Return to Transcripts main page
Live From...
Iraq May be Involved in Developing New Category of Drone Aircraft
Aired March 11, 2003 - 13:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: This just in to CNN, some additional news about what we told you yesterday, that Iraq might be involved in developing a new category of drone aircraft, which might possibly be used to disseminate chemical or biological weapons.
For more information and details on this, we turn to CNN's Nic Robertson, joining us live from Baghdad.
Nic, what's the latest?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, Iraqi officials call this particular aircraft an RPV, a remotely piloted vehicle. They say it's not a drone. They say that it's been monitored a number of times by the United Nations inspectors here. They say that it was put in a written declaration to the U.N. in the middle of January. That was a semiannual declaration they put forward, they say, to the U.N. They also say that this particular aircraft is not designed for weapons of mass destruction. They say it is designed to carry about a 20 kilogram payload, a payload that they say is of television surveillance equipment. They also say that this particular drone only has -- this particular RPV only has a small engine, they say, about the size of a motor vehicle.
They say, in fact, this particular RPV can only fly about eight kilometer, far short of the 150 kilometer-limit set on these particular aircraft by U.N. limitations.
So Iraqis officials saying too much fuss is being made over this particular RPV. They say it is not capable or designed for breaking resolution 1441.
We've also heard Iraqi officials today, General Hossam Amin, the head of Iraq's National Monitoring Directorate, explain what happened when two U-2 aircraft flew into Iraqi airspace. He said that Iraq did not take any hostile action against these aircraft. When one flew in from Saudi Arabia and one flew in from Kuwait, he says the Iraqi officials contacted the U.N. on their hotline here.
Shortly after that, the U.N. apologized, he said, the U.N. saying they had made a mistake, according to Iraqi officials, and according, again, to Iraqi officials, the U.N. decided to withdraw these two U.N. aircraft.
Again, the Iraqi officials reiterating they did not take any hostile action against the U-2 aircraft and that the u.n. chose to withdraw them. O'BRIEN: Nic, let's give a little background to viewers on this. Most of these U-2 missions have been single-ship missions. That has been the custom, but that is not by any sort of edict, necessarily. The U.N. is willing to give the Iraqis the benefit of the doubt in this one?
ROBERTSON: Difficult to say. We don't have reaction from U.N. officials yet. The reaction we have here in Baghdad is from Iraqi officials, and I asked that specific question, because Iraq, a number of weeks ago, had said that it unilaterally accepted the U.N. statement that Iraq should allow the U-2 aircraft to fly in, and I asked that question of General Hossam Amin, does that limit you -- or are the U.n. limited to a number of aircraft they can fly on any mission? He said the U.N. is limited to one aircraft on any specific mission that the U.N. applies for. He says the U.N. has to give 72 hour's notice, and the U.N. has to fly one mission coming over the Kuwaiti border near Iraq, not as the other flight did today from Saudi Arabia.
We still -- that is the Iraqi view. We still don't have clarification from the U.N. yet -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: I'll have to check my military lexicon, whether a remotely piloted vehicle drone, whether that's anonymous -- leave that aside for just a moment. Did the Iraqis talk about any of the other remotely piloted vehicles they might have in their arsenal, and whether they might have some capability?
ROBERTSON: Well, Iraq has told the U.N. in past declarations that it had tried to develop drone aircraft for use with disbursing chemical and biological agents.
Now, according to those declarations, and according to U.N. Iraq says in 1988, it gave up any idea of trying to disburse agents from drones. The U.N. says that it is monitoring two other types of drones Iraq has, drones, that Iraq says, has a distance limit of 100 kilometers. This new drone has a longer wingspan, apparently, about 7.4 meters. U.N. officials have said perhaps that indicates it can fly a greater distance. Iraqi officials today saying no, it's designed to fly in a small radius with a small payload of 20 kilograms, and they say it is definitely not designed for biological or chemical weapons.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Nic Baghdad, thank you very much.
Amid this swirl of discussion about U-2 overflights, drones, remotely piloted vehicle, whatever you may call them, the White House is busy with its full-court press, continuing to push a vote in the United Nations, possibly by the end of the week by the U.N. Security Council. There was no vote today. We told you about that, of course, but the U.S. and Britain still lack support, they still facing threats of vetoes.
CNN's Dana Bash standing by with the latest, giving us a sense of what the wiggle room is. Has the White House signaled to you at all, Dana, what the outlines of a compromise might be? DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They certainly are signaling that there is some wiggle room, no doubt about it, on both on the language and on the date, that March 17 deadline. But they are also signaling that there isn't very much wiggle room there. They're being cautious, Miles, in what they're saying publicly here about the negotiations, because they are at a very critical time, as everybody from the president on down are talking to various folks at the U.N. Security Council to find out what exactly they can get together that would actually pass at the United Nations.
But one thing that Ari Fleischer just a little while ago said, is that they do want the vote at the U.N. this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: We are still in an important diplomatic phase in New York. The consultations with our allies are ongoing and they are important. The resolution as amended is not set in stone, and the conversations are productive. The president has encouraged this diplomacy to take place. What the president has said is there is room for a little more diplomacy, but not a lot of time to do it. The vote will take place this week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: One thing they are ruling out though, here at the White House, is the whole notion of postponing that March 17th deadline a month. The White House spokesman, Ari Fleischer, who you just heard from, said that is a "nonstarter" as far as the president is concerned.
As for the president himself, he is involved in another -- in a second day of intense telephone diplomacy, making calls to members of the U.N. Security Council. He made a call this morning to the president of Angola. That is an additional swing vote on the Security Council. We're told he will make additional calls this afternoon. And just to underscore how they're trying to show the president is intensely involved in this. Yesterday he made eight phone calls to world leaders. At the White House, they are saying that is the second largest number, second only to October 7th; that is when he made some phone calls telling world leaders he was going to bomb Afghanistan. So intense negotiations going on here.
Miles, I should also note, what they're saying is even if they don't get a vote, even if a pass of this resolution, even if it is vetoed, what they're clearly trying to do is have a symbolic win. It they can get the majority of the votes, that would be something serve very happy about here -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Dana, if a month is too long and March 17th is perhaps the minimum, or -- put it this way, how much of a delay can they accept?
BASH: They're really trying to be careful as to giving a date on that, because, really, a lot of it depends on what they can get together, what they can get agreement on to get the nine votes on that. But really, they are talking about not very much time, perhaps another week at most. But certainly the month, as you said, is a nonstarter there.
At this point, that is exactly what the president and others are trying to do, making the phone calls to try to find that compromise, that magic date that could get through the Security Council.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Dana Bash, at the White House.
Let's head to the north to the United Nations, where we find our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth. He's watching the horse trading there for us. I assume you had a chance to hear Dana, Richard, talking about this deadline, and what is an acceptable deadline. What are the acceptable deadlines you're hearing from other members of the Security Council?
RICHARD ROTH, SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, you talk to the various diplomats around here, and the deadline could be moved, according to one U.N. diplomat, from March 17, it could be moved by as much as 10 days if a compromise is found on the proposed resolution by the U.S., U.K. and Spain, a resolution that says Saddam Hussein has to turn over all weapons of mass destruction or else, and that's based on a March 17 deadline.
However, there is some room, as you noted, some wiggle room, and the British are working with the uncommitted six members of the Security Council to perhaps explore some areas where there might be some agreement, and it all comes down to outstanding issues. You can call it what you want, benchmarks. Some people refer to it, as specific tasks that Iraq would be given by the weapons inspector, led there by Hans Blix, the chief inspector. And then if Iraq passes the tests, there's more time for inspections.
However, the U.S. doesn't want to let this go too long, and the tests for Iraq may resolve around interviewing scientists by the inspectors outside of the country, which they've not been willing to do, munition, turn over anthrax, sarin gas, things like that.
The British ambassador, earlier today, on the question of a deadline:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMB. TO U.N.: We are not setting any particular deadline. We have gone for the exemplary date of 17 March to indicate to the Security Council that time is short. It's up to leaders to decide on the precise date they're prepared to do one thing or the other. But the United Kingdom is in a negotiation, and it's prepared to look at timelines and tests together, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about action in March, don't look beyond March.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: One diplomat opposed to the resolution as it stands now says the U.S. is telling the United Kingdom, regarding any discussions on compromises of specific tests, first round up the nine votes needed, and then we'll talk about whether there's a change in the resolution. Russia, France, China, still remain opposed to the resolution. The Russian ambassador today reiterating his stance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVAROV, RUSSIAN AMB. TO U.N.: Our position is the same. We see no reason whatsoever to interrupt the inspections and any resolution, which contain ultimatums and which contains authorization (ph) for the use of force is not acceptable to us.
And when you read in "The Financial Times" today that Russia is thinking of deploying old Soviet tactic of "no show" during the vote, and that Russia's ambassador would find an excuse to leave the room when he would require to raise hands, please remember my words, that this will not be the case. And there will be a show, and there will be no "no show."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Later today, members of the U.N. community not on the Security Council speak out on Iraq in what's likely to be another two- day session. Angola and Pakistan say it's still important, even if some of these views have been heard before -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Richard Roth at the United Nations, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aircraft>
Aired March 11, 2003 - 13:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: This just in to CNN, some additional news about what we told you yesterday, that Iraq might be involved in developing a new category of drone aircraft, which might possibly be used to disseminate chemical or biological weapons.
For more information and details on this, we turn to CNN's Nic Robertson, joining us live from Baghdad.
Nic, what's the latest?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, Iraqi officials call this particular aircraft an RPV, a remotely piloted vehicle. They say it's not a drone. They say that it's been monitored a number of times by the United Nations inspectors here. They say that it was put in a written declaration to the U.N. in the middle of January. That was a semiannual declaration they put forward, they say, to the U.N. They also say that this particular aircraft is not designed for weapons of mass destruction. They say it is designed to carry about a 20 kilogram payload, a payload that they say is of television surveillance equipment. They also say that this particular drone only has -- this particular RPV only has a small engine, they say, about the size of a motor vehicle.
They say, in fact, this particular RPV can only fly about eight kilometer, far short of the 150 kilometer-limit set on these particular aircraft by U.N. limitations.
So Iraqis officials saying too much fuss is being made over this particular RPV. They say it is not capable or designed for breaking resolution 1441.
We've also heard Iraqi officials today, General Hossam Amin, the head of Iraq's National Monitoring Directorate, explain what happened when two U-2 aircraft flew into Iraqi airspace. He said that Iraq did not take any hostile action against these aircraft. When one flew in from Saudi Arabia and one flew in from Kuwait, he says the Iraqi officials contacted the U.N. on their hotline here.
Shortly after that, the U.N. apologized, he said, the U.N. saying they had made a mistake, according to Iraqi officials, and according, again, to Iraqi officials, the U.N. decided to withdraw these two U.N. aircraft.
Again, the Iraqi officials reiterating they did not take any hostile action against the U-2 aircraft and that the u.n. chose to withdraw them. O'BRIEN: Nic, let's give a little background to viewers on this. Most of these U-2 missions have been single-ship missions. That has been the custom, but that is not by any sort of edict, necessarily. The U.N. is willing to give the Iraqis the benefit of the doubt in this one?
ROBERTSON: Difficult to say. We don't have reaction from U.N. officials yet. The reaction we have here in Baghdad is from Iraqi officials, and I asked that specific question, because Iraq, a number of weeks ago, had said that it unilaterally accepted the U.N. statement that Iraq should allow the U-2 aircraft to fly in, and I asked that question of General Hossam Amin, does that limit you -- or are the U.n. limited to a number of aircraft they can fly on any mission? He said the U.N. is limited to one aircraft on any specific mission that the U.N. applies for. He says the U.N. has to give 72 hour's notice, and the U.N. has to fly one mission coming over the Kuwaiti border near Iraq, not as the other flight did today from Saudi Arabia.
We still -- that is the Iraqi view. We still don't have clarification from the U.N. yet -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: I'll have to check my military lexicon, whether a remotely piloted vehicle drone, whether that's anonymous -- leave that aside for just a moment. Did the Iraqis talk about any of the other remotely piloted vehicles they might have in their arsenal, and whether they might have some capability?
ROBERTSON: Well, Iraq has told the U.N. in past declarations that it had tried to develop drone aircraft for use with disbursing chemical and biological agents.
Now, according to those declarations, and according to U.N. Iraq says in 1988, it gave up any idea of trying to disburse agents from drones. The U.N. says that it is monitoring two other types of drones Iraq has, drones, that Iraq says, has a distance limit of 100 kilometers. This new drone has a longer wingspan, apparently, about 7.4 meters. U.N. officials have said perhaps that indicates it can fly a greater distance. Iraqi officials today saying no, it's designed to fly in a small radius with a small payload of 20 kilograms, and they say it is definitely not designed for biological or chemical weapons.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Nic Baghdad, thank you very much.
Amid this swirl of discussion about U-2 overflights, drones, remotely piloted vehicle, whatever you may call them, the White House is busy with its full-court press, continuing to push a vote in the United Nations, possibly by the end of the week by the U.N. Security Council. There was no vote today. We told you about that, of course, but the U.S. and Britain still lack support, they still facing threats of vetoes.
CNN's Dana Bash standing by with the latest, giving us a sense of what the wiggle room is. Has the White House signaled to you at all, Dana, what the outlines of a compromise might be? DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They certainly are signaling that there is some wiggle room, no doubt about it, on both on the language and on the date, that March 17 deadline. But they are also signaling that there isn't very much wiggle room there. They're being cautious, Miles, in what they're saying publicly here about the negotiations, because they are at a very critical time, as everybody from the president on down are talking to various folks at the U.N. Security Council to find out what exactly they can get together that would actually pass at the United Nations.
But one thing that Ari Fleischer just a little while ago said, is that they do want the vote at the U.N. this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECY.: We are still in an important diplomatic phase in New York. The consultations with our allies are ongoing and they are important. The resolution as amended is not set in stone, and the conversations are productive. The president has encouraged this diplomacy to take place. What the president has said is there is room for a little more diplomacy, but not a lot of time to do it. The vote will take place this week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: One thing they are ruling out though, here at the White House, is the whole notion of postponing that March 17th deadline a month. The White House spokesman, Ari Fleischer, who you just heard from, said that is a "nonstarter" as far as the president is concerned.
As for the president himself, he is involved in another -- in a second day of intense telephone diplomacy, making calls to members of the U.N. Security Council. He made a call this morning to the president of Angola. That is an additional swing vote on the Security Council. We're told he will make additional calls this afternoon. And just to underscore how they're trying to show the president is intensely involved in this. Yesterday he made eight phone calls to world leaders. At the White House, they are saying that is the second largest number, second only to October 7th; that is when he made some phone calls telling world leaders he was going to bomb Afghanistan. So intense negotiations going on here.
Miles, I should also note, what they're saying is even if they don't get a vote, even if a pass of this resolution, even if it is vetoed, what they're clearly trying to do is have a symbolic win. It they can get the majority of the votes, that would be something serve very happy about here -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Dana, if a month is too long and March 17th is perhaps the minimum, or -- put it this way, how much of a delay can they accept?
BASH: They're really trying to be careful as to giving a date on that, because, really, a lot of it depends on what they can get together, what they can get agreement on to get the nine votes on that. But really, they are talking about not very much time, perhaps another week at most. But certainly the month, as you said, is a nonstarter there.
At this point, that is exactly what the president and others are trying to do, making the phone calls to try to find that compromise, that magic date that could get through the Security Council.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Dana Bash, at the White House.
Let's head to the north to the United Nations, where we find our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth. He's watching the horse trading there for us. I assume you had a chance to hear Dana, Richard, talking about this deadline, and what is an acceptable deadline. What are the acceptable deadlines you're hearing from other members of the Security Council?
RICHARD ROTH, SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, you talk to the various diplomats around here, and the deadline could be moved, according to one U.N. diplomat, from March 17, it could be moved by as much as 10 days if a compromise is found on the proposed resolution by the U.S., U.K. and Spain, a resolution that says Saddam Hussein has to turn over all weapons of mass destruction or else, and that's based on a March 17 deadline.
However, there is some room, as you noted, some wiggle room, and the British are working with the uncommitted six members of the Security Council to perhaps explore some areas where there might be some agreement, and it all comes down to outstanding issues. You can call it what you want, benchmarks. Some people refer to it, as specific tasks that Iraq would be given by the weapons inspector, led there by Hans Blix, the chief inspector. And then if Iraq passes the tests, there's more time for inspections.
However, the U.S. doesn't want to let this go too long, and the tests for Iraq may resolve around interviewing scientists by the inspectors outside of the country, which they've not been willing to do, munition, turn over anthrax, sarin gas, things like that.
The British ambassador, earlier today, on the question of a deadline:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY GREENSTOCK, BRITISH AMB. TO U.N.: We are not setting any particular deadline. We have gone for the exemplary date of 17 March to indicate to the Security Council that time is short. It's up to leaders to decide on the precise date they're prepared to do one thing or the other. But the United Kingdom is in a negotiation, and it's prepared to look at timelines and tests together, but I'm pretty sure we're talking about action in March, don't look beyond March.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: One diplomat opposed to the resolution as it stands now says the U.S. is telling the United Kingdom, regarding any discussions on compromises of specific tests, first round up the nine votes needed, and then we'll talk about whether there's a change in the resolution. Russia, France, China, still remain opposed to the resolution. The Russian ambassador today reiterating his stance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVAROV, RUSSIAN AMB. TO U.N.: Our position is the same. We see no reason whatsoever to interrupt the inspections and any resolution, which contain ultimatums and which contains authorization (ph) for the use of force is not acceptable to us.
And when you read in "The Financial Times" today that Russia is thinking of deploying old Soviet tactic of "no show" during the vote, and that Russia's ambassador would find an excuse to leave the room when he would require to raise hands, please remember my words, that this will not be the case. And there will be a show, and there will be no "no show."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Later today, members of the U.N. community not on the Security Council speak out on Iraq in what's likely to be another two- day session. Angola and Pakistan say it's still important, even if some of these views have been heard before -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: CNN's Richard Roth at the United Nations, thank you very much.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aircraft>
