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South Africa Takes Part

Aired February 19, 2003 - 13:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: South African scientists are headed to Baghdad, a headline that not only caught our attention, but got us asking why. South Africa knows weapons of mass destruction. Its people dismantled them more than 10 years ago. It's a bit of history that's making history right now.
Johannesburg bureau chief Charlayne Hunter-Gault joins us now live to explain why.

Charlayne, why exactly is South Africa sending these scientists to Baghdad?

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, South Africa has been very aggressively involved in trying to avert war in Baghdad. They sent one of its top envoys, deputy foreign minister, and now they believe that with the United Nations having pointed to South Africa as the model of disarmament, with the United States, in fact, agreeing with that, because, as you just said, South Africa did voluntarily dismantle its nuclear weapons program way back in the early '90s, and so South Africa believes it really has something to share with Saddam Hussein if he is, indeed, himself committed to avoid war, and can demonstrate he has no weapons of mass destruction -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Charlayne, we're looking actually at the facility right now. We were just rolling video. Give us a little background on the weapons of mass destruction that did exist in South Africa and why these factories were dismantled.

HUNTER-GAULT: Well, South Africa was surrounded by liberation movements fighting for independence, in Mozambique, in Namibia, and as one of its former officials told me just today, Pigbosa (ph), who was foreign minister, they were very concerned. In fact, in Mozambique, there were Cuban troops fighting. So they began to develop these bombs, they say, as a deterrent not to be used, but, in fact, to get the United States and Europe, if things got hot in the neighborhood, as people have just said to me today, they would say, we're going to use this bomb unless you intervene.

And so they began -- this is a very uranium-rich country, they had the materials here. So they began developing these weapons to use as leverage to get help if they needed it in case things got really hotter. And then of course the liberation movements were successful in Mozambique, the Cuban troops left, Namibia moved to independence.

And so as I was told, they decided they did not need these expensive weapons, but by this time they had developed six and were working on a seventh bomb. There are others who say that the government -- the white apartheid regime saw that they were going to have to negotiate with the black-led African National Congress, and that they may eventually inherit this country as the other liberation movements did, so they wanted to get rid of these weapons so they wouldn't fall into these black hands. Of course, officials of that regime say that was not the real reason -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Fascinating piece of history.

You covered the anti-war demonstrations in South Africa. Here's what one demonstrator said to you just a couple days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Africans are suffering whenever there is a war in Africa or out of Africa. That's why we don't need war in Iraq or whatever, or in Palestine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Charlayne, you've told me how people of South Africa are taking a possible war against Iraq very personally. That's why they're sending these scientists to Baghdad, to try to dismantle weapons of mass destruction. Tell me why they're taking it so personally.

HUNTER-GAULT: Yes, you know, the gentleman you just heard is from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and one of the things that's held African development back for so long is the many conflicts around the globe. And I think South African President Mbeki feels very strongly about his vision for an African renaissance, and believes he, like many people on the continent, believe that if there is, in fact, a war in Iraq, it will have a very negative spillover in these emerging countries that are trying to get back on their feet after so many wars. As you know, there just was an end to the war in Angola. We hope there's peace now in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

And so all of these countries are very nervous that a war in Iraq could mean that the oil prices would rise, which again, would make it very difficult for countries on the continent to survive.

And South Africa derives some power for negotiating in this realm, because it is chairman of the nonaligned movement, which has many, many of the developing country notice world. It is also chairman of the African Union, which is all of the countries of Africa, on the continent, and so South Africa may be, you know, not a big player on the global scale, but it does speak with some authority and, also, the fact that it was the first country to dismantle, gives it a sort of moral authority.

I have to quickly say, that there are people who disagree, who call this political tourism and coddling the dictator. Not everybody here agrees. But most of the people on this continent, in this country are very much opposed to this war, but not to Americans themselves -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Point well made. South African scientists headed to Baghdad. We'll follow that with you, Johannesburg bureau chief Charlayne Hunter-Gault, thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired February 19, 2003 - 13:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: South African scientists are headed to Baghdad, a headline that not only caught our attention, but got us asking why. South Africa knows weapons of mass destruction. Its people dismantled them more than 10 years ago. It's a bit of history that's making history right now.
Johannesburg bureau chief Charlayne Hunter-Gault joins us now live to explain why.

Charlayne, why exactly is South Africa sending these scientists to Baghdad?

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, South Africa has been very aggressively involved in trying to avert war in Baghdad. They sent one of its top envoys, deputy foreign minister, and now they believe that with the United Nations having pointed to South Africa as the model of disarmament, with the United States, in fact, agreeing with that, because, as you just said, South Africa did voluntarily dismantle its nuclear weapons program way back in the early '90s, and so South Africa believes it really has something to share with Saddam Hussein if he is, indeed, himself committed to avoid war, and can demonstrate he has no weapons of mass destruction -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Charlayne, we're looking actually at the facility right now. We were just rolling video. Give us a little background on the weapons of mass destruction that did exist in South Africa and why these factories were dismantled.

HUNTER-GAULT: Well, South Africa was surrounded by liberation movements fighting for independence, in Mozambique, in Namibia, and as one of its former officials told me just today, Pigbosa (ph), who was foreign minister, they were very concerned. In fact, in Mozambique, there were Cuban troops fighting. So they began to develop these bombs, they say, as a deterrent not to be used, but, in fact, to get the United States and Europe, if things got hot in the neighborhood, as people have just said to me today, they would say, we're going to use this bomb unless you intervene.

And so they began -- this is a very uranium-rich country, they had the materials here. So they began developing these weapons to use as leverage to get help if they needed it in case things got really hotter. And then of course the liberation movements were successful in Mozambique, the Cuban troops left, Namibia moved to independence.

And so as I was told, they decided they did not need these expensive weapons, but by this time they had developed six and were working on a seventh bomb. There are others who say that the government -- the white apartheid regime saw that they were going to have to negotiate with the black-led African National Congress, and that they may eventually inherit this country as the other liberation movements did, so they wanted to get rid of these weapons so they wouldn't fall into these black hands. Of course, officials of that regime say that was not the real reason -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Fascinating piece of history.

You covered the anti-war demonstrations in South Africa. Here's what one demonstrator said to you just a couple days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Africans are suffering whenever there is a war in Africa or out of Africa. That's why we don't need war in Iraq or whatever, or in Palestine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Charlayne, you've told me how people of South Africa are taking a possible war against Iraq very personally. That's why they're sending these scientists to Baghdad, to try to dismantle weapons of mass destruction. Tell me why they're taking it so personally.

HUNTER-GAULT: Yes, you know, the gentleman you just heard is from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and one of the things that's held African development back for so long is the many conflicts around the globe. And I think South African President Mbeki feels very strongly about his vision for an African renaissance, and believes he, like many people on the continent, believe that if there is, in fact, a war in Iraq, it will have a very negative spillover in these emerging countries that are trying to get back on their feet after so many wars. As you know, there just was an end to the war in Angola. We hope there's peace now in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

And so all of these countries are very nervous that a war in Iraq could mean that the oil prices would rise, which again, would make it very difficult for countries on the continent to survive.

And South Africa derives some power for negotiating in this realm, because it is chairman of the nonaligned movement, which has many, many of the developing country notice world. It is also chairman of the African Union, which is all of the countries of Africa, on the continent, and so South Africa may be, you know, not a big player on the global scale, but it does speak with some authority and, also, the fact that it was the first country to dismantle, gives it a sort of moral authority.

I have to quickly say, that there are people who disagree, who call this political tourism and coddling the dictator. Not everybody here agrees. But most of the people on this continent, in this country are very much opposed to this war, but not to Americans themselves -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Point well made. South African scientists headed to Baghdad. We'll follow that with you, Johannesburg bureau chief Charlayne Hunter-Gault, thank you very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com