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U.N. Officials Meet with Iraqis
Aired September 30, 2002 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour with the details with bringing U.N. weapons inspectors back to Iraq after four years on the sidelines. Some details are big, such as where the inspectors can go, and some are relatively small, such as where they will sleep.
CNN's Christiane Amanpour is live from the meeting in the site in Vienna. How did the first day go -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, all of those issues that you mentioned and everything in between was laid out on the table today. This was not a negotiating session, according to the U.N. weapons inspectors. Rather, it was them laying down all the requirements that need to be agreed to, crucial agreements that need to be made, before any weapons inspectors will be sent back to Iraq. The U.N. saying that it will not even contemplate sending any of them back, unless they have full agreement from the Iraqis on all the practical arrangements needed for them to operate.
Now, by the end of the day, we got a briefing from the head of the IAEA here, which is the International Atomic Energy Agency, and it is hosting these talks. It is the nuclear watchdog body that oversees nuclear disarmament in Iraq. The head of that agency telling us that Iraq, they felt, the delegation today, showed a positive and businesslike attitude, and that they feel here that the Iraqis have come to these talks with the intention of going away with an agreement.
To that end, they said that a lot of the issues had been resolved. Some of them were still outstanding, and that they would continue discussing them tomorrow. For instance, the issue of overflights. U.N. weapons inspectors want to be able to fly over Iraq, to be able to do reconnaissance, as well as their on-site inspections. This, again, will be taken up tomorrow.
They also say that Iraq will, tomorrow, make an important declaration, will give to the U.N. here a backlog of accumulated reports regarding their dual-use facilities. Now, these are facilities, equipment, and materiel in Iraq that are generally used for civilian purposes, but that can be used for military purposes and, it's feared, can be used to manufacture and produce weapons of mass destruction.
The Iraqis are planning to hand all that equipment -- or, rather, all that information -- documents and CDs -- over to the U.N. here in their talks tomorrow.
As we know, these talks have been taking place -- these technical talks -- against a political backdrop in the United States and other capitals around the world. The U.S. particularly wanting a new, tougher resolution in order to essentially toughen up and change the rules of the inspections game.
But the Iraqis are saying that they still will offer unfettered and unconditional access to the weapons inspectors, and none of these political maneuverings, according to the U.N. here, have been brought up in their discussions with the Iraqis.
They also have not mentioned the issue of presidential sites. That, they are telling us, is for the Security Council to decide. But senior diplomats here are saying that pending agreement tomorrow, by the end of tomorrow, the end of the session here, that they expect to be able to send weapons inspectors back by mid-October -- back to you.
PHILLIPS: Christiane, what about the safety of inspectors? Is that a concern at all?
AMANPOUR: Well, that, of course, they have discussed as well with their Iraqi delegation here, and that they say they have been making good progress on that. We asked senior officials here about some of the published reports that have been circulating about this U.S. draft resolution. For instance, in that resolution, according to published reports, the resolution calls for an international protection force to go with the inspectors.
The diplomats here telling us that they don't think that that is necessary, and that they don't think would be conducive to the kinds of inspections they want to make. But what we are being told is that the inspectors here, the people in charge of disarming Iraq, do want to get, as much of what they call the concept of any place, any time, as much of the unfettered access back on the agenda as they possibly can.
PHILLIPS: Christiane Amanpour in Vienna.
Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska says today regime change in Iraq should be part of a comprehensive plan for U.S. policy in the Middle East, and Hagel said it will not be easy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: Regime change in Iraq should not be considered as either a military cakewalk, or nation building on the cheap. We must plan for and think through. The day-after scenarios, the costs, and the commitments to rebuilding Iraq's political culture and economy.
Iraq is rich in human and natural resources, but a democratic transition will require a strong U.S. political, economic, and military presence in engagement for the months and years after Saddam's removal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Senator Chuck Hagel talks with Judy Woodruff this afternoon on "INSIDE POLITICS." That is at 4:00 Eastern, 1:00 Pacific right here on CNN.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld lashed out at Iraq today for continuing to fire U.S. and British warplanes patrolling the no-fly zones, and the Defense Department released video showing those attacks.
CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon -- Barbara, we were all a bit surprised that we got to see this previously classified videotape.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Kyra. You could say Don Rumsfeld's news briefing today was a rather vigorous one by the defense secretary, and General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Indeed, they began by showing what they said was evidence of Iraq's increased firings at U.S. and coalition pilots in both the northern no-fly zone and the southern no-fly zone over Iraq.
For the first time in several years, in fact, they showed the news media what had been previously classified video of Iraq. Here, you see the first one firing at U.S. and coalition pilots. This video from an F-16. You will see muzzle flashes there. That is, according to the Pentagon, Iraqi anti-aircraft artillery fire, firing at an F- 16.
Here -- this one is extremely interesting, from a Predator unmanned drone in the southern no-fly. You see that SA-3 missile launcher swinging around, looking for an aircraft to launch on to, and there you see it firing its missile up in the sky, presumably at a U.S. or coalition aircraft.
The defense secretary made very clear he is very angry at Iraq for these continued firings. He said Iraq is the only place in the world where U.S. and coalition pilots are fired upon on a regular basis. Here is what he had to say just a little while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: With each missile launched at our aircrews, Iraq expresses its contempt for the U.N. resolutions. A fact that must be kept in mind, as their latest inspection offers are evaluated. That offer has already been subject to Iraqi revisionism, three days after September 16 letter was delivered, promising to accept inspectors -- quote -- "without condition" -- unquote, Iraqi's (ph) foreign minister gave a speech to the U.N. in which he placed conditions on any future inspections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Now, the secretary said since that September 16 letter to the United Nations, in fact, Iraq has stepped up its provocations against U.S. pilots, but so far this year-to-date, there have been 206 -- what the Pentagon calls "provocations" by the Iraqis, 34 responses by U.S. and coalition warplanes.
The secretary was asked why the coalition warplanes have not responded more often, it is about a 10-to-1 ratio at this point of Iraqi provocations and responses. Both the secretary and General Myers said it was very difficult to target where the Iraqis are firing from, hard to find them, they move around a lot, they are very mobile, and it is very difficult for the U.S. and coalition planes to inflict enough damage on the Iraqis to make them stop doing this, but the secretary ended his press briefing with what he described himself as being angry. He said there was a lot of anger that he had about why the news media is so skeptical of potential Bush administration political motivations for releasing this kind of information for the first time in so long, and not skeptical enough about the Iraqi regime -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, sort of ironic, too, Barbara. Earlier today, you were talking about psych-ops and what the U.S. military is doing to try and convince military overseas there in Iraq, to not support Saddam Hussein.
STARR: Well, it is becoming very clear -- this is one of the key underpinnings of U.S. military strategy in Iraq right now.
For the first time, unlike Desert Storm, to try and make the Iraqi military -- shall we say, a friend of the allies, a friend of the coalition, the rank-and-file and even reach into the officer ranks, persuade the Iraqi military that they have no chance of succeeding with Saddam Hussein. That their only chance lies with possibly defecting, supporting the coalition, supporting some sort of regime change in Iraq.
The message that the U.S. is sending to the Iraqi military is, if you side with us, there may be a role for you in a post-Saddam Iraq, but if you side with Saddam, then all bets are off -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you.
Three American congressmen are in Baghdad, talking with Iraqi officials about U.N. inspections, U.N. sanctions, and efforts to avert a war.
Our Baghdad Bureau Chief, Jane Arraf, joins us with more -- hi, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Kyra. Well, those congressmen, as we speak, are on their way out of Baghdad after spending four days touring hospitals, water treatment plants, and talking to Iraqi officials.
Now, they have taken a lot of heat for this trip, but Representative David Bonior from Michigan said with all the talk of what would be best for Iraqi civilians and the suffering that they have endured for the past 10 years, the only thing to do was actually come here, and see it for themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAVID BONIOR (D), MICHIGAN: Well, you know, you can read numbers, 50,000 a year, half a million children that died prematurely as a result of this, but until you see someone in a hospital bed, 10, 12 years of age dying of leukemia, and you know they are going to die, or you see children who have been radiated with depleted Uranium, it really, really comes home, and strikes home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARRAF: The other thing they say they have kept hammering home is that Iraq has to admit these weapons inspectors unconditionally, that the time is over for talk, there is no time for debate, there is no time to discuss who is right or wrong, and they say they feel that message is beginning to sink in to the Iraqi leadership -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now Jane, we saw the video of these hospitals. In the past, has Saddam Hussein been accused of hiding his weapons and weapons of mass destruction under places such as these hospitals?
ARRAF: Well, there have been an awful lot of accusations in the more than 10 years since these weapons inspections have been going on, but Iraq now says, as we know, that they don't have any weapons of mass destruction, and that is why they are inviting the inspectors back in.
The reason that the congressmen were touring the hospitals was on a purely medical basis. One of them, in fact, is a physician, a child psychiatrist, and they wanted to see if in fact it was as bad as the Iraqi government says, whether there are medicines available, whether people can afford them, exactly what the situation is.
They didn't come as weapons inspectors, and unless you actually a specialized weapons inspector, it would be really difficult to know what the situation actually is on the ground. But as I said, a lot of accusations, which Iraq is hoping to counter and refute by finally letting them back in after four years -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Baghdad Bureau Chief Jane Arraf. Thanks, Jane.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 30, 2002 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We begin this hour with the details with bringing U.N. weapons inspectors back to Iraq after four years on the sidelines. Some details are big, such as where the inspectors can go, and some are relatively small, such as where they will sleep.
CNN's Christiane Amanpour is live from the meeting in the site in Vienna. How did the first day go -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, all of those issues that you mentioned and everything in between was laid out on the table today. This was not a negotiating session, according to the U.N. weapons inspectors. Rather, it was them laying down all the requirements that need to be agreed to, crucial agreements that need to be made, before any weapons inspectors will be sent back to Iraq. The U.N. saying that it will not even contemplate sending any of them back, unless they have full agreement from the Iraqis on all the practical arrangements needed for them to operate.
Now, by the end of the day, we got a briefing from the head of the IAEA here, which is the International Atomic Energy Agency, and it is hosting these talks. It is the nuclear watchdog body that oversees nuclear disarmament in Iraq. The head of that agency telling us that Iraq, they felt, the delegation today, showed a positive and businesslike attitude, and that they feel here that the Iraqis have come to these talks with the intention of going away with an agreement.
To that end, they said that a lot of the issues had been resolved. Some of them were still outstanding, and that they would continue discussing them tomorrow. For instance, the issue of overflights. U.N. weapons inspectors want to be able to fly over Iraq, to be able to do reconnaissance, as well as their on-site inspections. This, again, will be taken up tomorrow.
They also say that Iraq will, tomorrow, make an important declaration, will give to the U.N. here a backlog of accumulated reports regarding their dual-use facilities. Now, these are facilities, equipment, and materiel in Iraq that are generally used for civilian purposes, but that can be used for military purposes and, it's feared, can be used to manufacture and produce weapons of mass destruction.
The Iraqis are planning to hand all that equipment -- or, rather, all that information -- documents and CDs -- over to the U.N. here in their talks tomorrow.
As we know, these talks have been taking place -- these technical talks -- against a political backdrop in the United States and other capitals around the world. The U.S. particularly wanting a new, tougher resolution in order to essentially toughen up and change the rules of the inspections game.
But the Iraqis are saying that they still will offer unfettered and unconditional access to the weapons inspectors, and none of these political maneuverings, according to the U.N. here, have been brought up in their discussions with the Iraqis.
They also have not mentioned the issue of presidential sites. That, they are telling us, is for the Security Council to decide. But senior diplomats here are saying that pending agreement tomorrow, by the end of tomorrow, the end of the session here, that they expect to be able to send weapons inspectors back by mid-October -- back to you.
PHILLIPS: Christiane, what about the safety of inspectors? Is that a concern at all?
AMANPOUR: Well, that, of course, they have discussed as well with their Iraqi delegation here, and that they say they have been making good progress on that. We asked senior officials here about some of the published reports that have been circulating about this U.S. draft resolution. For instance, in that resolution, according to published reports, the resolution calls for an international protection force to go with the inspectors.
The diplomats here telling us that they don't think that that is necessary, and that they don't think would be conducive to the kinds of inspections they want to make. But what we are being told is that the inspectors here, the people in charge of disarming Iraq, do want to get, as much of what they call the concept of any place, any time, as much of the unfettered access back on the agenda as they possibly can.
PHILLIPS: Christiane Amanpour in Vienna.
Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska says today regime change in Iraq should be part of a comprehensive plan for U.S. policy in the Middle East, and Hagel said it will not be easy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: Regime change in Iraq should not be considered as either a military cakewalk, or nation building on the cheap. We must plan for and think through. The day-after scenarios, the costs, and the commitments to rebuilding Iraq's political culture and economy.
Iraq is rich in human and natural resources, but a democratic transition will require a strong U.S. political, economic, and military presence in engagement for the months and years after Saddam's removal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Senator Chuck Hagel talks with Judy Woodruff this afternoon on "INSIDE POLITICS." That is at 4:00 Eastern, 1:00 Pacific right here on CNN.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld lashed out at Iraq today for continuing to fire U.S. and British warplanes patrolling the no-fly zones, and the Defense Department released video showing those attacks.
CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon -- Barbara, we were all a bit surprised that we got to see this previously classified videotape.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Kyra. You could say Don Rumsfeld's news briefing today was a rather vigorous one by the defense secretary, and General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Indeed, they began by showing what they said was evidence of Iraq's increased firings at U.S. and coalition pilots in both the northern no-fly zone and the southern no-fly zone over Iraq.
For the first time in several years, in fact, they showed the news media what had been previously classified video of Iraq. Here, you see the first one firing at U.S. and coalition pilots. This video from an F-16. You will see muzzle flashes there. That is, according to the Pentagon, Iraqi anti-aircraft artillery fire, firing at an F- 16.
Here -- this one is extremely interesting, from a Predator unmanned drone in the southern no-fly. You see that SA-3 missile launcher swinging around, looking for an aircraft to launch on to, and there you see it firing its missile up in the sky, presumably at a U.S. or coalition aircraft.
The defense secretary made very clear he is very angry at Iraq for these continued firings. He said Iraq is the only place in the world where U.S. and coalition pilots are fired upon on a regular basis. Here is what he had to say just a little while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: With each missile launched at our aircrews, Iraq expresses its contempt for the U.N. resolutions. A fact that must be kept in mind, as their latest inspection offers are evaluated. That offer has already been subject to Iraqi revisionism, three days after September 16 letter was delivered, promising to accept inspectors -- quote -- "without condition" -- unquote, Iraqi's (ph) foreign minister gave a speech to the U.N. in which he placed conditions on any future inspections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Now, the secretary said since that September 16 letter to the United Nations, in fact, Iraq has stepped up its provocations against U.S. pilots, but so far this year-to-date, there have been 206 -- what the Pentagon calls "provocations" by the Iraqis, 34 responses by U.S. and coalition warplanes.
The secretary was asked why the coalition warplanes have not responded more often, it is about a 10-to-1 ratio at this point of Iraqi provocations and responses. Both the secretary and General Myers said it was very difficult to target where the Iraqis are firing from, hard to find them, they move around a lot, they are very mobile, and it is very difficult for the U.S. and coalition planes to inflict enough damage on the Iraqis to make them stop doing this, but the secretary ended his press briefing with what he described himself as being angry. He said there was a lot of anger that he had about why the news media is so skeptical of potential Bush administration political motivations for releasing this kind of information for the first time in so long, and not skeptical enough about the Iraqi regime -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, sort of ironic, too, Barbara. Earlier today, you were talking about psych-ops and what the U.S. military is doing to try and convince military overseas there in Iraq, to not support Saddam Hussein.
STARR: Well, it is becoming very clear -- this is one of the key underpinnings of U.S. military strategy in Iraq right now.
For the first time, unlike Desert Storm, to try and make the Iraqi military -- shall we say, a friend of the allies, a friend of the coalition, the rank-and-file and even reach into the officer ranks, persuade the Iraqi military that they have no chance of succeeding with Saddam Hussein. That their only chance lies with possibly defecting, supporting the coalition, supporting some sort of regime change in Iraq.
The message that the U.S. is sending to the Iraqi military is, if you side with us, there may be a role for you in a post-Saddam Iraq, but if you side with Saddam, then all bets are off -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Thank you.
Three American congressmen are in Baghdad, talking with Iraqi officials about U.N. inspections, U.N. sanctions, and efforts to avert a war.
Our Baghdad Bureau Chief, Jane Arraf, joins us with more -- hi, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Hi, Kyra. Well, those congressmen, as we speak, are on their way out of Baghdad after spending four days touring hospitals, water treatment plants, and talking to Iraqi officials.
Now, they have taken a lot of heat for this trip, but Representative David Bonior from Michigan said with all the talk of what would be best for Iraqi civilians and the suffering that they have endured for the past 10 years, the only thing to do was actually come here, and see it for themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAVID BONIOR (D), MICHIGAN: Well, you know, you can read numbers, 50,000 a year, half a million children that died prematurely as a result of this, but until you see someone in a hospital bed, 10, 12 years of age dying of leukemia, and you know they are going to die, or you see children who have been radiated with depleted Uranium, it really, really comes home, and strikes home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARRAF: The other thing they say they have kept hammering home is that Iraq has to admit these weapons inspectors unconditionally, that the time is over for talk, there is no time for debate, there is no time to discuss who is right or wrong, and they say they feel that message is beginning to sink in to the Iraqi leadership -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now Jane, we saw the video of these hospitals. In the past, has Saddam Hussein been accused of hiding his weapons and weapons of mass destruction under places such as these hospitals?
ARRAF: Well, there have been an awful lot of accusations in the more than 10 years since these weapons inspections have been going on, but Iraq now says, as we know, that they don't have any weapons of mass destruction, and that is why they are inviting the inspectors back in.
The reason that the congressmen were touring the hospitals was on a purely medical basis. One of them, in fact, is a physician, a child psychiatrist, and they wanted to see if in fact it was as bad as the Iraqi government says, whether there are medicines available, whether people can afford them, exactly what the situation is.
They didn't come as weapons inspectors, and unless you actually a specialized weapons inspector, it would be really difficult to know what the situation actually is on the ground. But as I said, a lot of accusations, which Iraq is hoping to counter and refute by finally letting them back in after four years -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Baghdad Bureau Chief Jane Arraf. Thanks, Jane.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
