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Interview with Eric Haney

Aired October 18, 2002 - 14:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get another take on the Beltway sniper. Eric Haney trained as a sniper at Ft. Bragg, and was a founding member of the Army's elite Delta Force. He has his own theory about the person or people involved in the shootings. Good afternoon, sergeant major.
CMD. SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good afternoon.

LIN: All right. Several theories bandied about, and the latest one is a possible connection to al Qaeda. Does this hold any water with you?

HANEY: No. Not whatsoever. I completely discount that. Political terrorists -- and al Qaeda are political terrorists, they must publish their manifesto. They have to tell you what they're doing, and even when they have the discipline to hold that information low for a little while, the rumors of that run rampant through the coffee shops of the Middle East, and our intelligence people they are hearing nothing whatsoever about that.

LIN: But you have made an interesting point in the past that you believe that the sniper is working as a team, right?

HANEY: Yes. There are two men. They're working together. They've built themselves up to executing these kind of horrific attacks, and they're feeding off of one another, and also feeding an abhorrent personality.

LIN: Are they professionals?

HANEY: No, they're not professionals at all, other than they are killers now. But they have been meticulous and very clever in planning the attacks.

LIN: How meticulous? Do they actually rehearse? Do they walk the scene beforehand?

HANEY: They don't walk it, they drive it. They are very carefully selecting the site from which they fire. They have a kill zone that they've determined, and then they wait for a person to walk into it. That becomes the victim. At that point, as soon as the shot is fired, they very calmly and deliberately pull away from that place, and they're almost immediately off into the flow of traffic and away.

LIN: But if they're so cautious and they are so careful, why is that there are so many reports of white vans or light-colored vans? HANEY: Well, you know, if we stepped outside the building you are in right now, walked out on to the street, and stood there 30 seconds, you are going to see at least six white vans go by. These vehicles are ubiquitous in urban areas and suburban areas. They are all over the place. Also, they probably have been used -- I'm quite certain they're firing from a van or a covered truck, or perhaps something like a station wagon with tinted windows. They have a vehicle that is covered.

LIN: Yes. One of our viewers actually made an interesting point that they believe that there is some sort of a decoy vehicle being used, and there was one theory out there where there was a larger truck, where the white van would actually drive up the ramp into the larger truck and then make a getaway.

HANEY: Well, you always hear clever people coming up with clever things. This is very difficult to bring off, and it has to be simple, and the execution of this is simplicity in itself. It's operating on the kinds of things that people don't pay attention to. The shot, when it's fired inside a vehicle doesn't produce the rolling report of a rifle shot in most people's mind. What's heard, though, is a loud thump, and the people who have been in the parking lot, some of those folks are going to be able to remember that, and say, Yes, I have heard that sound.

LIN: Does it worry you, though, that we haven't heard anything from the sniper since last Monday. It's the longest lull in this investigation since he started striking about three weeks ago?

HANEY: Well, a couple of points on that. First, they're exhausted, physically and mentally they're utterly exhausted now. That is hard to keep that tempo of operation up, even for a real professional. I can tell you, having been in combat zones, and being sniper, it is tough on you.

Also, with that first flurry of six, they became so confident of their abilities that they continued on, I think, with the next shootings of using areas that they really hadn't planned to use. They had the A-list, which were the first six, and then the other ones were the B-list.

They were taking the weekends off because they had to plan for the next week's operations, what they were going to do. Now, they've exhausted mentally, they've exhausted physically, and they have exhausted the sites that they have reconned and planned to shoot from. So, they have to go to work again.

LIN: So, going to work. Do you think there is going to be a long period, a lull for a period while they plan out other sites?

HANEY: I certainly hope so. I think there's going to be gap in that now, and that really works to society's favor and the police's favor in trying to find who these people are and grab them.

LIN: Yes, but boy, the tension has got to be high because everybody's just waiting for the next one, and of course, every strike provides more evidence for investigators. So, doesn't that, in a way, hurt the investigation?

HANEY: I don't know that it hurts it. They're able to go back now and take really deliberate, dispassionate views of the situation. Remember, this was a frenzy, and it is a frenzy for everyone. They were crossing so many jurisdictional lines that you wonder who was coordinating the hunt itself. It makes it very, very difficult.

So, I think we're at the point, now, that some judicious thought can go into it. They can look at the sites, make determinations, the police can themselves, of how they're pulling this off, and give them some insight on how to -- not catch them immediately, at least how to thwart some of them.

LIN: Sergeant major, can we do that ourselves as we go to the shopping malls or the gas stations? Can we look around, site survey ourselves, to know where we are most vulnerable, and how we should move?

HANEY: Absolutely. You certainly can. These shots are taking place down the lanes of parking areas. The parking lots of strip malls. So think of that when you drive in and park, and then you walk to the store, you walk down that same lane. The shooters are 50 to 75 meters away from the front of the store. They're shooting from the back end of parking lots, where no one else likes to park. We all like to park close to where we're going to go to. We don't like to walk. So, you have that. Look behind you. Look down that lane, and if you see a vehicle down there parked with its rear end facing back towards the store area, be suspicious.

If you are in a parking lot, and you hear a thump, it will have sort of a metallic sound like you slapped the side of the washing machine in your laundry room, that may well be that you are hearing a shot fired.

And also, there's one person walking around who was at the Michaels store where the window was shot. That was a person that was shot at. They didn't realize what happened, but what they heard was the sonic crack of the bullet as it went by their head. It is a loud crack, almost like the little pop rocks that little boys like to throw on the pavement and makes that popping sound. Someone out there heard that sound. If they were walking back to their car, there's a good possibility that they saw the vehicle where the shot came from.

LIN: Interesting. All right. Well, we know better where to look and where to stand. Sergeant Major Eric Haney, thank you very much.

HANEY: Certainly.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 18, 2002 - 14:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get another take on the Beltway sniper. Eric Haney trained as a sniper at Ft. Bragg, and was a founding member of the Army's elite Delta Force. He has his own theory about the person or people involved in the shootings. Good afternoon, sergeant major.
CMD. SGT. MAJ. ERIC HANEY, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good afternoon.

LIN: All right. Several theories bandied about, and the latest one is a possible connection to al Qaeda. Does this hold any water with you?

HANEY: No. Not whatsoever. I completely discount that. Political terrorists -- and al Qaeda are political terrorists, they must publish their manifesto. They have to tell you what they're doing, and even when they have the discipline to hold that information low for a little while, the rumors of that run rampant through the coffee shops of the Middle East, and our intelligence people they are hearing nothing whatsoever about that.

LIN: But you have made an interesting point in the past that you believe that the sniper is working as a team, right?

HANEY: Yes. There are two men. They're working together. They've built themselves up to executing these kind of horrific attacks, and they're feeding off of one another, and also feeding an abhorrent personality.

LIN: Are they professionals?

HANEY: No, they're not professionals at all, other than they are killers now. But they have been meticulous and very clever in planning the attacks.

LIN: How meticulous? Do they actually rehearse? Do they walk the scene beforehand?

HANEY: They don't walk it, they drive it. They are very carefully selecting the site from which they fire. They have a kill zone that they've determined, and then they wait for a person to walk into it. That becomes the victim. At that point, as soon as the shot is fired, they very calmly and deliberately pull away from that place, and they're almost immediately off into the flow of traffic and away.

LIN: But if they're so cautious and they are so careful, why is that there are so many reports of white vans or light-colored vans? HANEY: Well, you know, if we stepped outside the building you are in right now, walked out on to the street, and stood there 30 seconds, you are going to see at least six white vans go by. These vehicles are ubiquitous in urban areas and suburban areas. They are all over the place. Also, they probably have been used -- I'm quite certain they're firing from a van or a covered truck, or perhaps something like a station wagon with tinted windows. They have a vehicle that is covered.

LIN: Yes. One of our viewers actually made an interesting point that they believe that there is some sort of a decoy vehicle being used, and there was one theory out there where there was a larger truck, where the white van would actually drive up the ramp into the larger truck and then make a getaway.

HANEY: Well, you always hear clever people coming up with clever things. This is very difficult to bring off, and it has to be simple, and the execution of this is simplicity in itself. It's operating on the kinds of things that people don't pay attention to. The shot, when it's fired inside a vehicle doesn't produce the rolling report of a rifle shot in most people's mind. What's heard, though, is a loud thump, and the people who have been in the parking lot, some of those folks are going to be able to remember that, and say, Yes, I have heard that sound.

LIN: Does it worry you, though, that we haven't heard anything from the sniper since last Monday. It's the longest lull in this investigation since he started striking about three weeks ago?

HANEY: Well, a couple of points on that. First, they're exhausted, physically and mentally they're utterly exhausted now. That is hard to keep that tempo of operation up, even for a real professional. I can tell you, having been in combat zones, and being sniper, it is tough on you.

Also, with that first flurry of six, they became so confident of their abilities that they continued on, I think, with the next shootings of using areas that they really hadn't planned to use. They had the A-list, which were the first six, and then the other ones were the B-list.

They were taking the weekends off because they had to plan for the next week's operations, what they were going to do. Now, they've exhausted mentally, they've exhausted physically, and they have exhausted the sites that they have reconned and planned to shoot from. So, they have to go to work again.

LIN: So, going to work. Do you think there is going to be a long period, a lull for a period while they plan out other sites?

HANEY: I certainly hope so. I think there's going to be gap in that now, and that really works to society's favor and the police's favor in trying to find who these people are and grab them.

LIN: Yes, but boy, the tension has got to be high because everybody's just waiting for the next one, and of course, every strike provides more evidence for investigators. So, doesn't that, in a way, hurt the investigation?

HANEY: I don't know that it hurts it. They're able to go back now and take really deliberate, dispassionate views of the situation. Remember, this was a frenzy, and it is a frenzy for everyone. They were crossing so many jurisdictional lines that you wonder who was coordinating the hunt itself. It makes it very, very difficult.

So, I think we're at the point, now, that some judicious thought can go into it. They can look at the sites, make determinations, the police can themselves, of how they're pulling this off, and give them some insight on how to -- not catch them immediately, at least how to thwart some of them.

LIN: Sergeant major, can we do that ourselves as we go to the shopping malls or the gas stations? Can we look around, site survey ourselves, to know where we are most vulnerable, and how we should move?

HANEY: Absolutely. You certainly can. These shots are taking place down the lanes of parking areas. The parking lots of strip malls. So think of that when you drive in and park, and then you walk to the store, you walk down that same lane. The shooters are 50 to 75 meters away from the front of the store. They're shooting from the back end of parking lots, where no one else likes to park. We all like to park close to where we're going to go to. We don't like to walk. So, you have that. Look behind you. Look down that lane, and if you see a vehicle down there parked with its rear end facing back towards the store area, be suspicious.

If you are in a parking lot, and you hear a thump, it will have sort of a metallic sound like you slapped the side of the washing machine in your laundry room, that may well be that you are hearing a shot fired.

And also, there's one person walking around who was at the Michaels store where the window was shot. That was a person that was shot at. They didn't realize what happened, but what they heard was the sonic crack of the bullet as it went by their head. It is a loud crack, almost like the little pop rocks that little boys like to throw on the pavement and makes that popping sound. Someone out there heard that sound. If they were walking back to their car, there's a good possibility that they saw the vehicle where the shot came from.

LIN: Interesting. All right. Well, we know better where to look and where to stand. Sergeant Major Eric Haney, thank you very much.

HANEY: Certainly.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com