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U.S., U.K. Roll Out Road Map Idea

Aired March 14, 2003 - 14:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Going the extra mile on the diplomatic front and urging others to seize the moment, a lot is happening at the White House. We want to get right to it with our Dana Bash -- Dana, hello.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn. Well, President Bush has been working the phones all week long trying desperately to get the majority of the votes at the U.N. Security Council to pass a second resolution, giving Iraq a deadline, effectively allowing for military action. That effort has not gone very well. So they are, this weekend, the president along with his colleagues, world leaders who are cosponsors of the resolution will meet in the Azore islands. He will meet with the British prime minister, Tony Blair, along with the prime minister of Spain, Jose Maria Aznar, and, of course, they'll be joined by their host, the prime minister of Portugal.

So what -- we are told that they are going to do is try to kind of take stock of where they are, what is it that they believe that some of the swing votes, swing nations at the Security Council want, and is there a possibility that there would be some kind of compromise. So they are going to talk about that, and try to have one last effort, one last ditch of diplomacy through the United Nations. Now, the president's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, explained what the White House position is earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It is time to come to a conclusion that says to Saddam Hussein, it is time for you to disarm or be disarmed. It is time for you to finally comply with Resolution 1441, which was one final chance to disarm. Resolution 1441 wasn't one final chance to be inspected, or one final chance to make a little bit of progress. It was one final chance to disarm. And they will chart a way forward, but the moment of truth is coming here, and it's time for the cosponsors to get together and discuss it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Meanwhile, with all of this intense discussion and diplomacy on Iraq, the president had a surprise announcement in the Rose Garden this morning on a different subject, but related. The subject is peace in the Middle East. Peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The president this morning saying that he will support the so-called road map to peace, a series of steps that will end up with a Palestinian state, and they hope peace between the two nations that have fought for so long. The president saying that what has precipitated this is the appointment of a new Palestinian prime minister. The White House has made clear that they don't want to deal with Yasser Arafat. They also were putting this on hold until after the Israeli elections continued. But the president made his decision to go forward on this, conditional to the confirmation of that Palestinian prime minister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The new Palestinian prime minister must hold a position of real authority. We expect that such a Palestinian prime minister will be confirmed soon. Immediately upon confirmation, the road map for peace will be given to the Palestinians and Israelis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, the president's focus is not only on the Palestinians. He also said that the Israelis must stop any -- all of their settlement activity, and here at the White House, I should say that the official line is that there is no connection between the announcement this morning and what's going on in Iraq, but some of the president's allies around the world, including European allies, and Arab allies have been pressuring the White House to do something, to take a step forward, to make it a priority, dealing with the Mideast process, especially when he's trying to deal with Iraq. So that's what you saw this morning.

KAGAN: It's been a very interesting day to say the least. Dana Bash at the White House. Want to get more on that European perspective now, and bring in Robin Oakley, our senior European political correspondent bringing us the latest from Europe on what is taking place not just this weekend, but this latest move with the announcement of this Middle East peace proposal. Robin, hello.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn. And Tony Blair certainly greeted these new proposals for the Middle East with some enthusiasm in Downing Street. Notably, he invited in a number of Arab journalists to hear, and he said that they had to accept, the U.S. and the U.K., the obligation of even- handedness. They needed to demonstrate that they were just as concerned with finding peace for the Palestinians and the Israelis as they were with getting rid of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. And Tony Blair has been under a lot of pressure from his own party at home, because they have been saying to him, look if you are such a buddy of George Bush's, if you have got such influence with him as you say by backing him on Iraq, why haven't you been able to press him to do more about the Middle East?

So this was good news for Tony Blair, both this and the summit in the Azores with George Bush coming to meet with Tony Blair and Jose Maria Aznar, the Spanish prime minister -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, Robin, let's talk a little bit more about what is going to happen this weekend with that summit. Why is that so important for Tony Blair politically at home? OAKLEY: Well, it's important for him because it will show him not to be the only supporter of George Bush isolated in Europe, because you'll have Jose Maria Aznar there, you will have the Portuguese prime minister, who is hosting the meeting, you will have the prime minister of Bulgaria, who is also backing the U.N. Security Council resolution.

So it will help to lessen the impression that Tony Blair is the only guy in Europe going along with George Bush. I think it's also a demonstration that George Bush is willing to go to the last inch of the final mile to help to provide political cover for Tony Blair, who needs, more than anybody else, that second U.N. Security Council -- resolution to go through. If Tony Blair doesn't get that, he is going to lose, probably, two members of his cabinet. If he goes to war without the sanction of the U.N. Security Council, he's going to have public opinion in Britain against him. He is going to face a massive rebellion from his own MPs. So if they can, at this meeting, put together something which just finally, at the end of the day, rescues the U.N. Security Council resolution, and brings across the six key swing voters, gives them that nine-vote moral majority that they're after, then it will do Tony Blair an awful lot of good. But even the effort being expended here is going to help to bring across some of his own MPs, who have their doubts about Tony Blair's policy -- Daryn.

KAGAN: But at this point, basically -- has the train left the station? Is there any way that Tony Blair and Britain can separate itself from the United States, if it decides, in fact, not to go for that second vote, in terms of not going along militarily?

OAKLEY: No, I think, Daryn -- most people now accept that it would be politically impossible for Tony Blair to pull back. Even if he doesn't get that second U.N. Security Council resolution, the die is cast. He has to go in with George Bush in terms of military action. He's committed a third of Britain's forces already out there in the Gulf. He would look ridiculous if he brought them home without firing a shot. He's going to have to take the biggest gamble of his political life if he doesn't get the cover of that resolution and go along with George Bush anyway. I think both his opponents and his friends accept that -- Daryn.

KAGAN: His political life on the line. Robin Oakley from Europe. Thank you for your perspective -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Daryn, President Bush's remarks on the stalled Palestinian-Israeli peace plan being met with cautious optimism in the Middle East. Both sides basically say, nothing new.

CNN Jerusalem Bureau Chief Mike Hanna joining us live with more reaction -- Mike.

MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Miles, the idea of the road map has been around for a long period of time, but its actual implementation has been delayed for a number of reasons, among them elections in Israel and the formation of a new Israel government. But both sides have welcomed the implementation, or news that the road map is to be implemented. Israelis say that they see eye to eye with President Bush on this issue, hoping that the introduction now to this (ph) road map will lead to a cessation in Palestinian violence.

Palestinians, a tad more cautious. Their concern is that the road map must be implemented as a final document, and implemented immediately. They do not want to see another scenario where suggestions are put on the table that are then debated by all parties before actually being implemented.

But still, Palestinian leaders have been asking for months for the implementation of this road map, seeing it as the only way, in their view, to end ongoing Israeli aggression. So all parties welcoming the implementation of the road map. Its preconditions, though, still to be met, and that is confirmation of the Palestinian prime minister with real authority and power -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Mike, how much suspicion is there about the timing of all this?

HANNA: Well, there is a great deal of suspicion, but Palestinians had been deeply concerned that the concentration on Iraq left them vulnerable, they believe, particularly to ongoing Israeli military action that they argued was being taken because the world's attention was directed at Iraq and away from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But Prime Minister Blair himself made clear in a news conference earlier on this evening that there is linkage between whatever is happening in Iraq and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Prime Minister Blair making quite clear that he wanted to be seen to be even-handed, as is the United States wants to be seen to be even- handed in dealing with the crises, the various crises in the Middle East, the situation in Iraq and possible regime change there, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Both the U.S. and Britain very sensitive to criticism that they had dropped the whole Palestinian-Israeli situation to concentrate on the Iraqi one, and by announcing it at this particular time, both parties, U.S. and Britain, attempting to make clear that the Palestinian-Israeli dispute is still central to their attention and their concern -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Mike Hanna in Jerusalem, thank you very much.

Linkage, even-handedness: important words after so many stalled Palestinian-Israeli summits and peace attempts. Why are President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair talking about Mideast peace and that road map today?

CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider has some thoughts on all this. Bill -- first of all, let's talk about this linkage issue. It's something that I think they're more sensitive to in Europe than we are here.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Linkage. Linkage, in a sense, sweetens the pot because it says if you support war with Iraq, you'll get Middle East peace progress towards the Middle East peace deal. That is what Europeans want. They have been arguing, along with the Muslim world for some time, that the real problem in the Middle East isn't primarily Saddam Hussein. It's also the lack of visible progress on a Middle East peace deal. This makes that linked to the war in Iraq, and that's what a lot of Europeans and Muslims want.

O'BRIEN: What about the timing right now, though, Bill. Depending on who you ask, we're certainly in the latter hours of diplomacy here. Is it too late to be bringing up Middle East peace at this juncture?

SCHNEIDER: Well, it's getting very close, and the U.N. -- the Security Council may have an opportunity to vote on that resolution. We'll see if it makes a difference. But certainly, we're poised to begin a war with Iraq. I think expanding the goals of that war and creating a road map towards peace in the Middle East certainly makes the war about something a lot more than simply regime change in Iraq. So is it too late? I don't think it's too late. I'm not sure it will turn the Security Council around, though. But if the war goes on, I think it's going to cause a lot of the world to think again about what's at stake in this war.

O'BRIEN: Now, Ari Fleischer had his briefing at the White House said that this was not at all linked to anything to do with Iraq. It was simply the fact that Yasser Arafat had finally decided to announce a prime minister.

SCHNEIDER: Oh, please. This is, of course, linked with the war in Iraq. The only party -- the one party that's likely to be a little skeptical of all this is, frankly, Israel. Mike Hanna just said that the Israelis officially are welcoming this. But when I was in Israel in January, the Israelis were very cautious about the idea of a road map. In fact, they said, there is no road map. The quartet that's supposed to produce the road map, the European Union, Russia, the United Nations, and the United States, they said that quartet is meaningless.

These Israelis weren't enthusiastic about a road map because they didn't want to go where the road map would take them, which was, in the end, towards a two-state settlement, including a Palestinian state.

Ariel Sharon is on record favoring a Palestinian state, but he just formed a government with parties that oppose the idea of a Palestinian state. I'm not sure this is welcome news for Prime Minister Sharon.

O'BRIEN: And land for peace suddenly back in play, right?

SCHNEIDER: That's exactly right. I think the United States has been very careful not to talk about a road map until now because it didn't want to create anxiety in Israel. We, the United States, want Israel to stand aside, let the war with Iraq go on. We promised Israel we would protect them from any potential attacks from Iraq, and they did not have to get involved. Because if they got involved, the entire Middle East might become inflamed. Now, I think the Israelis are the ones who are very nervous.

O'BRIEN: Bill Schneider, thanks for the perspective.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 14, 2003 - 14:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Going the extra mile on the diplomatic front and urging others to seize the moment, a lot is happening at the White House. We want to get right to it with our Dana Bash -- Dana, hello.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn. Well, President Bush has been working the phones all week long trying desperately to get the majority of the votes at the U.N. Security Council to pass a second resolution, giving Iraq a deadline, effectively allowing for military action. That effort has not gone very well. So they are, this weekend, the president along with his colleagues, world leaders who are cosponsors of the resolution will meet in the Azore islands. He will meet with the British prime minister, Tony Blair, along with the prime minister of Spain, Jose Maria Aznar, and, of course, they'll be joined by their host, the prime minister of Portugal.

So what -- we are told that they are going to do is try to kind of take stock of where they are, what is it that they believe that some of the swing votes, swing nations at the Security Council want, and is there a possibility that there would be some kind of compromise. So they are going to talk about that, and try to have one last effort, one last ditch of diplomacy through the United Nations. Now, the president's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, explained what the White House position is earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It is time to come to a conclusion that says to Saddam Hussein, it is time for you to disarm or be disarmed. It is time for you to finally comply with Resolution 1441, which was one final chance to disarm. Resolution 1441 wasn't one final chance to be inspected, or one final chance to make a little bit of progress. It was one final chance to disarm. And they will chart a way forward, but the moment of truth is coming here, and it's time for the cosponsors to get together and discuss it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Meanwhile, with all of this intense discussion and diplomacy on Iraq, the president had a surprise announcement in the Rose Garden this morning on a different subject, but related. The subject is peace in the Middle East. Peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The president this morning saying that he will support the so-called road map to peace, a series of steps that will end up with a Palestinian state, and they hope peace between the two nations that have fought for so long. The president saying that what has precipitated this is the appointment of a new Palestinian prime minister. The White House has made clear that they don't want to deal with Yasser Arafat. They also were putting this on hold until after the Israeli elections continued. But the president made his decision to go forward on this, conditional to the confirmation of that Palestinian prime minister.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The new Palestinian prime minister must hold a position of real authority. We expect that such a Palestinian prime minister will be confirmed soon. Immediately upon confirmation, the road map for peace will be given to the Palestinians and Israelis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, the president's focus is not only on the Palestinians. He also said that the Israelis must stop any -- all of their settlement activity, and here at the White House, I should say that the official line is that there is no connection between the announcement this morning and what's going on in Iraq, but some of the president's allies around the world, including European allies, and Arab allies have been pressuring the White House to do something, to take a step forward, to make it a priority, dealing with the Mideast process, especially when he's trying to deal with Iraq. So that's what you saw this morning.

KAGAN: It's been a very interesting day to say the least. Dana Bash at the White House. Want to get more on that European perspective now, and bring in Robin Oakley, our senior European political correspondent bringing us the latest from Europe on what is taking place not just this weekend, but this latest move with the announcement of this Middle East peace proposal. Robin, hello.

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn. And Tony Blair certainly greeted these new proposals for the Middle East with some enthusiasm in Downing Street. Notably, he invited in a number of Arab journalists to hear, and he said that they had to accept, the U.S. and the U.K., the obligation of even- handedness. They needed to demonstrate that they were just as concerned with finding peace for the Palestinians and the Israelis as they were with getting rid of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. And Tony Blair has been under a lot of pressure from his own party at home, because they have been saying to him, look if you are such a buddy of George Bush's, if you have got such influence with him as you say by backing him on Iraq, why haven't you been able to press him to do more about the Middle East?

So this was good news for Tony Blair, both this and the summit in the Azores with George Bush coming to meet with Tony Blair and Jose Maria Aznar, the Spanish prime minister -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes, Robin, let's talk a little bit more about what is going to happen this weekend with that summit. Why is that so important for Tony Blair politically at home? OAKLEY: Well, it's important for him because it will show him not to be the only supporter of George Bush isolated in Europe, because you'll have Jose Maria Aznar there, you will have the Portuguese prime minister, who is hosting the meeting, you will have the prime minister of Bulgaria, who is also backing the U.N. Security Council resolution.

So it will help to lessen the impression that Tony Blair is the only guy in Europe going along with George Bush. I think it's also a demonstration that George Bush is willing to go to the last inch of the final mile to help to provide political cover for Tony Blair, who needs, more than anybody else, that second U.N. Security Council -- resolution to go through. If Tony Blair doesn't get that, he is going to lose, probably, two members of his cabinet. If he goes to war without the sanction of the U.N. Security Council, he's going to have public opinion in Britain against him. He is going to face a massive rebellion from his own MPs. So if they can, at this meeting, put together something which just finally, at the end of the day, rescues the U.N. Security Council resolution, and brings across the six key swing voters, gives them that nine-vote moral majority that they're after, then it will do Tony Blair an awful lot of good. But even the effort being expended here is going to help to bring across some of his own MPs, who have their doubts about Tony Blair's policy -- Daryn.

KAGAN: But at this point, basically -- has the train left the station? Is there any way that Tony Blair and Britain can separate itself from the United States, if it decides, in fact, not to go for that second vote, in terms of not going along militarily?

OAKLEY: No, I think, Daryn -- most people now accept that it would be politically impossible for Tony Blair to pull back. Even if he doesn't get that second U.N. Security Council resolution, the die is cast. He has to go in with George Bush in terms of military action. He's committed a third of Britain's forces already out there in the Gulf. He would look ridiculous if he brought them home without firing a shot. He's going to have to take the biggest gamble of his political life if he doesn't get the cover of that resolution and go along with George Bush anyway. I think both his opponents and his friends accept that -- Daryn.

KAGAN: His political life on the line. Robin Oakley from Europe. Thank you for your perspective -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Daryn, President Bush's remarks on the stalled Palestinian-Israeli peace plan being met with cautious optimism in the Middle East. Both sides basically say, nothing new.

CNN Jerusalem Bureau Chief Mike Hanna joining us live with more reaction -- Mike.

MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Miles, the idea of the road map has been around for a long period of time, but its actual implementation has been delayed for a number of reasons, among them elections in Israel and the formation of a new Israel government. But both sides have welcomed the implementation, or news that the road map is to be implemented. Israelis say that they see eye to eye with President Bush on this issue, hoping that the introduction now to this (ph) road map will lead to a cessation in Palestinian violence.

Palestinians, a tad more cautious. Their concern is that the road map must be implemented as a final document, and implemented immediately. They do not want to see another scenario where suggestions are put on the table that are then debated by all parties before actually being implemented.

But still, Palestinian leaders have been asking for months for the implementation of this road map, seeing it as the only way, in their view, to end ongoing Israeli aggression. So all parties welcoming the implementation of the road map. Its preconditions, though, still to be met, and that is confirmation of the Palestinian prime minister with real authority and power -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Mike, how much suspicion is there about the timing of all this?

HANNA: Well, there is a great deal of suspicion, but Palestinians had been deeply concerned that the concentration on Iraq left them vulnerable, they believe, particularly to ongoing Israeli military action that they argued was being taken because the world's attention was directed at Iraq and away from the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But Prime Minister Blair himself made clear in a news conference earlier on this evening that there is linkage between whatever is happening in Iraq and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Prime Minister Blair making quite clear that he wanted to be seen to be even-handed, as is the United States wants to be seen to be even- handed in dealing with the crises, the various crises in the Middle East, the situation in Iraq and possible regime change there, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Both the U.S. and Britain very sensitive to criticism that they had dropped the whole Palestinian-Israeli situation to concentrate on the Iraqi one, and by announcing it at this particular time, both parties, U.S. and Britain, attempting to make clear that the Palestinian-Israeli dispute is still central to their attention and their concern -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Mike Hanna in Jerusalem, thank you very much.

Linkage, even-handedness: important words after so many stalled Palestinian-Israeli summits and peace attempts. Why are President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair talking about Mideast peace and that road map today?

CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider has some thoughts on all this. Bill -- first of all, let's talk about this linkage issue. It's something that I think they're more sensitive to in Europe than we are here.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Linkage. Linkage, in a sense, sweetens the pot because it says if you support war with Iraq, you'll get Middle East peace progress towards the Middle East peace deal. That is what Europeans want. They have been arguing, along with the Muslim world for some time, that the real problem in the Middle East isn't primarily Saddam Hussein. It's also the lack of visible progress on a Middle East peace deal. This makes that linked to the war in Iraq, and that's what a lot of Europeans and Muslims want.

O'BRIEN: What about the timing right now, though, Bill. Depending on who you ask, we're certainly in the latter hours of diplomacy here. Is it too late to be bringing up Middle East peace at this juncture?

SCHNEIDER: Well, it's getting very close, and the U.N. -- the Security Council may have an opportunity to vote on that resolution. We'll see if it makes a difference. But certainly, we're poised to begin a war with Iraq. I think expanding the goals of that war and creating a road map towards peace in the Middle East certainly makes the war about something a lot more than simply regime change in Iraq. So is it too late? I don't think it's too late. I'm not sure it will turn the Security Council around, though. But if the war goes on, I think it's going to cause a lot of the world to think again about what's at stake in this war.

O'BRIEN: Now, Ari Fleischer had his briefing at the White House said that this was not at all linked to anything to do with Iraq. It was simply the fact that Yasser Arafat had finally decided to announce a prime minister.

SCHNEIDER: Oh, please. This is, of course, linked with the war in Iraq. The only party -- the one party that's likely to be a little skeptical of all this is, frankly, Israel. Mike Hanna just said that the Israelis officially are welcoming this. But when I was in Israel in January, the Israelis were very cautious about the idea of a road map. In fact, they said, there is no road map. The quartet that's supposed to produce the road map, the European Union, Russia, the United Nations, and the United States, they said that quartet is meaningless.

These Israelis weren't enthusiastic about a road map because they didn't want to go where the road map would take them, which was, in the end, towards a two-state settlement, including a Palestinian state.

Ariel Sharon is on record favoring a Palestinian state, but he just formed a government with parties that oppose the idea of a Palestinian state. I'm not sure this is welcome news for Prime Minister Sharon.

O'BRIEN: And land for peace suddenly back in play, right?

SCHNEIDER: That's exactly right. I think the United States has been very careful not to talk about a road map until now because it didn't want to create anxiety in Israel. We, the United States, want Israel to stand aside, let the war with Iraq go on. We promised Israel we would protect them from any potential attacks from Iraq, and they did not have to get involved. Because if they got involved, the entire Middle East might become inflamed. Now, I think the Israelis are the ones who are very nervous.

O'BRIEN: Bill Schneider, thanks for the perspective.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com