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Discussion with Former Astronaut Norm Thagard

Aired February 03, 2003 - 13:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me, to listen along with me, listening to it, is Norm Thagard, shuttle veteran himself.
Norm, what do you take away from this briefing so far?

NORM THAGARD, FMR. ASTRONAUT: You're absolutely right, Miles, in that this was more about process than presenting any new information. Bill Readdy wanted to remind folks again while he have info about heating in the west wing and foam material, whatever it was, striking the wing, it's early. The process is one of ruling out, rather than ruling in.

O'BRIEN: Yes, and of course, at this point, way too early to make a direct link between that piece of foam three -- 7 inches x 30 inches striking the wing and what happened 16 days later.

THAGARD: It is, and given the thought that couldn't be the cause, you have to keep looking for other things.

O'BRIEN: All right, a couple of other things that came up. There's a report of the Aerospace Safety and Advisory Panel critical of NASA's safety situation long run with the shuttle.

I also tend to think it's probably very early to say that that has anything to do with what we saw here. To make a link between those two things, connect those dots at this juncture, might be premature?

THAGARD: I think it is premature. First of all, they have pointed out they really didn't fire anyone off board, although some of the folks have been on there a long time, so long that their expertise was old, they wanted to bring in new blood. The people, in fact, head of it, was given NASA's highest medals, so it didn't sound like a firing.

O'BRIEN: The other issue which came is the budgetary issues, NASA constantly trying to get more money to upgrade the fleet. This is a fleet that was supposed to last 10 years. It's been flying 20 years plus, and it's supposed to fly another 20 years. At least, before the accident, that was the thought.

And over time, the money spent on upgrading it, it's been hard to get that money out of Congress. Do you have any sense that could be a contributor to what happened on Saturday morning?

THAGARD: I would doubt it, because when it was suppose sod be a 10-year fleet, it was also supposed to be a fleet that was going to have a flight every week, 50 flights a year. The Columbia was nowhere near its 100-flight lifetime, so it's doubtful that that was a factor.

O'BRIEN: All right. The fact they have opened up a second command post at another Air Force base outside of Ft. Worth, Texas, that gives you a sense of how big this debris field is. How much that is that going to complicate this piecing it together literally and figuratively?

THAGARD: It complicates it, but it doesn't render it impossible. And it was, of course, the fact the debris field wound up being bigger than anticipated, and did include areas nearer to Ft. Worth and the Carswell (ph) Air Force Base that prompted them to open that new center.

O'BRIEN: And a final thought before we actually right down to the ground there, so to speak, this thought of possibly finding something in the avionics computers or recorders, is that a big focus right now, or is most of the data right here at computers in Houston?

THAGARD: Most of the data is here on computers at Houston. Because much of the data gets telemetered to the ground real-time much of the time, there's not quite the need for a crash-proof recorder that you would find in airliners, and there is no such thing on the shuttle.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's -- with that, as we talk about that tremendous debris field, let's send it to Ed Lavandera, who has been in Nacogdoches, Texas ever since very early Saturday morning. He brings us the latest on the search for pieces of Columbia -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, hi.

Some good news here out of Nacogdoches, where officials here are starting to get the word and the help and the guidance that they've been hoping to get over the last 24 hours. We understand now that teams will be heading out throughout the Nacogdoches and east Texas area to begin collecting, and cataloging, and what they will do is find the debris. They are creating a priority list of what debris should be picked up first, then teams will be sent out to the sites. They will be photographing and then bagging a lot of the debris that is found, and that will be taken to an airport here at Nacogdoches.

And from there, not exactly sure at to what will happen, but the guidance that we've had so far, is that much of this debris will be headed to Barksdale Air Force Base. And of course these teams will be made up of seven people. One of those people will be someone responsible for using GPS technology to help NASA and federal officials catalog and to figure out where exactly all of the debris has been spread out.

And to help us understand this a little better, we're joined by James Kroll, who is the director of the Forest Resource Institute at Steven F. Austin State University.

And what exactly are your folks going to be doing?

JAMES KROLL, DIR., FOREST RESEARCH INST.: We have folks organized in teams that are accompanied by a GPS technician that goes out, locates every report that we get, goes out, finds it, categorizes it, and then takes a very precise GPS location on it.

LAVANDERA: And the goal here in the end is to create a map that will really show just how huge this debris field is, right?

KROLL: Absolutely. And we already have quite a bit of it mapped, and it is a huge debris field. Our map is showing right now about 100 miles long and up to 20 miles wide.

LAVANDERA: Is there just through Nacogdoches County, or is that what we're seeing through all of east Texas and western Louisiana?

KROLL: It's not just through Nacogdoches county. It's a straight line pretty much from just south of Dallas through Nacogdoches County, right across the southern part of Nacogdoches City, on into Sadine County, Toledo Bin Reservoir, and then there's some of it into Louisiana.

LAVANDERA: Give us an idea of exactly what your person on the ground will be doing as they come across each piece of debris?

KROLL: Well, first of all, they're not going to touch it. They will go to the site, locate, determine, first of all, make a decision whether it truly is shuttle debris. And then we've got an extensive coding system allows them to categorize its size, nature, how important it is, and then, of course, get the location.

LAVANDERA: Thank you very much, Mr. Kroll, appreciate you joining us. So, Miles, here, the officials seem to be rather excited. They've been working very busy here this morning, very quickly, as to try to get these teams out so they can start collecting this debris, because there's still much more to collect, and that's what they want to be able to move on to -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, thank you very much, Ed Lavandera. We appreciate that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 3, 2003 - 13:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me, to listen along with me, listening to it, is Norm Thagard, shuttle veteran himself.
Norm, what do you take away from this briefing so far?

NORM THAGARD, FMR. ASTRONAUT: You're absolutely right, Miles, in that this was more about process than presenting any new information. Bill Readdy wanted to remind folks again while he have info about heating in the west wing and foam material, whatever it was, striking the wing, it's early. The process is one of ruling out, rather than ruling in.

O'BRIEN: Yes, and of course, at this point, way too early to make a direct link between that piece of foam three -- 7 inches x 30 inches striking the wing and what happened 16 days later.

THAGARD: It is, and given the thought that couldn't be the cause, you have to keep looking for other things.

O'BRIEN: All right, a couple of other things that came up. There's a report of the Aerospace Safety and Advisory Panel critical of NASA's safety situation long run with the shuttle.

I also tend to think it's probably very early to say that that has anything to do with what we saw here. To make a link between those two things, connect those dots at this juncture, might be premature?

THAGARD: I think it is premature. First of all, they have pointed out they really didn't fire anyone off board, although some of the folks have been on there a long time, so long that their expertise was old, they wanted to bring in new blood. The people, in fact, head of it, was given NASA's highest medals, so it didn't sound like a firing.

O'BRIEN: The other issue which came is the budgetary issues, NASA constantly trying to get more money to upgrade the fleet. This is a fleet that was supposed to last 10 years. It's been flying 20 years plus, and it's supposed to fly another 20 years. At least, before the accident, that was the thought.

And over time, the money spent on upgrading it, it's been hard to get that money out of Congress. Do you have any sense that could be a contributor to what happened on Saturday morning?

THAGARD: I would doubt it, because when it was suppose sod be a 10-year fleet, it was also supposed to be a fleet that was going to have a flight every week, 50 flights a year. The Columbia was nowhere near its 100-flight lifetime, so it's doubtful that that was a factor.

O'BRIEN: All right. The fact they have opened up a second command post at another Air Force base outside of Ft. Worth, Texas, that gives you a sense of how big this debris field is. How much that is that going to complicate this piecing it together literally and figuratively?

THAGARD: It complicates it, but it doesn't render it impossible. And it was, of course, the fact the debris field wound up being bigger than anticipated, and did include areas nearer to Ft. Worth and the Carswell (ph) Air Force Base that prompted them to open that new center.

O'BRIEN: And a final thought before we actually right down to the ground there, so to speak, this thought of possibly finding something in the avionics computers or recorders, is that a big focus right now, or is most of the data right here at computers in Houston?

THAGARD: Most of the data is here on computers at Houston. Because much of the data gets telemetered to the ground real-time much of the time, there's not quite the need for a crash-proof recorder that you would find in airliners, and there is no such thing on the shuttle.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's -- with that, as we talk about that tremendous debris field, let's send it to Ed Lavandera, who has been in Nacogdoches, Texas ever since very early Saturday morning. He brings us the latest on the search for pieces of Columbia -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, hi.

Some good news here out of Nacogdoches, where officials here are starting to get the word and the help and the guidance that they've been hoping to get over the last 24 hours. We understand now that teams will be heading out throughout the Nacogdoches and east Texas area to begin collecting, and cataloging, and what they will do is find the debris. They are creating a priority list of what debris should be picked up first, then teams will be sent out to the sites. They will be photographing and then bagging a lot of the debris that is found, and that will be taken to an airport here at Nacogdoches.

And from there, not exactly sure at to what will happen, but the guidance that we've had so far, is that much of this debris will be headed to Barksdale Air Force Base. And of course these teams will be made up of seven people. One of those people will be someone responsible for using GPS technology to help NASA and federal officials catalog and to figure out where exactly all of the debris has been spread out.

And to help us understand this a little better, we're joined by James Kroll, who is the director of the Forest Resource Institute at Steven F. Austin State University.

And what exactly are your folks going to be doing?

JAMES KROLL, DIR., FOREST RESEARCH INST.: We have folks organized in teams that are accompanied by a GPS technician that goes out, locates every report that we get, goes out, finds it, categorizes it, and then takes a very precise GPS location on it.

LAVANDERA: And the goal here in the end is to create a map that will really show just how huge this debris field is, right?

KROLL: Absolutely. And we already have quite a bit of it mapped, and it is a huge debris field. Our map is showing right now about 100 miles long and up to 20 miles wide.

LAVANDERA: Is there just through Nacogdoches County, or is that what we're seeing through all of east Texas and western Louisiana?

KROLL: It's not just through Nacogdoches county. It's a straight line pretty much from just south of Dallas through Nacogdoches County, right across the southern part of Nacogdoches City, on into Sadine County, Toledo Bin Reservoir, and then there's some of it into Louisiana.

LAVANDERA: Give us an idea of exactly what your person on the ground will be doing as they come across each piece of debris?

KROLL: Well, first of all, they're not going to touch it. They will go to the site, locate, determine, first of all, make a decision whether it truly is shuttle debris. And then we've got an extensive coding system allows them to categorize its size, nature, how important it is, and then, of course, get the location.

LAVANDERA: Thank you very much, Mr. Kroll, appreciate you joining us. So, Miles, here, the officials seem to be rather excited. They've been working very busy here this morning, very quickly, as to try to get these teams out so they can start collecting this debris, because there's still much more to collect, and that's what they want to be able to move on to -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, thank you very much, Ed Lavandera. We appreciate that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com