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Criminal Profiler Discusses Search for Killer Sniper
Aired October 10, 2002 - 13:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Another shooting at another gas station, this time near Manassas, Virginia, just southwest nation's Capital.
CNN's Patty Davis is standing by nearby Woodbridge to give us the latest from there.
Hi -- Patty.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
Police are still combing the area around that Sunoco gas station in Manassas, Virginia, looking for evidence. That is where a 53-year- old Gaithersburg man was murdered last night just as he had finished pumping gas, putting gas in his Mazda. Police say they still do not know if that murder is the work of the sniper who has shot eight people so far.
Now, a witness say they heard just one gunshot, that witness in a Shoney's next door to that gas station. Other witnesses saw a white van leaving the scene. But police say that no one was able to get a license plate number or even a partial license plate number. That is certainly hurting the efforts to find whoever murdered this man last night.
Now, major resources being spent to solve this crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAROLD SCOTT, ATF: We've had agents and officers from that Montgomery County task force literally forced to go home and get some rest by their supervisors, they are so determined to solve this case that they have volunteered, they've worked double shifts, they've done whatever has been asked of them. And it's really no turning them back; they are very determined to solve this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Virginia State Police say that immediately after they got word of this murder at the gas station, they dispatched police cars to block off Route 66, which is wear the witness said they saw white van -- had block off the ramps. Also, they pulled over, they say, many white vans. This is supposedly a white panel van, which means there are windows only at the driver's seat and passenger seat in the front seat.
Now an autopsy scheduled to be performed today on that victim, that should help police determine if this is connected to those sniper killings or not. We're expected to hear from police about 1:30, so in about 25 minutes from now. Hopefully, they'll have more word for us -- Kyra
PHILLIPS: Now, Patty, this isn't the first time the shooting has gone down at a gas station. Have you heard anything about any type of warning to people that may be thinking about getting gas, maybe to hold off. Is word out to these gas station owners that maybe they should close shop for the time being?
DAVIS: Well, I'm sure a lot of gas station owners are worried, as are grocery store owners and other places where they've had these shootings take place. But as far as I know, no, the authorities are telling people go about your business as usual, try to be as normal as possible -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Patty Davis, thank you so much for the latest from there.
The sniper's 13-year-old victim continues to fight for his life as community of Bowie, Maryland, is still fighting fear.
CNN's Serena Altschul went to Bowie to see how people are coping.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't feel safe ever, except for when I'm in my house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just literally duck under my window.
SERENA ALTSCHUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ... aren't taking any chances.
(on camera): Do you always come to pick up your kids...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Let's continue on this story and talk about who is this sniper and when will he be caught? Let's go to Washington and criminal profiler Pat Brown. She's CEO and founder of the sexual homicide exchange, which offers assistance to law officials.
Pat, thanks for being with us.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Good morning.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about the fact that the shooter is enlarging his range here. Does that concern you?
BROWN: Yes. One of the most interesting things this guy is doing is he's going from county to county to county now. And it's hard to say exactly why. He may just be wanting to spread law enforcement thin, maybe wanting to say I can hit anywhere and anyplace, and you can't stop me. He may be looking for places where law enforcement hasn't focused on yet so he can slide in and commit a crime and get away with it.
PHILLIPS: So from an investigator's perspective, I guess there could be advantages also, right, to varying locations and varying times?
BROWN: It's very helpful, especially for the public. This is something the police really want to push to the public: If this guy is in all these places, he has to be not someplace else. So the public can be looking for that weird guy that has the gun who has been missing at all these different occasions.
PHILLIPS: For me, I thought maybe the more police involved the better. But you have a different approach on this.
BROWN: Well, I don't know I have I different approach on it, but each police department likes to work on their own case. And what happens is that as there are more and more case and more and more involvement and the FBI comes in and the ATF comes in, you've got the problem that everybody is kind of vying for I'll take care of this and you take care of that. And then there's the problem with the tips coming in and so many people handling the tips that things might get lost or confused in all of that. I don't know they can solve that problem, but it's just one of the things that happens when you have such a large investigation.
We talk about the break down among intelligence agencies all of the time, don't we? Look at pre-9/11: There's another example.
But back to this case, let's talk about what is happening here that may be throwing off healthy tips. Are you concerned about the fact that the description of the car keeps changing?
BROWN: Well, there is always a problem with descriptions of cars. It's happened in many cases. What will happen is a witness will see a car leave an area, and they will say -- rightly so -- they'll give the tip to the police, they'll say, I saw this vehicle leaving. The problem is the police have to be very careful to let public know that they do not know if this has anything to do with the crime. In other words, we want information on this white truck or we want information on this white van because this person may be involved in crime or they may just be a witness. They may just be a person who heard a gunshot and wants to get the heck out of there as quick as they can.
So you want tips from everybody coming in. So in other words, if you know a weird guy but he doesn't own a white vehicle, you may not call this tip in -- you may say he didn't have the vehicle.
So please, everybody out there: Call the tips in an anybody, regardless of the color of the vehicle that they own.
PHILLIPS: There has been a lot of talk too whether this is a serial killer, a mass murderer, a thrill sicker. You said last night on "CONNIE CHUNG," I heard you say, Nope, I believe this is a serial killer. Do you still believe that, and why? BROWN: Absolutely. What happens is it started out looking like a spree killer. It may be somebody who just lost his mind at a certain point, got angry at something, went over the edge, and he went and started committing these crimes. A spree killer will usually do them very quickly, he'll move in a direction, and then he'll usually get caught. A serial killer has down time, where he can think about his next crime; he has his emotional down time: He's done it, he enjoys it, he relaxes, he comes back and does it again.
This guy is now doing that one at a time; he's doing it very carefully. It may be also that that earlier crime, the earlier shooting that we don't yet whether it was connected may have been his first and he may have been unhappy with the publicity he got, because I never heard about that crime. So he may have been unhappy as well and said, Next time I'll do a bunch of people, then they'll notice me, then I'll keep playing my game. Yes, this is a serial killer.
PHILLIPS: Let's have you play geographic profiler here for a moment and let's look at the area. Do you think this guy -- I guess we don't know if it's a guy or woman, right? -- this individual, does this person live in the area?
BROWN: I would think this person knows this area very, very well. A spree killer, as I say, is usually directional, and he may go through an area just shooting people, anybody who he can find as he is moving along and doesn't really know the area at all. But this guy, his original spot was up in Montgomery County, and he criss-crossed a lot across Georgia Avenue that one corridor. My guess is he has a lot of familiarity with that area: He may live there, he may work there, he may have a friend there, a relative there, spending a great deal of time there.
At that point, he's branched out. He knows where his lines are, into the next county; he's crossed into D.C. Then he went south: Was he trying to get police look a different direction? Was he fleeing at that time and then changed his mind? We don't know. But he came back, went to P.G. county. Now he's down in Prince William County, and he's jumping from county to county. So he knows his way around. So we do want to look for a person who is pretty darn comfortable on the road.
PHILLIPS: So is there a freeway that is of interest to you when you look at the geographics here?
BROWN: Not particularly. I think he knows his escape routes.
PHILLIPS: Now the Tarot card. Is this a prank, or is this a very important piece of evidence here?
BROWN: It's hard to know. Unless it's been absolutely connected to the crime, we don't know. But I would err on the side of caution here and I would say to the police saying to the public -- and I think they should show the card, front, back and the writing; they should say to the public, We do not know if this card is connected to crime, but if it is, it's a very valuable piece of information -- if you know anybody who has this deck of cards in their possession, anyone has bought this deck of cards, anyone who you have given your deck of cards to, anyone who has this writing, please call the police. They should show this to everyone and get these people to call the tips in.
PHILLIPS: The fact that the Tarot card only showed up one time: any significance?
BROWN: Not really, because sometimes these guys as they're playing their game just come up with a new idea: This would be a cool thing to do. And this will more fun, and maybe I'll get more attention if do I this. It's just part of his game.
PHILLIPS: Pat, finally, you're a mom. You live in this area. Are you concerned?
BROWN: Correct. Absolutely. I have children in this area. They go to school here, and I have the same problem everybody else does. When they walk out of the house, they drive out of the house, I think, they have to go to the gas station, they have to go to school, what do I tell them. And I tell them what I'll tell everybody: There's not much you can do. There are a million ways to die, essentially. You could be in a car wreck, you could be hit by a drunk driver. You could get cancer tomorrow. You have to continue with life. Just do it as safely as you can, keep your eyes out, and please get those tips into the police so we can stop this guy.
PHILLIPS: Pat Brown, criminal profiler, great insight. Thanks so much, Pat.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR Use Our Secure Online Order Form Located At Www.Fdch.Com
Aired October 10, 2002 - 13:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Another shooting at another gas station, this time near Manassas, Virginia, just southwest nation's Capital.
CNN's Patty Davis is standing by nearby Woodbridge to give us the latest from there.
Hi -- Patty.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.
Police are still combing the area around that Sunoco gas station in Manassas, Virginia, looking for evidence. That is where a 53-year- old Gaithersburg man was murdered last night just as he had finished pumping gas, putting gas in his Mazda. Police say they still do not know if that murder is the work of the sniper who has shot eight people so far.
Now, a witness say they heard just one gunshot, that witness in a Shoney's next door to that gas station. Other witnesses saw a white van leaving the scene. But police say that no one was able to get a license plate number or even a partial license plate number. That is certainly hurting the efforts to find whoever murdered this man last night.
Now, major resources being spent to solve this crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAROLD SCOTT, ATF: We've had agents and officers from that Montgomery County task force literally forced to go home and get some rest by their supervisors, they are so determined to solve this case that they have volunteered, they've worked double shifts, they've done whatever has been asked of them. And it's really no turning them back; they are very determined to solve this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: Virginia State Police say that immediately after they got word of this murder at the gas station, they dispatched police cars to block off Route 66, which is wear the witness said they saw white van -- had block off the ramps. Also, they pulled over, they say, many white vans. This is supposedly a white panel van, which means there are windows only at the driver's seat and passenger seat in the front seat.
Now an autopsy scheduled to be performed today on that victim, that should help police determine if this is connected to those sniper killings or not. We're expected to hear from police about 1:30, so in about 25 minutes from now. Hopefully, they'll have more word for us -- Kyra
PHILLIPS: Now, Patty, this isn't the first time the shooting has gone down at a gas station. Have you heard anything about any type of warning to people that may be thinking about getting gas, maybe to hold off. Is word out to these gas station owners that maybe they should close shop for the time being?
DAVIS: Well, I'm sure a lot of gas station owners are worried, as are grocery store owners and other places where they've had these shootings take place. But as far as I know, no, the authorities are telling people go about your business as usual, try to be as normal as possible -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Patty Davis, thank you so much for the latest from there.
The sniper's 13-year-old victim continues to fight for his life as community of Bowie, Maryland, is still fighting fear.
CNN's Serena Altschul went to Bowie to see how people are coping.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't feel safe ever, except for when I'm in my house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just literally duck under my window.
SERENA ALTSCHUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ... aren't taking any chances.
(on camera): Do you always come to pick up your kids...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Let's continue on this story and talk about who is this sniper and when will he be caught? Let's go to Washington and criminal profiler Pat Brown. She's CEO and founder of the sexual homicide exchange, which offers assistance to law officials.
Pat, thanks for being with us.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Good morning.
PHILLIPS: Let's talk about the fact that the shooter is enlarging his range here. Does that concern you?
BROWN: Yes. One of the most interesting things this guy is doing is he's going from county to county to county now. And it's hard to say exactly why. He may just be wanting to spread law enforcement thin, maybe wanting to say I can hit anywhere and anyplace, and you can't stop me. He may be looking for places where law enforcement hasn't focused on yet so he can slide in and commit a crime and get away with it.
PHILLIPS: So from an investigator's perspective, I guess there could be advantages also, right, to varying locations and varying times?
BROWN: It's very helpful, especially for the public. This is something the police really want to push to the public: If this guy is in all these places, he has to be not someplace else. So the public can be looking for that weird guy that has the gun who has been missing at all these different occasions.
PHILLIPS: For me, I thought maybe the more police involved the better. But you have a different approach on this.
BROWN: Well, I don't know I have I different approach on it, but each police department likes to work on their own case. And what happens is that as there are more and more case and more and more involvement and the FBI comes in and the ATF comes in, you've got the problem that everybody is kind of vying for I'll take care of this and you take care of that. And then there's the problem with the tips coming in and so many people handling the tips that things might get lost or confused in all of that. I don't know they can solve that problem, but it's just one of the things that happens when you have such a large investigation.
We talk about the break down among intelligence agencies all of the time, don't we? Look at pre-9/11: There's another example.
But back to this case, let's talk about what is happening here that may be throwing off healthy tips. Are you concerned about the fact that the description of the car keeps changing?
BROWN: Well, there is always a problem with descriptions of cars. It's happened in many cases. What will happen is a witness will see a car leave an area, and they will say -- rightly so -- they'll give the tip to the police, they'll say, I saw this vehicle leaving. The problem is the police have to be very careful to let public know that they do not know if this has anything to do with the crime. In other words, we want information on this white truck or we want information on this white van because this person may be involved in crime or they may just be a witness. They may just be a person who heard a gunshot and wants to get the heck out of there as quick as they can.
So you want tips from everybody coming in. So in other words, if you know a weird guy but he doesn't own a white vehicle, you may not call this tip in -- you may say he didn't have the vehicle.
So please, everybody out there: Call the tips in an anybody, regardless of the color of the vehicle that they own.
PHILLIPS: There has been a lot of talk too whether this is a serial killer, a mass murderer, a thrill sicker. You said last night on "CONNIE CHUNG," I heard you say, Nope, I believe this is a serial killer. Do you still believe that, and why? BROWN: Absolutely. What happens is it started out looking like a spree killer. It may be somebody who just lost his mind at a certain point, got angry at something, went over the edge, and he went and started committing these crimes. A spree killer will usually do them very quickly, he'll move in a direction, and then he'll usually get caught. A serial killer has down time, where he can think about his next crime; he has his emotional down time: He's done it, he enjoys it, he relaxes, he comes back and does it again.
This guy is now doing that one at a time; he's doing it very carefully. It may be also that that earlier crime, the earlier shooting that we don't yet whether it was connected may have been his first and he may have been unhappy with the publicity he got, because I never heard about that crime. So he may have been unhappy as well and said, Next time I'll do a bunch of people, then they'll notice me, then I'll keep playing my game. Yes, this is a serial killer.
PHILLIPS: Let's have you play geographic profiler here for a moment and let's look at the area. Do you think this guy -- I guess we don't know if it's a guy or woman, right? -- this individual, does this person live in the area?
BROWN: I would think this person knows this area very, very well. A spree killer, as I say, is usually directional, and he may go through an area just shooting people, anybody who he can find as he is moving along and doesn't really know the area at all. But this guy, his original spot was up in Montgomery County, and he criss-crossed a lot across Georgia Avenue that one corridor. My guess is he has a lot of familiarity with that area: He may live there, he may work there, he may have a friend there, a relative there, spending a great deal of time there.
At that point, he's branched out. He knows where his lines are, into the next county; he's crossed into D.C. Then he went south: Was he trying to get police look a different direction? Was he fleeing at that time and then changed his mind? We don't know. But he came back, went to P.G. county. Now he's down in Prince William County, and he's jumping from county to county. So he knows his way around. So we do want to look for a person who is pretty darn comfortable on the road.
PHILLIPS: So is there a freeway that is of interest to you when you look at the geographics here?
BROWN: Not particularly. I think he knows his escape routes.
PHILLIPS: Now the Tarot card. Is this a prank, or is this a very important piece of evidence here?
BROWN: It's hard to know. Unless it's been absolutely connected to the crime, we don't know. But I would err on the side of caution here and I would say to the police saying to the public -- and I think they should show the card, front, back and the writing; they should say to the public, We do not know if this card is connected to crime, but if it is, it's a very valuable piece of information -- if you know anybody who has this deck of cards in their possession, anyone has bought this deck of cards, anyone who you have given your deck of cards to, anyone who has this writing, please call the police. They should show this to everyone and get these people to call the tips in.
PHILLIPS: The fact that the Tarot card only showed up one time: any significance?
BROWN: Not really, because sometimes these guys as they're playing their game just come up with a new idea: This would be a cool thing to do. And this will more fun, and maybe I'll get more attention if do I this. It's just part of his game.
PHILLIPS: Pat, finally, you're a mom. You live in this area. Are you concerned?
BROWN: Correct. Absolutely. I have children in this area. They go to school here, and I have the same problem everybody else does. When they walk out of the house, they drive out of the house, I think, they have to go to the gas station, they have to go to school, what do I tell them. And I tell them what I'll tell everybody: There's not much you can do. There are a million ways to die, essentially. You could be in a car wreck, you could be hit by a drunk driver. You could get cancer tomorrow. You have to continue with life. Just do it as safely as you can, keep your eyes out, and please get those tips into the police so we can stop this guy.
PHILLIPS: Pat Brown, criminal profiler, great insight. Thanks so much, Pat.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR Use Our Secure Online Order Form Located At Www.Fdch.Com
