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Federal Government Stakes Claim to Prosecute Muhammad
Aired October 29, 2002 - 14:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: We begin, though, this hour with the latest batch of legal trouble facing John Allen Muhammad. As we mentioned, the federal government has staked its claim to prosecute Muhammad, though no one knows for sure which state or system will get the first chance.
CNN's Bob Franken is live from Greenbelt, Maryland, and he joins us with more on the unfolding story -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And this is the federal government, Martin, making sure that it gets its legal hands into this by coming up with a variety of charges that are facing a possible death penalty. Muhammad was transported from Baltimore, Maryland to this courthouse, which really covers the area of Maryland where so many of the shootings occurred, Montgomery County to Prince George's County.
He was brought quite a while ago. He has a hearing within the hour, which is nothing more than an initial hearing, where he will be apprised of the charges, and those charges include conspiracy to commit offenses against the United States, conspiracy to affect interstate commerce by extortion, and threats of violence, affecting interstate commerce by threats of physical violence, which is the overt act, connected with the conspiracy, affecting interstate commerce, and then interstate transportation and aid of racketeering, the RICO statute, discharging a firearm into a school zone, and use of a firearm in commission of a crime of violence causing death of a person. It's a federal crime so that brings with it the death penalty if there's a successful conviction.
Now, he's not accompanied by John Malvo, who is only listed in this affidavit as "John Doe, juvenile." This's the alleged associate. Now the attorney general, John Ashcroft, who's a staunch advocate of the death penalty, held a news conference just a short while ago which you saw on CNN, to discuss among things why he believes that the search for the death penalty venues is particularly appropriate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTY. GENERAL: I consider the matters charged in the federal indictment today to be atrocities. They're tragedies. They are very serious. And, it's important that we have available the very most serious penalties in the setting like this. And, we want to be able to make sure that the system of justice operates to effectively to make sure that the most serious penalties are available to address very serious crimes like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: And of course, that's a discussion about various state charges, including state of Maryland, which has already filed its charges in Montgomery County, with concerns among prosecutors that the death penalty will be harder to achieve there than in Virginia, where charges have not yet been filed because of some legal intricacies, but the federal government is getting into the act.
As far as John Malvo is concerned, he is not here, to the best of our knowledge. His proceedings are secret, because he is at the moment considered a juvenile. And under the federal procedures, those are not open proceedings, or under the federal procedures, if he is a juvenile, could he have the death penalty levied against him, which is not true in the state of Virginia. So this is developing legally. And as I said, the next act seems to be the hearing here at Greenbelt federal courthouse within the hour -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: And speaking of that hearing, Bob, what's security like for it?
FRANKEN: You know, it's quite interesting, as a matter of fact. The hearing -- the security, rather, is normal. I checked with some of the security people here. I should point out that at this courthouse, like so many of them, normal security is heavy security. For instance, you are not allowed on any grassy areas here, and even if you step on for just a moment, someone will come over and tell a cameraman or something you have to move. Security is heavy, but normal.
SAVIDGE: All right, Bob Franken, we'll wait to hear more after the hearing. Thanks very much.
While authorities prepare for Muhammad's initial hearing on those new federal charges, let's bring in our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to walk us through the complexities, and it seems to be growing more complex with each passing day. Now the feds stepping in. Is this big footing on their part?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's one way of putting it. Usually, when you have a turf battle, Uncle Sam usually wins. The federal government in the law enforcement context almost always takes control when it has the opportunity.
Here, what makes it complicated is because of federal law, if the feds were to proceed first, that would mean Malvo would not be eligible for the death penalty, at least initially. So the federal government, which is, obviously, very committed to using the death penalty in this case, may want to use its power to steer the case to Virginia, because that's where the case is most likely to result in the death penalty for both Muhammad and Malvo.
SAVIDGE: But can this look like a United States government that is bent on a vendetta, in other words death, as opposed to just justice in the case?
TOOBIN: You know, that's an interesting question, Martin. One of the things that has really sort of transformed the death penalty debate since the arrest of these sniper suspects is just the enthusiasm with which all these prosecutors are talking about the death penalty. That isn't the way it usually works. There's usually some restraint, there's usually some sort of reverence for the death penalty, in a sense, because it is such an extreme sanction. But here, you know, like I've never seen before, you have prosecutors saying, well, we are arranging everything about this case to get the fastest executions of both these people, including a 17-year-old, which is not done in almost any country in the world.
So, you know, the answer is, yes, this is unusual, but there doesn't seem to be a great cry of objection to it, because people are angry about these crimes.
SAVIDGE: And did we get a sense that there was real cooperation going on between the federal and state level on this case?
TOOBIN: No, I don't think we get that sense yet. I thought it was very interesting listening to Attorney General Ashcroft saying, we want to cooperate, we feel cooperation is the best way for this to proceed. What he did not say that the cooperation yet taken place, because there hasn't been no agreement yet on how these cases should proceed, and you have the Montgomery County prosecutors, the people who lost six victims, by far more than any other county, they remain committed to going first. So it's sort of a zero-sum game here. Everybody can't go first, and there's no agreement, at least not yet.
SAVIDGE: Well, if there was harmony in the investigation to come up with an arrest, we'll see how it holds up with the prosecution.
Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 29, 2002 - 14:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: We begin, though, this hour with the latest batch of legal trouble facing John Allen Muhammad. As we mentioned, the federal government has staked its claim to prosecute Muhammad, though no one knows for sure which state or system will get the first chance.
CNN's Bob Franken is live from Greenbelt, Maryland, and he joins us with more on the unfolding story -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And this is the federal government, Martin, making sure that it gets its legal hands into this by coming up with a variety of charges that are facing a possible death penalty. Muhammad was transported from Baltimore, Maryland to this courthouse, which really covers the area of Maryland where so many of the shootings occurred, Montgomery County to Prince George's County.
He was brought quite a while ago. He has a hearing within the hour, which is nothing more than an initial hearing, where he will be apprised of the charges, and those charges include conspiracy to commit offenses against the United States, conspiracy to affect interstate commerce by extortion, and threats of violence, affecting interstate commerce by threats of physical violence, which is the overt act, connected with the conspiracy, affecting interstate commerce, and then interstate transportation and aid of racketeering, the RICO statute, discharging a firearm into a school zone, and use of a firearm in commission of a crime of violence causing death of a person. It's a federal crime so that brings with it the death penalty if there's a successful conviction.
Now, he's not accompanied by John Malvo, who is only listed in this affidavit as "John Doe, juvenile." This's the alleged associate. Now the attorney general, John Ashcroft, who's a staunch advocate of the death penalty, held a news conference just a short while ago which you saw on CNN, to discuss among things why he believes that the search for the death penalty venues is particularly appropriate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTY. GENERAL: I consider the matters charged in the federal indictment today to be atrocities. They're tragedies. They are very serious. And, it's important that we have available the very most serious penalties in the setting like this. And, we want to be able to make sure that the system of justice operates to effectively to make sure that the most serious penalties are available to address very serious crimes like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: And of course, that's a discussion about various state charges, including state of Maryland, which has already filed its charges in Montgomery County, with concerns among prosecutors that the death penalty will be harder to achieve there than in Virginia, where charges have not yet been filed because of some legal intricacies, but the federal government is getting into the act.
As far as John Malvo is concerned, he is not here, to the best of our knowledge. His proceedings are secret, because he is at the moment considered a juvenile. And under the federal procedures, those are not open proceedings, or under the federal procedures, if he is a juvenile, could he have the death penalty levied against him, which is not true in the state of Virginia. So this is developing legally. And as I said, the next act seems to be the hearing here at Greenbelt federal courthouse within the hour -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: And speaking of that hearing, Bob, what's security like for it?
FRANKEN: You know, it's quite interesting, as a matter of fact. The hearing -- the security, rather, is normal. I checked with some of the security people here. I should point out that at this courthouse, like so many of them, normal security is heavy security. For instance, you are not allowed on any grassy areas here, and even if you step on for just a moment, someone will come over and tell a cameraman or something you have to move. Security is heavy, but normal.
SAVIDGE: All right, Bob Franken, we'll wait to hear more after the hearing. Thanks very much.
While authorities prepare for Muhammad's initial hearing on those new federal charges, let's bring in our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to walk us through the complexities, and it seems to be growing more complex with each passing day. Now the feds stepping in. Is this big footing on their part?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's one way of putting it. Usually, when you have a turf battle, Uncle Sam usually wins. The federal government in the law enforcement context almost always takes control when it has the opportunity.
Here, what makes it complicated is because of federal law, if the feds were to proceed first, that would mean Malvo would not be eligible for the death penalty, at least initially. So the federal government, which is, obviously, very committed to using the death penalty in this case, may want to use its power to steer the case to Virginia, because that's where the case is most likely to result in the death penalty for both Muhammad and Malvo.
SAVIDGE: But can this look like a United States government that is bent on a vendetta, in other words death, as opposed to just justice in the case?
TOOBIN: You know, that's an interesting question, Martin. One of the things that has really sort of transformed the death penalty debate since the arrest of these sniper suspects is just the enthusiasm with which all these prosecutors are talking about the death penalty. That isn't the way it usually works. There's usually some restraint, there's usually some sort of reverence for the death penalty, in a sense, because it is such an extreme sanction. But here, you know, like I've never seen before, you have prosecutors saying, well, we are arranging everything about this case to get the fastest executions of both these people, including a 17-year-old, which is not done in almost any country in the world.
So, you know, the answer is, yes, this is unusual, but there doesn't seem to be a great cry of objection to it, because people are angry about these crimes.
SAVIDGE: And did we get a sense that there was real cooperation going on between the federal and state level on this case?
TOOBIN: No, I don't think we get that sense yet. I thought it was very interesting listening to Attorney General Ashcroft saying, we want to cooperate, we feel cooperation is the best way for this to proceed. What he did not say that the cooperation yet taken place, because there hasn't been no agreement yet on how these cases should proceed, and you have the Montgomery County prosecutors, the people who lost six victims, by far more than any other county, they remain committed to going first. So it's sort of a zero-sum game here. Everybody can't go first, and there's no agreement, at least not yet.
SAVIDGE: Well, if there was harmony in the investigation to come up with an arrest, we'll see how it holds up with the prosecution.
Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
