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Showdown: Iraq: Taking Sides

Aired March 10, 2003 - 14:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: More now on that evidence that the U.S. says is buried in the latest Hans Blix report to the Security Council. In addition to those drone aircraft, there is reportedly a tape showing Iraq once tested a cluster bomb that would spread chemicals over a large area.
CNN's Chris Burns at the White House for some reaction from there.

Hello, Chris.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, Hi.

Ari Fleischer is saying that this is very important. This will be discussed at the U.N. Security Council closed door meeting this afternoon about this drone. Could it be the smoking gun that the White House was looking for? It could very well be. According to a senior administration official, this is new, this is something very new.

United States are facing a very uphill battle, trying to get nine votes on the 15-member Security Council, nowhere near that, still only four votes. They need to try to persuade these six wavering countries, undecideds, on the Security Council to try to vote their way.

President Bush working the phones heavily today, started with Chinese President Jiang Zemin. China, of course, one of those countries that has veto power on the Security Council, President Bush trying to press the Chinese to try not for them to veto. Other countries that President Bush has been talking to, South Africa, Japan, Oman, and many others that White House spokesman Ari Fleischer says he's going to be giving us a long list of those later today.

Now the president also very -- not angered, but perhaps disappointed by Russia's threat to block, if not veto, this U.N. resolution.

Here's a statement by Ari Fleischer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: The president would be very disappointed if Russia were to take a stand. That would be a setback, not only for peace, because it's important to immediately disarm Saddam Hussein, but also for the freedom and the liberty of the Iraqi people. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNS: Having said that, Ari Fleischer having used the 'b' word, benchmarks, possible items that Iraq would have to comply with. Could they work the benchmarks into the U.N. resolution? Could this March 17th deadline slip? Well, Ari Fleischer is says saying there is flexibility within the diplomacy. There are talks right now, Britain being under fire. Of course, plenty of other countries, and also trying to persuade nine other countries on the 15-member Security Council to try to go along with that.

Another important meeting at the State Department between Secretary Powell and the foreign minister of Guinea. And Guinea is one of those undecided on the Security Council, also is presiding over the Security Council this month. Very key, and a statement from the Guinean foreign minister after this meeting, having indicated that there is talk of compromise -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Chris, tell us about some of the phone calls. It's interesting to me the president is calling outside the Security Council membership. Japan and South Africa come to mind. First of all, why call the prime minister of Japan? What can he do for the president right now?

BURNS: Miles, that's because Japan has come out in favor, backing President Bush on this issue. South Africa is sending chemical weapons experts to try to assist in the effort in Iraq in inspections. So these are -- among these -- and of course Oman very important. It's an Arabic, Muslim country, trying to make sure that there are Arabic countries on board, at least tacitly supporting what Bush, the president, would like to do.

So these are all very important, not only members of the security Council, but also countries that President Bush could count on as the coalition of the willing.

O'BRIEN: Chris, can you give us a sense of exactly what his argument is when he gets on the phone with these leaders? Does he base it on humanitarian, or is he attempting to curry favor with them, perhaps offering U.S. aid in the future?

BURNS: Well, that is interesting. Ari Fleischer saying that the president was talking about humanitarian aid, to at least to some of them. The leader of the Sultan of Oman among them, talking about humanitarian aid to the Iraqis, also talking about cooperation. That could be economic, could be political, could be support in regional conflicts or tensions. That's what they were talking about in some of those conversations.

So this being part of the lobbying that there are perhaps a little sort of persuasion involved in terms of politics and economics -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Chris Burns at the White House.

Let's turn our attention now a little bit north of there, New York City. Richard Roth, watching the United Nations for us.

Richard, is it arm twisting? Is it persuasion? Is he offering outright gifts?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: I think we were saying this one week ago, but we're coming into the final stretch. We have not observed anybody's arm pulled behind their back, and then thrown behind a wall here and sounds of anguish coming from Bush here outside of the Security Council. But the pressure is certainly there. And if you listen right now to Angola's U.N. ambassador, Angola one of the undecided six, you'll hear in him perhaps some of your question, Miles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GASPAR MARTINS, ANGOLAN AMB. TO U.N.: We're not yet there. We are not yet there. We're not yet raising hands. We're not sitting in a council voting. We are still looking for a position that can be acceptable by all the members of the council. That's what we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: That's the Angolan ambassador to the United Nations, refusing to say how he would vote, and again noting there is yet to be a vote called for. Diplomats told us it does not seem like we're going to have a vote tomorrow, inside the Security Council. Friday evening, the U.N. Security Council said that might be the first day for this. The wrangling still going on behind closed doors, likely this afternoon in about two hours.

Meanwhile, observing all of this from the Netherlands, watching the start-up of the new international criminal court is the United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan, who again says even more forcefully this time if the big powers and the Security Council cannot be united, and if the U.S. reacts militarily alone, it's got a bad impact for this global organization.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY. GENERAL: The members of the Security Council now face a grim choice. If they fail to agree on a common position and action is taken without the authority of the Security council, the legitimacy and support for any such action will be seriously impaired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: The British appear more willing to have a few more days added for discussion on this resolution, in order to get more members on board, in order to perhaps, as Chris Burns referred to, give Iraq specific disarmament tasks as a further test of how their cooperation really is going to be with a deadline looming if this resolution gets passed.

One final note, Miles, the Iraqi ambassador, Mohamed Aldouri telling CNN, regarding this drone report, that it's not true at the moment, and that Iraq will continue to study this issue. It might have a report to issue in regard to the U.N. report on disarmament task -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Not true at the moment. Should we read a lot into that?

ROTH: No. I think we've heard Iraq state this on many issues and it's still unknown if the statements are to be verified or if accurate. We may know only after a war or if the inspectors get more time.

O'BRIEN: One quick question. Seeing Kofi Annan there, it occurs to me there must have been talk, must be talk right now about the possibility of Kofi Annan going to Baghdad and attempting to forge some sort of diplomatic solution there. Has there been anything like that that you have heard in the has of the United Nations?

ROTH: Reporter: there is more talk of Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei going back, but the inspectors say they haven't received an invitation. Kofi Annan, a few weeks ago, said his good offices are available, but he doesn't believe now is the time for him to go there. He had a very bad experience in 1998. He tried to do business with the Iraqi government. Things didn't work out. An agreement on presidential palaces sites ended up not being respected. He's not interested in getting involved, especially at this late date, unless maybe all parties agree, and there is no one looking for him at this moment.

O'BRIEN: Quickly, last week you said it was about 6:00 on the diplomatic clock. What is it right now?

ROTH: Well, I don't even wear a watch, Miles. But I would say, Hans Blix said it was five minutes to midnight three weeks ago. So I would put it on the clock -- I would say 10:47 p.m.

O'BRIEN: 10:47 p.m., you're on record. Richard Roth at the United Nations, thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 10, 2003 - 14:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: More now on that evidence that the U.S. says is buried in the latest Hans Blix report to the Security Council. In addition to those drone aircraft, there is reportedly a tape showing Iraq once tested a cluster bomb that would spread chemicals over a large area.
CNN's Chris Burns at the White House for some reaction from there.

Hello, Chris.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, Hi.

Ari Fleischer is saying that this is very important. This will be discussed at the U.N. Security Council closed door meeting this afternoon about this drone. Could it be the smoking gun that the White House was looking for? It could very well be. According to a senior administration official, this is new, this is something very new.

United States are facing a very uphill battle, trying to get nine votes on the 15-member Security Council, nowhere near that, still only four votes. They need to try to persuade these six wavering countries, undecideds, on the Security Council to try to vote their way.

President Bush working the phones heavily today, started with Chinese President Jiang Zemin. China, of course, one of those countries that has veto power on the Security Council, President Bush trying to press the Chinese to try not for them to veto. Other countries that President Bush has been talking to, South Africa, Japan, Oman, and many others that White House spokesman Ari Fleischer says he's going to be giving us a long list of those later today.

Now the president also very -- not angered, but perhaps disappointed by Russia's threat to block, if not veto, this U.N. resolution.

Here's a statement by Ari Fleischer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: The president would be very disappointed if Russia were to take a stand. That would be a setback, not only for peace, because it's important to immediately disarm Saddam Hussein, but also for the freedom and the liberty of the Iraqi people. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNS: Having said that, Ari Fleischer having used the 'b' word, benchmarks, possible items that Iraq would have to comply with. Could they work the benchmarks into the U.N. resolution? Could this March 17th deadline slip? Well, Ari Fleischer is says saying there is flexibility within the diplomacy. There are talks right now, Britain being under fire. Of course, plenty of other countries, and also trying to persuade nine other countries on the 15-member Security Council to try to go along with that.

Another important meeting at the State Department between Secretary Powell and the foreign minister of Guinea. And Guinea is one of those undecided on the Security Council, also is presiding over the Security Council this month. Very key, and a statement from the Guinean foreign minister after this meeting, having indicated that there is talk of compromise -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Chris, tell us about some of the phone calls. It's interesting to me the president is calling outside the Security Council membership. Japan and South Africa come to mind. First of all, why call the prime minister of Japan? What can he do for the president right now?

BURNS: Miles, that's because Japan has come out in favor, backing President Bush on this issue. South Africa is sending chemical weapons experts to try to assist in the effort in Iraq in inspections. So these are -- among these -- and of course Oman very important. It's an Arabic, Muslim country, trying to make sure that there are Arabic countries on board, at least tacitly supporting what Bush, the president, would like to do.

So these are all very important, not only members of the security Council, but also countries that President Bush could count on as the coalition of the willing.

O'BRIEN: Chris, can you give us a sense of exactly what his argument is when he gets on the phone with these leaders? Does he base it on humanitarian, or is he attempting to curry favor with them, perhaps offering U.S. aid in the future?

BURNS: Well, that is interesting. Ari Fleischer saying that the president was talking about humanitarian aid, to at least to some of them. The leader of the Sultan of Oman among them, talking about humanitarian aid to the Iraqis, also talking about cooperation. That could be economic, could be political, could be support in regional conflicts or tensions. That's what they were talking about in some of those conversations.

So this being part of the lobbying that there are perhaps a little sort of persuasion involved in terms of politics and economics -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Chris Burns at the White House.

Let's turn our attention now a little bit north of there, New York City. Richard Roth, watching the United Nations for us.

Richard, is it arm twisting? Is it persuasion? Is he offering outright gifts?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: I think we were saying this one week ago, but we're coming into the final stretch. We have not observed anybody's arm pulled behind their back, and then thrown behind a wall here and sounds of anguish coming from Bush here outside of the Security Council. But the pressure is certainly there. And if you listen right now to Angola's U.N. ambassador, Angola one of the undecided six, you'll hear in him perhaps some of your question, Miles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GASPAR MARTINS, ANGOLAN AMB. TO U.N.: We're not yet there. We are not yet there. We're not yet raising hands. We're not sitting in a council voting. We are still looking for a position that can be acceptable by all the members of the council. That's what we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: That's the Angolan ambassador to the United Nations, refusing to say how he would vote, and again noting there is yet to be a vote called for. Diplomats told us it does not seem like we're going to have a vote tomorrow, inside the Security Council. Friday evening, the U.N. Security Council said that might be the first day for this. The wrangling still going on behind closed doors, likely this afternoon in about two hours.

Meanwhile, observing all of this from the Netherlands, watching the start-up of the new international criminal court is the United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan, who again says even more forcefully this time if the big powers and the Security Council cannot be united, and if the U.S. reacts militarily alone, it's got a bad impact for this global organization.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY. GENERAL: The members of the Security Council now face a grim choice. If they fail to agree on a common position and action is taken without the authority of the Security council, the legitimacy and support for any such action will be seriously impaired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: The British appear more willing to have a few more days added for discussion on this resolution, in order to get more members on board, in order to perhaps, as Chris Burns referred to, give Iraq specific disarmament tasks as a further test of how their cooperation really is going to be with a deadline looming if this resolution gets passed.

One final note, Miles, the Iraqi ambassador, Mohamed Aldouri telling CNN, regarding this drone report, that it's not true at the moment, and that Iraq will continue to study this issue. It might have a report to issue in regard to the U.N. report on disarmament task -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Not true at the moment. Should we read a lot into that?

ROTH: No. I think we've heard Iraq state this on many issues and it's still unknown if the statements are to be verified or if accurate. We may know only after a war or if the inspectors get more time.

O'BRIEN: One quick question. Seeing Kofi Annan there, it occurs to me there must have been talk, must be talk right now about the possibility of Kofi Annan going to Baghdad and attempting to forge some sort of diplomatic solution there. Has there been anything like that that you have heard in the has of the United Nations?

ROTH: Reporter: there is more talk of Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei going back, but the inspectors say they haven't received an invitation. Kofi Annan, a few weeks ago, said his good offices are available, but he doesn't believe now is the time for him to go there. He had a very bad experience in 1998. He tried to do business with the Iraqi government. Things didn't work out. An agreement on presidential palaces sites ended up not being respected. He's not interested in getting involved, especially at this late date, unless maybe all parties agree, and there is no one looking for him at this moment.

O'BRIEN: Quickly, last week you said it was about 6:00 on the diplomatic clock. What is it right now?

ROTH: Well, I don't even wear a watch, Miles. But I would say, Hans Blix said it was five minutes to midnight three weeks ago. So I would put it on the clock -- I would say 10:47 p.m.

O'BRIEN: 10:47 p.m., you're on record. Richard Roth at the United Nations, thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com