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Chandra Levy's Death was a Homicide; Growing Worries of Nuclear War Between India And Pakistan; Clean-Up at Ground Zero Comes to an End
Aired May 28, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, HOST: We are live this evening from among other places Ground Zero. Take a look at these pictures. A somber procession eight-and-a-half months after the 9/11 attacks. The last standing piece of the World Trade Center is set to be demolished shortly. Some of the story -- one of the stories we'll be covering up next.
ANNOUNCER: A mountain of rubble nearly nine months ago. Today, the last beam left standing at the World Trade Center, it's set for removal in just a moment. We're live at the site of the deadly terrorist attack in United States history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JONATHAN ARDEN, D.C. MEDICAL EXAMINER: The circumstances of her disappearance and her body of recovery are indicative that she died through the acts of another person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: One key piece of the Chandra Levy mystery falls into place, but how was she killed and who did it? We'll go live to Washington.
Hundreds of mourners join Chandra Levy's parents for a memorial service. We'll go live to her hometown of Modesto.
Growing worries of nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA CLARK, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: Any time you have two nations who continue to have the problems they're having, two nuclear armed nations, we of course, have great concerns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Our cameras take you live to the capitals of both Pakistan and India. CNN's live from New York, Washington, California, Islamabad, New Delhi and other datelines around the globe. Now, Miles O'Brien. O'BRIEN: Good evening, thanks for being with us. At this very moment, at Ground Zero in New York, the last steel beam left standing from the September 11 attack is about to be cut down. And there, you see a live picture looking down upon the scene, a somber procession under way there. It brings to end the emotional eight-and-a-half months of removing almost two million tons of rubble from that site. CNN's Jason Carroll is covering this from our midtown bureau.
Jason, it's a somber sight indeed to see this. It's an important Milestone. I guess the question, which lies right now is what's next for that site among other things this evening.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let start out by saying one thing. Miles, it just struck me as I was standing up here looking out over the skyline, even after all this time it's still strange to stand up here, as we did so many times in the past, look over your shoulder and not see the twin towers that are standing there. It's still amazing after all this time.
Let's take a live picture. Take a look at what's left from the twin towers. As you said, it's just one steel girder. Some are calling it the Stars and Stripe Beam. It weighs 50 tons, stands 36 feet tall. Symbolically, as you can imagine, Miles, it means so much to the families who lost loved ones. It means a lot to the recovery workers, many of whom you see out there, standing out there right now.
It stood as a symbol of strength. It was used on the southeast corner of the south tower. It also stands as a symbol of change. Tonight, it will be cut down. An ironworker will go out there and use a very large torch to bring it down. It will be put on a flatbed. It will be draped in black cloth. At that point, we're being told that it's going to actually be carried out not today but it will be carried out on Thursday during a ceremony marking the symbolic end of the recovery effort down at Ground Zero. That ceremony expected to end at 10:29 a.m., about the same time the first tower collapsed.
Few ever expected this day to come so soon. The workers finished way ahead of schedule out there. Miles, just to tell you, it's a 16- acre site that you're looking at down there. One point eight million tons of debris were removed. Crews out there always keeping in mind why they were down there, always keeping in mind those who lost their lives on September 11.
The recovery effort particularly important to one firefighter who was down there for the past several months. He lost two of his sons during the World Trade Center disaster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess that hole infected all of us. It don't heal. No, no, it's not over. It'll never be over.
ED KALAUA, FDNY CHIEF: You know, our main thing was recovery and bring somebody, some peace and closure by bringing the bodies home to the families. And that's the sad part that we haven't done that for everybody. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: Two thousand eight hundred twenty-three people died on September 11. One thousand ninety-two of those have been identified.
The girder marks the shift from recovery to rebuilding. But even so, Miles, as you can imagine this is going to be an extremely difficult night for those who lost loved ones on September 11, also very difficult for the recovery workers who have been down there toiling away day after day. Thursday morning will be a difficult day for those people as well -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Jason, back to that earlier question on what might be next for that site. Clearly, some sort of memorial appropriate and I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion available about that. But I know there is some talk of developing that property in some way. What is the current thinking?
CARROLL: Well, there's been lots of speculation about what will happen with the site down there, Miles. Some are saying that perhaps, you should be some sort of -- whatever you decide to do, whether it's rebuilding some sort of a skyscraper down there, that some sort of memorial has to go down there as well. Some are also talking about putting some sort of a park down there. As you can imagine, the number of businesses, the people who live down there are really anxious to see the area come back, to recover in some ways. So right now, there are a lot of things that are being considered. Nothing definitely down on paper as of yet.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Jason Carroll in New York City, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
While the cleanup at Ground Zero enters a new phase, there is talk of some big changes at the FBI. Director Robert Mueller is scheduled to announce plans for a major overhaul of the agency tomorrow. This as criticism mounts over how the agency handled or perhaps mishandled intelligence information that presaves the 9/11 attacks. CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena has more on all this.
Kelli, a bit of a preemptive strike, I guess.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, sort of, Miles. The new priority for the FBI is very clear-cut and that is protecting the United States from a terrorist attack. Now, it is part of a major reorganization aimed at changing the culture and the structure of the FBI from crime fighting to prevention. FBI Director Robert Mueller will announce the creation of so-called Flying Squads. These are elite, mobile terrorism units that can be dispatched around the globe to give field agents a bigger picture perspective. And the FBI is also going to hire about 500 analysts with expertise in languages, world cultures and technology.
And on the agent side, more than 500 will be reassigned to terrorism units from narcotics, white-collar crime and violent crime squads. SO that's going to be the outline, Miles, on what we know right now. O'BRIEN: Well, when you look at that outline, the question immediately comes, what happens to those other areas of crime? Will there be enough attention focused there?
ARENA: Well, the thinking is that the Drug Enforcement Agency, other federal agencies, state and local law enforcement will pick up the slack. And so far, Miles, there has been not been much resistance to that idea.
O'BRIEN: Well, what about...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL BERGER, ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE: Certainly, a lot of duplication. Over the previous administration, just about every crime was being federalized. And we saw a great exception to that. So I think if anything, as long as it's done in a prudent manner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARENA: Miles, the FBI -- just getting back to our conversation, the FBI is not completely abandoning its traditional crime fighting role, but it is clearly not priority number one. And as I said, there doesn't seem to be much controversy over that.
O'BRIEN: Yeah, changing times. Now, is this just the beginning or is this the be all and end all, do you think?
ARENA: Well, this is going to take several years especially changing the culture of an organization. That's going to take a long time. But along with what the FBI is proposing, officials say that the Justice Department is rewriting investigative guidelines to give agents more flexibility in the field. Now, that's -- I'm told, especially when it comes to areas of surveillance. The attorney general is expected to announce those changes on Thursday. So two separate things going on here. And I am sure and Congress is sure that we'll continue to see fine-tuning as the FBI implements its plan.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Kelli Arena live in our Washington bureau. And as we've been speaking, we've been watching President Bush as he returns from his European tour, walking across the South Lawn of the White House from Marine One. A little pat of the dog there. He was at a historic meeting of the NATO alliance, which officially admitted Russia as a partial member at least of NATO, also a visit with the Pope on his most recent leg of that trip back at the White House safe and sound.
Now on to the case of Chandra Levy. What was a notorious missing persons case tonight is apparently a murder investigation, according to Washington, D.C. police. The move comes after a medical examiner said the former intern died through the acts of another person. But many key questions remain unanswered. We have two live reports. CNN's Rusty Dornin on a memorial today for Levy in her hometown of Modesto, California and CNN national correspondent Bob Franken with the latest on the investigation. We begin with Bob Franken who is outside D.C. police headquarters -- Bob. BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, the development was incremental. It was anticipated. Nevertheless, officials involved in the Chandra Levy matter are dealing with a new reality.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): Less than a week after the remains of Chandra Levy had been found, more than a year after she disappeared, the official announcement that her death was murder was hardly a surprise to investigators both for what the medical examiner concluded and what he could not.
ARDEN: In this case, there was not specific -- excuse me, sufficient evidence to ascertain conclusively the specific injury that caused her death. However, the circumstances of her disappearance and her body of recovery are indicative that she died through the acts of another person, which is the definition of a homicidal manner of death.
FRANKEN: Now that it's officially a criminal matter, the investigators are plotting new strategy.
CHIEF CHARLES RAMSEY, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: Right now, we have a lot of people that we want to interview or perhaps even re- interview. At this stage of the investigation, it's premature to start labeling people as suspects.
FRANKEN: Investigators are wrapping up the nearly weeklong sweep of the isolated section in Rock Creek Park where Chandra Levy's remains were recovered. Taking a last look for evidence but Adamantly refusing to discuss publicly what they found.
TERRANCE GAINER, ASSISTANT CHIEF, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: There are things that should be on a need to know basis. And the more the police can know or the prosecutors can know in the area of interview and interrogation, the more you can test the veracity of the person who is giving you that information.
FRANKEN: As always, the attorneys for the Levy family continued to keep the pressure on one of the main figures in this tragedy.
BILLY MARTIN, LEVY FAMILY ATTORNEY: We'd love to talk to Congressman Condit. And now, that this case has been classified as a homicide, I'm sure the police will go back and talk to every witness, including the Congressman.
FRANKEN: Police say they're still undecided whether they'll include Condit among their re-interviews. According to law enforcement sources, the California Congressman has admitted that he and Chandra Levy were lovers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: Police have never called Congressman Condit a suspect. They won't even say if they have any suspects. About the strongest assurance we got from Chief Ramsey is that the case will be solved, in his word, Miles, "eventually."
O'BRIEN: Bob, a couple of quick questions here. First of all, D.C. police indicated that they had searched very near to this area of Rock Creek Park. First of all, did they say they had actually covered that particular ground? Is it possible the body was put there after their search or has that even come into play?
FRANKEN: Well, they say that that is a possibility. But they also acknowledge that they did not search that area, that their procedures did not have them going down into the creek bed. That's caused quite a bit of criticism, as you know.
O'BRIEN: All right. Now, in a situation like this, forensically speaking here for just a moment, the evidence obviously is challenging, to say the least, but given the technology, and I'm thinking primarily about DNA technology here, do police have some optimism that they might be able to make a link between a suspect and Chandra Levy?
FRANKEN: Well, at this point, they're saying, yes, that might happen, but first they have to have a suspect to use as a comparison.
The other thing that's interesting, Miles, very briefly, is that they have brought in a forensic expert from the Smithsonian Institution here, Smithsonian, of course, would be the type of person would do research on things that might have been decades, eons ago. So this might be an expertise that's unique to Washington that could be helpful.
O'BRIEN: And just quickly, you've refreshed my memory. Did Mr. Condit produce any DNA samples at any point?
FRANKEN: Well, he's taken the -- he's given just about every kind of sample. The answer is yes, in a variety of ways. So certainly, that would be available, but again we have to be fair and say that the police are not calling him a suspect.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Bob Franken, thank you for that caveat. We appreciate it. Live from D.C. police headquarters.
Let's shift our attention to the other coast, to Modesto, California. Rusty Dornin there after an emotional ceremony today to remember Chandra Levy. More than a thousand people in attendance.
Rusty, there was sadness and a bit of anger there as well.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As always in any kind of a situation like this Miles. But we're at the Levy house where of course, tributes continue to arrive of flowers, and bouquets and friends also continue to visit
Now, this has been a very public tragedy and -- but the family really wanted to share remembrances of Chandra with this community, which have given them so much support. So 1,200 did gather to listen to remembrances of Chandra. Bob and Sue Levy, Chandra's parents and her brother Adam appeared in public for the very first time since they learned of Chandra's death last week.
Inside, the media was not allowed but other family members, her grandmother, her great aunt, they all spoke of Chandra as being this very strong willed, vivacious woman who was also very compassionate. And her brother Adam also stood up, in a very emotional speech, and talked about what it was like to be the little brother and that he felt like Chandra's energy was still around them and inspiring all of them.
After the 90-minute service, several people in the community gathered to hug one another and just share remembrances of Chandra. Also her uncle, Paul Katz, talked about what a tough journey it's been.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL KATZ, CHANDRA LEVY's UNCLE: Something like this reaches deep into our heart. It causes us to find that inner strength, to try to understand our purpose and to understand how important family is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: Now, Billy Martin, the family spokesperson, did talk about the fact that he told the family of the fact that it was declared a homicide investigation just a couple hours here before the service. He says that every time things come out about the investigation, it breaks their heart once again. But other family members say they are resolved that they want to find out the answers here. They want to find out who and why -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Rusty, you speak of that resolve. Is the family indicating one way or another whether they will hire private investigators to conduct their own investigation? Or are they concerned about hindering the events of homicide investigators in Washington?
DORNIN: Well, Billy Martin, in the press conference, right after the service made it very clear that he's still working very closely with the D.C. police, that he has an agreement with them, that he will not leak information about evidence, but they still do have two investigators that are working actively on this case and will continue to do so.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Rusty Dornin, a sad day in Modesto, California. Thank you very much for being with us on LIVE FROM.
Please tune in at the top of the hour for a lot more on the Chandra Levy case. Larry King will be talking to Levy's aunt, Linda Zansky, Levy family attorney, Billy Martin, who you just heard from briefly there and Congressman Gary Condit's attorney, Mark Geragos. That's tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE" 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
Now, an exclusive story that's going to be the source of a lot of conversation, we think. It concerns some of your children's heroes, the use of illegal steroid drugs and an American pastime. It's in the upcoming issue of "Sports Illustrated." We'll bring it to you before it hits the newsstands.
Former major league baseball star Ken Caminiti tells "Sports Illustrated" that he spent much of his last five years in the game on steroids. Caminiti says he started taking steroids in '96 to help play through shoulder pain. Steroids apparently made Caminiti a better player. He hit more home runs than he ever had before and went on to become the National League's Most Valuable Player.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN CAMINITI, FORMER BASEBALL PLAYER: I took a black market deal and it's the worst thing I did because I got the strength, whatever. I built the muscles up, you know. And I was -- that's what I was trying to do, anything to play and I knew I was tore up. So I said, OK, do it, you know, just hold it together, hold it together, hold it together. And I played that whole year, you know and I was MVP.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Caminiti says his steroid use was not the exception but rather the rule. He tells "Sports Illustrated" that "it's no secret what's going on in baseball. At least half the guys are using it. They talk about it. They joke about it with each other." Tom Verducci is the writer of the "Sports Illustrated" article. He spoke with CNN just a few hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM VERDUCCI, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": We're seeing pitchers turn to steroids. We're seeing guys who maybe play middle infield or outfield positions that are not traditional power positions using steroids. In fact, a minor league outfielder told me, "I'm using steroids. I'm not looking to get bigger. I'm not looking to hit home runs. But what it does is it quickens up my hands. In other words, I can swing the bat faster when I'm on steroids."
So now, we've gone beyond the realm of just power hitters and the big guys looking for mass and bulk. It's become so prevalent that up and down a roster at all different position, we're seeing steroid use.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: You can hear more from Tom Verducci on "NEWSNIGHT." He'll join Aaron Brown at 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time, 7:00 Pacific.
Major League Baseball does not currently tests its players for steroids so the number of users, difficult to pin down. Commissioner Bud Selig says, "The body building drugs are a problem and that something must be done, but any testing plan must be agreed to by the players union."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB MANFRED, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL: The commissioner's policy bans the use of steroids at the major league level. The problem is because testing for steroids is a mandatory topic of bargaining, we've never been able to get an agreement with the players association that would allow us to test and find out who is using steroids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Now, CNN has put out calls to the players union, but they've not yet responded. And we are back in a moment.
ANNOUNCER: One-on-one at the Vatican.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will tell him that I am concerned about the Catholic Church in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Next, the president and the Pope and what was said. Plus, from enemies to allies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: The man of the hour, Russian President Vladimir Putin. Russia takes a seat at NATO's table.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Also ahead, we'll go live to Oklahoma where divers search murky waters for those missing from the deadly bridge collapse.
And later, two countries armed with nuclear weapons may be on the edge of war. We'll go live to Islamabad and New Delhi when we continue. But first, time for the quick vote. What's the best way to stop steroid use in baseball, educate players on the dangers, mandatory testing with penalties, random testing with penalties or there's no need for change? To cast your ballot, head to CNN.com. The AOL keyword is CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Live picture now from Ground Zero, lower Manhattan. In the upper left portion of your screen is the last standing beam of the World Trade Center that was cut just a few moments ago by ironworkers. It is the last piece of that building some eight-and-a-half months after the 9/11 attacks. Some two million tons of debris have been removed during that time. Two thousand eight hundred and twenty-three people killed in the attack there at the World Trade Center, of those, remains of a 1,092 have been identified. A somber ceremony there at Ground Zero this evening.
In Washington, President Bush is back home at the White House. Within the last hour, he landed at Andrews Air Force Base. He returned to the South Lawn, as you see here, after his weeklong trip to Europe. It included stops in Berlin and Moscow where he signed a landmark arms reduction deal with Russia's President Vladimir Putin.
But the president's final stop included a visit with the Pope in the Vatican. There he raised the touchy sex scandal issue now rocking the Catholic Church. CNN's senior White House correspondent John King has more on the meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the president's second audience with Pope John Paul II. The circumstances very different than their first meeting 10 months ago.
BUSH: Thank you so much for receiving me.
KING: Now, the Catholic Church and the United States is embroiled in a sex abuse scandal. It is a delicate issue for the Vatican and the frail 82-year-old pope. And before the trip, top Bush advisers say the president would not raise it. But hours before, sitting across from the Pope in his Vatican study, Mr. Bush said it would come up.
BUSH: I will tell him that I am concerned about the Catholic Church in America. I am concerned about its standing. And I say that because the Catholic Church is an incredibly important institution in our country.
KING: Bush aides later confirm the sex abuse scandal was discussed. Courting the Catholic vote is a top priority of Mr. Bush and senior political adviser Karl Rove. And many U.S. Catholics are expressing displeasure with the church's handling of the crisis. The Vatican initially kept its distance, then, the Pope summoned U.S. cardinals for an urgent meeting last month and told them to adopt new guidelines for dealing with sex abuse by priests.
BUSH: I appreciate the Pope's leadership in trying to strengthen the Catholic Church in America.
KING: The president first met the Pope last July, two months before the September 11 attacks. U.S. officials say the Pontiff has voiced interest in visiting the United States and the site of the terrorist strike in New York City. And Mr. Bush says he is more than welcome.
POPE JOHN PAUL II: And I am very grateful for your visit.
BUSH: Thank you, Holy Father.
KING (on-camera): As Mr. Bush left the Vatican and headed home, the Pope's parting words were "God Bless America." But Vatican sources say there was a slight sense of unease that the president brought up a scandal the Vatican would prefer not to talk about.
John King, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Now before he left Rome, President Bush and his NATO partners welcomed Russia to the fold. Take a look at the map here. You'll see the NATO countries in yellow that predated today and in green, Russia, the former Soviet Socialist Republic. NATO, after all was formed to thwart its efforts, but now Russia is a junior member of NATO, a significant piece of history. CNN's Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty has more on this landmark move.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY (voice-over): The man of the hour Russian President Vladimir Putin. His seat at the table, payback for his support of the coalition against terrorism. "The world has changed," he says, "and so should NATO."
PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): A point of departure is a clear understanding that neither nuclear missile capabilities or the Cold War commitments can actually provide some kind of panacea from the current threats.
DOUGHERTY: As Mr. Putin knows well, Russia will have a full voice in NATO but only on certain issues, anti-terrorism, peacekeeping, crisis management, search and rescue, stopping the spread of weapons of mass destruction. But Moscow will not have a veto on the core military issues of the alliance.
In the hall, a sense of deja vu as Russia and NATO, for the second time in five years, pledge to work in partnership. This time, they say, it will be different.
BUSH: The attacks of September 11 made clear that the new dangers of our age threaten all nations, including Russia. The months since have made clear that by working together against these threats, we multiply our effectiveness.
DOUGHERTY: And NATO will continue to expand, in spite of Russian objection, bringing in new members that once were part of the old Soviet Union. But that, apparently, is no longer a sticking point.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Russia knows that these invitations will be extended at Prague and nonetheless Russia is here today.
DOUGHERTY: The real test for the new NATO, summed up by the secretary general.
GEORGE ROBERTSON, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: There are high expectations of all of us, expectations that this will not just be another glitzy protocol event, but a real breakthrough.
DOUGHERTY (on-camera): Both Russia and NATO say this is the beginning, not the end of a process. If it's to work, it will require new thinking, a new mentality on both sides if these two former foes are truly to become partners.
Jill Dougherty, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Next... (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The divers were able to mark a lot of the vehicles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Searching for bodies and answers in the collapse of a major bridge in Oklahoma. We'll go live to the scene when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The death toll is now 13 in this weekend's devastating bridge collapse in Oklahoma. That accident occurred where Interstate 40 crosses the Arkansas River in Webbers Falls. Recovery teams today used sonar to locate victims still believed to be trapped in the underwater wreckage, CNN's Jeff Flock joining us from near the scene. Hello, Jeff.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, near the scene and actually along one of the detour routes to that heavily traveled Interstate 40, perhaps you see off in the distance the sign for Interstate 40. This is one of the county roads, where traffic now being detoured and that situation's really improved, a lot less traffic out here today. I think people are just avoiding the scene altogether.
Now let's take you out to the ground zero, if you will, of the Monday bridge collapse. Rescue workers, I guess recovery workers is a better word, out there all day today. As you report, we're now at 13. Four additional victims pulled out of the water today, two additional vehicles. They still don't know exactly how many more are down there, still working on it.
Occasionally they can get divers in the water, but when the rain and the weather is bad, they got to pull them out, so a crane has been doing a lot of the work. That's the situation there.
And I want to also take this opportunity to let you hear what the divers are saying, what they're talking about, about how difficult it is down there, let them describe it in their own words now.
JOHNNY FAIRRES, DIVER, OKLAHOMA STATE POLICE: It's unbelievable how much rebar I've seen that is underneath that water. Getting to the vehicle, of course then we have to coordinate the cranes.
KEVIN GOLDSBY, DIVER, OKLAHOMA STATE POLICE: Zero visibility, first of all. You can't see anything you're doing. It's basically a real technical type diving situation where there is so much debris in the water.
DENNIS SPLAWN, DIVER, OKLAHOMA STATE POLICE: It's all touch and feel. There is no visibility. You put your hand in front of your face and you can't see it, but you feel. You feel and it is dangerous with all the twisted metal and the concrete. FLOCK: So difficult situation out there and that, of course, has made this thing kind of drag out, Miles. It's taken a long time and we still haven't got a final death toll yet, but hopefully by tomorrow, back to you.
O'BRIEN: It's just hard to imagine the task of those divers. They talk about it almost matter-of-factly, almost routine. What they do is amazing. Let's talk about the investigation for a moment. Last night, we were talking about the reports that the pilot of this vessel blacked out. Anything further on that and who might have been near him, near the wheel, any of that kind of thing?
FLOCK: Some of that has come out now. NTSB has interviewed all of the members of the crew. They say -- one of the members of the crew said that they saw him five minutes before the accident and he seemed completely normal. Everything was fine. So it does point to some sort of a seizure or some sort of a blackout. They have not yet, though, talked to him personally. They hope to do that first thing tomorrow morning.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Jeff Flock in Webbers Falls, Oklahoma, thank you very much.
FLOCK: Thanks, Miles.
O'BRIEN: We'll take a break. We'll be back with more in just a moment.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up, rising tensions and rising worries.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It would be bad. It would not be pretty.
ANNOUNCER: Will skirmishes along the India-Pakistan border turn into an all-out battle? The countries fought three wars over the last 50 years, but this time India and Pakistan are armed with nuclear weapons. We'll go live to Islamabad and New Delhi in a few minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back. Here's a quick look at our top stories this hour. The last standing vestige of the World Trade Center has just come down at this hour. Ground Zero workers demolished a 35-foot girder that survived when the Twin Towers collapsed on September 11th.
It had been a symbol of U.S. strength and resilience and will be the center of several ceremonies marking the end of the recovery effort, as you look at a live picture now of that 35-foot girder on its way away from Ground Zero.
Chandra Levy was the victim of murder but the exact cause of her death may never be known. That's the conclusion of the Washington, D.C. medical examiner who has completed his investigation of the former intern's remains.
He announced his conclusions on the same day a memorial service was held for Levy in Modesto, California. Levy's body was discovered last week in a D.C. park, more than a year after her disappearance.
The Pope and the president met today in private talks at the Vatican. In the 20-minute meeting, President Bush raised his concerns about the Roman Catholic sex scandal in the United States. His Vatican visit was the final stop of Mr. Bush's weeklong European tour.
Earlier, President Bush attended an historic meeting marking the creation of the NATO-Russia Council. The council creates a stronger link between the Kremlin and the NATO Alliance, originally formed to oppose Soviet expansion during the Cold War. The council is expected to establish policy on a range of issues, including counterterrorism.
The U.S. led war on terror is very different from conflicts of the past, but at times it sounds very familiar. CNN's Bruce Morton looks at war rhetoric then and now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Is the war on terror like the Cold War? Yes and no. The speeches are similar, evil lurks.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire -
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil arming to threaten the peace of the world.
MORTON: It's different, of course, because it isn't one super power against another. It's alike because during the Cold War, the U.S. allied itself with regimes, Joseph Mobutu in the Congo, the Shah of Iran, which it was hard to imagine as part of the free world, the same thing now, U.S. advisers or troops in Georgia, Yemen, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Pakistan, and the Philippines. All democracies? No way. Another similarity, it's easy to label anyone you don't like communist then, terrorist now.
ANATOL LIEVEN, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT: So many countries now, Israel, India, Russia are trying to say that the separatist struggles or national struggles that they're facing in various areas are terrorist struggles, and therefore, they don't need to talk to the other side. Therefore, all means are legitimate in fighting this alleged terrorist threat.
MORTON: In fact, of course, terror is a tactic not an ideology. The Israelis used it fighting for independence after World War II. The Irish Republican Army used it. We Americans should know.
LIEVEN: The IRA used it for several decades against the British and, of course, they were funded to a great extent by Irish Americans.
MORTON: Another similarity, communism failed to make its people either prosperous or free. That's true in much of the Muslim world as well. LIEVEN: No bit of the Muslim world today is really prospering or advancing very quickly, and very, very few bits are also democratic. Most of them are inefficient and backward autocracies.
MORTON (on camera): For years during the Cold War, the United States saw communism as a single monolithic block, while in fact the Soviets and the Chinese were drifting apart, Vietnam was resisting China, and so on. It even seems a tendency this time to lump Sunnah and Shiite, al Qaeda and Taliban, Iran and Iraq all together.
LIEVEN: Actually, these are all very different countries with very different agendas, and if we understand that, then there might be a possibility of something like Nixon and Kissinger's opening to China.
MORTON (voice over): And finally, one scary difference. The Cold War had nuclear super powers who knew they could blow up the planet and didn't. Now there are different small groups, one or two of which might just have one nuclear device and not mind using it here and now. Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
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O'BRIEN: Coming up on our program, as the minutes ticked away, lawyers made a last ditch effort to stop the execution this evening of a condemned man in Texas. We'll tell you how it ended. Plus, after six months at sea, the crew of the USS Stennis gets a warm welcome home, to say the least. The emotional reunion is also ahead.
LOU DOBBS, MONEYLINE ANCHOR: I'm Lou Dobbs with this "MONEYLINE" update. Investor concerns about consumer spending sent stock prices falling on Wall Street today. The Dow Jones Industrials fell 123 points. The NASDAQ fell more than nine points. Home Depot shares hurt by concerns that Home Depots new management could hurt sales by changing too fast. Watch "MONEYLINE" weeknights, 6:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN. CNN's LIVE FROM returns in just a moment.
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O'BRIEN: Time now to check our news alert. Live pictures from Los Angeles courtesy of our affiliate KCBS, you are looking at CBS Studio City in Los Angeles where we're told by police just a little while ago a man with a gun entered the building. No reports of any shots fired. No reports of injuries. Nonetheless, the place has been evacuated. Los Angeles police are on the scene and we are tracking the story as we speak.
A devastating Texas railroad accident kills one and injures three others. Authorities say two freight trains collided head-on in the panhandle this morning. About 25 cars derailed in all. Federal authorities are investigating.
After a series of failed appeals for clemency, Texas death row inmate Napoleon Beazley was executed about an hour ago by lethal injection. Beazley was condemned to death for killing the father of a Federal Court judge eight years ago. He was 17 at the time. Defense attorneys in the Michael Skakel murder trial rested their case today after hearing testimony from a Texas forensics expert. He estimated victim Martha Moxley's approximate time of death was 10:00 p.m. Skakel says he was visiting family at the same time. Skakel is accused of beating Moxley to death with a golf club in 1975. The prosecution will begin calling witnesses tomorrow.
Concerned with national security, a federal judge says he will not allow lawyers for Taliban-American John Walker Lindh to speak with al Qaeda or Taliban detainees in Cuba. Instead, military interrogators will conduct the interviews and then send the videotapes to the defense team. Walker Lindh's lawyers same some of the detainees fought with their client in Afghanistan.
Still ahead on our program, two nuclear powers, a lot of tension, has the line of control, as it is called, become a line in the sand? Pakistan and India, could war be inevitable? We'll take you live to Islamabad and New Delhi up next.
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ANNOUNCER: India and Pakistan have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947. Two of their wars were over Kashmir. Both nations claim the Himalayan Province as their own territory. Pakistan was carved out of India by Britain to create an Islamic nation. India and Pakistan joined the small club of nuclear- armed nations by testing their own nuclear weapons in 1998.
O'BRIEN: The Bush Administration is urging nuclear-armed India and Pakistan to resolve their latest conflict over Kashmir peacefully. So far, both sides appear to be ignoring that appeal, however.
Pakistan today carried out a third test of a missile capable of carrying a nuclear warhead. Afterwards, India called a speech by Pakistan's president yesterday disappointing and dangerous.
Now in that speech, President Pervez Musharraf hinted Pakistan might use nuclear weapons if war broke out. Both India and Pakistan claim control over Kashmir. Since gaining independence from Britain in 1947, India and Pakistan have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir.
Now according to an Indian Army spokesman, heavy artillery fire by Indian and Pakistani troops eased today for the first time in ten days. Both sides have massed some one million troops along the border. The Pentagon today expressed concern over the possibility of the conventional conflict erupting into a nuclear war.
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VICTORIA CLARKE, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: The concerns we have about what's going on between India and Pakistan are grave ones. The United States Government is working hard in conversations and consultations with both countries to try to ease and deescalate the conflict. Any time you have two nations who continue to have the problems they're having, two nuclear-armed nations, we of course have great concern.
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O'BRIEN: For the latest developments on the India-Pakistan conflict, we're going to go live to our New Delhi, India Bureau Chief Satinder Bindra and CNN's Tom Mintier who is in the Pakistani capitol of Islamabad. Let's begin with Tom. Tom, why is this happening just now? This is, after all, a rather long-running conflict.
TOM MINTIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a long-running conflict, Miles, but when you go back to December and the attack on Parliament in New Delhi, that's when the tensions really started to escalate and have reached a fever pitch right now.
It didn't help much, the last missile test, the ballistic missile test; a missile capable of carrying a nuclear weapon was test-fired by Pakistan on Tuesday. This was the third in a series. They started on Saturday, fired a second on Sunday, Monday took a day off, and then on Tuesday morning, just hours after British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw arrived, they fired their last one.
After that missile was fired, they said their testing program had been completed and that there would be no more launches. This missile traveled just over 100 miles.
So Jack Straw was in town briefly, the British Foreign Secretary. He did meet his counterpart, the Pakistani Foreign Minister Abdul Sattar in a rather lengthy meeting, and then he went into a meeting with the Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf. That meeting also went longer than expected.
When Mr. Straw came out, he wouldn't really discuss many of the details, but he did say, rather pointedly, that the Mr. Musharraf knows what he needs to do in addition to what he has already done. He said he did not hear his speech or see it, but was able to read it once he landed here in Islamabad. He said he was in flight when the speech was delivered, but he did read the transcript of it before his meeting with the Pakistani president.
He has now gone off to New Delhi. He did deny that he was carrying any message. He says, "I am not a messenger. I will not have a message from Mr. Musharraf to take to Mr. Vajpayee, but clearly he is taking a message from the world community to back off and ease the tensions here.
The Pakistani president in his speech the other night urged the world community to put pressure on India to move its troops back from the border, something that they so far say they will not do. Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Tom Mintier joining us from Pakistan. Let's go across the border into India, to New Delhi and Satinder Bindra. Satinder, when last we focused on this particular conflict in great earnest in 1998, we talked about those tit-for-tat nuclear tests. Is there much talk that India might respond by conducting some sort of test of its own? SATINDER BINDRA, CNN NEW DELHI BUREAU CHIEF: Clearly so far, India says it's not going to respond with any missile tests and also India saying that it will not use nuclear weapons first. It will only use nuclear weapons if someone uses nuclear weapons against them first.
Now, Miles, in such a tense atmosphere, where people are talking of war and nuclear weapons clearly diplomacy is in top gear. Tom mentioned a visit to Islamabad of the British Foreign Secretary, Mr. Jack Straw. Mr. Jack Straw arrived in New Delhi last night. Now in a few hours, he'll be meeting with India's top leadership.
The Indian leadership has been very interested in what Mr. Straw said in Pakistan yesterday, that "cross-border terrorism must stop." Mr. Straw also categorized those fighters who infiltrate from the Pakistani side of Kashmir onto the Indian side as "terrorists." Pakistan describes them, Miles, as "freedom fighters."
Now also yesterday, the Indian Foreign Minister, Mr. Jaswant Singh, angrily denounced a speech made by the Pakistani President General Pervez Musharraf two days ago.
In this speech, General Musharraf said he did not want war with India, but the Indian side says the speech was both "disappointing and dangerous," disappointing because India says the speech did not announce any new measures to combat what New Delhi calls cross-border terrorism. New Delhi also says the speech was dangerous because of the Pakistani president's "very bellicose remarks."
Now on the Indian-Pakistan border, still there is a lot of firing and shelling from both sides. Thousands have been displaced in this fighting and dozens on both sides have been killed. But after the Pakistani president's speech two days ago, one sign that this fighting and this shelling is now deescalating, perhaps just a bit, Miles, back to you.
O'BRIEN: OK, good note to leave it on, CNN's Satinder Bindra in New Delhi for us this evening.
Back now to some live pictures we've been watching all throughout the newscast, live pictures from Ground Zero. Watching from afar, a very somber ceremony as the last standing piece of what was the World Trade Centers was cut down by ironworkers, placed on a flatbed trailer and just a few moments ago, draped in Old Glory.
It's just one of a series of ceremonies we'll be seeing over the next few days commemorating the end of the effort to clear up some two million tons of rubble. Just to remind you 2,823 people were killed in the attack of the World Trade Center. The remains of a little more than a thousand have been identified. We'll be back in just a bit.
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O'BRIEN: Well, talk about a sight for sore eyes. It was a sight thousands of families had been waiting to see for six months. The aircraft carrier John C. Stennis returned to the North Island Naval Air Station near San Diego today, after completing its tour of duty in Operation Enduring Freedom.
The 5,500 crewmembers received an emotional welcome, to say the least. Sixty of them became fathers since the Stennis left port in November. For much more on the Stennis and its just completed mission in the war on terror, check out our website cnn.com. Don't forget to tune in this weekend when Frank Buckley presents a special report on the Stennis. It is called "Carrier at War." That's Saturday evening, 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific, and again Sunday, 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
And that's our report for tonight. I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us.
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