Return to Transcripts main page

Live From...

Germany, France See 'Eye to Eye'

Aired March 10, 2003 - 14:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: If there is a war, it will be a war to the last infant. Those words reportedly come directly from Saddam Hussein, who is watching as the world lines up and takes sides. At the moment, two major players opposing the U.S., as we've been telling you.
Watching developments in Paris, Jim Bittermann, and in Moscow, Jill Dougherty -- we begin with you, Jim. Possibility of a veto looming on the part of France. We're going to hear from Jacques Chirac shortly. Can you preview that for us? Will he come right out and say it?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't think so, Miles. I don't think we're going to hear him yet commit himself. We are speculating -- have been speculating all weekend that what he's going to say is that he's going to go to New York and cast the vote for France himself in the Security Council. Some of his people were saying this weekend that, in fact, if you're going to have life and death issues you're talking about, that only the top person should be the one who casts the vote. So we expect him to say that.

Now, as far as a veto is concerned, France has been very cagey on this, basically said that they will not commit themselves one way or another. Some very -- for the French president, some at least encouraging news if he is going to cast a veto, came out this weekend. More than 70 percent -- seven out of ten Frenchmen believe that France should cast a veto if it's necessary in order to stop the Anglo- American resolution in the United Nations.

Now, while all of this is going on, Dominique de Villepin, the French foreign minister, has been making a quick trip through Africa, the three undecided countries in Africa -- you heard the Angolan foreign minister there a little earlier -- through Angola and Cameroon and Guinea, basically making a three-fold argument, saying that a war in Iraq would decrease the amount of money that would be available for African countries, would increase the likelihood of terrorism, and that this idea of preventive war that the White House has been talking about could be turned against an African nation if, say for instance, Washington decided it didn't like a particular leader or another.

All of which, we don't know if that's -- those arguments are having any traction in any of those countries. Basically, in the aftermath of his visits, at least to Angola and Cameroon, there were some fairly ambiguous statements by the government officials there. Now for a check on the mood in Moscow, here is Jill Dougherty.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, we have not heard the "veto" word yet from the Russians specifically, but they certainly are making it very clear today with the strongest statement so far, that they will use their veto if they have to -- to kill what is now existing as that resolution.

The word came from Igor Ivanov, the foreign minister of Russia, and he said Russia has not seen a convincing case that military action should be used, that there is no need for a new resolution, that the inspections should continue, and he said that if this resolution is in the form that it is right now, that Russia will vote against it.

Now, that would put it on a collision course with the United States that has warned Russia directly that there could be a political and economic price to be paid for a veto. Also, however, you have to point out that they are not specifically saying that this is something that they will definitely do, and the final word will be up to President Vladimir Putin. He's the man who has to make that decision, and we'll have to wait, I think, until probably the last minute to see exactly where Vladimir Putin is going to come down on this -- back to you.

O'BRIEN: Jill, is it likely Vladimir Putin will be casting the vote, as Jacques Chirac intends to, or has that not been discussed?

DOUGHERTY: Well, they said that they're looking at that proposal to have the heads of state go to New York. We haven't heard that they will, but they are studying that proposal.

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you, Jill, about some of the back-channel diplomacy that is going on with the Russians. I know that the speaker of the parliament there, Mr. Seleznyov, is engaged in some sort of dialogue with Baghdad. Any fruit coming out of that labor?

DOUGHERTY: Well, it was an interesting trip. He went for -- literally for 24 hours. He is the parliamentary speaker. Went to Baghdad, met with Saddam Hussein directly, and he was officially carrying what they described as an oral message, a verbal message to Saddam Hussein.

He said, No. 1, the president -- Iraqi president looked good, seemed in good spirits and also was giving a warning that they would fight very hard if there were any type of aggression from the United States or Britain.

In fact, he quoted him as saying that this will be "a war to the last child." And then also the message from President Putin was essentially Russia's satisfied with how Iraq is complying so far, and that they see no need for military action or a new resolution, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jill. Jim, a final thought for you on that same vein. We get the sense, as we talk about all this diplomacy underway and all these phone calls, that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Jim, can you give us any sense of what's going on behind closed doors in France, with its connections to Iraq, to come up with some kind of peaceful way out of this? BITTERMANN: Well, I'm not so sure that there is anything that France can do as far as Baghdad is concerned, but I do know that there's been an awful lot of coordination between Russia, Germany, and France over exactly how to play the United Nations both throughout the weekend and into the day today.

We heard from Chancellor Schroeder just a bit ago. He was interviewed live on French television a few minutes ago. And basically, we was saying that he and Jacques Chirac see completely eye to eye on the question of how to deal with Iraq.

He was asked point blank if Germany would support a veto from France, and of course, Germany does not have a veto on the Security Council, but it does have a vote. And he said that he thought it would be of no use to talk about it publicly, but he just said, we see eye to eye on how to deal with Iraq.

I think Germany and France are definitely coordinating their positions all the time, practically every day, and Russia is in the equation there as well, because over the weekend there was a long phone conversation between Jacques Chirac and Vladimir Putin. The fact is, there is a lot of diplomatic coordination going on. Whether anyone other than Russia has much leverage with Baghdad, I would say probably not. The French certainly have very little force that they can apply in that direction, as far as I can tell.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jim Bittermann in Paris, thank you very much. Jill Dougherty in Moscow, we appreciate the debrief and the insights from those capitals.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 10, 2003 - 14:11   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: If there is a war, it will be a war to the last infant. Those words reportedly come directly from Saddam Hussein, who is watching as the world lines up and takes sides. At the moment, two major players opposing the U.S., as we've been telling you.
Watching developments in Paris, Jim Bittermann, and in Moscow, Jill Dougherty -- we begin with you, Jim. Possibility of a veto looming on the part of France. We're going to hear from Jacques Chirac shortly. Can you preview that for us? Will he come right out and say it?

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I don't think so, Miles. I don't think we're going to hear him yet commit himself. We are speculating -- have been speculating all weekend that what he's going to say is that he's going to go to New York and cast the vote for France himself in the Security Council. Some of his people were saying this weekend that, in fact, if you're going to have life and death issues you're talking about, that only the top person should be the one who casts the vote. So we expect him to say that.

Now, as far as a veto is concerned, France has been very cagey on this, basically said that they will not commit themselves one way or another. Some very -- for the French president, some at least encouraging news if he is going to cast a veto, came out this weekend. More than 70 percent -- seven out of ten Frenchmen believe that France should cast a veto if it's necessary in order to stop the Anglo- American resolution in the United Nations.

Now, while all of this is going on, Dominique de Villepin, the French foreign minister, has been making a quick trip through Africa, the three undecided countries in Africa -- you heard the Angolan foreign minister there a little earlier -- through Angola and Cameroon and Guinea, basically making a three-fold argument, saying that a war in Iraq would decrease the amount of money that would be available for African countries, would increase the likelihood of terrorism, and that this idea of preventive war that the White House has been talking about could be turned against an African nation if, say for instance, Washington decided it didn't like a particular leader or another.

All of which, we don't know if that's -- those arguments are having any traction in any of those countries. Basically, in the aftermath of his visits, at least to Angola and Cameroon, there were some fairly ambiguous statements by the government officials there. Now for a check on the mood in Moscow, here is Jill Dougherty.

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Well, we have not heard the "veto" word yet from the Russians specifically, but they certainly are making it very clear today with the strongest statement so far, that they will use their veto if they have to -- to kill what is now existing as that resolution.

The word came from Igor Ivanov, the foreign minister of Russia, and he said Russia has not seen a convincing case that military action should be used, that there is no need for a new resolution, that the inspections should continue, and he said that if this resolution is in the form that it is right now, that Russia will vote against it.

Now, that would put it on a collision course with the United States that has warned Russia directly that there could be a political and economic price to be paid for a veto. Also, however, you have to point out that they are not specifically saying that this is something that they will definitely do, and the final word will be up to President Vladimir Putin. He's the man who has to make that decision, and we'll have to wait, I think, until probably the last minute to see exactly where Vladimir Putin is going to come down on this -- back to you.

O'BRIEN: Jill, is it likely Vladimir Putin will be casting the vote, as Jacques Chirac intends to, or has that not been discussed?

DOUGHERTY: Well, they said that they're looking at that proposal to have the heads of state go to New York. We haven't heard that they will, but they are studying that proposal.

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you, Jill, about some of the back-channel diplomacy that is going on with the Russians. I know that the speaker of the parliament there, Mr. Seleznyov, is engaged in some sort of dialogue with Baghdad. Any fruit coming out of that labor?

DOUGHERTY: Well, it was an interesting trip. He went for -- literally for 24 hours. He is the parliamentary speaker. Went to Baghdad, met with Saddam Hussein directly, and he was officially carrying what they described as an oral message, a verbal message to Saddam Hussein.

He said, No. 1, the president -- Iraqi president looked good, seemed in good spirits and also was giving a warning that they would fight very hard if there were any type of aggression from the United States or Britain.

In fact, he quoted him as saying that this will be "a war to the last child." And then also the message from President Putin was essentially Russia's satisfied with how Iraq is complying so far, and that they see no need for military action or a new resolution, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jill. Jim, a final thought for you on that same vein. We get the sense, as we talk about all this diplomacy underway and all these phone calls, that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

Jim, can you give us any sense of what's going on behind closed doors in France, with its connections to Iraq, to come up with some kind of peaceful way out of this? BITTERMANN: Well, I'm not so sure that there is anything that France can do as far as Baghdad is concerned, but I do know that there's been an awful lot of coordination between Russia, Germany, and France over exactly how to play the United Nations both throughout the weekend and into the day today.

We heard from Chancellor Schroeder just a bit ago. He was interviewed live on French television a few minutes ago. And basically, we was saying that he and Jacques Chirac see completely eye to eye on the question of how to deal with Iraq.

He was asked point blank if Germany would support a veto from France, and of course, Germany does not have a veto on the Security Council, but it does have a vote. And he said that he thought it would be of no use to talk about it publicly, but he just said, we see eye to eye on how to deal with Iraq.

I think Germany and France are definitely coordinating their positions all the time, practically every day, and Russia is in the equation there as well, because over the weekend there was a long phone conversation between Jacques Chirac and Vladimir Putin. The fact is, there is a lot of diplomatic coordination going on. Whether anyone other than Russia has much leverage with Baghdad, I would say probably not. The French certainly have very little force that they can apply in that direction, as far as I can tell.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jim Bittermann in Paris, thank you very much. Jill Dougherty in Moscow, we appreciate the debrief and the insights from those capitals.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com