was an opportunity even to discuss with him about those issues in a civilized manner.

SNOW: Specifically, what does the Cuban government gain from his trip specifically? What can he do now for you?

ALARCON: Well, we were not looking for any specific gain. I think that to have him here and to have you, to have a larger debate about the U.S. policy towards Cuba was in itself (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and of course to pay respect to a man that we respect very much because when he was president, he tried at least his best (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

SNOW: Speaking of the media, you just mentioned us, the communist newspaper yesterday, Granma, published the entire text of President Carter's speech. You also allowed it to be broadcast live on television and on radio here. That was a real first. I know that publishing the speech was a first. Why did the government make that decision?

ALARCON: Well, we offer him, President Carter that he would have a complete opportunity for speaking of Cuba. But let me tell you that when His Holiness the Pope was here, he spoke everyday, every afternoon you had him live on TV and radio.

SNOW: But he's not a political figure.

ALARCON: OK.

SNOW: But would you acknowledge that it was a first in that sense, that this was a political figure who criticized your government and yet you put his words there on paper for all to see?

ALARCON: You may say that, but we don't get political figures such as Mr. Carter every week down here unfortunately.

SNOW: He clearly wants to see the United States lift the U.S. embargo on Cuba but also President Bush clearly does not want that. He's going to give a speech on Monday in Miami, in Little Havana over there, where it's expected that he will tighten this embargo. Is there any chance during the Bush presidency of improving the relations then?

ALARCON: The answer to that will (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as you'll recall, and I think that Americans should ask themselves some questions. President Bush is going to meet in Miami with some of the most notorious terrorists of this hemisphere. With some groups that has meant financing terrorist activities against Cuba. Don't believe me. Believe the front page interviews that the New York Times carried a couple of years ago.

SNOW: You're referring to exiles in the community in Miami?

ALARCON: Yes, but particularly the Cuban-American National Convention that on the front page of the "New York Times" two years ago, it could be read an interview with the leader of the most active terrorist groups in the hemisphere, according to the Justice Department, saying that they got the money from the same people that is going to meet someone in the Bush next Monday in the afternoon.

SNOW: But many of those people in Miami are not politically active. They're just Cuban people, Cuban exiles who happen to live in Miami, who believe that the U.S. embargo is an effective way to fight Castro essentially.

ALARCON: Many people in Miami, and it was an issue a few days ago, the last poll of Cuban Americans and it was clear that they were at least evenly divided on that particular issue.

SNOW: I've seen that poll. That is changing somewhat.

ALARCON: You saw that. But President Bush is not going to meet those common Cuban Americans. He's going to meet with former convicted killers like those who killed an American girl and an Ambassador from Chile in downtown Washington, D.C. and were freed last summer by Mr. Ashcroft.

SNOW: Let me pick up a different point here. President Carter met with some 23 political dissidents while he was here in Cuban.

ALARCON: Approximately.

SNOW: Approximately. Have they put themselves in any kind of compromising position now for meeting with him?

ALARCON: Why don't you come or stay here or return next month and you will see that His Holiness the Pope also met with them. When President Carter arrived found them at their homes or visited him at his hotel. The Cuban reality can not be transformed just by repeating slogans at roads in Miami. This is not true that these people will suffer anything whatsoever for meeting President Carter.

SNOW: Ricardo Alarcon, thank you so much for joining us tonight, appreciate it. I would love to come back to Cuba some day. Thank you.

He has a law degree. He came close to playing pro baseball in the U.S. and at 75, he is now still in power. When we return, a look at the man who ruled Cuba for some four decades now, who shows no sign of slowing down. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Much of the vocal opposition to President Castro comes from the Cuban-American community in the U.S. One of the groups spearheading that effort is the Cuban American National Foundation. It was founded back in 1981 by Cuban exiles, and joining us now is the executive director of the Cuban National Foundation, Joe Garcia who joins us live from Miami. Mr. Garcia, thank you for joining us.

JOE GARCIA, CUBAN NATIONAL FOUNDATION: A pleasure to be here.

SNOW: You just heard Ricardo Alarcon. He said that President Bush will be giving a speech on Monday to, in his words, terrorists in Miami, some very strong statements from him. I want to give you a chance to respond to that. He named your group in particular. Do you have a response?

GARCIA: I think, you know, this is the kind of hyperbole that communist dictatorships use about their enemies. He's using the same hyperbole to describe those peaceful dissidents, that when the press isn't looking at them, they incarcerate, they beat up. They harass their families. They deny higher education to their children. They lose their jobs.

This is -- the only terrorist state in this hemisphere right now is Cuba, recognized by the Department of State as such, been categorized as such for the last 13 years. You know, so you can't take too much stock in it.

You know I hope I don't look like a terrorist, but trust me, the Cuban-American National Foundation is a peaceful group that advocates a peaceful policy of transition and democracy for Cuba and that's all we hope, that we can produce democracy for the people of Cuba. We have only the highest ideals. We want Cuba to someday have a political system as open, as diverse, and as wonderful as the American system is.

SNOW: Let me ask you about this. The Castro government this week, while President Carter was here, not only allowed him to come, then they broadcast his speech live on radio and television, then they reprinted it in the morning newspaper, as we mentioned, and they allowed him to meet with dissidents. Isn't that progress?

GARCIA: You know you're absolutely right. It is progress in the fact that it was done once in the last 43 years. Think about the fact that the Varella Project, which has been worked on for over two years, people have been put in jails, thousands of signatures stolen. None of that has ever gotten to the Cuban people as a whole and yes, it was put on TV and that is progress.

It is progress specifically because Jimmy Carter made the effort and the Cuban government gave him the opportunity and I have to thank President Carter for doing that. We asked him to talk about the Varella Project. We asked him to meet with dissidents, and by God he did it and we're thankful that he did it, but you and I both know... SNOW: You're talking -- sorry.

GARCIA: You and I both know that come tomorrow when the international press starts leaving Cuba, the repression begins again, the control begins again, and you very specifically asked him about the Varella Project only two nights ago and he was very specific in saying that it's a propaganda tool by the U.S. government and that he has very little intention of letting it through the National Assembly.

SNOW: Just to clarify for our audience, this is a project that turned in a petition last week...

GARCIA: Right.

SNOW: ...with 11,000 Cuban signatures demanding a referendum on the government. President Bush is expected, as you know, in Miami on Monday in your community to announce a tightening of the U.S. embargo on Cuba and yet there's a poll that's come out that shows that there seems to be anyway a movement away from wanting a tough embargo on Cuba among Cuban-Americans. It shows that the majority says that it should no longer be the principal tool of U.S. policy. Do you see that shift happening in the community there?

GARCIA: What we see in the community is that status quo is unacceptable, and I think the President of the United States understands that and on Monday, he's going to be announcing a policy that is going to be embraced by the overwhelming majority, not only of the Cuban people in south Florida, but of the entire nation.

Listen, America's greatest product is freedom and democracy and on Monday, the President's going to announce his position, which will be clearly on the side of those people who fight for democracy. He's going to announce a program that is going to be energetically supporting peaceful transition to democracy, the same way that the Reagan Administration did it in Poland and Czechoslovakia, the same way that the Clinton Administration supported civil society in Serbia, and that's the type of announcement that I think is going to galvanize the entire nation to be supportive of a process that brings democracy and liberty to the people of Cuba.

SNOW: Joe Garcia with the Cuban American National Foundation, thank you for your time tonight, appreciate it.

GARCIA: Thank you.

SNOW: You come here to Cuba and you do step back in time a little bit thanks to Castro's land of communism and the U.S. embargo, but you can also see one invasion that hasn't been completely turned back and that's American pop culture; more on that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Just up the street from us here over my shoulder is a place where American Ernest Hemingway used to hang out. It's called the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He lived here on and off for about 20 years, and these days, even though there's a U.S. embargo on Cuba, many U.S. travelers can't come here, there is still a lot of U.S. culture seeping in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice over): It's not just 1950 American cars, though it's hard to miss them, these days it's Nike's famous logo, pirated CDs and fast food joints that tell you American culture is reaching the Cuban shore.

Take one guess who their favorite basketball player is, Michael Jordan, their favorite team -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lakers.

SNOW: Lakers, the Wizards. Baggy jeans and hip hop clothes are in. So are tee shirts bearing American flags, not to make some kind of political statement, just because well it's cool.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It's the style we like, the style that draws our attention.

SNOW: Go down to La Playa (ph) and you might think you're in Malibu.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Check out the shorts, the shirt's new, walking around in flip flops that's our style.

SNOW: During the Cold War, it was the Russians who left their mark. There's still evidence of that. But the U.S. is creeping back in, often illegally on pirated CDs or bootleg tapes.

A stereo with a good antenna picks up stations from the Florida keys in Miami. Junior high girls tell me they see American music on TV. Who are your favorites? Back Street Boys, Lincoln Park, Brittany Spears.

American culture is by no means all pervasive here. You won't see any Coca Cola signs or McDonald's, but if you go looking for it and you know who to ask, you can rent pirated copies of recent American movies. We rented "Moulin Rouge," "Pearl Harbor," and "A Beautiful Mind." You deliver movies for a company?

MARIO: Yes.

SNOW: How many movies do you have?

MARIO: About 70.

SNOW: Almost all American, from "Monsters Ball" to "The Godfather." Mario doesn't want us to show his face because the movies are illegal. So a movie shows up in an American theater, then how fast do you get it here in Cuba?

MARIO: Two months, three months, maybe one week.

SNOW: One week? MARIO: Maybe.

SNOW: But Mario says he's not worried the American influence will stamp out Cuban culture. Because Cuban culture is very strong, is that why?

MARIO: It's strong, completely strong.

SNOW: Street musicians wouldn't dream of playing American songs. There are too many wonderful Cuban tunes. Even the teenagers told us they love Cuban music too. Little kids prefer Cuban cartoons, but they do know Tweety Bird and that famous mouse.

In the tiny stalls that line the streets, there's no sign of anything but Cuban products, but there's no question young people seek out American goods, adapted to fit their Cuban lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (on camera): And that's it for LIVE FROM HAVANA. Join us on Monday night as we travel across the Florida straits over to Miami for LIVE FROM LITTLE HAVANA. For now, we leave you at the Plaza of the Cathedral. From all of us with CNN in Cuba, have a good night.

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