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Look at Missiles That Would be Used in War

Aired March 18, 2003 - 14:45   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The hornet's nest, in pilot's jargon. Intelligence sources believe Saddam Hussein has pulled most of his air defenses back to Baghdad, the surface-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft guns, heavy machine guns, radar installations.
So how could American pilots get through or around such a veil of fire over the Iraqi capital? CNN's military analyst, Air Force Major General Don Sheppard, retire, joining us to talk a little bit about this. General Shepperd, good to have you with us.

I should tell folks what we're going to be talking about here is a non-stealth tactic. There is a tactic that involves the use of the F-117 or the B-2, which are relatively invisible to radar. What we're about to talk about is more conventional. And, General Sheppard, I'm going to just put the map in motion, we'll just start talking about it right away as we put this map in motion, give people a sense.

As we move down to Iraq, what we're depicting is a battery of surface-to-air missiles, these are SA-2s. Tell us about those, first of all.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPARD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, it's Russian-made SA-2, the same ones that we fought in Vietnam, although much improved. They have both radar and optical capability. We see them guideline SAM transporters, here. They've got some other ways.

It's a high-altitude missile, it's a danger to the U-2 and any aircraft that's flying at high altitude. So it's a strategic air defense missile, very dangerous.

I had them launched at me in Vietnam -- North Vietnam. It's a dangerous, dangerous missile and something that we use -- that we really want to get out of the way early in this fight here.

O'BRIEN: Pretty long range, too, 27 miles. Let's put this map in motion and we'll give you a sense. The SA-2s are nothing if they're not connected to a fairly sophisticated radar installation. Of course, they don't have to be right next to each other as depicted them here.

SHEPPARD: Right. Now this is a Fan Song radar, it can also be connected to Flat Face radars. These are all names that the military uses. But the idea is that this radar has to be on to acquire the target. So the idea is you want it on and then you're going to jam this radar, as we'll show later. And then further, we are also going to fire anti-radiation missiles at it. This is all done by both Air Force and Navy pilots.

O'BRIEN: All right. So let's go to our next scene here. There's the radar installation we're just showing you. And above it is the EA-6B Prowler. This one of many aircraft in the U.S. inventory. This happens to be a carrier-based Navy aircraft that does what, as we take a look at some of its specifics here on the screen.

SHEPPARD: It's flown by Navy and Air Force combined crews and what it does is it jams radar sights. Early warning radars, missile acquisition radars, missile-tracking radars, it does a very, very good job.

And the idea is to confuse the SAM operator so he can't locate the target on his screen and also force him to keep his radar on so he has to look hard for targets all the while making him vulnerable to harming -- homing anti-radiation missiles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's take a look at that as we move to the next scene as he flies through. There's your radar operator. Either he sees snow on his screen or in some cases multiple false targets. And that would do quite a number, wouldn't it?

SHEPPARD: It would indeed. First of all, he had a single target he could lock on to and now he has a whole bunch of moving targets. He has to decide which one to concentrate on, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) confusion, making him keep his radar on. It's difficult for the surface-to-air missile operator to sort through this.

O'BRIEN: All right. And in comes the calvary. Then we see multiple ships coming in with those with multiple targets there, the radar site confused. Multiple ships can come in. What we're depicting here, F-15s, F-18s, there could be F-14s. It depends on what sort of mix that the command structure wants to put in there.

But if in fact they are tracked by radar through all of this effort to jam it, and I guess that sure is a distinct possibility, we have some counter measures. We're depicting them here. There's chaff and flares. Tell us about those.

SHEPPARD: Yes, we've seen a F-18 here. he avoids his on board jamming pods in case the EA-6 jammer isn't able to take the site down. And basically he's dumping chaff that also confuses the radar operator. Makes it hard and difficult for him. He's dumping flares in case shoulder-fired missiles are fired at him. But it also works air- to-air missiles as well.

O'BRIEN: All right. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) give you specifics on the F-18 there. Let's move this scene along and give you a sense of what happens. After he has spoofed out that radar site, the SA-2 presumably goes off harmlessly. What is fired is what is called a HARM missile, and basically what it does is it homes in on that radar signal. Doesn't it?

SHEPPARD: Indeed. It's called a homing anti-radiation missile. It homes on the radar signal as long as it's on. If the radar signal is turned off it attempts to remember the coordinates and home in on those coordinates. So the SAM operator has a very difficult time on his hands dealing with all this.

O'BRIEN: All right. And the key is air superiority. I read something very interesting. Since 1939, the Nazi invasion of Poland, no one has won a battle without it, no one has lost a battle with it.

SHEPPARD: It's an absolute must to protect our troops. You have to have air superiority is the first thing. We'll attack the air defense and the fixed missile sites. We'll deal with the mobile sites later on. But it's absolutely essential. And it's a combined Air Force and Navy effort -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Major General Don Shepperd. Always a pleasure. We'll see you soon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired March 18, 2003 - 14:45   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The hornet's nest, in pilot's jargon. Intelligence sources believe Saddam Hussein has pulled most of his air defenses back to Baghdad, the surface-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft guns, heavy machine guns, radar installations.
So how could American pilots get through or around such a veil of fire over the Iraqi capital? CNN's military analyst, Air Force Major General Don Sheppard, retire, joining us to talk a little bit about this. General Shepperd, good to have you with us.

I should tell folks what we're going to be talking about here is a non-stealth tactic. There is a tactic that involves the use of the F-117 or the B-2, which are relatively invisible to radar. What we're about to talk about is more conventional. And, General Sheppard, I'm going to just put the map in motion, we'll just start talking about it right away as we put this map in motion, give people a sense.

As we move down to Iraq, what we're depicting is a battery of surface-to-air missiles, these are SA-2s. Tell us about those, first of all.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPARD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, it's Russian-made SA-2, the same ones that we fought in Vietnam, although much improved. They have both radar and optical capability. We see them guideline SAM transporters, here. They've got some other ways.

It's a high-altitude missile, it's a danger to the U-2 and any aircraft that's flying at high altitude. So it's a strategic air defense missile, very dangerous.

I had them launched at me in Vietnam -- North Vietnam. It's a dangerous, dangerous missile and something that we use -- that we really want to get out of the way early in this fight here.

O'BRIEN: Pretty long range, too, 27 miles. Let's put this map in motion and we'll give you a sense. The SA-2s are nothing if they're not connected to a fairly sophisticated radar installation. Of course, they don't have to be right next to each other as depicted them here.

SHEPPARD: Right. Now this is a Fan Song radar, it can also be connected to Flat Face radars. These are all names that the military uses. But the idea is that this radar has to be on to acquire the target. So the idea is you want it on and then you're going to jam this radar, as we'll show later. And then further, we are also going to fire anti-radiation missiles at it. This is all done by both Air Force and Navy pilots.

O'BRIEN: All right. So let's go to our next scene here. There's the radar installation we're just showing you. And above it is the EA-6B Prowler. This one of many aircraft in the U.S. inventory. This happens to be a carrier-based Navy aircraft that does what, as we take a look at some of its specifics here on the screen.

SHEPPARD: It's flown by Navy and Air Force combined crews and what it does is it jams radar sights. Early warning radars, missile acquisition radars, missile-tracking radars, it does a very, very good job.

And the idea is to confuse the SAM operator so he can't locate the target on his screen and also force him to keep his radar on so he has to look hard for targets all the while making him vulnerable to harming -- homing anti-radiation missiles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's take a look at that as we move to the next scene as he flies through. There's your radar operator. Either he sees snow on his screen or in some cases multiple false targets. And that would do quite a number, wouldn't it?

SHEPPARD: It would indeed. First of all, he had a single target he could lock on to and now he has a whole bunch of moving targets. He has to decide which one to concentrate on, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) confusion, making him keep his radar on. It's difficult for the surface-to-air missile operator to sort through this.

O'BRIEN: All right. And in comes the calvary. Then we see multiple ships coming in with those with multiple targets there, the radar site confused. Multiple ships can come in. What we're depicting here, F-15s, F-18s, there could be F-14s. It depends on what sort of mix that the command structure wants to put in there.

But if in fact they are tracked by radar through all of this effort to jam it, and I guess that sure is a distinct possibility, we have some counter measures. We're depicting them here. There's chaff and flares. Tell us about those.

SHEPPARD: Yes, we've seen a F-18 here. he avoids his on board jamming pods in case the EA-6 jammer isn't able to take the site down. And basically he's dumping chaff that also confuses the radar operator. Makes it hard and difficult for him. He's dumping flares in case shoulder-fired missiles are fired at him. But it also works air- to-air missiles as well.

O'BRIEN: All right. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) give you specifics on the F-18 there. Let's move this scene along and give you a sense of what happens. After he has spoofed out that radar site, the SA-2 presumably goes off harmlessly. What is fired is what is called a HARM missile, and basically what it does is it homes in on that radar signal. Doesn't it?

SHEPPARD: Indeed. It's called a homing anti-radiation missile. It homes on the radar signal as long as it's on. If the radar signal is turned off it attempts to remember the coordinates and home in on those coordinates. So the SAM operator has a very difficult time on his hands dealing with all this.

O'BRIEN: All right. And the key is air superiority. I read something very interesting. Since 1939, the Nazi invasion of Poland, no one has won a battle without it, no one has lost a battle with it.

SHEPPARD: It's an absolute must to protect our troops. You have to have air superiority is the first thing. We'll attack the air defense and the fixed missile sites. We'll deal with the mobile sites later on. But it's absolutely essential. And it's a combined Air Force and Navy effort -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Major General Don Shepperd. Always a pleasure. We'll see you soon.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com