Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Interview With Presidential Historian Douglas Brinkley

Aired February 24, 2003 - 13:46   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The former President Bush led the nation and coalition forces into war with Iraq back in 1991, of course. And now, 12 years later, his son, the current President Bush, is faced with going to war with Saddam Hussein. So, how will a conflict with Iraq paint the presidential legacies of both the father and the son?
Douglas Brinkley is a presidential historian. He joins me on the set to talk more about the legacy -- good to see you again.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Nice to see you.

COOPER: If you compare both presidents, different experiences coming into the job.

BRINKLEY: Absolutely. I mean, the first President Bush was a great World War II fighter pilot. He had 58 combat missions. He came back and really had a disdain, almost a blue-blooded East coast disdain for American politics. He served a short while for a congressman, but he made his name as head of the CIA, as our ambassador to the U.N., time in China, on and on.

His son, by contrast, went to Yale but turned his back on Yale. He liked to prefer to be seen as the Texas oilman-slash-cowboy, Southern, rootsy populist side to him, and he loved electoral politics and flourished at it. And when he came into office, he was very short on a foreign affairs background, and inherited all of his father's men, or a great deal of them. Particularly, Colin Powell and Dick Cheney, both who really made their name, at least in the consciousness of most of our viewers during the first Gulf War.

COOPER: Well, that is one of -- almost the similarities between the two is that they really both surrounded themselves with sort of a different caliber of people than -- a Bill Clinton. It was sort of a different generation of people they have surrounded themselves with.

BRINKLEY: Well, that's right. And -- you know, in the foreign affairs field, the Bushes, which -- it's almost like a corporation, you feel now, the Bush family and their extended friends, have -- I think history will view they're engagement in the Persian Gulf or the Gulf War, Iraq as much more unified than it seems now. I think 100 years from now, this will look as almost a continual battle against Saddam Hussein, which started when he invaded Kuwait and may not end for who knows how long.

After all, Douglas McArthur became the head of Japan after World War II. He thought he was only going to be there for three years. He ended up staying seven years. The United States didn't even give up Okinawa after World War II all the way to 1972. So the commitment that the Bush family has brought our country into Iraq is an ongoing story.

COOPER: So much has been made about the transformation -- or the alleged transformation that the current President Bush underwent after 9/11. Do you think the history on that has really been written at this point? Do you think we know the full extent of that?

BRINKLEY: Well, we can certainly do a first draft or a second draft version of it right now. It had a profound impact. I don't believe the Bush Doctrine would be in effect if it wasn't for 9/11, meaning the concept of a preemptive strike, which we're saying that we are willing to do in Iraq, I don't think would have occurred. 9/11, we got hit. Bush has said, we're never going to get hit again. Interestingly enough, the real concept of the Bush doctrine germinated out of his father's administration under Wolfowitz.

COOPER: Wolfowitz, right.

BRINKLEY: And the -- it's almost could be called the Wolfowitz Doctrine. By some people back then, it was. And it has kind of crept upwards through the bureaucracy. And after 9/11, it started making a lot more sense than it did in 1991 when our objective was simply to kick Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.

COOPER: And the so-called Wolfowitz Doctrine, which is very much unilateral movement, preemptive strikes?

BRINKLEY: That's right. Not to be afraid to go it alone, and that's something that his father would not have liked. One of the geniuses of the first George Bush, given the circumstances in 1991, the Cold War was just ending, and the Bush administration team had a lot of problems. The breakup of the Soviet Union, Noriega in Panama, reunification in Germany, and then that ability to go in to Iraq while they made sure they used the United Nations, and Bush Sr., who had a background at the U.N. and sending James Baker all over, getting the U.N. behind that war. That was an important move.

This time, this Bush is having a much harder time, not because of -- it's only because of the circumstances. The first one, most of the world agreed Kuwait should have been invaded. This time, it's the Bush Doctrine really that is being debated, and France and many other countries are saying, Forget it, we think this is a ridiculous idea.

COOPER: Well, it is so fascinating how -- sort of time, ten years changes one's perception. Wolfowitz's doctrine, if you want to call it that, was sort of deemed too forward thinking, too progressive at the time.

BRINKLEY: Or even too retrogressive.

COOPER: Right. Perhaps better terminology -- and now is sort of front and center.

BRINKLEY: 9/11 is this big stake in the middle of our times, and things changed after that profoundly. This whole concept of homeland security and a new kind of fear and anxiety, everywhere you look you're picking up things about American fear, American anxiousness, and that came to fruition. And, perhaps, preemptive strike is one way to make Americans feel more secure. If we see a bully aiming their gun at us, we're going to knock them out first, and I think the Bush administration is going to be remembered so far, in foreign affairs policy-making for the axis of evil speech, picking out three rogue nations and the Bush Doctrine.

COOPER: Douglas Brinkley on the first draft of history. Thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 24, 2003 - 13:46   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: The former President Bush led the nation and coalition forces into war with Iraq back in 1991, of course. And now, 12 years later, his son, the current President Bush, is faced with going to war with Saddam Hussein. So, how will a conflict with Iraq paint the presidential legacies of both the father and the son?
Douglas Brinkley is a presidential historian. He joins me on the set to talk more about the legacy -- good to see you again.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Nice to see you.

COOPER: If you compare both presidents, different experiences coming into the job.

BRINKLEY: Absolutely. I mean, the first President Bush was a great World War II fighter pilot. He had 58 combat missions. He came back and really had a disdain, almost a blue-blooded East coast disdain for American politics. He served a short while for a congressman, but he made his name as head of the CIA, as our ambassador to the U.N., time in China, on and on.

His son, by contrast, went to Yale but turned his back on Yale. He liked to prefer to be seen as the Texas oilman-slash-cowboy, Southern, rootsy populist side to him, and he loved electoral politics and flourished at it. And when he came into office, he was very short on a foreign affairs background, and inherited all of his father's men, or a great deal of them. Particularly, Colin Powell and Dick Cheney, both who really made their name, at least in the consciousness of most of our viewers during the first Gulf War.

COOPER: Well, that is one of -- almost the similarities between the two is that they really both surrounded themselves with sort of a different caliber of people than -- a Bill Clinton. It was sort of a different generation of people they have surrounded themselves with.

BRINKLEY: Well, that's right. And -- you know, in the foreign affairs field, the Bushes, which -- it's almost like a corporation, you feel now, the Bush family and their extended friends, have -- I think history will view they're engagement in the Persian Gulf or the Gulf War, Iraq as much more unified than it seems now. I think 100 years from now, this will look as almost a continual battle against Saddam Hussein, which started when he invaded Kuwait and may not end for who knows how long.

After all, Douglas McArthur became the head of Japan after World War II. He thought he was only going to be there for three years. He ended up staying seven years. The United States didn't even give up Okinawa after World War II all the way to 1972. So the commitment that the Bush family has brought our country into Iraq is an ongoing story.

COOPER: So much has been made about the transformation -- or the alleged transformation that the current President Bush underwent after 9/11. Do you think the history on that has really been written at this point? Do you think we know the full extent of that?

BRINKLEY: Well, we can certainly do a first draft or a second draft version of it right now. It had a profound impact. I don't believe the Bush Doctrine would be in effect if it wasn't for 9/11, meaning the concept of a preemptive strike, which we're saying that we are willing to do in Iraq, I don't think would have occurred. 9/11, we got hit. Bush has said, we're never going to get hit again. Interestingly enough, the real concept of the Bush doctrine germinated out of his father's administration under Wolfowitz.

COOPER: Wolfowitz, right.

BRINKLEY: And the -- it's almost could be called the Wolfowitz Doctrine. By some people back then, it was. And it has kind of crept upwards through the bureaucracy. And after 9/11, it started making a lot more sense than it did in 1991 when our objective was simply to kick Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait.

COOPER: And the so-called Wolfowitz Doctrine, which is very much unilateral movement, preemptive strikes?

BRINKLEY: That's right. Not to be afraid to go it alone, and that's something that his father would not have liked. One of the geniuses of the first George Bush, given the circumstances in 1991, the Cold War was just ending, and the Bush administration team had a lot of problems. The breakup of the Soviet Union, Noriega in Panama, reunification in Germany, and then that ability to go in to Iraq while they made sure they used the United Nations, and Bush Sr., who had a background at the U.N. and sending James Baker all over, getting the U.N. behind that war. That was an important move.

This time, this Bush is having a much harder time, not because of -- it's only because of the circumstances. The first one, most of the world agreed Kuwait should have been invaded. This time, it's the Bush Doctrine really that is being debated, and France and many other countries are saying, Forget it, we think this is a ridiculous idea.

COOPER: Well, it is so fascinating how -- sort of time, ten years changes one's perception. Wolfowitz's doctrine, if you want to call it that, was sort of deemed too forward thinking, too progressive at the time.

BRINKLEY: Or even too retrogressive.

COOPER: Right. Perhaps better terminology -- and now is sort of front and center.

BRINKLEY: 9/11 is this big stake in the middle of our times, and things changed after that profoundly. This whole concept of homeland security and a new kind of fear and anxiety, everywhere you look you're picking up things about American fear, American anxiousness, and that came to fruition. And, perhaps, preemptive strike is one way to make Americans feel more secure. If we see a bully aiming their gun at us, we're going to knock them out first, and I think the Bush administration is going to be remembered so far, in foreign affairs policy-making for the axis of evil speech, picking out three rogue nations and the Bush Doctrine.

COOPER: Douglas Brinkley on the first draft of history. Thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com